Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov in '85 (Idealogical Subversion & Demoralization): "...to change the perception of reality of every American [and most Europeans] to such an extent that despite the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves.. and their country." "The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures. Even if I take him, by force, to the Soviet Union and show him concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it until he is going to receive a kick in his fat bottom. When the military boot crashes his, then he will understand. But not before that. That is the tragedy of this situation of demoralization." On 7/11/2020 5:39 PM, Eric Broch wrote: People are upset because they're being called racists when they're not by a sub-group who wants dominance and makes the accusation that because you're white you're a racist. Then our peers grovel when they've done nothing wrong. They've committed NO sin. Master/Slave wasn't thought up to OFFEND anyone nor to make any racial connotations. You are admitting guilt where there is no guilt. As I said earlier, every race has been enslaved at one point in there existence or another. Black slave masters sold black slaves to white slave traders, and yet, I hear no call for reparations for blacks from black slave masters. No, it's only a call to whites because there's an agenda to bring down white culture. It starts somewhere. The current battle is to remove our language and to impute guilt where there is none. Again, grow up. On 7/11/2020 5:23 PM, @lbutlr wrote: Do you notice how your words are nothing more than an attack on anyone whose opinion differs from yours? For the record, I know*many* people who are perfectly sane who find using the terms master and slave in a technical context to be deeply offensive. But you denigrate anyone who doesn't agree with you. And you whine that nothing should be changed for other people because it's fine with you and those people are lesser than you and therefore their feelings are unimportant. This is exactly what I meant by, "it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy;" rather than make an effort to understand why people have a difference of opinion it is simpler to attack them and diminish them as having mental issues for daring to not toe to your line. The decision has been made. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to fork their own version of Spamassassin, bind, and other packages for whatever reason they want, even the mostly trivially selfish of reasons. -- I'm from a predominately black family --Eddie Murphy
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
People are upset because they're being called racists when they're not by a sub-group who wants dominance and makes the accusation that because you're white you're a racist. Then our peers grovel when they've done nothing wrong. They've committed NO sin. Master/Slave wasn't thought up to OFFEND anyone nor to make any racial connotations. You are admitting guilt where there is no guilt. As I said earlier, every race has been enslaved at one point in there existence or another. Black slave masters sold black slaves to white slave traders, and yet, I hear no call for reparations for blacks from black slave masters. No, it's only a call to whites because there's an agenda to bring down white culture. It starts somewhere. The current battle is to remove our language and to impute guilt where there is none. Again, grow up. On 7/11/2020 5:23 PM, @lbutlr wrote: Do you notice how your words are nothing more than an attack on anyone whose opinion differs from yours? For the record, I know*many* people who are perfectly sane who find using the terms master and slave in a technical context to be deeply offensive. But you denigrate anyone who doesn't agree with you. And you whine that nothing should be changed for other people because it's fine with you and those people are lesser than you and therefore their feelings are unimportant. This is exactly what I meant by, "it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy;" rather than make an effort to understand why people have a difference of opinion it is simpler to attack them and diminish them as having mental issues for daring to not toe to your line. The decision has been made. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to fork their own version of Spamassassin, bind, and other packages for whatever reason they want, even the mostly trivially selfish of reasons. -- I'm from a predominately black family --Eddie Murphy
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 11 Jul 2020, at 16:38, Reindl Harald wrote: > yeah - by quoting your own idiocy - wow I did no t want to call out any particular posting or poster. > nobody right in his mind thins about black people in chanis when read > something like this in a technical context: slave, master, blacklist, > whitelist, blackhat, whitehat Do you notice how your words are nothing more than an attack on anyone whose opinion differs from yours? For the record, I know *many* people who are perfectly sane who find using the terms master and slave in a technical context to be deeply offensive. But you denigrate anyone who doesn't agree with you. And you whine that nothing should be changed for other people because it's fine with you and those people are lesser than you and therefore their feelings are unimportant. This is exactly what I meant by, "it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy;" rather than make an effort to understand why people have a difference of opinion it is simpler to attack them and diminish them as having mental issues for daring to not toe to your line. The decision has been made. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to fork their own version of Spamassassin, bind, and other packages for whatever reason they want, even the mostly trivially selfish of reasons. -- I'm from a predominately black family --Eddie Murphy
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
Most every race has been enslaved at some point or other. They'd have you believe that only whites were the enslave[ers] of blacks, It goes with their evil narrative. What, I am supposed to be offended because my ancestors in the past were enslaved by Romans or even blacks? Do they owe me reparations? Am I offended by these terms because something happened to my ancestors and am I calling for their removal? No, grow up! On 7/11/2020 4:04 PM, @lbutlr wrote: On 11 Jul 2020, at 00:51, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by the use of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and I've never actually seen one in real life. Do they really exist? "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. Exactly. Although in other packages and usages the one that *has* caused terrible offense is master/slave. Many projects have been changing this over the last several years. It is astonishing, but not surprising, how angry people are over these changes though; it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy.
