Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Your testers can be remote, assuming you get "live wires"  who will dedicate 
time to testing/ communications

I always invite them to SLACK asap so they feel they can contact me any time 
and then we jump into appear.in  video rooms.

I just exited 2 hours of meetings with one young mom, her daughter and two teen 
agers.

Obvious things like "Will we be able to still listen to the audio if we do 
other stuff on our phone?" (doable on iOS, not on android?)

and "if we return to the same audio from the history, can we start up where we 
left off? (easy one, current time of mobile player is easily save to the 
""Journal")

duh

or  the hard ones:

"I think your openings screen rows (links to content) are too big… can we make 
the smaller young users won't want to scroll all over the place." (why hard? 
stack holders fascination prioritizing graphics over UX efficiency, those are 
the hard ones)

and yes, there is no substitute for face-to-face… but you can do that on line 
so easily now.

testing our app: sure: go here:

g...@github.com:Himalayan-Academy/Siva-Siva-App.git


pull the nightly branch.

if you "don't do git" then send me your UDID (off list)

OR if you are on android then super easy: open this page on your phone and 
click the link to download the PKG

http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/looklisten/apps/sivasiva/

Though LC performance on Android is quite bad on some devices. I have some man 
with a Blackberry running 3 GB ram, with some super process and plenty of HD 
space. but he complains it is slow… but my more "under powered" Nexus 5 Runs 
the app quite well.  

I am also interested in your Augmented Earth project… but I can't get past the 
log in screen…


 

On 7/7/17, 2:50 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

I am impressed by your circle of beta testers!

I have plenty of friends and family that would help, but they are spread 
around the country. 

Point taken about folks not communicating so well. It seems like direct 
observation of them using it could help.

The way my brain works, I am decent at figuring out clever solutions, but 
terrible at realizing what others will find intuitive. It looks like I will 
need to put in extra effort to cultivate my testers.

My plan for very slow early growth is partly to compensate for this issue. 
It needs to be a near flawless user experience before I start promoting.

I can be a beta tester for you, if that would help. I don't resemble your 
target market in the least, and my UI preferences are odd, but I might have 
some good ideas.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Division by Zero Error

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I often find that I have to deal with a division by zero error message in 
plotting functions, solving equation etc. Are there methods or techniques used 
to programmatically handle or work-around a possible division by zero? e.g. If 
I want to evaluate y= 1/(x-3), what can I do to deal with a possible x=3 
situation? 

Thanks for your help,

Roger
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On July 7, 2017 8:26:53 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:



There's a truism that you can't test your
own software - you're way to close to the way it *should* work to ever
figure out how users are going to try to use it.


Oh man is that ever true. I'm lucky enough in one of my current projects to 
have a small team of paid QA testers (very rare.) They do things I never 
ever would have thought of. Some of it is so ridiculous that no one in 
their right mind would try it. I get irritated until I remind myself that 
we're paying them to do that. So then I fix it.


The last one was one of those "out of order" sequences I mentioned. It 
caused me to rewrite a huge section that forced users into the expected 
data entry sequence. Took 2 days, but we ended up with a more professional 
app that also eliminated a lot of error checking.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/07/2017 05:07 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:


That's it. Everything else I'm about to tell you is just commentary."


Great background story.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/07/2017 05:50 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:


The way my brain works, I am decent at figuring out clever solutions, but 
terrible at realizing what others will find intuitive.


Heh. You're not alone there. There's a truism that you can't test your 
own software - you're way to close to the way it *should* work to ever 
figure out how users are going to try to use it.



my UI preferences are odd,


You make that sound like a bad thing... 

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I am impressed by your circle of beta testers!

I have plenty of friends and family that would help, but they are spread around 
the country. 

Point taken about folks not communicating so well. It seems like direct 
observation of them using it could help.

The way my brain works, I am decent at figuring out clever solutions, but 
terrible at realizing what others will find intuitive. It looks like I will 
need to put in extra effort to cultivate my testers.

My plan for very slow early growth is partly to compensate for this issue. It 
needs to be a near flawless user experience before I start promoting.

I can be a beta tester for you, if that would help. I don't resemble your 
target market in the least, and my UI preferences are odd, but I might have 
some good ideas.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:07 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I would echo Jacqueline's advice here:
> 
> " There's no secret to creating a great application that people will use and 
> enjoy. Test the application and everything in it, again and again. Run 
> everything through its paces several times and in different orders. Click 
> every button, read and scroll every field, run every script. Show every 
> dialog—and when you do, try every possible response button. Then get all your 
> friends to do the same thing too.
> 
> That's it. Everything else I'm about to tell you is just commentary."
> 
> I myself will run through the app, over and over and OVER again… as Mark 
> says, you will end up in the developer minds set and miss the UX stuff;   so 
> you need to step away mentally and do a "reset" on your head space.. then 
> come back and run through it all again. I probably spend 50 % of my time 
> working on content. 30% on code and a full 20% just "thinking about it, how 
> it works, from a user point of view." And you do this away from your computer!
> 
> Like today little girl told me "I love doing the word puzzles, but when I 
> first came to that screen it was a bit confusing how it was supposed to work. 
> Not everyone will think to click on the "I" icon [supposed to be for 
> "info/help")  Maybe you could show instructions the first time?"  and "it 
> would be great if you could save the puzzle in a semi-finished state, so I 
> can come back and finish it." This "little girl" in a 10 year-odl body with a 
> 19year old brain that actually has the patience to take a 300 character quote 
> and put the words in order, even if it takes her 20 minutes!  Even I won'd do 
> that… but she will, but she might have to run off to school and stop half way 
> through…. 
> 
> Another more mature response to the first beta: "It's all very lovely, but 
> I'm not clued in to what, where we are going …." 
> 
> In V2 or V3 I'm planning to have a little more curated entry to the app… 
> There's got to be more of "a story here"
> 
> so you will never get this UX feedback on your own.
> 
> I have about 40 beta testers.. even they are, frankly terrible about give us 
> feedback. …   if you are non-profit or on shoe string budgets, you can't pay 
> for testing, and volunteers are often super busy people. So you have to be 
> very pro-active in engaging feedback.  I'm a bit "in your face" with guests 
> here when I spot someone in my "target market" (young 15-40 educated, Hindu 
> background modern mind set)  I've come to know who will be engaged and who 
> will not.
> 
> But this type of users (Free beta testers) are not UX experts either… so you 
> get  either silence or "it works great lovely very handy and responsive on my 
> iPhone" or "it's slow" [android]  without telling me exactly what is slow and 
> when. I have deliberately hold mini "focus meetings" here with some of them 
> and drag out from them what is "wrong" with the app, because not being up on 
> UX, these users don't know how to articulate their experience very well. 
> 
> I'm constantly collecting possible beta testers. Apple devices on the 
> developer account are running up close to 45 for this year , with about as 
> many turned off from last year… and we have at least another 30 android uses… 
> but, maybe only 3-5 of these will actually communicate with me. Once I 
> actually find someone who is interested enough and articulate enough and has 
> the time to stop and talk about it, e.g.
> 
> "I really don't like that timer giving a count down sound. It ruins the 
> experience. Just let me decide how long, then let it run and at the end you 
> can "ding""
> 
> OK Aha! then I "got one!" … i.e. someone  you can spend on to help with the 
> UX and milk that dialog about the UX as much as a I can.
> 
> I have two meetings on the latest beta this afternoon: one with a 
> professional health care lady and  her daughter who both test the app and 
> another with a 19year old brilliant university studen, who flew to Kauai just 
> to go on a "study retreat" for some crazy advance bio-genetic engineering 
> 

