Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Marty, apologies, I forgot to add I am doing this on an “M” chip. 

Mark


> On 18 Apr 2023, at 10:42 am, Mark Smith  wrote:
> 
> Hi Marty, this worked like a charm. I was trying to open Trevor's 
> dataview_demo and was getting the same “An error occurred while initialising 
> the application…” msg. This fixed it. Thanks
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On 14 Apr 2023, at 10:35 pm, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t have an “M” chip Mac here to test at the moment but here’s something 
>> to try:
>> 
>> In the Levure framework open the helpers folder and then the preferences 
>> folder
>> Modify the helper.yml file by deleting the section under externals so the 
>> file just contains the following
>> 
>> externals:
>> libraries:
>> - filename: preferences.livecodescript
>> extensions:
>> - filename: nsuserdefaults.lcm
>>   engine version: ">=9.0"
>>   platform: macos,ios
>> 
>> Then try a build and see how that works. I just tried it on my Intel iMac 
>> and preferences are working OK without the previous content.
>> 
>> Please let me know how it works on your “M” mac
>> 
>> 
>> Marty
>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to
>>>> use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am
>>>> able to open the app in the IDE with no issue.
>>>> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred
>>>> while initializing the application [unable to load external
>>>> Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see
>>>> in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed
>>>> Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script.
>>>> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this?
>>> 
>>> So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and 
>>> ask it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable 
>>> generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of 
>>> standalone settings).
>>> 
>>> The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in 
>>> Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is 
>>> running using that architecture.
>>> 
>>> The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and 
>>> included in Levure.
>>> 
>>> (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB 
>>> extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for 
>>> an external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the 
>>> external).
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>> 
>> 
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>> preferences:
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> 


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Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Marty, this worked like a charm. I was trying to open Trevor's dataview_demo 
and was getting the same “An error occurred while initialising the 
application…” msg. This fixed it. Thanks

Mark


> On 14 Apr 2023, at 10:35 pm, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t have an “M” chip Mac here to test at the moment but here’s something 
> to try:
> 
> In the Levure framework open the helpers folder and then the preferences 
> folder
> Modify the helper.yml file by deleting the section under externals so the 
> file just contains the following
> 
> externals:
> libraries:
>  - filename: preferences.livecodescript
> extensions:
>  - filename: nsuserdefaults.lcm
>engine version: ">=9.0"
>platform: macos,ios
> 
> Then try a build and see how that works. I just tried it on my Intel iMac and 
> preferences are working OK without the previous content.
> 
> Please let me know how it works on your “M” mac
> 
> 
> Marty
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to
>>> use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am
>>> able to open the app in the IDE with no issue.
>>> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred
>>> while initializing the application [unable to load external
>>> Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see
>>> in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed
>>> Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script.
>>> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this?
>> 
>> So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and 
>> ask it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable 
>> generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of 
>> standalone settings).
>> 
>> The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in 
>> Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is 
>> running using that architecture.
>> 
>> The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and 
>> included in Levure.
>> 
>> (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB 
>> extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for 
>> an external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the 
>> external).
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
> 
> 
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Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

I don’t have an “M” chip Mac here to test at the moment but here’s something to 
try:

In the Levure framework open the helpers folder and then the preferences folder
Modify the helper.yml file by deleting the section under externals so the file 
just contains the following

externals:
libraries:
  - filename: preferences.livecodescript
extensions:
  - filename: nsuserdefaults.lcm
engine version: ">=9.0"
platform: macos,ios

Then try a build and see how that works. I just tried it on my Intel iMac and 
preferences are working OK without the previous content.

Please let me know how it works on your “M” mac


Marty

> On Apr 10, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to
>> use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am
>> able to open the app in the IDE with no issue.
>> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred
>> while initializing the application [unable to load external
>> Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see
>> in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed
>> Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script.
>> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this?
> 
> So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, and ask 
> it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, disable 
> generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane of standalone 
> settings).
> 
> The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in 
> Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is running 
> using that architecture.
> 
> The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and 
> included in Levure.
> 
> (When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB 
> extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need for an 
> external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of the external).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things


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Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2023-04-08 14:58, bob--- via use-livecode wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to
use LC 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am
able to open the app in the IDE with no issue.

When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred
while initializing the application [unable to load external
Preferences]”. I’m tracing through the Levure script now and can see
in fact the Preference stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed
Preferences.bundle is at the location referenced in the script.

Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this?


So you'll need to (for now) use `Get Info` on LiveCode.app in Finder, 
and ask it to 'open in rosetta'... Then when building any standalones, 
disable generating a the arm64 slice (you can do this in the MacOS pane 
of standalone settings).


The reason is isn't working is that the preferences external included in 
Levure does not have a ARM64 slice - so won't load when the engine is 
running using that architecture.


The preferences external will need to be rebuilt with an arm64 slice and 
included in Levure.


(When looking at this the other day, I did notice that Levure has an LCB 
extension which can do preferences stuff on macOS - bypassing the need 
for an external, but I couldn't see how you opt to use that instead of 
the external).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things

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Re: Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

I use Levure to build apps too and discovered this issue when my standalones 
try to run natively on the Apple “M” chips. I’m guessing that LC 9.6.9rc3 
(haven’t tried it yet) defaults to running natively rather than under Rosetta. 
For some reason when running natively it apparently thinks that something in 
the “Preferences.bundle" is a (not native) external so won’t/can’t load it.

So I am also needing a solution to this but no luck so far.
---
Marty Knapp

> On Apr 8, 2023, at 6:58 AM, bob--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to use LC 
> 9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am able to open 
> the app in the IDE with no issue.
> 
> When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred while 
> initializing the application [unable to load external Preferences]”. I’m 
> tracing through the Levure script now and can see in fact the Preference 
> stack is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed Preferences.bundle is at the 
> location referenced in the script.
> 
> Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob

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Unable to load Preferences LC 9.6.9rc3 and Levure 9.0.5

[bob--- via use-livecode]

I'm wondering if anyone might be able to help me out. I’m trying to use LC 
9.6.9rc3 with an app built with Levure. With LC 9.6.9rc2 I am able to open the 
app in the IDE with no issue.

When I try to open the app with LC 9.6.9rc3 I get “An error occurred while 
initializing the application [unable to load external Preferences]”. I’m 
tracing through the Levure script now and can see in fact the Preference stack 
is not being loaded. I’ve confirmed Preferences.bundle is at the location 
referenced in the script.

Can anyone steer me in a direction for a fix to this?

Thanks in advance,
Bob
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Re: Levure Dataview: hiding rows

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Thanks Bob - I’ll go ahead and do that. In the documentation for DataViews 
there is some mention of “hiding” and “HideRowControl”  - so I wanted to check 
that there is not a better way. For now I’ll keep the original data and then 
set the dvData of what I need to different filtered arrays.

    Schedule a call with me
On 1 Jul 2021, 16:12 +0100, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Delete the row data??
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jul 1, 2021, at 01:16 , David Bovill via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > I took a look at the code to try and work out if hiding rows is a thing / 
> > supported - but find only a private handler.
> >
> > Trevor what is the recommended technique for providing views of a DataView 
> > with hidden rows?
>
>
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Re: Levure Dataview: hiding rows

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Delete the row data??

Bob S


> On Jul 1, 2021, at 01:16 , David Bovill via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I took a look at the code to try and work out if hiding rows is a thing / 
> supported - but find only a private handler.
> 
> Trevor what is the recommended technique fir providing views of a DataView 
> with hidden rows?


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Re: Levure Dataview: hiding rows

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

I took a look at the code to try and work out if hiding rows is a thing / 
supported - but find only a private handler.

Trevor what is the recommended technique fir providing views of a DataView with 
hidden rows?

    Schedule a call with me
On 24 Jun 2021, 12:46 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> Im exploring how to hide a row in Levure Dataview. I can delete the row and 
> reset the dvData - but that seems overkill. On GitHub there is a mention of 
> HideRowControl?
>
> I’m running into the limits of the documentation for Dataview. Any ideas?
>
>     Schedule a call with me
> On 22 Jun 2021, 05:08 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> > Hah - hey thanks for that Sean. The recipe feels a bit like going to the 
> > government and filling in forms in triplicate to get your life back :)
> >
> >     Schedule a call with me
> > On 22 Jun 2021, 03:15 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
> > , wrote:
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > iOS 'fir' / 'for' issue.
> > >
> > > I don't know if this already got answered elsewhere in the thread. There
> > > are two easy fixes for this.
> > >
> > > 1. In Notes, type 'Fir always' then select the word 'Fir' and from the
> > > pop-up menu select 'replace...' then replace with 'For'. Delete the line 
> > > of
> > > text and repeat nine times.
> > > Now repeat this whole thing but use the phrase 'Once fir all'. If this
> > > corrects to 'for' right away then it is already fixed. Otherwise, continue
> > > using this phrase replacing 'fir' with 'for'.
> > >
> > > 2. If this still does not fix it, in
> > > Settings>General>Keyboard>TextReplacement>, add 'fir' with the replacement
> > > 'for'.
> > >
> > > (3. Or, go to Settings>General>Reset>ResetKeyboardDictionary, but that is
> > > the last resort.)
> > >
> > > All the best
> > >
> > > Sean
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 20:33, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I’d like to add an image background to a Dataview, so that is scrolls
> > > > alongside the rows.
> > > >
> > > > Any pointers?
> > > >
> > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > > On 11 Jun 2021, 18:01 +0100, David Bovill , 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > So I got visual feedback from drag-and-drop using the Levure DataView
> > > > following instructions at:
> > > > >
> > > > > • https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
> > > > >
> > > > > I add the following code to the DataView:
> > > > > > quote_type
> > > > > > on dragStart
> > > > > > set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
> > > > > > set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
> > > > > > set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata 
> > > > > > has
> > > > to be set to something.
> > > > > > end dragStart
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on ValidateRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pProposedRow, 
> > > > > > pProposedDropOperation
> > > > > > put "Dragging" && pProposedRow && pProposedDropOperation
> > > > > > return true
> > > > > > end ValidateRowDrop
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on AcceptRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pRow, pDropOperation
> > > > > > put "Dropped" && pRow && pDropOperation
> > > > > > end AcceptRowDrop
> > > > > >
> > > > > But the ValidateRowDrop message does not get sent, also I don’t get 
> > > > > any
> > > > visual feedback with a "drop indicator" (the line that shows you where 
> > > > the
> > > > drop will occur) - any idea?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > > > On 11 Jun 2021, 16:03 +0100, David Bovill ,
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure - as
> > > > Trevor is the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles 
> > > > for
> > > > rows is a must.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I
> > > > fi

Levure Dataview: hiding rows

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Im exploring how to hide a row in Levure Dataview. I can delete the row and 
reset the dvData - but that seems overkill. On GitHub there is a mention of 
HideRowControl?

I’m running into the limits of the documentation for Dataview. Any ideas?

    Schedule a call with me
On 22 Jun 2021, 05:08 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> Hah - hey thanks for that Sean. The recipe feels a bit like going to the 
> government and filling in forms in triplicate to get your life back :)
>
>     Schedule a call with me
> On 22 Jun 2021, 03:15 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
> , wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > iOS 'fir' / 'for' issue.
> >
> > I don't know if this already got answered elsewhere in the thread. There
> > are two easy fixes for this.
> >
> > 1. In Notes, type 'Fir always' then select the word 'Fir' and from the
> > pop-up menu select 'replace...' then replace with 'For'. Delete the line of
> > text and repeat nine times.
> > Now repeat this whole thing but use the phrase 'Once fir all'. If this
> > corrects to 'for' right away then it is already fixed. Otherwise, continue
> > using this phrase replacing 'fir' with 'for'.
> >
> > 2. If this still does not fix it, in
> > Settings>General>Keyboard>TextReplacement>, add 'fir' with the replacement
> > 'for'.
> >
> > (3. Or, go to Settings>General>Reset>ResetKeyboardDictionary, but that is
> > the last resort.)
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 20:33, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I’d like to add an image background to a Dataview, so that is scrolls
> > > alongside the rows.
> > >
> > > Any pointers?
> > >
> > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > On 11 Jun 2021, 18:01 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> > > > So I got visual feedback from drag-and-drop using the Levure DataView
> > > following instructions at:
> > > >
> > > > • https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
> > > >
> > > > I add the following code to the DataView:
> > > > > quote_type
> > > > > on dragStart
> > > > > set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
> > > > > set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
> > > > > set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata has
> > > to be set to something.
> > > > > end dragStart
> > > > >
> > > > > on ValidateRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pProposedRow, 
> > > > > pProposedDropOperation
> > > > > put "Dragging" && pProposedRow && pProposedDropOperation
> > > > > return true
> > > > > end ValidateRowDrop
> > > > >
> > > > > on AcceptRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pRow, pDropOperation
> > > > > put "Dropped" && pRow && pDropOperation
> > > > > end AcceptRowDrop
> > > > >
> > > > But the ValidateRowDrop message does not get sent, also I don’t get any
> > > visual feedback with a "drop indicator" (the line that shows you where the
> > > drop will occur) - any idea?
> > > >
> > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > > On 11 Jun 2021, 16:03 +0100, David Bovill ,
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure - as
> > > Trevor is the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for
> > > rows is a must.
> > > > >
> > > > > NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I
> > > first got an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”. Ever since then all
> > > my devices seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct 
> > > this
> > > auto typing flaw?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > > > On 11 Jun 2021, 15:05 +0100, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > > > > Hi David,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am 11.06.2021 um 15:58 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is there a simple demo out there that shows how drag-reordering of
> > > rows in a dataview works? Is this feature experimental? Got a d

