Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Harry Veeder]

I think physical principles should be treated like fine clothes. Keep
them but don't wear them all the time.

Harry


On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:39 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
> Let us not throw away the CoE too fast.  I suggest that an solution will one
> day appear that does not do this.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 9:15 pm
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
>
> 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then:
>   1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)?
> 2. For every neutron that exits, does another enter this space (to balance
> things, remember CoE!)?
> 3. If either #1 or #1a are possible, and not #2, then CoE gets tossed out
> the
> window!
>
> Altho, for all practical purposes, CoE would still appear to be intact, BUT,
> if
> we can optimize the popping out of existence within some object, and it
> happens
> often enough, then it would be possible to violate CoE within that object.
>
> Jones just opened a can of worms... and the feast begins!
> :-)
> -Mark
> _
> From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:29 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mix...@bigpond.com
>
>> They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space.
>
> This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the
> time, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do
> you
> know of any other reports of anomalous cooling?
>
>> Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can
> simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the
> atmosphere.
>
> Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true.
> But
> in that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling.
>
> IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why
> mention
> it? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose
> of
> the posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of
> fractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net
> cooling instead of heating.
>
> The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this
> disappearing
> act, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can possibly do the
> same. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a remote
> possibility.
>
> When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I
> meant
> was that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen
> to
> virtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills'
> hydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137
> steps.
>
> After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time
> -
> with which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation.
> Maybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot
> disqualify it
> easily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos
> operating
> in only one way) makes it not possible ☺ simply because Mills himself may
> have
> overlooked another feature of a broader phenomena.
>
> Jones
>

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Harry Veeder]

Since the subject has arisen, it is worth mentioning that the
spontaneous generation of matter happens in "steady-state"
cosmological theories propounded by Fred Hoyle and others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_State_theory

Harry

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: MarkI-ZeroPoint
>
> 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then:
>        1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)?
>
> Let me just say this. There have been for a long time - reports of 
> spontaneous (anomalous) hydrogen showing up in extreme vacuum conditions. 
> Hydrogen from nowhere, essentially. But that phenomenon, if true, has morphed 
> into fringe religious bogosity so one hesitates to even mention it. There was 
> an article in IE and it has been picked up here, for what it is worth:
>
> http://blog.hasslberger.com/2006/06/hydrogen_from_space_the_aether.html
>
> This is not the same as neutrons from nowhere, except that the neutron has 
> only a short half-life, and you expect to see hydrogen in the end. Does that 
> account for the hydrogen phenomenon, and if so, where is the decay energy? 
> Does trans-dimensional transfer happen isothermally, regardless? (at least 
> from the perspective of the host)
>
> That would be the only way it could happen.
>
> Jones

[Vo]: Nucleons behave like Electrons

[David Roberson]