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

I would echo Jacqueline's advice here:

" There's no secret to creating a great application that people will use and 
enjoy. Test the application and everything in it, again and again. Run 
everything through its paces several times and in different orders. Click every 
button, read and scroll every field, run every script. Show every dialog—and 
when you do, try every possible response button. Then get all your friends to 
do the same thing too.

That's it. Everything else I'm about to tell you is just commentary."

I myself will run through the app, over and over and OVER again… as Mark says, 
you will end up in the developer minds set and miss the UX stuff;   so you need 
to step away mentally and do a "reset" on your head space.. then come back and 
run through it all again. I probably spend 50 % of my time working on content. 
30% on code and a full 20% just "thinking about it, how it works, from a user 
point of view." And you do this away from your computer!

Like today little girl told me "I love doing the word puzzles, but when I first 
came to that screen it was a bit confusing how it was supposed to work. Not 
everyone will think to click on the "I" icon [supposed to be for "info/help")  
Maybe you could show instructions the first time?"  and "it would be great if 
you could save the puzzle in a semi-finished state, so I can come back and 
finish it." This "little girl" in a 10 year-odl body with a 19year old brain 
that actually has the patience to take a 300 character quote and put the words 
in order, even if it takes her 20 minutes!  Even I won'd do that… but she will, 
but she might have to run off to school and stop half way through…. 

Another more mature response to the first beta: "It's all very lovely, but I'm 
not clued in to what, where we are going …." 

In V2 or V3 I'm planning to have a little more curated entry to the app… 
There's got to be more of "a story here"

so you will never get this UX feedback on your own.

I have about 40 beta testers.. even they are, frankly terrible about give us 
feedback. …   if you are non-profit or on shoe string budgets, you can't pay 
for testing, and volunteers are often super busy people. So you have to be very 
pro-active in engaging feedback.  I'm a bit "in your face" with guests here 
when I spot someone in my "target market" (young 15-40 educated, Hindu 
background modern mind set)  I've come to know who will be engaged and who will 
not.

But this type of users (Free beta testers) are not UX experts either… so you 
get  either silence or "it works great lovely very handy and responsive on my 
iPhone" or "it's slow" [android]  without telling me exactly what is slow and 
when. I have deliberately hold mini "focus meetings" here with some of them and 
drag out from them what is "wrong" with the app, because not being up on UX, 
these users don't know how to articulate their experience very well. 

I'm constantly collecting possible beta testers. Apple devices on the developer 
account are running up close to 45 for this year , with about as many turned 
off from last year… and we have at least another 30 android uses… but, maybe 
only 3-5 of these will actually communicate with me. Once I actually find 
someone who is interested enough and articulate enough and has the time to stop 
and talk about it, e.g.

"I really don't like that timer giving a count down sound. It ruins the 
experience. Just let me decide how long, then let it run and at the end you can 
"ding""

OK Aha! then I "got one!" … i.e. someone  you can spend on to help with the UX 
and milk that dialog about the UX as much as a I can.

I have two meetings on the latest beta this afternoon: one with a professional 
health care lady and  her daughter who both test the app and another with a 
19year old brilliant university studen, who flew to Kauai just to go on a 
"study retreat" for some crazy advance bio-genetic engineering exams.. who is 
very open and articulate about  what they think about how it should work. And I 
have on my schedule to talk to 4 different beta testers remotely 

This doesn't happen by itself, you have to be super pro active. Once yet get a 
team of volunteer testers who are engaged, even just 4-5, who communicate well 
with you, you are good to go. But you might have to work through 100 different 
individuals before you find those 5.

That's my experience so far here… 




 

On 7/7/17, 7:53 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Thank you, Jacqueline 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
> 
> 
>> On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>> 
>> What steps do you guys follow for accurate 

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Bill

I am thinking of reaching out to Trip Advisor after version 1.5, but focusing 
on high schools initially.

Trolls are a big concern. I have a lot ideas on dealing with that, including 
taking advantage of the self-correcting nature of social media. I am going to 
add in a rating system for reports and enable users to exclude poorly rated 
reports from appearing on their maps. I also want to have a class of users 
called documentarians, and enable users to see only reports from them. 
Documentarians will earn half the sponsorship income from their reports, so 
that will hopefully lead to a bunch of high- quality postings. I also have some 
ideas for a report review system.

All of that will be a start. If the trolling gets too be too much, I could 
resort to requiring that postings be reviewed before being being posted to 
certain categories.

I have some ideas on how to use trolls as an asset, but that is not fully 
thought out yet.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 6:24 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathon:
> There are two learning processes going on. One is for the person testing the 
> software, the second is for you, learning what kinds of interface approaches 
> hang up new users. As you learn, by observing users, you will gain approaches 
> that minimize future user problems, and you will find that you will be able 
> to code in a way that avoids them.
> 
> If it were me, I would start small with the evaluation, and do it first by 
> informal observation, encouraging the user to think out loud as he/she uses 
> the app. You will get a feel for obstacles pretty quickly. You may run out of 
> test users quickly if you use many of them at once, so put as much common 
> sense as you can into changes that you make between new testers. If this is 
> unsuccessful, then you will have to expend more of your resources on testing.
> 
> Another good thing is to download and try other apps, checking to see how 
> their UI is set up. For example, almost every web delivered login page is the 
> same or similar. Why? Because they work. When numerous apps take a similar 
> approach, learn from them.
> 
> Good luck. Please post what you learn from your testing.
> 
> Another piece of advice (worth what it costs you??). Your application is 
> actually huge. Think Facebook and the other biggies. Maintaining it, should 
> it be successful, will be HUGE! Think trollers, spammers, whackos, etc, etc. 
> I had a site where I allowed anybody to create an account (but I had to 
> approve the account to activate it), and got loads of trial logins from 
> spammers and bots. Finally, I just disabled new accounts. I wonder if you 
> might want to consider narrowing the scope of your app, perhaps to a specific 
> education segment. Or, maybe a particular travel segment or for a specific 
> tour company. This would let you get your app out there and identify early 
> issues. A tour company might find a custom branded app that supports their 
> tour company to be appealing.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Best,
> Bill P.
> 
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> It does help, Scott - sounds like I should segment the testing process with 
>> a cycle, running through the test, observe, discuss, note cycle for each 
>> group of functionalities. Not unlike PM methodology.
>> 
>> Because I am looking to perfect and grow a single app over many years, I 
>> should be able to reliably group the functional areas for testing.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:56 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot 
>>> of testing a a distance.
>>> 
>>> Thanks Jeff
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Jonathan,
 