Re: Levure Dataview: adding a scrolling background

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Hah - hey thanks for that Sean. The recipe feels a bit like going to the 
government and filling in forms in triplicate to get your life back :)

    Schedule a call with me
On 22 Jun 2021, 03:15 +0100, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> iOS 'fir' / 'for' issue.
>
> I don't know if this already got answered elsewhere in the thread. There
> are two easy fixes for this.
>
> 1. In Notes, type 'Fir always' then select the word 'Fir' and from the
> pop-up menu select 'replace...' then replace with 'For'. Delete the line of
> text and repeat nine times.
> Now repeat this whole thing but use the phrase 'Once fir all'. If this
> corrects to 'for' right away then it is already fixed. Otherwise, continue
> using this phrase replacing 'fir' with 'for'.
>
> 2. If this still does not fix it, in
> Settings>General>Keyboard>TextReplacement>, add 'fir' with the replacement
> 'for'.
>
> (3. Or, go to Settings>General>Reset>ResetKeyboardDictionary, but that is
> the last resort.)
>
> All the best
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 20:33, David Bovill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I’d like to add an image background to a Dataview, so that is scrolls
> > alongside the rows.
> >
> > Any pointers?
> >
> >  Schedule a call with me
> > On 11 Jun 2021, 18:01 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> > > So I got visual feedback from drag-and-drop using the Levure DataView
> > following instructions at:
> > >
> > > • https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
> > >
> > > I add the following code to the DataView:
> > > > quote_type
> > > > on dragStart
> > > > set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
> > > > set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
> > > > set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata has
> > to be set to something.
> > > > end dragStart
> > > >
> > > > on ValidateRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pProposedRow, pProposedDropOperation
> > > > put "Dragging" && pProposedRow && pProposedDropOperation
> > > > return true
> > > > end ValidateRowDrop
> > > >
> > > > on AcceptRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pRow, pDropOperation
> > > > put "Dropped" && pRow && pDropOperation
> > > > end AcceptRowDrop
> > > >
> > > But the ValidateRowDrop message does not get sent, also I don’t get any
> > visual feedback with a "drop indicator" (the line that shows you where the
> > drop will occur) - any idea?
> > >
> > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > On 11 Jun 2021, 16:03 +0100, David Bovill ,
> > wrote:
> > > > Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure - as
> > Trevor is the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for
> > rows is a must.
> > > >
> > > > NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I
> > first got an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”. Ever since then all
> > my devices seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this
> > auto typing flaw?
> > > >
> > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > > On 11 Jun 2021, 15:05 +0100, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > > > Hi David,
> > > > >
> > > > > > Am 11.06.2021 um 15:58 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there a simple demo out there that shows how drag-reordering of
> > rows in a dataview works? Is this feature experimental? Got a deadline fir
> > Monday considering taking the plunge?
> > > > >
> > > > > Levite Dataview? 8-)
> > > > > Sure you do not mean LC datagrid?
> > > > >
> > > > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > > >
> > > > > No. :-D
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best
> > > > >
> > > > > Klaus
> > > > > --
> > > > > Klaus Major
> > > > > https://www.major-k.de
> > > > > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > > > > kl...@major-k.de
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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Re: Levure Dataview: adding a scrolling background

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi David,

iOS 'fir' / 'for' issue.

I don't know if this already got answered elsewhere in the thread. There
are two easy fixes for this.

1. In Notes, type 'Fir always' then select the word 'Fir' and from the
pop-up menu select 'replace...' then replace with 'For'. Delete the line of
text and repeat nine times.
Now repeat this whole thing but use the phrase 'Once fir all'. If this
corrects to 'for' right away then it is already fixed. Otherwise, continue
using this phrase replacing 'fir' with 'for'.

2. If this still does not fix it, in
Settings>General>Keyboard>TextReplacement>, add 'fir' with the replacement
'for'.

(3. Or, go to Settings>General>Reset>ResetKeyboardDictionary, but that is
the last resort.)

All the best

Sean


On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 20:33, David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I’d like to add an image background to a Dataview, so that is scrolls
> alongside the rows.
>
> Any pointers?
>
> Schedule a call with me
> On 11 Jun 2021, 18:01 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> > So I got visual feedback from drag-and-drop using the Levure DataView
> following instructions at:
> >
> > • https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
> >
> > I add the following code to the DataView:
> > > quote_type
> > > on dragStart
> > >  set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
> > >  set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
> > >  set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata has
> to be set to something.
> > > end dragStart
> > >
> > > on ValidateRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pProposedRow, pProposedDropOperation
> > >  put "Dragging" && pProposedRow && pProposedDropOperation
> > >  return true
> > > end ValidateRowDrop
> > >
> > > on AcceptRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pRow, pDropOperation
> > >  put "Dropped" && pRow && pDropOperation
> > > end AcceptRowDrop
> > >
> > But the ValidateRowDrop message does not get sent, also I don’t get any
> visual feedback with a "drop indicator" (the line that shows you where the
> drop will occur) - any idea?
> >
> > Schedule a call with me
> > On 11 Jun 2021, 16:03 +0100, David Bovill ,
> wrote:
> > > Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure -  as
> Trevor is the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for
> rows is a must.
> > >
> > > NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I
> first got an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”.  Ever since then all
> my devices seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this
> auto typing flaw?
> > >
> > > Schedule a call with me
> > > On 11 Jun 2021, 15:05 +0100, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > > Hi David,
> > > >
> > > > > Am 11.06.2021 um 15:58 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there a simple demo out there that shows how drag-reordering of
> rows in a dataview works? Is this feature experimental? Got a deadline fir
> Monday considering taking the plunge?
> > > >
> > > > Levite Dataview? 8-)
> > > > Sure you do not mean LC datagrid?
> > > >
> > > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > > >
> > > > No. :-D
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > >
> > > > Klaus
> > > > --
> > > > Klaus Major
> > > > https://www.major-k.de
> > > > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > > > kl...@major-k.de
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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Levure Dataview: adding a scrolling background

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

I’d like to add an image background to a Dataview, so that is scrolls alongside 
the rows.

Any pointers?

    Schedule a call with me
On 11 Jun 2021, 18:01 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> So I got visual feedback from drag-and-drop using the Levure DataView 
> following instructions at:
>
> • https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
>
> I add the following code to the DataView:
> > quote_type
> > on dragStart
> >  set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
> >  set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
> >  set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata has to 
> > be set to something.
> > end dragStart
> >
> > on ValidateRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pProposedRow, pProposedDropOperation
> >  put "Dragging" && pProposedRow && pProposedDropOperation
> >  return true
> > end ValidateRowDrop
> >
> > on AcceptRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pRow, pDropOperation
> >  put "Dropped" && pRow && pDropOperation
> > end AcceptRowDrop
> >
> But the ValidateRowDrop message does not get sent, also I don’t get any 
> visual feedback with a "drop indicator" (the line that shows you where the 
> drop will occur) - any idea?
>
>     Schedule a call with me
> On 11 Jun 2021, 16:03 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> > Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure -  as Trevor 
> > is the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for rows is 
> > a must.
> >
> > NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I first 
> > got an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”.  Ever since then all my 
> > devices seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this 
> > auto typing flaw?
> >
> >     Schedule a call with me
> > On 11 Jun 2021, 15:05 +0100, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
> > , wrote:
> > > Hi David,
> > >
> > > > Am 11.06.2021 um 15:58 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode 
> > > > :
> > > >
> > > > Is there a simple demo out there that shows how drag-reordering of rows 
> > > > in a dataview works? Is this feature experimental? Got a deadline fir 
> > > > Monday considering taking the plunge?
> > >
> > > Levite Dataview? 8-)
> > > Sure you do not mean LC datagrid?
> > >
> > > >  Schedule a call with me
> > >
> > > No. :-D
> > >
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Klaus
> > > --
> > > Klaus Major
> > > https://www.major-k.de
> > > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > > kl...@major-k.de
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: Levure Dataview drag-reordering

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

So I got visual feedback from drag-and-drop using the Levure DataView following 
instructions at:

• https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview

I add the following code to the DataView:
> quote_type
> on dragStart
>  set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
>  set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
>  set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata has to be 
> set to something.
> end dragStart
>
> on ValidateRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pProposedRow, pProposedDropOperation
>  put "Dragging" && pProposedRow && pProposedDropOperation
>  return true
> end ValidateRowDrop
>
> on AcceptRowDrop pDraggingInfoA, pRow, pDropOperation
>  put "Dropped" && pRow && pDropOperation
> end AcceptRowDrop
>
But the ValidateRowDrop message does not get sent, also I don’t get any visual 
feedback with a "drop indicator" (the line that shows you where the drop will 
occur) - any idea?

    Schedule a call with me
On 11 Jun 2021, 16:03 +0100, David Bovill , wrote:
> Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure -  as Trevor is 
> the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for rows is a 
> must.
>
> NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I first got 
> an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”.  Ever since then all my devices 
> seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this auto typing 
> flaw?
>
>     Schedule a call with me
> On 11 Jun 2021, 15:05 +0100, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
> , wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > > Am 11.06.2021 um 15:58 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode 
> > > :
> > >
> > > Is there a simple demo out there that shows how drag-reordering of rows 
> > > in a dataview works? Is this feature experimental? Got a deadline fir 
> > > Monday considering taking the plunge?
> >
> > Levite Dataview? 8-)
> > Sure you do not mean LC datagrid?
> >
> > >  Schedule a call with me
> >
> > No. :-D
> >
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Klaus
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > https://www.major-k.de
> > https://www.major-k.de/bass
> > kl...@major-k.de
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: Levure Dataview drag-reordering

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

That's a good thing, yes? That means your Apple device is not phoning home. 

Bob S


> On Jun 11, 2021, at 08:24 , Stephen Barncard via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> yeah, Apple still thinks I live in Sevastopol, Ukraine!
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org


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Re: Levure Dataview drag-reordering

[Stephen Barncard via use-livecode]

yeah, Apple still thinks I live in Sevastopol, Ukraine!
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 8:08 AM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> > Am 11.06.2021 um 17:03 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure -  as
> Trevor is the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for
> rows is a must.
>
> ah, OK, I'll pass it over to Trevor!
>
> > NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I first
> got an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”.  Ever since then all my
> devices seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this
> auto typing flaw?
>
> Sorry, no idea fir this problem... 8-)
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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Re: Levure Dataview drag-reordering

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi David,

> Am 11.06.2021 um 17:03 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure -  as Trevor is 
> the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for rows is a 
> must.

ah, OK, I'll pass it over to Trevor!

> NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I first got 
> an iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”.  Ever since then all my devices 
> seem to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this auto typing 
> flaw?

Sorry, no idea fir this problem... 8-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Levure Dataview drag-reordering

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Yeah sorry about the typo - sent from mobile. I meant Levure -  as Trevor is 
the main man with the drag stuff and having differenr styles for rows is a must.

NB on the typo front I have a distant memory that aeons ago when I first got an 
iPhone I said yes to the spelling “fir”.  Ever since then all my devices seem 
to love this word - anyone have an idea how to correct this auto typing flaw?

    Schedule a call with me
On 11 Jun 2021, 15:05 +0100, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> > Am 11.06.2021 um 15:58 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode 
> > :
> >
> > Is there a simple demo out there that shows how drag-reordering of rows in 
> > a dataview works? Is this feature experimental? Got a deadline fir Monday 
> > considering taking the plunge?
>
> Levite Dataview? 8-)
> Sure you do not mean LC datagrid?
>
> >  Schedule a call with me
>
> No. :-D
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> preferences:
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Re: macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

You’re welcome Marty. Glad you like it.

Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:46 AM Marty Knapp via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You won’t regret it Bob, Levure is a great framework. A big thanks (again)
> to Trevor.
>
> Marty
>
> > On Oct 9, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Brilliant. I really need to move to Levure. I'm going to have another go
> at it.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:35 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
> >> helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
> >> Levure application. Here is the link:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary
> >>
> >> To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
> >> released today. Here are the release notes:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0
> >>
> >> If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
> >> take care of that if you have dropDMG:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG
> >>
> >> Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
> >> tools to create a DMG as well.
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trevor DeVore
> >> ScreenSteps
> >> www.screensteps.com
> >
>
>
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Re: macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

You won’t regret it Bob, Levure is a great framework. A big thanks (again) to 
Trevor.

Marty

> On Oct 9, 2019, at 9:39 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brilliant. I really need to move to Levure. I'm going to have another go at 
> it. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:35 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
>> helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
>> Levure application. Here is the link:
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary
>> 
>> To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
>> released today. Here are the release notes:
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0
>> 
>> If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
>> take care of that if you have dropDMG:
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG
>> 
>> Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
>> tools to create a DMG as well.
>> 
>> *
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore
>> 
>> -- 
>> Trevor DeVore
>> ScreenSteps
>> www.screensteps.com
> 


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Re: macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Brilliant. I really need to move to Levure. I'm going to have another go at it. 