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 11 Jul 2020, at 16:04, @lbutlr wrote: > It is astonishing, but not surprising, how angry people are over these > changes though; it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy. If there is anyone paying attention to the mailing list, can you please just kill this thread? It's not providing any useful content at this point and is just churning the same people posting about how terrible it is that they might, possibly but almost certainly really not, suffer the mildest of inconveniences in a small change to the package. There's literally nothing to see here anymore, if there ever was past the initial post. And some of you in this thread… wow. -- I WILL NOT PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO BART Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F09
Re: spamhaus enabled by default
On 11 Jul 2020, at 04:33, Riccardo Alfieri wrote: > And I don't know where you got a quote of "hundreds of dollars per month" for > 1000 mailboxes, but it's not really the case if you use DQS. Maybe they thought the yearly cost was monthly? (Last I checked, DQS stars at $250/yr) -- The other cats just think he's a tosser. --Neil Gaiman
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 11 Jul 2020, at 00:51, Bill Cole wrote: > On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: > >> On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: >> >>> If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are >>> extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh >>> noes. >> >> I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by the >> use of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and I've never >> actually seen one in real life. Do they really exist? > > "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been > raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another > Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. Exactly. Although in other packages and usages the one that *has* caused terrible offense is master/slave. Many projects have been changing this over the last several years. It is astonishing, but not surprising, how angry people are over these changes though; it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy. -- When the least they could do to you was everything, then the most they could do to you suddenly held no terror. --Small Gods
Re: update fail
Marcus Schopen skrev den 2020-07-11 23:43: config: warning: description exists for non-existent rule USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO meta USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO (USER_IN_WHITELIST_TO) i have still some bricks of Ritter Sport chocolate :=)
update fail
Hi, when updating by cron from channel updates.spamassassin.org I get the following error on multiple servers: --- config: warning: description exists for non-existent rule USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO channel: lint check of update failed, channel failed sa-update failed for unknown reasons --- The error occurred for the first time within the last hour. I'm not quite sure, but according to debug "Mail::SpamAssassin::Plugin::FreeMail" could be the problem. -- Jul 11 23:37:58.443 [17022] dbg: plugin: Mail::SpamAssassin::Plugin::FreeMail=HASH(0x2cab3c0) implements 'parse_config', priority 0 config: warning: description exists for non-existent rule USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO -- Ciao! Marcus
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
There is a difference between having authority to punish crime and authoritarianism. Do you believe lawlessness is a good thing? On 7/11/2020 1:49 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: Nice authoritarianism you’ve got there. On Jul 11, 2020, at 8:32 AM, Eric Broch wrote: Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: 'Rules for Radicals'). One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them because they are intent on destroying anything civilized. On 7/11/2020 5:32 AM, Antony Stone wrote: ..., they're just demonstrating themselves as stirring up trouble...
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 7/11/2020 12:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 06:32 -0600, Eric Broch wrote: Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: 'Rules for Radicals'). Maybe so, but one thing I know it that the people were not fooled by their Warsaw Pact governments. They knew very well that what they got was not what they were promised. I was in Chechoslovakia when Solidarity was the name of the game on Poland and the Berlin Wall hadn't yet fallen. We met a lot of young East Germans who were holidaying there because it was the only country they could get holiday visas for. The one thing we heard from these young East Germans at some point in a conversation was a variation on "Of course we know about Marx and his brand of Communism because we had to study that in school. It sounds wonderful: we just wish we had it in our country". We knew then that something was about to change soon, so weren't surprised when the Wall came down. Anyway: that was realpolitik. Political correctness is not realpolitik, even slightly. Its a pity George Orwell isn't around now. One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them because they are intent on destroying anything civilized. I don't think you have the faintest idea of what a radical is. Martin Well, if we're going to discuss whether I know what I'm talking about maybe I should ask whether there is a standard by which we can judge? Is the standard simply the opinions of men, or is there a higher standard? Obviously, I believe there is a higher standard and anyone who departs from that standard in their thinking is a radical. There are varying degrees of radicalism and varying boundaries among the radicals. With SA I'm certain that the founders had NO evil motives when borrowing and using the terms 'whitelist' and 'blacklist.' I assume that the motive was to create and maintain software helpful to all men regardless of race. Innocent of any evil intent they most likely didn't give it a second thought. They are now being swayed into thinking that each one of them had evil motives all along and that those evil motives have to do with their whiteness. If this is not racism--a form of radicalism--I don't know what is. The normal person looks at the words and assumes no racial slur was intended since, again, the software is intended to help all alike. The SA team now made aware of their "inherent racism" and "white privilege" by these radicals will are now bent on placation while no wrong was ever committed. How does one placate an irrational person, a radical? The only ones who try are irrational themselves. As is obvious in the U.S. right now the radical is not concerned with truth, justice, or reason, only control. Yes I can tell what a radical is by comparing their deeds and speech to a higher standard, a moral standard, if you will, a standard that does not change at whim. Whether your young East German acquaintances knew it or not they were under a form of Marxism in East Germany. The same is true in China today. China is a form of Marxist ideology with minor variations. Of course there will be differing degrees of oppression between Marxist's nations making one preferable to another.
