Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
The Rossi reaction in a nutshell… The mechanism of entanglement is different in the cold plasma based Rossi reaction as compared to the standard commonly used water based cold fusion applications like that used by the Thermacore experiment. In more detail, potassium carbonate K2CO3, the Mills catalyst, when heated by the primary heater in the Rossi reaction chamber produces potassium ions as these ions boil off the carbonate lattice. As these highly excited ions move away from the filament of the primary heater, they cool and condense into Rydberg atoms. These potassium Rydberg atoms catalyze the formation of hydrogen based Rydberg atoms through the quantum mechanical blockade process. This catalytic interaction between potassium atoms and hydrogen atoms produces a dense population of hydrogen Rydberg atoms through entanglement exchange in the dense hydrogen envelope. These hydrogen Rydberg atoms are then ionized by patch electrostatic forces by the tubercles on the surface of the nickel micro-particles. These protons so produced now become paired and entangled in growing numbers by the micro-cavity properties of these same tubercles. Some proton pair members of this expanding Boss-Einstein condensate ensemble population then tunnel into the nickel nuclei of the micro-particles. This condensate also thermalizes the gamma reaction energy via quantum mechanical decoherence of the nuclear active entangled proton condensate members. Quantum mechanical decoherence precipitates gamma thermalization via reaction energy generation. Getting back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap opera. Best regards: Axil On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Anyone care to get back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap opera? KHCO3 or Potassium bicarbonate is used as a sodium-free substitute for Baking soda in cooking, but don't let that the lack of toxicity fool you into thinking that it cannot also be a good catalyst for Ni-H. F. Fillaux, et al - in the paper mentioned recently - Macroscopic quantum entanglement and 'super-rigidity' of protons in the KHCO3 crystal from 30 to 300 K raises tantalizing issues relative to the Thermacore experiment and Ni-H, in general. The two best parts about this molecule is that potassium carbonate, which can be derived from the bicarbonate - is proven to be catalytic in dozens of experiments. The bicarbonate it is cheap - but mostly an potential advantage is because it is also a ready source of hydrogen. That feature could simplify some kinds of devices where using pressurized hydrogen from a tank is impractical. Decomposition of KHCO3 occurs between 100 °C and 120 °C into K2CO3 (potassium carbonate, the Mills catalyst) H2O and CO2. Adding electrical stimulation, or extra potassium can split the water and provide hydrogen. There is also an indication from a few long time BLP followers that the transition state from CO to CO2 acts as a catalyst. More on that later. Tasty... Jones
[Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
The story starts here SunCube Fiasco http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=102146 Short version. Greg Watson started a company Green and Gold Energy. Claimed to have a wonderful new Solar widget SUNCUBE which was 6 times better than old fashioned flatties Published a firm price and specification, ready real soon, place intent to purchase NOW! Thousands of folks believed it and placed their orders. Greg then sold licenses to manufacture all over the world for millions of dollars. SunCube never came on the market, NOT because it was suppressed but because it was a fake. Any critics (like me) were threatened with lawsuits, insulted and derided. SunCube factory is closed. GGE is all but gone which is why I am going after him personally for bankruptcy. Can I prove 100% that Aussie Guy is Greg Watson? Well of course not, I couldn't prove 100% that the SunCube was a fake. I couldn't prove 100% that the SunCube was a fake (hence the defamation case) I can't prove 100% that Watson does not have fairies at the bottom of his garden. I can't prove 100% that Rossi is running a scam. If Aussie Guy is NOT Greg Watson, you'd think he would be saying so right now VERY LOUDLY! Come on Aussi Guy.. YOUR TURN NOW!
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
How sad Aussie Guy. I really feel bad for you. Regards to the dog! (don't forget to respond to that bankruptcy notice, no more first class flights around the world if you don't have a passport) From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com Steven, Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach with my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our chairman who lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get my head together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my LENR plans as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news is I still have a job. AG On 20/01/2012 3:10 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Chill out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped
Jed wrote: No such stage magic tricks exist, or can exist. It is physically impossible. Look, we've had this discussion before, haven't we? It is not only possible, it is easy. Compared to fusing Nickel with Hydrogen its less than child's play. You don't even need a PCM for that - but even if you you used one it would be just standard technology. All you have is Rossi's word and all your unnamed sources (which you trust) have, is Rossi's word. The word of a man you think doesn't have any credibility. I see the point that one would have to judge the claims independently from the man - but as long as the claims haven't been verified independently, you just can't. I don't know what you mean saying It has been done repeatedly thousands of miles from him Defkalion and the guy you know and trust who has seen it but doesn't really have more than the word of somebody who still DOES have some credibility - at least when given the benefit of doubt? I'm tempted to invite you to our lab. They're developing a light PCM solution which we'll integrate into the coolant cycles of our smaller diesel engines in order to help them getting up to operation temperatures on a cold start - replacing the voluminous thermos bottle kind of arrangement we've been using before. When you hear the numbers you'll probably be totally convinced that it must be LENR. Not sure I can find somebody there who's so un-credible as to claim that though. What they WILL tell you, however, is that the coolant reaches up to 107 C under load. Mind you, it never converts to steam but if you used Rossi's math you could easily prove that our diesel engines produce more energy than they consume - a lot more - overunity. Maybe I should invite Sterling Allan instead.
[Vo]:lanr.org
Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement somewhere, I guess in a comments section of a blog, of another startup (nordic, I believe), at lanr.org. If I look at that website now, it says: = *LANR* Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy Nuclear Reactions New site is in development and will be published by the end of january. This site is intended to become a discussion forum for people interested in and engaged in LANR projects. = Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more ambitious than becoming a discussion forum? Andre
Re: [Vo]:lanr.org
There is also lanr.com, which may or may not be related but I assume it is related as they too say they will be live at the end of January. They're talking about producing and selling reactor cores. -- LANR Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions New site is in development and will be published by the end of january. We are currently in the initial phase of development. We intend to start production on multiple types of reactor cores by the end of 2012. The reactors will be cheap and may be available to everybody depending on permit requirements. It is optimistic, but the technology is fairly straightforward based on our understanding. On 20/01/12 13:17, Andre Blum wrote: Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement somewhere, I guess in a comments section of a blog, of another startup (nordic, I believe), at lanr.org. If I look at that website now, it says: = LANR Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy Nuclear Reactions New site is in development and will be published by the end of january. This site is intended to become a discussion forum for people interested in and engaged in LANR projects. = Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more ambitious than becoming a discussion forum? Andre
[Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings now in bite-sized chunks
Francesca broke the proceedings book into smaller chunks, here: http://iccf15.frascati.enea.it/docs/proceedings.html - Jed
Re: [Vo]:lanr.org
EL, Ah, right.. thanks. That was much more in line with what I remembered. They just reacted on ecatnews.com: We are in a very early stage don't get too optimistic. Please don't bother the domain owner, we will publish proper contact info on the site when we make progress with our experiments. Not much to be expected soon, then. Andre On 01/20/2012 09:57 AM, Energy Liberator wrote: There is also lanr.com, which may or may not be related but I assume it is related as they too say they will be live at the end of January. They're talking about producing and selling reactor cores. -- *LANR* Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions New site is in development and will be published by the end of january. We are currently in the initial phase of development. We intend to start production on multiple types of reactor cores by the end of 2012. The reactors will be cheap and may be available to everybody depending on permit requirements. It is optimistic, but the technology is fairly straightforward based on our understanding. On 20/01/12 13:17, Andre Blum wrote: Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement somewhere, I guess in a comments section of a blog, of another startup (nordic, I believe), at lanr.org. If I look at that website now, it says: = *LANR* Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy Nuclear Reactions New site is in development and will be published by the end of january. This site is intended to become a discussion forum for people interested in and engaged in LANR projects. = Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more ambitious than becoming a discussion forum? Andre
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Well, Keef - judging from the prior postings here in support of AG (they know who they are) you may have saved several Rossi fanboys a wad of ca$h that would have gone into the stock of whatever new investment vehicle Greg comes up with. GOW has apparently learned from experience that selling stock in worthless companies is much lower risk than selling products you can't deliver. Capitalism protects the pump and dumper pretty well - but not the guy who takes deposits and does not ship product. Even if Rossi has a hint of a valid technology, a very good scam can be built on selling manufacturing licenses. According to what you say, this is the mostly likely way that Greg was pointing, and he had already built a pretty good base of support for the next PD here on vortex, thanks to being able to hide behind a false identity. Anyone who was not suspicious of AG from his early posting is way too gullible - not to get fleeced sometime in the future - many red flags there. That is NOT the way real businessmen work - ironically, they are way more discreet. This is not to say that in Greece, DGT is presently pulling off that same kind of scam, based on inside connections to AR's scam - even though their ploy does seem to be to sell manufacturing licenses at absurd up-front fees .. but given that Green and Gold seems to be a classic example of pump and dump - it is a fair bet that something like this was already in the planning stages in Oz, based on Greg claiming to have this special direct line (horse's mouth in his words) connection to AR. In the final analysis, it looks like Greg chose the wrong end of the horse's anatomy to best describes his inside connections :-) Jones From: Eff Wivakeef The story starts here SunCube Fiasco http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=102146 Short version. Greg Watson started a company Green and Gold Energy. Claimed to have a wonderful new Solar widget SUNCUBE which was 6 times better than old fashioned flatties Published a firm price and specification, ready real soon, place intent to purchase NOW! Thousands of folks believed it and placed their orders. Greg then sold licenses to manufacture all over the world for millions of dollars. SunCube never came on the market, NOT because it was suppressed but because it was a fake. Any critics (like me) were threatened with lawsuits, insulted and derided. SunCube factory is closed. GGE is all but gone which is why I am going after him personally for bankruptcy. Can I prove 100% that Aussie Guy is Greg Watson? Well of course not, I couldn't prove 100% that the SunCube was a fake. I couldn't prove 100% that the SunCube was a fake (hence the defamation case) I can't prove 100% that Watson does not have fairies at the bottom of his garden. I can't prove 100% that Rossi is running a scam. If Aussie Guy is NOT Greg Watson, you'd think he would be saying so right now VERY LOUDLY! Come on Aussi Guy.. YOUR TURN NOW!
