RE: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hey folks,

Just remember there are a lot of people on these lists that take part in the 
beta testing programs both developer and public user beta testers,

May be ask the question to them if they have identified any of these mentioned 
issues

Or join the beta testers list  and find out more about what people are helping 
correct.

I’ll be updating my primary device tomorrow when things are released,
I’ve got no issue working through problems
It’s called life!

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Dawn 
Bilpuch
Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 12:23 pm
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and 
Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users

Yeah. I agree it does look bad. A lot of the bugs I read about when I seen this 
seem to affect stuff I use daily if not regularly. Such as folders, the 
sharesheet bug, and apps not being announced in the app switcher.

I don't think I'll update tomorrow either. I wish I could, because some of the 
features I'm really looking forward to. But, to me, for my use case, it's not 
worth the risk.
I think I'll wait at least a couple versions in before updating, and, I'll be 
watching AppleVis VERY CLOSELY.

I realize that the decision is personal. And that there's many many different 
use cases and configurations. But, in my eyes, if you use folders, sharesheet, 
or anything else that's affected by these bugs, then I wouldn't consider 
updating.


On Sep 19, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Rafał Marzec 
mailto:bluewings1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I must say that it looks really bad
Probably I will not upgrade till they will fix basic problems
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:
From: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
mailto:newslet...@applevis.com>>
Date: 18 September 2021 at 8:57:43 am BST
To: bluewings1...@gmail.com
Subject: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved 
in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users
Reply-To: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
mailto:newslet...@applevis.com>>


View in 
browser

The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for 
Blind and Low Vision Users

iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 will be released to the public on Monday 20 September, 
2021. As is our tradition, we have posted to the AppleVis website a list of 
VoiceOver, low vision, and braille bugs which we believe will be introduced in 
these releases; as well as details of the pre-existing bugs which we believe to 
be resolved.

If you have already read our post to AppleVis, there will be nothing new for 
you in this email, so we apologise for repeating ourselves and wish you a great 
weekend. However, we know that many in our community won’t yet have seen the 
post, so decided to mail it to our newsletter subscribers - this should 
hopefully ensure that as many people as possible are aware of what to expect 
when the public releases of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 become available on Monday.

As is our routine practice, each new bug has been given a severity rating; 
these ratings are based upon what we believe to be the implications for 
accessing and using features and functionality and the level of impact on the 
overall user experience, as well as whether or not there is an effective 
workaround for the issue. However, as these ratings are subjective, it is very 
possible that they may not reflect your own opinion or use case.

As we always stress, we can make no claims on the completeness or accuracy of 
our testing. We have only a small team of testers, and it is simply impossible 
for us to test all devices, configurations, applications, and use cases; this 
is even more important to note now as Apple’s ecosystem continues to expand and 
the number of possible device configurations increases. Some of the bugs listed 
below will be specific to a certain device, configuration or use case. 
Consequently, it is entirely likely that you will not encounter all of what we 
list; and it is also probable that you will encounter bugs or regressions that 
we did not identify during our testing.

We strongly recommend that you read through this email and all of the replies 
to our post on 
AppleVis
 before updating—as this will allow you to make an informed decision on whether 
to install iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 at the current time or to wait for a future 
release.

To help us ensure that the information is as complete and accurate as possible, 
we would appreciate feedback from those who have installed iOS 15 or iPadOS 15 
—both to confirm whether they are encountering the same problems (or have found 
workarounds), as well as to let us know of any additional issues that are not 
on this list. Of course, 

Alternative Characters Hidden, Question About Arabic Keyboard of iPhone?

[Fazil]

Hi, Group.

My question is about the Arabic Keyboard of iPhone. When I double-tap and
hold a character in order to get more characters related to it, VoiceOver,
sometimes, says 'Alternative Characters Hidden',. Can I unhide these hidden
characters?

Thanks!

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users

[Joshua Hendrickson]

I don't use folders, and I have no idea what sharesheet is, but I
don't think I'll be updating tomorrow either.  First, I don't think my
iPhone has enough space for the update.  Also, I don't like the bug
about the app switcher not always letting you know what apps are in
it.  I'll wait a little before updating.  I also don't see anything in
IOS 15 with my iPhone 8, that would really benefit me.  I've
personally felt that way about most of the recent updates.  That is
one reason why I will get a new iPhone next year, since with the
better chip, I'll have access to new features.

On 9/19/21, Dawn Bilpuch  wrote:
> Yeah. I agree it does look bad. A lot of the bugs I read about when I seen
> this seem to affect stuff I use daily if not regularly. Such as folders, the
> sharesheet bug, and apps not being announced in the app switcher.
>
> I don't think I'll update tomorrow either. I wish I could, because some of
> the features I'm really looking forward to. But, to me, for my use case,
> it's not worth the risk.
> I think I'll wait at least a couple versions in before updating, and, I'll
> be watching AppleVis VERY CLOSELY.
>
> I realize that the decision is personal. And that there's many many
> different use cases and configurations. But, in my eyes, if you use folders,
> sharesheet, or anything else that's affected by these bugs, then I wouldn't
> consider updating.
>
>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Rafał Marzec 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I must say that it looks really bad
>> Probably I will not upgrade till they will fix basic problems
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
>>> Date: 18 September 2021 at 8:57:43 am BST
>>> To: bluewings1...@gmail.com
>>> Subject: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and
>>> Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users
>>> Reply-To: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
>>>
>>> 
>>> View in browser
>>>
>>> The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15
>>> for Blind and Low Vision Users
>>>
>>> iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 will be released to the public on Monday 20
>>> September, 2021. As is our tradition, we have posted to the AppleVis
>>> website a list of VoiceOver, low vision, and braille bugs which we
>>> believe will be introduced in these releases; as well as details of the
>>> pre-existing bugs which we believe to be resolved.
>>>
>>> If you have already read our post to AppleVis, there will be nothing new
>>> for you in this email, so we apologise for repeating ourselves and wish
>>> you a great weekend. However, we know that many in our community won’t
>>> yet have seen the post, so decided to mail it to our newsletter
>>> subscribers - this should hopefully ensure that as many people as
>>> possible are aware of what to expect when the public releases of iOS 15
>>> and iPadOS 15 become available on Monday.
>>>
>>> As is our routine practice, each new bug has been given a severity
>>> rating; these ratings are based upon what we believe to be the
>>> implications for accessing and using features and functionality and the
>>> level of impact on the overall user experience, as well as whether or not
>>> there is an effective workaround for the issue. However, as these ratings
>>> are subjective, it is very possible that they may not reflect your own
>>> opinion or use case.
>>>
>>> As we always stress, we can make no claims on the completeness or
>>> accuracy of our testing. We have only a small team of testers, and it is
>>> simply impossible for us to test all devices, configurations,
>>> applications, and use cases; this is even more important to note now as
>>> Apple’s ecosystem continues to expand and the number of possible device
>>> configurations increases. Some of the bugs listed below will be specific
>>> to a certain device, configuration or use case. Consequently, it is
>>> entirely likely that you will not encounter all of what we list; and it
>>> is also probable that you will encounter bugs or regressions that we did
>>> not identify during our testing.
>>>
>>> We strongly recommend that you read through this email and all of the
>>> replies to our post on AppleVis before updating—as this will allow you to
>>> make an informed decision on whether to install iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 at
>>> the current time or to wait for a future release.
>>>
>>> To help us ensure that the information is as complete and accurate as
>>> possible, we would appreciate feedback from those who have installed iOS
>>> 15 or iPadOS 15 —both to confirm whether they are encountering the same
>>> problems (or have found workarounds), as well as to let us know of any
>>> additional issues that are not on this list. Of course, it’s even more
>>> important that you let Apple know of any additional bugs that you find
>>> (they already know about the ones currently listed here and are actively
>>> working on resolving them). This post explains why you should report bugs
>>> directly to 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Simon A Fogarty]

Not if you take in to account the new touch id buttons on the ipad air 4 and 
the new iPad mini,

They are a touch id built in to the power button which doesn't take up any 
screen realestate,

That's what was being meant. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kelly 
Pierce
Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 2:03 pm
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Sighted people want phones with edge to edge screens. A home button consumes 
valuable screen real estate that can be used for apps and videos.

On 9/19/21, lenron brown  wrote:
> streaming doesn't always cut it. I mean we had horrible cell service 
> when the last hurricane came through, and it's still messed up at 
> times. I would rather have a nice amount of storage and that's more 
> than 128 for sure. 256 is what my 12 pro max has. I think that's good 
> for now but who knows what I will need in a couple years.
>
> On 9/19/21, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>> Yeah that's would be great but hell the cost is crazy,
>>
>> But like you the lower storage is all I need although I've got 256gb 
>> and only currently use 50 approx,
>>
>> Because everythings on line or streamable.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf 
>> Of Sieghard Weitzel
>> Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 5:27 am
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb 
>> option, for me the smallest storage option is more than I need 
>> because I don't see any sense in, for example, having all my Audible 
>> books, well over 900 by now, downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want 
>> to listen to a book again I just find it in my library where I can 
>> then either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. I 
>> currently have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space 
>> on it, but as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium 
>> for that 1 Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great 
>> and Apple will thank you.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf 
>> Of Joshua Hendrickson
>> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
>> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
>> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
>> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>>
>> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
>>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard 
>>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're 
>>> getting the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from 
>>> in the standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar 
>>> at a painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find 
>>> clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller 
>>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
>>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing 
 AI and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.









 Richard

 “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
 with it.” – Jane Wagner



 My Web site: https://www.turner42.com





 *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On 
 Behalf Of *Michael Feir
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
 *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective



 I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
 look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 
 will prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence 
 related improvements.
 The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better 
 battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also 
 attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful 
 given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than 
 the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it 
 really can keep things steadily in focus.
 Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a 
 number of years.



 On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:

 I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet.
 We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still 

Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Kelly Pierce]

Sighted people want phones with edge to edge screens. A home button
consumes valuable screen real estate that can be used for apps and
videos.

On 9/19/21, lenron brown  wrote:
> streaming doesn't always cut it. I mean we had horrible cell service
> when the last hurricane came through, and it's still messed up at
> times. I would rather have a nice amount of storage and that's more
> than 128 for sure. 256 is what my 12 pro max has. I think that's good
> for now but who knows what I will need in a couple years.
>
> On 9/19/21, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
>> Yeah that's would be great but hell the cost is crazy,
>>
>> But like you the lower storage is all I need although I've got 256gb and
>> only currently use 50 approx,
>>
>> Because everythings on line or streamable.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
>> Sieghard Weitzel
>> Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 5:27 am
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb option,
>> for
>> me the smallest storage option is more than I need because I don't see
>> any
>> sense in, for example, having all my Audible books, well over 900 by now,
>> downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to listen to a book again I just
>> find it in my library where I can then either stream it or redownload it
>> in
>> about 10 seconds. I currently have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30
>> Gb
>> of free space on it, but as I always say, to each their own, you pay a
>> big
>> premium for that 1 Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's
>> great
>> and Apple will thank you.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
>> Joshua Hendrickson
>> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
>> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
>> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
>> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>>
>> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that
>>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard
>>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting
>>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the
>>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a
>>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever
>>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller
>>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to
>>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI
 and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.