Bob S


> On Oct 9, 2019, at 09:35 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
> helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
> Levure application. Here is the link:
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary
> 
> To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
> released today. Here are the release notes:
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0
> 
> If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
> take care of that if you have dropDMG:
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG
> 
> Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
> tools to create a DMG as well.
> 
> *
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com


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macOS Notarization helper for Levure

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi all,

After reading the article by Matthias on notarization* I put together a
helper for Levure that will notarize a DMG image when you package your
Levure application. Here is the link:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-macos_notary

To use it you will need to update to version 0.9.2 of Levure which I
released today. Here are the release notes:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases/tag/v0.9.2.0

If you need help creating a DMG of your app then the dropDMG helper can
take care of that if you have dropDMG:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dropDMG

Of course, someone could write a helper that uses Apple's command line
tools to create a DMG as well.

*
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: [ANN]CRON - a library for Levure

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Levurithans! I like it! 

Bob S


> On Jun 12, 2019, at 13:38 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Calling all Levurithans and anyone who wants to break some code:  


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[ANN]CRON - a library for Levure

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Calling all Levurithans and anyone who wants to break some code:  Mikey's
CRON library is now up on Github.  This version is intended for use with
Levure projects.  CRON allows you to schedule tasks for LC to execute.  We
use it to regularly update mobile devices, inventory spreadsheets, and ERP
software.
Please be gentle, but make it better, either through suggestions or pull
requests.

https://github.com/macMikey/mikeys-cron-library

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure Dataview Question

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 1:41 PM David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is there built in support for drag- reordering of rows?
>

There are some APIs for helping with drag reordering. They are not
currently documented though.

The following code will create a drag image from one of the rows and turn
on tracking so that a horizontal bar appears within the DataView where the
drop will occur.

```
on dragStart
  set the dvDragImageRow of me to item 1 of the dvHilitedRows of me
  set the dvTrackDragReorder[the dvHilitedRows of me] of me to true
  set the dragData["private"] to the dvHilitedRows of me # dragdata has to
be set to something.
end dragStart
```

The DataView will then send a `DragReorderRows` message when the drop
occurs. Since the DataView doesn't know anything about your data source it
is up to the developer to update the data source and refresh the view.

The `DragReorderRows` handler looks like this:

```
command DragReorderRows pRowsBeingDragged, pMoveToRow, pDroppedAfterRow
  put "pRowsBeingDragged:" && pRowsBeingDragged & cr & \
"pMoveToRow:" && pMoveToRow & cr & \
"pDroppedAfterRow:" && pDroppedAfterRow
end DragReorderRows
```

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
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Re: Levure Dataview Question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

You might want to open an issue at
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/issues

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 7:24 AM David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes would be good to know. I've seen demos of drag- reordering, and
> scripted a few experiments - but seeing that work on mobile for something
> as visually complex as a data grid (or Levure dataview) I've no seen.
>
> My suspicion is that that sort of visual drag drop animated feedback is
> best done in HTML. But with the steady progress in accelerated rendering
> and widgets perhaps it is possible to acheive the same level of quality
> using native Livecode. Would be good to see a demo
>
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 at 23:14, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > WHOOPS! Dataview. Sorry I thought Datagrid. It's late.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 29, 2019, at 16:12 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > If there is I'd like to know. I created a couple arrows that sit to the
> > left of the datagrid. Any time you select a row, the grid sends a message
> > to the group and moves the arror group adjacent to it. Obviously,
> clicking
> > up or down relocates that row.
> > >
> > > You can just see why drag-drop reordering might not be useful.
> Datagrids
> > have a sort function, so it would have to be that if you drag-reorder
> > something, the sort for that datagrid would have to be turned off. That
> > would mean you would have to keep turning it back on when you repopulated
> > the grid.
> > >
> > > Bob S
> >
> >
> > ___
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-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure Dataview Question

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Yes would be good to know. I've seen demos of drag- reordering, and
scripted a few experiments - but seeing that work on mobile for something
as visually complex as a data grid (or Levure dataview) I've no seen.

My suspicion is that that sort of visual drag drop animated feedback is
best done in HTML. But with the steady progress in accelerated rendering
and widgets perhaps it is possible to acheive the same level of quality
using native Livecode. Would be good to see a demo

On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 at 23:14, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> WHOOPS! Dataview. Sorry I thought Datagrid. It's late.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Mar 29, 2019, at 16:12 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If there is I'd like to know. I created a couple arrows that sit to the
> left of the datagrid. Any time you select a row, the grid sends a message
> to the group and moves the arror group adjacent to it. Obviously, clicking
> up or down relocates that row.
> >
> > You can just see why drag-drop reordering might not be useful. Datagrids
> have a sort function, so it would have to be that if you drag-reorder
> something, the sort for that datagrid would have to be turned off. That
> would mean you would have to keep turning it back on when you repopulated
> the grid.
> >
> > Bob S
>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Levure Dataview Question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

WHOOPS! Dataview. Sorry I thought Datagrid. It's late. 

Bob S


> On Mar 29, 2019, at 16:12 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If there is I'd like to know. I created a couple arrows that sit to the left 
> of the datagrid. Any time you select a row, the grid sends a message to the 
> group and moves the arror group adjacent to it. Obviously, clicking up or 
> down relocates that row. 
> 
> You can just see why drag-drop reordering might not be useful. Datagrids have 
> a sort function, so it would have to be that if you drag-reorder something, 
> the sort for that datagrid would have to be turned off. That would mean you 
> would have to keep turning it back on when you repopulated the grid. 
> 
> Bob S


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Re: Levure Dataview Question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

If there is I'd like to know. I created a couple arrows that sit to the left of 
the datagrid. Any time you select a row, the grid sends a message to the group 
and moves the arror group adjacent to it. Obviously, clicking up or down 
relocates that row. 

You can just see why drag-drop reordering might not be useful. Datagrids have a 
sort function, so it would have to be that if you drag-reorder something, the 
sort for that datagrid would have to be turned off. That would mean you would 
have to keep turning it back on when you repopulated the grid. 

Bob S


> On Mar 29, 2019, at 11:40 , David Bovill via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there built in support for drag- reordering of rows?


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Levure Dataview Question

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Is there built in support for drag- reordering of rows?
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Re: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:28 AM Trevor DeVore 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:55 PM Trevor DeVore 
> wrote:
> I've added another DataView helper named "DataView Database Cursor Helper"
> and updated the demo app. This helper adds a `dvCursor` property to a
> DataView along with a number of other properties. You open a database
> cursor, assign it to the DataView, and then the DataView will automatically
> move through the cursor in order to display the rows the user is currently
> looking at. Fast and efficient, even for large result sets.
>

I added one other DataView Tree example to the demo. It allows you to
browse the mainstacks in the IDE much like the Project Browser.

https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 3:05 PM JJS via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks very much for your clear reply Trevor.
>
> And i'd like to thank you for your great contributions.
>

You are welcome.


> Given the fact we can always "roll back" , i can give it a try on a
> project and see how it goes.
>
> I was especially interested in the Dataview as perhaps it is faster and
> may scroll smoother than the DG2.
>

I haven't done any comparison tests myself. I would be interested to hear
how it goes. LiveCode still needs to add a new feature that will improve
scrolling speed in any DG-like control. I don't know what the timeline is
for that though.


> (and who knows Levure might be adopted by LC to add as an optional way
> of working)


LiveCode already recommends it to development teams. See this page on their
website:

https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/levure/

-- 
Trevor DeVore
CTO - ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[JJS via use-livecode]

Thanks very much for your clear reply Trevor.

And i'd like to thank you for your great contributions.

Given the fact we can always "roll back" , i can give it a try on a 
project and see how it goes.


I was especially interested in the Dataview as perhaps it is faster and 
may scroll smoother than the DG2.


Have a good weekend !

(and who knows Levure might be adopted by LC to add as an optional way 
of working)


Op 4-1-2019 om 19:51 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 12:12 PM JJS via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Curious about some things.

Can this dataview do the same things as the datagrid?

Like Form with images and fields on a row via row template or similar?


Yes. Row templates use the same concept as DataGrids.



Does it has scroller for mobile? or has it to be created like with DG1
and other groups?


The scroller for mobile is built in. You can see the code in the
`preOpenControl` message:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/master/dataview_behavior.livecodescript#L68



   l hesitate on using a lot of 3rd party tools, support could be stopped
anytime, and if you then depend on it...

We already depend on LC.


That is a valid concern and one that I share myself. The tools that I
release are open source and there is no official support for them. Given my
responsibilities at my company I have chosen not to sell or officially
support contributions I make available to the LiveCode community. I do,
however, want to contribute non-proprietary work I do to the community so
that we can all make better apps. I have chosen to do that through making
the code available on GitHub and using the MIT license. I also try to
document them as best as I can given the time I have available. Everyone
has full access to the source code and others can contribute to the source
code. For example, three other people have contributed to Levure besides
myself. They contribute by helping with docs, submitting code updates, and
reporting issues. You can see the list of contributors here:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/graphs/contributors



Like i like to give levure a try, but also hesitate, can i turn back to
the "normal" way of building an app?


You can always go back to how you were developing your apps previously. How
much "unwinding" would need to be done depends on how many changes you make
to your app in order to adopt everything that Levure has to offer.

Regarding what is "normal" – Outside of apps that only use a handful of
stack files, I honestly don't know that there is a "normal" way of building
an app in LiveCode. I have seen a lot of different organizational
approaches over the years. Since LiveCode doesn't have a "project" concept
it seems that everyone tries to create their own version of what a project
should be. At least with Levure you are using a well-documented system
whose source code is available and that is at least being used by some
other people.

Let me know if you have any further questions.



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Re: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 12:12 PM JJS via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Curious about some things.

Can this dataview do the same things as the datagrid?
>
> Like Form with images and fields on a row via row template or similar?
>

Yes. Row templates use the same concept as DataGrids.


> Does it has scroller for mobile? or has it to be created like with DG1
> and other groups?
>

The scroller for mobile is built in. You can see the code in the
`preOpenControl` message:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/blob/master/dataview_behavior.livecodescript#L68


>   l hesitate on using a lot of 3rd party tools, support could be stopped
> anytime, and if you then depend on it...
>
> We already depend on LC.
>

That is a valid concern and one that I share myself. The tools that I
release are open source and there is no official support for them. Given my
responsibilities at my company I have chosen not to sell or officially
support contributions I make available to the LiveCode community. I do,
however, want to contribute non-proprietary work I do to the community so
that we can all make better apps. I have chosen to do that through making
the code available on GitHub and using the MIT license. I also try to
document them as best as I can given the time I have available. Everyone
has full access to the source code and others can contribute to the source
code. For example, three other people have contributed to Levure besides
myself. They contribute by helping with docs, submitting code updates, and
reporting issues. You can see the list of contributors here:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/graphs/contributors


> Like i like to give levure a try, but also hesitate, can i turn back to
> the "normal" way of building an app?
>

You can always go back to how you were developing your apps previously. How
much "unwinding" would need to be done depends on how many changes you make
to your app in order to adopt everything that Levure has to offer.

Regarding what is "normal" – Outside of apps that only use a handful of
stack files, I honestly don't know that there is a "normal" way of building
an app in LiveCode. I have seen a lot of different organizational
approaches over the years. Since LiveCode doesn't have a "project" concept
it seems that everyone tries to create their own version of what a project
should be. At least with Levure you are using a well-documented system
whose source code is available and that is at least being used by some
other people.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
CTO - ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[JJS via use-livecode]

Curious about some things.

Can this dataview do the same things as the datagrid?

Like Form with images and fields on a row via row template or similar?

Does it has scroller for mobile? or has it to be created like with DG1 
and other groups?



 l hesitate on using a lot of 3rd party tools, support could be stopped 
anytime, and if you then depend on it...


We already depend on LC.

Like i like to give levure a try, but also hesitate, can i turn back to 
the "normal" way of building an app?


Thanks.

Op 4-1-2019 om 18:28 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:55 PM Trevor DeVore 
wrote:


Over the holiday break I took time to package up some UI controls I use in
my own projects and make them available as helpers for Levure apps*. The
controls are named "DataView" and "DataView Tree". The DataView is a
leaner, more efficient DataGrid Form. It allows you to efficiently display
highly customized rows of data on desktop and mobile. The DataGrid Tree is
built on top of the DataView and works with a tree structure.


I've added another DataView helper named "DataView Database Cursor Helper"
and updated the demo app. This helper adds a `dvCursor` property to a
DataView along with a number of other properties. You open a database
cursor, assign it to the DataView, and then the DataView will automatically
move through the cursor in order to display the rows the user is currently
looking at. Fast and efficient, even for large result sets.

Demo: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo

DataView Database Cursor Helper:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-database_dbcursor



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Re: DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:55 PM Trevor DeVore 
wrote:

>
> Over the holiday break I took time to package up some UI controls I use in
> my own projects and make them available as helpers for Levure apps*. The
> controls are named "DataView" and "DataView Tree". The DataView is a
> leaner, more efficient DataGrid Form. It allows you to efficiently display
> highly customized rows of data on desktop and mobile. The DataGrid Tree is
> built on top of the DataView and works with a tree structure.
>

I've added another DataView helper named "DataView Database Cursor Helper"
and updated the demo app. This helper adds a `dvCursor` property to a
DataView along with a number of other properties. You open a database
cursor, assign it to the DataView, and then the DataView will automatically
move through the cursor in order to display the rows the user is currently
looking at. Fast and efficient, even for large result sets.

Demo: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo

DataView Database Cursor Helper:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-database_dbcursor

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
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DataView and DataView Tree Levure Helpers

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi folks,

Over the holiday break I took time to package up some UI controls I use in
my own projects and make them available as helpers for Levure apps*. The
controls are named "DataView" and "DataView Tree". The DataView is a
leaner, more efficient DataGrid Form. It allows you to efficiently display
highly customized rows of data on desktop and mobile. The DataGrid Tree is
built on top of the DataView and works with a tree structure.