Re: [Vo]:lanr.org
From Andre: ... They just reacted on ecatnews.com: We are in a very early stage don’t get too optimistic. Please don’t bother the domain owner, we will publish proper contact info on the site when we make progress with our experiments. Not much to be expected soon, then. Indeed. Don't call us. We'll call you. I guess I could find some encouragement in the fact that situations like the above web site are beginning to announce their presence to an apathetic world. However, the website could just as easily be another setup under the direction of a team of opportunistic scammers preparing to take advantage of the desperate looking for ways to cut down on their energy bills. There certainly seems to have been plenty of scammery on-to-loose lately, such as the true identity of Aussie being brought into question. As long as Aussie refuses to divulge his true identity he remains powerless to affect recent claims attributing his identity to the name of Greg Watson. Under the circumstances I would suggest that Aussi either come clean... or start looking into another line of work. And so, in the meantime, we wait for lanr.org lanr.com to come clean with us... or not. Let us hope we possess the wisdom to know the difference. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
The Ballad of Greg Watson (updated) Come and listen to a story Bout a man named Greg A poor old aging scammer Barely kept his fambly fed And then one day he was looking at his roof Said I'll dream me up a sunball And I'll say that it's the troof Well the sunball turned to suncube And to mark two three four five And the money kept on flowing It felt good to be alive But those customers kept asking When those suncubes they'd be getting And they started asking questions Bout the things Greg kept forgettin LikeProof Greg Simple proof Taint hard Well now Greg he chucked a wobbly And he said you won't be gettin Not a single bloody suncube Cos it's secret...I'm not tellin But youse can all still buy a share In my solar funny farm And I'm keepin all the money So there's no cause for alarm Gold Green and Gold YEE HA! Well Greg he's building factries In Indya and Korea But Keef he said Hey Greg..just cut the crap And get on out of here Your proposals are preposterous Your aim is very clear So take your stupid Suncubes And insert them in your rear! Well the sunCube Saga ended and ole Greg was feeling bored But then he found a brand new scam (Oh thank you, thank you Lord) He found that that cold fusion was the brand new place to be So he packed his first class baggage and he flew to Italy Well he met that Andy Rossi and he was quite overawed he was oily slick and greasy and like Greg was almost bald thinks might have gone quite nicely but that bastard Keef stepped in and he shouted loudly BULLSHIT much to Greg and And's chagrin Come on Aussie Guy.you don't want us to think that you might really be Greg Watson do you?
Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped
Jed wrote: ...tell me the number right here... I AM SORRY BUT THAT NUMBER IIS CONFIDENTIAL. ALL THOSE SNAKES AND CLOWNS OUT THERE. COMPETIITION YOU KNOW. BUT I CAN SHOW YOU THE PCM IN A LARGE HEAVY METAL BOX ON A TABLE AND PUMP WATER THROUGH IT TO MAKE SOME STEAM IN A RUBBER HOSE AND THEN WE CAN CALCULATE THE MEGAJOULES FROM THERE - AND THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE ME. DEAL? Sorry - couldn't resist. Jed, we've been there before. 10,000 cm3 of iron at 1,500 C would easily hold enough energy to heat over 100 liters of water to the boiling point and even vaporize some of it. Some isolation and you've got yourself a monster e-cat. If you prefer a simpler solution, some dry SiO2 would do it, too. Or maybe he used a combination of the two or something completely different (though I guess it's purely thermal storage and that's why he came up with the pre-heating procedure of something probably already pre-heated when the demo starts) - but the point is: it wouldn't even have to be exotic or especially clever. Heck - it may even be nothing like that and all he really does is hiding cables or faking sensors or some such thing. I know you believe such a simple setup is physically impossible - what I don't get is why you believe at the same time that an Italian philosopher has done what people like McKubre can't even dream of. Just going with probabilities here - and I know what I find more likely. And for the record - the PCMs we use are, afaik, nothing special. Last I heard they're experimenting with a chemical company from France, trying to make salt hydrates stable enough for a couple thousand cycles and -60 C. I have no idea what the exact specifications are - probably something like 200j/g or so. Despite that, you're welcome to visiting us of course - if and when you come to Bavaria next time. The plant tour is well renowned for being interesting and worthwhile.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Heh! I think you may need profession assistance with your obsession with Greg. :) Craig On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 07:59 -0800, Eff Wivakeef wrote: The Ballad of Greg Watson (updated) Come and listen to a story Bout a man named Greg A poor old aging scammer Barely kept his fambly fed And then one day he was looking at his roof Said I'll dream me up a sunball And I'll say that it's the troof Well the sunball turned to suncube And to mark two three four five And the money kept on flowing It felt good to be alive But those customers kept asking When those suncubes they'd be getting And they started asking questions Bout the things Greg kept forgettin LikeProof Greg Simple proof Taint hard Well now Greg he chucked a wobbly And he said you won't be gettin Not a single bloody suncube Cos it's secret...I'm not tellin But youse can all still buy a share In my solar funny farm And I'm keepin all the money So there's no cause for alarm Gold Green and Gold YEE HA! Well Greg he's building factries In Indya and Korea But Keef he said Hey Greg..just cut the crap And get on out of here Your proposals are preposterous Your aim is very clear So take your stupid Suncubes And insert them in your rear! Well the sunCube Saga ended and ole Greg was feeling bored But then he found a brand new scam (Oh thank you, thank you Lord) He found that that cold fusion was the brand new place to be So he packed his first class baggage and he flew to Italy Well he met that Andy Rossi and he was quite overawed he was oily slick and greasy and like Greg was almost bald thinks might have gone quite nicely but that bastard Keef stepped in and he shouted loudly BULLSHIT much to Greg and And's chagrin Come on Aussie Guy.you don't want us to think that you might really be Greg Watson do you?
[Vo]:Story of DoD and TE devices of leonardo corporation
someone have cited this dcument from us army corp of engineer http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada432046 it talsk about the experiments with Rossi'es TE devices. it is interesting because they don't talk about total fraud, but what look like optimism and amateurism... LTI was incorporated as a response to the thermoelectric power generation research by Dr. Andre Rossi. Dr. Rossi indicated that his devices would produce 20 percent efficiencies, a vast increase from the current science of 4 percent conversion of waste heat to electrical power. Dr. Rossi believed that he could increase the physical size of the TE Devices and maintain superior power generation. In furtherance of his research, in early 2000, LTI had tests conducted at the University of New Hampshire (UNH), Durham, NH, using a small scale LTI TE Device. Over a period of 7 days, the UNH power plant staff recorded voltage and amperage readings every 1/2 hr. *The TE Device produced approximately 100 volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power. * After this initial success, and a fire that destroyed his Manchester, NH location, Dr. Rossi returned to Italy to continue the manufacture of the TE Devices. In Italy, Dr. Rossi believed that LTI could manufacture more cost-effective TE generating devices with lower labor and assembly costs. Accordingly, Dr. Rossi engaged a subcontractor to fulfill the requirements of manufacturing and assembly. Unfortunately, the Italian subcontractor was unable to provide secondgeneration TE Devices with satisfactory power generation. Nineteen of 27 TE *Devices shipped to CTC, Johnstown, PA, were incapable of generating electricity for a variety of reasons, from mechanical failure to poor workmanship.*The remaining eight produced less than 1 watt of power each, significantly less than the expected 800–1000 watts each. Appendix C documents TE Device testing. In an effort to determine, and possibly correct the reasons for TE Device failures, LTI personnel traveled to the Italian laboratory. *The common theme that began to emerge was the inability to upgrade from small-scale TE modules to largescale multiple module TE Devices with large footprints*.* The most fundamental reason for the LTI second-generation TE Devices’ failure was the complex thermal expansion interplay among the various components*. Contributing to the TE Device failure *were the large number of soldered electrical connections (over 80)*, *the inability to match the thermal expansion rates of the mono-block cooling tanks* to the circuit boards and to the semiconductor materials, all within the clamp pressure or the retaining hardware in the grip of high temperature adhesives. After a month of research and observation at the Italian laboratory, it was determined that the best way to proceed would be to develop an independent laboratory in New Hampshire so that two development facilities could work at the problems from two separate locations and viewpoints. During this period of time, the Italian laboratory continued to deliver TE materials, but none that exceed the current science of TE power generation. some lessons learn are interesting to undestand today's situation • Many TE Devices were damaged during overseas shipping because they were transported using only light cardboard boxes with minimal bubble wrap protection. The LTI subcontractors were immediately notified of this problem, and this issue will be addressed in the future. • “Overnight” deliveries to Italy typically require a week or more to reach their destination due to customs. • Communication to the Italian subcontractor was difficult at best. E-mail communications were slow and language misunderstandings caused delays throughout the initial project efforts while troubleshooting the malfunctioning of the TE Devices. All possible efforts should be made to work with companies familiar with engineering and business practices of the United States. • Testing TE Devices and wafer materials is a science of its own. Measuring the internal resistance of a TE Device or a single wafer pair proved challenging. (The multimeter applied a current through the TE materials, inducing the Peltier effect, which caused errors in measurements.) (by the way if some one can explain, shortly and honestly what happens with AG... look like bipolar crisis. about Rossi, he does not seems more strange that usual and the only serious concern about what he have said or lied, is about the 12 big-ecat that seems to be irrational, except if they are from various clients, or just an option if all is ok and it works like a breeze... all the rest, like DGT silence, or politician lying, is expected )
RE: [Vo]:Story of DoD and TE devices of leonardo corporation
From: Alain Sepeda someone has cited this document from us army corp. of engineer http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada432046 it talks about the experiments with Rossi's TE devices. it is interesting because they don't talk about total fraud, but what look like optimism and amateurism... No, they don't talk about fraud, but how could they - without direct evidence? Suspicions are not enough. Importantly, they do not even mention the two fires at Rossi's lab that destroyed any evidence of possible fraud. Convenient, no? attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Story of DoD and TE devices of leonardo corporation
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: someone have cited this dcument from us army corp of engineer http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada432046 it talsk about the experiments with Rossi'es TE devices. it is interesting because they don't talk about total fraud, but what look like optimism and amateurism... The problem with Rossi's version of this story is, as near as I can find out, that nobody credible ever saw, documented or wrote up for publication the exact test they did on the initial batch of highly efficient, 100 W devices. This is exactly analogous to the experiment done by Levi in February on an E-cat. As everyone probably recalls, that experiment was the *only* Rossi demo properly designed to measure enthalpy with a straightforward and accurate method by obtaining the flow rate of coolant and the delta T across the device, using an entirely liquid coolant. The problem with the experiment is that Levi wouldn't provide Krivit or anyone else with documentation and equivocated about quality of the data when asked why in an interview. That's OK but what's not OK is that Levi and Rossi never repeated the experiment with proper blanks, calibration and controls even though it would be simple, cheap and safe for Rossi's intellectual property to do so. They've now had almost a year to do it. Rossi gave a typical tangential and nonresponsive answer about this on his blog when he was asked -- something completely absurd about how he would prove the device through sales and not tests. Well, in the last year, he hasn't done that either. Back to the TE devices. It defied imagination to suppose that Rossi could have made a sample batch by hand which tested at 100 W for an efficiency of 20% and then could not provide DOD with samples which tested better than 1 W or so with the same thermal input. If his factory had been destroyed by fire, if his subcontractor could not provide the devices, Rossi could have proved them real by making a few more by hand and submitting them for proper independent testing. It is also unlikely that the university or Rossi did not retain one of the original devices. Rossi never provided any more valid high efficiency tests -- a parallel with not submitting the original E-cat for such testing. I think Rossi never provided 100 W devices to anyone. I suspect it was only a claim or if the test actually happened, it was another Rossi-engineered mis-measurement.If such claimed devices were in fact tested at a university, where are the data? Who has the original devices? And most important, how were they tested? Is it a credible method? And why can't those devices be found, retested and replicated or reverse engineered? The best answer is that it was indeed a scam and a deliberate one from the start. And DOD, as it often does, looked at the voluminous and highly fanciful initial paperwork and approved a grant. I bet they wasted millions of dollars on Rossi's TE devices and the unnecessarily elaborate and grandiose test equipment they developed which proved that they didn't work. Here is the final report from 2004 by scientists at the Army Corps of Engineer. You can see the elaborate and expensive equipment DOD made up to test the devices and the piddly insignificant efficiency of the devices Rossi gave them. One has to suppose Rossi did not final testing or quality assurance on the final product or he would not have submitted them at all because they simply did not work as he originally claimed. http://dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil/library_items/Thermo%282004%29.pdf I did browse it and read selected sections but I did not read every word so if there is something which casts serious doubt on the above interpretation of what happened, perhaps someone can point it out.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: GOW has apparently learned from experience that selling stock in worthless companies is much lower risk than selling products you can’t deliver. “Capitalism” protects the “pump and dumper” pretty well - but not the guy who takes deposits and does not ship product. Right. But in the US, pump and dump scams get caught too. It's that the punishment is often limited to a stop and desist order and disgorgement of the ill gotten funds. The problem with that last item is that the scammers have often spent or hidden the money by the time the order comes out. One recent example of a pump and dump that got caught is Sniffex -- a company which sold dowsing rods as explosive detectors and perpetrated a $6 million fraud in the US. A stop and disgorge settlement was reached in a case brought by the SEC and the FBI: http://www.propublica.org/article/sec-bomb-detector-bought-by-military-was-front-for-scam-717 http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2008/comp20645_sniffex.pdf http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20645.htm Unfortunately, the scam continued with the sale of hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of the worthless equipment in the rest of the world, especially Iraq and Thailand and resulted in several deaths documented on Youtube in Thailand and unknown numbers of deaths in Iraq. Prosecution of the perpetrators of those schemes is still uncertain. The whole dreadful situation of people who make millions by selling dowsing rods as explosive detectors in mostly undeveloped countries is continuously documented here: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651 A device similar to Sniffex sold in Iraq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQEkXkSVd0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWr6NO8YAbk There was a video on Youtube which showed a member of the military clearing a motor bike with a dowsing rod, soldiers moving in, and the bike exploding from a hidden explosive device which the detector failed to find. Six people died right on film. I couldn't find it so maybe it was redacted from Youtube for the violence. The still photos of this incident are here (WARNING: very graphic and violent and may be NSFW): http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-does.html To summarize, sometimes in some countries, pump and dump schemers do get their hands slapped and their gains reversed. In most places, even in egregious cases that result in injuries and deaths, the scammers are not punished. I think the appropriate punishment for the Sniffex scammers would have been to place them inside an intense mine field and give them one of their own explosive detectors to get themselves out. Sorry for the OT aspects of this post but the point is that scams can be lethal as well as financially destructive and even then it can take an extremely long time to stop them and the punishment to the perpetrators is not sufficient.
[Vo]:unpowered test of Ecat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhQIufkdL4feature=related Fast forward to 6:40 Huge blast of steam and hot water. What is going on here? Well, the mains input power has been removed, the cold water reservoir is still being pumped through the Ecat and the hot water/water-vapour/steam is trickling out and being poured down the drain. Temperature of the effluent (pun intended) is looking good. So far, so good. Test over. it really looks as though the Ecat has been able to continue producing power after mains power has been removed for quite some time. IMPRESSIVE! Show is now over.. But wait, there's more! The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. WTF?| Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored within the Ecat that has been heated by the electrical input power, preserved by the layers of foil insulation and used as a heat store to maintain the illusion of continued LENR power after the electrical input is removed. The venting of all that stored hot water is the proof of that. VortsI have no problem with you indulging your fascination with mysterious sources of energy. What I do have a problem with is your ongoing support for con-artists like Rossi and Watson who cause real harm to those unfortunate enough to be drawn into their web of deception. Have a great day Keef
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
HOLY SHIT! From: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: GOW has apparently learned from experience that selling stock in worthless companies is much lower risk than selling products you can’t deliver. “Capitalism” protects the “pump and dumper” pretty well - but not the guy who takes deposits and does not ship product. Right. But in the US, pump and dump scams get caught too. It's that the punishment is often limited to a stop and desist order and disgorgement of the ill gotten funds. The problem with that last item is that the scammers have often spent or hidden the money by the time the order comes out. One recent example of a pump and dump that got caught is Sniffex -- a company which sold dowsing rods as explosive detectors and perpetrated a $6 million fraud in the US. A stop and disgorge settlement was reached in a case brought by the SEC and the FBI: http://www.propublica.org/article/sec-bomb-detector-bought-by-military-was-front-for-scam-717 http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2008/comp20645_sniffex.pdf http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20645.htm Unfortunately, the scam continued with the sale of hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of the worthless equipment in the rest of the world, especially Iraq and Thailand and resulted in several deaths documented on Youtube in Thailand and unknown numbers of deaths in Iraq. Prosecution of the perpetrators of those schemes is still uncertain. The whole dreadful situation of people who make millions by selling dowsing rods as explosive detectors in mostly undeveloped countries is continuously documented here: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651 A device similar to Sniffex sold in Iraq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQEkXkSVd0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWr6NO8YAbk There was a video on Youtube which showed a member of the military clearing a motor bike with a dowsing rod, soldiers moving in, and the bike exploding from a hidden explosive device which the detector failed to find. Six people died right on film. I couldn't find it so maybe it was redacted from Youtube for the violence. The still photos of this incident are here (WARNING: very graphic and violent and may be NSFW): http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-does.html To summarize, sometimes in some countries, pump and dump schemers do get their hands slapped and their gains reversed. In most places, even in egregious cases that result in injuries and deaths, the scammers are not punished. I think the appropriate punishment for the Sniffex scammers would have been to place them inside an intense mine field and give them one of their own explosive detectors to get themselves out. Sorry for the OT aspects of this post but the point is that scams can be lethal as well as financially destructive and even then it can take an extremely long time to stop them and the punishment to the perpetrators is not sufficient.
Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The Rossi reaction in a nutshell… SNIP Getting back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap opera. No it's not science. It's not science to postulate a mechanism for a reaction that has never been properly demonstrated to work. It's putting the proverbial cart way ahead of the horse.
Re: [Vo]:unpowered test of Ecat
Eff Wivakeef wrote: The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. WTF?| Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored within the Ecat that has been heated by the electrical input power, There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
Hey Axil, I've put nickel nano powder and potassium chlorate (rough powder) into a test tube and heated it to 200C with 120 PSI of hydrogen and saw no excess heat to report. Any ideas on preparing the Ni lattice or tubercles? MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science to the Vortex! LOL! Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it
Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped
Harry wrote: How do you hide 1 cubic meter of iron in the device which was tested? I don't have to. First of all, less than 100 liters of water were heated in the desktop demos - and secondly, 10,000 cm3 are just 10 liters (not 1,000 liters) weighing merely 78kg (not over 7,000). The October 28 demo supposedly heated 3,700 or so liters in 107 modules. 27kg of iron (a slab of 30x20x6cm) per module would have been more than enough (unless I messed up the numbers somewhere along the line). Von: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com An: Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de Gesendet: 18:28 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: ...tell me the number right here... I AM SORRY BUT THAT NUMBER IIS CONFIDENTIAL. ALL THOSE SNAKES AND CLOWNS OUT THERE. COMPETIITION YOU KNOW. BUT I CAN SHOW YOU THE PCM IN A LARGE HEAVY METAL BOX ON A TABLE AND PUMP WATER THROUGH IT TO MAKE SOME STEAM IN A RUBBER HOSE AND THEN WE CAN CALCULATE THE MEGAJOULES FROM THERE - AND THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE ME. DEAL? Sorry - couldn't resist. Jed, we've been there before. 10,000 cm3 of iron at 1,500 C would easily hold enough energy to heat over 100 liters of water to the boiling point and even vaporize some of it. How do you hide 1 cubic meter of iron in the device which was tested? Also it would weigh over 7000kg and break the table it was sitting on. Harry Some isolation and you've got yourself a monster e-cat. If you prefer a simpler solution, some dry SiO2 would do it, too. Or maybe he used a combination of the two or something completely different (though I guess it's purely thermal storage and that's why he came up with the pre-heating procedure of something probably already pre-heated when the demo starts) - but the point is: it wouldn't even have to be exotic or especially clever. Heck - it may even be nothing like that and all he really does is hiding cables or faking sensors or some such thing. I know you believe such a simple setup is physically impossible - what I don't get is why you believe at the same time that an Italian philosopher has done what people like McKubre can't even dream of. Just going with probabilities here - and I know what I find more likely.
Re: [Vo]:unpowered test of Ecat
There is no electrical power input. That water was heated EARLIER by the mains power source. Simple really! From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:unpowered test of Ecat Eff Wivakeef wrote: The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. WTF?| Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored within the Ecat that has been heated by the electrical input power, There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:unpowered test of Ecat
If it was, then the entire power calculation is screwed up. With that kind of pressure the water wouldn't convert to steam (and the hose where the steam came out during the demo would have looked dramatically different - 3 bar would be enough to prevent boiling at the measured temperatures). Maybe Rossi uses water as the isolator for his heat storage - and that isolator water was what shot out of the valve at the end. Von: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 18:54 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:unpowered test of Ecat Eff Wivakeef wrote: The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. WTF?| Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored within the Ecat that has been heated by the electrical input power, There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped
Only if you assume that all or most of the water has been vaporized to dry steam - and besides, Rossi could have started the demo with the storage already more or less heated up. We don't know. Nobody was there and whitnessed the preparations, afaik. One more thing that doesn't really add up: If you look at the power he's putting in and compare it with the temperature building up, you'll see that significantly more power is consumed than required to heat the water during that phase. Where does it go to? Do LENR reactions genuinely consume heat when they start up? And what chemical or physical or nuclear state do they convert it to? Or is the heat that's NOT immediately consumed by the water simply stored? Von: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com An: Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de Gesendet: 19:36 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Lewan Mats says he never thought the reactor shipped If water was being heated the whole time, I think such a scheme would require more electrical energy than was measured. Harry On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: oops i forgot its cubed Harry On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Harry wrote: How do you hide 1 cubic meter of iron in the device which was tested? I don't have to. First of all, less than 100 liters of water were heated in the desktop demos - and secondly, 10,000 cm3 are just 10 liters (not 1,000 liters) weighing merely 78kg (not over 7,000). The October 28 demo supposedly heated 3,700 or so liters in 107 modules. 27kg of iron (a slab of 30x20x6cm) per module would have been more than enough (unless I messed up the numbers somewhere along the line).
Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:03 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote: MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science to the Vortex! LOL! I never said that. You made it up. My response was to a very specific post.
Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
No, science is try a method and see if works accordingly. 2012/1/20 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The Rossi reaction in a nutshell… SNIP Getting back to the science of Ni-H thermal gain, instead of soap opera. No it's not science. It's not science to postulate a mechanism for a reaction that has never been properly demonstrated to work. It's putting the proverbial cart way ahead of the horse. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
See: http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7700068.html# It looks like creating tubercles on the Nickel surface is a chemical process requiring precise temperature and timing controls. This would be hard for an amateur chemist to achieve. On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:03 PM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Axil, I've put nickel nano powder and potassium chlorate (rough powder) into a test tube and heated it to 200C with 120 PSI of hydrogen and saw no excess heat to report. Any ideas on preparing the Ni lattice or tubercles? MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science to the Vortex! LOL! Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it
Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth
At 06:10 AM 1/20/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: Francesca broke the proceedings book into smaller chunks, here: http://iccf15.frascati.enea.it/docs/proceedings.html I noticed this one (part 1, p 52) Abnormal excess heat measured during Mizuno-type experiments: a possible artefact? J-F. FAUVARQUE Abstract. Recently performed Mizuno-type experiments confirmed generation of excess heat but not at the rate reported in ref. 2 (Sotchi -ICCF13). The main reason for the discrepancy is now clear; the bandwidth of our Unigor wattmeter, used in old experiments, was insufficient for correcting measurements of highly fluctuating electric energies. Let us elaborate on the issue of electric power measurements. In the early experiments, they were performed by using the Unigor wattmeter. Its readings were shown to be reliable when the electrolytic cell was replaced by an ohmic resistor, that is when the current was constant. But the current in the electrolytic cell rapidly fluctuated between zero and approximately ten amperes. Wide fluctuations of the current, observed with the oscilloscope, were responsible for wide fluctuations of the voltage between the anode and the cathode. Unlike the Unigor 390M (bandwidth up to 0.1 MHz), the Goerz D6000 instrument (bandwidth up to 2 MHz) is designed to function properly at such fluctuations. As seen in Fig. 2 (curves normalized at 200 volts), the measurements made with the D6000 wattmeter were very close to the thermal values. On the contrary, the Unigor values did not agree with the D6000 values, specially in the 280-300 volts region. This explains the discrepancy between our now results and results reported in (2). Oscilloscopic measurements of electric energy were essentially the same as those performed by using the D6000 wattmeter (even at 300 V, where arcing was very intense). The previously reported excess heat was not observed in our new experiments. ... - - - - - - - - - - - I (and others) have called for waveform monitoring of the eCat calorimetry, or for the use of wideband meters which do not rely on a sinusoidal waveform for their calculations. But I still think that it would be very difficult to sneak in the power levels required for an ecat.
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the world's greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn't blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. 5th message down http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html Go for it Keef - did you miss this forum? . yeah, yeah - we realize that your obsession with this mission to bring justice to Oz is almost clinical - but hey, getting scammed and then getting insulted by the scammer and then stalked and threatened - that will sometimes cause overreaction. Don't forget to take the meds, however.
[Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog
1. Italo R. January 19th, 2012 at 3:36 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-172614 Dear Ing. Rossi, I have been told that in your official E-Cat website http://ecat.com/there is the important news that two Universities are already studying and testing your E-Cats. May I ask you if it is real? Maybe those Universities are in Bologna and Uppsala? I apologize to be so indiscreet but, as you know, we all are excited and follow every fact of E-Cats!! Kind regards, Italo R. Interestingly Rossi published this but did not respond at all so far. Anyone know if the University of Bologna will extend Rossi's contract to test and characterize his technology? It was supposed to expire about now if not funded.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: ** ** If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn’t blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. Sure enough. And the post makes him sound like a lunatic.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Who the hell do you think Blinky Bill is? (I cannot tell a lie!) From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 8:21 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn’t blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. 5th message down http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html Go for it Keef – did you miss this forum? … yeah, yeah - we realize that your obsession with this “mission” to bring justice to Oz is almost clinical – but hey, getting scammed and then getting insulted by the scammer and then stalked and threatened – that will sometimes cause overreaction. Don’t forget to take the meds, however.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
I hope you don't mean my friend Blinky He is a very nice dude. I know him VERY well indeed. From: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn’t blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. Sure enough. And the post makes him sound like a lunatic.
Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: I (and others) have called for waveform monitoring of the eCat calorimetry, or for the use of wideband meters which do not rely on a sinusoidal waveform for their calculations. Wideband metering of what? The mains?!? T
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
On 12-01-20 03:25 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net mailto:jone...@pacbell.net wrote: If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the world's greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn't blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. Sure enough. And the post makes him sound like a lunatic. Why, just 'cause he's into Joe cells as well? I like this (from good old Peswiki): The output of the cell does not have to be connected to the internals of the engine. And I like the fact that after you run your engine with a Joe cell for a while, the engine catches whatever bug the cell had, and then you can disconnect the cell. I guess you're good to go permanently at that point. Sure can't beat that for gas mileage! And if everything's done right the cell's operation produces antigravity as well, and can lift the car right off the ground ... neat trick, that. May not be so good when you're trying to get traction on snow, OTOH (something we care about a lot up here in Ottawa).
Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth
At 12:32 PM 1/20/2012, Terry Blanton wrote: Wideband metering of what? The mains?!? Yes. All of the sub-1MW experiments have been connected to the same mains plug in Rossi's factory. (eg the area under a square wave gives pi/2 = 1.5 more watts than a sine wave --- though I'd have to correct for RMS). And the connection(s) between the control box and the eCat.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
The source doesn't link to yahoo groups. 2012/1/20 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: ** ** If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the world’s greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesn’t blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. Sure enough. And the post makes him sound like a lunatic. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth
Entirely possible to skew the results by using a non-sinusoidal waveform that exceeds the crest factor that the meter is accurate for. This is how the Lutec and similar scams work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4og0S9lmJs From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:ICCF15 proceedings : wattmeter bandwidth On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: I (and others) have called for waveform monitoring of the eCat calorimetry, or for the use of wideband meters which do not rely on a sinusoidal waveform for their calculations. Wideband metering of what? The mains?!? T
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Here is what you need http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982.html If you want more info please contact AUSSIE GUY!
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150 Aus. http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html 20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT? I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I thought he was a beginning scammer. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Err the 20,000 Might be an inadvertent typo. Who knows how many of the stupid things he sold or did did/not deliver. What is for sure is that Greg advertised the SMOT all over the net and lived off the income for a few years. http://groups.google.com.au/groups/search?hl=enie=UTF-8safe=offq=real+ou+now+greg+watsonbtnG=Searchsitesearch= Greg Watson View profile More options Jun 27 1997, 7:00 am Hi All, Thought you might like to checkout my SMOT research. Many worldwide replicators have verified my results. REAL desktop OU NOW! -- Best Regards, Greg Http://www.microtronics.com.au/~gwatson/ YEAH RIGHT! Real OU my arse! From: Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson 1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150 Aus. http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html 20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT? I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I thought he was a beginning scammer. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 13:25 -0800, Eff Wivakeef wrote: Err the 20,000 Might be an inadvertent typo. Who knows how many of the stupid things he sold or did did/not deliver. What is for sure is that Greg advertised the SMOT all over the net and lived off the income for a few years. http://groups.google.com.au/groups/search?hl=enie=UTF-8safe=offq=real+ou+now+greg+watsonbtnG=Searchsitesearch= This is news to me too. The way he approached this list back in the mid-90s, was as a regular guy who had found this interesting thing with magnets and a steel ball. He never talked about selling the SMOT until some people here started asking to have him make one for them. The whole presentation was as if he was making them just for the people on this list, and only because he was being asked. The cost was really quite reasonable if he had actually done any work on them. The SMOT was not orginally even supposed to prove the effect he was claiming. He may have been a guy who just got lazy and failed to deliver, but if he was trying to sell them across the internet, then that tells a different story. Craig
RE: [Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog
The only reference that I could find on ecat.com to dispensation of university testing was more than two months ago, before Rossi seemed to have disavowed it: Q: Will you do more public tests of the E-cat? Asked by Ecat.com 2 months ago A: 1- we made all the tests we had to make 2- no more public tests will be made, the phase of public tests is over for us 3- we now are no more making test-prototypes, but industrial products 4- the tests of our E-Cats from now on will be made exclusively by our Customers 5- all our next work with Universities (Bologna, Uppsala) will not be public, but restricted and confidential Research and Development activity. by Andrea Rossi 2 months ago Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:23:13 -0800 From: maryyu...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog Italo R. January 19th, 2012 at 3:36 PM Dear Ing. Rossi, I have been told that in your official E-Cat website http://ecat.com/ there is the important news that two Universities are already studying and testing your E-Cats. May I ask you if it is real? Maybe those Universities are in Bologna and Uppsala? I apologize to be so indiscreet but, as you know, we all are excited and follow every fact of E-Cats!! Kind regards, Italo R. Interestingly Rossi published this but did not respond at all so far. Anyone know if the University of Bologna will extend Rossi's contract to test and characterize his technology? It was supposed to expire about now if not funded.
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Craig, That particular message could be a plant by someone else but even so, the worldwide number was much higher than in the USA alone. He did repay a few carefully selected purchasers on vortex, including our moderator Bill, and maybe Jed. Selective reimbursement. There are old posts in the archives. I guess he thought the rest of us would forgive and forget ... Wrong. And if he did clear over a million - and Keef wants to fry him but good, ask the tax officials in Oz if he paid his taxes on the $2-3 million. Somehow, it seems unlikely that scammers will pay taxes on ill-gotten gains, but he is pretty clever at avoiding legal responsibilities, it seems. The strangest post from him is on a Aussie solar forum - where he warns a critic to apologize or else he will take them to Court for defamation - and this is the same time frame that he is getting spanked in court by Keef; plus it looks like he did not have an attorney then. ROTFL. -Original Message- From: Craig Haynie 1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150 Aus. http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html 20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT? I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I thought he was a beginning scammer. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
On 12-01-20 04:39 PM, Craig Haynie wrote: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 13:25 -0800, Eff Wivakeef wrote: What is for sure is that Greg advertised the SMOT all over the net and lived off the income for a few years. [ ... ] This is news to me too. The way he approached this list back in the mid-90s, was as a regular guy who had found this interesting thing with magnets and a steel ball. ... He may have been a guy who just got lazy and failed to deliver... No. He could never have been just lazy. That would imply he really had something real, and just didn't follow through on it, but that is certainly not true. He was dishonest about it from the word go; he had nothing which worked. He was claiming to have a device which violated physical law -- and not just an obscure second law violation in marginal conditions, but a violation of well understood, extremely well verified laws of how magnets interact with each other, which certainly also included a pure and simple first law violation. It was a straight-up type 1 PMM, with no wiggle room for statistical violations or ZPE or Casamir forces or other possible cheats. He obviously *never* had a working model. Yet, he CLAIMED to have a working model (certainly an outright lie), which ran and ran and ran (certainly a lie), and he claimed to have a videotape of it running for an extended period (certainly a lie). However, he couldn't actually produce the tape -- there was some cockbull story about something happening to the tape so he couldn't show it to anyone, and some bogus reason why he couldn't tape it again. So, he was clearly a bald face liar, asking people for money for something he certainly knew he didn't have. To suggest that we welcome him back to the list, after he stole money from list members, would be outrageous. (I'm not sure anyone actually made that suggestion.)
[Vo]:Greg pokes smot
Clauzon's test of Watson's SMOT28-Apr-09 12:19 am Ok Greg, I looked at Professor Clauzon's test http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotnrgt.htm First, I don't know who this guy is but I am looking into whether he actually exists. It doesn't really matter. So this experiment is pretty simple. They are simply trying to see how much energy the ball gains when running through a SMOT. Now, they don't actually test this perfectly but I won't get into those details. Lets just jump to the erroneous conclusion. They find that the ball gains energy from running through the SMOT which is no surprise since the magnets create a non-uniform magnetic field which accelerates the ball up the ramp. They find the energy at the input is 3.186 mJ and the energy at the output is 3.610 mJ. The ratio of these two is 1.133. So far so good. Then they conclude that since 1.133 is greater than unity, the efficiency is 113%. Huh? Why do they call that efficiency? Anyway, they can choose to call it whatever they want. The point is that there is nothing going on that is not explainable by standard physics. The ball is placed in a position where the magnetic field has potential energy. Since the potential energy has a gradient (variation in one direction), the ball moves in the direction of lower potential which converts the potential energy of the magnetic field into kinetic energy just as physics predicts. Where does the energy come from? It comes from the fact that you have moved two magnets into a position where they have a varying magnetic field and dragged a metal ball against the direction of the field to where it has higher potential energy. Could you get energy out of a SMOT. Sure why not? You get out whatever energy you put in by dragging the ball against the field minus the frictional losses. It is just like saying you are going to build a water tower and use the water pressure to run an electric dynamo and create electricity. OK, you can do that but you need to get the water up into the tower and this requires work or energy. This can be used to store energy but it does create any more energy than you have put in. In fact energy will be lost to frictional forces as heat. So Greg, what the hell are you trying to say? Clauzon indeed proves that the SMOT works if by work you mean that two magnets put at an angle will pull a ball up a ramp. But so what? What does this have to do with over-unity or free energy? Here is a link where another physicist talks about the SMOT and why the idea is completely silly. http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/smo... READ ALL ABOUT GREGGY'S WONDERFUL BREAKTHROUGH HERE http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_E/threadview?m=tebn=6046tid=51222mid=-1tof=-1rt=2frt=2off=1#-1 (The laws of physics do not apply in the wonderful world of Watson) The fact that the CEO of an energy company cannot understand the most rudimentary physics is completely absurd to me. You definitely make life interesting Greg!
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
That's nothing, he threatens EVERYONE with a defamation action! http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1788051# CaptainScarlet writes... It's a scam... http://www.google.com.au/search?q=suncube+fraudie=utf-8oe=utf-8aq=trls=org.mozilla:en-GB:officialclient=firefox-a There are many other threads on this site stating the same Hi CaptainScarlet, I would suggest you should think about getting involved in a defamation court proceeding before posting links that you do not know contain 100% truthful information. So you know, all those claims came from one person, who has NO PROOF of anything he claims. Just to be very clear here. Unless you are PROVE, in court, that the claim you just made is true, GGE can now sue you for defamation. Care to apologize? - Best regards, Greg Watson, Mng Dir, Green and Gold Energy Pty Ltd Adelaide, South Australia, Australia GreenandGoldEnergy writes... I suggest you be very careful here with what you are writing. We have no issue with taking you to court for Defamation. Greg – seriously Dude, chill with the Defamation threats. affable has said that it appeats that you are no longer trading as he can't find an address etc. and that would be an issue. I can't see defamation happening here (IANAL). Anyway, you have the perfect opportunity to state the facts as you see them as much as you are willing. To me these defamation threats just seem over the top! :-) User #387654 475 posts Naboo The Shaman Forum Regular This thread is like Groundhog Day Look out for the next defamation threat in another 7 page's time Then there is THIS thread http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=903PN=1 The moderator got freaked out by all the threats from Greggy so he closed it down. It's a funny read though! Gizmo Admin Group Administrator Joined: 05 June 2004 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 3193 Posted: 06 October 2008 at 3:46pm | IP Logged No more discussion about the Suncube on my forum please. Any future posts will be deleted unless it is to say the Suncubes have started production and are available for pickup. Thats it, no more, its not in the nature of this forum for this sort of discussion to continue and I'm sick of stressing about it. Wish the best to Green and Gold. Glenn __ If it dont fit, use a bigger hammer. From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 9:48 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson Craig, That particular message could be a plant by someone else but even so, the worldwide number was much higher than in the USA alone. He did repay a few carefully selected purchasers on vortex, including our moderator Bill, and maybe Jed. Selective reimbursement. There are old posts in the archives. I guess he thought the rest of us would forgive and forget ... Wrong. And if he did clear over a million - and Keef wants to fry him but good, ask the tax officials in Oz if he paid his taxes on the $2-3 million. Somehow, it seems unlikely that scammers will pay taxes on ill-gotten gains, but he is pretty clever at avoiding legal responsibilities, it seems. The strangest post from him is on a Aussie solar forum - where he warns a critic to apologize or else he will take them to Court for defamation - and this is the same time frame that he is getting spanked in court by Keef; plus it looks like he did not have an attorney then. ROTFL. -Original Message- From: Craig Haynie 1) My inability to make a 100% solid SMOT device and ship it to the 2 or so people who had sent me $150 Aus. http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html 20,000??? people sent him money for the SMOT? I never knew he was at that level. That's 3 million AUS dollars. I thought he was a beginning scammer. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Yeah RIGHT! Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:15:26 +0930 From: Greg Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Simple Rotary Ou Device Hi All, Just a short note to try to answer those questions I can. 1) There is NO outside power source. 2) The device contains only ceramic magnet and ferromagnetic materials (some balsa, a few bearings and some plactic U channel as well). 3) The device produces rotary torque. Can be stopped with very little pressure from two fingers on a steel 4mm shaft. 4) The device has been moved to the middle of my lounge and my back garden. It still works. 5) The device will not auto start. However the energy necessary to start is only that required to overcome friction. 6) I don't think the device is worthy of a Nobel or my picture on Business Week. I know of several other devices (Finstrud, Gary, Kawai,Bob Shannon's Barkenhausen Effect Battery and many US patents) which show magnetic devices can do work. For some strange reason, we seem to Not want to believe or maybe just want to believe in our own area of research as the One true path. 7) I have posted enough details and ideas for those of you who REALLY want to duplicate the device to do so. Read my postings. 8) Much work still remains to be able to light a 1 watt bulb. When I can do that, I will make available through Stephan's and Bill's OU web sites a Mpeg of the device working. If I can't light a bulb, it will still make a nice toy and maybe a starting place for someone else. 9) The magnets don't appear to be getting weaker or colder, but then I am not generating much power yet. 10) I still call the effect DNMEC (Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion). OOH HE IS A NUKULAR SCIENTIST NOW..SIMPLY AMAZING! Like my flux gate DNMEC effect, both these effects revolve around ferromagnetic and magnet interactions. I believe the Kawai motor is another variation of the DNMEC effect (like the Rod Coil we discussed earlier). Come on guys (and gals), start thinking outside of the square. There is always more than one way to crack eggs. Stop talking .. BUILD SOMETHING! -- Best Regards Greg Watson Consulting [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg Watson Adelaide, S. Australia 61 8 8270 2737 Home/Office/Fax
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
BTW - someone asked earlier how AG/Greg was scheming ... in order to profit from contacts on vortex, juxtaposed and combine with the emergence of Andrea Rossi onto the public scene, and now the answer is clearing up (GOW's strategy). Remember two things - first - he got his big start on vortex, kind of luckily and without enormous bad intent, and that made him a ton of cash, what? 2-3 million? When crooks are successful with any scam, they try to keep the same formula going (at least the good detectives say this - you know: Harry Bosch and Joe Leaphorn) ...cough, cough ... where was I - OH - well its basically that crime is amusingly habitual or non-random to a statistician, and in terms of solvability. As for #2, stay tuned but the date of interest is December 26 in the archives. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Vada a bordo, GOW! T
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Terry still wants to know your doggies' name, LOL -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Vada a bordo, GOW! T
Re: [Vo]:University testing of the E-cat question asked on Rossi blog
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: The only reference that I could find on ecat.com to dispensation of university testing was more than two months ago, before Rossi seemed to have disavowed it:SNIP Interesting bit from ecat.com: “We have some kind of fusion inside but I do not think this is the main energy source” http://ecat.com/news/andrea-rossi-interview-ecat-cold-fusion I think it may be a squirrel. On a treadmill.
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
I continue to be amazed how *convinced* people can be by incomplete and inconclusive evidence. That takes place in all directions and all sides. I looked at the thread cited. As cited, it's definitely not a proof of anything, there would need to be some precedent conditions. However, those who are familiar with the whole sequence, or certain critical parts of it, might well know enough. But that complete evidence hasn't been presented. The result is that people may believe what they choose to believe. My advice is to believe nothing, as to absolute belief. Make routine judgments as to where to place your money, your feet, or your reputation, and it's not necessary to have complete evidence to do that. But don't present your conclusions as if they were proof of anything but your own opinion. Physicists who rejected LENR in 1989-1990 because it seemed impossible to them may have been making a decision that was reasonable given what they knew, and the error was in over-exclusion of evidence contrary to their beliefs, and incomplete study of the foundations of their beliefs. Nevertheless, in those early days, there were lots of reasons to remain *very* skeptical. Very skeptical is not the same as certainty as to bogosity. That certainty never existed with cold fusion, as to what would reasonably be considered scientific consensus, i.e., the judgment of those who became reasonably informed. Read the 1989 and 2004 U.S. DoE reports and see if it's reasonable to conclude that there was *certainty of bogosity.* There wasn't, not even in 1989, and by 2004, experts, including some major fraction (as much as one-third) who, from their comments, weren't going to accept cold fusion if it bit them in the nose, were about evenly divided on the issue of some significant anomaly being involved. The conclusion that further research was needed and actually recommended was unanimous in 2004, and that wasn't -- as I've seen some skeptics claim -- mere boilerplate. In 1989, yes, it was a politically forced conclusion, the Nobel Prize-winning co-chair threatened to resign if that moderate language wasn't included. Smart man. What's the problem with the conclusion that Greg and Aussie Guy are the same? The problem is that if some person, with a created pseudonym, claims to be So-and-So, on the Internet, we don't know it is actually that person. Presumably, from the history, and assuming that those writing here aren't lying, there is a real Greg. Yet I have seen, in Usenet posts, for example, straw puppets, users claiming to be such and such a person, with such and such views, when the user was actually the opposite, an enemy, and was attempting to expose and humiliate. I obviously don't know that this is the case here, and my sense is that Keef is right; if Keef is right, the comments about obsession are way out of place. When we have rare and unusual knowledge, that could be important for the protection of users, we have a special obligation to reveal this information. Judging someone who does this as obsessed is downright rude. Possessing special knowledge is not obsession. There are other traits that would have to be examined, and for what purpose? Do we suggest that users who are obsessed should be booted from the list? Or that what they tell us should be discounted as the ravings of a lunatic? If there are people actually considering investing with Aussie Guy, these allegations should be known, so that people can make up their own minds. Everyone should be aware of how unreliable information found here and elsewhere on the internet can be. At 03:21 PM 1/20/2012, Jones Beene wrote: If anyone is still in doubt that Greg and Aussi Guy are one and the same, here is a thread from another forum - that turned up today - where other posters are calling Greg the worlds greatest supplier of bullshit, to his face - and he doesnt blink an eye - PLUS he identifies himself as AussiGuy. Case closed. 5th message down http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.htmlhttp://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-165.html Go for it Keef did you miss this forum? yeah, yeah - we realize that your obsession with this mission to bring justice to Oz is almost clinical but hey, getting scammed and then getting insulted by the scammer and then stalked and threatened that will sometimes cause overreaction. Dont forget to take the meds, however.
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
At 03:39 PM 1/20/2012, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: And if everything's done right the cell's operation produces antigravity as well, and can lift the car right off the ground ... neat trick, that. May not be so good when you're trying to get traction on snow, OTOH (something we care about a lot up here in Ottawa). Aw, not a problem. The cooling fan will move the levitating engine right along. Be sure to include that in the patent! Stephen, you are demonstrating the Old Limited Thinking! You don't need traction if you can levitate. Of course, the Devil is in the details. Nevertheless, if we can imagine levitation of a car, we can surely imagine whatever details we like.
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
(part deux) To wit: http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/new-cold-fusion-success-claim-aussie-guy-says-he-has-fleischmann-pons-experiment-devices-working/ You can connect the dots with AG's recent outburst, prior to the catch which was the fumingly silly realization in a post to JR - that the BBB never shipped, in the context of the above. But it all fits now, if you understand that we are dealing with a sociopathic scammer with an ulterior motive. The line: 1) Rossi cannot deliver, since he lied about the customer 2) However, I can deliver, due my recent contacts in Asia (more BS) 3) Here is my PayPal # - buy shares in my new company now! All of which ploy was cut short by an inconvenient truth: getting caught by an adversary you had thought was going to go away, if you could blow enough hot air. Hey - one of the great beauties of the internet, no? i.e. busting low level scammers before they can get traction? Probably another reason why the consumate jerk: Murdoch - wants to restrict content with bogus copyrights, so he cannot get caught as easily as he did recently with the cell hacking. Lock that cazzo up ! -Original Message- From: Jones Beene BTW - someone asked earlier how AG/Greg was scheming ... in order to profit from contacts on vortex, juxtaposed and combine with the emergence of Andrea Rossi onto the public scene, and now the answer is clearing up (GOW's strategy). Remember two things - first - he got his big start on vortex, kind of luckily and without enormous bad intent, and that made him a ton of cash, what? 2-3 million? When crooks are successful with any scam, they try to keep the same formula going (at least the good detectives say this - you know: Harry Bosch and Joe Leaphorn) ...cough, cough ... where was I - OH - well its basically that crime is amusingly habitual or non-random to a statistician, and in terms of solvability. As for #2, stay tuned but the date of interest is December 26 in the archives. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Over at the forum at PeakOil.com is a posting by 'SeaGypsy' trying to start a Class Action suit against Rossi... (see below) http://peakoil.com/forums/class-action-vs-rossi-ecat-et-al-t64094-30.html But he clearly admits as to not having invested or 'lost' anything to Rossi. I don't know what the laws are in the land of Oz, but in the USofA, if you can't prove damages, you have no case. For all we know, 'SeaGypsy' *IS* Greg, and is trying to scam people by getting them to contribute to a bogus Class Action suit! I certainly support Eff Wivakeef's, AKA blinkybill, efforts to pursue Greg in order to try to recoup his investment, and hopefully stop Greg from further scams, however, it is clear that he and SeaGypsy know absolutely *nothing* about LENR/CF and Rossi, and have called it a scam despite their total ignorance of what has transpired to date. They probably are not aware of lenr-canr.org, of the peer-reviewed pubs on it, the high-quality work done by SRI, SPAWAR, NASA and many, many highly published scientists throughout the world. Their anger toward scams is obsessive, and blinding to what should/should not be ridiculed -- Greg, absolutely should; Rossi, maybe; CF/LENR absolutely NOT. -Mark = Class Action VS Rossi ECAT et al. by SeaGypsy Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 am Let this be the beginning. I have not put in one cent, but I bill at $100 an hour. i have spent about 10 hours studying the Rossi mumbo jumbo, so my hat is in for $1000 AUD or US is acceptable. Anyone else want to put their claim down here, in advance? The more the merrier and higher caliber pro-bono lawyer we may retain. These guys are soo, screwed. Lookout Carl, you are very likely to be on the prosecution subpoena. =
Re: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith
At 12:04 PM 1/14/2012, Terry Blanton wrote: Geeze, don't these people have cell phones to coordinate with? While following the Aussie Guy thread at http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-195.html#p109 I found an update on the Dick Smith story: Last week, Mr Smith sent aerospace engineer Ian Bryce to attend a public meeting held by Mr Millin at Mullumbimby. Mr Bryce said the claimed technology was not supported with any confidence. He said both he and Mr Smith had sought to examine the alleged technology because at least six scientists had observed or studied its results and had been encouraged. However, further inspection had revealed major problems with that data, Mr Bryce said - - - - - SO: Bryce wasn't sent to Italy, but to the Mullumbimby meeting.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith
At 04:05 PM 1/20/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote: And later on : http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-240.html#p1100188 Mystery blue box sank 'cold fusion' for Dick Smith BY: ANTHONY KLAN From: The Australian January 20, 2012 12:00AM . Mr Bryce said one of the most indicative signals that the technology was unlikely to perform as claimed was the presence of a large, unexplained blue box sitting adjacent to the invention, which was clearly a substantial power supply. He said Mr Rossi's results from the experiment -- three pages of data scrawled with handwritten corrections -- and the very shoddy set up of the device all suggested it didn't work. Another concern was waste-water being poured down the drain -- if a nuclear reaction was occurring that water would be highly radioactive, Mr Bryce said. [ Gee ... Bryce didn't look very far, it seems. Ah well. ]
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
I agree 100% with Mark on this. And it is not a fine point. The 'bad guys' are being confused in the dust of high body count. Keef - my advice to you - is to get your act together on your real adversary. It is GOW and not LENR. LENR is essentially correct, as science. Yes, it rests on the vagaries of QM, but it may carry QM to the altar and not the other way around. Check out the LENR/CANR site, because you lose most of your allies if you try to go too far with this. IOW, to be precise - you buddy Greg is a jerk who just happened to back into this technology as a vehicle for his own scam, not a contributor to the technology in any way. Jones -Original Message- From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint Over at the forum at PeakOil.com is a posting by 'SeaGypsy' trying to start a Class Action suit against Rossi... (see below) http://peakoil.com/forums/class-action-vs-rossi-ecat-et-al-t64094-30.html But he clearly admits as to not having invested or 'lost' anything to Rossi. I don't know what the laws are in the land of Oz, but in the USofA, if you can't prove damages, you have no case. For all we know, 'SeaGypsy' *IS* Greg, and is trying to scam people by getting them to contribute to a bogus Class Action suit! I certainly support Eff Wivakeef's, AKA blinkybill, efforts to pursue Greg in order to try to recoup his investment, and hopefully stop Greg from further scams, however, it is clear that he and SeaGypsy know absolutely *nothing* about LENR/CF and Rossi, and have called it a scam despite their total ignorance of what has transpired to date. They probably are not aware of lenr-canr.org, of the peer-reviewed pubs on it, the high-quality work done by SRI, SPAWAR, NASA and many, many highly published scientists throughout the world. Their anger toward scams is obsessive, and blinding to what should/should not be ridiculed -- Greg, absolutely should; Rossi, maybe; CF/LENR absolutely NOT. -Mark = Class Action VS Rossi ECAT et al. by SeaGypsy Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 am Let this be the beginning. I have not put in one cent, but I bill at $100 an hour. i have spent about 10 hours studying the Rossi mumbo jumbo, so my hat is in for $1000 AUD or US is acceptable. Anyone else want to put their claim down here, in advance? The more the merrier and higher caliber pro-bono lawyer we may retain. These guys are soo, screwed. Lookout Carl, you are very likely to be on the prosecution subpoena. = attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith
Another concern was waste-water being poured down the drain -- if a nuclear reaction was occurring that water would be highly radioactive, Mr. Bryce said. It's pretty clear that Mr. Bryce didn't do his homework... at all! Woefully ignorant of anything about LENR/CF and the E-Cat demos. That's what he gets for not reading vortex-l! :-) Mr. Smith, I know several highly qualified techies who will be happy to give you a proper assessment... -m -Original Message- From: Alan J Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:15 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi fails to call Dick Smith At 04:05 PM 1/20/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote: And later on : http://peakoil.com/forums/the-cold-fusion-thread-pt-4-merged-t63982-240.html #p1100188 Mystery blue box sank 'cold fusion' for Dick Smith BY: ANTHONY KLAN From: The Australian January 20, 2012 12:00AM . Mr Bryce said one of the most indicative signals that the technology was unlikely to perform as claimed was the presence of a large, unexplained blue box sitting adjacent to the invention, which was clearly a substantial power supply. He said Mr Rossi's results from the experiment -- three pages of data scrawled with handwritten corrections -- and the very shoddy set up of the device all suggested it didn't work. Another concern was waste-water being poured down the drain -- if a nuclear reaction was occurring that water would be highly radioactive, Mr Bryce said. [ Gee ... Bryce didn't look very far, it seems. Ah well. ]
RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
Keef, over here in the states, the saying goes, Don't throw the baby (LENR) out with the bath-water (GOW). Where Rossi fits into that saying is debatable... -mark _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:21 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson I agree 100% with Mark on this. And it is not a fine point. The 'bad guys' are being confused in the dust of high body count. Keef - my advice to you - is to get your act together on your real adversary. It is GOW and not LENR. LENR is essentially correct, as science. Yes, it rests on the vagaries of QM, but it may carry QM to the altar and not the other way around. Check out the LENR/CANR site, because you lose most of your allies if you try to go too far with this. IOW, to be precise - you buddy Greg is a jerk who just happened to back into this technology as a vehicle for his own scam, not a contributor to the technology in any way. Jones -Original Message- From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint Over at the forum at PeakOil.com is a posting by 'SeaGypsy' trying to start a Class Action suit against Rossi... (see below) http://peakoil.com/forums/class-action-vs-rossi-ecat-et-al-t64094-30.html But he clearly admits as to not having invested or 'lost' anything to Rossi. I don't know what the laws are in the land of Oz, but in the USofA, if you can't prove damages, you have no case. For all we know, 'SeaGypsy' *IS* Greg, and is trying to scam people by getting them to contribute to a bogus Class Action suit! I certainly support Eff Wivakeef's, AKA blinkybill, efforts to pursue Greg in order to try to recoup his investment, and hopefully stop Greg from further scams, however, it is clear that he and SeaGypsy know absolutely *nothing* about LENR/CF and Rossi, and have called it a scam despite their total ignorance of what has transpired to date. They probably are not aware of lenr-canr.org, of the peer-reviewed pubs on it, the high-quality work done by SRI, SPAWAR, NASA and many, many highly published scientists throughout the world. Their anger toward scams is obsessive, and blinding to what should/should not be ridiculed -- Greg, absolutely should; Rossi, maybe; CF/LENR absolutely NOT. -Mark = Class Action VS Rossi ECAT et al. by SeaGypsy Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 am Let this be the beginning. I have not put in one cent, but I bill at $100 an hour. i have spent about 10 hours studying the Rossi mumbo jumbo, so my hat is in for $1000 AUD or US is acceptable. Anyone else want to put their claim down here, in advance? The more the merrier and higher caliber pro-bono lawyer we may retain. These guys are soo, screwed. Lookout Carl, you are very likely to be on the prosecution subpoena. = attachment: winmail.dat
[Vo]:billb bought no SMOTseses
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Jones Beene wrote: He did repay a few carefully selected purchasers on vortex, including our moderator Bill, Nope, I never was interested, other than to buy $10 of used mouseballs and a length of small-gauge train track. My personal policy is, when playing with FE/OU, the first rule is to leave your wallet and credit cards at home! Didn't Greg claim to be doing a production run of 100 units, all pre-sold? If he wasn't a scammer to begin with, that probably was his doom right there: thousands of bucks of cash in hand from the magical internet. It can push some ordinary people right over the edge. Whom the gods would destroy, they first give plans for a Free Energy device. I still have little plastic drawer entirely full of used mouseballs... (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Keef Versus Greg Watson
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: So, he was clearly a bald face liar, asking people for money for something he certainly knew he didn't have. To suggest that we welcome him back to the list, after he stole money from list members, would be outrageous. (I'm not sure anyone actually made that suggestion.) Already happened. He popped up a few years later (perhaps on freenrg-L rather than here?) but instantly vanished again as soon as someone asked whether *any* vortex SMOT pre-pays were still not reimbursed. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:billb bought no SMOTseses
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:19 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: I still have little plastic drawer entirely full of used mouseballs... Those poor mice. It reminds me of what the dear, late Chris Tinsley used to say: I have the mind of a child . . . in a jar of formaldehyde on my desk. :-) T
[Vo]:Podcast interview about Ian Bryce's e-Cat investigation on behalf of Dick Smith
The other week there was a story about Ian Bryce from Australian Skeptics doing an investigation on behalf of Dick Smith. See these stories: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/mullumbimby-helping-to-save-world-20120112-1pxj2.html http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/more-fizzer-than-fusion-so-dicks-not-energised-20120114-1q0fv.html And now there's an interview out with Ian Bryce in the latest Skeptic Zone episode: http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012
RE: [Vo]:Podcast interview about Ian Bryce's e-Cat investigation on behalf of Dick Smith
Those articles have been mentioned here in the past, but thanks for adding the podcast to the mix. Though there were absolutely no technical revelations, what I did take away from the interview is the breath of investors being lured in. In the past, Rossi claimed that the customer's money would be held in escrow until they were satisfied that the E-Cat works as promised. Those statements lewd many to believe that he could not be perpetrating a scam. It should be quite obvious by now, that there are a lot of people being separated from their money without any product testing...purely as investors. For anyone who doesn't want to listen to the whole interview, just listen ~ 6:30 to ~30:00. Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:58:53 +0100 From: hjarns...@gmail.com To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Podcast interview about Ian Bryce's e-Cat investigation on behalf of Dick Smith The other week there was a story about Ian Bryce from Australian Skeptics doing an investigation on behalf of Dick Smith. See these stories:http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/mullumbimby-helping-to-save-world-20120112-1pxj2.html http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/more-fizzer-than-fusion-so-dicks-not-energised-20120114-1q0fv.html And now there's an interview out with Ian Bryce in the latest Skeptic Zone episode:http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012
[Vo]:Issue of Patent Protection?
Now in this time of research and application, I seem to have reached a finality with bulb demonstrations, with the first beginning tommorow. I have made good tests today with the principle using a 15 watt bulb as the load. But first one must fathom what is going on... Harvey D Norris wrote: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AudJdtb4CqF7vnyEjBRabBrsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20120120181817AA383Fw When historically,(what year) did Tesla and Westinghouse demonstrate the superiority of AC vs DC for power.? Having seemingly found a 2nd example of this beyond belief, I need to determine the historical precedent for the first so called War of the Currents, where Edison lost the battle to Tesla, and when AC was found superior to DC for power delivery over distance. I would imagine a date of 1897 might be set, where Tesla/ Westinghouse first exhibited the technology at the Chicago Worlds Fair. ANSWER: wikipedia: The end of the War of Currents was marked in 1891 by the International Electro-Technical Exhibition †1891 in Frankfurt Germany (Die Elektrotechnische Ausstellung). During this exposition a three phase AC power system developed by Mikhail Dolivo-Dobrovolsky and Oerlikon was able to send power over 109 miles from Lauffen to Frankfurt. It successfully operated motors and lights at the fair. Many corporate technical representatives (including E.W. Rice of Thomson-Houston Electric Company (what became General Electric)) attended. The technical advisors and representatives were impressed. The following year General Electric formed and immediately invested heavily in AC power (at this time Thomas Edison's opinions on company direction were muted by President Coffin and the GE board of directors). Westinghouse was already ahead in AC, but it only took a few years for General Electric to catch up, mainly thanks to Charles Proteus Steinmetz, a Prussian mathematician who was the first person to fully understand AC power from a solid mathematical standpoint. General Electric hired many talented new engineers to improve its design of transformers, generators, motors and other apparatus. In Europe Siemens and Halske became the dominant force. Three phase 60 Hz at 120 volts became the dominant system in North America while 220-240 volts at 50 Hz became the standard in Europe. Source(s): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Curr… Now the second example that I am refering to was made today Dual Channel Scopings of Secondaries to be placed in Series from (corrected) 666 Machine; ~ 60 degree Time Difference from poles over Identical Phase Series! This actually explains how fields in near unison can exist from the combinations. http://youtu.be/CBR1z5WaKAE HDN Now from here the tests with bulbs will corroborate my claims, I suppose. Todays test indicated that with a 15 watt bulb 180 volts would exist from a 22 volt alternator, with all the energy passed through the air through this air core method refered to as the 666 machine. Both methods use 4/1 step up transformers. However given this load and this input the forcasted DC conversion voltage across the bulb will be only 120 volts. So given the above facts I can show 22 volts input using a 4 fold transformer producing 180 volts to 15 watt load, which produces 50% better efficiency to that load as predicted by theory. The 22 volt alternator using a 4/1 step up transformer will light the bulb over 50% greater then what 120 volt wall voltage will produce, I imagine, since the heated filament has a non linear resistance. Thus I feel that in demonstrating these facts, I might be defeating my purposes here, and if I can deliver the goods, I should seek a patent first. It could be a new war of the currents where once again the AC application may become superior to the former known DC application as the most sensible conversion of 3 phase energy to a common resistive load. It could be a gold mine as they say, so whats the issue of rights to the gold mine you discovered. Should I just put up private local demonstrations of the process and then hope for investors to generate the patent application costs? It doesnt seem wise to put it on the internet openly. I remember some time ago there was discussions about how disclosures of an idea will make the patent application difficult, as a prior disclosure somehow invalidates the claim. Any comments from the vortex rat pack here? Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
[Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
Been a Vortex web lurker too long. Finally something that blows up Rossi, his lunatic supporters and exposes how this scam works. http://skepticzone.libsyn.com/webpage/the-skeptic-zone-170-21-jan-2012 It is good to see Ian Bryce of the Australian Skeptics taking a slice out of Rossi, doing the numbers and openly showing Rossi's data doesn't stack up and is fabricated. I bet plenty of people at that meeting still invested their money. Too bad there are plenty of green and stupid people around who want to believe Rossi and his E-Cat will save the planet, even when Ian Bryce shows them it fails the 3 legged stool test. Don't you find it very interesting Rossi was scheduled to talk, via a Skype video link, to a group of family sized investors, despite saying that he was not interested in personal investors? I bet the licensee, after talking with Bryce and seeing he was negative, told Rossi not to call. Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors for them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam works. Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going on. Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently are working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who have been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward and contact the Australian Skeptics. It is good to be an Australian skeptic, see someone prove my doubts were correct and to finally see this scam exposed as to how it works and before anyone loses any more money.
Re: [Vo]:Kullander's detailed isotopic analysis of ash from Rossi's E-Cat?
Anyone? I'm interested too... On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, John Milstone john_sw_orla...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi everyone! Last November, Sven Kullander promised a detailed isotopic analysis of the ash from Rossi's E-Cat by Christmas. (http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416) It's now well past Christmas, and I haven't seen any signs of this report. Does anyone know what happened to it? John
[Vo]:I`ll just leave this here
I ask the wisdom of the crowd for a sanity check. Can rossi achieve do it yourself isotopic separation? Can a nickel carbonyl reflux column achieve isotopic separation? Is a centrifuge also required or just a vortex tube? Is the isotope refining more controversial than LENR? Does one get the impression that the standard decay chain and cross section charts do not account for LENR? Is a proliferation risk present should rossi come out? Are nuclear engineers all over the world being assassinated? Has anyone contacted the department of homeland security over this? Do any of the party's involved have NRC license? Could any one involved be arrested for possession of dirty bomb material? Do I get water boarded for funding terrorism or Is the rossi heater multi-level marketing in the digital age?
Re: [Vo]:Kullander's detailed isotopic analysis of ash from Rossi's E-Cat?
On 21/01/2012 5:00 PM, Bastiaan Bergman wrote: Anyone? I'm interested too... On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, John Milstone john_sw_orla...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi everyone! Last November, Sven Kullander promised a detailed isotopic analysis of the ash from Rossi's E-Cat by Christmas. (http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416) It's now well past Christmas, and I haven't seen any signs of this report. Does anyone know what happened to it? John I wonder how long is the list of scientists, engineers and other professionals, wanting to believe so much in the E-Cat and it's promise, who forgot their training to always be skeptical? Good thing Ian Bruce and Disk Smith were not sucked in and uncovered how the scam works. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here
On 21/01/2012 5:03 PM, thorium breeder wrote: Is the rossi heater multi-level marketing in the digital age? You just got a hole in one.
Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here
On 21/01/2012 5:12 PM, Phil Wilson wrote: On 21/01/2012 5:03 PM, thorium breeder wrote: Is the rossi heater multi-level marketing in the digital age? You just got a hole in one. You got that right. Wonder what happens when the E-Cat hits 451 deg F? Bury baby burn? Bring it on! Shaun
Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:33 PM, thorium breeder thorium.bree...@gmail.com wrote: I ask the wisdom of the crowd for a sanity check. Can rossi achieve do it yourself isotopic separation? One of the more far out of Rossi's claims, made clearly and at least twice in his misnamed blog (JONP), was that he can do (nickel) isotope separation on the cheap. Of course, that's immensely unlikely. He was asked how he does it and of course he said it was proprietary. It ranks up there with the self destruct system and the private homes and factories which are currently heated by E-cats but of course we can't see them or talk to the owners.
Re: [Vo]:Ian Bryce and Rossi
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Shaun Taylor shauntaylor...@gmail.comwrote: Ok Rossi may not be interested in private investors for Leonardo Corp Well, we don't know that. He says it but it doesn't mean he didn't take money secretly already with people who signed NDA's. For sure, a lot of people on his blog volunteer to send some. How would we know how many he took up on the offer or from other sources?Also, we know he got money from Ampenergo. It was described in an interview by an Ampenergo principal who refused to the name the amount but described it as a major part of the equation or some such words. but instead is working with his licensees to hook in private investors for them and in return for him. Now it is becoming clearer how this scam works. At least how part of it might work. Seems Mary, Jones and others here were correct. There is a scam going on. Dick Smith and Ian Bryce have exposed how it works and apparently are working to stop it as they are now asking for people any country who have been approached to invest in local E-Cat licensees to come forward and contact the Australian Skeptics. That will be interesting, LOL.
Re: [Vo]:I`ll just leave this here
On 21/01/2012 5:46 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:33 PM, thorium breeder thorium.bree...@gmail.com mailto:thorium.bree...@gmail.com wrote: I ask the wisdom of the crowd for a sanity check. Can rossi achieve do it yourself isotopic separation? One of the more far out of Rossi's claims, made clearly and at least twice in his misnamed blog (JONP), was that he can do (nickel) isotope separation on the cheap. Of course, that's immensely unlikely. He was asked how he does it and of course he said it was proprietary. It ranks up there with the self destruct system and the private homes and factories which are currently heated by E-cats but of course we can't see them or talk to the owners. In the latest video interview, you know the one with the unmoved BBB, the BBB that Rossi said was GONE to the customer but later said was never was GONE, there is a factor heater just behind the right door of BBB. A NORMAL LPG BASED SPACE HEATER. There is no heating in his lab either. What a crock. Thanks to Dick Smith and Ian Bryce we now know how his scam works. They suck in gullible green investors through his licensees doing investor presentations. Talks to them via Skype to help the licensee get them over the line and signing the cheques. Bet there was a shill or 2 in the audience that night, who would sign over fake cheques so as to get the others to do likewise and not miss out. Shaun
Re: [Vo]:KHCO3
*I've put nickel nano powder and potassium chlorate (rough powder) into **a test tube and heated it to 200C with 120 PSI of hydrogen and saw no **excess heat to report.* I don’t understand why you selected potassium chlorate over potassium carbonate K2CO3 as the catalyst. Also, 200C is far less than the curie point of nickel. Try a temperature above 355C. On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:03 PM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Axil, I've put nickel nano powder and potassium chlorate (rough powder) into a test tube and heated it to 200C with 120 PSI of hydrogen and saw no excess heat to report. Any ideas on preparing the Ni lattice or tubercles? MY: You have quite an ego to accuse Axil of not contributing science to the Vortex! LOL! Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it