Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Andrew, I have not come to any conclusions beyond... nothing much has changed due to the writer's strike. How do you feel now? Besides, its about 6 months later so we can talk about the inevitable bla bla bla which was the original intent of this thread. So what's the current state? Videoblogging Week how's it going? Sull On Tue, Dec 25, 2007 at 3:03 PM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 24, 2007 10:41 PM, Andrew Baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 24, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Sull wrote: i'm glad you received appreciation and offers based on that post... but i can assure you...or maybe at least bet... that if it were I or many others that tossed that blog post up no such offers, publicity or appreciation would result. This is probably what I disagree with more than just about anything in this whole thread. You know what most of the stuff people on Techmeme and Twitter are talking about? Something that one person out of nowhere had some insight on and thus caused everyone into a fury. If you really believe in something, dont just assume no one will listen to you and be quiet. That comment was a setup to my real question to you... the one you decided not to answer. Still, in response to: It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I'm simply contrasting the weight your post has been given elsewhere with what you expected here on this list (and within a timeframe that you deem acceptable) and my opinion that these stated forms of attention that your post received is not the norm. Sure, people will read and listen to anyone who has something to say. I am not suggesting the extreme slant that you have insinutated... where i am to believe that it's not worth expressing ones opinions and insights... please. I just think that when you compare an offer to be on a discussion panel to a lack of response here... is just exaggerative babble. I feel like this with the group while trying to discuss the writers strike. The implications of the strike are so perfectly tied into the subject matter that so many people here discuss, its just *weird* its not on any ones radar. To here you and Jay say you are sleeping through this one makes me feel like you have been bitten by vampires and have turned into zombies. :D I did not say or suggest that i was going to sleep through this topic. I did say that your post did not excite me to reply here or on your blog. Mostly because i feel you are jumping the gun in some aspects and also because I would like to take some time to think about the topic.. do some of my own research (including comparisons to historical events) and just get a better grip on what I feel is happening here and how things may pan out. Is that ok? Early predictions mean little to me. If I need to witness this event for another month (since it is on my radar ;)... before jumping in with any grand insights here or elsewhere so be it. Sure, this IS an interesting time for the TV Entertainment industry. Some of what you say may end up being accurate. Or not. My initial reaction was that you are over-analyzing and over_emphasizing how fucked the Studios are. So I'll think about it some more, as I already said in my last post here (meaning I will likely reply later and not be a Zombie to the issue). The real point i was making is... your blog post and request for thoughts here... and the state of this mailing list should not be correlated. I dont think thats fair, especially in the last week of the year. Cheers. Sull [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Thanks Irina. Maureen certainly smells good. Me on the other hand, well ... ... Stinky On Jan 12, 2008 6:53 AM, Irina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i know more than your name! i know that your wife is the best smellingwife inamerica! On Jan 9, 2008 1:56 PM, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]richard%40richardshow.org wrote: Well, I'm way behind reading my emails for this group. I finally made a filter in gmail so that all the group ones are tagged and moved from the inbos and there were 300 threads in there and I'm down to 160. However, I did not delete any of these threads without reading, because I LOVE THIS GROUP This was my favorite thread of the 140 I've read so far - great drama! Many posts made me feel all sorts of great emotions, holier than thou emotions, hell yeah emotions - shock - horrer and lots of memories of the friends I've made in the last few years - I'm thinking ... ... Scoble - how cool, a big whig posts on MY list ... how could he possibly say mean things about MY group ... now I remember, I don't even like him, since I met him once and he didn't even know my name (if you can believe that) ... yeah, my buddy Bill made a perfect post, and he knows my name ... Jay and Ryanne - perfect posts as usual, and they know my name (unlike that dumb Scoble) ... yeah, and Chuck posts - that's so cool I played WII (sp?) bowling with him, and he totally knows my name, and makes the sort of comment you'd expect from a nice guy like him ... oh cool! Jason Calacanus, another big wig - I even wrote him off list once to tell him that I thought he was very entertaining on this week in tech, no matter how much the vlog list abused him for his posts about money, but, luckily I didn't post that to the list, so no one will know (wait, did I think that or write that?) ... I met Frank at Pixelodean - although there is the problem that I don't think he knew who I was, he still seemed pretty cool, and, well, you have to like mefeedia - and, well, he said nice stuff about MY group ... oh that is so cool, a post from Adam! ... He always says the coolest stuff like As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. ... and Irina loves Adam and Jay ... I love all three of them totally ... Irina totally knows my name too, by the way, and Adam, well, I slept in his apartment - not with him or anything but he totally knows my name too ... Andrew Baron - another big wig, and he sort of knows my name, seriously - ok, ok, I admit I saw the post about future of TV and TV networks dead and everything, but, well, who wants to read about that stuff, when I can read this thread ... Sull - cool guy, met him at original vloggercue - long/articulate posts, but don't see too much good drama in this one, just smart stuff ... hmmm ... Eric Rice is back, like the old days, cool - raping puppies - cute puppies? - Eric was one of the first to every bring up money in vlogging that I recall - very courageous ... Cool, a post from Charles - totally my buddy and totally knows my name - yes, it's like siblings ... I'm definitely the older brother ... and Schlomo, this is so cool, everybody who knows my name is posting - but, what, Scholmo's being crititcal of Jay?? - total drama - and Jay was critical on the Wiki?? - say it's not so - I thought he was perfect - damn bubble bursting ... Richard Bluestein,well, that's pretty much as cool as it gets and I once got a special url to post to Evil Vlog, and it is turdwobbler.com ... but it's secret and no one will ever know it's mild mannered Richard Show Hall (wait, did I write that or ... ) ... and Mike Meiser, what a guy - really long emails and he can totally be grumpy on the list, especially when it comes to wikipedia, but, he not only knows my name, but was particualrly nice to me at vloggercon, so he's got to be good, and he's making fun of that dumb big wig, who doesn't know my name ... now that's entertainment! I love you all with lots of kisses and hugs ... Richard (the center of the vlog universe) On Dec 26, 2007 3:10 AM, Rupert Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED]rupert%40fatgirlinohio.org rupert%40fatgirlinohio.org wrote: You're funny. Happy Christmas, everybody. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
i know more than your name! i know that your wife is the best smellingwife inamerica! On Jan 9, 2008 1:56 PM, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I'm way behind reading my emails for this group. I finally made a filter in gmail so that all the group ones are tagged and moved from the inbos and there were 300 threads in there and I'm down to 160. However, I did not delete any of these threads without reading, because I LOVE THIS GROUP This was my favorite thread of the 140 I've read so far - great drama! Many posts made me feel all sorts of great emotions, holier than thou emotions, hell yeah emotions - shock - horrer and lots of memories of the friends I've made in the last few years - I'm thinking ... ... Scoble - how cool, a big whig posts on MY list ... how could he possibly say mean things about MY group ... now I remember, I don't even like him, since I met him once and he didn't even know my name (if you can believe that) ... yeah, my buddy Bill made a perfect post, and he knows my name ... Jay and Ryanne - perfect posts as usual, and they know my name (unlike that dumb Scoble) ... yeah, and Chuck posts - that's so cool I played WII (sp?) bowling with him, and he totally knows my name, and makes the sort of comment you'd expect from a nice guy like him ... oh cool! Jason Calacanus, another big wig - I even wrote him off list once to tell him that I thought he was very entertaining on this week in tech, no matter how much the vlog list abused him for his posts about money, but, luckily I didn't post that to the list, so no one will know (wait, did I think that or write that?) ... I met Frank at Pixelodean - although there is the problem that I don't think he knew who I was, he still seemed pretty cool, and, well, you have to like mefeedia - and, well, he said nice stuff about MY group ... oh that is so cool, a post from Adam! ... He always says the coolest stuff like As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. ... and Irina loves Adam and Jay ... I love all three of them totally ... Irina totally knows my name too, by the way, and Adam, well, I slept in his apartment - not with him or anything but he totally knows my name too ... Andrew Baron - another big wig, and he sort of knows my name, seriously - ok, ok, I admit I saw the post about future of TV and TV networks dead and everything, but, well, who wants to read about that stuff, when I can read this thread ... Sull - cool guy, met him at original vloggercue - long/articulate posts, but don't see too much good drama in this one, just smart stuff ... hmmm ... Eric Rice is back, like the old days, cool - raping puppies - cute puppies? - Eric was one of the first to every bring up money in vlogging that I recall - very courageous ... Cool, a post from Charles - totally my buddy and totally knows my name - yes, it's like siblings ... I'm definitely the older brother ... and Schlomo, this is so cool, everybody who knows my name is posting - but, what, Scholmo's being crititcal of Jay?? - total drama - and Jay was critical on the Wiki?? - say it's not so - I thought he was perfect - damn bubble bursting ... Richard Bluestein,well, that's pretty much as cool as it gets and I once got a special url to post to Evil Vlog, and it is turdwobbler.com ... but it's secret and no one will ever know it's mild mannered Richard Show Hall (wait, did I write that or ... ) ... and Mike Meiser, what a guy - really long emails and he can totally be grumpy on the list, especially when it comes to wikipedia, but, he not only knows my name, but was particualrly nice to me at vloggercon, so he's got to be good, and he's making fun of that dumb big wig, who doesn't know my name ... now that's entertainment! I love you all with lots of kisses and hugs ... Richard (the center of the vlog universe) On Dec 26, 2007 3:10 AM, Rupert Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED]rupert%40fatgirlinohio.org wrote: You're funny. Happy Christmas, everybody. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Well, I'm way behind reading my emails for this group. I finally made a filter in gmail so that all the group ones are tagged and moved from the inbos and there were 300 threads in there and I'm down to 160. However, I did not delete any of these threads without reading, because I LOVE THIS GROUP This was my favorite thread of the 140 I've read so far - great drama! Many posts made me feel all sorts of great emotions, holier than thou emotions, hell yeah emotions - shock - horrer and lots of memories of the friends I've made in the last few years - I'm thinking ... ... Scoble - how cool, a big whig posts on MY list ... how could he possibly say mean things about MY group ... now I remember, I don't even like him, since I met him once and he didn't even know my name (if you can believe that) ... yeah, my buddy Bill made a perfect post, and he knows my name ... Jay and Ryanne - perfect posts as usual, and they know my name (unlike that dumb Scoble) ... yeah, and Chuck posts - that's so cool I played WII (sp?) bowling with him, and he totally knows my name, and makes the sort of comment you'd expect from a nice guy like him ... oh cool! Jason Calacanus, another big wig - I even wrote him off list once to tell him that I thought he was very entertaining on this week in tech, no matter how much the vlog list abused him for his posts about money, but, luckily I didn't post that to the list, so no one will know (wait, did I think that or write that?) ... I met Frank at Pixelodean - although there is the problem that I don't think he knew who I was, he still seemed pretty cool, and, well, you have to like mefeedia - and, well, he said nice stuff about MY group ... oh that is so cool, a post from Adam! ... He always says the coolest stuff like As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. ... and Irina loves Adam and Jay ... I love all three of them totally ... Irina totally knows my name too, by the way, and Adam, well, I slept in his apartment - not with him or anything but he totally knows my name too ... Andrew Baron - another big wig, and he sort of knows my name, seriously - ok, ok, I admit I saw the post about future of TV and TV networks dead and everything, but, well, who wants to read about that stuff, when I can read this thread ... Sull - cool guy, met him at original vloggercue - long/articulate posts, but don't see too much good drama in this one, just smart stuff ... hmmm ... Eric Rice is back, like the old days, cool - raping puppies - cute puppies? - Eric was one of the first to every bring up money in vlogging that I recall - very courageous ... Cool, a post from Charles - totally my buddy and totally knows my name - yes, it's like siblings ... I'm definitely the older brother ... and Schlomo, this is so cool, everybody who knows my name is posting - but, what, Scholmo's being crititcal of Jay?? - total drama - and Jay was critical on the Wiki?? - say it's not so - I thought he was perfect - damn bubble bursting ... Richard Bluestein,well, that's pretty much as cool as it gets and I once got a special url to post to Evil Vlog, and it is turdwobbler.com ... but it's secret and no one will ever know it's mild mannered Richard Show Hall (wait, did I write that or ... ) ... and Mike Meiser, what a guy - really long emails and he can totally be grumpy on the list, especially when it comes to wikipedia, but, he not only knows my name, but was particualrly nice to me at vloggercon, so he's got to be good, and he's making fun of that dumb big wig, who doesn't know my name ... now that's entertainment! I love you all with lots of kisses and hugs ... Richard (the center of the vlog universe) On Dec 26, 2007 3:10 AM, Rupert Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're funny. Happy Christmas, everybody. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled. As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. You don't hear people complaining about Da Vinci taking money to paint the last supper. JC was the original product placement. Does anyone
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
hell even i know who you are On Jan 9, 2008 4:56 PM, Richard (Show) Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I'm way behind reading my emails for this group. I finally made a filter in gmail so that all the group ones are tagged and moved from the inbos and there were 300 threads in there and I'm down to 160. However, I did not delete any of these threads without reading, because I LOVE THIS GROUP This was my favorite thread of the 140 I've read so far - great drama! Many posts made me feel all sorts of great emotions, holier than thou emotions, hell yeah emotions - shock - horrer and lots of memories of the friends I've made in the last few years - I'm thinking ... ... Scoble - how cool, a big whig posts on MY list ... how could he possibly say mean things about MY group ... now I remember, I don't even like him, since I met him once and he didn't even know my name (if you can believe that) ... yeah, my buddy Bill made a perfect post, and he knows my name ... Jay and Ryanne - perfect posts as usual, and they know my name (unlike that dumb Scoble) ... yeah, and Chuck posts - that's so cool I played WII (sp?) bowling with him, and he totally knows my name, and makes the sort of comment you'd expect from a nice guy like him ... oh cool! Jason Calacanus, another big wig - I even wrote him off list once to tell him that I thought he was very entertaining on this week in tech, no matter how much the vlog list abused him for his posts about money, but, luckily I didn't post that to the list, so no one will know (wait, did I think that or write that?) ... I met Frank at Pixelodean - although there is the problem that I don't think he knew who I was, he still seemed pretty cool, and, well, you have to like mefeedia - and, well, he said nice stuff about MY group ... oh that is so cool, a post from Adam! ... He always says the coolest stuff like As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. ... and Irina loves Adam and Jay ... I love all three of them totally ... Irina totally knows my name too, by the way, and Adam, well, I slept in his apartment - not with him or anything but he totally knows my name too ... Andrew Baron - another big wig, and he sort of knows my name, seriously - ok, ok, I admit I saw the post about future of TV and TV networks dead and everything, but, well, who wants to read about that stuff, when I can read this thread ... Sull - cool guy, met him at original vloggercue - long/articulate posts, but don't see too much good drama in this one, just smart stuff ... hmmm ... Eric Rice is back, like the old days, cool - raping puppies - cute puppies? - Eric was one of the first to every bring up money in vlogging that I recall - very courageous ... Cool, a post from Charles - totally my buddy and totally knows my name - yes, it's like siblings ... I'm definitely the older brother ... and Schlomo, this is so cool, everybody who knows my name is posting - but, what, Scholmo's being crititcal of Jay?? - total drama - and Jay was critical on the Wiki?? - say it's not so - I thought he was perfect - damn bubble bursting ... Richard Bluestein,well, that's pretty much as cool as it gets and I once got a special url to post to Evil Vlog, and it is turdwobbler.com ... but it's secret and no one will ever know it's mild mannered Richard Show Hall (wait, did I write that or ... ) ... and Mike Meiser, what a guy - really long emails and he can totally be grumpy on the list, especially when it comes to wikipedia, but, he not only knows my name, but was particualrly nice to me at vloggercon, so he's got to be good, and he's making fun of that dumb big wig, who doesn't know my name ... now that's entertainment! I love you all with lots of kisses and hugs ... Richard (the center of the vlog universe) On Dec 26, 2007 3:10 AM, Rupert Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED]rupert%40fatgirlinohio.org wrote: You're funny. Happy Christmas, everybody. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled. As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
You're funny. Happy Christmas, everybody. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled. As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. You don't hear people complaining about Da Vinci taking money to paint the last supper. JC was the original product placement. Does anyone remember who paid him to paint it? Goodnight you shitty, worthless community of losers. I'll never leave you. On Dec 24, 2007 12:22 AM, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, I find there's a nugget of truth in the cliche that you get from a community what you put into it, both in quality and kind. A cooperative spirit and an open mind will generaly yield a more positive experience than an attitude of Help me! Help me! Validate me! Love me! FUCK YOU! Or so I hear. ;) Chris Yahoo! Groups Links -- Adam Quirk Wreck Salvage 551.208.4644 Brooklyn, NY http://wreckandsalvage.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
On Dec 24, 2007 10:41 PM, Andrew Baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 24, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Sull wrote: i'm glad you received appreciation and offers based on that post... but i can assure you...or maybe at least bet... that if it were I or many others that tossed that blog post up no such offers, publicity or appreciation would result. This is probably what I disagree with more than just about anything in this whole thread. You know what most of the stuff people on Techmeme and Twitter are talking about? Something that one person out of nowhere had some insight on and thus caused everyone into a fury. If you really believe in something, dont just assume no one will listen to you and be quiet. That comment was a setup to my real question to you... the one you decided not to answer. Still, in response to: It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I'm simply contrasting the weight your post has been given elsewhere with what you expected here on this list (and within a timeframe that you deem acceptable) and my opinion that these stated forms of attention that your post received is not the norm. Sure, people will read and listen to anyone who has something to say. I am not suggesting the extreme slant that you have insinutated... where i am to believe that it's not worth expressing ones opinions and insights... please. I just think that when you compare an offer to be on a discussion panel to a lack of response here... is just exaggerative babble. I feel like this with the group while trying to discuss the writers strike. The implications of the strike are so perfectly tied into the subject matter that so many people here discuss, its just *weird* its not on any ones radar. To here you and Jay say you are sleeping through this one makes me feel like you have been bitten by vampires and have turned into zombies. :D I did not say or suggest that i was going to sleep through this topic. I did say that your post did not excite me to reply here or on your blog. Mostly because i feel you are jumping the gun in some aspects and also because I would like to take some time to think about the topic.. do some of my own research (including comparisons to historical events) and just get a better grip on what I feel is happening here and how things may pan out. Is that ok? Early predictions mean little to me. If I need to witness this event for another month (since it is on my radar ;)... before jumping in with any grand insights here or elsewhere so be it. Sure, this IS an interesting time for the TV Entertainment industry. Some of what you say may end up being accurate. Or not. My initial reaction was that you are over-analyzing and over_emphasizing how fucked the Studios are. So I'll think about it some more, as I already said in my last post here (meaning I will likely reply later and not be a Zombie to the issue). The real point i was making is... your blog post and request for thoughts here... and the state of this mailing list should not be correlated. I dont think thats fair, especially in the last week of the year. Cheers. Sull [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Thank you, Jason, for contributing something that was well-timed, direct in its intention and in context. And my tongue is not in my cheek when I say that. Videoblogging is fantastic and presents awe-inspiring opportunities, but it is by no means a road to Damascus, a Utopia or a space free of the imperfections of humanity. However considering that this is a space in which artistic, more commercially-aimed people and all the shades in between have found themselves together as this medium emerged; I find it amazing that we can talk to each other at all instead of segregating ourselves from each other. Add our different personalties and differing take-aways from communications like Cheryl's video and the lack of restriction on the internet, mix and pour, and I find it it a freaking miracle that we all have been able to talk to each other for this long. We may not always like the tenor of the communications here, but the one thing that remains consistent is that it definitely more authentic than your average office, film or television set, or most other settings. Authentic is not the same is nice and what some people think being supportive means. If I wanted cheerleaders and yes-people, I'd create a community of fans like many webstars have. I've observed enough of them to write a set of Best Practices on the subject, but I find that doesn't serve me or hold me accountable to being a better videoblogger and person in general, and I suspect many others have as well. I ignore the nastiness, but look into the criticisms for a call for people to be the best they can be. I'd take that over fanboydom any day. Some people don't like that, and that's OK. Yet I think we should all be responsible for the expectations we created, and not place the blame on each other when those expectations are not fulfilled. On 24/12/2007, Irina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i love adam AND jay. oh and prettyfeet. On Dec 23, 2007 10:30 PM, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED]quirk%40wreckandsalvage.com wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled. As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. You don't hear people complaining about Da Vinci taking money to paint the last supper. JC was the original product placement. Does anyone remember who paid him to paint it? Goodnight you shitty, worthless community of losers. I'll never leave you. On Dec 24, 2007 12:22 AM, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]cjburdick%40sbcglobal.net cjburdick%40sbcglobal.net wrote: Also, I find there's a nugget of truth in the cliche that you get from a community what you put into it, both in quality and kind. A cooperative spirit and an open mind will generaly yield a more positive experience than an attitude of Help me! Help me! Validate me! Love me! FUCK YOU! Or so I hear. ;) Chris Yahoo! Groups Links -- Adam Quirk Wreck Salvage 551.208.4644 Brooklyn, NY http://wreckandsalvage.