I've prepared a demo project with examples of each type of control. Here
are the github repos for the demo project and the controls themselves.

Demo Github repo: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo
DataView Github repo: https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
DataView Tree Github repo:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree

I have also posted a video which walks through the demo project:

https://youtu.be/euIHj1Qrokk

While there is still work to do on the documentation, the demo stack can
help the motivated developer start using the controls in their own projects.

* Of course the code will work in apps that don't use the Levure framework.
You just need to integrate all of the stacks and scripts into your app
manually.

-- 
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ScreenSteps
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Sandbox - a Levure Helper for working with files in the macOS sandbox

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi,

I've posted a new Levure helper on GitHub called "sandbox". It adds support
for working with file references across multiple app sessions in the macOS
sandbox. It requires LiveCode 9 as it uses the Foreign Function Interface
(aka FFI) to wrap Objective-C APIs.

If you distribute your apps through the Mac App Store then it is required
that you sandbox your application. When an application is sandboxed the
user has to give you explicit permission to open any files that reside
outside of your applications container. For example, a user can do this by
selecting a file using the `answer file` dialog or dragging a file onto
your application. Your application will then have permission to access that
file for the rest of the app session.

The next time your application launches, however, your application will not
have permission to open the files again unless you implement
security-scoped bookmarks and security-scoped urls. The helper uses an LCS
library wrapped around an LCB extension to try and hide the complexity.

To learn more visit the GitHub page:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-sandbox

If you don't use Levure but are interested in the LCB FFI code here is a
direct link to that file:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-sandbox/blob/master/macos_sandbox.lcb

-- 
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Leveraging LCB's Foreign Function Interface in Levure

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi all [sending again to the right list],

I uploaded a screencast last night discussing how Levure is using LCB's
Foreign Function Interface (FFI) that was introduced in LC9.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TW5ArazTrc

-- 
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App Updater Helper for Levure

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi,

I've been working on the App Updater helper for Levure. The goal is to make
automatic updating of Levure applications really straightforward. The
helper leverages Sparkle on macOS and WinSparkle on Windows (the two
desktop platforms I develop for). I used the Foreign Function Interface
(FFI) in LiveCode Builder (LCB) to incorporate Sparkle and WinSparkle.

Here are the relevant links. The README has all of the instructions. The
release page has the downloadable files. I would be interested in hearing
from anybody who tries to implement this in their own application.

Project:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-app_updater

Release page:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-app_updater/releases

Levure:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure

What is a Levure helper?
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki/helpers

For those who might want to incorporate Sparkle or WinSparkle in their app
but don't use Levure here are links to the individual GitHub repos:

Sparkle: https://github.com/trevordevore/lc-sparkle

WinSparkle: https://github.com/trevordevore/lc-winsparkle

Note: This same announcement was posted in the forums as well:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=108=31571

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 4:19 AM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Trevor,
>
> wonderful, it works! Thanks a lot for looking into it.
>

 You’re welcome. I’ve added the change to the master branch.


> Now I am at risk to get addicted to Levure though.
>

I hope you enjoy using it!

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Ralf Bitter via use-livecode]

Hi Trevor,

wonderful, it works! Thanks a lot for looking into it.
Now I am at risk to get addicted to Levure though.


Ralf



> On 7. Jun 2018, at 23:02, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Try changing line 507 (or thereabouts) in `levure.livecodescript` to the
> following:
> 
> ```
> if the platform is "macos" then
>  send "levureFinishLoadingApplication" to me in 10 milliseconds
> else
>  levureFinishLoadingApplication
> end if
> ```
> 
> In my tests this removes the flicker without breaking the macOS behavior.
> If it works for you then I will submit a fix to the master branch of Levure.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com <http://www.screensteps.com/>

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Re: Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Unfortunately I am observing an annoying screen flicker
> during the startup sequence while the UI stack is opened
> and the Levure standalone is closed.
> The iOS splash screen, as defined in settings, is shown,
> then for a fraction of a second the screen is black just before
> the UI stack becomes visible. This happens not only in the
> simulator but on a real device (iPad Pro) too.
>
> Did tests using a very simple UI stack, no code included, just
> one card showing an image which is the same as the splash
> screen so that the transition from the splash screen to the
> UI stack should not be noticeable.


I've tracked down what is causing the flicker.

1) When the `startup` message is received the
`levureInitializeAndRunApplication` is called. This handler loads your
configuration files.
2) Next, the `levureRunApplication` handler is called in time (`0
milliseconds`).
3) `levureRunApplication` processes command line arguments and dispatches
the `InitializeApplication` message to your app. It then calls
`levureFinishLoadingApplication` in time (`10 milliseconds`).
4) `levureFinishLoadingApplication ` dispatches `OpenApplication` to your
application. This is where you display the "testUI" stack of your app.

The flicker occurs due to the `send in time` that occurs in step 3,
`levureRunApplication`. I just did a test where I called
`levureFinishLoadingApplication` inline and the flicker goes away. So now
 the only issue is to find a fix and I think there is an easy one.

In the comments I made for myself in the source code it says that the
reason `levureFinishLoadingApplication` is called in time is so that
appleEvents can be sent before the application is loaded. This allows URLs
that launched application to be tucked away in "process url" levure
property and used in `OpenApplication`. Since appleEvents only exist on
macOS `in time` only needs to be used on macOS.

Try changing line 507 (or thereabouts) in `levure.livecodescript` to the
following:

```
if the platform is "macos" then
  send "levureFinishLoadingApplication" to me in 10 milliseconds
else
  levureFinishLoadingApplication
end if
```

In my tests this removes the flicker without breaking the macOS behavior.
If it works for you then I will submit a fix to the master branch of Levure.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:57 PM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> thanks a lot for offering your help. The test project
> to demonstrate the issue is available at:
>
> https://spideroak.com/browse/share/soRabit/trevorSharing


I’ve go the file Ralf. I’ll take a look at it tomorrow and let you know
what I find out.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Ralf Bitter via use-livecode]

Hi Trevor,

thanks a lot for offering your help. The test project
to demonstrate the issue is available at:


https://spideroak.com/browse/share/soRabit/trevorSharing

Ralf

> On 5. Jun 2018, at 21:15, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can you upload a test stack for me to look at? If it is easy for me to
> replicate I should be able to figure out what is going on.


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Re: Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Currently I am developing an iOS app for iPad using
> Trevor DeVore’s awesome Levure framework.
>

I’m glad you like it.


> Unfortunately I am observing an annoying screen flicker
> during the startup sequence while the UI stack is opened
> and the Levure standalone is closed.
> The iOS splash screen, as defined in settings, is shown,
> then for a fraction of a second the screen is black just before
> the UI stack becomes visible. This happens not only in the
> simulator but on a real device (iPad Pro) too.
>
>
Can you upload a test stack for me to look at? If it is easy for me to
replicate I should be able to figure out what is going on.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Levure - flicker prior to displaying UI stack on iOS

[Ralf Bitter via use-livecode]

Currently I am developing an iOS app for iPad using
Trevor DeVore’s awesome Levure framework.

Unfortunately I am observing an annoying screen flicker
during the startup sequence while the UI stack is opened
and the Levure standalone is closed.
The iOS splash screen, as defined in settings, is shown,
then for a fraction of a second the screen is black just before
the UI stack becomes visible. This happens not only in the
simulator but on a real device (iPad Pro) too.

Did tests using a very simple UI stack, no code included, just
one card showing an image which is the same as the splash
screen so that the transition from the splash screen to the
UI stack should not be noticeable.

Probably this is not a Levure issue, may be this is the way
splash stack project setups behave on iOS.

Anyway, does anybody know how this flicker can be avoided?
Would be a great pity if I would have to ditch the Levure route.


Ralf


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> The only way I can see for that to be a bad thing is if it became the
> new and ONLY way to develop in Livecode. So long as they are options,
> I do not see what all the fuss is about.

Amen, brother.  Options are liberating, requirements are limiting.

My only fuss is to make sure the breadth of options remains wide, and 
that the simplest are invitingly presented as the entry point for new 
scripters.


Those who identify as pro devs looking to save time on GUIs can find 
their way beyond a beginner's guidance, as long as they're motivated to 
do so by having seen great examples (don't get me started about what 
I've seen in the Android app store).


But the beginner knows nothing, so we want to tell the most inviting 
tale, to guide them into a story of the shortest path they've ever 
imagined between conceiving of an app and handing a standalone of it to 
a friend.


This is a story LiveCode can tell uniquely well, provided we aim to be 
good storytellers.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The only way I can see for that to be a bad thing is if it became the new and 
ONLY way to develop in Livecode. So long as they are options, I do not see what 
all the fuss is about. 

Bob S


> On Feb 22, 2018, at 13:38 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good rant.  I had a similar reflection this morning reading a forum post
> in which Mark Wieder was waxing about the benefits of declaring
> variables.  It got me thinking:
> 
>  Variable declaration
> + coded descriptions of objects rather than laying them out visually
> + separation of code from UI
> = an ever more C-like workflow.
> 
> If these practices were the norm back when many of us got started, we
> might have just taken up C.  Or if we prefer more typing, Pascal. :)


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:
> Richard wrote:
>> Mike Kerner wrote:
>>> The ST integration is one of the things that is really slick about
>>> Levure.
>>
>> "ST"?
>>...
>> "Space Telescope"?  "SuperTux"?  "Starship Trooper"?
>>
>> Any of those integrations would be awesome.
>
> Integration for Starship Troopers is still in beta.

I'm anxious to get my hands on it, as I'll need for for my new widget 
library, Perpetual Changelog. ;)



Graham Samuel wrote:
> Just read in Trevor’s reply to me - it’s Sublime Text.

Ah, right. Of course.  Thanks.  I hear it's a nice editor.

UDAs can be confusing.


> (Rant-style observation: I see really that what the whole Levure thing
> is doing is moving towards a more industrial-scale development context
> for LiveCode. This is great if you need it. In the past I worked on
> (for my sins, even tried to manage) software development projects with
> more than 50 participants. In those days we had pretty lousy tools for
> version control etc. I do appreciate that such things have moved on
> and are an essential part of modern team development. In the past, LC
> and its predecessors, including especially HyperCard, were conceived
> as one-man-band type of development tools, I think. There are still a
> lot of people like that out there, and I admit to being one. This is
> not to say we’re all hobbyists - some of us are certainly developing
> stuff that we believe will be seen as professional by paying users,
> but we do not operate in that industrial context. All development
> needs discipline, sure, but individual developers do have to consider
> the cost in labour of committing to a new and different way of doing
> things, IMHO. Rant ends)

Good rant.  I had a similar reflection this morning reading a forum post 
in which Mark Wieder was waxing about the benefits of declaring 
variables.  It got me thinking:


  Variable declaration
+ coded descriptions of objects rather than laying them out visually
+ separation of code from UI
= an ever more C-like workflow.

If these practices were the norm back when many of us got started, we 
might have just taken up C.  Or if we prefer more typing, Pascal. :)


Today, the logical choice would be JavaScript, no longer just the only 
language in browsers but also great on servers and even some native 
mobile and desktop app packagers.  Many of the benefits of C but with 
the sort of live coding scripters enjoy.


While there are some nice things unique to xTalks as a language family 
(esp. the under-appreciated value of having GUI objects as native 
language elements rather than tossed in after the fact from completely 
separate third-party frameworks as though making applications is somehow 
an afterthought), the real allure of The xTalk Way is the whole gestalt, 
including the secret charm of binary stack files, and how it shapes a 
very different way of working.


You can make something useful, ship that one file to someone else, and 
they have something useful - no assembly, no compilation process, no 
folders full of tiny files to sift through.  Just make, share, enjoy a 
single simple file.


We still have that.  And I hope we never lose that as an option.

But now we also have other options available to us, which open up many 
more doors than could be possible without.


So whatever process you use, if you're having fun and your users are 
having fun, keep doing it.


And if you need to bring in other developers, now you can more easily 
than before.


And if your clients demand managing the code base in Git, no problem.

The simplicity of HyperCard will never be matched, but not so much 
because of design, but because needs have changed since 1987.  Computing 
went from being a fringe hobby to achieving multi-device ubiquity.  Our 
collective knowledge of computing systems, and our expectations of what 
we want from them, have expanded along the way.


With the world of options opening up across all of software development, 
and in our LiveCode world along with it, we can dream a wider range of 
more interesting dreams than ever before.


If I have any concern at all it's for the UX, the tender loving care 
that can only come from eyes unjaded by years of staring at C compilers, 
to keep the LC experience as clean and inviting as it can be for the 
next generation of xTalkers.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:11 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Just read in Trevor’s reply to me - it’s Sublime Text. No, I’d never heard
> of it either. Myself, I have been happy editing with what comes with LC,
> which probably goes to show something a bit negative about me.
>

Why would it be a negative? If it works for your needs then that is great.
You can get all of your work done in a single location.


> (Rant-style observation: I see really that what the whole Levure thing is
> doing is moving towards a more industrial-scale development context for
> LiveCode.


FWIW I am the only developer that regularly contributes to my apps built on
top of Levure. That won’t always be the case and when the time comes it
will be easy to add people. But version control isn’t synonymous with
industrial-scale. Nor is using folders to organize your Livecode project
files rather than a monolithic binary stack.