 I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of 
 educational software creation taught me this. I would always make friends 
 with a local teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get 
 a period to try something on the kids if it only took one period to do in 
 the lab and was something they thought good first. Things were so self 
 evident on what just worked and what crashed and burned. I really found 
 that the designs that were forced (usually by marketing) always crashed 
 and burned, but the just good ideas that came out of what was it we were 
 really trying to do somehow avoided most all the little design eddies that 
 folks would get a little hung up by. But watching you could quickly see 
 those eddies w.o having to do hard core testing. Sadly this is hard to do 
 for free in a school anymore but hiring some kids or adults will do.
 
 It's funny as I've found the same 

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Jonathon:
There are two learning processes going on. One is for the person testing the 
software, the second is for you, learning what kinds of interface approaches 
hang up new users. As you learn, by observing users, you will gain approaches 
that minimize future user problems, and you will find that you will be able to 
code in a way that avoids them.

If it were me, I would start small with the evaluation, and do it first by 
informal observation, encouraging the user to think out loud as he/she uses the 
app. You will get a feel for obstacles pretty quickly. You may run out of test 
users quickly if you use many of them at once, so put as much common sense as 
you can into changes that you make between new testers. If this is 
unsuccessful, then you will have to expend more of your resources on testing.

Another good thing is to download and try other apps, checking to see how their 
UI is set up. For example, almost every web delivered login page is the same or 
similar. Why? Because they work. When numerous apps take a similar approach, 
learn from them.

Good luck. Please post what you learn from your testing.

Another piece of advice (worth what it costs you??). Your application is 
actually huge. Think Facebook and the other biggies. Maintaining it, should it 
be successful, will be HUGE! Think trollers, spammers, whackos, etc, etc. I had 
a site where I allowed anybody to create an account (but I had to approve the 
account to activate it), and got loads of trial logins from spammers and bots. 
Finally, I just disabled new accounts. I wonder if you might want to consider 
narrowing the scope of your app, perhaps to a specific education segment. Or, 
maybe a particular travel segment or for a specific tour company. This would 
let you get your app out there and identify early issues. A tour company might 
find a custom branded app that supports their tour company to be appealing.

Good luck,

Best,
Bill P.


> On Jul 7, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It does help, Scott - sounds like I should segment the testing process with a 
> cycle, running through the test, observe, discuss, note cycle for each group 
> of functionalities. Not unlike PM methodology.
> 
> Because I am looking to perfect and grow a single app over many years, I 
> should be able to reliably group the functional areas for testing.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:56 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot 
>> of testing a a distance.
>> 
>> Thanks Jeff
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan,
>>> 
>>> I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of 
>>> educational software creation taught me this. I would always make friends 
>>> with a local teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get 
>>> a period to try something on the kids if it only took one period to do in 
>>> the lab and was something they thought good first. Things were so self 
>>> evident on what just worked and what crashed and burned. I really found 
>>> that the designs that were forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and 
>>> burned, but the just good ideas that came out of what was it we were really 
>>> trying to do somehow avoided most all the little design eddies that folks 
>>> would get a little hung up by. But watching you could quickly see those 
>>> eddies w.o having to do hard core testing. Sadly this is hard to do for 
>>> free in a school anymore but hiring some kids or adults will do.
>>> 
>>> It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
>>> spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found 
>>> it really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you 
>>> could see so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what 
>>> they were looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the 
>>> exhibit in the whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative 
>>> evaluations and I found that my just watching observations were right in 
>>> line with heavy testing and many times a bit more complete and useful for 
>>> potentially fixing things and learning for the future.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
 On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
 
 Jonathon,
 I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very 
 quickly learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid 
 small amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
 
 One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
 colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
 while these folks use the app can be very 

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It does help, Scott - sounds like I should segment the testing process with a 
cycle, running through the test, observe, discuss, note cycle for each group of 
functionalities. Not unlike PM methodology.

Because I am looking to perfect and grow a single app over many years, I should 
be able to reliably group the functional areas for testing.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:56 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot 
> of testing a a distance.
> 
> Thanks Jeff
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of educational 
>> software creation taught me this. I would always make friends with a local 
>> teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get a period to 
>> try something on the kids if it only took one period to do in the lab and 
>> was something they thought good first. Things were so self evident on what 
>> just worked and what crashed and burned. I really found that the designs 
>> that were forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and burned, but the 
>> just good ideas that came out of what was it we were really trying to do 
>> somehow avoided most all the little design eddies that folks would get a 
>> little hung up by. But watching you could quickly see those eddies w.o 
>> having to do hard core testing. Sadly this is hard to do for free in a 
>> school anymore but hiring some kids or adults will do.
>> 
>> It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
>> spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found 
>> it really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you 
>> could see so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what 
>> they were looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the exhibit 
>> in the whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative 
>> evaluations and I found that my just watching observations were right in 
>> line with heavy testing and many times a bit more complete and useful for 
>> potentially fixing things and learning for the future.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathon,
>>> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very 
>>> quickly learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid 
>>> small amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
>>> 
>>> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
>>> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
>>> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating. 
>>> 
>>> In summary:
>>> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
>>> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
>>> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over 
>>> their shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually 
>>> watching users is invaluable.
>>> 
>>> Good luck,
>>> Bill P
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot of 
testing a a distance.

Thanks Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of educational 
> software creation taught me this. I would always make friends with a local 
> teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get a period to try 
> something on the kids if it only took one period to do in the lab and was 
> something they thought good first. Things were so self evident on what just 
> worked and what crashed and burned. I really found that the designs that were 
> forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and burned, but the just good 
> ideas that came out of what was it we were really trying to do somehow 
> avoided most all the little design eddies that folks would get a little hung 
> up by. But watching you could quickly see those eddies w.o having to do hard 
> core testing. Sadly this is hard to do for free in a school anymore but 
> hiring some kids or adults will do.
> 
> It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
> spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found 
> it really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you could 
> see so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what they were 
> looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the exhibit in the 
> whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative evaluations and I 
> found that my just watching observations were right in line with heavy 
> testing and many times a bit more complete and useful for potentially fixing 
> things and learning for the future.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jeff
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathon,
>> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very 
>> quickly learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid 
>> small amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
>> 
>> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
>> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
>> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating. 
>> 
>> In summary:
>> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
>> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
>> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
>> shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching 
>> users is invaluable.
>> 
>> Good luck,
>> Bill P
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Scott Rossi via use-livecode]

You don’t have to keep your mouth shut.  In fact, you should be vocal, but you 
want your tester to be more vocal.

Generalized suggestions from past experience…

- First, explain to the tester in general terms what your app does.  Avoid 
getting into operating specifics.

- Tell the tester you want them to verbalize as much as possible their thought 
process when encountering each screen/interaction process.  You goal is to get 
a sense of what the tester is thinking and why, not just whether or not they 
exhibit expected behavior (you will have to prompt the tester repeatedly to 
explain their thinking without scolding or leading).

- Explain to your tester there are no right or wrong actions/answers while 
using your app — you are trying to observe real world behavior and initial 
responses to what they see/experience, and their interaction (or lack of it) in 
no way reflects on their “intelligence”.

- Give the tester one or more planned tasks to complete.  Remind them to 
describe their thinking as they attempt to complete each task.

- Each time the tester is shown a new screen/process, ask them what they think 
they need to do at that point. Ask why.  Keep all requests/comments neutral, 
never correct the tester.  If their response doesn’t fit with your intended 
behavior, ask the tester what they would suggest to improve 
interaction/outcome, or make the process more intelligible.  Avoid allowing the 
tester complete too many tasks in a row without describing their thought 
process.

- If the tester can’t figure out how to proceed to a next step, give them a 
hint (if possible) and determine if they are able to understand the 
interaction. Again, ask for suggestions on what could be improved.  Ask why.

- Rinse and repeat.

- Ask the tester at the end of the test what they felt was the biggest issue 
with the app.  Ask the tester to reiterate how they would correct the problem.  
Review your list of problems encountered by the tester to confirm your 
understanding of the issues.

- Record/note all responses.  Keep written notes at a minimum, use audio and/or 
video recording to collect more detailed/nuanced responses. In an ideal world, 
you would record the tester and the screen they interact with concurrently.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Scott Rossi 
Creative Director 
Tactile Media, UX/UI Design 



> On Jul 7, 2017, at 12:49 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> From reading these, it looks like my basic steps are these:
> 
> 1. Make changes to the app
> 
> 2. Test for usability myself a dozen times, trying things in different orders 
>  and in different ways to make it fail
> 
> 3. Have my testers, which is really about 3 family members, test it to make 
> it fail
> 
> No coaching, no hints
> 
> Directly observe their tests very closely
> 
> Make notes on any moments of confusion, even if they minor
> 
> Interview them, asking what they were thinking at each step
> 
> Adjust the help file and add hints - and test those as well
> 
> 4. Fix as needed and retest
> 
> 5. Publish
> 
> 6. Try to find virgin testers for next time, varying in age and mindset
> 
> Does that sound about right?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you, Jacqueline 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
>>> 
>>> 
 On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
 budget for proper official testing procedures?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

Jonathan,

I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of educational 
software creation taught me this. I would always make friends with a local 
teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get a period to try 
something on the kids if it only took one period to do in the lab and was 
something they thought good first. Things were so self evident on what just 
worked and what crashed and burned. I really found that the designs that were 
forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and burned, but the just good 
ideas that came out of what was it we were really trying to do somehow avoided 
most all the little design eddies that folks would get a little hung up by. But 
watching you could quickly see those eddies w.o having to do hard core testing. 
Sadly this is hard to do for free in a school anymore but hiring some kids or 
adults will do.

It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found it 
really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you could see 
so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what they were 
looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the exhibit in the 
whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative evaluations and I 
found that my just watching observations were right in line with heavy testing 
and many times a bit more complete and useful for potentially fixing things and 
learning for the future.

Cheers

Jeff

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Jonathon,
> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very quickly 
> learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid small 
> amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
> 
> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating. 
> 
> In summary:
> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
> shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching 
> users is invaluable.
> 
> Good luck,
> Bill P


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Well, 3 out of 3 people who tested my app from this list got stuck signing up, 
but no one got stuck when I was there to prompt them to use the Universal 
Options button.

So, I have to discipline myself to keep my mouth shut. Everything depends on it.

This is my second time reading your article, Jacqueline- but this time I 
appreciate it much much more!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's a good summary. It's tedious sometimes but essential. The hardest part 
> by far is keeping your mouth shut. If I had a one-way mirror in a 
> sound-proofed room I'd use that. Another method might be to have the user 
> share their screen and turn off your microphone, but screen sharing is not 
> easy on mobile apps.
> 
> On 7/7/17 2:49 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> From reading these, it looks like my basic steps are these:
>> 1. Make changes to the app
>> 2. Test for usability myself a dozen times, trying things in different 
>> orders  and in different ways to make it fail
>> 3. Have my testers, which is really about 3 family members, test it to make 
>> it fail
>> No coaching, no hints
>> Directly observe their tests very closely
>> Make notes on any moments of confusion, even if they minor
>> Interview them, asking what they were thinking at each step
>> Adjust the help file and add hints - and test those as well
>> 4. Fix as needed and retest
>> 5. Publish
>> 6. Try to find virgin testers for next time, varying in age and mindset
>> Does that sound about right?
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

That's a good summary. It's tedious sometimes but essential. The hardest 
part by far is keeping your mouth shut. If I had a one-way mirror in a 
sound-proofed room I'd use that. Another method might be to have the 
user share their screen and turn off your microphone, but screen sharing 
is not easy on mobile apps.


On 7/7/17 2:49 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:

From reading these, it looks like my basic steps are these:


1. Make changes to the app

2. Test for usability myself a dozen times, trying things in different orders  
and in different ways to make it fail

3. Have my testers, which is really about 3 family members, test it to make it 
fail

No coaching, no hints

Directly observe their tests very closely

Make notes on any moments of confusion, even if they minor

Interview them, asking what they were thinking at each step

Adjust the help file and add hints - and test those as well

4. Fix as needed and retest

5. Publish

6. Try to find virgin testers for next time, varying in age and mindset

Does that sound about right?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

>From reading these, it looks like my basic steps are these:

1. Make changes to the app

2. Test for usability myself a dozen times, trying things in different orders  
and in different ways to make it fail

3. Have my testers, which is really about 3 family members, test it to make it 
fail

No coaching, no hints

Directly observe their tests very closely

Make notes on any moments of confusion, even if they minor

Interview them, asking what they were thinking at each step

Adjust the help file and add hints - and test those as well

4. Fix as needed and retest

5. Publish

6. Try to find virgin testers for next time, varying in age and mindset

Does that sound about right?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Jacqueline 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
>> 
>> 
>>> On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
>>> budget for proper official testing procedures?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Group does not exist after "copy to this card"

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

I doing this thing of saving a custom control in the loader stack on card 
4..but it's behavior is text only stack on external to the stack

group "shareUI""

then I have a new init handler that adds the long id's of these controls

global sConfigA

to then it is super easy to do this anywhere anytime, on other stacks and 
modules (loader stack is always present in memory and these controls are not 
overloaded with images so they don't take up a lot of RAM in the app package)

copy sConfigA["shareContro"] to this card

the control copies and appears and it has a behavior that fires,

so far this is all very cool "brilliant" in fact…  a new world of view 
object/classes opens up! wow..

but after the copy is done, the engine still doesn't acknowledge that the grp 
exists

command sivasiva_Share
 put sConfigA["shareControl"] into tShareControl
put exists(group "shareUI") # false
copy tShareControl to this card # it works! buttons fire, behavior triggers Wow
put exists(group "shareUI") #  oops: still returns false
end sivasiva_Share

so there is no way to prevent the instantiation of multiple copies of the 
custom control…

I *could* copy this particular control to *all* stack on preopenstack and then 
assume it is present, but there are caveats there… and I want to stay on this 
path of dynamic instantiation of view "classes" as needed. It has so much 
potential.  I could also do the things of setting flags… but this adds 
complexity to what should be simple

if not [some control exists]
  create it by copying the template
else
assume its already there, ready to go
end if



So we *do* need to know if the control actually copied and is now present on 
the card, albeit in an unsaved state.

BR
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Jacqueline 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
> 
> 
>> On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
>> budget for proper official testing procedures?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html


On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
 wrote:


What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
budget for proper official testing procedures?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: iOS Browser Widget and PDFs? SOLVED

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I think you are safe using special folder path "documents" on all platforms.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:00 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> FWIW…
> 
> The issue was related to the specialFolderPath. When I was testing this 
> aspect of the app I had it point to specialFolderPath(“Desktop").  Naturally, 
> on the iPad I changed it to specialFolderPath(“engine”) thinking that would 
> cover the iOS app. Nope. Apparently you can’t save files (pdfs) to the 
> “engine” folder.
> 
> I changed it to specialFolderpath(“Documents”) and everything seems to be 
> good now.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> John Patten
> SUSD
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:32 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I had it “Answer" me the path to the pdf in the iOS app on the iPad and it 
>> reports back:
>> 
>> /var/containerns/Bundle?Application?CA0B0721-80F7-4B24-92C4-0B156D/PTP 
>> System.app/Teacher Laptop Replacement Quote (19).dpf
>> 
>> This should be the path that the - set url of the widget “quoteBrowser” - is 
>> set to on the , correct?
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:19 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All!
>>> 
>>> I have little app that I’m using track our department quotes/purchases etc. 
>>> It pulls the info out of a mySQl db. I have an issue with browser widget 
>>> displaying the pdf quotes on iOS. The app pulls the PDF out of mysql via:
>>> Put "SELECT attachment FROM quotes WHERE name ='" & jQuote & "'" into btSQL
>>> 
>>> put revDataFromQuery(tab, cr, gConnectionID, btSQL) into btData
>>> 
>>> put base64Decode(btData) into vtemp
>>> 
>>> put specialFolderPath("engine") & "/" & jQuote into vPath
>>> 
>>> open file vPath for binary write
>>> 
>>> write vtemp to file vPath
>>> 
>>> close file vPath
>>> 
>>> I then have to replace the spaces in the name of the pdf file with a:
>>> 
>>> replace space with "%20" in vPath
>>> set the url of widget "quoteBrowser" of cd id 1067 to "file:" & vPath
>>> 
>>> replace "%20" with space in vPath
>>> 
>>> set the script button "Print Quote" of cd id 1067 to "on mouseUp" & return 
>>> & "Launch url " & quote & "file:" & vPath & quote & return & "end mouseUp"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Again this works fine on my Mac and on the iOS simulator. The PDF shows up 
>>> just fine in the browser widget. 
>>> 
>>> However, when I build the app, and try it out on he actual iPad, it does 
>>> not. I just get the blank white widget.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions on what I might try?
>>> 
>>> Thank you!
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: iOS Browser Widget and PDFs? SOLVED

[JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode]

FWIW…

The issue was related to the specialFolderPath. When I was testing this aspect 
of the app I had it point to specialFolderPath(“Desktop").  Naturally, on the 
iPad I changed it to specialFolderPath(“engine”) thinking that would cover the 
iOS app. Nope. Apparently you can’t save files (pdfs) to the “engine” folder.

I changed it to specialFolderpath(“Documents”) and everything seems to be good 
now.

Cheers!

John Patten
SUSD


> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:32 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I had it “Answer" me the path to the pdf in the iOS app on the iPad and it 
> reports back:
> 
> /var/containerns/Bundle?Application?CA0B0721-80F7-4B24-92C4-0B156D/PTP 
> System.app/Teacher Laptop Replacement Quote (19).dpf
> 
> This should be the path that the - set url of the widget “quoteBrowser” - is 
> set to on the , correct?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:19 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All!
>> 
>> I have little app that I’m using track our department quotes/purchases etc. 
>> It pulls the info out of a mySQl db. I have an issue with browser widget 
>> displaying the pdf quotes on iOS. The app pulls the PDF out of mysql via:
>> Put "SELECT attachment FROM quotes WHERE name ='" & jQuote & "'" into btSQL
>> 
>> put revDataFromQuery(tab, cr, gConnectionID, btSQL) into btData
>> 
>> put base64Decode(btData) into vtemp
>> 
>> put specialFolderPath("engine") & "/" & jQuote into vPath
>> 
>> open file vPath for binary write
>> 
>> write vtemp to file vPath
>> 
>> close file vPath
>> 
>> I then have to replace the spaces in the name of the pdf file with a:
>> 
>> replace space with "%20" in vPath
>> set the url of widget "quoteBrowser" of cd id 1067 to "file:" & vPath
>> 
>> replace "%20" with space in vPath
>> 
>> set the script button "Print Quote" of cd id 1067 to "on mouseUp" & return & 
>> "Launch url " & quote & "file:" & vPath & quote & return & "end mouseUp"
>> 
>> 
>> Again this works fine on my Mac and on the iOS simulator. The PDF shows up 
>> just fine in the browser widget. 
>> 
>> However, when I build the app, and try it out on he actual iPad, it does 
>> not. I just get the blank white widget.
>> 
>> Any suggestions on what I might try?
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Problem showing card script in IDE in LC9.0.0(dp7)

[hh via use-livecode]

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19887

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Google Static Maps Demo Available

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

I just uploaded a new version, with a few minor tweaks to my Google static maps 
demo stack, at Hermann’s suggestions (same link address I sent previously). You 
don’t need to get a Google APIKey anymore, but will need it for a real app.

If anybody would like to modify it to work with Bing maps or OSM, that would be 
great and I’d like to see it. Be careful, though, as a critical need, for my 
intended purpose, is to have the lat/lon values of the corners of the displayed 
map. The calculations that work for Google may not work for the other map 
services. For apps that generate a gazillion hits, you may have to pay, too.

Best,
Bill P

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 7:59 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys - just a quick warning about google. Read their TOS very carefully 
> before building an app around their service. One can find several horror 
> stories online about Google cancelling contracts without really explaining 
> why.
> 
> Bill's stack should work well with a little bit of adaptation for bing maps 
> and OSM providers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 07/06/2017 10:33 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Mark:
>>> Yes, you’ve done it all.
>> 
>> Cool. It's working as expected then.
>> 
>> It was intended just to demo the display of a Google Static Map and show how 
>> to get the corners of the image so the lat/lon of the mouse position could 
>> be calculated. To do that, I had to rely oh Hermann’s expertise with 
>> Javascript to convert a posted solution to LCS. I spent time carefully 
>> checking that the corners calculation agreed with the box plotted by the 
>> maps api. The map image is also slightly stretched horizontally (to fit my 
>> own project map size) and I had to do some tweaking to the corners code to 
>> make that work.
>>> The links to the Google API get the programmer to the web site that tells 
>>> how to display streets, display a map of a particular city or other 
>>> feature, add symbols, etc. For those who need to do that, this should help. 
>>> It’s pretty trivial to change the URL params, so I felt I could leave that 
>>> to the user. Actually, the entire thing is pretty trivial, but it did take 
>>> me quite a bit of time, thrashing through the details because I’d never 
>>> worked with the Google maps api, so perhaps others might find it useful.
>>> My project will continue and plot data on a captured image, scroll the map, 
>>> etc. I hadn’t planned on including that part in the demo, but could, if 
>>> requested.
>> 
>> The demo doesn't seem to be trivial at all, especially looking at the 
>> libraries involved - you've put a lot of work into that.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Problem showing card script in IDE in LC9.0.0(dp7)

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Folks:
LC 9.0.0(dp7) doesn’t show the script of the first card on my application, when 
I open it in the project browser. If I don’t try to edit the script, then save 
the app, everything is ok. Going further, it appears that the card script of 
the last card is not displayed. To work around this, there needs to be a dummy 
last card.

This works in an empty stack. Just make a new stack with a single card, enter 
something in the script of the first card. Close it, then open again. It’s 
gone. Then, add another card, then open the script in the first card. Whoopee, 
it’s there. But, then anything you enter in the script of the last card 
disappears when entered, closed, and opened again.

However, in LC 8.1.5(rc3), it shows as expected.

I will report this bug as soon as anybody verifies this.

I’m on OSX10.12.5.
Best,
Bill P

William A. Prothero
http://earthlearningsolution.org/

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text style is hit or miss for me

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

Roger,

The advantage of the array notation for textStyle is that you can explicitly 
set each style for a given run of text.

The disadvantage of the array notation for textStyle is that you have to 
explicitly un-set each style for a given run of text.  ;)

  set the textStyle[“bold”] of the selectedChunk to false

But as you note, if you want to clear out *all* style formatting, the old, 
non-array method of setting the textStyle to plain works great. Nuke those 
styles!

Devin


On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
> wrote:

That worked perfectly for all but plain.  In my plain button, I had to
write it as:  set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to "plain".

Thank you, Mark!
~Roger


On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

Hi Roger,

On 2017-07-07 16:36, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote:

How do you guys do formatting buttons?


Try

  set the textStyle["bold"] of the selectedChunk to true
  set the textStyle["italic"] of the selectedChunk to true

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ 
http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Devin!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> Here’s a link to my lesson outline when I teach my students about conducting 
> user evaluations of software. It’s still a bit sparse and needs to be fleshed 
> out, but I include some links to a couple of really good articles on 
> evaluation techniques, including one by our very own Jacque Gay.
> 
> http://livecode.byu.edu/userevals/UserEvals.php
> 
> Devin
> 
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:29 AM, prothero--- via use-livecode 
> > wrote:
> 
> Jonathon,
> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very quickly 
> learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid small 
> amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
> 
> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating.
> 
> In summary:
> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
> shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching 
> users is invaluable.
> 
> Good luck,
> Bill P
> 
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:57 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I have 
> been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.
> 
> Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to 
> submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.
> 
> While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be 
> disastrous for a large company.
> 
> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
> budget for proper official testing procedures?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

In  another era, Heathkit reportedly used secretaries to test the
instructions to their electronics kits.

They found that they could only use any given secretary three times, as she
would pick up enough doing the first three to overcome errors in future
runs without being stopped by them . . .

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:29 AM, prothero--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Jonathon,
> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very
> quickly learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid
> small amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
>
> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my
> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder
> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating.
>
> In summary:
> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over
> their shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually
> watching users is invaluable.
>
> Good luck,
> Bill P
>
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
> > On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:57 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I
> have been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.
> >
> > Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to
> submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.
> >
> > While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be
> disastrous for a large company.
> >
> > What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a
> budget for proper official testing procedures?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

Jonathan,

Here’s a link to my lesson outline when I teach my students about conducting 
user evaluations of software. It’s still a bit sparse and needs to be fleshed 
out, but I include some links to a couple of really good articles on evaluation 
techniques, including one by our very own Jacque Gay.

http://livecode.byu.edu/userevals/UserEvals.php

Devin

On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:29 AM, prothero--- via use-livecode 
> wrote:

Jonathon,
I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very quickly 
learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid small amounts 
to graduate students to get their feedback.

One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my colleagues 
who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder while these 
folks use the app can be very illuminating.

In summary:
1. Ask friends and relatives first.
2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching users 
is invaluable.