Earlier I made a posting about the addition of a proton or neutron to a stable 
isotope and observed that if one of these new compositions is stable then the 
other one must not be.  This observation holds throughout the entire list of 
elements on the chart that I have been referencing.  Now I have a hypothesis as 
to why this is true.
First of all, it is important to note that the above additions result in a new 
element or isotope that has one additional nucleon.  After completing a great 
deal of research on the subject I see that a group of elements that share the 
same number of nucleons have an interesting behavior.  They exhibit energy 
levels like an electron cloud around a single nucleus.  A minimum energy level 
(ground level) is always present and adjacent elements are always at a higher 
level.   It takes one beta plus or minus decay to get between these adjacent 
levels and it appears that this will be energetically favored and always occur 
at some future time.  The time frame for this decay might be quite extensive, 
but it will be measurable in the form of radioactivity.  I think of this 
process as a lot like the decay of electrons from higher energy levels which 
eventually get to the ground state.  
I constructed an equation that can be used to find the expected number of 
nucleons as a function of the number of protons within a nucleus.  I restricted 
the range of protons so that it eliminates the very few proton case and also 
stops at a proton count of 40 so that I can concentrate the research to the 
region to which I am interested and to improve the curve fit substantially.
I then transformed the above expected nucleon number verses proton count into 
the reverse relationship.  In this manner I can enter the nucleon count and 
calculate the proton and neutron numbers that ideally support it.
As an example, if I enter a nucleon count of 40 I arrive at an expected proton 
count of 19 and an associated neutron count of 21.  The element that this 
chooses is potassium 40.  Now this should be the location of the minimum energy 
level or ground state for 40 nucleons.  The interesting thing I observed is 
that this element is unstable with a very long half life.  My explanation is 
that the number of protons and the number of neutrons are both odd so they 
cannot pair up.  The resulting mismatch reduces the binding energy enough that 
it actually falls below the adjacent elements of Calcium 40 and Argon 40 which 
each have an even count of both types of nucleons.  Also, it is apparent that 
the fall off rate of binding energy verses error in nucleon ideal distribution 
is such that the next element on each side of the two above has less binding 
energy than these ideal ones.  For this reason I propose that a beta type decay 
process will eventually yield one of the two stable levels one step at a time 
as each decay takes place.
It should be noted that this odd proton, odd neutron count situation is 
virtually always unstable.  And likewise the even proton, even neutron case is 
similarly always stable when it occurs at the ideal count position.  When just 
one of these counts is even the elements tend to be stable, but less so.
I have not reviewed the cases where other types of decays are present and that 
might yield fertile ground for future research.
The conclusion I draw from my search is that there will not be a case where the 
addition of a proton or a neutron from a currently stable element will both 
result in a stable new isotope or element.  One or the other of these processes 
has less binding energy and a beta plus or beta minus decay will point to it.  
There are conditions where neither new product is stable, but these are fairly 
rare.
I plan to analyze the decay times of the energy steps in these nuclear 
configurations and compare them to the time frames for electron energy level 
steps.   The levels of energy events within the nucleus are enormously larger 
than chemical ones but the decay times are likewise much longer.  These 
characteristics seem to be contradictory.
Dave 

RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 

1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then:
1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)?

Let me just say this. There have been for a long time - reports of spontaneous 
(anomalous) hydrogen showing up in extreme vacuum conditions. Hydrogen from 
nowhere, essentially. But that phenomenon, if true, has morphed into fringe 
religious bogosity so one hesitates to even mention it. There was an article in 
IE and it has been picked up here, for what it is worth:

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2006/06/hydrogen_from_space_the_aether.html

This is not the same as neutrons from nowhere, except that the neutron has only 
a short half-life, and you expect to see hydrogen in the end. Does that account 
for the hydrogen phenomenon, and if so, where is the decay energy? Does 
trans-dimensional transfer happen isothermally, regardless? (at least from the 
perspective of the host)

That would be the only way it could happen.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[David Roberson]

Let us not throw away the CoE too fast.  I suggest that an solution will one 
day appear that does not do this.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 9:15 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)


1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then:
1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)?
. For every neutron that exits, does another enter this space (to balance 
hings, remember CoE!)?
. If either #1 or #1a are possible, and not #2, then CoE gets tossed out the 
indow!
Altho, for all practical purposes, CoE would still appear to be intact, BUT, if 
e can optimize the popping out of existence within some object, and it happens 
ften enough, then it would be possible to violate CoE within that object.
Jones just opened a can of worms... and the feast begins!
-)
Mark

rom: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
ent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:29 PM
o: vortex-l@eskimo.com
ubject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

Original Message-
rom: mix...@bigpond.com 
> They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. 
This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the 
ime, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do you 
now of any other reports of anomalous cooling?
> Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can 
imply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the 
tmosphere. 
Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true. But 
n that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. 
IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why mention 
t? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose of 
he posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of 
ractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net 
ooling instead of heating. 
The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this 
disappearing 
ct, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can possibly do the 
ame. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a remote 
ossibility.
When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I meant 
as that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen to 
irtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills' 
ydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137 
teps. 
After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time - 
ith which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation. 
aybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot disqualify it 
asily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos operating 
n only one way) makes it not possible ☺ simply because Mills himself may have 
verlooked another feature of a broader phenomena.
Jones

RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then:
1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)?
2. For every neutron that exits, does another enter this space (to balance 
things, remember CoE!)?
3. If either #1 or #1a are possible, and not #2, then CoE gets tossed out the 
window!

Altho, for all practical purposes, CoE would still appear to be intact, BUT, if 
we can optimize the popping out of existence within some object, and it happens 
often enough, then it would be possible to violate CoE within that object.

Jones just opened a can of worms... and the feast begins!
:-)
-Mark
_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:29 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)


-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com 

> They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. 

This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the 
time, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do you 
know of any other reports of anomalous cooling?

> Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can 
> simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the 
> atmosphere. 

Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true. But 
in that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. 

IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why mention 
it? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose of 
the posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of 
fractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net 
cooling instead of heating. 

The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this 
disappearing act, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can 
possibly do the same. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a 
remote possibility.

When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I meant 
was that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen to 
virtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills' 
hydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137 
steps. 

After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time - 
with which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation. 
Maybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot disqualify 
it easily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos 
operating in only one way) makes it not possible ☺ simply because Mills himself 
may have overlooked another feature of a broader phenomena.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Terry Blanton]

Seems to me the "Sea of Negative Energy" must be involved and
Feynman's Nobel might be revoked.

T

RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com 

> They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. 

This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the
time, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do
you know of any other reports of anomalous cooling?

> Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can
simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the
atmosphere. 

Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true.
But in that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. 

IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why
mention it? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The
purpose of the posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new
kind of fractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very
different. Net cooling instead of heating. 

The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this
disappearing act, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can
possibly do the same. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than
a remote possibility.

When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I
meant was that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic
hydrogen to virtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike
the Mills' hydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs
in up to 137 steps. 

After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time
- with which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond
explanation. Maybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one
cannot disqualify it easily by suggesting that another unproved presumption
(Mills hydrinos operating in only one way) makes it not possible :-) simply
because Mills himself may have overlooked another feature of a broader
phenomena.

Jones
<>

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[David Roberson]

Perhaps the neutrons are captured in some manner and allowed to decay into 
proton, electron, and an electron antineutrino.  The antineutrino would easily 
escape the system carrying away mass and energy.

The total kinetic energy associated with the neutron in the test system would 
be reduced by that carried away.  Temperature is a measure of kinetic energy.

A lot depends upon the magnitude of energy that is carried away by the 
antineutrino.  If it carries away all of the energy required to make a neutron 
from the parts, then this process might explain the loss of heat.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 8:01 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)



Original Message-
rom: mix...@bigpond.com 
Why would Hydrinos be any more likely to interact with another dimension
han
rdinary matter?

i Robin,
Why would neutrons? This is all based on the speculative paper cited.
The paper apparently does not go into much detail on an underlying
ationale, and neither did I. 
But if neutrons would disappear from 3-space via some kind of oscillation
neutrino-like), then maximally reduced hydrinos could possibly do the same.
The cooling seen is not chemical (endothermic) so it is hard to explain
therwise.
Jones

[Vo]:FOXP2

[Terry Blanton]

Is this why we speak?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXP2

RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com 

Why would Hydrinos be any more likely to interact with another dimension
than
ordinary matter?


Hi Robin,

Why would neutrons? This is all based on the speculative paper cited.

The paper apparently does not go into much detail on an underlying
rationale, and neither did I. 

But if neutrons would disappear from 3-space via some kind of oscillation
(neutrino-like), then maximally reduced hydrinos could possibly do the same.

The cooling seen is not chemical (endothermic) so it is hard to explain
otherwise.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>E=mc^2 works both ways, apparently - and when mass "disappears" - in a
>dimensional sense, so does the corresponding energy it contained. This is
>seen as heat removal from a hot reactor. The active species does not have to
>be 'mirror matter' as in the original article - but if that helps in
>appreciating the view through Alice's 'looking glass' - good! ... it is kind
>of catchy, so let's keep it.
>
Why would Hydrinos be any more likely to interact with another dimension than
ordinary matter?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Essentially, what I think happens with nano-titanium cooling is that the
>nanoparticles - which are a strong Mills' catalyst - collapse to the full
>redundancy in one continuous step - where there is both heat release on
>shrinkage, followed immediately by massive heat loss. on the atomic level,
>when the hydrino essentially disappears into reciprocal space. The net
>result is active cooling. Why it only happens with titanium needs to be
>answered. Perhaps it is a momentum effect of some kind.

They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. Hydrino molecules can quite
easily disappear into ordinary space. They can simply migrate through the atomic
interstices of the container wall into the atmosphere. ;-)

However the energy lost in this manner is never going to be more than a few meV
(milli-eV)/ molecule (i.e. normal thermal kinetic energy), and could in no way
compensate for the energy of formation (at least 10's of eV / molecule).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>The interesting part (for this thread) is that with Titanium nanopowder,
>instead of a temperature inversion indicating gain, you get an anomalous
>"sink." For instance, instead of an expected 10 degree drop (out-to-in) the
>spread can be much higher, an order of magnitude perhaps, indicating "active
>cooling". 

Perhaps an endothermic chemical reaction?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>The current is kept absolutely
>constant to the heater, so that there is no variation on P-in during the
>run. 

Resistance heaters usually have a resistance that is temperature dependant (at
least to some degree), so a constant current doesn't necessarily imply constant
power.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:OT: OFF TOPIC topics, a personal opinion on the matter

[OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

>From Jed:

 

> Hence the title: "OFF TOPIC . . ." This marks subjects which are:

> 

> * Not connected to LENR/CF

> 

> * Yet which are of general interest

> 

> * Are not controversial, so they need not go to Vortex-BL

 

IMO "controversial" seems to be Vortex's middle name.

 

I have also occasionally posted "OFF TOPIC" discussions such as my thoughts
on the Alien Abduction paradigm (which BTW garnered a huge amount of
discussion) as well as, more recently, Wisconsin Politics. Personally, I
think what has been happening in the state I have been living in since 1967
ought to be of concern to many who participate in Vortex. One of the reasons
I've brought Mr. Walker up for discussion is that fact that the growing
conservative movement that is definitely flexing its muscles in Wisconsin
does not seem to be particularly enamored with alternative energy plans.
That ought to concern many.

 

http://host.madison.com/ct/business/article_3e5fc2dc-2f0c-11e0-8e33-001cc4c0
02e0.html

 

 

It's not surprising that we were not able to recall the conservative
republican "rock star" Walker considering the fact that the Walker campaign
was legally able to outspend his opponent, Tom Barrett, by an obscene
amount:

 

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/05/154368815/in-fundraising-walker-had-a-governor
s-advantage

 

On the positive side, however, Wisconsin was able to replace a republican
state senator with a democratic leaning senator. By doing so democrats
establish a thin majority in the senate house that will not immediately
kowtow to every whim Walker (and Walker's financial backers) dictate. There
will actually have to be some negotiation and compromise from now on - which
is all that the opposition had wanted in the first place. Negotiation &
compromise.

 

Alas, many thought I should have taken Wisconsin politics to VoB. I refused
to do so primarily because I thought it deserved better respect than to be
thrown into the pit of acrimony and spite, where
he-who-shall-remain-nameless resides. In any case many have thanked me for
my contributions. Other's, the opposite.

 

You can't please everybody

 

Regards,

Steven Vincent Johnson

www.OrionWorks.com

www.zazzle.com/orionworks

 

 

RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)

[Jones Beene]

It is easy to go over the top with dramatization on this one.

This scenario does not need to involve parallel universes (in the SciFi
sense) nor anything theological. In fact, Dirac's "reciprocal space" works
fine - as the "repository" for deep hydrinos, and with no other fictional
"baggage" so to speak.

BTW - for those who do not grasp what actually happened in the EPRI reports,
here is a short synopsis of Ahern's experiments. First, there is a well
insulated reactor with numerous RTDs for accurate temperature measurement.
The reactor is filled with pressurized hydrogen and various sample
nanopowders - including an inert control powder. There is a resistance
heater, drawing in the tens of watts. The current is kept absolutely
constant to the heater, so that there is no variation on P-in during the
run. 

With the 'control', you will find from datalogging that a specific rate of
thermal transfer occurs between the outer RTD, where the heater is located
and the inner. Hydrogen under pressure is a good conductor of heat so this
is normally only a few degrees. For example, in the control setup (no active
powder) one might see 350C on the outside and 340C on the inside. The
difference is minimal and never varies.

OK - when one switches from the control to active nanopowder, things get
interesting and if there is excess energy from the interaction of hydrogen
with the powder, there will be an "inversion", so that the inner RTD becomes
hotter - often much hotter than the outer. That happens with nano-nickel,
and the resulting temperature can be close to 100 degrees inverted. This is
NOT calorimetry, but there are implications to be firmed up on further
experimentation.

The interesting part (for this thread) is that with Titanium nanopowder,
instead of a temperature inversion indicating gain, you get an anomalous
"sink." For instance, instead of an expected 10 degree drop (out-to-in) the
spread can be much higher, an order of magnitude perhaps, indicating "active
cooling". 

Any round numbers above are for illustration purposes only; but the results
are shocking and significant in both anomalies - heat and cooling. And guess
what, the cooling anomaly could be almost as important as the heating, in
terms of new physics. 

EVEN IF THERE IS NO PATH TO COMERCIALIZATION - for an active cooling
anomaly, it could be important if it points the way to an accurate
understanding of the heat. That is where this is going.

I haven’t heard a better explanation for active nano-cooling than the
disappearance of matter from one spatial dimension into "reciprocal space."
This space may not be a true dimension, but a fractal instead. "Fractal" is
being used in the original way to mean a fractional dimension. Plus, the
matter which is lost may not be a neutron, per se, but instead a
maximum-redundant hydrino.

Essentially, what I think happens with nano-titanium cooling is that the
nanoparticles - which are a strong Mills' catalyst - collapse to the full
redundancy in one continuous step - where there is both heat release on
shrinkage, followed immediately by massive heat loss. on the atomic level,
when the hydrino essentially disappears into reciprocal space. The net
result is active cooling. Why it only happens with titanium needs to be
answered. Perhaps it is a momentum effect of some kind.

E=mc^2 works both ways, apparently - and when mass "disappears" - in a
dimensional sense, so does the corresponding energy it contained. This is
seen as heat removal from a hot reactor. The active species does not have to
be 'mirror matter' as in the original article - but if that helps in
appreciating the view through Alice's 'looking glass' - good! ... it is kind
of catchy, so let's keep it.

Jones


-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder 

The mystery of the eternal is now nothing more than CoE.

> Good find - and the implications are a bit convoluted. The curious thing
is
> that mirror matter neutrons (or deep hydrinos) will explain anomalous heat
> loss quite nicely.
>
> As you may remember, Ahern reported that some of his Arata-style samples
> demonstrated anomalous heat LOSS (more of the samples show gain than loss,
> and only a few showed nothing).
>
> This paper, in fact - could explain anomalous heat loss better than
anything
> I have seen thus far.
>
> BTW the all of the nanopowder samples which showed thermal loss were made
of
> nano-titanium embedded in zirconia. All of the nickel and palladium
samples
> showed gain.
>
> Jones


>> Neutrons escaping to a parallel world?


>> In a paper recently published in EPJ C¹, researchers hypothesised the
>> existence of mirror particles to explain the anomalous loss of
>> neutrons observed experimentally. The existence of such mirror matter
>> had been suggested in various scientific contexts some time ago,
>> including the search for suitable dark matter candidates.


>> http://phys.org/news/2012-06-neutrons-parallel-world.html
>>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons

[Harry Veeder]

The mystery of the eternal is now nothing more than CoE.


Harry

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
> Good find - and the implications are a bit convoluted. The curious thing is
> that mirror matter neutrons (or deep hydrinos) will explain anomalous heat
> loss quite nicely.
>
> As you may remember, Ahern reported that some of his Arata-style samples
> demonstrated anomalous heat LOSS (more of the samples show gain than loss,
> and only a few showed nothing).
>
> This paper, in fact - could explain anomalous heat loss better than anything
> I have seen thus far.
>
> BTW the all of the nanopowder samples which showed thermal loss were made of
> nano-titanium embedded in zirconia. All of the nickel and palladium samples
> showed gain.
>
> Jones
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Harry Veeder
>
> What drives such theory making is the need to uphold CoE.
> Harry
>
>> Neutrons escaping to a parallel world?
>>
>> In a paper recently published in EPJ C¹, researchers hypothesised the
>> existence of mirror particles to explain the anomalous loss of
>> neutrons observed experimentally. The existence of such mirror matter
>> had been suggested in various scientific contexts some time ago,
>> including the search for suitable dark matter candidates.
>>
>>
>> http://phys.org/news/2012-06-neutrons-parallel-world.html
>>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC A 9-year-old girl changes national food policy with a blog

[Jed Rothwell]

Guenter Wildgruber  wrote:

>
> as much as I admire that girl, but I cannot see the connection to LENR/CF.
>

Hence the title: "OFF TOPIC . . ." This marks subjects which are:

* Not connected to LENR/CF

* Yet which are of general interest

* Are not controversial, so they need not go to Vortex-BL

- Jed

RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:FYI: ZPF-inertia work applied to subatomic particles; spatial harmonic resonances

[Roarty, Francis X]

Hi Mark,
Clarification please, you wrote:
"...such that  the effects of the equal and opposite zones are prevented from 
cancelling..."
R U referring here to a polarization of the vacuum as well, creating a dipole 
of some sort?
Not a dipole but rather an accumulation and segregation of like "spacetime 
micro-curvature effects'" into regions bounded by the lattice geometry or in 
the extreme the Casimir cavity where I posit the concentrated suppression 
inside the cavity must be balanced by a shallow compression distributed across 
the exterior plate surfaces where the area -intensity  products are equal. Gas 
atoms exposed equally to both regions might cancel the effects but I suspect 
that nature and geometry cause gas atoms to be exposed in a biased manner that 
leads to anomalies.

And this:
"It's all about the segregation of these 'spacetime micro-curvature effects' 
mentioned by Nickisch and Mollere."
I think these spacetime micro crvatures are a mesoscopic example of the 
wormholes theorized to exist at the quantum foam scale but brought  up to this 
scale by interaction with the lattice that organizes and segregates them into 
repeating space-time regions that vary with geometry based on suppression -  to 
some extent there is a casimir force holding bulk metals and powders together 
in layers even when solid the "suppression"  is there holding the bulk together 
even if the "layers" are real or just imaginary. So it's not electrical dipoles 
but you have polarization of the suppression levels wherever the isotropy is 
broken - lattices or more so in Casimir cavities. It may lead to the dipole 
effects you mention later when h+ is introduced to this lattice environment ... 
we are all beating in the same bushes but when you start exchanging space and 
time the effect on mass and other metrics starts to become gibberish / 
conflictive..you almost need to state your perspective in front of every metric 
or someone will come along and show you to be wrong from their perspective... 
inertia , equivalence, time dilation and rydberg matter may all be just a 
matter of perspective from different suppression levels.
Regards

Fran

From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 2:20 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:FYI: ZPF-inertia work applied to subatomic 
particles; spatial harmonic resonances

Hi Fran...

What I like about their work, especially the recent stuff, is that it is based 
on a physical model.. a physical reality, and not just abstract math.

Clarification please, you wrote:
"...such that  the effects of the equal and opposite zones are prevented from 
cancelling..."
R U referring here to a polarization of the vacuum as well, creating a dipole 
of some sort?

And this:
"It's all about the segregation of these 'spacetime micro-curvature effects' 
mentioned by Nickisch and Mollere."

Again, segregation would imply a separation or concentration of 
 into a nonhomogenous state, at least at a 
microscopic/nanoscopic level.  In my visual model, this separation then sets up 
local 'fields' which impart forces onto subatomic particles.  At a large scale 
these fields manifest as the electric and magnetic fields.  Again, I feel 
strongly that we could easily come up with better models if we started from 
scratch and only considered models which i ncorporated some physical reality to 
them...

I recently posted a msg to the Collective on just such a model which is very 
similar to mine, but which has been developed and more importantly described, 
to a much greater extent.  It is still basically a qualitative model, but at 
least it explains numerous phenomena with a logical physical model; physical 
entities:
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg66212.html

http://cordus.wordpress.com/

For you theoretical types, I think it's worth the read...

-Mark

From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:23 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:FYI: ZPF-inertia work applied to subatomic particles; spatial 
harmonic resonances

Mark,
Nice  choice of citations,  I believe Haisch and Rueda  got it 
right but the connection drawn by Nickisch and Mollere (2002):  zero-point 
fluctuations give rise to spacetime micro-curvature effects yielding the origin 
of inertia  could, in fact should  have gone further I think the wormholes 
described at the quantum foam level can be responsible for most of the 
anomalous claims we are discussing on vortex, from superconductivity to 
modification of decay rates, Casimir effect and unexplained spectrum shifts.  
What we call isotropic space time is only a macro effect that can actually be 
segregated to different levels by matter and geometry - not giving anything for 
nothing but isolating equal and opposing regions of space time that average out 
to what we consider isotropic -   the Nature paper indica

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC A 9-year-old girl changes national food policy with a blog

[Guenter Wildgruber]

an addition
to the OFF-topic:

Quite often our discontent first shows itself -to us'-as an emotion. 
Something IS wrong.
Now our rational self is searching what that can be, and figments a possible
cause and a possible solution.

In the case of the girl the first impulse was clearly emotional: disgust, then
ping-ponged into the rational:
Justification and defense, which are rational faculties.
Employing 'logic'.
Then the celebrity-cook stepped in.
Then the administration forbade.
Then the public went against.
Then the administration ( as a holder of societal  'logic') retreated.

This is a peculiar sort of Hegelian dialectics between brain-hemispheres, which
Hegel has not been aware of, because this interplay was not discovered yet,
because Hegel believed that this interplay is 'rational' on both sides, which
it is not.

This asymmetry is  caused by evolution, i.e. 'emotion' is a long-term 
genetically coded
issue, whereas the rational side, as a supervisor, is a quite recent
development of evolution, and aims at the short term for corrections, at least
in its current embodiment, which we have to overcome, it seems.

Sorry for the -ahem- philosophical interlude.

Guenther

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC A 9-year-old girl changes national food policy with a blog

[Guenter Wildgruber]

Jed,
as much as I admire that girl, but I cannot see the connection to LENR/CF.

Her reaction is visceral/right-brained, and justified as such:
...
Broad generalizations are often made in popular psychology about one side or 
the other having characteristic labels such as "logical" for the left side or 
"creative" for the right.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function

Am unsure how LENR fits into that scheme.

Guenther



 Von: Jed Rothwell 
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 4:05 Samstag, 16.Juni 2012
Betreff: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC A 9-year-old girl changes national food policy with a 
blog
 

This could only happen in the Internet Age:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/06/neverseconds-shut-down/

More power to her. I wish the cold fusion researchers were 0.1% as media savvy 
as she is.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Possible news on Defkalion GT

[Guenter Wildgruber]

20120616  11:49

Akira,
Sterling Allan sometimes reminds me of a -blind- hen picking randomly in all 
sorts of directions.

You never know.


See eg here:
http://pesn.com/2012/06/13/9602109_Fuelsaver--Battle_with_the_lobbies/

This is such a standard scam that one wonders.
Very often the scammers believe their own figments.
The power of belief going wild.
Obviously S.A. has no idea what the TUEV certifies:
Safety, NOT the claim itself.
Eg stated here, which basically applies to all certification-bodies: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_certification

...A product might be verified to comply with a specification or stamped with a 
specification number. This does not, by itself, indicate that the item is fit 
for any particular use. ...

This is a trap Allan does not seem to be aware of.
Safety (as testified eg by UL, as claimed in Rossi's case, does NOT imply 
proper function )

Most easily a placebo can be certified as 'safe'.

It is a pity that those cannot be patented anymore.


To Allan's defense I would say that he still seems to have some residual 
critical mind, which weeds out the most absurd claims.
At times, at least.

Guenther


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hello group,

I was skimming through several recent links on LENR-related news entries/blog 
posts, when I found this on PESN:

http://pesn.com/2012/06/06/9602103_Why_doesnt_Utah_media_cover_latest_cold_fusion_developments/

I'm referring to this excerpt in particular:

> Exhibit 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>