Using version control provides quality control in my workflow and makes it
easier to fix mistakes. For example:

* No code change ever gets into my project without being reviewed at least
twice. Once while I’m writing it, and a second time when I’m committing the
changes I’ve made to Git. I’ve caught many mistakes through this review
process.
* If I happen to make a change in my software that unintentionally breaks
something I can review the Git commit and see all of the changes I made. I
can then easily reverse those changes.
* I have a complete audit trail of all changes made so I can see where I
might have introduced issues.

In addition I can work on multiple new features at once, yet easily deploy
a hot fix if a customer finds something that needs fixing right away.

Version control isn’t for everybody and may not be worth the hassle for
you. There is nothing wrong with that. But I wouldn’t dismiss it as being
something that only teams use.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Integration for Starship Troppers is still in beta. 

Bob S


> On Feb 22, 2018, at 09:09 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> "Space Telescope"?  "SuperTux"?  "Starship Trooper"?


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Just read in Trevor’s reply to me - it’s Sublime Text. No, I’d never heard of 
it either. Myself, I have been happy editing with what comes with LC, which 
probably goes to show something a bit negative about me.

(Rant-style observation: I see really that what the whole Levure thing is doing 
is moving towards a more industrial-scale development context for LiveCode. 
This is great if you need it. In the past I worked on (for my sins, even tried 
to manage) software development projects with more than 50 participants. In 
those days we had pretty lousy tools for version control etc. I do appreciate 
that such things have moved on and are an essential part of modern team 
development. In the past, LC and its predecessors, including especially 
HyperCard, were conceived as one-man-band type of development tools, I think. 
There are still a lot of people like that out there, and I admit to being one. 
This is not to say we’re all hobbyists - some of us are certainly developing 
stuff that we believe will be seen as professional by paying users, but we do 
not operate in that industrial context. All development needs discipline, sure, 
but individual developers do have to consider the cost in labour of committing 
to a new and different way of doing things, IMHO. Rant ends)

Back to the grindstone.

Graham

> On 22 Feb 2018, at 18:09, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mike Kerner wrote:
> > The ST integration is one of the things that is really slick about
> > Levure.
> 
> "ST"?
> 
> A quick Google search brought up this page of 173 possible meanings for that 
> acronym, so I feel I'm getting close.
> https://www.acronymfinder.com/ST.html
> 
> "Space Telescope"?  "SuperTux"?  "Starship Trooper"?
> 
> Any of those integrations would be awesome.
> 
> Hint?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Thanks for your patience, Trevor. I will stop tyre-kicking now and decide 
whether or not my particular project work merits taking the Levure plunge!

Graham

> On 22 Feb 2018, at 15:56, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> 2. When I’ve used behaviors myself, it’s to allow essentially the same
>> script to be used for many objects, with the extremely useful ability to
>> hang on to the local context: I once used behaviors for cells ina
>> spreadsheet-like display, for example - whereas in my current example, I
>> proposed that the Big Green Button was unique and wouldn’t want to share
>> its primary handler with anyone else (though of course it would probably
>> use some common library routines in any complicated set up). If in my
>> example there was a Big Red Button, it would have an entirely different
>> function from the Green one, so there would be no room for the shared code
>> a behavior provides. So the use of behaviors in this kind of setup looks
>> kind of forced to me. But perhaps I am overestimating the extent to which
>> behaviors come into the picture.
>> 
> 
> Whether or not it is forced depends on your goals.
> 
> I have two goals - manage my app using git and be able to edit all scripts
> in an external text editor (I use Sublime Text). If I don’t move the button
> behavior out into an SOS then it won’t play well in my text editor. As an
> example, two days ago I was cleaning out unused code in a project. In
> Sublime Text I searched my project for calls to a handler. The handler was
> called from a couple of button scripts inside of a binary LiveCode stack
> file (I had not converted every script in the stack to a SOS behavior). In
> the search results in Sublime Text I couldn’t see what the actual script
> was, just that a binary file had a reference to the string I was searching
> for. I want to be able to read the script. Also, if I end up changing the
> button script (I’ve been known to rename handlers if I want to clarify what
> it does) then I want my git history to show me exactly what changed. If I
> save the script as part of a binary stack I can’t see what changed. If I
> store the script in an SOS then I can.
> 
> 
>> Changing the subject a bit, I once wrote a very simple DC circuit
>> simulator, in which there were different components like a light bulb, a
>> motor, a buzzer etc. When the user ‘switched’ the circuit on (by clicking
>> on an object representing a switch), the program sent the same message -
>> “applyVoltage”-  to each object. Each object had its own applyVoltage
>> handler (method, in O-O parlance) for reacting to the circuit going live,
>> so the bulb lit up, the motor rotated etc. This is kind of the inverse of
>> the behavior idea - this is the same message being sent to multiple objects
>> rather than multiple objects using the same script. I wonder how a
>> Levure-framed app would deal with such a structure. Perhaps it wouldn’t
>> notice at all.
> 
> 
> Whether or not you use Levure would have no effect on how you solve this
> particular problem. Levure encourages the developer to organize your stacks
> using the file system and to organize stacks within folders based on how
> they are used (window, library, behavior, etc.). One benefit of following
> Levure’s suggestion is that your app becomes more VCS-friendly. How you
> organize objects on your cards or architect solutions to problems such as
> this falls outside the scope of Levure.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:
> The ST integration is one of the things that is really slick about
> Levure.

"ST"?

A quick Google search brought up this page of 173 possible meanings for 
that acronym, so I feel I'm getting close.

https://www.acronymfinder.com/ST.html

"Space Telescope"?  "SuperTux"?  "Starship Trooper"?

Any of those integrations would be awesome.

Hint?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

The ST integration is one of the things that is really slick about Levure.
Atom is a more polished editor, but you can configure ST to send a packet
to LC when you save an SOS.  Levure projects open a socket to listen for
that signal, and when it receives the signal, reloads the script you just
saved, so your edits are live.
Now if I could just get the indent rules working better in ST (or Atom) I'd
be even happier.
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

If you watch Trevor's youtube videos you will see he makes allowance for this. 
No need to behaviorize a script that will never change, and only applies to one 
object. You could, but no one says you have to. In fact, if you don't have a 
need for versioning, don't use a foreign text editor, don't share common code 
between multiple objects, and don't need the features a git repository can give 
you, then you don't need behaviors. I didn't start using them until I got tired 
of editing code in identical buttons in 15 different modules every time I had 
to change something. I don't particularly need Levure either for most of what 
it does, but I really like Sublime Text, and would like to use that if I could. 

Bob S


> On Feb 21, 2018, at 16:27 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It’s very late here, so a brief reply to a brief reply. I know about ‘the 
> target’. Believe it or not I also know about behaviours and can use them. But 
> if I have a Big Green Button in my UI, I want a handler which does something 
> if and only if the Big Green Button is clicked on. Obviously in my SOS I can 
> have some ‘universal’ code that says something like
> 
> if the target is “bigGreenButton” then
> do something related only to this particular object
> …
> 
> But isn’t that just making the whole thing more complicated than it need be?
> 
> Maybe I will understand this clearly in the morning - who knows?
> 
> Graham

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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 7:25 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> 2. When I’ve used behaviors myself, it’s to allow essentially the same
> script to be used for many objects, with the extremely useful ability to
> hang on to the local context: I once used behaviors for cells ina
> spreadsheet-like display, for example - whereas in my current example, I
> proposed that the Big Green Button was unique and wouldn’t want to share
> its primary handler with anyone else (though of course it would probably
> use some common library routines in any complicated set up). If in my
> example there was a Big Red Button, it would have an entirely different
> function from the Green one, so there would be no room for the shared code
> a behavior provides. So the use of behaviors in this kind of setup looks
> kind of forced to me. But perhaps I am overestimating the extent to which
> behaviors come into the picture.
>

Whether or not it is forced depends on your goals.

I have two goals - manage my app using git and be able to edit all scripts
in an external text editor (I use Sublime Text). If I don’t move the button
behavior out into an SOS then it won’t play well in my text editor. As an
example, two days ago I was cleaning out unused code in a project. In
Sublime Text I searched my project for calls to a handler. The handler was
called from a couple of button scripts inside of a binary LiveCode stack
file (I had not converted every script in the stack to a SOS behavior). In
the search results in Sublime Text I couldn’t see what the actual script
was, just that a binary file had a reference to the string I was searching
for. I want to be able to read the script. Also, if I end up changing the
button script (I’ve been known to rename handlers if I want to clarify what
it does) then I want my git history to show me exactly what changed. If I
save the script as part of a binary stack I can’t see what changed. If I
store the script in an SOS then I can.


> Changing the subject a bit, I once wrote a very simple DC circuit
> simulator, in which there were different components like a light bulb, a
> motor, a buzzer etc. When the user ‘switched’ the circuit on (by clicking
> on an object representing a switch), the program sent the same message -
> “applyVoltage”-  to each object. Each object had its own applyVoltage
> handler (method, in O-O parlance) for reacting to the circuit going live,
> so the bulb lit up, the motor rotated etc. This is kind of the inverse of
> the behavior idea - this is the same message being sent to multiple objects
> rather than multiple objects using the same script. I wonder how a
> Levure-framed app would deal with such a structure. Perhaps it wouldn’t
> notice at all.


Whether or not you use Levure would have no effect on how you solve this
particular problem. Levure encourages the developer to organize your stacks
using the file system and to organize stacks within folders based on how
they are used (window, library, behavior, etc.). One benefit of following
Levure’s suggestion is that your app becomes more VCS-friendly. How you
organize objects on your cards or architect solutions to problems such as
this falls outside the scope of Levure.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Jacque always dishes out common sense IMHO. Thanks for that. I would shield you 
from the flying fruit if I could.

I guess my heretical thinking is based on two ideas:

1. Setting the behavior of an object (my Big Green Button) looks just like 
scripting it to me: I mean for this to work, the object has to be qualified by 
a reference to something outside its local environment: OK, it’s not exactly 
code, but it seems to me philosophically similar. So the UI stack is tied, 
however lightly, to the SOS undergrowth.

2. When I’ve used behaviors myself, it’s to allow essentially the same script 
to be used for many objects, with the extremely useful ability to hang on to 
the local context: I once used behaviors for cells ina spreadsheet-like 
display, for example - whereas in my current example, I proposed that the Big 
Green Button was unique and wouldn’t want to share its primary handler with 
anyone else (though of course it would probably use some common library 
routines in any complicated set up). If in my example there was a Big Red 
Button, it would have an entirely different function from the Green one, so 
there would be no room for the shared code a behavior provides. So the use of 
behaviors in this kind of setup looks kind of forced to me. But perhaps I am 
overestimating the extent to which behaviors come into the picture.

Changing the subject a bit, I once wrote a very simple DC circuit simulator, in 
which there were different components like a light bulb, a motor, a buzzer etc. 
When the user ‘switched’ the circuit on (by clicking on an object representing 
a switch), the program sent the same message - “applyVoltage”-  to each object. 
Each object had its own applyVoltage handler (method, in O-O parlance) for 
reacting to the circuit going live, so the bulb lit up, the motor rotated etc. 
This is kind of the inverse of the behavior idea - this is the same message 
being sent to multiple objects rather than multiple objects using the same 
script. I wonder how a Levure-framed app would deal with such a structure. 
Perhaps it wouldn’t notice at all.

Graham

PS My UK spell checker **really** wants behavior to be behaviour, but this is 
not among its synonyms, regrettably.



> On 22 Feb 2018, at 06:20, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not a purist, I'd put the handler in the big green button. Especially if 
> it's short. There are no hard rules about this stuff.
> 
> I suppose I'll have to dodge flying fruit now.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
> On February 21, 2018 6:29:52 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> It’s very late here, so a brief reply to a brief reply. I know about ‘the 
>> target’. Believe it or not I also know about behaviours and can use them. 
>> But if I have a Big Green Button in my UI, I want a handler which does 
>> something if and only if the Big Green Button is clicked on. Obviously in my 
>> SOS I can have some ‘universal’ code that says something like
>> 
>> if the target is “bigGreenButton” then
>> do something related only to this particular object
>> …
>> 
>> But isn’t that just making the whole thing more complicated than it need be?
>> 
>> Maybe I will understand this clearly in the morning - who knows?
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 21 Feb 2018, at 22:33, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The target.
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:58 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS 
>>>> know what object has invoked them?
>>> 
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Jerry Jensen via use-livecode]

Me too.
.Jerry

> On Feb 21, 2018, at 9:20 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm not a purist, I'd put the handler in the big green button. Especially if 
> it's short. There are no hard rules about this stuff.
> 
> I suppose I'll have to dodge flying fruit now.



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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I'm not a purist, I'd put the handler in the big green button. Especially 
if it's short. There are no hard rules about this stuff.


I suppose I'll have to dodge flying fruit now.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On February 21, 2018 6:29:52 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
 wrote:


It’s very late here, so a brief reply to a brief reply. I know about ‘the 
target’. Believe it or not I also know about behaviours and can use them. 
But if I have a Big Green Button in my UI, I want a handler which does 
something if and only if the Big Green Button is clicked on. Obviously in 
my SOS I can have some ‘universal’ code that says something like


if the target is “bigGreenButton” then
 do something related only to this particular object
 …

But isn’t that just making the whole thing more complicated than it need be?

Maybe I will understand this clearly in the morning - who knows?

Graham

On 21 Feb 2018, at 22:33, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:


The target.

Bob S


On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:58 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
 wrote:


But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS know 
what object has invoked them?