Good luck,
Bill P


William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:57 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I have 
been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.

Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to 
submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.

While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be 
disastrous for a large company.

What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a budget 
for proper official testing procedures?

Sent from my iPhone
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text style is hit or miss for me

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

That worked perfectly for all but plain.  In my plain button, I had to
write it as:  set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to "plain".

Thank you, Mark!
~Roger


On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> On 2017-07-07 16:36, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> How do you guys do formatting buttons?
>>
>
> Try
>
>set the textStyle["bold"] of the selectedChunk to true
>set the textStyle["italic"] of the selectedChunk to true
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Google Static Maps Demo Available

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hey guys - just a quick warning about google. Read their TOS very carefully 
before building an app around their service. One can find several horror 
stories online about Google cancelling contracts without really explaining why.

Bill's stack should work well with a little bit of adaptation for bing maps and 
OSM providers.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 07/06/2017 10:33 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> Mark:
>> Yes, you’ve done it all.
> 
> Cool. It's working as expected then.
> 
> It was intended just to demo the display of a Google Static Map and show how 
> to get the corners of the image so the lat/lon of the mouse position could be 
> calculated. To do that, I had to rely oh Hermann’s expertise with Javascript 
> to convert a posted solution to LCS. I spent time carefully checking that the 
> corners calculation agreed with the box plotted by the maps api. The map 
> image is also slightly stretched horizontally (to fit my own project map 
> size) and I had to do some tweaking to the corners code to make that work.
>> The links to the Google API get the programmer to the web site that tells 
>> how to display streets, display a map of a particular city or other feature, 
>> add symbols, etc. For those who need to do that, this should help. It’s 
>> pretty trivial to change the URL params, so I felt I could leave that to the 
>> user. Actually, the entire thing is pretty trivial, but it did take me quite 
>> a bit of time, thrashing through the details because I’d never worked with 
>> the Google maps api, so perhaps others might find it useful.
>> My project will continue and plot data on a captured image, scroll the map, 
>> etc. I hadn’t planned on including that part in the demo, but could, if 
>> requested.
> 
> The demo doesn't seem to be trivial at all, especially looking at the 
> libraries involved - you've put a lot of work into that.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/07/2017 07:29 AM, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote:


Actually watching users is invaluable.


Absolutely.
And try to resist the urge to help them along.
And take notes about where they hesitate or stumble.

As a QA engineer, I find that when I'm faced with a new application I 
have about two weeks where I can reasonably find workflow problems. 
During that period I try to write down every nitpicking thing I can find 
and make notes about where I find myself unsure about what comes next, 
etc. After that time I have become so used to the way it's supposed to 
work that it's hard to step outside the box and think like a new user. I 
get into the developer mindset then, and while that's essential for 
finding deeper bugs it means missing some UX issues.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text style is hit or miss for me

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Hi Roger,

On 2017-07-07 16:36, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote:

How do you guys do formatting buttons?


Try

   set the textStyle["bold"] of the selectedChunk to true
   set the textStyle["italic"] of the selectedChunk to true

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Text style is hit or miss for me

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

 I am attempting to add formatting buttons above a field.  If the text is
typed into the field, my formatting buttons work as expected.  When a user
pastes text from another application, my formatting works sometimes, but
not always.

Below is what I use in my Bold button, and Italic button. I want to keep
the style that is already applied, and add an additional style, for
example, if the selection is already bold, I want it to stay bold but add
italics.

set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to (the textStyle of the
selectedChunk) & "," & "bold"

set the textStyle of the selectedChunk to (the textStyle of the
selectedChunk) & "," & "italic"
How do you guys do formatting buttons?

~Roger
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Google Static Maps Demo Available

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/06/2017 10:33 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:

Mark:
Yes, you’ve done it all.


Cool. It's working as expected then.

 It was intended just to demo the display of a Google Static Map and 
show how to get the corners of the image so the lat/lon of the mouse 
position could be calculated. To do that, I had to rely oh Hermann’s 
expertise with Javascript to convert a posted solution to LCS. I spent 
time carefully checking that the corners calculation agreed with the box 
plotted by the maps api. The map image is also slightly stretched 
horizontally (to fit my own project map size) and I had to do some 
tweaking to the corners code to make that work.


The links to the Google API get the programmer to the web site that tells how 
to display streets, display a map of a particular city or other feature, add 
symbols, etc. For those who need to do that, this should help. It’s pretty 
trivial to change the URL params, so I felt I could leave that to the user. 
Actually, the entire thing is pretty trivial, but it did take me quite a bit of 
time, thrashing through the details because I’d never worked with the Google 
maps api, so perhaps others might find it useful.

My project will continue and plot data on a captured image, scroll the map, 
etc. I hadn’t planned on including that part in the demo, but could, if 
requested.


The demo doesn't seem to be trivial at all, especially looking at the 
libraries involved - you've put a lot of work into that.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

Jonathon,
I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very quickly 
learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid small amounts 
to graduate students to get their feedback.

One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my colleagues 
who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder while these 
folks use the app can be very illuminating. 

In summary:
1. Ask friends and relatives first.
2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching users 
is invaluable.

Good luck,
Bill P


William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:57 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I have 
> been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.
> 
> Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to 
> submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.
> 
> While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be 
> disastrous for a large company.
> 
> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
> budget for proper official testing procedures?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: debugging a CEF browser instance

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

Hi Bernard,

On 2017-07-07 14:02, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote:

This makes it very clear that the problem relates to the way that LC is
embedding the CEF browser. This is also confirmed by the fact the page 
will
not load in LC browser widget on OS X.  Is there any way of debugging 
the
browser that is embedded in OS X? If not I'll have to put this project 
on

hold without any way to debug any browser instance.


Mac does not use CEF - it uses the system WebView (which is Safari).

The fact it doesn't work in either Mac's WebView of CEF may suggest that 
the webpage
is doing something which is 'not allowed' by default - they are both 
WebKit based
browsers, so it makes sense that if that is the case it would not work 
in either.


What is the webpage which is not working? If you file a bug report with 
the details
we can look into it - that might be slightly quicker than getting 
debugging/logging

configurable in (at least) the CEF browser.

Warmest Regards,

Mark

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: debugging a CEF browser instance

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

I've now found an app which has embedded the CEF browser within it.  This
embedded CEF browser has no trouble loading the page in question.

This makes it very clear that the problem relates to the way that LC is
embedding the CEF browser. This is also confirmed by the fact the page will
not load in LC browser widget on OS X.  Is there any way of debugging the
browser that is embedded in OS X? If not I'll have to put this project on
hold without any way to debug any browser instance.