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- http://geekentertainment.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- Jeffrey Taylor Mobile: +33625497654 Fax: +33177722734 Skype: thejeffreytaylor Googlechat/Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://twitter.com/jeffreytaylor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Jesus. This is getting so very, very ridiculous and out of hand. What are you? On dope? How many of us came out and said 'stop it' when this latest blog post came out beating up on Zadi's show? ? Are you freaking kidding me? Very few! You know why? Because very few people saw it as Steve Zadi getting beat up. Cheryl was very clear in her intention to start a conversation regarding transparancy, asked for something to be clarified and GOT IT. Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong with a passionate conversation? In fact, Steve and Zadi themselves were the ones with the MOST mature reaction in the end. Others got all playground defensive (hey, man, leave my friends alone!), some got off track entirely, some got it and some didn't. I assume that you didn't watch Heath's response video, or Steve Zadi's response video, or Eric Rey's response video OR read all 73 (and counting) comments because if you did, you'd have a clue. Where are the ones who stood up for her today? Ummm...she stood up for herself, thanks for asking, and with class and grace (Steve exhibited grace, too. He's very graceful for a Dude). Leave if you want, that's fine. Hell, I've left before. This place can get a person edgy, no doubt. But at it's core it remains a very helpful and supportive place. I believe the fact that less gets posted here than in the past is 100% because of the immediacy of Twitter, not because there's no help or friendship or support to be had here. It not that there's no growth, it's that there's growth in the same community elsewhere. This is just a freakin' bulletin board, for crying out loud! It's no Twitter or Seesmic! I think this community IS fun. This community is more than just this list, Robert. Duh! This community is comprised of PEOPLE. Real live people, who want to know and think and grow and do and ask help and and learn. That's what everyone here is doing. Merry Christmas. Pass the dope. Bekah --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no one is here to hate you Robert. its the holidays. (but you have to admit that you just walked into a room of people and said, you guys suck) Well, if the shoe fits. I've seen this community beat up on commercial interests in the past. Including the company I work for and hardly anyone stood up and said stop (and that is far from the only one beaten up here - heck, when the community starts beating up on Zadi I know it's just done for). Schlomo is one I'll always remember sticking up for me and he has my undying respect because of that. How many of you said stop it when this latest blog post came out beating up on Zadi's show? I can look at all the comments to see how many of the 2,000 who are hanging out here. Not many. About the same number who stood up when the target was me or PodTech. Despite PodTech investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in this community. Tonight it's not about PodTech, but Zadi has invested tons of hours in this community and has evangelized it on many a stage that I've witnessed. So, where are the ones who stood up for her today? Not many. A community becomes how it treats its leaders. This one isn't well. what potential should we have? I don't know anymore. I find that I'm doing less and less videoblogging and more and more video streaming. http://www.qik.com http://www.qik.com/ and http://www.mogulus.com http://www.mogulus.com/ is totally changing how I think video on the Internet will be done. This community used to be fun. But the fun is happening over on Seesmic where they taunt newcomers to dance. Not sure how a community changes its stripes once it's given up that high ground. Sorry for being a killjoy on this weekend before Christmas, but this community needs to do better if it wants to grow. Me? I'll be over dancing on Seesmic and hanging out on Twitter. Robert Scoble [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Oh its the naked conversations man, who has proven time and time again that he cant handle naked conversations. Leadership being beaten upon? What leadership? I thought this place worked quite well because the only leaders are those leading any particular conversation at one moment in time. And people who could be considered 'leaders' due to their quality work and pioneering successes, Im sure they get respect, they just dont get immunity from the tough questions. Its true that this group is not as necessary as it once was. Im sure if things evolve to a point where it is totally obsolete, many will be happy because that means 'mission accomplished'.And lets not get too carried away with just how important this group is supposed to be, I mean whose fault is it if you set your expectations too high? Whereever you go, its sill the same old human beings, with all their brilliance and terrible flaws, so you'll see the same patterns time and time again. Woo its Christmas. Wonder where Jesus would have stood on these issues. Probably depends whether it was the actual Jesus (if there was one) or the neutered memory of Jesus, used to bolster organised religion rather than undermine it with simple truths. Parp Parp Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i don't get where this is coming from. I'm outta here. You discuss amongst yourselves. If you think it's perfect, and I'm wrong, that's cool. It's interesting that I've gotten several emails in the past few minutes agreeing with me, though (funny too that they asked not to be dragged into this here). It doesn't matter, really. Thanks to new technology like http://www.kyte.tv http://www.kyte.tv/ , http://www.seesmic.com http://www.seesmic.com/ , http://www.qik.com http://www.qik.com/ and quite a few others that are coming we don't need the tech help we once did with formats and encoding and all that. Twitter has proven to be a better place to find a friendly community and Om Malik's http://newteevee.com/ website brings a much better source of news on our industry than this group once did. I've seen the death of communities before and this one sure seems to be in decline. Message traffic is down. Helpfulness is down. And evidence of beating up on leadership is up. Good luck with that. See ya over on Twitter. Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i don't get where this is coming from. I'm outta here. You discuss amongst yourselves. If you think it's perfect, and I'm wrong, that's cool. The consistent thing I notice about Scoble is that he is a surface guy. It's like he sort of skims the words and misses about half what is said, the missing half often being the actual point being made. Ryanne never said she thinks the yahoo group is perfect or that the videoblogging group is perfect. I would have fallen out of my chair if she had. He thinks I beat up on Zadi, which I stated over and over again was not my intention, but he managed to miss that. He seems to think the whole conversation on my site is about EpicFU and it isn't. For whatever reason, he can't or won't see past the surface. My post - not in the video, but the text - says that I'm aware I could have said things better, but that I put the video up anyway because if I waited to make it perfect it wouldn't get done, but all that gets ignored when people are upset. I personally find the videoblogging community more vibrant than ever. People are getting together online and in person to talk about the stuff we care about. Show in a Box is a great example of the helpfulness that is still out there. So is the Blip.tv user group. If Scoble had to be aware of things for them to be true, how much of the world would blink out of existence? Probably a lot. Cheryl
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
The flurry of videoblogging messages must, I assumed, mean an argument brewing over here. And I was right. Now I don't know much about the original spark. I've become a lurker more than a full-fledged participant. But I did notice Mr. Scoble saying a community becomes how it treats its leaders. And I want to suggest several things to him and everyone here: A community is healthy and mature in direct proportion to how well it tolerates dissent. The worst communities require conformity. The best allow and even encourage different points of view and heated debate. Healthy and mature communities are hard on their leaders. Leadership comes with privileges and rewards that tend to return ever more privilege and reward to the leadership, so among the checks and balances on their authority, a healthy skepticism and disrespect for leaders is natural and helpful. (And who held elections on this board anyway?) Finally, the holiday season is often fraught with pressure and tension. The days are short. Money can be tight. Friends and family are filled with expectations that may be difficult to meet. It's a great time of year to declare a moratorium on strenuous arguing. The good news: the solstice is behind us. The days are getting longer. Eat. Drink. Commune with friends. Be merry. -David --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble robertscoble@ wrote: i don't get where this is coming from. I'm outta here. You discuss amongst yourselves. If you think it's perfect, and I'm wrong, that's cool. The consistent thing I notice about Scoble is that he is a surface guy. It's like he sort of skims the words and misses about half what is said, the missing half often being the actual point being made. Ryanne never said she thinks the yahoo group is perfect or that the videoblogging group is perfect. I would have fallen out of my chair if she had. He thinks I beat up on Zadi, which I stated over and over again was not my intention, but he managed to miss that. He seems to think the whole conversation on my site is about EpicFU and it isn't. For whatever reason, he can't or won't see past the surface. My post - not in the video, but the text - says that I'm aware I could have said things better, but that I put the video up anyway because if I waited to make it perfect it wouldn't get done, but all that gets ignored when people are upset. I personally find the videoblogging community more vibrant than ever. People are getting together online and in person to talk about the stuff we care about. Show in a Box is a great example of the helpfulness that is still out there. So is the Blip.tv user group. If Scoble had to be aware of things for them to be true, how much of the world would blink out of existence? Probably a lot. Cheryl