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Graham,
You don't need universal code to make this happen.  What Trevor was talking
about yesterday was that he likes using universal handlers in card scripts
(or card behaviors in this case).  For your example all you have to do is
take the script of the big green button, make it a SOS, and assign that SOS
as the behavior of the big green button.  You don't have to have a behavior
shared between a bunch of objects.
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

It’s very late here, so a brief reply to a brief reply. I know about ‘the 
target’. Believe it or not I also know about behaviours and can use them. But 
if I have a Big Green Button in my UI, I want a handler which does something if 
and only if the Big Green Button is clicked on. Obviously in my SOS I can have 
some ‘universal’ code that says something like

if the target is “bigGreenButton” then
 do something related only to this particular object
 …

But isn’t that just making the whole thing more complicated than it need be?

Maybe I will understand this clearly in the morning - who knows?

Graham

> On 21 Feb 2018, at 22:33, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The target. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:58 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS know 
>> what object has invoked them?
> 
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Jerry Jensen via use-livecode]

The engine is what actually starts execution of the SOS - the engine knows who 
called. “me” is a keyword set up by the engine. In a behavior script it is the 
caller. Is this what you were wondering about or did I misunderstand?
.Jerry

> On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:58 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS know 
> what object has invoked them? I mean of course you can work out the caller, 
> but it’s much easier to say
> 
> on mouseUp
> doSomethingJustForMe(myCoordinates
> end mouseUp
> 
> than working it all out later, isn’t it?



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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS know 
what object has invoked them? I mean of course you can work out the caller, but 
it’s much easier to say

on mouseUp
doSomethingJustForMe(myCoordinates
end mouseUp

than working it all out later, isn’t it?

Doubtless this is a dumb question, but I told you I was confused.

Graham

> On 21 Feb 2018, at 18:59, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You do not have to have a single line of code in the .rev/.livecode file.
> You can have behaviors assigned to each object, card, and the stack.  Those
> behaviors would be assigned to script-only stack files (.livecodescript).
> The first line of a SOS is the word "script", then a name, enclosed in
> quotes.  That name does not have to be related to anything, or have any
> meaning.  After that first line would be the code/handlers, etc.
> If you like, you can consolidate your code into only a few SOS's, or you
> can have an SOS as the behavior for every single object.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> OK, i’m a bit confused. If we look at a non-faceless application, then the
>> user will be interacting with it via the UI. This means that stuff like
>> clicking and dragging has to be dealt with. I see that this can all be done
>> by a library that works out where the ‘mouseUp’ or whatever came from and
>> then handles what is needed to be done and sent back to the user, but can
>> there really be no code at all in the stack the user sees? What about a
>> game-like interface, where the movement of objects relative to one another
>> is something that has to be captured? I suppose what I’m saying is that if
>> the essence of the app is the interaction between the objects the user
>> sees, then abstracting the objects’ behaviour away from the primary
>> interface only has the merit that it’s better for version control, doesn’t
>> it? Or am I seeing it all wrong?
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 21 Feb 2018, at 01:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You can move as much or as little as you like.  I prefer to move
>> everything
>>> and use an external text editor whenever I want to edit code.  The .rev
>> or
>>> .livecode stack file for me, then has multiple cards with the layouts and
>>> the objects, but no code in it.  I also have taken to removing all
>>> substacks and making them separate, especially since in many cases those
>>> substacks are modules or libraries.  That makes version control of those
>>> submodules and libraries far simpler for me.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's
>> pronouncements
>>>>> with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a
>> universally
>>>>> understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept
>> of
>>>>> separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain
>>>>> **some** logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I
>>>> really
>>>>> mean code. What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack,
>> do
>>>>> people think? I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is going
>> to
>>>> be
>>>>> very different from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about
>>>> this,
>>>>> but I am not familiar with it.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> In Levure a UI stack is just a stack that is used as a window to
>> display a
>>>> user interface to the user. In LiveCode the term stack is overloaded. It
>>>> can be a library, a front script, a back script, or a stack that is
>>>> actually displays to the user. Actually it can be both a stack that
>>>> displays an interface to the user and a library/frontscript/
>> backscript).
>>>> So
>>>> Levure encourages you to organize your stacks based on how they are
>> used.
>>>> In Levure a UI stack will be added to the list of stackFiles property of
>>>> the main Levure app stack. This allows you to reference the stack by
>> name
>>>

Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 2/21/18 12:58 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS know 
what object has invoked them?


A behavior acts as though every object with the assigned behavior has 
that script copied into itself. That means that "me" always refers to 
the object with the behavior, and each instance of the behavior keeps 
its own separate script local variables. Without a behavior, you'd need 
to put a mouseUp handler that calls "doSomething" into each button, and 
doSomthing would live in a card or stack script. Then doSomething would 
have to get the name of the target to know the caller, and also keep 
track of any local variables independently.


I'm working with a project that uses a lot of script-only stacks. It 
uses a combination of embedded ("normal") scripts and SOS. Handlers that 
only apply to a single object or card are usually written into the stack 
or control as usual. Handlers that are used in more than one place are 
moved to SOS either as behaviors or libraries. Libraries work like 
stacks in use, behaviors can be shared among different objects. For 
example, we have a behavior that creates and manages a native scroller 
on mobile. Whenever we need a native scroller for a field, we assign 
that SOS as a behavior of the field. The field itself has no script, the 
behavior does it all.


From what I've read so far here, you don't actually have to convert 
everything to script-only stacks. You can convert some, or none, or all. 
I believe Trevor said that you can use other functions outside of the 
script management features -- for example, built-in functions that 
compile the app or do auto-update, etc. Your point about not needing SOS 
for a single developer is, I think, correct. But even if you're the only 
one working on a stack, you may still want to track changes and updates 
in a versioning system. Whatever you want to track, you'd convert to a 
SOS because versioning systems work only with text files.


I haven't made the move myself either, but I'm interested in what is 
possible so I've been following this thread. Don't feel bad about 
asking, some of us are lurking.



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

The target. 

Bob S


> On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:58 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS know 
> what object has invoked them?

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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

"me" in a behavior script is the calling object.
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> But if there’s no code in the UI stack, how do the handlers in the SOS
> know what object has invoked them? I mean of course you can work out the
> caller, but it’s much easier to say
>
> on mouseUp
> doSomethingJustForMe(myCoordinates
> end mouseUp
>
> than working it all out later, isn’t it?
>
> Doubtless this is a dumb question, but I told you I was confused.
>

Not dumb at all. You are right that attaching the mouseUp handler to the
object that receives the mouse click is easier. Where you are mistaken is
in your belief that the UI stack does contain code and the logic is not
handled in a library. The UI stack does in fact have code, it just happens
to be in behaviors that are script only stacks. Let me provide an example
of an About window which would be organized in the following file system
structure in Levure:

app/
  ui/
about/
  about.livecode
  behaviors/
card.livecodescript

Now assume that the about.livecode stack file has a field that shows the
version information and a button named “Acknowledgements” that opens a PDF
when you click on it.

The card.livecodescript is a SOS that is assigned to the behavior property
of card 1 in the about.livecode stack file. Any code in that
card.livecodescript SOS acts as if it is the actual code assigned to the
script property of card 1. The code just happens to live outside of
about.livecode.

So card.livecodescript can contain our primary handlers that do all of the
work:

```
on preOpenCard
  ShowVersion
end preOpenCard


command ShowVersion
  # Display current version in field
  …
end ShowVersion


command uiShowAcknowledgements
  # Launch PDF
  …
end uiShowAcknowledgements
```

The “Acknowledgements” button can now call the `uiShowAcknowledgements`
handler in the card script (which is really the card.livecodescript SOS
that is assigned to the behavior of the card).

```
on mouseUp
  uiShowAcknowledgements
end mouseUp
```

In the example above, the code in the button is actually assigned to the
script property of the “Acknowledgements” button and is part of the
about.livecode stack file. Not in some behavior. The code for the card
script is stored in a SOS that is assigned to the behavior property of the
card. This code lives outside of about.livecode stack file.

Now, you could move the “Acknowledgements” button code into a SOS as well.
In that case you would create a new SOS, move the script in the button to
the SOS, and then assign the SOS to the behavior property of the button.
Here is what the new file structure would look like:

app/
  ui/
about/
  about.livecode
  behaviors/
card.livecodescript
acknowledgement_button.livecodescript

You wouldn’t have to change the `on mouseUp` code at all because behavior
scripts act as if they are the actual script of the control they are
assigned to.

Hopefully that clarifies things a little bit.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

You do not have to have a single line of code in the .rev/.livecode file.
You can have behaviors assigned to each object, card, and the stack.  Those
behaviors would be assigned to script-only stack files (.livecodescript).
The first line of a SOS is the word "script", then a name, enclosed in
quotes.  That name does not have to be related to anything, or have any
meaning.  After that first line would be the code/handlers, etc.
If you like, you can consolidate your code into only a few SOS's, or you
can have an SOS as the behavior for every single object.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> OK, i’m a bit confused. If we look at a non-faceless application, then the
> user will be interacting with it via the UI. This means that stuff like
> clicking and dragging has to be dealt with. I see that this can all be done
> by a library that works out where the ‘mouseUp’ or whatever came from and
> then handles what is needed to be done and sent back to the user, but can
> there really be no code at all in the stack the user sees? What about a
> game-like interface, where the movement of objects relative to one another
> is something that has to be captured? I suppose what I’m saying is that if
> the essence of the app is the interaction between the objects the user
> sees, then abstracting the objects’ behaviour away from the primary
> interface only has the merit that it’s better for version control, doesn’t
> it? Or am I seeing it all wrong?
>
> Graham
>
> > On 21 Feb 2018, at 01:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > You can move as much or as little as you like.  I prefer to move
> everything
> > and use an external text editor whenever I want to edit code.  The .rev
> or
> > .livecode stack file for me, then has multiple cards with the layouts and
> > the objects, but no code in it.  I also have taken to removing all
> > substacks and making them separate, especially since in many cases those
> > substacks are modules or libraries.  That makes version control of those
> > submodules and libraries far simpler for me.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's
> pronouncements
> >>> with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a
> universally
> >>> understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept
> of
> >>> separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain
> >>> **some** logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I
> >> really
> >>> mean code. What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack,
> do
> >>> people think? I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is going
> to
> >> be
> >>> very different from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about
> >> this,
> >>> but I am not familiar with it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> In Levure a UI stack is just a stack that is used as a window to
> display a
> >> user interface to the user. In LiveCode the term stack is overloaded. It
> >> can be a library, a front script, a back script, or a stack that is
> >> actually displays to the user. Actually it can be both a stack that
> >> displays an interface to the user and a library/frontscript/
> backscript).
> >> So
> >> Levure encourages you to organize your stacks based on how they are
> used.
> >> In Levure a UI stack will be added to the list of stackFiles property of
> >> the main Levure app stack. This allows you to reference the stack by
> name
> >> (e.g. stack “MyStack”) without having to load all of the UI stacks into
> >> memory when the application starts up.
> >>
> >> My general rule is that I place all code that is specific to a specific
> UI
> >> stack in the behaviors attached to the stack, cards, and controls of
> that
> >> stack. Any code that is shared is pushed down into a library.
> >>
> >> The controls in my stacks have very little code. They simply call
> handlers
> >> that reside in the card or stack behaviors.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trevor DeVore
> >> ScreenSteps
> >> www.screensteps.com
> >> ___
> >> use-l

Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

OK, i’m a bit confused. If we look at a non-faceless application, then the user 
will be interacting with it via the UI. This means that stuff like clicking and 
dragging has to be dealt with. I see that this can all be done by a library 
that works out where the ‘mouseUp’ or whatever came from and then handles what 
is needed to be done and sent back to the user, but can there really be no code 
at all in the stack the user sees? What about a game-like interface, where the 
movement of objects relative to one another is something that has to be 
captured? I suppose what I’m saying is that if the essence of the app is the 
interaction between the objects the user sees, then abstracting the objects’ 
behaviour away from the primary interface only has the merit that it’s better 
for version control, doesn’t it? Or am I seeing it all wrong?