Regards
Bernard

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2017-07-06 08:39, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Why?
>>
>
> In general there is a cost to logging - particularly CEF's which is very
> verbose. On Windows you might not notice (as stdout/stderr output is
> generally dumped to the equivalent of /dev/null), but on Linux if you
> happen to be working from the command-line and running UI stuff using the
> browser widget from there then you'll find your terminal flooded with CEF
> logging (and I mean flooded!).
>
> I don't think anyone has asked specifically about having it configurable
> before now - although I noticed it would be useful last month (
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19862) whilst attempting to
> figure out why the browser widget only works on *some* linux installs
> (seems to be somewhat independent of distribution - the workarounds some
> people have found with regards the locale don't seem to work anymore).
>
> Unfortunately, we aren't any closer to solving the linux problem... After
> at least three of us spending more hours than I'd care to comment on trying
> to figure out what is happening there, we're working through a couple of
> tasks so that we can more easily update CEF to the latest version.
>
> In particular, making it so that we can build our 'prebuilts' (currently
> ICU, OpenSSL and Curl) on vulcan (doing it manually is arduous and
> intensely error prone). We can then move the building of the CEF library
> component to a prebuilt and automate its generation based on a version tag
> (we can thank Spotify for taking over the management of binary releases of
> CEF - http://opensource.spotify.com/cefbuilds/index.html - as they've
> made it much much easier).
>
> So we're currently involved in a (small) yak-shave in this regard...
> Although one which will also mean we can solve a couple of other issues -
> the size of ICU data (has anyone noticed that the 9 engines are somewhat
> bigger than 8? That's down in good part to the ICU data), and also the
> several minute increase per platform in build time due to the Skia update.
> I also hope that this means that over time we can eliminate the thirdparty
> submodule entirely - which would be one less point of friction in our
> source base.
>
> Incidentally, Bernard and Jonathon - I take it you are using the browser
> widget on Windows? (The reason I ask that is because CEF is only used on
> Windows and Linux - Mac/Android and iOS all use the built-in browser - all
> three are WebKit derived, like CEF).
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I have 
been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.

Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to 
submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.

While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be 
disastrous for a large company.

What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a budget 
for proper official testing procedures?

Sent from my iPhone
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Swami,
The interface confuses people about whether they are logging in or signing up - 
I added some things that make that explicit and going to submit as soon as I 
test on a few friends.

If you want to register, fill in the fields for a new user then click the gear 
again to have the option to submit.

Clearly, I tested this in a biased way - not going to make that mistake again.
 
Thanks for checking it out!
J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Downloaded
> 
> initial user registration failed some how.. no clear feedback on why, but now 
> there is nothing more I can do…  anything I try leads to a  Error incorect or 
> inaccurate app user login credentials.
> 
> Going for the gear, choosing new user, enter creds. still get same message. 
> 
> I'm locked out of this app.
> 
> Also you need to trap for the return key in the name field.  use can hit 
> return and a cr is added and the name he entered disappears on line 1 above.
> 
> you need to put in that field
> 
> on return
> # do nothing, and do not pass the return key in the name field… or send the 
> cursor down to the Password field.
> end return
> 
> or something like that.. I have to look … 
> 
> but, looks interesting, I'm impressed by the level of community activity you 
> expect to generate/support… looks "scary" to me unless you have a big staff. 
> I've been thinking about similar things for our new app, but everytime I shy 
> away… 
> 
> BR
> 
> On 7/6/17, 4:01 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch, but 
> I am excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until 
> version 1.5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Google Static Maps Demo Available

[hh via use-livecode]

Hi William,

this is a great demo, especially your (clever) library functions.

It works all fine here and it is really the base one needs for getting
everything else through the GMap APIs.
Of course, every LC user from all over the world who is not used to work
with numeric coords would be happy to have a basic map scroll.

Thanks for this demo. It was worth to translate the few js lines for that!

Hermann

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Feature Race: Pick Your Project

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I was one of the ones who didn't contribute because I have very little interest 
in data grids, and right now I have very little time to read this list - so I 
just went with the 'data grid' headline and concluded that it wasn't for me. 
Jacque's post belatedly made me regret this. 

In retrospect I'm glad the funding came in.

Sorry I wasn't more help.

Graham

Sent from my iPad

> On 5 Jul 2017, at 21:44, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Another reason may be the subject title. I'm not sure everyone understands 
> that this feature will improve much more than just datagrids. A subset of 
> users employ datagrids, but everyone needs smooth scrolling in a variety of 
> situations. That's the primary reason I pledged -- I'm not too interested in 
> datagrid performance but the inability to properly scroll fields within 
> groups is big hurdle in almost every project I do.
> 
> I hope more people jump in because I, for one, really need this feature. The 
> sooner the better.
> 
>> On 7/5/17 1:04 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:
>> I¹m not sure if its apathy or more likely just the holiday weekend. That
>> said...
>> I¹m sorry its taken so long to do Infinite LiveCode. As I¹ve said in my
>> keynote, in the comments section and on the blog, we wouldn¹t be funding a
>> new project if it that one wasn¹t in the last stages of being wrapped up.
>> Android has been mostly delivered and the other platforms and stretch
>> goals are a small piece now. We really have finally cracked this project,
>> getting it into a build is the last step.
>> The reality is that we now need to look at what we are doing next and what
>> is affordable. If we don¹t fund this project, the knock on effects for the
>> platform will be very significant. We¹re already a very small team that
>> punches well above our weight. We have the potential for a very bright
>> future with the rather amazing stuff that you can now do. Check out Ali¹s
>> blog post on Android and wait a few more days for more. We can build on
>> everything we¹ve just created and maintain the considerable momentum we
>> have built or we can shrink.
>> Kind regards,
>> Kevin
>> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> On 05/07/2017, 18:24, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Brown via
>> use-livecode" > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> The comments section on the pledge page gives a good insight as to why
>>> there may be a feeling of apathy towards this fundraiser
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Mobile - "Copy Files" tab of Standalone

[Alan via use-livecode]

Using LC9dp7 - I'm adding files and a folder to be used by the Standalone 
Builder in the "Copy Files" tab. For some reason, when adding a file in a 
sub-folder, it seems to create the sub-folder as well when testing the app in 
the Simulator - I'm pretty sure that this didn't used to be the case. It's 
correctly locating it in the specialFolderPath("resources"), just also creating 
the extra sub-folder before placing it inside there.

i.e. I include a file:

data/test.txt

and I expect that to be in

specialFolderPath("resources")  & "test.txt"

but instead it's in

specialFolderPath("resources") & "/data/test.txt"

I guess I should check on the device to see if it's the same or not.

Any suggestions welcome.

cheers

Alan
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode