Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Hi guys, Thanks a million for your helpful replies. I suppose I get your points and seem to me you all talk along same principle line but focus may be on different segments. So all suggestions and ideas appear coherent to me. Initial support requirement should be very basic, e.g. not including video, gift shop, search or even no blog. The full support may come into being in 2 years time. This is what I am planning to do (tomcat, mySQL have been setup already), will start from one may show in the very beginning, while always keeping an open mind. 1. Design the general architecture of the site (look/feel, page structure, work flow, assets) 1. Study some stuff http://commons.apache.org/ http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/catalog.html dwr https://dwr.dev.java.net/ www.dojotoolkit.org http://extjs.com/ relevant J2EE API documentation bundle (http://lucene.apache.org/) 1. Coding will start from static pages first then into dynamic and multimedia ones. 1. Looking for readily available components/packages which satisfy my requirements, but maybe not a grand platform/framework!? (Still not 100/% sure since in general, with an appropriate framework, it may have packaged all those components/packages I need – not sure if such a framework/platform does exist though!) Still a very long way to go. Any guidance would be most appreciated! Best regards to all of you. Mark
Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Download Tomcat and the relevant J2EE API documentation bundle, then goto the MySQL site and get the driver then go http://commons.apache.org/ and get all sorts of stuff. Finally read http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/catalog.html (maybe this should be the other way around) This really is all you need. learning a framework is an overhead you can do without if you are getting into J2EE. I used to use Struts and JSF and Castor and lot's of other stuff but I found I was spending more time learning how to configure the framework than I was developing. My latest site has most of what you mention and not a framework in site. Follow the patterns, write cohesive POJOs and hide the business logic behind facades. Use the commons stuff, it works, it's free and it's documented (to a degree). I even used to eschew taglibs but I'm a convert now so use them where you can. NEVER put business logic anywhere other than in POJOs (or EJBs if you must) and never do anything other than rendering in jsp's. Use css, everywhere, all the time ... IE 6 is broken but most of the latest browsers are pretty good these days IMHO. div good, table bad (well not quite). Stick to this and you will be writing websites and earning money for the rest of your working life while others struggle to get heir head around the latest bloated XML nightmare config, docubabble latest greatest framework. Madness ? perhaps, but I spend my time learning the Java/J2EE APIs rather than reading framework documentation and I am never out of work. Lights blue touchpaper and retires Good Luck Lyallex On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:01 AM, qm westview [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Hi there,* *I am an application programmer (Java, PHP) and almost new to web development. I am currently investigating as to what is the most appropriate/applicable open source platform/framework to develop a web site (simple to start but more comprehensive into the future) for tourism or tourist attractions. The following lists the basic support requirements (mainly multimedia, interactivity and future proof) * *1. XHTML, JavaScript, Ajax* *2. Multimedia – images, slides show, music, videos* *3. Simple blogging facility * *4. Community, Feedbacks * *5. Emailing for registered users (regular news release)* *6. Database (mySQL or similar)* *7. Search ability (text based)* *8. Shopping facility (online, gift etc)* *9. Management facility* *I have seen some CMS type of open system, such as Xoops, Lenya, Daisy, etc. But I do not have enough knowledge to make any choice decision. Just wondered if any experienced people here could help me or shed some lights please. * *I am a techi person and wouldn't mind the complicity of technology so long as the job can be done efficiently and effectively and low cost.* *Many thanks in advance,* *Mark* - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
I actually agree with Lyallex quite strongly, I found very little value in *any* of the frameworks out there today, and in fact I'm starting to believe most of them are counterproductive. However, that's not to say I think plain servlets and JSPs is the absolute best answer either... since Ajax is one of the listed requirements I would highly suggest looking at DWR. I've found that DWR, plus a good widget library on the client (ExtJS was my choice until the recent licensing change) was all you need nowadays. I tend to use bits and pieces of Spring too, mostly Spring JDBC because I believe straight JDBC is the right answer and Spring JDBC makes that better, but I'll pick and choose other pieces as the needs come up. But I think DWR is the key. If you're developing a modern RIA, I don't believe there is currently a better option. The really great thing about it is that it leads you quite naturally down a certain architectural path: POJOs on the server, a simple RPC-like mid-tier design, simple, logical coding on the front-end, etc. I've been involved in a massively complex project at work the past two years, one of the biggest success stories in my company's history actually... we started off using Dojo for Ajax and Struts on the server-side... that worked reasonably well... however, for the last 6-9 months we've been developing all the new capabilities in the application with DWR replacing both of those, and it's a world of difference. New developers, some of which have little to no experience in Java web development, are able to pick it up so much quicker, it's so much easier to get things done initially, and troubleshooting is much easier because there's simply less moving parts, and it simply *feels* simpler. We've been able to deal with changing requirements quickly and easily. Being able to see the two approaches in the same application really makes it obvious which is better and why. In fact, most of the newest functionality is done in what I consider the holy grail of approaches: a single JSP design. There's no longer this page-request-response-new page cycle, it simply isn't necessary. Yes, you have to fully buy into this whole RIA thing, and you have to be comfortable doing a lot in Javascript, but if you are I think this is nearly a perfect way to do things. That's just my opinion of course, I know many people don't agree. All I can say is I've got a ton of real-world experience with non-trivial enterprise-class applications that support it. Frank P.S. - Is that your real name by the way Layallex? If so, I've never heard it before, but it's pretty cool!) -- Frank W. Zammetti Author of Practical DWR 2 Projects and Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects and Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology for info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammettiact=search Java Web Parts - javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! My only partially serious blog: zammetti.com/blog Lyallex wrote: Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Download Tomcat and the relevant J2EE API documentation bundle, then goto the MySQL site and get the driver then go http://commons.apache.org/ and get all sorts of stuff. Finally read http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/catalog.html (maybe this should be the other way around) This really is all you need. learning a framework is an overhead you can do without if you are getting into J2EE. I used to use Struts and JSF and Castor and lot's of other stuff but I found I was spending more time learning how to configure the framework than I was developing. My latest site has most of what you mention and not a framework in site. Follow the patterns, write cohesive POJOs and hide the business logic behind facades. Use the commons stuff, it works, it's free and it's documented (to a degree). I even used to eschew taglibs but I'm a convert now so use them where you can. NEVER put business logic anywhere other than in POJOs (or EJBs if you must) and never do anything other than rendering in jsp's. Use css, everywhere, all the time ... IE 6 is broken but most of the latest browsers are pretty good these days IMHO. div good, table bad (well not quite). Stick to this and you will be writing websites and earning money for the rest of your working life while others struggle to get heir head around the latest bloated XML nightmare config, docubabble latest greatest framework. Madness ? perhaps, but I spend my time learning the Java/J2EE APIs rather than reading framework documentation and I am never out of work. Lights blue touchpaper and retires Good Luck Lyallex On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:01 AM, qm westview [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Hi there,* *I am an application programmer (Java, PHP) and
[OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
From: Lyallex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Many of the OP's requirements are for existing tools. Blog, shopping cart and the like. Developing those from scratch is rather like gathering the coal, clay and iron ore to make your own oven to smelt your own iron ore to make your own axe to cut down your own tree to make your own log cabin. You *can*, and you get a lot of satisfaction from it, but it's a lot easier to spend less time working for someone else, then rent a house. Sure, it might not be quite what you'd build yourself... but you get most of what you want a *lot* quicker. So, to the OP, I'd say: compare the big systems that you mention. Take a tour of each. Install a few. You might spend a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months doing this. Then pick one and go for it. You'll have your system running - and customers using it - while Lyallex is still building the data access layer for the no-framework one. - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually agree with Lyallex quite strongly, ..no, you don't, you can't, well actually you do, so I'm not going mad then, fabulous. No Idea what DWR is and the idea of writing more of my app in javascript leaves me a little cold but I'll have a look BTW OP, the best way to learn about this stuff is just to read this list, someone will mention something you've never heard of before so you go look at it and you get a 'hey I could use that' moment it works for me. P.S. - Is that your real name by the way Layallex? If so, I've never heard it before, but it's pretty cool!) Actually Frank I've been lurking around on this list for as long as I care to remember, I try to help where I can but mostly it makes me laugh and I learn something new every day. 'nuff reason I guess. As for Lyallex, well it's a long (long) story. Cheers Lyallex -- Frank W. Zammetti Author of Practical DWR 2 Projects and Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects and Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology for info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammettiact=search Java Web Parts - javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! My only partially serious blog: zammetti.com/blog Lyallex wrote: Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Download Tomcat and the relevant J2EE API documentation bundle, then goto the MySQL site and get the driver then go http://commons.apache.org/ and get all sorts of stuff. Finally read http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/catalog.html (maybe this should be the other way around) This really is all you need. learning a framework is an overhead you can do without if you are getting into J2EE. I used to use Struts and JSF and Castor and lot's of other stuff but I found I was spending more time learning how to configure the framework than I was developing. My latest site has most of what you mention and not a framework in site. Follow the patterns, write cohesive POJOs and hide the business logic behind facades. Use the commons stuff, it works, it's free and it's documented (to a degree). I even used to eschew taglibs but I'm a convert now so use them where you can. NEVER put business logic anywhere other than in POJOs (or EJBs if you must) and never do anything other than rendering in jsp's. Use css, everywhere, all the time ... IE 6 is broken but most of the latest browsers are pretty good these days IMHO. div good, table bad (well not quite). Stick to this and you will be writing websites and earning money for the rest of your working life while others struggle to get heir head around the latest bloated XML nightmare config, docubabble latest greatest framework. Madness ? perhaps, but I spend my time learning the Java/J2EE APIs rather than reading framework documentation and I am never out of work. Lights blue touchpaper and retires Good Luck Lyallex On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:01 AM, qm westview [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Hi there,* *I am an application programmer (Java, PHP) and almost new to web development. I am currently investigating as to what is the most appropriate/applicable open source platform/framework to develop a web site (simple to start but more comprehensive into the future) for tourism or tourist attractions. The following lists the basic support requirements (mainly multimedia, interactivity and future proof) * *1. XHTML, JavaScript, Ajax* *2. Multimedia – images, slides show, music, videos* *3. Simple blogging facility * *4. Community, Feedbacks * *5. Emailing for registered users (regular news release)* *6. Database (mySQL or similar)* *7. Search ability (text based)* *8. Shopping facility (online, gift etc)* *9. Management facility* *I have seen some CMS type of open system, such as Xoops, Lenya, Daisy, etc. But I do not have enough knowledge to make any choice decision. Just wondered if any experienced people here could help me or shed some lights please. * *I am a techi person and wouldn't mind the complicity of technology so long as the job can be done efficiently and effectively and low cost.* *Many thanks in advance,* *Mark* - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For
Re: [OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Peter Never suggested the OP develop carts and such like from scratch really did I. What I said was he should focus on learning the core APIs, that's a little different. Building your own business logic is a requirement whatever framework you use (or don't use). If you can tell me where to find reusable business logic then that will certainly save me time, I'd still want to know how it worked though so black boxes are useless. If, when you know the core you decide to rot your brain and spend frustrating days trying to configure some bloody minded framework then go for it, at least you'll have some idea where to look when it doesn't work (they NEVER work first time in my experience). Anyway OP, hope this little discussion has cleared things up for you :-)) Cheers Lyallex On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Peter Crowther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Lyallex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Many of the OP's requirements are for existing tools. Blog, shopping cart and the like. Developing those from scratch is rather like gathering the coal, clay and iron ore to make your own oven to smelt your own iron ore to make your own axe to cut down your own tree to make your own log cabin. You *can*, and you get a lot of satisfaction from it, but it's a lot easier to spend less time working for someone else, then rent a house. Sure, it might not be quite what you'd build yourself... but you get most of what you want a *lot* quicker. So, to the OP, I'd say: compare the big systems that you mention. Take a tour of each. Install a few. You might spend a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months doing this. Then pick one and go for it. You'll have your system running - and customers using it - while Lyallex is still building the data access layer for the no-framework one. - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Peter's point is valid though... you could certainly build the site in PHP for example and just drop in a bunch of pre-existing modules for a shopping cart, blog, that sort of thing, then just write some basic PHP pages to tie it all together. For example, my web host has this Fantastico thing on their admin interface where I can pick and choose PHP application just like those mentioned... it automatically does the MySQL setup, creates the directories, does all the required installation, and a minute or so later I have myself a blog, a shopping cart, whatever. That gets installed into my main site's directory structure, so all I'd need to do then is some write some basic PHP to clump all those modules together into some sort of coherent site. If *that's* what the OP was looking for, then Peter's point is valid, there's options besides coding it all from scratch. It's only if someone wants to code it all themselves that your (and my) points come into play. Frank Frank W. Zammetti Author of Practical DWR 2 Projects and Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects and Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology for info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammettiact=search Java Web Parts - javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! My look ma, I have a blog too! blog: zammetti.com/blog Lyallex wrote: Peter Never suggested the OP develop carts and such like from scratch really did I. What I said was he should focus on learning the core APIs, that's a little different. Building your own business logic is a requirement whatever framework you use (or don't use). If you can tell me where to find reusable business logic then that will certainly save me time, I'd still want to know how it worked though so black boxes are useless. If, when you know the core you decide to rot your brain and spend frustrating days trying to configure some bloody minded framework then go for it, at least you'll have some idea where to look when it doesn't work (they NEVER work first time in my experience). Anyway OP, hope this little discussion has cleared things up for you :-)) Cheers Lyallex On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Peter Crowther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Lyallex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Many of the OP's requirements are for existing tools. Blog, shopping cart and the like. Developing those from scratch is rather like gathering the coal, clay and iron ore to make your own oven to smelt your own iron ore to make your own axe to cut down your own tree to make your own log cabin. You *can*, and you get a lot of satisfaction from it, but it's a lot easier to spend less time working for someone else, then rent a house. Sure, it might not be quite what you'd build yourself... but you get most of what you want a *lot* quicker. So, to the OP, I'd say: compare the big systems that you mention. Take a tour of each. Install a few. You might spend a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months doing this. Then pick one and go for it. You'll have your system running - and customers using it - while Lyallex is still building the data access layer for the no-framework one. - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Lyallex wrote: Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Download Tomcat and the relevant J2EE API documentation bundle, then goto the MySQL site and get the driver then go http://commons.apache.org/ and get all sorts of stuff. Finally read http://java.sun.com/blueprints/patterns/catalog.html (maybe this should be the other way around) This really is all you need. learning a framework is an overhead you can do without if you are getting into J2EE. I used to use Struts and JSF and Castor and lot's of other stuff but I found I was spending more time learning how to configure the framework than I was developing. My latest site has most of what you mention and not a framework in site. Follow the patterns, write cohesive POJOs and hide the business logic behind facades. Use the commons stuff, it works, it's free and it's documented (to a degree). I even used to eschew taglibs but I'm a convert now so use them where you can. NEVER put business logic anywhere other than in POJOs (or EJBs if you must) and never do anything other than rendering in jsp's. Use css, everywhere, all the time ... IE 6 is broken but most of the latest browsers are pretty good these days IMHO. div good, table bad (well not quite). Stick to this and you will be writing websites and earning money for the rest of your working life while others struggle to get heir head around the latest bloated XML nightmare config, docubabble latest greatest framework. Madness ? perhaps, but I spend my time learning the Java/J2EE APIs rather than reading framework documentation and I am never out of work. Lights blue touchpaper and retires Good Luck Lyallex On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:01 AM, qm westview [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Hi there,* *I am an application programmer (Java, PHP) and almost new to web development. I am currently investigating as to what is the most appropriate/applicable open source platform/framework to develop a web site (simple to start but more comprehensive into the future) for tourism or tourist attractions. The following lists the basic support requirements (mainly multimedia, interactivity and future proof) * *1. XHTML, JavaScript, Ajax* *2. Multimedia – images, slides show, music, videos* *3. Simple blogging facility * *4. Community, Feedbacks * *5. Emailing for registered users (regular news release)* *6. Database (mySQL or similar)* *7. Search ability (text based)* *8. Shopping facility (online, gift etc)* *9. Management facility* *I have seen some CMS type of open system, such as Xoops, Lenya, Daisy, etc. But I do not have enough knowledge to make any choice decision. Just wondered if any experienced people here could help me or shed some lights please. * *I am a techi person and wouldn't mind the complicity of technology so long as the job can be done efficiently and effectively and low cost.* *Many thanks in advance,* *Mark* Seconded!! D - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Peter Crowther wrote: From: Lyallex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site Greetings I guess given the lack of replies that most think this is too OT for this list, well I suppose it is but I couldn't resist answering. Don't Do It That is, don't use any framework at all. Many of the OP's requirements are for existing tools. Blog, shopping cart and the like. Developing those from scratch is rather like gathering the coal, clay and iron ore to make your own oven to smelt your own iron ore to make your own axe to cut down your own tree to make your own log cabin. You *can*, and you get a lot of satisfaction from it, but it's a lot easier to spend less time working for someone else, then rent a house. Sure, it might not be quite what you'd build yourself... but you get most of what you want a *lot* quicker. Not using a framework isn't quite the same thing as not using available packages and libraries. I haven't looked because we don't use them, but I'll bet there are plenty of 3rd party java library packages out there to generate blogs, shopping carts and the like, so you don't have to code them from scratch. D - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
From: David kerber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Not using a framework isn't quite the same thing as not using available packages and libraries. Entirely true. However, many (though not all) of the existing packages assume particular frameworks. If anyone wants a glimpse of a possible nightmare future where a system tries to support multiple UI frameworks, look at Sakai - they have everything from Velocity to JSF to RSF (Reasonable Server Faces, their version of JSF that's lighter weight) and 3-4 other frameworks thrown in. Now try adding functionality that cuts across tools written assuming different frameworks I haven't looked because we don't use them, but I'll bet there are plenty of 3rd party java library packages out there to generate blogs, shopping carts and the like, so you don't have to code them from scratch. Plenty. My reading of the OP's message was that they were trying to make a choice between the available systems rather than code from scratch - and that they hadn't decided (and didn't particularly care) whether the whole thing was written in Java or PHP, as they weren't presently a Web developer and would be learning on the job. *For that purpose*, I'd suggest that picking a system that does much of what one wants is the way to go. I agree with others on the list that *for other purposes* starting at the basics and working up is the way to go. I may have a different view of what basics is, given that I *think* I still carry around enough in my head that I could design a functional (if basic) computer from the discrete components up through instruction set, microcode if absolutely required, I/O, OS to applications ;-). I wish all developers could think down to bare metal level, and beyond - it gives a very solid grounding in *why* to code in a particular way. - Peter - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
Peter Crowther wrote: From: David kerber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Not using a framework isn't quite the same thing as not using available packages and libraries. Entirely true. However, many (though not all) of the existing packages assume particular frameworks. If anyone wants a glimpse of a possible nightmare future where a system tries to support multiple UI frameworks, look at Sakai - they have everything from Velocity to JSF to RSF (Reasonable Server Faces, their version of JSF that's lighter weight) and 3-4 other frameworks thrown in. Now try adding functionality that cuts across tools written assuming different frameworks I haven't looked because we don't use them, but I'll bet there are plenty of 3rd party java library packages out there to generate blogs, shopping carts and the like, so you don't have to code them from scratch. Plenty. My reading of the OP's message was that they were trying to make a choice between the available systems rather than code from scratch - and that they hadn't decided (and didn't particularly care) whether the whole thing was written in Java or PHP, as they weren't presently a Web developer and would be learning on the job. *For that purpose*, I'd suggest that picking a system that does much of what one wants is the way to go. I agree with others on the list that *for other Yes, I'd agree with that, if he's still making that fundamental of a project decision. I had interpreted the OP to mean he was going to be working with java, but wasn't sure which (if any) framework to use within that already-made decision. D - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] RE: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
I agree with others on the list that *for other purposes* starting at the basics and working up is the way to go. I may have a different view of what basics is, given that I *think* I still carry around enough in my head that I could design a functional (if basic) computer from the discrete components up through instruction set, microcode if absolutely required, I/O, OS to applications ;-). I wish all developers could think down to bare metal level, and beyond - it gives a very solid grounding in *why* to code in a particular way. - Peter Well here I have to agree with you, I spent many happy hours in the compsci labs messing about with a Motorolla 68000 processor. I was lucky enough to be in the last cohort at my university to get a thorough grounding in computer architecture (Course Book 'Structured Computer Organization' by Andrew S Tannenbaum). A fantastic course and absolutely essential IMHO. I think it's been replaced with 'Business and Society' or something now, shame. I totally agree with using and reusing existing components. I use lots of commons components all the time and as for Lucene (http://lucene.apache.org/) well it's the absolute dogs danglers isn't it ? I just think that a framework as a starting point is one layer too far for a beginner to web development. Anyway, let us know how you get on OP. Cheers Lyallex Just my two quids worth - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site
--- HARBOR: http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm The most powerful application server on earth. The only real POJO Application Server. Making the Java dream come true. --- - Original Message - From: qm westview [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Seeking advice as to what platform/framework to use for developing a tourism/tourist attractions web site Da question is too beg ;) All the other comments are valid, and the problem is you look like a programmer, but talk like an admin dude ;) The issue with frameworks is that there is often lock in somewhere and you can get stuck, or find yourself in a one way street, that may end up being a dead end, and thats the warning and good advice you hearing here. I think that you can break it down, into fairly safe modular components. Like look at Wikipedia, if you like it, get that engine, if you like the format of the Apache mailing lists, get that engine... Then for the web end... Apache Server and Tomcat is a safe and flexible solution, I would say, a must have... you can play with how much you want in Apache and how much you want in Tomcat... they go well together. I think you'll find Tomcat very useful when it comes to the biz logic and integration with the rest of the company, because from the look of things, this is just half the story, there are going to be booking agents sitting at terminals, interfacing with airline booking systems, its actually a massive job you got on your hands, and I would say, too big for one person... hire some of the guru's you find in here. I would say, that even if you are going to go modular, learning Tomcat and Apache is something you have to do, and I think that very high level management systems, like the content management systems you looking at, is not going to be for you, because by the time you start bringing in things like hotel vouchers and all the rest, you are going to have to engineer it at that level... a framework at that level will probably get in the way. I would say... go modular, but get some help as well... its too beeg. You probably going to just need one guy on all the Flash-verts How much video... at web serving level or a full blown video server? Tomcat is most definitely a core component in this system... but you not going to be able to plug and play a whole travel agency... you on a massive learning curve now. Hope you havent quoted already ;) Good Luck *Hi there,* *I am an application programmer (Java, PHP) and almost new to web development. I am currently investigating as to what is the most appropriate/applicable open source platform/framework to develop a web site (simple to start but more comprehensive into the future) for tourism or tourist attractions. The following lists the basic support requirements (mainly multimedia, interactivity and future proof) * *1. XHTML, JavaScript, Ajax* *2. Multimedia – images, slides show, music, videos* *3. Simple blogging facility * *4. Community, Feedbacks * *5. Emailing for registered users (regular news release)* *6. Database (mySQL or similar)* *7. Search ability (text based)* *8. Shopping facility (online, gift etc)* *9. Management facility* *I have seen some CMS type of open system, such as Xoops, Lenya, Daisy, etc. But I do not have enough knowledge to make any choice decision. Just wondered if any experienced people here could help me or shed some lights please. * *I am a techi person and wouldn't mind the complicity of technology so long as the job can be done efficiently and effectively and low cost.* *Many thanks in advance,* *Mark* - To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