Re: spamhaus enabled by default
> On Jul 11, 2020, at 6:33 AM, Riccardo Alfieri > wrote: > > On 10/07/20 22:51, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> >> That’s unrealistic. Many ISPs these days that aren’t the “big boys” with >> dedicated staff for every facet of ISP operations, they are one and two man >> shops running WISPs in rural areas or developing countries. It’s not the >> 90’s anymore. It’s a terrible default, even home users should have to take >> an effort to enable a commercial service. > I'm not going to make comments about running an ISP without a basic knowledge > of email/hosting/networking Wow, nice sales pitch my man! I will definitely recommend they sign up. >> And spamhaus should just replace the sales pitch email with instructions on >> how to comment their stuff out if they don’t want small ISPs (a small >> business, actually!) to use it. :) > > Excuse me but isn't it at least "fair" that, if you use a service provided by > others for commercial purposes, you pay for that service that contributes to > your income? Then it shouldn’t be free for “small businesses”. Having spam-free mailboxes will enhance their ability to conduct business, no? Or does your product not provide value. > And I don't know where you got a quote of "hundreds of dollars per month" for > 1000 mailboxes, but it's not really the case if you use DQS. No idea what DQS is, nor do I care. The quote was from a sales rep. But the Spamhaus pitch was laughably expensive for less than 1,000 mailboxes - much more than they make on those mailboxes. C > > -- > Best regards, > Riccardo Alfieri > > Spamhaus Technology > https://www.spamhaustech.com/ >
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
Nice authoritarianism you’ve got there. > On Jul 11, 2020, at 8:32 AM, Eric Broch wrote: > > Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. > They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to > overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: 'Rules for > Radicals'). > > One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them because they are > intent on destroying anything civilized. > > > On 7/11/2020 5:32 AM, Antony Stone wrote: >> ..., they're just >> demonstrating themselves as stirring up trouble...
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
Maybe Apache just need some more figures... Is there any black lady/gentleman in this list who feels ofended for those terms? please rise you hand... LET's VOTE... Would you like to have Apache Spamassassin change "WhiteList" and "BlackList" terms due to racism sensibilities? | | | | | | | | | | | Would you like to have Apache Spamassassin change "WhiteList" and "Black... Encuesta online sobre Would you like to have Apache Spamassassin change "WhiteList" and "BlackList" terms due to... | | |
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 06:32 -0600, Eric Broch wrote: > Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers > do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist > tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: > 'Rules for Radicals'). > Maybe so, but one thing I know it that the people were not fooled by their Warsaw Pact governments. They knew very well that what they got was not what they were promised. I was in Chechoslovakia when Solidarity was the name of the game on Poland and the Berlin Wall hadn't yet fallen. We met a lot of young East Germans who were holidaying there because it was the only country they could get holiday visas for. The one thing we heard from these young East Germans at some point in a conversation was a variation on "Of course we know about Marx and his brand of Communism because we had to study that in school. It sounds wonderful: we just wish we had it in our country". We knew then that something was about to change soon, so weren't surprised when the Wall came down. Anyway: that was realpolitik. Political correctness is not realpolitik, even slightly. Its a pity George Orwell isn't around now. > One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them because > they are intent on destroying anything civilized. > I don't think you have the faintest idea of what a radical is. Martin
Re: Really simple setup guide
Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-11 19:15: because my box is centos 7 i think i am going to grab an old box and stick centos 8 on there and start from scratch with a small domain. precompiled problems is not my cop of tea like postfix, dovecot (full text search), fuglu (spamassassim, clamav, dkim, spf, vacation) . +1 would be nice to build everything with docker so that the configuration is easily reproducible and it is obvious what has changed from base config. try gentoo then On 11/07/2020 11:21, Axb wrote: fuglu is just glue between your MTA and SA, your AVs, etc, etc. its more or less just how to configure it, if you like to share it, maybe its time for domain based bayes, not just global bayes, or pr user recipient, bayes should atleast support postfix virtual alias just like dovecot does, it would be usefull if it do that
Re: Really simple setup guide
Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-11 10:11: fuglu looks nice. it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the Bayes as well? i see no problem in sieve Bayes learning, its documented in wiki from dovecot how to make this work for more deeply fuglu help join the maillist
Re: Really simple setup guide
because my box is centos 7 i think i am going to grab an old box and stick centos 8 on there and start from scratch with a small domain. like postfix, dovecot (full text search), fuglu (spamassassim, clamav, dkim, spf, vacation) . would be nice to build everything with docker so that the configuration is easily reproducible and it is obvious what has changed from base config. On 11/07/2020 11:21, Axb wrote: On 7/11/20 10:11 AM, Matthew Broadhead wrote: fuglu looks nice. it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the bayes as well? nope - bayes learning is handled by SA's sa-learn (see docs) fuglu is just glue between your MTA and SA, your AVs, etc, etc. On 10/07/2020 23:00, Benny Pedersen wrote: Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-10 11:02: i tried to set up bayes training before but i feel that i was unsuccessful. is there a definitive guide on setting this up on postfix with amavis? if my user were the one that was training it for the other users that would be ideal are you sure you want to use amavis ?, have you considered fuglu ? or even other not so hard to make it work, like spampd ?
RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020, Marc Roos wrote: I don't see a problem since blacklist/whitelist are terms the computer industry just grabbed from hotel reservation desks or some place like that. It's not going to stop their use by the general public of course. I think you can go a bit further, like 1000 BC in chinese culture yin yang ;) Oooo, *good* point. -- John Hardin KA7OHZhttp://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/ jhar...@impsec.orgFALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhar...@impsec.org key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79 --- What the hell is an "Aluminum Falcon"??-- Emperor Palpatine --- 9 days until the 51st anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the Moon
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020, jdow wrote: I do not demand 50% of my peers be women. I simply demand that 100% of my peers carry their load. For THAT I am a racist fascist. Snarf! -- John Hardin KA7OHZhttp://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/ jhar...@impsec.orgFALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhar...@impsec.org key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79 --- What the hell is an "Aluminum Falcon"??-- Emperor Palpatine --- 9 days until the 51st anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the Moon
Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
"As programmers, our day to day work doesn’t typically present us with opportunities to take a stand against racism. Situations like this are opportunities to be the change we want to see. When you get that opportunity and you don’t act, or even worse, you defend the status quo." That quote was from a 2018 blog: https://blog.carbonfive.com/problematic-terminology-in-open-source/ According to Wikipedia, Master/Slave was changed by IBM,[8] Microsoft,[9] Engine Yard,[10] Amazon Web Services/Amazon Relational Database Service,[11] as well as in Python,[12] Django,[13][14] Drupal,[15] CouchDB,[16] and Redis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master/slave_(technology)#Terminology_concerns The creator of Redis initially resisted the change of master/slave, and he received many "colorful" responses to his view at that time, which are worth reading: http://antirez.com/news/122 Eventually, he decided to make the change, and also received many "interesting" responses: https://github.com/redis/redis/issues/5335 Arguing for or against the change in terms, would have been useful when it was originally proposed, years ago. But since the terms are being changed in the software world, arguing now is pointless. Things are changing, whether people like it or not. The year 2000 didn't bring changes that people expected. But the year 2020, certainly has.
Re: spamhaus enabled by default
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 17:35:58 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote: > we are working at ISP level and customers have their own domains where > they can get an auth-token for transfer the domain at every point in > time > > so there is no dumb outsourcing nor any lockin > > when you use something like "myname@gmailcom" or > "myn...@randomisp.com" you are simply dumb given how cheap a domain > per year is That's email domain hosting. I was referring to traditional ISP email with an address or subdomain on an ISP domain.
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On Friday 10 July 2020 at 14:37:09, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > How long until we have to rename electrical and mechanical > connectors? Shortly after the astrophysicists have found an inoffensive term for black holes, various military agencies have stopped running black ops, all the various meanings of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_friday have been changed, and my poodle has been re-defined as "extreme dark grey". I'd also just like to remind people: On Friday 10 July 2020 at 10:30:51, Dan Malm wrote: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklisting#Origins_of_the_term > The term has nothing to do with race. Antony. -- If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we'd be so simple that we couldn't. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
RE: spamhaus enabled by default
> > Am 11.07.20 um 01:56 schrieb RW: > > > I thought most ISPs had outsourced or given-up on email. > > > > why should someone with a brain outsource anything? > > I don't know, why do you outsource? > > > > ISP email has IMO always been a way of locking-in gullible > > > customers. The US is always behind with consumer rights, in the EU consumer data portability is arranged enforced legislation. Then again, is there not some saying like 'people deserve the government they are having' > > > > bullshit - how is there a lockin for customers with their own domains? > > It locks in those that use the address directly - try and keep up. > I think it will be more popular not to host with google or so. Because google is mixing your messages with spam, and your messages are more likely to be marked as spam. Furthermore doctors and anything serious will not use US based providers because of the lack of privacy. Recently someone contacted me in regards a CEO fraud issue. Google and Outlook.com were not even able to deliver evidence an email was delivered.
Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:24 PM Mark London wrote: > > The proposed name changes were proposed for many years in the software > community. For example in 2014, Drupal opted to use "primary/replica" > instead, and Django followed suit the same year with > "leader/follower".In 2018, there apparently was a renewed interest > in changing the names by many others. For example, I found: > Good thing everyone on this planet speaks not only English but American (American shows do tend to put captions when a British person is speaking) language and has a thesaurus on standby so they will *instinctively* primary=leader=uaoo, unless on Tuesdays, and replica=follower=Neee on Fridays but might also be secondary if the 4th moo cow is farting at a 35 degree off the ecliptic. Well, they better because if their American-to-Swahili dictionary does not have all the synonyms, including the one created a few moments ago and only used in the new version of the SDK they use, the Diversity & Inclusion Police (DIP) will take them away and throw them in a pain amplifier for the remaining of their lives for Failing to Fit In (FFI). > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-knodel-terminology-00.html > > So this issue is nothing new, and the arguments on this issue, that have > been occurring on this mailing list, have already occurred. > If these arguments are still occurring today, could it be a reason other than Trump creating a bunch of fake emails and tweeting all the replies including this one? > - Mark >
Re: spamhaus enabled by default
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 02:49:31 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote: > Am 11.07.20 um 01:56 schrieb RW: > > I thought most ISPs had outsourced or given-up on email. > > why should someone with a brain outsource anything? I don't know, why do you outsource? > > ISP email has IMO always been a way of locking-in gullible > > customers. > > bullshit - how is there a lockin for customers with their own domains? It locks in those that use the address directly - try and keep up.