Graham

> On 21 Feb 2018, at 01:04, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You can move as much or as little as you like.  I prefer to move everything
> and use an external text editor whenever I want to edit code.  The .rev or
> .livecode stack file for me, then has multiple cards with the layouts and
> the objects, but no code in it.  I also have taken to removing all
> substacks and making them separate, especially since in many cases those
> substacks are modules or libraries.  That makes version control of those
> submodules and libraries far simpler for me.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's pronouncements
>>> with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a universally
>>> understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept of
>>> separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain
>>> **some** logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I
>> really
>>> mean code. What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack, do
>>> people think? I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is going to
>> be
>>> very different from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about
>> this,
>>> but I am not familiar with it.
>>> 
>> 
>> In Levure a UI stack is just a stack that is used as a window to display a
>> user interface to the user. In LiveCode the term stack is overloaded. It
>> can be a library, a front script, a back script, or a stack that is
>> actually displays to the user. Actually it can be both a stack that
>> displays an interface to the user and a library/frontscript/backscript).
>> So
>> Levure encourages you to organize your stacks based on how they are used.
>> In Levure a UI stack will be added to the list of stackFiles property of
>> the main Levure app stack. This allows you to reference the stack by name
>> (e.g. stack “MyStack”) without having to load all of the UI stacks into
>> memory when the application starts up.
>> 
>> My general rule is that I place all code that is specific to a specific UI
>> stack in the behaviors attached to the stack, cards, and controls of that
>> stack. Any code that is shared is pushed down into a library.
>> 
>> The controls in my stacks have very little code. They simply call handlers
>> that reside in the card or stack behaviors.
>> 
>> --
>> Trevor DeVore
>> ScreenSteps
>> www.screensteps.com
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

AFA the password protection goes, the traditional stack is only required
when you _distribute_ the app.  You do not need to store it that way.  When
you build a Levure app, it automatically creates a binary stack, installs
the code, and password protects it.  You get the best of both worlds:  On
your system and in your VCS you have the script as straight text, and when
you distribute it, you get encrypted.
You are absolutely correct that scripts that never change don't benefit
from version control (and really, for short scripts, the value of version
control is also limited).  In this case, the reason why I like to have this
code stored in SOS's is because if I ever accidentally change one of these
scripts, my git tool will flag it as a change that has to be committed.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:40 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Script Only stacks make versioning and multiuser development environments
> possible, at least from the coding aspect of things. They cannot be
> password protected however, nor can they have properties, so even a
> faceless application which needed to avail these features would still need
> a UI stack. Also, objects whose code is unique and never changes would not
> benefit from a versioning system or as a behavior. It's probably simpler
> just to code the object. My 2¢
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 15:15 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's
> pronouncements with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really
> a universally understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand
> the concept of separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must
> contain **some** logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I
> really mean code. What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI
> stack, do people think? I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is
> going to be very different from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy
> about this, but I am not familiar with it.
> >
> > Graham
>
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Script Only stacks make versioning and multiuser development environments 
possible, at least from the coding aspect of things. They cannot be password 
protected however, nor can they have properties, so even a faceless application 
which needed to avail these features would still need a UI stack. Also, objects 
whose code is unique and never changes would not benefit from a versioning 
system or as a behavior. It's probably simpler just to code the object. My 2¢

Bob S


> On Feb 20, 2018, at 15:15 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's pronouncements 
> with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a universally 
> understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept of 
> separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain **some** 
> logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I really mean code. 
> What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack, do people think? 
> I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is going to be very different 
> from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about this, but I am not 
> familiar with it.
> 
> Graham

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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

You can move as much or as little as you like.  I prefer to move everything
and use an external text editor whenever I want to edit code.  The .rev or
.livecode stack file for me, then has multiple cards with the layouts and
the objects, but no code in it.  I also have taken to removing all
substacks and making them separate, especially since in many cases those
substacks are modules or libraries.  That makes version control of those
submodules and libraries far simpler for me.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's pronouncements
> > with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a universally
> > understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept of
> > separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain
> > **some** logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I
> really
> > mean code. What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack, do
> > people think? I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is going to
> be
> > very different from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about
> this,
> > but I am not familiar with it.
> >
>
> In Levure a UI stack is just a stack that is used as a window to display a
> user interface to the user. In LiveCode the term stack is overloaded. It
> can be a library, a front script, a back script, or a stack that is
> actually displays to the user. Actually it can be both a stack that
> displays an interface to the user and a library/frontscript/backscript).
> So
> Levure encourages you to organize your stacks based on how they are used.
> In Levure a UI stack will be added to the list of stackFiles property of
> the main Levure app stack. This allows you to reference the stack by name
> (e.g. stack “MyStack”) without having to load all of the UI stacks into
> memory when the application starts up.
>
> My general rule is that I place all code that is specific to a specific UI
> stack in the behaviors attached to the stack, cards, and controls of that
> stack. Any code that is shared is pushed down into a library.
>
> The controls in my stacks have very little code. They simply call handlers
> that reside in the card or stack behaviors.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: A little Levure-oriented question

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's pronouncements
> with great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a universally
> understood meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept of
> separating the UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain
> **some** logic, mustn’t it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I really
> mean code. What level of coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack, do
> people think? I have a feeling that some folks’ idea of this is going to be
> very different from some others’. Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about this,
> but I am not familiar with it.
>

In Levure a UI stack is just a stack that is used as a window to display a
user interface to the user. In LiveCode the term stack is overloaded. It
can be a library, a front script, a back script, or a stack that is
actually displays to the user. Actually it can be both a stack that
displays an interface to the user and a library/frontscript/backscript). So
Levure encourages you to organize your stacks based on how they are used.
In Levure a UI stack will be added to the list of stackFiles property of
the main Levure app stack. This allows you to reference the stack by name
(e.g. stack “MyStack”) without having to load all of the UI stacks into
memory when the application starts up.

My general rule is that I place all code that is specific to a specific UI
stack in the behaviors attached to the stack, cards, and controls of that
stack. Any code that is shared is pushed down into a library.

The controls in my stacks have very little code. They simply call handlers
that reside in the card or stack behaviors.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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A little Levure-oriented question

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I’m following the Levure discussion and of course Trevor's pronouncements with 
great interest. One thing strikes me - is there really a universally understood 
meaning to the term “UI stack”? I do understand the concept of separating the 
UI from the logic of an app, but any UI must contain **some** logic, mustn’t 
it? In the LC world, by ‘logic’ of course I really mean code. What level of 
coding is permissible to allow in a UI stack, do people think? I have a feeling 
that some folks’ idea of this is going to be very different from some others’. 
Perhaps there is an orthodoxy about this, but I am not familiar with it.

Graham
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Well since you put it THAT way... ;-P

I will offer this advice, and maybe it's not really needed, but I keep all the 
files necessary for a project in a single folder for that project, much like 
Levure does. For the purposes of cutting over, it may help to make a duplicate 
of your project and "Levureize" that, making it the default for that project 
when you are done. 

Bob S


> On Feb 20, 2018, at 11:56 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm interested in hearing more about other people who are thinking about
>> moving existing projects over.  I've moved several small ones over (and
>> built a couple from scratch), and have been thinking about moving my bigger
>> ones.  I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
>> though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before I decide
>> to move something big and get stuck).  Geoff has tackled one of the bigger
>> issues with Navigator (scriptifying stacks and chained behaviors).  That
>> seems to be the biggest barrier to getting moved for me.
> 
> 
> Remember that you don’t have to scriptify anything in order to move a
> project over to Levure. Scriptifying stacks is only necessary in order to
> properly incorporate version control software (VCS) into your project.
> Levure itself doesn’t care whether or not your stacks are binary or script
> only.
> 
> I *think* this is the bare minimum someone would need to do if they wanted
> to move their app to Levure:
> 
> 1) Pull out library, frontscript, back scripts from app and put in proper
> folders in Levure app.
> 2) Pull out any code that runs at app startup and place in the
> `InitializeApplication` or `OpenApplication` handlers in the Levure
> `app.livecodescript` script. Make sure and open the first stack the user
> should see at the end of the `OpenApplication` handler.
> 3) Pull out any code that needs to run when the application quits and place
> it in `PreShutdownApplication` in the Levure `app.livecodescript` script.
> 4) Pull out your UI stacks and place them in the proper folder structure
> for Levure.
> 5) Configure the standalone.livecode stack for your app, making sure to
> include any externals or extensions your app uses.
> 
> Once you’ve finished the above steps and your app runs as it did before
> then you can choose to go back and scriptify your stacks. You could start
> with the libraries, front and back scripts. Then move to the UI stacks
> using something like Navigator or the PI in LC 8 or 9 to convert control
> scripts to behaviors one at a time.
> 
> If you step back and look at what Levure is doing it isn’t terribly
> complicated conceptually:
> 
> * It provides a project structure for your UI stacks, library stacks,
> behavior stacks, etc. Because Levure projects use YAML files and the file
> system they are VCS friendly.
> * It provides a plugin system (helpers) that allows you to drop in
> functionality.
> 
> Because of these qualities, Levure can automate the launching, packaging,
> and updating of your app. It can also facilitate the addition of features
> which require multiple stacks and/or extensions.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:20 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'm interested in hearing more about other people who are thinking about
> moving existing projects over.  I've moved several small ones over (and
> built a couple from scratch), and have been thinking about moving my bigger
> ones.  I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
> though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before I decide
> to move something big and get stuck).  Geoff has tackled one of the bigger
> issues with Navigator (scriptifying stacks and chained behaviors).  That
> seems to be the biggest barrier to getting moved for me.


Remember that you don’t have to scriptify anything in order to move a
project over to Levure. Scriptifying stacks is only necessary in order to
properly incorporate version control software (VCS) into your project.
Levure itself doesn’t care whether or not your stacks are binary or script
only.

I *think* this is the bare minimum someone would need to do if they wanted
to move their app to Levure:

1) Pull out library, frontscript, back scripts from app and put in proper
folders in Levure app.
2) Pull out any code that runs at app startup and place in the
`InitializeApplication` or `OpenApplication` handlers in the Levure
`app.livecodescript` script. Make sure and open the first stack the user
should see at the end of the `OpenApplication` handler.
3) Pull out any code that needs to run when the application quits and place
it in `PreShutdownApplication` in the Levure `app.livecodescript` script.
4) Pull out your UI stacks and place them in the proper folder structure
for Levure.
5) Configure the standalone.livecode stack for your app, making sure to
include any externals or extensions your app uses.

Once you’ve finished the above steps and your app runs as it did before
then you can choose to go back and scriptify your stacks. You could start
with the libraries, front and back scripts. Then move to the UI stacks
using something like Navigator or the PI in LC 8 or 9 to convert control
scripts to behaviors one at a time.

If you step back and look at what Levure is doing it isn’t terribly
complicated conceptually:

* It provides a project structure for your UI stacks, library stacks,
behavior stacks, etc. Because Levure projects use YAML files and the file
system they are VCS friendly.
* It provides a plugin system (helpers) that allows you to drop in
functionality.

Because of these qualities, Levure can automate the launching, packaging,
and updating of your app. It can also facilitate the addition of features
which require multiple stacks and/or extensions.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
> though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before
> I decide to move something big and get stuck).

Levure appears to offer a very good framework.  The LC IDE offers 
another set of useful ideas.  revIgniter offers a good framework for 
still other projects, and (despite his letting the page go 404) Andre's 
Sparkle offers a good framework too.  And there are others ways of 
working, almost as many as we have developers using LiveCode.


The JavaScript world has 23,477 frameworks, and the PHP world offers a 
choice from among 48,392 frameworks. :)


It's code.  Many ways to skin all manner of animals.  Or to put skin 
back on.  Or trade skin with other creature, or replace their innards. 
In a universe of pixels all things are possible.


Choose the tooling that fits well with what you're working on.

Or choose parts of things that work for you, and parts of others.

Or write something entirely new to scratch your itch.

We hope that LC's growth will mirror the more widely-used languages, in 
which many frameworks and components spring up, some interoperable, some 
discrete, most useful, a few just for fun.


If there's anything I've learned from the Linux world, it's that users 
benefit from the inevitable diversity that naturally evolves in all 
healthy growing ecosystems.


One of the many things I admire about Trevor is how he actively 
encourages people to use the parts of his work that make the most sense 
for the task at hand, blending with other things as the work makes most 
beneficial.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm interested in hearing more about other people who are thinking about
moving existing projects over.  I've moved several small ones over (and
built a couple from scratch), and have been thinking about moving my bigger
ones.  I'm not sure how much work it's going to be to rewrite anything,
though (which is why I'm curious to hear what others think before I decide
to move something big and get stuck).  Geoff has tackled one of the bigger
issues with Navigator (scriptifying stacks and chained behaviors).  That
seems to be the biggest barrier to getting moved for me.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> He has some youtube videos, which after watching I understood the process
> well enough to know that it would be a fairly major rewrite of my projects
> to incorporate. It looks really cool, and I keep telling myself I'm going
> to do this soon.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 04:46 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I
> do think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very
> limited stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to
> do things. Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos,
> although in the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.
>
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
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And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

He has some youtube videos, which after watching I understood the process well 
enough to know that it would be a fairly major rewrite of my projects to 
incorporate. It looks really cool, and I keep telling myself I'm going to do 
this soon. 

Bob S


> On Feb 20, 2018, at 04:46 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I do 
> think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very limited 
> stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to do things. 
> Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos, although in 
> the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.

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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I wouldn't give up on it.  Levure is a really important development in the
LC universe, and one that is worth integrating into your work in the medium
term, but it is definitely a more advanced tool, like carbon frames and
high-pressure tires.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I
> do think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very
> limited stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to
> do things. Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos,
> although in the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.
>
> I will go around the houses once again to try to do app updating simply
> from within LC scripts. I do have a fair notion about what do do.
>
> I don’t know what I’ll do about Levure in the future. Perhaps I should
> just admit defeat.
>
> Cheers
>
> Graham
>
> (My mood is influenced no doubt by hideously wet and cold weather in the
> South of France… will I ever get back on my bike?)
>
> > On 19 Feb 2018, at 21:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I wouldn't do it if you only have 3 days.  I'd spend the effort on other
> > parts of your project instead.  It will take longer than 3 days to get
> > yourself into the Levure groove, IMHO.  It's well worth it, but you can't
> > just jump in and be off and going.
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of
> >> around 3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If
> >> (and it is only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.
> >>
> >> Graham
> >>
> >>> On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It
> is
> >>> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all
> of
> >>> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> >>> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very
> limited
> >> as
> >>> of late.
> >>>
> >>> —
> >>> Trevor DeVore
> >>> ScreenSteps
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
> >> bread-and-butter
> >>>> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> >>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> >>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> @Trevor
> >>>>>> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> >>>>>> transitioning to Levure" item
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> —
> >>>>> Trevor DeVore
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ___
> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>>>  and did a little diving.
> >>>> And God said, "This is good."
> >>>> ___
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>

Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Ha, that was my instinct really. I very much admire Trevor’s work, but I do 
think there’s quite a change of mindset involved, and from the very limited 
stuff I’ve seen, not very much step-by-step instructions on how to do things. 
Nowadays I really want to stick to the “everyone an code” ethos, although in 
the past I was happy with any amount of technical tweaking.

I will go around the houses once again to try to do app updating simply from 
within LC scripts. I do have a fair notion about what do do.

I don’t know what I’ll do about Levure in the future. Perhaps I should just 
admit defeat.

Cheers

Graham

(My mood is influenced no doubt by hideously wet and cold weather in the South 
of France… will I ever get back on my bike?)

> On 19 Feb 2018, at 21:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't do it if you only have 3 days.  I'd spend the effort on other
> parts of your project instead.  It will take longer than 3 days to get
> yourself into the Levure groove, IMHO.  It's well worth it, but you can't
> just jump in and be off and going.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of
>> around 3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If
>> (and it is only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> :-)
>>> 
>>> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
>>> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
>>> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
>>> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited
>> as
>>> of late.
>>> 
>>> —
>>> Trevor DeVore
>>> ScreenSteps
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
>> bread-and-butter
>>>> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> @Trevor
>>>>>> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
>>>>>> transitioning to Levure" item
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> —
>>>>> Trevor DeVore
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>>  and did a little diving.
>>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>>> ___
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I wouldn't do it if you only have 3 days.  I'd spend the effort on other
parts of your project instead.  It will take longer than 3 days to get
yourself into the Levure groove, IMHO.  It's well worth it, but you can't
just jump in and be off and going.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of
> around 3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If
> (and it is only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.
>
> Graham
>
> > On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
> > easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
> > the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> > Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited
> as
> > of late.
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> > ScreenSteps
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
> bread-and-butter
> >> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> @Trevor
> >>>> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> >>>> transitioning to Levure" item
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> >>>
> >>> —
> >>> Trevor DeVore
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>   and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I understand the problem. It looks as if I might have a short window of around 
3 days where I could see if I could get Levure to work for me. If (and it is 
only an if)  I manage this, I will try to write it up.

Graham

> On 19 Feb 2018, at 16:45, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> :-)
> 
> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited as
> of late.
> 
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
>> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> @Trevor
>>>> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
>>>> transitioning to Levure" item
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>>> 
>>> —
>>> Trevor DeVore
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>   and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Issue filed, let's discuss over there.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> :-)
>
> Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
> easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
> the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
> Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited as
> of late.
>
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Then you have to throw these things out more often so the
> bread-and-butter
> > cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > @Trevor
> > > > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> > > > transitioning to Levure" item
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> > >
> > > —
> > > Trevor DeVore
> > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >and did a little diving.
> > And God said, "This is good."
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

:-)

Usually it is just a matter of someone  asking the right question. It is
easier to respond to a question then to set aside time to consider all of
the questions people may be having and try to proactively create docs.
Unfortunately my time for extracurricular projects has been very limited as
of late.

—
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:37 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > @Trevor
> > > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> > > transitioning to Levure" item
> >
> >
> > I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> >
> > >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

And wait, don't you have a Documentation Doughboy?

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Mike Kerner <mikeker...@roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
> cult can do your bidding, my crusty master
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > @Trevor
>> > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
>> > transitioning to Levure" item
>>
>>
>> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>>
>> —
>> Trevor DeVore
>>
>> >
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Then you have to throw these things out more often so the bread-and-butter
cult can do your bidding, my crusty master

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > @Trevor
> > That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> > transitioning to Levure" item
>
>
> I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)
>
> —
> Trevor DeVore
>
> >
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:53 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> @Trevor
> That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
> transitioning to Levure" item


I agree. Somebody should write that up and submit a PR :-)

—
Trevor DeVore

>
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

@Trevor
That would be good advice to add to the wiki as a "trying out and
transitioning to Levure" item

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Graham,
>
> 1) You do not need to scriptify (move code into script only stacks) your
> stacks to use them in Levure. Levure supports an organizational structure
> (the `ui` folder in Levure) which makes it easy to organize binary stacks
> that use script only stacks as behaviors.
>
> 2) You are not required to use Git in order to use Levure. Levure helps you
> organize your code so that you can benefit from version control. It doesn’t
> require it.
>
> 3) You can still benefit from using Levure if you don’t use script only
> stacks or git yet. Levure provides a powerful packaging system for
> packaging your apps for distribution. Helpers allow you to drop in
> functionality that your app may need such as Prefernces, Inno Setup,
> DropDMG, etc. (On a somewhat related note I’m currently updating SQL Yoga
> to work as a helper which will simplify its usage considerably as all of
> the configuration is done with YAML files.)
>
> What I’ve done in the past when converting an app is move my stacks into
> the appropriate Levure folders without worrying about scriptifying them. I
> then move any app initialization code into the appropriate handlers in the
> Levure `app.livecodescript` file.
>
> Once the app is working again then I go back and scriptify stacks as
> needed. Libraries that don’t use any internal custom properties are easy to
> convert as are front and back scripts. You can then slowly go through each
> folder in the `app/ui` folder and move the scripts into a `behavior` folder
> that sits along each stack. No rush though.
>
> —
> Trevor DeVore
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:33 AM Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I have not tried to look at Levure until now, but since I am in
> > difficulties trying to create a user-oriented update system (the kind
> that
> > professionals use Sparkle for on Mac, and other techniques on other
> > platforms), I have some hopes (from previous emails from Trevor) that
> > Levure might help me. However, on first looking at the wiki, I think that
> > what Levure needs is a big commitment to work in a specific way - a good
> > way, bien sure, but not the way us primitive old coders have been doing
> for
> > the last few decades. This means, if I am right (and I could so easily
> not
> > be) that a ‘traditional’ app development, where stacks contain code in
> > various forms, could not be retrofitted to the Levure environment.
> Rather,
> > one would have to start from scratch, or at the very least do a great
> deal
> > of restructuring of such an existing app, so that pretty much all the
> code
> > is script-only. Plus of course learning the philosophy of Levure, and
> > feeling comfortable with Github...
> >
> > Can anyone comment on this enough to clear my head a little?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Graham
> > (A very old coder, who in his twilight years is trying to stick purely to
> > LC rather than try to recycle his misspent youth, where several now
> extinct
> > low- and high-level languages had to be mastered).
> >
> > > On 16 Feb 2018, at 00:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is
> > extensive.
> > >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
> > >
> > >
> > > The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
> > > description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.
> > >
> > > —
> > > Trevor DeVore
> > >
> > >> <https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki>
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi Graham,

1) You do not need to scriptify (move code into script only stacks) your
stacks to use them in Levure. Levure supports an organizational structure
(the `ui` folder in Levure) which makes it easy to organize binary stacks
that use script only stacks as behaviors.

2) You are not required to use Git in order to use Levure. Levure helps you
organize your code so that you can benefit from version control. It doesn’t
require it.

3) You can still benefit from using Levure if you don’t use script only
stacks or git yet. Levure provides a powerful packaging system for
packaging your apps for distribution. Helpers allow you to drop in
functionality that your app may need such as Prefernces, Inno Setup,
DropDMG, etc. (On a somewhat related note I’m currently updating SQL Yoga
to work as a helper which will simplify its usage considerably as all of
the configuration is done with YAML files.)

What I’ve done in the past when converting an app is move my stacks into
the appropriate Levure folders without worrying about scriptifying them. I
then move any app initialization code into the appropriate handlers in the
Levure `app.livecodescript` file.

Once the app is working again then I go back and scriptify stacks as
needed. Libraries that don’t use any internal custom properties are easy to
convert as are front and back scripts. You can then slowly go through each
folder in the `app/ui` folder and move the scripts into a `behavior` folder
that sits along each stack. No rush though.

—
Trevor DeVore


On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:33 AM Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have not tried to look at Levure until now, but since I am in
> difficulties trying to create a user-oriented update system (the kind that
> professionals use Sparkle for on Mac, and other techniques on other
> platforms), I have some hopes (from previous emails from Trevor) that
> Levure might help me. However, on first looking at the wiki, I think that
> what Levure needs is a big commitment to work in a specific way - a good
> way, bien sure, but not the way us primitive old coders have been doing for
> the last few decades. This means, if I am right (and I could so easily not
> be) that a ‘traditional’ app development, where stacks contain code in
> various forms, could not be retrofitted to the Levure environment. Rather,
> one would have to start from scratch, or at the very least do a great deal
> of restructuring of such an existing app, so that pretty much all the code
> is script-only. Plus of course learning the philosophy of Levure, and
> feeling comfortable with Github...
>
> Can anyone comment on this enough to clear my head a little?
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
> (A very old coder, who in his twilight years is trying to stick purely to
> LC rather than try to recycle his misspent youth, where several now extinct
> low- and high-level languages had to be mastered).
>
> > On 16 Feb 2018, at 00:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is
> extensive.
> >> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
> >
> >
> > The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
> > description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.
> >
> > —
> > Trevor DeVore
> >
> >> <https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki>
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I have not tried to look at Levure until now, but since I am in difficulties 
trying to create a user-oriented update system (the kind that professionals use 
Sparkle for on Mac, and other techniques on other platforms), I have some hopes 
(from previous emails from Trevor) that Levure might help me. However, on first 
looking at the wiki, I think that what Levure needs is a big commitment to work 
in a specific way - a good way, bien sure, but not the way us primitive old 
coders have been doing for the last few decades. This means, if I am right (and 
I could so easily not be) that a ‘traditional’ app development, where stacks 
contain code in various forms, could not be retrofitted to the Levure 
environment. Rather, one would have to start from scratch, or at the very least 
do a great deal of restructuring of such an existing app, so that pretty much 
all the code is script-only. Plus of course learning the philosophy of Levure, 
and feeling comfortable with Github...

Can anyone comment on this enough to clear my head a little?

TIA

Graham
(A very old coder, who in his twilight years is trying to stick purely to LC 
rather than try to recycle his misspent youth, where several now extinct low- 
and high-level languages had to be mastered).

> On 16 Feb 2018, at 00:42, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is extensive.
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
> 
> 
> The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
> description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.
> 
> —
> Trevor DeVore
> 
>> <https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 4:30 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is extensive.
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki


The wiki is definitely where you want to end up. The readme has a short
description and points users to the wiki documentation to learn more.

—
Trevor DeVore

> <https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki>
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Check the wiki instead of the readme.md.  The documentation is extensive.
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Levure Framework is a method for creating LC applications that leverage Script 
Only stacks for the code so that versioning and distribution systems like 
GitHub can be used in the development process. (Trevor will correct me if I am 
wrong). Even if such a system is not used, multiuser development systems can be 
leveraged by limiting write access to any script only stack file to a single 
user. 

Bob S


> On Feb 15, 2018, at 01:15 , Pi Digital via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Trevor
> 
> Your readme.md and your posts here could do with a description of what Levure 
> is and does. Just use the first paragraph from your wiki. 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2018, at 16:38, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy folks,
>> 
>> Version 0.9.5 of the Levure framework is now available.
>> 
>> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases
>> 
>> -- 
>> Trevor DeVore
>> ScreenSteps
>> www.screensteps.com
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Levure update 0.9.5

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Hi Trevor

Your readme.md and your posts here could do with a description of what Levure 
is and does. Just use the first paragraph from your wiki. 

All the best

Sean Cole
Pi Digital

> On 14 Feb 2018, at 16:38, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Howdy folks,
> 
> Version 0.9.5 of the Levure framework is now available.
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Levure update 0.9.5

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Howdy folks,

Version 0.9.5 of the Levure framework is now available.

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/releases

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Levure update: Customizing builds

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi list,

I made a screencast introducing a new features I've been working on for the
Levure packager. Applications that are delivered to different target groups
may have different distribution requirements. On macOS a common example is
an application that is distributed through the developers website as well
as the Mac App Store (MAS). Some of the files that are required for the MAS
version are different than those required for the non-MAS version.

The screencast introduces the `build profiles filter` and `platform filter`
properties. These two properties help you customize the files included with
different build profiles when packaging up a Levure application for
distribution.

While the example in the screencast looks at the needs for MAS/non-MAS the
`build profiles filter` can also be used to customize which UI components,
libraries, externals, extensions, etc. are included. Another potential
example would be an app with different UIs for mobile and desktop. Your
Levure application could include code and UI files for both platforms but
only the relevant files would be included when packaging the app.

Screencast:
https://youtu.be/hnBlTtFmfoc

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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Levure update: Customizing builds

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

Hi list,

I made a screencast introducing a new features I've been working on for the
Levure packager. Applications that are delivered to different target groups
may have different distribution requirements. On macOS a common example is
an application that is distributed through the developers website as well
as the Mac App Store (MAS). Some of the files that are required for the MAS
version are different than those required for the non-MAS version.

The screencast introduces the `build profiles filter` and `platform filter`
properties. These two properties help you customize the files included with
different build profiles when packaging up a Levure application for
distribution.

While the example in the screencast looks at the needs for MAS/non-MAS the
`build profiles filter` can also be used to customize which UI components,
libraries, externals, extensions, etc. are included. Another potential
example would be an app with different UIs for mobile and desktop. Your
Levure application could include code and UI files for both platforms but
only the relevant files would be included when packaging the app.

Screencast:
https://youtu.be/hnBlTtFmfoc

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps
www.screensteps.com
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