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Well, this list doesn't do it for me much anymore either. I dont really get that much support from the list. This is not to say that this is not a supportive community or that its gone bad, its just that I personally dont get that much from it anymore. People are not as moved as they seemed to once be and people are not talking about the next thing. Thats okay, we can keep talking about the last thing but I liked the next-thing part of the list from before. Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. Im also not going to just say that this sucks and not throw out a solution. For some this wont be a solution because there is no problem, but for those that also feel the lack of any vibrance now, perhaps people could do more to post about relevant breaking news. Thats really what was so exciting about the list on top of all of the other values a couple of years ago. A breaking news story often leads to a great discussion where people pull their ideas together over new and fresh ideas. I call it breaking news but it was often filled with little discoveries from people in the group out there doing. It was about finding a way to bootstrap two new things together, a way to take something a step further that had not been articulated before, an interesting comment on the impact of a message in content - laying out new methods and talking about them. This is exactly what keeps me going, personally, an now, when I get excited and want to engage in a discussion about contemporary or future issues, I look to other places where people seem much more impassioned about the space. On Dec 23, 2007 11:49 PM, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you guys suck just kidding! there have been a few bad apples in here, and drawn out terrible back-and-forths that made me stop reading this group. that said, the community is still here (or, there, or various places if we look). cheryl colan's thread is proof that the videoblogging community exists, and is sensitive and strong and passionate. however i prefer to keep up with that community on Twitter for the most part. all my very best of the season to you, each and every one. -chuck plug! working on the final ((?)) Vlog Santa going up soon: http://vlogsanta.tv
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Andrew, I saw your post yesterday and read the dembot blog post as a result. I never responded, however, because I'm not sure what I foresee the future of networks being so I didn't have a meaningful reply. Maybe it was the same for others here. Regarding the dying of the list ... rage rage against the dying of the list. Maybe a little shine has come off the topic because it's so much more fun to talk about and foment the revolution, which it felt like we were doing a couple of years ago, then to give status reports as it feels we're doing a lot of today. But I would suggest that the low activity of the list is not necessarily a permanent thing, but a cyclic event. The revolution is far from over. Democratization of media is ongoing. There are many interested parties and a community. It may contract some more before it expands again. Or maybe it will contract in numbers before it picks up in activity again. I still check in from time to time and haven't done any videoblogging for awhile now. -David --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, this list doesn't do it for me much anymore either. I dont really get that much support from the list. This is not to say that this is not a supportive community or that its gone bad, its just that I personally dont get that much from it anymore. People are not as moved as they seemed to once be and people are not talking about the next thing. Thats okay, we can keep talking about the last thing but I liked the next-thing part of the list from before. Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. Im also not going to just say that this sucks and not throw out a solution. For some this wont be a solution because there is no problem, but for those that also feel the lack of any vibrance now, perhaps people could do more to post about relevant breaking news. Thats really what was so exciting about the list on top of all of the other values a couple of years ago. A breaking news story often leads to a great discussion where people pull their ideas together over new and fresh ideas. I call it breaking news but it was often filled with little discoveries from people in the group out there doing. It was about finding a way to bootstrap two new things together, a way to take something a step further that had not been articulated before, an interesting comment on the impact of a message in content - laying out new methods and talking about them. This is exactly what keeps me going, personally, an now, when I get excited and want to engage in a discussion about contemporary or future issues, I look to other places where people seem much more impassioned about the space. On Dec 23, 2007 11:49 PM, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you guys suck just kidding! there have been a few bad apples in here, and drawn out terrible back-and-forths that made me stop reading this group. that said, the community is still here (or, there, or various places if we look). cheryl colan's thread is proof that the videoblogging community exists, and is sensitive and strong and passionate. however i prefer to keep up with that community on Twitter for the most part. all my very best of the season to you, each and every one. -chuck plug! working on the final ((?)) Vlog Santa going up soon: http://vlogsanta.tv
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. This is the blog post that Andrew posted: http://dembot.com/post/22117963 There are classic insights like, While the rest of the world is blooming online, TV has no new content to offer right now. I read it, and was like duh. we've been discussing why TV sucks since the beginning. its a forgone conclusion. in 2004 people used to say we were cranks for these opinions. It was awesome that you wrote a concise essay about why TV studios will die, but did you think this was breaking news to anyone here? I'm so fucking glad that TV writers are realizing that the cages are wide open now! Id rather talk about how Rocketboom's format is the most widely copied format for online video shows these days. that's influence. I get confused how folks diss this specific small email list...and touts the numbers and importance of Techmeme, Techcrunch, Newteevee or other websites. they certainly are cool...but are any of these communities in the comments more gracious or insightful? So please dont make people feel shitty because they dont happen to love your one post every 10 months. As on any list, the people who regularly participate in a community usually get the most response. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. yep...its all good Andrew. as much as we used to fight in the beginning, I love how stubborn and protective you've been of your own video work. you are doing your thing hard and its great(http://rocketboom.com). Hiring Kenyatta brought a new spirit to the show. As Kent said, it's really about what we each do and make in our videoblogs that mean anything. this is what lasts. I see nothing but people doing on this list: http://videoblogginggroup.pbwiki.com/Who%20we%20are Check out all the links: please add yourself if you want. We're really such a small, intimate group. I always wanted to see videoblogging as valid communication model to express and archive ourselves. 50 years from now is when time will tell. I'm a bloggers in it for the long haul. Im not trying to be the most popular on the latest service worried about how many friends I have. When I have a philosophical question about morality AND a question on compliance with the latest HTML5 documentI come here. This group is completely chaotic and uncommercial. we never wanted to be the place to discuss the latest business trend. we have no motive but to help new people start and understand how to videoblog...and how to share our experience to push ourselves to doing better work. We try to critique each other in a way different from youtube where critique is suck my dick you bitch ill shit down your throat asshole you homo you suck my dick too (please). I'm always interested in communities and would love links to other places where people are supporting each other around online video. newteevee comments? techcrunch? youtube? NIng group? seriously, give me a link to check out. I hope and want to see more places where people can really be themselves and not fight to be loved and respected. You come here and its done. We want to see you videoblog as long as you're willing to be honest with yourself. I see much of the conversations among the old videoblogging heads now on twitter and chat. This Yahoo mailing list has threatened to end so many times that I'm actually surprised it's still here with the blowups that happen every six months. As we said in the old days: if you think we're dumb, go start your own list! Its like the American dollar, we all just got to stop using it. The world wont end. we'll just need to find another way to do the same thing. Ill still be here in 50 years. We can show each other videos of our grandkids mooning us from the actual moon. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Nice post, I pretty much totally agree with you there. I think Ive moaned about this in the past year or so, I miss a large number of people and their opinions. I suppose it was easier to talk about things when it was fresher. There is probably as much new stuff happening, in terms of issues, shows, services, technology, etc, and with each day video is used more and more by humans, but the big bang is over. Progress marches on, but Hunter S Thompson's profound comments about a high water mark you can see with the right sort of eyes, holds as true for vlogging as it did the 60's revolution. Anyways I miss the days when I wouldnt stick out so much as a frequent opinionater. My opinions bore me (perhaps nearly as much as they bore everyone else lol) and I do miss more of that stuff, its not like there are enough comments on sites like newteevee to replace what used to happen here. But having said that, there were probably people getting disattisfied with this group from almost the moment it began. Some peeps were always pining for more discussion of content and creativity, rather than technology. Now there is probably more legal, ethical, business advertising talk than there is tech talk, but no greater discussion of creative technique etc etc. The group sticking with the same means of communicating, also dooms it to a certain extent, or at least reduces its scope. Its reasonable for it to be conservative to ensure the lowest technical barriers to entry, but taking the best of twitter, live video, video conferencing, social networking and virtual reality to create a different sort of presense for the group, would be an interesting thing to see. I dont anticipate this happening here though, so maybe sometime a slightly or totally different network of humans will make it so. Ah well, despite the years of hype, human networking via computer networks still has a long way to go. Collaboration not as easy as it should be, but is this a failure of tools or a failure of will? Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, this list doesn't do it for me much anymore either. I dont really get that much support from the list. This is not to say that this is not a supportive community or that its gone bad, its just that I personally dont get that much from it anymore. People are not as moved as they seemed to once be and people are not talking about the next thing. Thats okay, we can keep talking about the last thing but I liked the next-thing part of the list from before. Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. Im also not going to just say that this sucks and not throw out a solution. For some this wont be a solution because there is no problem, but for those that also feel the lack of any vibrance now, perhaps people could do more to post about relevant breaking news. Thats really what was so exciting about the list on top of all of the other values a couple of years ago. A breaking news story often leads to a great discussion where people pull their ideas together over new and fresh ideas. I call it breaking news but it was often filled with little discoveries from people in the group out there doing. It was about finding a way to bootstrap two new things together, a way to take something a step further that had not been articulated before, an interesting comment on the impact of a message in content - laying out new methods and talking about them. This is exactly what keeps me going, personally, an now, when I get excited and want to engage in a discussion about contemporary or future issues, I look to other places where people seem much more impassioned about the space. On Dec 23, 2007 11:49 PM, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you guys suck just kidding! there have been a few bad apples in here, and drawn out terrible back-and-forths that made me stop reading this group. that said, the community is still here (or, there, or various places if we look). cheryl colan's thread is proof that the videoblogging community exists, and is sensitive and strong and passionate. however i
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
end of the year such clockwork. it might help to do what i do. that is to look at this Yahoo Mailing List Group as merely one channel among many. i don't consider this yahoo group a community. and we can debate what a community is as well. there was a time when videoblogging community meant the active people who were doing the talking, evangelizing and creation of content and technology. the community consisted of the loudest and most inspired who also felt it important to connect to other like-minded people. in 2004/2005, this was a relatively small group of people on cusp of the next digital video revolution... the one where the online part actually started to work and make sense. this mailing list served a purpose then and has served a purpose ever since that purpose often shifting according to the times and trends and needs of the subscribers. but it is still just a channel to tap into. channels of communication. we now have more social communication tools/services then ever before. and many of us use them. we use them as a topical network connecting our interests and interesting people that we want to interact with. it connects our content with our profiles, blogs and personal sites and projects. it distributes audiences, friends, family. it all interweaves both chaotically and logically. we are all learning how to use these tools and how to choose which tools work for us and which do not. we experiment. we weed. we promote and we call out suspicious projects. their is as much a community around videoblogging as their is a lack of one. a plethora of personal and corporate sites and social services for every one to love and hate and participate with. i repeat, this is just a channel. this the be-all. you could look at this group as a sort of hub... maybe a metaphorical water cooler or a grand central station that we all pass through on our way to other online destinations. but it's not The Videoblogging Community. for those that believe it is or believe that is has tried to be that you are wrong and your expectations are therefor warped. to Andrew Baron... i'm glad you didnt decide to announce a departure from reading and writing here. i know your last post was your way of agreeing and disagreeing wth any kind of harsh judgement on this mailing list. hell, i barely participate here these days but its a channel of information and people that i respect and since i know how to filter info-overload... i stay subscribed. but Andrew, i read your blog post and it didnt excite me. but i will read it again and think about it some more. i'm glad you received appreciation and offers based on that post... but i can assure you...or maybe at least bet... that if it were I or many others that tossed that blog post up no such offers, publicity or appreciation would result. i dont think the comparison of response from people on this list verses the response you received elsewhere is fair or justified it means nothing. you can easily post something entirely different and very interesting 3 months from now and get a wild response. how then would you judge the people who use this yahoo channel? to Scoble i've tried to respect you more than i do by consuming your content, both professional and personal. and my personal opinion is that you contain or emit too much artificiality and contradiction mixed with your opportunistic qualities... or at least your online persona shows me this. i dont know you personally and dont dare judge you as a person any further that what i just said. you probably have many great qualities that i may never know of. i simply am interpreting you via your digital output here and elsewhere and your predictable to me. so as you depart from this channel because you get nothing out of it that makes you feel warm and fuzzy... i'll be unsubscribing from you for the same reasons. merry x-mas to all and to all a good drink! sull
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Adam, I wanna rape puppies with you. 3 And this is why I lurk. ER --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled. As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. You don't hear people complaining about Da Vinci taking money to paint the last supper. JC was the original product placement. Does anyone remember who paid him to paint it? Goodnight you shitty, worthless community of losers. I'll never leave you. On Dec 24, 2007 12:22 AM, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, I find there's a nugget of truth in the cliche that you get from a community what you put into it, both in quality and kind. A cooperative spirit and an open mind will generaly yield a more positive experience than an attitude of Help me! Help me! Validate me! Love me! FUCK YOU! Or so I hear. ;) Chris Yahoo! Groups Links -- Adam Quirk Wreck Salvage 551.208.4644 Brooklyn, NY http://wreckandsalvage.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I kind of have to chuckle at how jaded so many people in this thread seem to be, talking about videoblogging as if it's a bum-legged horse that you can't bring yourself to take round the back of the barn and shoot in the head. To people like me - and, I think, the world at large - serial videoblogging is still a shiny new thing with a lot of untapped potential. I can see why it might be old hat to people who've already been immersed in it for a couple of years... ... wait a minute, no I don't. The medium's only a few years old, and people are moaning and groaning and rolling their eyes. Maybe I come from a generation with a slightly longer attention span, but I just don't get it. Vlogging is sooo last Tuesday! So is streaming! The latest thing is a high-intensity laser that shoots right out of your monitor and etches the video directly on the back of your retina! EVERYTHING worth watching is going in that direction, you'll see... If someone is bored with the medium, I can only imagine they're not using it to its best potential. Art isn't about aspect ratios and codecs and kilobytes per second... it's about what you DO with all that crap. The medium is not the message. The right artist can create a masterpiece with a handful of crayons and a roll of toilet paper... but that doesn't give the crayons and toilet paper any intrinsic artistic value. In summation: oy. Just oy. Chris --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice post, I pretty much totally agree with you there. I think Ive moaned about this in the past year or so, I miss a large number of people and their opinions. I suppose it was easier to talk about things when it was fresher. There is probably as much new stuff happening, in terms of issues, shows, services, technology, etc, and with each day video is used more and more by humans, but the big bang is over. Progress marches on, but Hunter S Thompson's profound comments about a high water mark you can see with the right sort of eyes, holds as true for vlogging as it did the 60's revolution. Anyways I miss the days when I wouldnt stick out so much as a frequent opinionater. My opinions bore me (perhaps nearly as much as they bore everyone else lol) and I do miss more of that stuff, its not like there are enough comments on sites like newteevee to replace what used to happen here. But having said that, there were probably people getting disattisfied with this group from almost the moment it began. Some peeps were always pining for more discussion of content and creativity, rather than technology. Now there is probably more legal, ethical, business advertising talk than there is tech talk, but no greater discussion of creative technique etc etc. The group sticking with the same means of communicating, also dooms it to a certain extent, or at least reduces its scope. Its reasonable for it to be conservative to ensure the lowest technical barriers to entry, but taking the best of twitter, live video, video conferencing, social networking and virtual reality to create a different sort of presense for the group, would be an interesting thing to see. I dont anticipate this happening here though, so maybe sometime a slightly or totally different network of humans will make it so. Ah well, despite the years of hype, human networking via computer networks still has a long way to go. Collaboration not as easy as it should be, but is this a failure of tools or a failure of will? Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron andrew@ wrote: Well, this list doesn't do it for me much anymore either. I dont really get that much support from the list. This is not to say that this is not a supportive community or that its gone bad, its just that I personally dont get that much from it anymore. People are not as moved as they seemed to once be and people are not talking about the next thing. Thats okay, we can keep talking about the last thing but I liked the next-thing part of the list from before. Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. Im also not going to just say that this
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble I quit Microsoft because of this community (seriously, this community played a big role in my decision) and it just hasn't lived up to its potential. This is determined by whom...? ER
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
What's the best technical example I can use here... hmm.. oh yeah, the one that TRAFFIC != indicator of value or quality. Hell, even in the web space where 'time spent on site' is replacing the click counting. I'm willing to think the Road Node and Node 101s don't get the numbers, numbers, numbers that are 'acceptable', but they've put more rubber to the road in Apple stores and classrooms around the world/across the country. That's not on Twitter. I've seen Jay and Ryanne teaching video in fucking Thailand. Thailand! That ain't no Twitter. I've seen people organize boatloads of conferences, inviting other provinces in media-- Pixelodeon, Vloggercon, etc. Trucking butts to hell and back and never getting the link love on Twitter or being high up in the Alexa ranking. So yeah I think the tech term is something like 'quality' versus 'quantity'. ER --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i don't get where this is coming from. I'm outta here. You discuss amongst yourselves. If you think it's perfect, and I'm wrong, that's cool. It's interesting that I've gotten several emails in the past few minutes agreeing with me, though (funny too that they asked not to be dragged into this here). It doesn't matter, really. Thanks to new technology like http://www.kyte.tv http://www.kyte.tv/ , http://www.seesmic.com http://www.seesmic.com/ , http://www.qik.com http://www.qik.com/ and quite a few others that are coming we don't need the tech help we once did with formats and encoding and all that. Twitter has proven to be a better place to find a friendly community and Om Malik's http://newteevee.com/ website brings a much better source of news on our industry than this group once did. I've seen the death of communities before and this one sure seems to be in decline. Message traffic is down. Helpfulness is down. And evidence of beating up on leadership is up. Good luck with that. See ya over on Twitter. Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, missbhavens1969 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus. This is getting so very, very ridiculous and out of hand. What are you? On dope? There's fighting between siblings, and there's fighting between enemies. The casual observer can be mistaken. But I believe the participants in this current hot thread will not have any hard feelings when it's over. Isn't that what makes this a strong community? What more could we ask for? It certainly seems better than asking to remain the Next Hot Thing, like the examples that Scoble mentioned, with 10 X more people, more buzz and hype, but a short shelf life and shallower relationships.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I'm not talking making people ashamed for having conversations, I'm talking about how their heads are stuck on sticks and paraded around town. It's very Lord Of The Flies, and nobody deserves to be treated as Piggy. But maybe in your world they do. Your actions are showing that that is how you like things to work. On Dec 24, 2007 11:47 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I dont like is for blogging elders like Scoble, Calcanis, or even you coming and making people ashamed for having conversations or arguments online. Even if when conversations may stumble and miss, it's still good they exist. -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I'm not talking making people ashamed for having conversations, I'm talking about how their heads are stuck on sticks and paraded around town. It's very Lord Of The Flies, and nobody deserves to be treated as Piggy. But maybe in your world they do. Your actions are showing that that is how you like things to work. maybe this will be thread for who gets the last word. I have been listing lots of posts where people contribute info to the group: http://videoblogginggroup.pbwiki.com/Great-Quotes-from-the-Group everyone here is welcome to do what they like there. But Scoble has made clear how bad this group is. So let's remember it. Sorry you feel we're entering immoral territory; edit the group's wiki if you feel strongly about it. I didnt know how offended you were Schlomo. jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I think it's in the presentation, guys. This group irritates me on far more occasions than not, so I just keep my mouth shut and lurk and only chime in if I feel I have something to contribute. Reading only the stuff that makes me happy does not make me, as an individual, any smarter. And within something one does not like, there are valuable insights. I just never felt the need to roll out the horses, carpets, trumpets and such to PROCLAIM that I. AM. SPARRRT,er uh shit, LEAAVVVINNNGGG. This is a blogger problem tho, and I suffer from it too. We can't STFU long enough to sit back, lurk and lisssten. (or uh, watch) ER ps. Jay don't put me on no wiki maaan ;) --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not talking making people ashamed for having conversations, I'm talking about how their heads are stuck on sticks and paraded around town. It's very Lord Of The Flies, and nobody deserves to be treated as Piggy. But maybe in your world they do. Your actions are showing that that is how you like things to work. maybe this will be thread for who gets the last word. I have been listing lots of posts where people contribute info to the group: http://videoblogginggroup.pbwiki.com/Great-Quotes-from-the-Group everyone here is welcome to do what they like there. But Scoble has made clear how bad this group is. So let's remember it. Sorry you feel we're entering immoral territory; edit the group's wiki if you feel strongly about it. I didnt know how offended you were Schlomo. jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
You are right, it is a wiki and as a member here I guess I should just cut it out. When I think about the future and what I am proud of that I have done in this field and on this list, having a list like that is not something I think is needed. And yes, I did find it very offensive, manly because it only goes after the biggies/old guard/whatever they may be, and not everyone. If the list was going to have everyone appropriate, it would probably have anyone who has written more than 20 emails to this list. On Dec 24, 2007 12:03 PM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Scoble has made clear how bad this group is. So let's remember it. Sorry you feel we're entering immoral territory; edit the group's wiki if you feel strongly about it. I didnt know how offended you were Schlomo. -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I cannot figure out how, in a group that sometimes seems so EXTREMELY focused on the purely commercal side of videoblogging lately, some people feel the group is ANTI such things and operates as a lynch mob along those lines. I still see plenty of all kinds of discussion here. I also think a little clear vision about the things we all DON'T share as values/goals/ethics may be useful. I mean holy smokes, if a community that lays some claim to, directly or indirectly, 29 Fragile Days, Twittervlog, Taylor Street Studios, Scratch Video, Alive in Baghdad, French Maid TV, Gerry T and Mahalo Daily can really say it's ALL about the shared vision, we're in serious, serious denial. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Should have added to that: and if we can't argue with each other about the resulting issues, and criticize each other, why have the group at all? Easy enough to form happy little support listservs to focus on the various niches and genres. This group is about, or at least I thought it was, a broader, and yes, more conflicted sphere, and that is, at least in theory, it's strength. What Scoble, for one, seems to want this group to be is something it never was intended to be, at least from what I can surmise. ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
You hit the nail on the head: Instead of putting those sorts of hate/spite posts on the group wiki, PLEASE feel free to use Evilvlog! EVERYONE is always welcome to post on Evilvlog. Admin and Password: anon Or email me offlist and we'll get you your own account, so you can use your own name. On Dec 24, 2007 12:15 PM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this isnt Evilvlog for fuck's sake: http://evilvlog.com/ Jay -- Schlomo Rabinowitz http://schlomolog.blogspot.com http://hatfactory.net AIM:schlomochat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Blabbermouth! --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, schlomo rabinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You hit the nail on the head: Instead of putting those sorts of hate/spite posts on the group wiki, PLEASE feel free to use Evilvlog! EVERYONE is always welcome to post on Evilvlog.
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays everyone! Thank you.
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the blog post that Andrew posted: http://dembot.com/post/22117963 There are classic insights like, While the rest of the world is blooming online, TV has no new content to offer right now. I read it, and was like duh. we've been discussing why TV sucks since the beginning. its a forgone conclusion. Jay, apparently you have *completely* misread the post. When I said TV has no new content to offer, I didn't mean that metaphorically. I meant literally. The writers strike is an amazing turn of events, one that may have a much bigger impact on changing the traditional media landscape than anyone here has ever been able to articulate in times past (except maybe Adam Quirk early on Sunday mornings). Most of the shows on TV have not been completed for the next season and reruns are starting to happen across the set. This is such a major moment, its a crying shame people here dont see this. This is one of the biggest moments for a change in media that have seen yet. in 2004 people used to say we were cranks for these opinions. It was awesome that you wrote a concise essay about why TV studios will die, but did you think this was breaking news to anyone here? This is not old news, this is happening right now and each new day the industry is becoming more and more impacted. Many thought the strike would be over by now and some are predicting it will go on for months. I really recommend you have a look into this topic and consider applying what you know to the cause. I'm so fucking glad that TV writers are realizing that the cages are wide open now! Now that you know, why dont you say something about it. Speak out loud and let them know what they can do. If anyone has taken the role of teacher, you and Ryanne seem determined to spread technical information and encouragement, why dont you channel some of that energy towards Hollywood? Because now there is a window of opportunity that is oh so small and the consequences of poking it with a tiny little stick can be catastrophic due to the fragility of the entire market. In otherwords, if you are happy to teach anyone that is interested, know that pretty much ALL of the writers that make the content go 'round in Hollywood are interested right now. Id rather talk about how Rocketboom's format is the most widely copied format for online video shows these days. that's influence. Much appreciated, though I have not found this to be a warm topic of discussion here on this list ;) I get confused how folks diss this specific small email list...and touts the numbers and importance of Techmeme, Techcrunch, Newteevee or other websites. they certainly are cool...but are any of these communities in the comments more gracious or insightful? I think you may be missing the references here too. For instance, I dont think Newteevee is a community, per se, and I dont think others meant that either. But if you want to know whats going on in the space, it used to be that this was the place to discover that news. Not only does Newteevee do a much better, much more comprehensive job of keeping track of issues that happen in the space (includinh non-market news), this list has gone the opposite direction in that department. Else, I personally consider Techmeme important because its a kind of a measure on discussion, actually. The topics have caused thinkers into discussion and its an indicator of how much a topic has cased people to speak out. So to take a stab at your question, yes, they are more gracious (WAY) and are more regularly insightful. So please dont make people feel shitty because they dont happen to love your one post every 10 months. As on any list, the people who regularly participate in a community usually get the most response. I dont think I was making anyone feel shitty for not responding to my post. I was using it as an example because I think its a totally quintessential, extremely perfect example that makes for the excellent case that the discussion is not happening here on anything new. And while I have posted hundreds and hundreds of posts here, not quite as rare as one in every 10 months now, but you are right. This pattern of my posting seems to support the conclusion that this is not as happening for me as it once used to be. I dont wish it any death. I'd like to see it improve which is why Im talking about it on Christmas Eve and trying to send possible solutions, etc. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. yep...its all good Andrew. as much as we used to fight in the beginning, I love how stubborn and protective you've been of your own video
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Cheers David, onward and upward! On Dec 24, 2007, at 11:26 AM, David wrote: Andrew, I saw your post yesterday and read the dembot blog post as a result. I never responded, however, because I'm not sure what I foresee the future of networks being so I didn't have a meaningful reply. Maybe it was the same for others here. Regarding the dying of the list ... rage rage against the dying of the list. Maybe a little shine has come off the topic because it's so much more fun to talk about and foment the revolution, which it felt like we were doing a couple of years ago, then to give status reports as it feels we're doing a lot of today. But I would suggest that the low activity of the list is not necessarily a permanent thing, but a cyclic event. The revolution is far from over. Democratization of media is ongoing. There are many interested parties and a community. It may contract some more before it expands again. Or maybe it will contract in numbers before it picks up in activity again. I still check in from time to time and haven't done any videoblogging for awhile now. -David --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, this list doesn't do it for me much anymore either. I dont really get that much support from the list. This is not to say that this is not a supportive community or that its gone bad, its just that I personally dont get that much from it anymore. People are not as moved as they seemed to once be and people are not talking about the next thing. Thats okay, we can keep talking about the last thing but I liked the next-thing part of the list from before. Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. Im also not going to just say that this sucks and not throw out a solution. For some this wont be a solution because there is no problem, but for those that also feel the lack of any vibrance now, perhaps people could do more to post about relevant breaking news. Thats really what was so exciting about the list on top of all of the other values a couple of years ago. A breaking news story often leads to a great discussion where people pull their ideas together over new and fresh ideas. I call it breaking news but it was often filled with little discoveries from people in the group out there doing. It was about finding a way to bootstrap two new things together, a way to take something a step further that had not been articulated before, an interesting comment on the impact of a message in content - laying out new methods and talking about them. This is exactly what keeps me going, personally, an now, when I get excited and want to engage in a discussion about contemporary or future issues, I look to other places where people seem much more impassioned about the space. On Dec 23, 2007 11:49 PM, Chuck Olsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you guys suck just kidding! there have been a few bad apples in here, and drawn out terrible back-and-forths that made me stop reading this group. that said, the community is still here (or, there, or various places if we look). cheryl colan's thread is proof that the videoblogging community exists, and is sensitive and strong and passionate. however i prefer to keep up with that community on Twitter for the most part. all my very best of the season to you, each and every one. -chuck plug! working on the final ((?)) Vlog Santa going up soon: http://vlogsanta.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
On Dec 24, 2007, at 11:54 AM, Steve Watkins wrote: Collaboration not as easy as it should be, but is this a failure of tools or a failure of will? Ah the metaphsical. If I could just prove that space is finite and time is infinite then I could show by deduction that the problem is in the tools.. . unless of course the question is flawed ;) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Andrew, I did read your post on this the other day. You summed up the state of the studio pretty well. I believe the nail in their coffin will be the new media buyers taking over the status-quo positions. Part of my job is to research new opportunites for new media buys. Once the old regime is out, the studios are going to have to move quickly (pretty much a oxy- moron), and I don't have a lot of faith in post-roll / pre-roll, or even the new google/youtube ad models. I think the statics speak for themselves. Just me two lindens. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just the other day I posted what I would consider a pretty relevant topic about the changing industry, mentioned I had been working on a hypothesis for quite some time and then asked for thoughts but didn't get a single response here. It wound up on Techmeme with links from Mashable, Newteevee, The Hollywood Writers Guild blog and I got contacted by some striking writers and got offered a panel position, but not a single comment on this list, even after asking. I guess its just not interesting or exciting to most people anymore. This is the blog post that Andrew posted: http://dembot.com/post/22117963 There are classic insights like, While the rest of the world is blooming online, TV has no new content to offer right now. I read it, and was like duh. we've been discussing why TV sucks since the beginning. its a forgone conclusion. in 2004 people used to say we were cranks for these opinions. It was awesome that you wrote a concise essay about why TV studios will die, but did you think this was breaking news to anyone here? I'm so fucking glad that TV writers are realizing that the cages are wide open now! Id rather talk about how Rocketboom's format is the most widely copied format for online video shows these days. that's influence. I get confused how folks diss this specific small email list...and touts the numbers and importance of Techmeme, Techcrunch, Newteevee or other websites. they certainly are cool...but are any of these communities in the comments more gracious or insightful? So please dont make people feel shitty because they dont happen to love your one post every 10 months. As on any list, the people who regularly participate in a community usually get the most response. I am still grateful for this list, especially for how much support I have gotten in the past and I think I have given alot as well. Its kinda of like a family which you love unconditionally even when you disagree and get upset, so Ill stick around. yep...its all good Andrew. as much as we used to fight in the beginning, I love how stubborn and protective you've been of your own video work. you are doing your thing hard and its great(http://rocketboom.com). Hiring Kenyatta brought a new spirit to the show. As Kent said, it's really about what we each do and make in our videoblogs that mean anything. this is what lasts. I see nothing but people doing on this list: http://videoblogginggroup.pbwiki.com/Who%20we%20are Check out all the links: please add yourself if you want. We're really such a small, intimate group. I always wanted to see videoblogging as valid communication model to express and archive ourselves. 50 years from now is when time will tell. I'm a bloggers in it for the long haul. Im not trying to be the most popular on the latest service worried about how many friends I have. When I have a philosophical question about morality AND a question on compliance with the latest HTML5 documentI come here. This group is completely chaotic and uncommercial. we never wanted to be the place to discuss the latest business trend. we have no motive but to help new people start and understand how to videoblog...and how to share our experience to push ourselves to doing better work. We try to critique each other in a way different from youtube where critique is suck my dick you bitch ill shit down your throat asshole you homo you suck my dick too (please). I'm always interested in communities and would love links to other places where people are supporting each other around online video. newteevee comments? techcrunch? youtube? NIng group? seriously, give me a link to check out. I hope and want to see more places where people can really be themselves and not fight to be loved and respected. You come here and its done. We want to see you videoblog as long as you're willing to be honest with yourself. I see much of the conversations among the old videoblogging heads now on twitter and chat. This Yahoo mailing list has threatened to end so many times that I'm actually surprised it's still here with the blowups that happen every six months. As we said in the old days: if you think we're dumb, go start your own list! Its like the American dollar, we all just got to stop
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
On Dec 24, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Sull wrote: i'm glad you received appreciation and offers based on that post... but i can assure you...or maybe at least bet... that if it were I or many others that tossed that blog post up no such offers, publicity or appreciation would result. This is probably what I disagree with more than just about anything in this whole thread. You know what most of the stuff people on Techmeme and Twitter are talking about? Something that one person out of nowhere had some insight on and thus caused everyone into a fury. If you really believe in something, dont just assume no one will listen to you and be quiet. i dont think the comparison of response from people on this list verses the response you received elsewhere is fair or justified it means nothing. I disagree here too. It means a huge amount. Remember back in 2004 when you said you worked in online video and people assumed that meant porn? I feel like this with the group while trying to discuss the writers strike. The implications of the strike are so perfectly tied into the subject matter that so many people here discuss, its just *weird* its not on any ones radar. To here you and Jay say you are sleeping through this one makes me feel like you have been bitten by vampires and have turned into zombies. :D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel like this with the group while trying to discuss the writers strike. The implications of the strike are so perfectly tied into the subject matter that so many people here discuss, its just *weird* its not on any ones radar. The writers strike is very much on my radar... my recent casting efforts have definitely benefited from so many actors being out of work. My goofy little free gigs seem significantly less goofy when they're the only game in town. And I bet a lot of other L.A.-based new media producers are experiencing the same good fortune. So I say strike on, my union brethren, strike on! ;) Chris
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
64 comments and counting. http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every 6 months or so, someone starts a conversation about what we're doing with videoblogging. how we make make a living. how we express ourselves. how we remain independent. how we become artists and/or businesspeople. Cheryl started the conversation on her blog. She took time to write her ideas and show examples. http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ Let's keep the conversation over there so its in one place. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
64 comments and counting. http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media yeah..lets continue to keep the conversation over on cheryl's blog. its not about whether Epic Fu is good or bad. its really about what values all of us want to maintain as more of us continue to carve a living making online video...while staying independent. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
RE: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Interesting how the videoblogging community eats its own. It's too bad. Two years ago I thought this was a really great community where we help each other get bigger and better. But I don't hold those opinions anymore. This kind of stuff is EXACTLY why I don't participate here much anymore. Let me know when it changes and I'll be back. Robert Scoble ### _ From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Cammack Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 4:27 PM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing 64 comments and counting. http://www.hummingc http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ row.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ --- In videoblogging@ mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every 6 months or so, someone starts a conversation about what we're doing with videoblogging. how we make make a living. how we express ourselves. how we remain independent. how we become artists and/or businesspeople. Cheryl started the conversation on her blog. She took time to write her ideas and show examples. http://www.hummingc http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ row.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ Let's keep the conversation over there so its in one place. Jay -- http://jaydedman. http://jaydedman.com com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry http://ryanishungry.com .com Twitter: http://twitter. http://twitter.com/jaydedman com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr. http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl. http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 com/yqgdt9 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I don't know... I only fell into this community about a month ago, but I've found folks to be fairly friendly and supportive. But I also understand that bigger and better don't always go hand-in-hand, and the more a community expands, the greater the chance you'll get a few cranks showing up to the party. I think the best thing to do is to focus on the positive communities WITHIN the community at large. Relatively safe havens, like this and similar groups, where I don't imagine a lot of dickishness is tolerated. But that's just my take... Chris --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting how the videoblogging community eats its own. It's too bad. Two years ago I thought this was a really great community where we help each other get bigger and better. But I don't hold those opinions anymore. This kind of stuff is EXACTLY why I don't participate here much anymore. Let me know when it changes and I'll be back. Robert Scoble
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Robert, Generally it's true that this is a really great community that helps each other get better. I'm not sure what you saw in this conversation that made you think otherwise. I mean it's hardly a childish flame war, and I've seen my share of those over and over again in the nearly 20 years I've been having conversations online--and I'm sure you have too. These are for the most part legitimate questions and concerns raised in good faith and discussed openly and honestly. So it's really hard for me to understand what you are talking about here. You surely know that some of the conversations that are hardest to have are the ones that are often the most important. Bill Streeter LO-FI SAINT LOUIS www.lofistl.com www.billstreeter.net --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting how the videoblogging community eats its own. It's too bad. Two years ago I thought this was a really great community where we help each other get bigger and better. But I don't hold those opinions anymore. This kind of stuff is EXACTLY why I don't participate here much anymore. Let me know when it changes and I'll be back. Robert Scoble ### _ From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Cammack Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 4:27 PM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing 64 comments and counting. http://www.hummingc http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ row.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ --- In videoblogging@ mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman jay.dedman@ wrote: Every 6 months or so, someone starts a conversation about what we're doing with videoblogging. how we make make a living. how we express ourselves. how we remain independent. how we become artists and/or businesspeople. Cheryl started the conversation on her blog. She took time to write her ideas and show examples. http://www.hummingc http://www.hummingcrow.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ row.com/2007/12/21/new-media/ Let's keep the conversation over there so its in one place. Jay -- http://jaydedman. http://jaydedman.com com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry http://ryanishungry.com .com Twitter: http://twitter. http://twitter.com/jaydedman com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr. http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl. http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 com/yqgdt9 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
let's not get into a Scoble bashing. robert, you cant expect to jump into a community of 2000 people, piss on us, and then not get hate. do you? Oh, the old don't beat up on the community threat. It's funny. This community has grown very little over the past year. Why is that? Especially when compared to the growth in places like YouTube, Justin.tv, and Seesmic. In two months Seesmic has gone from zero to more than 1,000 videos posted a day but we haven't seen anything close to that kind of growth in the community here. Why is that? I'm used to the hate. Bring it on. But if you do that'll be just proving me right. Instead of attacking maybe the right question is how can we help each other? I quit Microsoft because of this community (seriously, this community played a big role in my decision) and it just hasn't lived up to its potential. Why is that? Robert Scoble [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I quit Microsoft because of this community (seriously, this community played a big role in my decision) and it just hasn't lived up to its potential. Why is that? no one is here to hate you Robert. its the holidays. (but you have to admit that you just walked into a room of people and said, you guys suck) since you're the one who started the thread of what's wrong with this community...why dont you kick it off. what potential should we have? you sound like the father who tries to shame his children with ambiguous language showing disappointment. the family looks down at the ground wondering what they did wrong. (turns out daddy had a bad day at the office) Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
ok ok this is nutty zadi and steve are adults they responded to cheryl's post like adults they got some criticism (as all of us do from time to time when we stick our necks out as zs do and even cheryl in her post) they handled it well. i don't see any comments on that post 'beating up' on anyone. ok ok there were some harsh words between jeffery and calcanis, yeah but i don't see anyone beating up on epic fu. cheryl criticized their show. criticism is inherent in blogging and vlogging, we've all experienced it (ugh, good and bad), we've all grown from it. ( right?) people are passionate about this stuff people want to talk about this stuff and i think that's a good thing. we're all taking chances with putting our work out there trying to make money and it's not always easy to talk about but i think the discussion over there has been pretty civil. On Dec 23, 2007 8:18 PM, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no one is here to hate you Robert. its the holidays. (but you have to admit that you just walked into a room of people and said, you guys suck) Well, if the shoe fits. I've seen this community beat up on commercial interests in the past. Including the company I work for and hardly anyone stood up and said stop (and that is far from the only one beaten up here - heck, when the community starts beating up on Zadi I know it's just done for). Schlomo is one I'll always remember sticking up for me and he has my undying respect because of that. How many of you said stop it when this latest blog post came out beating up on Zadi's show? I can look at all the comments to see how many of the 2,000 who are hanging out here. Not many. About the same number who stood up when the target was me or PodTech. Despite PodTech investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in this community. Tonight it's not about PodTech, but Zadi has invested tons of hours in this community and has evangelized it on many a stage that I've witnessed. So, where are the ones who stood up for her today? Not many. A community becomes how it treats its leaders. This one isn't well. what potential should we have? I don't know anymore. I find that I'm doing less and less videoblogging and more and more video streaming. http://www.qik.com http://www.qik.com/ and http://www.mogulus.com http://www.mogulus.com/ is totally changing how I think video on the Internet will be done. This community used to be fun. But the fun is happening over on Seesmic where they taunt newcomers to dance. Not sure how a community changes its stripes once it's given up that high ground. Sorry for being a killjoy on this weekend before Christmas, but this community needs to do better if it wants to grow. Me? I'll be over dancing on Seesmic and hanging out on Twitter. Robert Scoble [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- Me http://RyanEdit.com Twitter--http://twitter.com/Ryanne Documenting Green http://RyanIsHungry.com Educate http://FreeVlog.org iChat/AIM VideoRodeo [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I've seen the death of communities before and this one sure seems to be in decline. Message traffic is down. Helpfulness is down. And evidence of beating up on leadership is up. Good luck with that. See ya over on Twitter. Robert Robert Scoble ladies and gentleman. he'll be playing over at http://scobleizer.com/. god bless. jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Video: http://ryanishungry.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
you guys suck just kidding! there have been a few bad apples in here, and drawn out terrible back-and-forths that made me stop reading this group. that said, the community is still here (or, there, or various places if we look). cheryl colan's thread is proof that the videoblogging community exists, and is sensitive and strong and passionate. however i prefer to keep up with that community on Twitter for the most part. all my very best of the season to you, each and every one. -chuck plug! working on the final ((?)) Vlog Santa going up soon: http://vlogsanta.tv
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Robert Scoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's interesting that I've gotten several emails in the past few minutes agreeing with me, though (funny too that they asked not to be dragged into this here). I've seen the death of communities before and this one sure seems to be in decline. Message traffic is down. Helpfulness is down. And evidence of beating up on leadership is up. I've seen this movie a couple of times. It typically forks when one group of folks becomes professional and another group stays indie. It happens in waves in the film and music business, and it happens on the interwebs. When blogging was fresh and new a contingent of folks got really upset that we--gasp!!!--paid bloggers for working on Engadget, Joystiq, Autoblog, TUAW.com, etc. Of course, those bloggers maintained their voice and ethics--they just got paid to do the same thing. The indie folks believed that commerce had no place in blogging, while other thought gee, this is fun to do for an hour a day... I wonder what it would be like if I could quit my job and do this full time? A portion, not all, of the folks who didn't grow either commercially or non-commercially started to look at the increasing profile of the other bloggers and get more and more upset. Haters hate... as Kanye would say. I'm no expert to the history of this group (i've been on and off of it lurking for a while), but it seems to be a similar issue going on in vlogging. One group is getting commercial success while others are holding on to the non-commercial roots. At the end of the day vlogging, blogging, twittering, justin.tv-ing, etc. can be done for any number of reasons. Some folks play music for a living, some folks live to play music... different strokes/all good. Everyone should be happy for each other and the choices they make. I never come down hard on the artist trying to make a living... it ain't easy. best jason
[videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
I've been a part of this community for over a year, having taken over from Peter at Mefeedia.com one year ago. Since then, this community has been nothing but supportive. I've learned and grown from being a part of this community. I hope that I've been able to contribute both on this group and over at Mefeedia. The artists here are amazing - in my 7 years living in LA, i have never seen such a large amount of collaboration and giving back as i have seen here. Sure, criticism happens - but 99% of the time, it is constructive / great conversation and the non-constructive ones are typically ignored. At the end of the day, the work people are producing speaks for itself - and those videos continue to get better and better. Regards, -Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, I find there's a nugget of truth in the cliche that you get from a community what you put into it, both in quality and kind. A cooperative spirit and an open mind will generaly yield a more positive experience than an attitude of Help me! Help me! Validate me! Love me! FUCK YOU! Or so I hear. ;) Chris
Re: [videoblogging] Re: the inevitable conversation about what we're doing
Glad to see Calacanis took time off from raping puppies, or whatever he does out there in the Hall of Doom, to be the voice of reason here. Funny to see Scoble trying to melodramatically leave all of us loser videobloggers in the pre-video-streaming dust. How can anyone with as much experience in web video possibly compare Seesmic or Justin tv et al to what most of us are doing? It's like comparing a phone call with grandma to an episode of The Office. Two completely different methods of communications. I'm tired to think clear after sitting in an airport bar for 8 hours waiting for a flight that was eventually canceled. As for the commercial vs personal shitbag salad of an argument that perpetually pops up, I say, if you can make money and still get your point across, just fucking do it. You don't hear people complaining about Da Vinci taking money to paint the last supper. JC was the original product placement. Does anyone remember who paid him to paint it? Goodnight you shitty, worthless community of losers. I'll never leave you. On Dec 24, 2007 12:22 AM, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, I find there's a nugget of truth in the cliche that you get from a community what you put into it, both in quality and kind. A cooperative spirit and an open mind will generaly yield a more positive experience than an attitude of Help me! Help me! Validate me! Love me! FUCK YOU! Or so I hear. ;) Chris Yahoo! Groups Links -- Adam Quirk Wreck Salvage 551.208.4644 Brooklyn, NY http://wreckandsalvage.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