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: 'Rules for Radicals'). One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them because they are intent on destroying anything civilized. On 7/11/2020 5:32 AM, Antony Stone wrote: ..., they're just demonstrating themselves as stirring up trouble...
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
LOL!!!
On 7/11/2020 2:24 AM, jdow wrote:
On 20200710 17:02:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote:
On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote:
If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are
extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam.
Oh noes.
I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended
by the use of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and
I've never actually seen one in real life. Do they really exist?
-lem
More importantly do they really matter? If they cannot take the
discomfort off a word that they have translated into a false meaning
I'd suggest they grow up and join the real world. Diverting resources
from constructive use to a use that will introduce more points of
failure in a working product for no tangible reward is counter
productive.
(And over the years I've grown annoyed at the number of tools I built
around spamassassin must be reinvented with updates. I finally gave up
trying to keep auditing tools running. My favorite development hook
from 2.x days vanished in 3.x making diagnosing rule malfunctions
messier. What will this NEW nonsense bring for my endless entertainment?)
{^_^}
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 7/11/20 1:32 PM, Antony Stone wrote: On Saturday 11 July 2020 at 12:42:43, hospice admin wrote: Concentrating on the technical issues below ... I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. That's the point I was attempting to make about Mercedes ... painting their cars a different colour does nothing to make it better or worse ... just different [in a way that has nothing to do with practical support for diversity of any kind]. For me, the risks of messing up Spam Assassin [or anything else] for months to come completely outweighs the benefits of a token 'tip of the hat' towards diversity. Unfortunately you speak with the voice of reason, and that is never welcome when people are bent on enforcing "political correctness" on the world. Any dissenting opinion is regarded as "missing the point" or being "insensitive to the oppressed", whether the situation in which the correctness police are enforcing their views has anything to do with the oppressed or not. I wish you luck in asking people to debate the real question of whether there is in fact any problem to be solved, and if there is, what is the sensible way to solve it. For my part, until anyone can show that the use of words such as blacklist or master/slave in technology has anything to do with racial references and are therefore being used in an offensive way, rather than as standard terms for the industry with no reference at all to human social groups, they're just demonstrating themselves as stirring up trouble and heated debate where there is no real problem. Amen to that! And the ppl pushing these changes now obviously won't step back because they'd loose their face. I don't wish them the best. They will be causing a huge amount of ppl a truckload of grief and unnecessary work. Axb
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On Saturday 11 July 2020 at 12:42:43, hospice admin wrote: > Concentrating on the technical issues below ... > > I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, > myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. > > That's the point I was attempting to make about Mercedes ... painting their > cars a different colour does nothing to make it better or worse ... just > different [in a way that has nothing to do with practical support for > diversity of any kind]. > > For me, the risks of messing up Spam Assassin [or anything else] for months > to come completely outweighs the benefits of a token 'tip of the hat' > towards diversity. Unfortunately you speak with the voice of reason, and that is never welcome when people are bent on enforcing "political correctness" on the world. Any dissenting opinion is regarded as "missing the point" or being "insensitive to the oppressed", whether the situation in which the correctness police are enforcing their views has anything to do with the oppressed or not. I wish you luck in asking people to debate the real question of whether there is in fact any problem to be solved, and if there is, what is the sensible way to solve it. For my part, until anyone can show that the use of words such as blacklist or master/slave in technology has anything to do with racial references and are therefore being used in an offensive way, rather than as standard terms for the industry with no reference at all to human social groups, they're just demonstrating themselves as stirring up trouble and heated debate where there is no real problem. Antony. -- I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are _obviously_ no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no _obvious_ deficiencies. - C A R Hoare Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
Concentrating on the technical issues below ... I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. That's the point I was attempting to make about Mercedes ... painting their cars a different colour does nothing to make it better or worse ... just different [in a way that has nothing to do with practical support for diversity of any kind]. For me, the risks of messing up Spam Assassin [or anything else] for months to come completely outweighs the benefits of a token 'tip of the hat' towards diversity. Judy. From: Bill Cole Sent: 10 July 2020 21:21 To: users@spamassassin.apache.org Subject: Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave On 10 Jul 2020, at 5:12, hospice admin wrote: > $0.02 from a woman of colour ... > > I personally find stuff like this just a little bit patronising ... > more of a matter of kicking the real problem into the weeds than > actually doing anything practical to 'fix' it. Well, in the context of the Apache SpamAssassin Project, "The Real Problem" that we have any capacity to work on is the low diversity of our developer community. Eliminating terminology that may be off-putting for even a minority of a minority of possible contributors is worthwhile, particularly when the block/welcome