 Richard

 “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch
 with it.” – Jane Wagner



 My Web site: https://www.turner42.com





 *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On
 Behalf Of *Michael Feir
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
 *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective



 I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I
 look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will
 prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related
 improvements.
 The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better
 battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also
 attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful given
 that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than the
 pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really can
 keep things steadily in focus.
 Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a
 number of years.



 On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:

 I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet.
 We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working
 great and does everything I need.

 > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 >
 > Hello Everyone,
 >
 > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
 >
 > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do
 > not have any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the
 > understatement of the
 season.
 >
 > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a

Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[lenron brown]

streaming doesn't always cut it. I mean we had horrible cell service
when the last hurricane came through, and it's still messed up at
times. I would rather have a nice amount of storage and that's more
than 128 for sure. 256 is what my 12 pro max has. I think that's good
for now but who knows what I will need in a couple years.

On 9/19/21, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> Yeah that's would be great but hell the cost is crazy,
>
> But like you the lower storage is all I need although I've got 256gb and
> only currently use 50 approx,
>
> Because everythings on line or streamable.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
> Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 5:27 am
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb option, for
> me the smallest storage option is more than I need because I don't see any
> sense in, for example, having all my Audible books, well over 900 by now,
> downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to listen to a book again I just
> find it in my library where I can then either stream it or redownload it in
> about 10 seconds. I currently have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb
> of free space on it, but as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big
> premium for that 1 Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great
> and Apple will thank you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
> Joshua Hendrickson
> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>
> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that
>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard
>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting
>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the
>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a
>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever
>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller
>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to
>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI
>>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch
>>> with it.” – Jane Wagner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I
>>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will
>>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related
>>> improvements.
>>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better
>>> battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also
>>> attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful given
>>> that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than the
>>> pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really can
>>> keep things steadily in focus.
>>> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a
>>> number of years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet.
>>> We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working
>>> great and does everything I need.
>>>
>>> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hello Everyone,
>>> >
>>> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>>> >
>>> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do
>>> > not have any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the
>>> > understatement of the
>>> season.
>>> >
>>> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a
>>> > new battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for
>>> > one more
>>> year
>>> > (smile).
>>> >
>>> > Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not
>>> > relish the idea of using any kind of device with the number 13
>>> > being part of its
>>> name
>>> > (smile).  It took all of my 

Re: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users

[Gerardo Corripio]

Me too! I was realY looking forward especially to trying out the "Focus" 
feature! but yes I find too the bugs might interfeer with my iPhone's daily 
use/effectiveness, thus I tino plan to wait at least for the next update before 
taking the plunge.

Gera
Enviado desde mi iPhone SE (2nd Generation) de Telcel

> El 19 sep 2021, a la(s) 7:22 p.m., Dawn Bilpuch  
> escribió:
> 
> 
> Yeah. I agree it does look bad. A lot of the bugs I read about when I seen 
> this seem to affect stuff I use daily if not regularly. Such as folders, the 
> sharesheet bug, and apps not being announced in the app switcher.
> 
> I don't think I'll update tomorrow either. I wish I could, because some of 
> the features I'm really looking forward to. But, to me, for my use case, it's 
> not worth the risk.
> I think I'll wait at least a couple versions in before updating, and, I'll be 
> watching AppleVis VERY CLOSELY.
> 
> I realize that the decision is personal. And that there's many many different 
> use cases and configurations. But, in my eyes, if you use folders, 
> sharesheet, or anything else that's affected by these bugs, then I wouldn't 
> consider updating.
> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Rafał Marzec  wrote:
>>> 
>> I must say that it looks really bad
>> Probably I will not upgrade till they will fix basic problems
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>>> From: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
>>> Date: 18 September 2021 at 8:57:43 am BST
>>> To: bluewings1...@gmail.com
>>> Subject: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and 
>>> Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users
>>> Reply-To: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> View in browser
>>> 
>>> The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for 
>>> Blind and Low Vision Users
>>> 
>>> iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 will be released to the public on Monday 20 September, 
>>> 2021. As is our tradition, we have posted to the AppleVis website a list of 
>>> VoiceOver, low vision, and braille bugs which we believe will be introduced 
>>> in these releases; as well as details of the pre-existing bugs which we 
>>> believe to be resolved.
>>> 
>>> If you have already read our post to AppleVis, there will be nothing new 
>>> for you in this email, so we apologise for repeating ourselves and wish you 
>>> a great weekend. However, we know that many in our community won’t yet have 
>>> seen the post, so decided to mail it to our newsletter subscribers - this 
>>> should hopefully ensure that as many people as possible are aware of what 
>>> to expect when the public releases of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 become available 
>>> on Monday.
>>> 
>>> As is our routine practice, each new bug has been given a severity rating; 
>>> these ratings are based upon what we believe to be the implications for 
>>> accessing and using features and functionality and the level of impact on 
>>> the overall user experience, as well as whether or not there is an 
>>> effective workaround for the issue. However, as these ratings are 
>>> subjective, it is very possible that they may not reflect your own opinion 
>>> or use case.
>>> 
>>> As we always stress, we can make no claims on the completeness or accuracy 
>>> of our testing. We have only a small team of testers, and it is simply 
>>> impossible for us to test all devices, configurations, applications, and 
>>> use cases; this is even more important to note now as Apple’s ecosystem 
>>> continues to expand and the number of possible device configurations 
>>> increases. Some of the bugs listed below will be specific to a certain 
>>> device, configuration or use case. Consequently, it is entirely likely that 
>>> you will not encounter all of what we list; and it is also probable that 
>>> you will encounter bugs or regressions that we did not identify during our 
>>> testing.
>>> 
>>> We strongly recommend that you read through this email and all of the 
>>> replies to our post on AppleVis before updating—as this will allow you to 
>>> make an informed decision on whether to install iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 at the 
>>> current time or to wait for a future release.
>>> 
>>> To help us ensure that the information is as complete and accurate as 
>>> possible, we would appreciate feedback from those who have installed iOS 15 
>>> or iPadOS 15 —both to confirm whether they are encountering the same 
>>> problems (or have found workarounds), as well as to let us know of any 
>>> additional issues that are not on this list. Of course, it’s even more 
>>> important that you let Apple know of any additional bugs that you find 
>>> (they already know about the ones currently listed here and are actively 
>>> working on resolving them). This post explains why you should report bugs 
>>> directly to Apple, as well as the best ways to do so.
>>> 
>>> With all of the preamble out of the way, here are the new bugs for blind 
>>> and low vision users which we believe to be present 

Re: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users

[Dawn Bilpuch]

Yeah. I agree it does look bad. A lot of the bugs I read about when I seen this 
seem to affect stuff I use daily if not regularly. Such as folders, the 
sharesheet bug, and apps not being announced in the app switcher.

I don't think I'll update tomorrow either. I wish I could, because some of the 
features I'm really looking forward to. But, to me, for my use case, it's not 
worth the risk.
I think I'll wait at least a couple versions in before updating, and, I'll be 
watching AppleVis VERY CLOSELY.

I realize that the decision is personal. And that there's many many different 
use cases and configurations. But, in my eyes, if you use folders, sharesheet, 
or anything else that's affected by these bugs, then I wouldn't consider 
updating.

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Rafał Marzec  wrote:
> 
> I must say that it looks really bad
> Probably I will not upgrade till they will fix basic problems
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
>> Date: 18 September 2021 at 8:57:43 am BST
>> To: bluewings1...@gmail.com
>> Subject: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and 
>> Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users
>> Reply-To: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
>> 
>> 
>> View in browser
>> 
>> The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for 
>> Blind and Low Vision Users
>> 
>> iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 will be released to the public on Monday 20 September, 
>> 2021. As is our tradition, we have posted to the AppleVis website a list of 
>> VoiceOver, low vision, and braille bugs which we believe will be introduced 
>> in these releases; as well as details of the pre-existing bugs which we 
>> believe to be resolved.
>> 
>> If you have already read our post to AppleVis, there will be nothing new for 
>> you in this email, so we apologise for repeating ourselves and wish you a 
>> great weekend. However, we know that many in our community won’t yet have 
>> seen the post, so decided to mail it to our newsletter subscribers - this 
>> should hopefully ensure that as many people as possible are aware of what to 
>> expect when the public releases of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 become available on 
>> Monday.
>> 
>> As is our routine practice, each new bug has been given a severity rating; 
>> these ratings are based upon what we believe to be the implications for 
>> accessing and using features and functionality and the level of impact on 
>> the overall user experience, as well as whether or not there is an effective 
>> workaround for the issue. However, as these ratings are subjective, it is 
>> very possible that they may not reflect your own opinion or use case.
>> 
>> As we always stress, we can make no claims on the completeness or accuracy 
>> of our testing. We have only a small team of testers, and it is simply 
>> impossible for us to test all devices, configurations, applications, and use 
>> cases; this is even more important to note now as Apple’s ecosystem 
>> continues to expand and the number of possible device configurations 
>> increases. Some of the bugs listed below will be specific to a certain 
>> device, configuration or use case. Consequently, it is entirely likely that 
>> you will not encounter all of what we list; and it is also probable that you 
>> will encounter bugs or regressions that we did not identify during our 
>> testing.
>> 
>> We strongly recommend that you read through this email and all of the 
>> replies to our post on AppleVis before updating—as this will allow you to 
>> make an informed decision on whether to install iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 at the 
>> current time or to wait for a future release.
>> 
>> To help us ensure that the information is as complete and accurate as 
>> possible, we would appreciate feedback from those who have installed iOS 15 
>> or iPadOS 15 —both to confirm whether they are encountering the same 
>> problems (or have found workarounds), as well as to let us know of any 
>> additional issues that are not on this list. Of course, it’s even more 
>> important that you let Apple know of any additional bugs that you find (they 
>> already know about the ones currently listed here and are actively working 
>> on resolving them). This post explains why you should report bugs directly 
>> to Apple, as well as the best ways to do so.
>> 
>> With all of the preamble out of the way, here are the new bugs for blind and 
>> low vision users which we believe to be present in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15:
>> 
>> Serious Bugs
>> 
>> Apple Wallet will crash if you attempt to use any card, ticket, or pass 
>> other than the first one listed. As a workaround, our experience suggests 
>> that whilst on this screen you should be able to use “Move up” from the 
>> VoiceOver rotor on the desired card, ticket or pass to temporarily move it 
>> to the top of the list. Unfortunately, in our own testing, this process 
>> hasn’t always behaved as expected or been reliable.

Fwd: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users

[Rafał Marzec]

I must say that it looks really bad
Probably I will not upgrade till they will fix basic problems

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
> Date: 18 September 2021 at 8:57:43 am BST
> To: bluewings1...@gmail.com
> Subject: [AppleVis Newsletter] The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved 
> in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for Blind and Low Vision Users
> Reply-To: The AppleVis Editorial Team 
> 
> 
> View in browser
> 
> The Accessibility Bugs Introduced and Resolved in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 for 
> Blind and Low Vision Users
> 
> iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 will be released to the public on Monday 20 September, 
> 2021. As is our tradition, we have posted to the AppleVis website a list of 
> VoiceOver, low vision, and braille bugs which we believe will be introduced 
> in these releases; as well as details of the pre-existing bugs which we 
> believe to be resolved.
> 
> If you have already read our post to AppleVis, there will be nothing new for 
> you in this email, so we apologise for repeating ourselves and wish you a 
> great weekend. However, we know that many in our community won’t yet have 
> seen the post, so decided to mail it to our newsletter subscribers - this 
> should hopefully ensure that as many people as possible are aware of what to 
> expect when the public releases of iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 become available on 
> Monday.
> 
> As is our routine practice, each new bug has been given a severity rating; 
> these ratings are based upon what we believe to be the implications for 
> accessing and using features and functionality and the level of impact on the 
> overall user experience, as well as whether or not there is an effective 
> workaround for the issue. However, as these ratings are subjective, it is 
> very possible that they may not reflect your own opinion or use case.
> 
> As we always stress, we can make no claims on the completeness or accuracy of 
> our testing. We have only a small team of testers, and it is simply 
> impossible for us to test all devices, configurations, applications, and use 
> cases; this is even more important to note now as Apple’s ecosystem continues 
> to expand and the number of possible device configurations increases. Some of 
> the bugs listed below will be specific to a certain device, configuration or 
> use case. Consequently, it is entirely likely that you will not encounter all 
> of what we list; and it is also probable that you will encounter bugs or 
> regressions that we did not identify during our testing.
> 
> We strongly recommend that you read through this email and all of the replies 
> to our post on AppleVis before updating—as this will allow you to make an 
> informed decision on whether to install iOS 15 and iPadOS 15 at the current 
> time or to wait for a future release.
> 
> To help us ensure that the information is as complete and accurate as 
> possible, we would appreciate feedback from those who have installed iOS 15 
> or iPadOS 15 —both to confirm whether they are encountering the same problems 
> (or have found workarounds), as well as to let us know of any additional 
> issues that are not on this list. Of course, it’s even more important that 
> you let Apple know of any additional bugs that you find (they already know 
> about the ones currently listed here and are actively working on resolving 
> them). This post explains why you should report bugs directly to Apple, as 
> well as the best ways to do so.
> 
> With all of the preamble out of the way, here are the new bugs for blind and 
> low vision users which we believe to be present in iOS 15 and iPadOS 15:
> 
> Serious Bugs
> 
> Apple Wallet will crash if you attempt to use any card, ticket, or pass other 
> than the first one listed. As a workaround, our experience suggests that 
> whilst on this screen you should be able to use “Move up” from the VoiceOver 
> rotor on the desired card, ticket or pass to temporarily move it to the top 
> of the list. Unfortunately, in our own testing, this process hasn’t always 
> behaved as expected or been reliable.
> The Wallet app crashes if you use the swipe gesture to navigate through 
> cards, tickets, and passes listed on the main window of the app. As a 
> workaround, our experience suggests that you can still explore the screen by 
> touch and then activate the desired card.
> The time picker used when creating or editing a scheduled Screen time 
> downtime or app limit is not accessible with VoiceOver. Specifically, if you 
> navigate to Settings > Screen Time > Downtime and enable “Scheduled”, the 
> picker used to set the start and end times is not accessible, as is the 
> picker used with setting app limits.
> The Apple One subscription screen is not accessible with VoiceOver. 
> Specifically, if you do not currently subscribe to Apple One and go to your 
> Subscriptions screen through the App Store or Settings app, and then select 
> the button to view the Apple One bundle options, 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Simon A Fogarty]

Yeah that's would be great but hell the cost is crazy,

But like you the lower storage is all I need although I've got 256gb and only 
currently use 50 approx,

Because everythings on line or streamable.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 5:27 am
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb option, for me 
the smallest storage option is more than I need because I don't see any sense 
in, for example, having all my Audible books, well over 900 by now, downloaded 
on my phone. Whenever I want to listen to a book again I just find it in my 
library where I can then either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. 
I currently have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space on it, 
but as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium for that 1 Tb 
storage, but if it is what you want then that's great and Apple will thank you.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Joshua 
Hendrickson
Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.  I'm 
hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.

On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard 
> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting 
> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the 
> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a 
> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever 
> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller 
> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
>> with it.” – Jane Wagner
>>
>>
>>
>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On 
>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>>
>>
>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will 
>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related 
>> improvements.
>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better 
>> battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also 
>> attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful given 
>> that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than the 
>> pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really can 
>> keep things steadily in focus.
>> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a 
>> number of years.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>
>> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. 
>> We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working 
>> great and does everything I need.
>>
>> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Everyone,
>> >
>> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>> >
>> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do 
>> > not have any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the 
>> > understatement of the
>> season.
>> >
>> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a 
>> > new battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for 
>> > one more
>> year
>> > (smile).
>> >
>> > Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not 
>> > relish the idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 
>> > being part of its
>> name
>> > (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install 
>> > iOS
>> 13!!!
>> > (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > The following information is important for all members of the V 
>> > iPhone
>> list.
>> >
>> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>> > list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> >
>> 

RE: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[Simon A Fogarty]

Why haven't you tried riding a bike by yourself or skiing by yourself?

I've done  both 
Cycling was fine until the fence jumped out at me stopping the bike suddenly.

And skiing was fine but the guide and instructors I was training got a bit 
concerned when I started skiing backwards telling them either direction I could 
see the same things.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 6:10 am
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

And I want to drive a car, ride a bike and go downhill skiing.
Actually I have done all three, but with sighted assistance. Well, I lost my 
sight a bit later in live so I knew how to drive and my Dad would let me drive 
on non-public roads after I lost my sight just for the fun of it, now after 
more than 30 years without sight I actually don't see the point in it any more.
As for riding a bike that of course is easy with a tandem bike and I downhill 
ski with a guide and communicating either with a radio headset like the ones 
they make for people who ride motorbikes and want to be able to chat, now of 
course it's even easier as long as the ski hill has cell coverage because we 
can wear a headset and I can just call my guide on the phone.
The point is that I can't do either of these fitness activities independently 
and while I don't disagree that maybe there is room for improvement with 
virtual fitness classes/workouts, it maybe be very possible to participate 
quite effectively if for the first few times you have sighted help who first 
describes to you what exactly you have to do. I have sometimes gone to one of 
these high energy workout classes at a local marshall arts Dojo and while of 
course I had to do some of the stuff with another person, anything that was 
done stationary like lunges, push-ups, sit-ups, squats etc. is easy as long as 
the instructor calls it out and you know how to do the move. However, there 
really is no way to fully describe the move in a fast-paced workout because it 
would take way too long so you have to know this before. Here is just one 
example from a website which describes how to do proper squats and even if you 
disregard the first part where a bit of background is given, just the actual 
seps would take quite long to explain and for a blind person who can't watch 
somebody else perform the move perfectly whether in person or on a video it may 
be even more difficult:

If you ever watch toddlers move, you’ll notice that they execute 
picture-perfect squats time and again. But when you’re well into adulthood, how 
to do squats becomes a little more of a loaded question: Are your feet in the 
right position? Are you getting down far enough? Should you add weight?
While there’s a lot to unpack with how to do a proper squat, the benefits of 
learning how to squat correctly are immense—squat variations not only help you 
get stronger during your workouts, but they also represent a movement pattern 
that you use during everyday life.
“In life, we squat all the time, from playing with our children to going to the 
bathroom to sitting on a chair, ” Noam Tamir, C.S.C.S., founder and CEO of TS 
Fitness in New York City, tells SELF. “It’s very much a functional movement.”
When you learn how to do squats correctly, you can really make the most out of 
the move—and your workout. Here’s what you need to know.

What muscles do squats work, and what are the benefits of squats?
Throughout the move, your core muscles fire in order to keep you steady. “Your 
abdominals are stabilizers,” he says. “So they assist in weight-bearing 
movements.” Strong core muscles are important because not only do they help you 
with your lifts, but they also reduce the risk of lower back pain. If you do a 
weighted squat—whether using a dumbbell in a goblet squat, two dumbbells in a 
front squat, or a barbell in either a back or front squat—you’re also working 
your upper body. That’s because the move requires an isometric holding of 
weight, a static muscle contraction without any movement, Tamir says.
Weighted squats, like other forms of load-bearing physical activity, also 
benefit your bones: They help you build stronger bones, he says, which can help 
prevent osteopenia or osteoporosis as you get older. Plus, since a proper squat 
requires mobility in your hips and ankles, you can also consider squatting a 
mobility exercise that can help you move better, Tamir says.

Everything you need to know about how to do squats Before you start adding 
weight, you want to get the squat motion down with bodyweight squats first. 
Form is key, since performing squats properly can cut down the risk of injury 
during the move. Here’s what you need to know about doing squats correctly, and 
how you can avoid some common squatting mistakes.

1. Assume the squat stance.
Before you squat, you should get in proper squat position: Keep your feet 

Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Joshua Hendrickson]

I find the router easy to use.  I don't use it all that much, but it
is convenient when I do need to use it, like going to links when I
receive a link in a text message.

On 9/19/21, Barbara Stahl  wrote:
> Thanks everyone. I will try out both methods and see which works better for
> me. I had no idea you could adjust the speaking rate using the double tap
> and hold and then sliding your finger gesture. I typically never have the
> change speaking rate or volume controls on the roder because I often
> accidentally changed the settings while doing other gestures on my screen. I
> will have to put them back on the roder to try them out.  I will likely then
> remove them again until I need to make a change to the settings again.
>
>
>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Carolyn <4carol...@windstream.net> wrote:
>>
>> Barbara, I had the exact, same problem. Someone told me to use the rotor,
>> and mine is at 55. I tend to avoid the rotor like the plague.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Barbara Stahl
>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:29 PM
>> To: Viphone 
>> Subject: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.
>>
>> Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 percent
>> increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I had VO set at
>> 60 and it read just a bit too fast, but I could only seem to move the VO
>> speaking rate at ten percent increments and 50 percent was too slow.
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
>> list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/3470B81B-4967-4C7A-9571-616F13EBD6F7%40gmail.com.
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
>> list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/032901d7ad8c%24a91c9b90%24fb55d2b0%24%40windstream.net.
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/01F0AD5D-D966-48CC-A4A4-B100234497C4%40gmail.com.
>


-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Simon A Fogarty]

I don't believe it's not that they don't want it,

I think it's more about they want something more up market or should I say out 
there in  the world of different type of feature.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 6:12 am
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

And apparently Apple has a perfectly functioning home button with touch Id 
since they use it on certain iPad models including the newest iPad Mini, but I 
guess they don't want this for the iPhone.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kelly 
Pierce
Sent: September 19, 2021 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Every year, Apple continues to develop a new version of touch ID. The rumor 
mill says the company actually created a prototype of the iPhone
13 with touch ID. Somehow, the new touch ID does not meet Apple’s standards and 
the team continues to develop the technology. I am not holding my breath over 
it.

Podcasts and music drive my quest for more storage. I have 128 GB of storage 
and look forward to an iPhone 13 with 512 GB. A trip longer than two weeks can 
mean that all music gets listened to once. Old podcast episodes are retained 
until the vacation.  The extra storage means I can listen to my favorite music 
on the road without having to turn to Spotify or Pandora and burn cell phone 
data.  Apple’s biggest racket is charging $100 for 128 gigs of data, several 
times over what the local computer shop charges for a thumb drive of the same 
storage.
Yet, the extra price is less than what someone would pay in extra data charges 
for a streaming service if that service were of no charge to the consumer.

Kelly



On 9/19/21, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb 
> option, for me the smallest storage option is more than I need because 
> I don't see any sense in, for example, having all my Audible books, 
> well over 900 by now, downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to 
> listen to a book again I just find it in my library where I can then 
> either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. I currently 
> have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space on it, but 
> as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium for that 1 
> Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great and Apple will thank 
> you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>
> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard 
>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting 
>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the 
>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a 
>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever 
>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller 
>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
>>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
>>> with it.” – Jane Wagner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
>>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will 
>>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related 
>>> improvements.
>>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better 
>>> battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also 
>>> attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful 
>>> given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than 
>>> the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really 
>>> can keep things 

Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Joshua Hendrickson]

I like my iPhone plan with Verizon.  For $27 and some change, I get
unlimited talk and text, and 5 gigs of data.  I accidentally used a
lot of that data up yesterday when watching movies.  For me, data is
important, because our internet is so crappy.  Sometimes, our wifi
just cuts out completely, and I have to turn it off, then back on
again.  If I need more data, then it would cost me only $10 for
another 10 gigs of data.  A couple weeks ago, I was at my brothers
house dog sitting and it was awesome.  I could download bard books on
his WIFI incredibly fast.  At the beginning of next year, I'll
probably upgrade to the 15 gig option.  Verizon also gives me $5 off
because I use auto pay, and also $10 off per month because I've been a
Verizon customer for so many years.

On 9/19/21, Christopher Chaltain  wrote:
> A couple of things I do to live with my 128G of storage and within the data
> limits of my plan are to leverage streaming services and cloud storage and
> take advantage of a wi-fi network when available. I'll download books,
> podcasts and music if I'm traveling and think I'll be away from wi-fi for
> any length of time. I'm not paying exorbitant fees for downloading data and
> I'm not running out of storage on my iPhone 11. This may not work for
> everyone though.
>
> --
> Christopher (AKA CJ)
> Chaltain at Outlook
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kelly
> Pierce
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 1:09 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> Every year, Apple continues to develop a new version of touch ID. The rumor
> mill says the company actually created a prototype of the iPhone
> 13 with touch ID. Somehow, the new touch ID does not meet Apple's standards
> and the team continues to develop the technology. I am not holding my breath
> over it.
>
> Podcasts and music drive my quest for more storage. I have 128 GB of storage
> and look forward to an iPhone 13 with 512 GB. A trip longer than two weeks
> can mean that all music gets listened to once. Old podcast episodes are
> retained until the vacation.  The extra storage means I can listen to my
> favorite music on the road without having to turn to Spotify or Pandora and
> burn cell phone data.  Apple's biggest racket is charging $100 for 128 gigs
> of data, several times over what the local computer shop charges for a thumb
> drive of the same storage.
> Yet, the extra price is less than what someone would pay in extra data
> charges for a streaming service if that service were of no charge to the
> consumer.
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
> On 9/19/21, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
>> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb
>> option, for me the smallest storage option is more than I need because
>> I don't see any sense in, for example, having all my Audible books,
>> well over 900 by now, downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to
>> listen to a book again I just find it in my library where I can then
>> either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. I currently
>> have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space on it, but
>> as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium for that 1
>> Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great and Apple will
>> thank you.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
>> Joshua Hendrickson
>> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
>> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
>> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
>> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>>
>> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that
>>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard
>>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting
>>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the
>>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a
>>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever
>>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller
>>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to
>>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI
 and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.









 Richard

 "Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch
 with it." - Jane Wagner



 My Web site:
 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Christopher Chaltain]

A couple of things I do to live with my 128G of storage and within the data 
limits of my plan are to leverage streaming services and cloud storage and take 
advantage of a wi-fi network when available. I'll download books, podcasts and 
music if I'm traveling and think I'll be away from wi-fi for any length of 
time. I'm not paying exorbitant fees for downloading data and I'm not running 
out of storage on my iPhone 11. This may not work for everyone though.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kelly 
Pierce
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 1:09 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Every year, Apple continues to develop a new version of touch ID. The rumor 
mill says the company actually created a prototype of the iPhone
13 with touch ID. Somehow, the new touch ID does not meet Apple's standards and 
the team continues to develop the technology. I am not holding my breath over 
it.

Podcasts and music drive my quest for more storage. I have 128 GB of storage 
and look forward to an iPhone 13 with 512 GB. A trip longer than two weeks can 
mean that all music gets listened to once. Old podcast episodes are retained 
until the vacation.  The extra storage means I can listen to my favorite music 
on the road without having to turn to Spotify or Pandora and burn cell phone 
data.  Apple's biggest racket is charging $100 for 128 gigs of data, several 
times over what the local computer shop charges for a thumb drive of the same 
storage.
Yet, the extra price is less than what someone would pay in extra data charges 
for a streaming service if that service were of no charge to the consumer.

Kelly



On 9/19/21, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb 
> option, for me the smallest storage option is more than I need because 
> I don't see any sense in, for example, having all my Audible books, 
> well over 900 by now, downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to 
> listen to a book again I just find it in my library where I can then 
> either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. I currently 
> have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space on it, but 
> as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium for that 1 
> Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great and Apple will thank 
> you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>
> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard 
>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting 
>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the 
>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a 
>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever 
>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller 
>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
>>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> "Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
>>> with it." - Jane Wagner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Web site: 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
>>> .turner42.com%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C56dd70a4af2543a27a0308d97b988
>>> f31%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637676717435033608%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
>>> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=0gs8iOXolEMnZLRzvC50ABh9Sivs
>>> %2BpABlIbN982S4r4%3Dreserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
>>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will 
>>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related 
>>> improvements.
>>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better 
>>> battery life and a 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Carolyn]

Thanks, Richard. I understand now. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Richard Turner
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 3:58 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Carolyn, and others, 
If you read about the way Seeing AI and SuperSense through their Super LIDAR 
app, are using this feature, it greatly enhances the ability to identify 
objects and give far more accurate information about how far away from you that 
object is.
Yes, it also enhances photography; but it also does a lot more.
Most uses granted will be for sighted people, like the fact that with LIDAR, 
apps can take a photograph of a room and give good enough measurements that an 
architect or interior decorater could make very good first draffts of their 
designs.
This will be the second year of its existance and I'm hoping the uses to help 
the visually impaired will continue to improve.
Plus, my wife can use my phone when she wants to take realy good photos/videos 




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." -- 
Jane Wagner 
  






website:  www.turner42.com



On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:39 PM, Carolyn <4carol...@windstream.net> wrote:



Exactly - having same issue trying to buy mobile home, charges are 
extra for steps, to mention one essential. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 2:14 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Just as any other company is charging extra for extra features whether 
it's a phone, a car, a computer or a barbecue, typically bigger means more 
money and more features means more money and bigger with more features will 
always cost the most; This is not a concept invented by Apple.



From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Richard Turner
Sent: September 19, 2021 11:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective



IF one needs to keep a huge amount of pictures, music, books, movies, 
then memory is a higher priority.

If one is focused on ease of picture taking, advances in object 
identification and location, then the camera features are a higher priority.



The iPhone 13 with 512 GB is the same price as the 13 pro with 256 GB.

So, pay a premium for extra memory, or pay a premium for extra 
features.  

Apple has you paying a premium for what you want any way you slice it.



Later,







Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with 
it.” – Jane Wagner



My Web site: 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.turner42.com%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C19188cddf99445630a2408d97ba53cc2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637676771887330704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=MrzHD%2FYkMvfFhQHBxEB9N27W5u3IIJx6nE6zJ50O34w%3Dreserved=0
 

 





From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Michael Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective



The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro 
models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of what 
most blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for 
substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg point. 
App developers need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough 
sales on a smaller percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is 
going to have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get 
going.



On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com> > wrote:

   I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for 

Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Barbara Stahl]

Thanks everyone. I will try out both methods and see which works better for me. 
I had no idea you could adjust the speaking rate using the double tap and hold 
and then sliding your finger gesture. I typically never have the change 
speaking rate or volume controls on the roder because I often accidentally 
changed the settings while doing other gestures on my screen. I will have to 
put them back on the roder to try them out.  I will likely then remove them 
again until I need to make a change to the settings again. 


> On Sep 19, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Carolyn <4carol...@windstream.net> wrote:
> 
> Barbara, I had the exact, same problem. Someone told me to use the rotor, 
> and mine is at 55. I tend to avoid the rotor like the plague. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Barbara Stahl
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:29 PM
> To: Viphone 
> Subject: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.
> 
> Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 percent 
> increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I had VO set at 60 
> and it read just a bit too fast, but I could only seem to move the VO 
> speaking rate at ten percent increments and 50 percent was too slow.  
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/3470B81B-4967-4C7A-9571-616F13EBD6F7%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/032901d7ad8c%24a91c9b90%24fb55d2b0%24%40windstream.net.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
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Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Richard Turner]

Carolyn, and others,
If you read about the way Seeing AI and SuperSense through their Super LIDAR 
app, are using this feature, it greatly enhances the ability to identify 
objects and give far more accurate information about how far away from you that 
object is.
Yes, it also enhances photography; but it also does a lot more.
Most uses granted will be for sighted people, like the fact that with LIDAR, 
apps can take a photograph of a room and give good enough measurements that an 
architect or interior decorater could make very good first draffts of their 
designs.
This will be the second year of its existance and I'm hoping the uses to help 
the visually impaired will continue to improve.
Plus, my wife can use my phone when she wants to take realy good photos/videos 




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." -- 
Jane Wagner





website:  www.turner42.com


On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:39 PM, Carolyn <4carol...@windstream.net> wrote:

Exactly - having same issue trying to buy mobile home, charges are extra for 
steps, to mention one essential.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 2:14 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Just as any other company is charging extra for extra features whether it's a 
phone, a car, a computer or a barbecue, typically bigger means more money and 
more features means more money and bigger with more features will always cost 
the most; This is not a concept invented by Apple.



From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: September 19, 2021 11:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective



IF one needs to keep a huge amount of pictures, music, books, movies, then 
memory is a higher priority.

If one is focused on ease of picture taking, advances in object identification 
and location, then the camera features are a higher priority.



The iPhone 13 with 512 GB is the same price as the 13 pro with 256 GB.

So, pay a premium for extra memory, or pay a premium for extra features.

Apple has you paying a premium for what you want any way you slice it.



Later,







Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner



My Web site: 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.turner42.com%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C19188cddf99445630a2408d97ba53cc2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637676771887330704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=MrzHD%2FYkMvfFhQHBxEB9N27W5u3IIJx6nE6zJ50O34w%3Dreserved=0
 






From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective



The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor 
included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro models. 
Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of what most 
blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for substantially 
less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg point. App developers 
need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a 
smaller percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.



On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com> > wrote:

   I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and 
Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.









   Richard

   “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” 
– Jane Wagner



   My Web site: 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.turner42.com%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C19188cddf99445630a2408d97ba53cc2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637676771887330704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=MrzHD%2FYkMvfFhQHBxEB9N27W5u3IIJx6nE6zJ50O34w%3Dreserved=0
 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Carolyn]

Exactly - having same issue trying to buy mobile home, charges are extra for 
steps, to mention one essential. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 2:14 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Just as any other company is charging extra for extra features whether it's a 
phone, a car, a computer or a barbecue, typically bigger means more money and 
more features means more money and bigger with more features will always cost 
the most; This is not a concept invented by Apple.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: September 19, 2021 11:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

 

IF one needs to keep a huge amount of pictures, music, books, movies, then 
memory is a higher priority.

If one is focused on ease of picture taking, advances in object identification 
and location, then the camera features are a higher priority.

 

The iPhone 13 with 512 GB is the same price as the 13 pro with 256 GB.

So, pay a premium for extra memory, or pay a premium for extra features.  

Apple has you paying a premium for what you want any way you slice it.

 

Later,

 

 

 

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner

 

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com  

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

 

The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor 
included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro models. 
Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of what most 
blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for substantially 
less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg point. App developers 
need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a 
smaller percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.

 

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com> > wrote:

I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.

 

 

 

 

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with 
it.” – Jane Wagner

 

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com 

 

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

 

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a 
better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements. The 
10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life and a 
three generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera improvements are 
also possibly quite helpful given that automatic stabilization is now on all 
phones rather than the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if 
it really can keep things steadily in focus. Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I 
won't have to upgrade again for a number of years.

 

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo mailto:n0...@charter.net> > wrote:

I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading 
yet. We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great 
and does everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> > wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
> 
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models 
do not have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement 
of the season.
> 
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to 

RE: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Carolyn]

Barbara, I had the exact, same problem. Someone told me to use the rotor, and 
mine is at 55. I tend to avoid the rotor like the plague. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Barbara Stahl
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:29 PM
To: Viphone 
Subject: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 percent 
increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I had VO set at 60 and 
it read just a bit too fast, but I could only seem to move the VO speaking rate 
at ten percent increments and 50 percent was too slow.  

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mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Carolyn]

Thanks, that answers my LIDAR question. I care nothing for photography; my 
daughter-in-love has a pro, and she's the one that really likes to take 
pictures. Still, Jim thinks that the iPhone has a great camera. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Michael Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:00 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor 
included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro models. 
Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of what most 
blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for substantially 
less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg point. App developers 
need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a 
smaller percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com> > wrote:


I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.

 

 

 

 

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with 
it.” – Jane Wagner

 

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com  

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com   
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Michael Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com  
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

 

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a 
better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements. The 
10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life and a 
three generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera improvements are 
also possibly quite helpful given that automatic stabilization is now on all 
phones rather than the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if 
it really can keep things steadily in focus. Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I 
won't have to upgrade again for a number of years.

 

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo mailto:n0...@charter.net> > wrote:

I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading 
yet. We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great 
and does everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> > wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
> 
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models 
do not have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement 
of the season.
> 
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, 
had a new
> battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for 
one more year
> (smile).
> 
> Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not 
relish the
> idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being 
part of its name
> (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to 
install iOS 13!!!
> (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin). 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the 
V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of 
this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be 
reached at:  mk...@ucla.edu  .  Your list owner is Cara 
Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Carolyn]

What is LIDAR. Is it an app to download or something else? 

I am asking, because recently I had an email from AT saying I was due an 
upgrade. 

As far an upgrade, if I could get it now, I would want the 13 mini. If I am 
only eligible for a 12 and wait, I am wondering if I switch from post to 
prepay, if that would have an adverse effect on my eligibility for upgrade in a 
few months. 

Incidentally, I want Starlight. 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Richard Turner
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 11:23 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and Super 
LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.

 

 

 

 

Richard

“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner

 

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com  

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

 

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look 
forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a better 
phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements. The 10R came 
out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life and a three 
generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera improvements are also 
possibly quite helpful given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones 
rather than the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it 
really can keep things steadily in focus. Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I 
won't have to upgrade again for a number of years.

 

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo mailto:n0...@charter.net> > wrote:

I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. 
We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and 
does everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> > wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
> 
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not 
have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the 
season.
> 
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more 
year
> (smile).
> 
> Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish 
the
> idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its 
name
> (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS 
13!!!
> (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin). 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V 
iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at: 
 mk...@ucla.edu  .  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com  
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/ 

 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
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 .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[CHELA Robles]

Well the only ones that I’ve been doing this far are the ones with the heading 
labeled time to walk audio watch workouts.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 11:46 AM, Anna Dresner  wrote:
> 
> These are good points, Sieghard. It might be possible to do a similar Blind 
> alive workout and then try one in Apple Fitness. there are a couple of Blind 
> Alive pilates workouts, for example. If you did those and then tried a 
> pilates workout in Apple Fitness, you might be able to follow it. My guess is 
> that slower workouts like yoga and pilates will work better than fast-paced 
> cardio ones, so they might be a good place to start. the Blind Alive workouts 
> include some very detailed exercise descriptions, though, so doing Blind 
> Alive cardio and interval training workouts might prepare you for similar 
> Apple fitness workouts. I know Apple Fitness also includes guided 
> meditations, so those might be nice even if the rest of the offerings are 
> frustrating.
> 
> Best,
> Anna
> 
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:42 PM, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
>> 
>> Then maybe take advantage of your 3 months because you may find it's useful 
>> after all.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
>> Jenifer Barr
>> Sent: September 19, 2021 6:47 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
>> 
>> Thank you for this thread.
>> I just activated my three-month free trial. Now I know I won't be renewing. 
>> lol. Granted... I haven't tried the app yet but... 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Sep 18, 2021, at 6:43 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Chela and thank you for the feedback.  
>>> 
>>> I don't know why but I just assumed that Apple had come up with some kind 
>>> of magical way of making this service accessible for blind and low vision 
>>> subscribers.
>>> 
>>> It just goes to show you that no matter how far we have come, there is 
>>> still so far to go.
>>> 
>>> Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of CHELA Robles
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:02 PM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
>>> 
>>> Hey Mark Taylor, it’s very interesting you bring up this topic because I 
>>> just tried it out not too long ago in fact I think I tried it out on Monday 
>>> and I quickly gave up because there weren’t any audio descriptions during 
>>> the video as to how to do certain things that’s why I chose to do the 
>>> walking workouts since all I had to do was walk even though I really wanted 
>>> to do the body core workouts those were not really described unfortunately 
>>> there’s some really good cardio ones but again you run the risk of them not 
>>> being described as far as the movements go. The walking ones are easier for 
>>> me since all I have to do is walk or run for a certain amount of minutes. 
>>> Sorry I can’t be very helpful. I only just recently started using Apple 
>>> fitness plus whatever it’s called since I already have an Apple one 
>>> subscription that has four services in one.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:00 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 Question:  does anyone use or has anyone used Apple Fitness Plus?  If 
 so, how was / is your experience?
 
 So much of the content is video-based, at least, that is how it 
 appears in all of the Apple Keynote Presentations.
 
 I know that they mentioned something about adding more audio-based 
 content to the service but just wanted to get some feedback here in the 
 forum.
 
 I look forward to your replies,
 
 Mark
 
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
 list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
 mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
 at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
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 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "VIPhone" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.

Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[Anna Dresner]

These are good points, Sieghard. It might be possible to do a similar Blind 
alive workout and then try one in Apple Fitness. there are a couple of Blind 
Alive pilates workouts, for example. If you did those and then tried a pilates 
workout in Apple Fitness, you might be able to follow it. My guess is that 
slower workouts like yoga and pilates will work better than fast-paced cardio 
ones, so they might be a good place to start. the Blind Alive workouts include 
some very detailed exercise descriptions, though, so doing Blind Alive cardio 
and interval training workouts might prepare you for similar Apple fitness 
workouts. I know Apple Fitness also includes guided meditations, so those might 
be nice even if the rest of the offerings are frustrating.

Best,
Anna


> On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:42 PM, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
> 
> Then maybe take advantage of your 3 months because you may find it's useful 
> after all.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Jenifer Barr
> Sent: September 19, 2021 6:47 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
> 
> Thank you for this thread.
> I just activated my three-month free trial. Now I know I won't be renewing. 
> lol. Granted... I haven't tried the app yet but... 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 18, 2021, at 6:43 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Chela and thank you for the feedback.  
>> 
>> I don't know why but I just assumed that Apple had come up with some kind of 
>> magical way of making this service accessible for blind and low vision 
>> subscribers.
>> 
>> It just goes to show you that no matter how far we have come, there is still 
>> so far to go.
>> 
>> Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On 
>> Behalf Of CHELA Robles
>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:02 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
>> 
>> Hey Mark Taylor, it’s very interesting you bring up this topic because I 
>> just tried it out not too long ago in fact I think I tried it out on Monday 
>> and I quickly gave up because there weren’t any audio descriptions during 
>> the video as to how to do certain things that’s why I chose to do the 
>> walking workouts since all I had to do was walk even though I really wanted 
>> to do the body core workouts those were not really described unfortunately 
>> there’s some really good cardio ones but again you run the risk of them not 
>> being described as far as the movements go. The walking ones are easier for 
>> me since all I have to do is walk or run for a certain amount of minutes. 
>> Sorry I can’t be very helpful. I only just recently started using Apple 
>> fitness plus whatever it’s called since I already have an Apple one 
>> subscription that has four services in one.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:00 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Question:  does anyone use or has anyone used Apple Fitness Plus?  If 
>>> so, how was / is your experience?
>>> 
>>> So much of the content is video-based, at least, that is how it 
>>> appears in all of the Apple Keynote Presentations.
>>> 
>>> I know that they mentioned something about adding more audio-based 
>>> content to the service but just wanted to get some feedback here in the 
>>> forum.
>>> 
>>> I look forward to your replies,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "VIPhone" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/01d7ab57%241116a480%243343ed80%24%40edu.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Just as any other company is charging extra for extra features whether it's a 
phone, a car, a computer or a barbecue, typically bigger means more money and 
more features means more money and bigger with more features will always cost 
the most; This is not a concept invented by Apple.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: September 19, 2021 11:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

IF one needs to keep a huge amount of pictures, music, books, movies, then 
memory is a higher priority.
If one is focused on ease of picture taking, advances in object identification 
and location, then the camera features are a higher priority.

The iPhone 13 with 512 GB is the same price as the 13 pro with 256 GB.
So, pay a premium for extra memory, or pay a premium for extra features.
Apple has you paying a premium for what you want any way you slice it.

Later,



Richard
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor 
included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro models. 
Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of what most 
blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for substantially 
less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg point. App developers 
need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a 
smaller percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and Super 
LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.




Richard
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: 
https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Michael Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look 
forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a better 
phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements. The 10R came 
out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life and a three 
generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera improvements are also 
possibly quite helpful given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones 
rather than the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it 
really can keep things steadily in focus. Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I 
won't have to upgrade again for a number of years.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo 
mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:
I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll see 
what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and does 
everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor 
> mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the season.
>
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more year
> (smile).
>
> Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish the
> idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its name
> (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS 13!!!
> (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
>
> Mark
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Sieghard Weitzel]

And apparently Apple has a perfectly functioning home button with touch Id 
since they use it on certain iPad models including the newest iPad Mini, but I 
guess they don't want this for the iPhone.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Kelly 
Pierce
Sent: September 19, 2021 11:09 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

Every year, Apple continues to develop a new version of touch ID. The rumor 
mill says the company actually created a prototype of the iPhone
13 with touch ID. Somehow, the new touch ID does not meet Apple’s standards and 
the team continues to develop the technology. I am not holding my breath over 
it.

Podcasts and music drive my quest for more storage. I have 128 GB of storage 
and look forward to an iPhone 13 with 512 GB. A trip longer than two weeks can 
mean that all music gets listened to once. Old podcast episodes are retained 
until the vacation.  The extra storage means I can listen to my favorite music 
on the road without having to turn to Spotify or Pandora and burn cell phone 
data.  Apple’s biggest racket is charging $100 for 128 gigs of data, several 
times over what the local computer shop charges for a thumb drive of the same 
storage.
Yet, the extra price is less than what someone would pay in extra data charges 
for a streaming service if that service were of no charge to the consumer.

Kelly



On 9/19/21, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb 
> option, for me the smallest storage option is more than I need because 
> I don't see any sense in, for example, having all my Audible books, 
> well over 900 by now, downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to 
> listen to a book again I just find it in my library where I can then 
> either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. I currently 
> have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space on it, but 
> as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium for that 1 
> Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great and Apple will thank 
> you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>
> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard 
>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting 
>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the 
>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a 
>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever 
>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller 
>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
>>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
>>> with it.” – Jane Wagner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
>>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will 
>>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related 
>>> improvements.
>>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better 
>>> battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also 
>>> attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful 
>>> given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than 
>>> the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really 
>>> can keep things steadily in focus.
>>> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a 
>>> number of years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet.
>>> We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working 
>>> great and does everything I need.
>>>
>>> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 

RE: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[Sieghard Weitzel]

And I want to drive a car, ride a bike and go downhill skiing.
Actually I have done all three, but with sighted assistance. Well, I lost my 
sight a bit later in live so I knew how to drive and my Dad would let me drive 
on non-public roads after I lost my sight just for the fun of it, now after 
more than 30 years without sight I actually don't see the point in it any more.
As for riding a bike that of course is easy with a tandem bike and I downhill 
ski with a guide and communicating either with a radio headset like the ones 
they make for people who ride motorbikes and want to be able to chat, now of 
course it's even easier as long as the ski hill has cell coverage because we 
can wear a headset and I can just call my guide on the phone.
The point is that I can't do either of these fitness activities independently 
and while I don't disagree that maybe there is room for improvement with 
virtual fitness classes/workouts, it maybe be very possible to participate 
quite effectively if for the first few times you have sighted help who first 
describes to you what exactly you have to do. I have sometimes gone to one of 
these high energy workout classes at a local marshall arts Dojo and while of 
course I had to do some of the stuff with another person, anything that was 
done stationary like lunges, push-ups, sit-ups, squats etc. is easy as long as 
the instructor calls it out and you know how to do the move. However, there 
really is no way to fully describe the move in a fast-paced workout because it 
would take way too long so you have to know this before. Here is just one 
example from a website which describes how to do proper squats and even if you 
disregard the first part where a bit of background is given, just the actual 
seps would take quite long to explain and for a blind person who can't watch 
somebody else perform the move perfectly whether in person or on a video it may 
be even more difficult:

If you ever watch toddlers move, you’ll notice that they execute 
picture-perfect squats time and again. But when you’re well into adulthood, how 
to do squats becomes a little more of a loaded question: Are your feet in the 
right position? Are you getting down far enough? Should you add weight?
While there’s a lot to unpack with how to do a proper squat, the benefits of 
learning how to squat correctly are immense—squat variations not only help you 
get stronger during your workouts, but they also represent a movement pattern 
that you use during everyday life.
“In life, we squat all the time, from playing with our children to going to the 
bathroom to sitting on a chair, ” Noam Tamir, C.S.C.S., founder and CEO of TS 
Fitness in New York City, tells SELF. “It’s very much a functional movement.”
When you learn how to do squats correctly, you can really make the most out of 
the move—and your workout. Here’s what you need to know.

What muscles do squats work, and what are the benefits of squats?
Throughout the move, your core muscles fire in order to keep you steady. “Your 
abdominals are stabilizers,” he says. “So they assist in weight-bearing 
movements.” Strong core muscles are important because not only do they help you 
with your lifts, but they also reduce the risk of lower back pain. If you do a 
weighted squat—whether using a dumbbell in a goblet squat, two dumbbells in a 
front squat, or a barbell in either a back or front squat—you’re also working 
your upper body. That’s because the move requires an isometric holding of 
weight, a static muscle contraction without any movement, Tamir says.
Weighted squats, like other forms of load-bearing physical activity, also 
benefit your bones: They help you build stronger bones, he says, which can help 
prevent osteopenia or osteoporosis as you get older. Plus, since a proper squat 
requires mobility in your hips and ankles, you can also consider squatting a 
mobility exercise that can help you move better, Tamir says.

Everything you need to know about how to do squats
Before you start adding weight, you want to get the squat motion down with 
bodyweight squats first. Form is key, since performing squats properly can cut 
down the risk of injury during the move. Here’s what you need to know about 
doing squats correctly, and how you can avoid some common squatting mistakes.

1. Assume the squat stance.
Before you squat, you should get in proper squat position: Keep your feet about 
shoulder-width apart, Tamir says. There’s no set rule for exact positioning of 
your feet—it’ll vary depending upon anatomical differences—but a good guideline 
is for them to turn out anywhere between 5 and 30 degrees. So rather than 
pointing straight ahead, your feet will turn out slightly, but how much they do 
will depend on your particular comfort level and mobility.

2. Screw your feet into the floor.
Dialing your feet into the ground helps engage your muscles, improve alignment, 
and create stability with the ground, says Tamir. It’ll also help keep your 

Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Kelly Pierce]

Every year, Apple continues to develop a new version of touch ID. The
rumor mill says the company actually created a prototype of the iPhone
13 with touch ID. Somehow, the new touch ID does not meet Apple’s
standards and the team continues to develop the technology. I am not
holding my breath over it.

Podcasts and music drive my quest for more storage. I have 128 GB of
storage and look forward to an iPhone 13 with 512 GB. A trip longer
than two weeks can mean that all music gets listened to once. Old
podcast episodes are retained until the vacation.  The extra storage
means I can listen to my favorite music on the road without having to
turn to Spotify or Pandora and burn cell phone data.  Apple’s biggest
racket is charging $100 for 128 gigs of data, several times over what
the local computer shop charges for a thumb drive of the same storage.
Yet, the extra price is less than what someone would pay in extra data
charges for a streaming service if that service were of no charge to
the consumer.

Kelly



On 9/19/21, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:
> And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb option, for
> me the smallest storage option is more than I need because I don't see any
> sense in, for example, having all my Audible books, well over 900 by now,
> downloaded on my phone. Whenever I want to listen to a book again I just
> find it in my library where I can then either stream it or redownload it in
> about 10 seconds. I currently have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb
> of free space on it, but as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big
> premium for that 1 Tb storage, but if it is what you want then that's great
> and Apple will thank you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of
> Joshua Hendrickson
> Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
> My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
> The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.
> I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
> Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.
>
> On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
>> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that
>> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard
>> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting
>> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the
>> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a
>> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever
>> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller
>> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to
>> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI
>>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch
>>> with it.” – Jane Wagner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On
>>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I
>>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will
>>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related
>>> improvements.
>>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better
>>> battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also
>>> attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful given
>>> that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than the
>>> pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really can
>>> keep things steadily in focus.
>>> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a
>>> number of years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet.
>>> We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working
>>> great and does everything I need.
>>>
>>> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hello Everyone,
>>> >
>>> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>>> >
>>> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do
>>> > not have any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the
>>> > understatement of the
>>> season.
>>> >
>>> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a
>>> > new battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for
>>> > one 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Richard Turner]

IF one needs to keep a huge amount of pictures, music, books, movies, then 
memory is a higher priority.
If one is focused on ease of picture taking, advances in object identification 
and location, then the camera features are a higher priority.

The iPhone 13 with 512 GB is the same price as the 13 pro with 256 GB.
So, pay a premium for extra memory, or pay a premium for extra features.
Apple has you paying a premium for what you want any way you slice it.

Later,



Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." - 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:00 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor 
included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro models. 
Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of what most 
blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for substantially 
less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg point. App developers 
need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a 
smaller percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com>> wrote:
I'm very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and Super 
LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." - 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: 
https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Michael Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look 
forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a better 
phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements. The 10R came 
out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life and a three 
generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera improvements are also 
possibly quite helpful given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones 
rather than the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it 
really can keep things steadily in focus. Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I 
won't have to upgrade again for a number of years.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo 
mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:
I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll see 
what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and does 
everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor 
> mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the season.
>
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more year
> (smile).
>
> Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish the
> idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its name
> (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS 13!!!
> (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
>
> Mark
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> 

Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Arnold Schmidt]

If you wish to adjust it by single digits in settings, double tap and hold, 
then while holding, roll your finger left and right. To borrow a phrase from a 
Brill Cream commercial from years ago, a little dab will do yuh, but if you are 
careful, you can move it by single digits. I use the setting in the rotor for 
speech adjustment, the place I usually use this rolling my finger thing is in 
the volume controll, where pressing the volume buttons causes it to jump too 
far. 

Arnold Schmidt 


Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone S E 2

On Sep 19, 2021, at 1:29 PM, Sieghard Weitzel  wrote:

That is correct, in Voiceover settings you can double tap and hold and then 
drag your finger left or right and if you are doing it carefully enough you can 
adjust it by 1% or 2% increments. But I also find the other way where you make 
sure Speed is on the rotor and use the 5% increments there is more than 
sufficient and much easier.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Anthony 
Vece
Sent: September 19, 2021 9:55 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

Hello Barbara; I found that when you drag your finger very slowly this usually 
works. However, your motor movements need to be very very fine. Hope this 
helps. Anthony

Sent from my Verizon iPhone 12 Pro!!!

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Joshua Hendrickson  wrote:
> 
> Yes, you can indeed move the voice over speaking rate by 5% 
> increments.  Your speaking rate should be in your router.  Once you 
> find speaking rate, you should be able to move by 5% increments.  If 
> you go to speaking rate in voice over settings, then it would go by 
> 10% increments.
> 
>> On 9/19/21, Barbara Stahl  wrote:
>> Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 
>> percent increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I 
>> had VO set at 60 and it read just a bit too fast, but I could only 
>> seem to move the VO speaking rate at ten percent increments and 50 percent 
>> was too slow.
>> 
>> --
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>> iPhone list.
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>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Joshua Hendrickson
> 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> 
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RE: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Then maybe take advantage of your 3 months because you may find it's useful 
after all.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Jenifer 
Barr
Sent: September 19, 2021 6:47 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

Thank you for this thread.
I just activated my three-month free trial. Now I know I won't be renewing. 
lol. Granted... I haven't tried the app yet but... 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2021, at 6:43 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Chela and thank you for the feedback.  
> 
> I don't know why but I just assumed that Apple had come up with some kind of 
> magical way of making this service accessible for blind and low vision 
> subscribers.
> 
> It just goes to show you that no matter how far we have come, there is still 
> so far to go.
> 
> Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of CHELA Robles
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:02 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
> 
> Hey Mark Taylor, it’s very interesting you bring up this topic because I just 
> tried it out not too long ago in fact I think I tried it out on Monday and I 
> quickly gave up because there weren’t any audio descriptions during the video 
> as to how to do certain things that’s why I chose to do the walking workouts 
> since all I had to do was walk even though I really wanted to do the body 
> core workouts those were not really described unfortunately there’s some 
> really good cardio ones but again you run the risk of them not being 
> described as far as the movements go. The walking ones are easier for me 
> since all I have to do is walk or run for a certain amount of minutes. Sorry 
> I can’t be very helpful. I only just recently started using Apple fitness 
> plus whatever it’s called since I already have an Apple one subscription that 
> has four services in one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:00 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> Question:  does anyone use or has anyone used Apple Fitness Plus?  If 
>> so, how was / is your experience?
>> 
>> So much of the content is video-based, at least, that is how it 
>> appears in all of the Apple Keynote Presentations.
>> 
>> I know that they mentioned something about adding more audio-based 
>> content to the service but just wanted to get some feedback here in the 
>> forum.
>> 
>> I look forward to your replies,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> --
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your 

RE: Apple watch question

[Sieghard Weitzel]

It's the watch indicating the time using vibrations. You are probably double 
tapping the watch when this happens whether you do it knowingly or not.
If you want to do this deliverately the watch should be locked, then do a 
double tap without first waking up the watch, it's sometimes a bit inconsistent 
and instead the watch may speak, but if it works then the watch is silent and 
will vibrate. By default a single long vibration is for 10 AM or 10 PM, then 
the consequent short vibrations are for each hour after that, for example, if 
it is 1 PM exactly, the watch would vibrate once long and 3 times short.
After the hour vibrations are done there is a short pause, then the minutes are 
indicated. Each long vibration is for 10 minutes, then again a short vibration 
for every minute.
To stick with the above example, let's assume it is 1:03, you would get the 
long vibration indicating 10 o'clock, then 3 short for 11, 12 and 1. Then there 
is a short pause and you would then get 3 more short vibrations indicating 3 
minutes.
If it was 1:36 you would get the same for hours, then after the pause the watch 
would give 3 more long vibrations for 10, 20 and 30 minutes, then you would get 
6 short voibrations to indicate 1:36.
There is no difference between AM and PM vibrations, it is assumed you know 
whether it's between 10 AM and 10 PM or 10 PM and 10 AM.
You can also change how time is communicated with vibrations, one other option 
is to use actual morse code if you know how to interpret it and there is one 
other option, but I can't remember.
I have always felt it would make more sense to indicate Midnight and Noon with 
a single long vibration and then add short vibrations for 1, 2, 3 and so on, 
but I guess Apple has a different sense of logic.


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Richard 
Turner
Sent: September 19, 2021 8:24 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Apple watch question

Could you say more about when you get those vibrations?  Are they always the 
same?





Richard
“Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
dadnthed...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 3:29 AM
To: viphone 
Subject: Apple watch question

I just got an Apple Watch.  It is an Apple Watch 3.  All working fine, but I 
get a vibration of three short and three long, and sometimes another three 
short, like an
S O S.  Any idea what that might be?  There’s no alert that pops up in relation 
to that.  Thanks for any suggestions.

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RE: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Sieghard Weitzel]

That is correct, in Voiceover settings you can double tap and hold and then 
drag your finger left or right and if you are doing it carefully enough you can 
adjust it by 1% or 2% increments. But I also find the other way where you make 
sure Speed is on the rotor and use the 5% increments there is more than 
sufficient and much easier.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Anthony 
Vece
Sent: September 19, 2021 9:55 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

Hello Barbara; I found that when you drag your finger very slowly this usually 
works. However, your motor movements need to be very very fine. Hope this 
helps. Anthony

Sent from my Verizon iPhone 12 Pro!!!

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Joshua Hendrickson  wrote:
> 
> Yes, you can indeed move the voice over speaking rate by 5% 
> increments.  Your speaking rate should be in your router.  Once you 
> find speaking rate, you should be able to move by 5% increments.  If 
> you go to speaking rate in voice over settings, then it would go by 
> 10% increments.
> 
>> On 9/19/21, Barbara Stahl  wrote:
>> Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 
>> percent increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I 
>> had VO set at 60 and it read just a bit too fast, but I could only 
>> seem to move the VO speaking rate at ten percent increments and 50 percent 
>> was too slow.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V 
>> iPhone list.
>> 
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>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
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>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
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>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Joshua Hendrickson
> 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> 
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You received this 

RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Sieghard Weitzel]

And maybe next year the regular iPhone 14 will come with a 1 Tb option, for me 
the smallest storage option is more than I need because I don't see any sense 
in, for example, having all my Audible books, well over 900 by now, downloaded 
on my phone. Whenever I want to listen to a book again I just find it in my 
library where I can then either stream it or redownload it in about 10 seconds. 
I currently have a 64 Gb iPhone 11 and I have about 30 Gb of free space on it, 
but as I always say, to each their own, you pay a big premium for that 1 Tb 
storage, but if it is what you want then that's great and Apple will thank you.

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Joshua 
Hendrickson
Sent: September 19, 2021 9:49 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal storage.  I'm 
hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as well.

On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that 
> sensor included. There's a large jump in price between the standard 
> and pro models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting 
> the bulk of what most blind people will really benefit from in the 
> standard iPhone for substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a 
> painful chicken and egg point. App developers need to find clever 
> enough uses for Lidar to encourage enough sales on a smaller 
> percentage of blind owners of pro models. I think Apple is going to 
> have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models before things really get going.
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI 
>> and Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch 
>> with it.” – Jane Wagner
>>
>>
>>
>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On 
>> Behalf Of *Michael Feir
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>>
>>
>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I 
>> look forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will 
>> prove a better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related 
>> improvements.
>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better 
>> battery life and a three generation jump in the chip are also 
>> attractive. Camera improvements are also possibly quite helpful given 
>> that automatic stabilization is now on all phones rather than the 
>> pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it really can 
>> keep things steadily in focus.
>> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a 
>> number of years.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>
>> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. 
>> We'll see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working 
>> great and does everything I need.
>>
>> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Everyone,
>> >
>> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>> >
>> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do 
>> > not have any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the 
>> > understatement of the
>> season.
>> >
>> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a 
>> > new battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for 
>> > one more
>> year
>> > (smile).
>> >
>> > Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not 
>> > relish the idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 
>> > being part of its
>> name
>> > (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install 
>> > iOS
>> 13!!!
>> > (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > The following information is important for all members of the V 
>> > iPhone
>> list.
>> >
>> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>> > list, or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> >
>> > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> >
>> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> > 

Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Anthony Vece]

Hello Barbara; I found that when you drag your finger very slowly this usually 
works. However, your motor movements need to be very very fine. Hope this 
helps. Anthony

Sent from my Verizon iPhone 12 Pro!!!

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Joshua Hendrickson  wrote:
> 
> Yes, you can indeed move the voice over speaking rate by 5%
> increments.  Your speaking rate should be in your router.  Once you
> find speaking rate, you should be able to move by 5% increments.  If
> you go to speaking rate in voice over settings, then it would go by
> 10% increments.
> 
>> On 9/19/21, Barbara Stahl  wrote:
>> Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 percent
>> increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I had VO set at 60
>> and it read just a bit too fast, but I could only seem to move the VO
>> speaking rate at ten percent increments and 50 percent was too slow.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
>> list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/3470B81B-4967-4C7A-9571-616F13EBD6F7%40gmail.com.
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> 
> Joshua Hendrickson
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Joshua Hendrickson]

My next phone which will be the 14 next year, will be the pro model.
The pro model of the 13 is already up to 1 terabyte of internal
storage.  I'm hoping the 14 will have both touch ID and face ID.
Having a much better chip then in the iPhone 8 will be very nice as
well.

On 9/19/21, Michael Feir  wrote:
> The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor
> included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro
> models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of
> what most blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for
> substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg
> point. App developers need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to
> encourage enough sales on a smaller percentage of blind owners of pro
> models. I think Apple is going to have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models
> before things really get going.
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner
> 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and
>> Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with
>> it.” – Jane Wagner
>>
>>
>>
>> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
>> *Michael Feir
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
>> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>>
>>
>>
>> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look
>> forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a
>> better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements.
>> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery
>> life
>> and a three generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera
>> improvements are also possibly quite helpful given that automatic
>> stabilization is now on all phones rather than the pros. For blind
>> people,
>> this could be quite helpful if it really can keep things steadily in
>> focus.
>> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a
>> number
>> of years.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>>
>> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll
>> see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and
>> does everything I need.
>>
>> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Everyone,
>> >
>> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>> >
>> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not
>> > have
>> > any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the
>> season.
>> >
>> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
>> > battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more
>> year
>> > (smile).
>> >
>> > Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish
>> > the
>> > idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its
>> name
>> > (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS
>> 13!!!
>> > (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
>> list.
>> >
>> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>> > or
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> >
>> > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> >
>> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> 
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/01d7aac1%2423469fc0%2469d3df40%24%40edu
>> 

Re: Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Joshua Hendrickson]

Yes, you can indeed move the voice over speaking rate by 5%
increments.  Your speaking rate should be in your router.  Once you
find speaking rate, you should be able to move by 5% increments.  If
you go to speaking rate in voice over settings, then it would go by
10% increments.

On 9/19/21, Barbara Stahl  wrote:
> Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 percent
> increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I had VO set at 60
> and it read just a bit too fast, but I could only seem to move the VO
> speaking rate at ten percent increments and 50 percent was too slow.
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/3470B81B-4967-4C7A-9571-616F13EBD6F7%40gmail.com.
>


-- 
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson

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Changing the Voiceover speaking rate.

[Barbara Stahl]

Is there a way to get the voiceover speaking rate to move in 5 percent 
increments instead of ten? I was using my kindle app and I had VO set at 60 and 
it read just a bit too fast, but I could only seem to move the VO speaking rate 
at ten percent increments and 50 percent was too slow.  

-- 
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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Michael Feir]

The thing about Lidar is you need to buy a Pro model to have that sensor
included. There's a large jump in price between the standard and pro
models. Unless you're really into photography, you're getting the bulk of
what most blind people will really benefit from in the standard iPhone for
substantially less money. This puts Lidar at a painful chicken and egg
point. App developers need to find clever enough uses for Lidar to
encourage enough sales on a smaller percentage of blind owners of pro
models. I think Apple is going to have to bring Lidar to all iPhone models
before things really get going.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:23 AM Richard Turner 
wrote:

> I’m very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and
> Super LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard
>
> “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with
> it.” – Jane Wagner
>
>
>
> My Web site: https://www.turner42.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf Of
> *Michael Feir
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective
>
>
>
> I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look
> forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a
> better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements.
> The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life
> and a three generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera
> improvements are also possibly quite helpful given that automatic
> stabilization is now on all phones rather than the pros. For blind people,
> this could be quite helpful if it really can keep things steadily in focus.
> Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a number
> of years.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>
> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll
> see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and
> does everything I need.
>
> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
> >
> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not have
> > any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the
> season.
> >
> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> > battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more
> year
> > (smile).
> >
> > Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish the
> > idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its
> name
> > (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS
> 13!!!
> > (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > --
> > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
> >
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> >
> > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> >
> > The archives for this list can be searched at:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> 
> > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "VIPhone" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/viphone/01d7aac1%2423469fc0%2469d3df40%24%40edu
> 
> .
>
> --
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> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 

RE: Apple watch question

[Christopher Chaltain]

I suspect your getting the time with the taptic time feature. The watch will 
vibrate the number of hours followed by the number of minutes. There's more 
information at Tell time with haptic feedback on Apple Watch - Apple 
Support

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
dadnthed...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 5:29 AM
To: viphone 
Subject: Apple watch question

I just got an Apple Watch.  It is an Apple Watch 3.  All working fine, but I 
get a vibration of three short and three long, and sometimes another three 
short, like an
S O S.  Any idea what that might be?  There's no alert that pops up in relation 
to that.  Thanks for any suggestions.

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RE: Apple watch question

[Richard Turner]

Could you say more about when you get those vibrations?  Are they always the 
same?




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." - 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
dadnthed...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 3:29 AM
To: viphone 
Subject: Apple watch question

I just got an Apple Watch.  It is an Apple Watch 3.  All working fine, but I 
get a vibration of three short and three long, and sometimes another three 
short, like an
S O S.  Any idea what that might be?  There's no alert that pops up in relation 
to that.  Thanks for any suggestions.

--
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moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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mk...@ucla.edu. Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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RE: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Richard Turner]

I'm very interested to see what LIDAR will do for us, with Seeing AI and Super 
LIDAR which is from the makers of SuperSense.




Richard
"Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it." - 
Jane Wagner

My Web site: https://www.turner42.com


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Michael 
Feir
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look 
forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a better 
phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements. The 10R came 
out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life and a three 
generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera improvements are also 
possibly quite helpful given that automatic stabilization is now on all phones 
rather than the pros. For blind people, this could be quite helpful if it 
really can keep things steadily in focus. Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I 
won't have to upgrade again for a number of years.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo 
mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:
I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll see 
what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and does 
everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor 
> mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
>
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the season.
>
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more year
> (smile).
>
> Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish the
> idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its name
> (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS 13!!!
> (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
>
> Mark
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to 
> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:

Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[Devin Prater]

Yeah, good luck. Apple Arcade has no games that were made with accessibility in 
mind. So there is precedent for them ignoring a bit of accessibility. Luckily, 
Eyes-free Fitness is floating around somewhere, so that resource can still be 
used. Sure, without the Apple Watch metric, but still, it’s available.
Devin Prater
r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com

Https://devinprater.flounder.online

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 9:15 AM, CHELA Robles  wrote:
> 
> Well I think someone should start a petition on change.org regarding this 
> because Apple has to take into consideration that the disability community 
> wants to take part in being fit and staying fit not just walking in my 
> opinion and having the added audio descriptions like they’ve had with their 
> last Apple event and all their original shows and movies, it’s a very much 
> needed added benefit and right for us. I wonder why they decided to add audio 
> descriptions for everything else but the fitness app. That just doesn’t sound 
> right to me. I’m going to do all I can to make it known to Apple that this 
> needs to be done.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Jenifer Barr  wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you for this thread.
>> I just activated my three-month free trial. Now I know I won't be renewing. 
>> lol. Granted... I haven't tried the app yet but... 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2021, at 6:43 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Chela and thank you for the feedback.  
>>> 
>>> I don't know why but I just assumed that Apple had come up with some kind 
>>> of magical way of making this service accessible for blind and low vision 
>>> subscribers.
>>> 
>>> It just goes to show you that no matter how far we have come, there is 
>>> still so far to go.
>>> 
>>> Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>>> Of CHELA Robles
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:02 PM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
>>> 
>>> Hey Mark Taylor, it’s very interesting you bring up this topic because I 
>>> just tried it out not too long ago in fact I think I tried it out on Monday 
>>> and I quickly gave up because there weren’t any audio descriptions during 
>>> the video as to how to do certain things that’s why I chose to do the 
>>> walking workouts since all I had to do was walk even though I really wanted 
>>> to do the body core workouts those were not really described unfortunately 
>>> there’s some really good cardio ones but again you run the risk of them not 
>>> being described as far as the movements go. The walking ones are easier for 
>>> me since all I have to do is walk or run for a certain amount of minutes. 
>>> Sorry I can’t be very helpful. I only just recently started using Apple 
>>> fitness plus whatever it’s called since I already have an Apple one 
>>> subscription that has four services in one.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:00 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 Question:  does anyone use or has anyone used Apple Fitness Plus?  If 
 so, how was / is your experience?
 
 So much of the content is video-based, at least, that is how it 
 appears in all of the Apple Keynote Presentations.
 
 I know that they mentioned something about adding more audio-based 
 content to the service but just wanted to get some feedback here in the 
 forum.
 
 I look forward to your replies,
 
 Mark
 
 
 --
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 list.
 
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 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
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 mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
 caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
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>>> 
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>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
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>>> 
>>> 

Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[CHELA Robles]

Well I think someone should start a petition on change.org regarding this 
because Apple has to take into consideration that the disability community 
wants to take part in being fit and staying fit not just walking in my opinion 
and having the added audio descriptions like they’ve had with their last Apple 
event and all their original shows and movies, it’s a very much needed added 
benefit and right for us. I wonder why they decided to add audio descriptions 
for everything else but the fitness app. That just doesn’t sound right to me. 
I’m going to do all I can to make it known to Apple that this needs to be done.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2021, at 6:47 AM, Jenifer Barr  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for this thread.
> I just activated my three-month free trial. Now I know I won't be renewing. 
> lol. Granted... I haven't tried the app yet but... 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 18, 2021, at 6:43 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Chela and thank you for the feedback.  
>> 
>> I don't know why but I just assumed that Apple had come up with some kind of 
>> magical way of making this service accessible for blind and low vision 
>> subscribers.
>> 
>> It just goes to show you that no matter how far we have come, there is still 
>> so far to go.
>> 
>> Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of CHELA Robles
>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:02 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
>> 
>> Hey Mark Taylor, it’s very interesting you bring up this topic because I 
>> just tried it out not too long ago in fact I think I tried it out on Monday 
>> and I quickly gave up because there weren’t any audio descriptions during 
>> the video as to how to do certain things that’s why I chose to do the 
>> walking workouts since all I had to do was walk even though I really wanted 
>> to do the body core workouts those were not really described unfortunately 
>> there’s some really good cardio ones but again you run the risk of them not 
>> being described as far as the movements go. The walking ones are easier for 
>> me since all I have to do is walk or run for a certain amount of minutes. 
>> Sorry I can’t be very helpful. I only just recently started using Apple 
>> fitness plus whatever it’s called since I already have an Apple one 
>> subscription that has four services in one.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:00 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Question:  does anyone use or has anyone used Apple Fitness Plus?  If 
>>> so, how was / is your experience?
>>> 
>>> So much of the content is video-based, at least, that is how it 
>>> appears in all of the Apple Keynote Presentations.
>>> 
>>> I know that they mentioned something about adding more audio-based 
>>> content to the service but just wanted to get some feedback here in the 
>>> forum.
>>> 
>>> I look forward to your replies,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>>> ---
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>> 
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users

[Jenifer Barr]

Thank you for this thread.
I just activated my three-month free trial. Now I know I won't be renewing. 
lol. Granted... I haven't tried the app yet but... 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2021, at 6:43 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Chela and thank you for the feedback.  
> 
> I don't know why but I just assumed that Apple had come up with some kind of 
> magical way of making this service accessible for blind and low vision 
> subscribers.
> 
> It just goes to show you that no matter how far we have come, there is still 
> so far to go.
> 
> Again, thank you for sharing your experience.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> CHELA Robles
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:02 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A Question About Apple Fitness Plus for VoiceOver Users
> 
> Hey Mark Taylor, it’s very interesting you bring up this topic because I just 
> tried it out not too long ago in fact I think I tried it out on Monday and I 
> quickly gave up because there weren’t any audio descriptions during the video 
> as to how to do certain things that’s why I chose to do the walking workouts 
> since all I had to do was walk even though I really wanted to do the body 
> core workouts those were not really described unfortunately there’s some 
> really good cardio ones but again you run the risk of them not being 
> described as far as the movements go. The walking ones are easier for me 
> since all I have to do is walk or run for a certain amount of minutes. Sorry 
> I can’t be very helpful. I only just recently started using Apple fitness 
> plus whatever it’s called since I already have an Apple one subscription that 
> has four services in one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2021, at 5:00 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> Question:  does anyone use or has anyone used Apple Fitness Plus?  If 
>> so, how was / is your experience?
>> 
>> So much of the content is video-based, at least, that is how it 
>> appears in all of the Apple Keynote Presentations.
>> 
>> I know that they mentioned something about adding more audio-based 
>> content to the service but just wanted to get some feedback here in the 
>> forum.
>> 
>> I look forward to your replies,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Michael Feir]

I currently use a 10R and decided to upgrade to a 13 with 512 gb. I look
forward to the extra storage. However, I also think the 13 will prove a
better phone to make use of artificial intelligence related improvements.
The 10R came out when that was just finding its stride. Better battery life
and a three generation jump in the chip are also attractive. Camera
improvements are also possibly quite helpful given that automatic
stabilization is now on all phones rather than the pros. For blind people,
this could be quite helpful if it really can keep things steadily in focus.
Guess I'll find out. I'm hoping I won't have to upgrade again for a number
of years.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 8:32 AM Mike Arrigo  wrote:

> I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll
> see what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and
> does everything I need.
>
> > On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
> >
> > To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not have
> > any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the
> season.
> >
> > So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> > battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more
> year
> > (smile).
> >
> > Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish the
> > idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its
> name
> > (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS
> 13!!!
> > (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin).
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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-- 
Michael Feir
Author of Personal Power; The iOS Edition
http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2020/04/personal-power-ios-edition.html?m=1
Twitter: mfeir
Skype: michael-feir
Check out my blog at:
http://www.michaelfeir.blogspot.ca

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Re: Mark on iPhone 13 from an iPhone 8 Perspective

[Mike Arrigo]

I'm using an iphone 10r here and have no interest in upgrading yet. We'll see 
what happens next year but my iphone 10r is still working great and does 
everything I need.

> On Sep 16, 2021, at 1:07 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I've enjoyed reading all of the comments on iPhone 13.
> 
> To say that I was disappointed that this year's iPhone models do not have
> any kind of fingerprint reader, would be the understatement of the season.
> 
> So, as for me, I have updated my beloved 8 Plus to iOS 14.8, had a new
> battery installed earlier, today, and intend to hold out for one more year
> (smile).
> 
> Besides, not that I am superstitious or anything but I do not relish the
> idea of using any kind of device with the number 13 being part of its name
> (smile).  It took all of my courage, back in the day, to install iOS 13!!!
> (big Smile).  Again, not superstitious, just careful (grin). 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor.  Mark can be reached at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu.  Your list owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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test

[dadnthedark]

 

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Apple watch question

[dadnthedark]

I just got an Apple Watch.  It is an Apple Watch 3.  All working fine, but I
get a vibration of three short and three long, and sometimes another three
short, like an 

S O S.  Any idea what that might be?  There's no alert that pops up in
relation to that.  Thanks for any suggestions.

 

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