terminology we are replacing black/white with is explicitly descriptive rather than metaphorical and connotative. We have no way of knowing how many people have thought less of SA because of terminology or whether any of those people might have otherwise become involved enough in the project to be contributors. If changing the terminology makes the Project look less like a bunch of white guys trying to make rules for the world's email, that's a positive step. > Right up there with Mercedes decision to paint their $100 Million F1 > cars black. This is a bit less symbolic. We're actually making the terminology better. > I'm sure the intent was positive though ... The intent is to do what we can to make involvement in the SpamAssassin community less hostile to newcomers, even if elements of hostility that we can address are not universally recognized as such. We cannot do much for the bigger Real Problems that intersect with ours tangentially, because unlike Daimler-Benz, we don't have $100 Million or even $1 to spend. None of us has the time and skills to make a focused recruiting effort to get a more diverse set of contributors or even just more contributors. Changing a few labels in the code is something we CAN do. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not For Hire (currently)
RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
> I don't see a problem since blacklist/whitelist are terms the computer industry > just grabbed from hotel reservation desks or some place like that. It's not > going to stop their use by the general public of course. I think you can go a bit further, like 1000 BC in chinese culture yin yang ;)
Re: spamhaus enabled by default
On 10/07/20 22:51, Charles Sprickman wrote: That’s unrealistic. Many ISPs these days that aren’t the “big boys” with dedicated staff for every facet of ISP operations, they are one and two man shops running WISPs in rural areas or developing countries. It’s not the 90’s anymore. It’s a terrible default, even home users should have to take an effort to enable a commercial service. I'm not going to make comments about running an ISP without a basic knowledge of email/hosting/networking And spamhaus should just replace the sales pitch email with instructions on how to comment their stuff out if they don’t want small ISPs (a small business, actually!) to use it. :) Excuse me but isn't it at least "fair" that, if you use a service provided by others for commercial purposes, you pay for that service that contributes to your income? And I don't know where you got a quote of "hundreds of dollars per month" for 1000 mailboxes, but it's not really the case if you use DQS. -- Best regards, Riccardo Alfieri Spamhaus Technology https://www.spamhaustech.com/
RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - (reason: 553 5.1.8 ... Domain of sender address x...@f1-outsourcing.eu does not exist) I think netfence.it is not really doing a good job ;)
RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
>On 2020-07-11 00:32, Mark London wrote: >> Spamassassin is not alone. > >Quote: >"If a lot of people believe in something stupid, it just doesn't stop being stupid". But in a democracy you will have a problem with this.
Re: Really simple setup guide
On 7/11/20 10:11 AM, Matthew Broadhead wrote: fuglu looks nice. it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the bayes as well? nope - bayes learning is handled by SA's sa-learn (see docs) fuglu is just glue between your MTA and SA, your AVs, etc, etc. On 10/07/2020 23:00, Benny Pedersen wrote: Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-10 11:02: i tried to set up bayes training before but i feel that i was unsuccessful. is there a definitive guide on setting this up on postfix with amavis? if my user were the one that was training it for the other users that would be ideal are you sure you want to use amavis ?, have you considered fuglu ? or even other not so hard to make it work, like spampd ?
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 20200711 00:40:20, Luis E. Muñoz wrote:
On 10 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Bill Cole wrote:
"Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has
been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet
Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things.
Reminds me of left-handed people back when I grew up. In my time children would
use chairs with integrated tables that would be fit for /either/ right- or
left-handed people. Since there were more right-handed children, left-handed
people would have to be more creative to adapt.
So far we know:
* Terms such as blacklist are a minor annoyance
* There's no evidence of "how many people have thought less of SA" because of
the use of the term "blacklist"
* The change has a very non-zero impact /everywhere/ the software is deployed,
as explained by other contributors to this ML
If you want a direct first-hand explication, hunt down the recent extended
rant on Twitter by Jackie Singh (@find_evil) triggered by the suggestion
that the Black Hat conference was considering a name change and the blowback
from that.
Sure, are you talking about this?
https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1279945071371128834 – "The only person on
that list who looks anything like me is the head of infosec at Fb"
In here she posts a poll asking whether you would apply to be part of a board
composing by people that don't look like you –
https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1279948068411052045
I can't answer for everybody of course, but I would not care how the current
members of a group I wanted to join look. I have been part of many groups that
contained people that did not look like me – professional and otherwise. Up to
that point in the thread, it seems to me as someone looking for excuses. If I
missed something, please point me to it.
If I continue to look at her tweets, I find examples such as this:
https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1281735488437727233 – she seems surprised
that someone would want to choose compatible people to work with. I don't know
her or the context, and it is not my place to pass judgement, but I sincerely
hope that whomever is in charge has better justification for this change than
this lady's tweet rant.
I do not know the rules under which ASF and SAP operate, but this thread is
evidence that the position you are defending is far from widely shared, and to
me, looks very poorly justified.
Future software? Sure. Get rid of anything remotely offensive /the next time
around/. Start by not using Assassin in the name, Apache in your organization
and not mentioning any colors or university degrees. For existing, deployed,
critical code? Don't change things to win cookie points.
Best regards
-lem
Female and an RF engineer. Look up what it took for that through 2000. I took up
SW as a sideline hobby that bloomed on its own. And I was pretty unique among
the people writing video software such as used in broadcast production
facilities. "Adapt". Learn to dish it out as well as take it. I watched young
men doing that so I did it. It worked. I am not averse to what works.
Looks like me? Maybe one or two out of a 100 or more who were not secretaries. I
learned to bare my teeth at the mere suggestion that I go get the group some
coffee. I learned to look VERY scary. It worked and engendered some humor.
That's how I (over)learned to be assertive. I do not demand 50% of my peers be
women. I simply demand that 100% of my peers carry their load. For THAT I am a
racist fascist.
Screwit do what you will folks. It just hurts to see people take careful aim at
their foot and shoot.
{^_^}
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 20200710 23:51:19, Bill Cole wrote:
On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote:
On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote:
If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are
extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes.
I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by the
use of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and I've never
actually seen one in real life. Do they really exist?
"Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been
raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another
Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. If you want a
direct first-hand explication, hunt down the recent extended rant on Twitter by
Jackie Singh (@find_evil) triggered by the suggestion that the Black Hat
conference was considering a name change and the blowback from that.
When they get upset at words like blacklist I sit bemused if they bothered to
sit back and learn the origination of the N-word. They are calling themselves
black after deploring being called black. So the goal does not seem to be
changing "blacklist". It is simply disruption. If it breaks something, who
cares? Well, I care and don't want to have to fix the carnage from their
(temporary) appeasement. This is particularly true since from here I cannot see
the color of anybody's skin but my own. All I can see is accomplishments. That
is what matters. And declaring that is racist is also declaring that you think
some particular race needs special regard, making you a racist. It's a tricky
word you cannot deploy without revealing it in yourself.
SA is free software. So I get exactly what I pay for, and usually a heck of a
lot more. I'd hate to see it broken. That would break my regard for the
development team, which has taken a couple heavy hits over the years but still
remains relatively high. If having the high regard of users matters let it be
known that another big dose of pain keeping it running will simply move me away.
And there are tools which eventually would break even if foolist and barlist are
synonyms with the latter created due to the former's bad connotations, which are
not bad at all. Eventually foolist goes away or breaks and I have to diagnose
the nonsense. And I am getting too old to bother with nonsense when email
providers have filters I can suffer with or I can simply use something that
works and never upgrade. Either way it would be a loss of one egoboost point to
the developers for whatever that is worth. Bitter experience suggests changes
with no good technical reason for them are dangerous.
{O.O}
Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
On 2020-07-11 00:32, Mark London wrote: Spamassassin is not alone. Quote: "If a lot of people believe in something stupid, it just doesn't stop being stupid".
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 20200710 17:02:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote:
On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote:
If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely
offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes.
I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by the use
of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and I've never actually
seen one in real life. Do they really exist?
-lem
More importantly do they really matter? If they cannot take the discomfort off a
word that they have translated into a false meaning I'd suggest they grow up and
join the real world. Diverting resources from constructive use to a use that
will introduce more points of failure in a working product for no tangible
reward is counter productive.
(And over the years I've grown annoyed at the number of tools I built around
spamassassin must be reinvented with updates. I finally gave up trying to keep
auditing tools running. My favorite development hook from 2.x days vanished in
3.x making diagnosing rule malfunctions messier. What will this NEW nonsense
bring for my endless entertainment?)
{^_^}
Re: Really simple setup guide
fuglu looks nice. it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the bayes as well? On 10/07/2020 23:00, Benny Pedersen wrote: Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-10 11:02: i tried to set up bayes training before but i feel that i was unsuccessful. is there a definitive guide on setting this up on postfix with amavis? if my user were the one that was training it for the other users that would be ideal are you sure you want to use amavis ?, have you considered fuglu ? or even other not so hard to make it work, like spampd ?
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 10 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Bill Cole wrote: "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. Reminds me of left-handed people back when I grew up. In my time children would use chairs with integrated tables that would be fit for _either_ right- or left-handed people. Since there were more right-handed children, left-handed people would have to be more creative to adapt. So far we know: * Terms such as blacklist are a minor annoyance * There's no evidence of "how many people have thought less of SA" because of the use of the term "blacklist" * The change has a very non-zero impact _everywhere_ the software is deployed, as explained by other contributors to this ML If you want a direct first-hand explication, hunt down the recent extended rant on Twitter by Jackie Singh (@find_evil) triggered by the suggestion that the Black Hat conference was considering a name change and the blowback from that. Sure, are you talking about this? https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1279945071371128834 – "The only person on that list who looks anything like me is the head of infosec at Fb" In here she posts a poll asking whether you would apply to be part of a board composing by people that don't look like you – https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1279948068411052045 I can't answer for everybody of course, but I would not care how the current members of a group I wanted to join look. I have been part of many groups that contained people that did not look like me – professional and otherwise. Up to that point in the thread, it seems to me as someone looking for excuses. If I missed something, please point me to it. If I continue to look at her tweets, I find examples such as this: https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1281735488437727233 – she seems surprised that someone would want to choose compatible people to work with. I don't know her or the context, and it is not my place to pass judgement, but I sincerely hope that whomever is in charge has better justification for this change than this lady's tweet rant. I do not know the rules under which ASF and SAP operate, but this thread is evidence that the position you are defending is far from widely shared, and to me, looks very poorly justified. Future software? Sure. Get rid of anything remotely offensive _the next time around_. Start by not using Assassin in the name, Apache in your organization and not mentioning any colors or university degrees. For existing, deployed, critical code? Don't change things to win cookie points. Best regards -lem
Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.
Mark London writes: > Spamassassin is not alone. And that is how dictatorships and injustices are created: blindly following, because a lot of others do. Hitler, Mussolini and Franco where the worst. Luckily we also had the saviours, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. -- Cecil Westerhof Senior Software Engineer LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly offended by the use of these words. I've been working in IT since the 90s, and I've never actually seen one in real life. Do they really exist? "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. If you want a direct first-hand explication, hunt down the recent extended rant on Twitter by Jackie Singh (@find_evil) triggered by the suggestion that the Black Hat conference was considering a name change and the blowback from that. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not For Hire (currently)
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
John Hardin writes:
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, jdow wrote:
>
>> And every ancillary script sysadmins have written has to be rewritten.
>> Every user_prefs has to be rewritten. You are forcing a boatload of
>> hurt on innocent people. This is purely lifting a leg and peeing on
>> something to mark it as YOURS. Isn't that rather selfish?
>> {^_^}
>
> The intent is to be fully backwards-compatible, so it's (hopefully)
> *not* going to be that bad.
The word hopefully makes me feel very secure.
--
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
"Kevin A. McGrail" writes: > A common question we are receiving is what about using this terminology > instead, for example allow/deny. > > The use of welcomelist and blocklist has evolved from discussions since > April and work done creating patches. We found that using these names > of welcomelist and blocklist are non offensive, reasonably descriptive > and since they still start with W and B, we avoid renaming things like > RBLs, WLBL, DNSBL, etc. This should help minimize the disruption when > 4.0 is released with the new configuration options. Yes, reasonable descriptive. While the original is very clear. So in my opinion a very stupid move. -- Cecil Westerhof Senior Software Engineer LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
"Bill Cole" writes: > On 10 Jul 2020, at 5:12, hospice admin wrote: > >> $0.02 from a woman of colour ... >> >> I personally find stuff like this just a little bit patronising ... >> more of a matter of kicking the real problem into the weeds than >> actually doing anything practical to 'fix' it. > > Well, in the context of the Apache SpamAssassin Project, "The Real > Problem" that we have any capacity to work on is the low diversity of > our developer community. Eliminating terminology that may be off-putting > for even a minority of a minority of possible contributors is > worthwhile, particularly when the block/welcome terminology we are > replacing black/white with is explicitly descriptive rather than > metaphorical and connotative. > > We have no way of knowing how many people have thought less of SA > because of terminology or whether any of those people might have > otherwise become involved enough in the project to be contributors. If > changing the terminology makes the Project look less like a bunch of > white guys trying to make rules for the world's email, that's a positive > step. That makes no sense at all. It increases the feeling that you want to appease a little but loudly minority. And probably want to get a warm cosy feeling inside. By the way: should the name of the project not be changed also? Assassin can be very offensive to certain people. This can be changed without dire consequences. Black Lives Matter. White Lives Don't Matter. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8460059/Cambridge-University-backs-academic-tweeted-White-Lives-Dont-Matter.html -- Cecil Westerhof Senior Software Engineer LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof
Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave
sha...@shanew.net writes: > On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, Axb wrote: > >> On 7/10/20 8:31 PM, Bill Cole wrote: >>> The SpamAssassin Project has a particular self-interest in attracting >>> contributors from a diversity of cultures, because we are always at risk >>> of mislabelling a pattern of letters or words as 'spammy' when in fact it >>> is entirely normal in a cultural context other than those of the existing >>> contributors to the project. C >> >> From what I see, until now, only two ppl of the SpamAssasin project >> have supported this motion and intend to impose this quatsch to the >> rest of the world. >> Voices against these changes have been politely ignored. > > The danger of judging the world only by what is within your sight is > that your field of vision is limited, and there are any number of > explanations for why what you see is not representative of the > whole. Maybe giving in to a very small but very loud and aggressive minority is even worse. > Maybe those who agree feel no need to comment. Maybe a lot of people > on either side of the issue want to avoid adding more noise to a list > that's about SpamAssassin. Maybe a lot of people recognized this > wasn't a "motion" or a request for comment at all, but rather notice > of a change to code. Or, as you yourself mention, maybe a lot of > people are just politely ignoring the negative voices. You are doing here what you accuse the people you do not agree with. Are you a democrat. ;-) -- Cecil Westerhof Senior Software Engineer LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof
