Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Daniel Rocha]

I am not doing an analogy at all. I am just talking about logic  If A has
something in common with B, it does not follow that A=B.

I hope this issue of redistribution does not affect your personal life.
It's something really trivial to understand and it is behind basic human
relationships, like compassion and charity. If you cannot see in that way,
your mind must be full of paranoia and you should seek a professional
counseling.

2012/10/7 Jojo Jaro 

> **
> You say this with such hutzpah and authority as if this analogy were
> really appropriate.
>
> You analogy is faulty and I reject it.  It does not even follow basic
> logical reasoning at all.
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Jojo Jaro]

You say this with such hutzpah and authority as if this analogy were really 
appropriate.

You analogy is faulty and I reject it.  It does not even follow basic logical 
reasoning at all.


Just to be clear, Income Redistribution is NOT a subset of Communism, as you 
claim with your analogy.  

NO.  Income Redistribution is Communism and vice-versa..  

Only those who would like to soften the horror of communism would claim so, 
which goes back to my original contention.  Communist adherrents like you would 
have to resort to deceptive terms like this to make communism appealing.

"No, No, Income Redistribution is not communism, it is just a "part" of 
communism"

What a load of highly-enriched weapons-grade balonium. 



Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Daniel Rocha 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 11:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized


  This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but not 
all flying species are eagles. 


  2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro 

 Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in 
communism.  




  -- 
  Daniel Rocha - RJ
  danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Jojo Jaro]

Lies, Lies, Lies and statistics.

One can use any statistic to prop up any lie one wants, as you have 
demonstrated here.

Baloney. 

Even if your contention were true (which I highly question).   The 1950's and 
1960's where by no means the golden age of the American Economy as you contend.

What about the progress under Reagan or even under Clinton.  They occured under 
lower tax burdens, contrary to your contention.  In fact, the fastest economic 
growth occured under low tax burdens for everyone.  

When will you learn that stealing from those with money and freely give them to 
lazy bums will not work.  If they did, Communists countries would be the most 
properous countries with the most vibrant middle class and highest quality of 
life.  The fact of the matter is, countries have tried your Income 
Redistribution ideas and have found them to be unworkable.  That is why, 
communist countries are the epitome of squalor.

I do not need to argue statistics and lies with you.  All I need to do is point 
out that those who have tried your ideas of Income Redistribution are playing 
3rd Fiddle to the U.S.- the most vibrant economy there is with the highest 
standard of living and best place to be.  When was the last time people were 
banging at doors to get into the Soviet Union, China, Cuba or North Korea.





"A+" for effort, try again.



Jojo




  - Original Message - 
  From: Jouni Valkonen 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2012 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized






  Daniel, the income redistribution at USA was at it's peak in 1950's and 
1960's when highest marginal tax rate for the rich people was 90%. Record high 
was 94% at 1940's. This golden era of keynesian redistribution saw highest 
prosperity increasing economic growth in history, because almost all of the 
economic growth went for the middle class. And where else it could even go, if 
the marginal tax rate for rich was 90%?


  Then there came Ronald Reagan that wanted to cut the taxes of rich, and the 
middle class of America is now dying. 90% of americans must be really lazy as 
their annual incomes has not increased even for one dollar during the past 30 
years! The tax rate of the rich has fallen from 90% to 15 % and below.


  —Jouni


  Sent from my iPad

  On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:


This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but 
not all flying species are eagles. 


2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro 

   Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in 
communism.  




-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

DC - DC EM induction? Re: [Vo]:Relativistic magnetic field

[John Berry]

I have been thinking about this a bit more.

I have been doing more analysis, I have concluded that if the velocity of a
charge is doubled the effective magnetic force it creates is quadrupled.
I am very clear that this is so.
Furthermore by doing a complete analysis I found that while this is so, if
you have the previously mentioned coil with a thin and fat wire in series
creating equal and opposite ampere turns you can't generate any field
besides a slight motional E-field that would not be varied by velocity.
I also established that rotating a coil as would occur with the rotor
winding on an alternator would not lead to any change, I actually wrote
this up to work it out but no one wants to read paragraphs about how Ampere
was right after all.

I also tried other ideas such as charged wires but that made no difference.
However drift velocity does have a real effect on the voltage generated by
a homo-polar generator.
And so naturally does the movement along the wire which is how a homopolar
generator works.

Anyway I have come up with a very interesting idea!
When electrons change velocity, that change in velocity propagates in their
electric field as a bend, a distortion, this bending predicts precisely the
EMF that a time varying current creates.
If you had wire that changed wire thickness and hence electron velocity in
sections you should get a constant bend in the electric field outside those
locations.

This could be increased by having a multi turn coil that has thick wire
sections laid over other thick sections and thin sections laid over other
thin sections and critically having the transition locations laid over one
another.
This could increase it quite well, then it may also be possible to collect
this emf in hopefully a multi-turn coil.

This is as far as I am aware totally unrecognised, and yet
an entirely plausible way to create a DC induction from a DC current with
no moving parts or interconnections.
However it could be likened possibly to a thermocouple, wonder if such a
change in thickness could act like a Peliter junction?

This seems like a test worth trying!

BTW one option could theoretically be to take a multiturn coil of constant
thickness and apply a magnetic field so as to create zones slowed by the
Hall effect increasing resistance in those sections, this could still
produce such an EMF although it would not be ideal.

John

On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Harvey Norris  wrote:

> Perhaps the best issue to be noted is the spinning electromagnet
> manifested as a field of a car alternator. No where do I see it mentioned,
> except in my own research: that there is a correct direction for the DC
> field currents to be in harmony with the rotation. This only stands to be
> common sense where it comes to drift velocity, for the field rotation and
> its current to be delivered from non moving slip ring contacts; one method
> will deliver current in agreement with the drift velocity direction, while
> the other will detract from it showing as a reduced stator voltage. There
> are numerable proofs that counter the remanent magnetism and parametric
> case as the cause for power output without field energization. Here is some
> further scribbling of notes never sent when this subject last came up
>
> Once when I was more naive I thought about the magnetic field surrounding
> a wire broken by a capacitor coupling device.  As I visualized the magnetic
> field due to the current, I began to think that there must be a gap or
> discontinuity since no real current is flowing within the capacitor.
> Between the plates there is only an electric field that is changing as
> charge is being added or subtracted from the plates of the capacitor.
> Now I will explain something that NO ONE has ever answered!
> It even bothers the theorists who explain it away as a heating loss of
> wires or something. Or they say it was lost as the magnetic field around
> the wires connecting the parts. The big dummies never even considered that
> it was lost as the magnetic field movement around the capacitor itself!
> Thus they have not thought to put in special collectors of this lost
> energy; and then reconvert that lost energy back into another capacitor.
> Let me know if you think this can be done.
>
> I have two equal C values. I charge one up and find the joules of energy
> contained in it. Now I take the other unused C value and allow one to
> charge up the other to equilibrium. Now I compare the total amount of
> energy contained in both parts and find only half the original amount of
> energy!  Where did the missing energy go to? CAN I MAKE AN ARRANGEMENT
> WHEREBY MORE THEN HALF THE ENERGY MAY BE SHARED BY BOTH OF THE CAPACITORS?
>
> 2009 Flux Capacitor Model
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/4138926072/
> This shows both an inductor and a water capacitor that will have the same
> reactance at alternator frequency of 465 hz. Bigger things make possible
> what is not feasible using smaller component

Re: [Vo]:Relativistic magnetic field

[David Roberson]

>Perhaps the best issue to be noted is the spinning electromagnet manifested as 
>a field of a car alternator. No where do I see it mentioned, except in my own 
>research: that there is a correct direction for the DC field currents to be in 
>harmony with the rotation. This only stands to be common sense where it comes 
>to drift velocity, for the field rotation and its current to be delivered from 
>non moving slip ring contacts; one method will deliver current in agreement 
>with the drift velocity direction, while the other will detract from it 
>showing as a reduced stator voltage. There are numerable proofs that counter 
>the remanent magnetism and parametric case as the cause for power output 
>without field energization. Here is some further scribbling of notes never 
>sent when this subject last came up

Once when I was more naive I thought about the magnetic field surrounding a 
wire broken by a capacitor coupling device.  As I visualized the magnetic field 
due to the current, I began to think that there must be a gap or discontinuity 
since no real current is flowing within the capacitor.  Between the plates 
there is only an electric field that is changing as charge is being added or 
subtracted from the plates of the capacitor.
Now I will explain something that NO ONE has ever answered!
It even bothers the theorists who explain it away as a heating loss of wires or 
something. Or they say it was lost as the magnetic field around the wires 
connecting the parts. The big dummies never even considered that it was lost as 
the magnetic field movement around the capacitor itself!  Thus they have not 
thought to put in special collectors of this lost energy; and then reconvert 
that lost energy back into another capacitor. Let me know if you think this can 
be done.

I have two equal C values. I charge one up and find the joules of energy 
contained in it. Now I take the other unused C value and allow one to charge up 
the other to equilibrium. Now I compare the total amount of energy contained in 
both parts and find only half the original amount of energy!  Where did the 
missing energy go to? CAN I MAKE AN ARRANGEMENT WHEREBY MORE THEN HALF THE 
ENERGY MAY BE SHARED BY BOTH OF THE CAPACITORS?<





Take a relatively large inductor and place it in series with the second 
capacitor.  This added inductor augments the already existing built in 
inductance due to the construction of the capacitors and the distance required 
to complete the connection.  If the total inductance exhibits a low value of 
series resistance at the resonant frequency (high Q) then an oscillatory 
current will flow within the loop at that frequency.  You will observe that 
energy is stored within the inductor as 1/2*L*I*I as well as within the 
capacitors in the form of 1/2*C*V*V.  The instantaneous energy stored in the 
three components will be equal to the original amount in the one capacitor 
minus energy lost within the equivalent series resistance in the form of heat.


An oscillation will continue to appear within the series resonant circuit until 
all of the missing energy is lost within the resistor.  Once things settle down 
the voltage will be one half of the original value across both capacitors.


If you reduce the net series inductance then the losses associated with the 
series resonance will quickly absorb the energy as the frequency of oscillation 
increases.  You will find that some of the energy is radiated into space by the 
loop and the amount radiated is strongly related to the net resonant frequency 
of the system.


I would think that you could build a system where most of the energy is 
absorbed by the two capacitors if a careful arrangement of inductors and diodes 
is chosen as long as you did not demand excellent balance between the capacitor 
voltages.  The initial energy not lost in the series resistances as heat or 
radiated will be stored within the two capacitors after sufficient time has 
elapsed.


Dave

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Daniel Rocha]

Aren't you mistaking me for JoJo?

2012/10/7 Jouni Valkonen 

>
>
> Daniel, the income redistribution at USA was at it's peak in 1950's and
> 1960's when highest marginal tax rate for the rich people was 90%. Record
> high was 94% at 1940's. This golden era of keynesian redistribution saw
> highest prosperity increasing economic growth in history, because almost
> all of the economic growth went for the middle class. And where else it
> could even go, if the marginal tax rate for rich was 90%?
>
> Then there came Ronald Reagan that wanted to cut the taxes of rich, and
> the middle class of America is now dying. 90% of americans must be really
> lazy as their annual incomes has not increased even for one dollar during
> the past 30 years! The tax rate of the rich has fallen from 90% to 15 % and
> below.
>
> —Jouni
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:
>
> This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but
> not all flying species are eagles.
>
> 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro 
>
>>  Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in
>> communism.
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Jouni Valkonen]

Daniel, the income redistribution at USA was at it's peak in 1950's and 1960's 
when highest marginal tax rate for the rich people was 90%. Record high was 94% 
at 1940's. This golden era of keynesian redistribution saw highest prosperity 
increasing economic growth in history, because almost all of the economic 
growth went for the middle class. And where else it could even go, if the 
marginal tax rate for rich was 90%?

Then there came Ronald Reagan that wanted to cut the taxes of rich, and the 
middle class of America is now dying. 90% of americans must be really lazy as 
their annual incomes has not increased even for one dollar during the past 30 
years! The tax rate of the rich has fallen from 90% to 15 % and below.

―Jouni


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but not 
> all flying species are eagles. 
> 
> 2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro 
>>  Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in 
>> communism.  
> 
> 
> -- 
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
> 

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Daniel Rocha]

This really doesn't make sense. All eagle species are flying species, but
not all flying species are eagles.

2012/10/6 Jojo Jaro 

>  Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a quintessential philosophy in
> communism.



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Jojo Jaro]

A Funny thing always happens in discussions about communism and its 
associated philosophies, like Socialism, Social Justice, Social Security and 
Income Redistribution, Income Equality and the like.  Advocates of such a 
philosphy always couch their arguments in apologetic, deceptive and covert 
terms to make the philosophy appeal to more people.  Such is the attempt of 
Harry below.  He attempts to call Income Redistribution as "NOTHING like 
this. (Communism)".  Well, in fact, Income Redistribution is a 
quintessential philosophy in communism.  Every day people recognize it as 
such, while communist advocates deny it all day long hoping their readers 
are gullible.


Why do communists adherrents do this?

The answer is simple.  Communistic philosophies are so repulsive and 
incompatible to human nature that ALL people naturally recoil from it.  The 
only way communism is imposed on people is thru deception and force.  Has 
there ever been a people or country under communist rule that would not want 
to free itself from it.  Peter Gluck is a perfect example of how free 
thinking people always despise communism.  And his is an example of billions 
more.


Communism is a discredited and retrograde philosophy.  And its tenets are 
always oppressive and unfair that people normally balk from it. No free 
thinking person would naturally cleave to communism.


Yet, we have our resident moron and lazy bum from Wisconsin wanting to 
implement Income Redistribution so that he may have some "discretionary" 
income.  Notice what he said:




"a modern economy cannot flourish unless the middle class can secure 
sufficient discretionary "income" in which to purchase goods and services 
that in-turn are mostly created by the working class."



In other words, he wants money he did not work for so that he can spend it 
on stuff he does not need (discretionary).  I don't know about you, but I 
call that "LAZY".


Well, I have news for the LAZY bum in Wisconsin.  This modern society of 
America HAS flourished without income redistribution.  In fact, it is now 
floundering because lazy bums like you have this "entitlement" mentality 
that you need money for discretionary spending.


Unblelievable how you can say this with a straight face and pretend you are 
not a communist.


There is nothing more abhorent in this world than liars, communists, 
socialist, liberals and lazy bums.  And you my friend are all of these.



Jojo






- Original Message - 
From: "Harry Veeder" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized



Dictatorial Communism allocated resources through the control of
prices and production.
Calls for the redistribution income in a free market system is nothing
like this.
Harry



On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

The Internet also say so- see for example:
https://www.technologyreview.com/emtech/12/

received this morning, one suggestion from many that technological 
progress

COULD contribute to
the solving of Humanity's great problems.
I am just working on a blog publication about
effectiveness and efficiency- in two parts- 1- about the dark side of 
these

concepts and 2- about efficiency of/in cold fusion/LENR research.
Only commercial LENR could contribute to
problem solving- something much better than combustion, fission, wind and
solar energy -and
the efforts/results ratio was very small till now.
LENR per se is wicked problem.

Peter

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
 wrote:


> I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of
> nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies 
> to
> both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education 
> and
> have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense 
> difference

> between social theories and social practice so
> I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution.
> It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing
> the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce.
> The social problems are very wicked everywhere.

Peter,

You have accumulated far more first-hand experience than I have
assembled within my 60 years of life. I am not in a position to
challenge what you had to endure either, nor do I want to. I'm glad
you survived in order to tell us all what you experienced.

Perhaps I error on this point but I will assume that some Vorts may
have come to the conclusion that I must be some kind of a communist at
heart. Jojo certainly seems to have labeled me as such, along with a
few other derogatory terms. But no matter. FWIW, I continue perceive
myself as a capitalist at heart. In my view, those who work harder,
those who continue to innovate and bring improvements into the
everyday lives of others should be rewarded. I suspect capitalism,
flawed it may be, is probably better at compensating such individuals
than any oth

Re: [Vo]:CR39

[zer tte]

Hi Axil,


http://www.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/getdoc/slac-pub-5655.pdf
Samples are chemically etched then tracks are counted using a microscope.
I guess it'll be hard to find a guide for dummies.

Cheers.





>
> From: Axil Axil 
>To: vortex-l  
>Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 11:42 PM
>Subject: [Vo]:CR39
> 
>
>Has anyone run across a “how to use CR39 for dummies” type
document or as an alternitve, a experimental procedure describing in detail the
use CR39 to test for neutrons.   
>   
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

[Eric Walker]

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FIrjnrTYofc
>
>
>
> Russ tries helium in video 12.
>

Unlike in the last video, the work being done in this one seems fairly
significant.  Later in the video the assembly is weighed at 70 pounds, and
earlier on you can see the rapid firing of the piston causing the whole
thing to visibly shake.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:CR39

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 6 Oct 2012 17:42:14 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
> Has anyone run across a “how to use CR39 for dummies” type document or as
>an alternitve, a experimental procedure describing in detail the use CR39
>to test for neutrons.

AFAIK fast neutrons are detected by the fact that they occasionally break a C12
nucleus into 3 alpha particles. It is the three alpha particles that produce
three cone shaped tracks in the CR39, with a common origin. Note that only
charged particles create tracks, because the tracks are formed from chemical
changes in the CR39 caused by the CR39 molecules being ionized, and only
energetic photons and charged particles cause ionization (not neutral
particles).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:CR39

[Jed Rothwell]

CR39 is very hard to use. It is not for dummies or beginners. That's the
take home lesson I learned after listening to 2 days of discussion on CR32
by experts.

There is a reason people invented electronic particle detectors and stopped
using the analog ones such as CR39. A lot of reasons, actually.

I am not saying the old techniques are inferior, but they are harder. To
say they are inferior would be like saying that RTDs are better than
mercury thermometers. That is true in some ways but not so true in other
ways. It is complicated.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Progress from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project (Celani replication)

[Jed Rothwell]

Akira Shirakawa  wrote:

A recent video of their labs and current progress (HD Quality):
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=26k3Cz3wW-8
>
>  Witness HUG making preparations for New Fire replication apparatus.
>>
>
I LOVE this!

Look at the people in this video! This probably doubles the number of
active researchers in U.S., and lowers the average age by about 30 years.

These are just the kind of people we need. They are in Minnesota. Just the
kind of place we need them. Far from the PPPL!

Remember: the Industrial Revolution was invented in Edinburgh not London.
Airplanes were invented in Dayton, not New York. Progress comes from the
periphery.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

[Axil Axil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FIrjnrTYofc



Russ tries helium in video 12.



Cheers:Axil



On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction,  it may be
> possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.
>
> Here is my reasoning:
>
> When the spark fires, a shock wave will form, expand, and travel down the
> length of the tube. This wave is comprised of a shockwave front of both
> electrons and ions. The electrons will move down the tube far faster than
> the positive protons because they are 2000 times lighter.
>
> This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of the
> tube parallel to its length.
>
> This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be
> emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the
> direction of shockwave travel.
>
> The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be
> oriented parallel to it.
>
> A network of a large number of thin copper wires can be arrayed along the
> length of the tube on its outside surface and parallel to its length
> direction, which also happens to be the direction of travel of the
> shockwave.
>
> The end of each element of this multi-wire mesh can then be connected at
> the ends of each of these equally long elements to a common connector at
> two opposing junctions just beyond each end of the tube.
>
> This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic
> flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified
> and stored in capacitors.
>
> This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power
> produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp
> engines.
>
> If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic
> flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without
> the need for any mechanical moving parts.
>
> Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field
> lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a
> shockwave will be both verified and quantified.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers:Axil
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder wrote:
>
>> Hi Vortex,
>>
>> Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas
>> that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?)
>> force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power
>> remains to be seen.
>>
>> http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor
>>
>>
>>
>> An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
>> yr old whiz named Russ.
>> He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
>> Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
>> I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
>> mixtures.
>>
>> http://rwgresearch.com/
>> https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
>> http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
>> Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at
>> 12 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.
>>
>>
>> Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_zWJNyoFgJM
>> Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a
>> bang...
>>
>>
>> Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains
>> 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2
>> included spark coils.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxk&feature=plcp
>>
>> Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the
>> potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running
>> without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of
>> the force, showing that compressed air is not used.
>> http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
>> https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u
>>
>> All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
>> lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.
>>
>> - Brad
>>
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:"Prize Fight"

[Harry Veeder]

Prize Fight

(audio interview)

http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/episode/2012/10/06/october-6-2012/#5

This coming week, the Nobel Prizes for 2012 will be announced at the
Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden. Achievements will be
recognized in scientific fields, including medicine, physics and
chemistry.  A Nobel Prize is prestigious; it brings fame and glory, a
place in history, and, of course, money.  But the new book, "Prize
Fight: The Race and the Rivalry to be the First in Science",
chronicles a darker side to the famous awards.  The author, Dr. Morton
Meyers, a Distinguished Professor of Radiology and Medicine at the
State University of New York, describes the painful battles and even
bitterly contested lawsuits behind some of the greatest Nobel-winning
achievements, including research into tuberculosis, AIDS and MRI
technology.



Harry

RE: [Vo]:Relativistic magnetic field

[Harvey Norris]

Perhaps the best issue to be noted is the spinning electromagnet 
manifested as a field of a car alternator. No where do I see it 
mentioned, except in my own research: that there is a correct direction 
for the DC field currents to be in harmony with the rotation. This only 
stands to be common sense where it comes to drift velocity, for the 
field rotation and its current to be delivered from non moving slip ring
 contacts; one method will deliver current in agreement with the drift 
velocity direction, while the other will detract from it showing as a 
reduced stator voltage. There are numerable proofs that counter the 
remanent magnetism and parametric case as the cause for power output without 
field energization. Here is some further scribbling of notes never sent when 
this subject last came up

Once when I was more naive I thought about the magnetic field surrounding a 
wire broken by a capacitor coupling device.  As I visualized the magnetic field 
due to the current, I began to think that there must be a gap or discontinuity 
since no real current is flowing within the capacitor.  Between the plates 
there is only an electric field that is changing as charge is being added or 
subtracted from the plates of the capacitor.
Now I will explain something that NO ONE has ever answered!
It even bothers the theorists who explain it away as a heating loss of wires or 
something. Or they say it was lost as the magnetic field around the wires 
connecting the parts. The big dummies never even considered that it was lost as 
the magnetic field movement around the capacitor itself!  Thus they have not 
thought to put in special collectors of this lost energy; and then reconvert 
that lost energy back into another capacitor. Let me know if you think this can 
be done.

I have two equal C values. I charge one up and find the joules of energy 
contained in it. Now I take the other unused C value and allow one to charge up 
the other to equilibrium. Now I compare the total amount of energy contained in 
both parts and find only half the original amount of energy!  Where did the 
missing energy go to? CAN I MAKE AN ARRANGEMENT WHEREBY MORE THEN HALF THE 
ENERGY MAY BE SHARED BY BOTH OF THE CAPACITORS?

2009 Flux Capacitor Model
http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/4138926072/
This shows both an inductor and a water capacitor that will have the same 
reactance at alternator frequency of 465 hz. Bigger things make possible what 
is not feasible using smaller components.
Separately Spaced Magnetic & Electric Fields 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/harvich/4138199465/

If we do the same sort of capacitor sharing of charge experiment with AC  at 
the resonant frequency instead of DC, we find that connecting a single plate of 
the two capacitors together will cause the sender cap to loose 11% of its 
charge, but in turn the remaining capacitor will be charged to 85% of the 
former caps full charge value. this is done merely by having one electric field 
change causing magnetic field change in the equation, and combining this with 
the weaker  mutual inductive sharing of the coils on a side by side basis.

What the theorists have failed to recognize in making this translation is that 
they have not put magnetic collectors or hugh inductors around two axial 
capacities. As one capacity charges the other one up to equilibrium, the two 
inductors could also charge up two more caps with a one way diode valve in the 
coil-cap pathway to prevent continuing recurring weaker oscillations
 
(On a changing magnetic field NOT causing a changing electric field by spatial 
vicinity: radio waves would not exist in a vacuum if a vacuum was supposed to 
prevent this from happening)
This of course is absolutely untrue and the best way to demonstrate the fact is 
to instead use an axial capacity. Put another similar size coil on top or 
around that axial capacity and look for the inductive effects of that axial 
capacity.  I will stretch this thought even further and have already 
demonstrated it in which I called it a magnifier principle. It is perfectly 
possible to demonstrate that using two identical
 coils that using your axial capacitive electric field case can result in a 
coil A inducing current on adjacent identical coil B, where coil B will contain 
more current then the sender coil A.
http://youtu.be/ho-SUqBTrpk
Video Records from 10/21/10: This video shows the fourth coil vibration 
used to show the flux capacitor principle being in excess of its source 
of vibration from the 3rd coil system that has its electric field's 
obtained from series resonance encased in the volume of the fourth extra
 coils magnetic field, where this MAGNIFICATION  of the vibration is 
shown once the neon load is removed. The sequence of adding the 
interphasal resonances is shown. At 8:26 in video ending we see that 1.86 ma 
from the sender causes 2.41 ma on the receiver.
http://youtu.be/FAc3jQziicc 

As you can see for this to happen the extra curr

Re: [Vo]:Progress from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project (Celani replication)

[Eric Walker]

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

This looks very promising.
>

I agree.  They seem capable.  Their technological goals appear to be fairly
specific and limited.  I get the sense that they are proceeding
systematically.  They have identified an interesting business niche, have
the necessary infrastructure and are seeking to make their design as
transparent as possible.  And their goal, which appears to be to get a test
kit out along the lines that have been discussed here in other connections,
could potentially stimulate further scientific and industrial research into
LENR if the kit can demonstrate a clear effect.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Harry Veeder]

Dictatorial Communism allocated resources through the control of
prices and production.
Calls for the redistribution income in a free market system is nothing
like this.
Harry



On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:
> The Internet also say so- see for example:
> https://www.technologyreview.com/emtech/12/
>
> received this morning, one suggestion from many that technological progress
> COULD contribute to
> the solving of Humanity's great problems.
> I am just working on a blog publication about
> effectiveness and efficiency- in two parts- 1- about the dark side of these
> concepts and 2- about efficiency of/in cold fusion/LENR research.
> Only commercial LENR could contribute to
> problem solving- something much better than combustion, fission, wind and
> solar energy -and
> the efforts/results ratio was very small till now.
> LENR per se is wicked problem.
>
> Peter
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:02 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
>  wrote:
>>
>> > I have the experience of 45 years of Communism and now 22 years of
>> > nascent capitalism. The Kaltwasser Doctrine (see on my blog) applies to
>> > both but Capitalism is definitelly better.if you like work,education and
>> > have good inititiatives. I have learned that it is an immense difference
>> > between social theories and social practice so
>> > I am more than skepticalregarding redistribution.
>> > It can be imagined a complex, slow, developing system for diminishing
>> > the Gini coefficients of a state but the resistance will be fierce.
>> > The social problems are very wicked everywhere.
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> You have accumulated far more first-hand experience than I have
>> assembled within my 60 years of life. I am not in a position to
>> challenge what you had to endure either, nor do I want to. I'm glad
>> you survived in order to tell us all what you experienced.
>>
>> Perhaps I error on this point but I will assume that some Vorts may
>> have come to the conclusion that I must be some kind of a communist at
>> heart. Jojo certainly seems to have labeled me as such, along with a
>> few other derogatory terms. But no matter. FWIW, I continue perceive
>> myself as a capitalist at heart. In my view, those who work harder,
>> those who continue to innovate and bring improvements into the
>> everyday lives of others should be rewarded. I suspect capitalism,
>> flawed it may be, is probably better at compensating such individuals
>> than any other system. It's imperative that Incentives and rewards be
>> in place.
>>
>> However...
>>
>> It's my suspicion that with ensuing advancements of technology,
>> automation and robotics, traditional capitalism as it is currently
>> practiced will have to evolve... perhaps radically. I personally
>> suspect that capitalism will eventually have to incorporate a number
>> of socialistic concepts into its fundamental core, particularly things
>> like universal health care. Capitalism, in turn, will have to improve
>> on many of these socialistic "rights". I think most capitalistic
>> societies will eventually come around to a realization that what used
>> to be considered privileged "benefits" that only the rich and well off
>> could afford should be perceived as universal rights that are to be
>> bestowed on all of its citizens. Such benefits would include
>> unemployment compensation that, if warranted, simultaneously
>> incorporates "free" job re-training. Eventually, free advanced
>> eduction should become another inevitable universal right as well.
>> However, I think such benefits will only be possible through the
>> continued advances of technology, automation and robotics.
>>
>> Regards
>> Steven Vincent Johnson
>> www.OrionWorks.com
>> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years

[James Bowery]

Ironically, the transition to a post-labor political economy I worked out
in a white paper 20 years ago
(1992)was
motivated by my
experience getting legislation drafted and signed into law that privatized
government technology
programs,
including the US fusion energy
program.
 Essentially the idea is to replace all government functions with market
functions that are supported by a citizen's dividend.  Critically, however,
that citizen's dividend must be funded by a net asset tax during the
transition.  This view resulted from my confronting not only the public
sector rent-seeking embodied in government programs -- centralizing power
in the public sector -- but the manifest capital market failure resulting
from private sector rent-seeking and the concomitant centralization of
wealth in the private sector without that sector taking on the risk of
technology development.  The political economy debate has been limited to
basically a choice between Keynesian school public-sector trickle-down
economics and Austrian school private-sector trickle-down economics.
 Neither one works -- especially in a post-labor economy.

Since that time, in addition to refining the operational definitions, I've
expanded the scope of that political economy to reformulate the fundamental
approach to human rights around the citizen's dividend so that rather than
voting in the ballot box, people vote with their feet to assortatively
migrate to live among those sharing their strongly held beliefs in causal
laws of human ecology (sociology).  This rescues the social sciences from
the quasi-theocratic morass in which it has wandered  by offering voluntary
controlled experiments to test strongly held beliefs in causal laws of
human ecology.

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Nigel Dyer  wrote:

> Is ancient China included as being part of the west?   A quick check of
> some basic history of ancient china seems to suggest that what I would
> consider to be the organisation of human labor was present going right back
> to the very earliest dynasties.
>
> However, I would tend to think that so many things have now changed so
> much, that we cannot simply assume that any economic system that was
> appropriate in the past is necessarily right for the future.
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
> On 06/10/2012 10:44, Guenter Wildgruber wrote:
>
>> 
>> Well.
>>
>> I'd like to comment on this a bit:
>> 1) any economic system is embedded in a system of societal beliefs  --
>>  how the world works  --
>> 2) a) ...human labor... is a western abstraction
>>
>> Sorry for being so picky.
>>
>> Guenter
>>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Experimental Results with Nickel and Sodium Carbonate

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 01:37 AM 10/6/2012, Eric Walker wrote:
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Abd ul-Rahman 
Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com> wrote:


In an AC situation, there would be alternate 
production of hydrogen and oxygen at the same 
electrode. So one would expect a level of 
recombination, which could, I'd think, easily produce a glow.



Tangential question -- has anyone looked at what 
the optimal AC frequency would be for loading 
and unloading deuterium in palladium if the aim 
is to generate a substantial flux back and forth 
through the surface layer? Â It occurred to me 
that if the frequency far outpaced the rate of 
loading, the resulting flux might end up being relatively small.


The "SuperWave" approach of Energetics 
Technologies superimposes a complex AC signal on the DC loading current.


Actually reversing the current would have complex 
effects. Shutting off the current immediately 
initiates deloading, it is essentially 
sublimation of the hydrogen/deuterium. That is 
the apparent trigger for "Heat After Death."


Heating the cathode would accelerate this process, to a point.

Heat After Death on steroids.

HAD is interesting because at that point there is 
no input energy. The release of deuterium is 
endothermic. The only likely chemical process at 
that point could be recombination, but in a 
standard open cell, oxygen will not be readily 
available (and deuterium/oxygen mix does not 
recombine until it's brought to ignition 
temperature. While oxygen dissolved in the 
electrolyte will recombine in contact with the 
catalytic action of palladium, there is only a 
very limited amount of oxygen so available. 
Apparently recombination does not occur at high rates.


Obviously, if the cathode were heated to 
accelerate movement of deuterium, that would be 
energy input, but that input would be easily monitored.


Much serious PdD electrochemical work is with 
closed cells, with catalytic recombination 
installed above the electrolytic bath, so that 
recombined heavy water drips back, and so that 
the heat generated from recombination is 
restored. Otherwise to determine actual excess 
power, with open cells, one must factor for the 
released combustible gases, a loss of energy from the cell system.

Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years

[Nigel Dyer]

Is ancient China included as being part of the west?   A quick check of 
some basic history of ancient china seems to suggest that what I would 
consider to be the organisation of human labor was present going right 
back to the very earliest dynasties.


However, I would tend to think that so many things have now changed so 
much, that we cannot simply assume that any economic system that was 
appropriate in the past is necessarily right for the future.


Nigel


On 06/10/2012 10:44, Guenter Wildgruber wrote:


Well.

I'd like to comment on this a bit:
1) any economic system is embedded in a system of societal beliefs  --  how the 
world works  --
2) a) ...human labor... is a western abstraction

Sorry for being so picky.

Guenter

Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years

[Guenter Wildgruber]

Jed says:
...
Capitalism, communism, Feudalism, mercantalism and every other economic system 
ever invented can be defined as:

A system to allocate human labor, goods and services.

Some of these systems have been efficient; others were inefficient. Some were 
just; others were unjust, and still others tyrannical.
...


Well.

I'd like to comment on this a bit:
1) any economic system is embedded in a system of societal beliefs  --  how the 
world works  --
2) a) ...human labor... is a western abstraction
   b) ...goods... is a societal construct ('basic needs' being somewhat more 
universal)
   c) ...services... a modern concept applicable to societies western style. 
  A priest could be understood as providing a 'service'. For a shaman 
or monk this is not so easy.
   
3) ...efficient... depends on the frame of reference, and has astong 
teleological component. EG biosystems/ecosystems are often termed inefficient 
-see photosynthesis being only 0.5 to 1% 'efficient'.
question: 'efficient' wrt what?
 See:
..."A simple way of distinguishing between Efficiency and Effectiveness is the 
saying, "Efficiency is doing things right, while Effectiveness is doing the 
right things." This is based on the premise that selection of objectives of a 
process are just as important as the quality of that process."...
(wikipedia)

cf also "the myth of the lazy native"
http://multiworldindia.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/THE-MYTH-OF-THE-LAZY-NATIVE.doc

or the collection of medicinal herbs in Tibet, where 'time' for collection and 
preparation traditionally does not play any role and is not understandable 
within the western conceptions of 'efficiency', 'labor' etc.

Sorry for being so picky.

Guenter

Re: [Vo]:Progress from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project (Celani replication)

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-10-06 10:04, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

They have a progress blog with lots of high quality photos, data and
information:
http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/replicate/progress-blog


A presentation related with their efforts on replicating Celani's cell:

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OOFYUTFgr5u-IB1SncIBkT9kEZMYI4su6muHEQFpkwo/edit#slide=id.p

Cheers,
S.A.

[Vo]:Progress from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project (Celani replication)

[Akira Shirakawa]

Hello group,

This is via E-Cat World. Check it out:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/10/progress-from-the-martin-fleischmann-memorial-project/


I chatted today with Bob Greenyer, one of the members of the Martin Fleischmann 
Memorial Project, an organization whose goal is to provide irrefutable evidence 
of the reality and usefulness of LENR technology, or New Fire as they term it. 
It is clear the members of the MFMP have been active and busy in pursuing their 
goals, and new information is available on their web site, quantumheat.org T

The MFPP has decided that the best way for them to proceed at present is to 
work on a replication of the Celani cold fusion cell, and we can keep track of 
the progress of their work on their new Progress Blog which includes a detailed 
record in text and pictures of what they are doing.

Bob emphasized that his team is absolutely committed to carrying out their 
goals which are certainly ambitious. He assured me that there is more to come 
from the project and there will be a major push to involve as many people as 
possible in participating in their efforts to make sure that the New Fire makes 
a successful entrance onto the world stage.


They have a progress blog with lots of high quality photos, data and 
information:

http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/replicate/progress-blog

A recent video of their labs and current progress (HD Quality):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26k3Cz3wW-8


Witness HUG making preparations for New Fire replication apparatus.

Since ICCF17 members of the subsequently formed Martin Fleischmann Memorial 
Project (MFMP) have been working hard to realise their primary aim, to show to 
the world there is a new practical primary energy source we call the New Fire.

Hunt Utilities Group have put their full weight behind the projects aims and as 
you can see in this video, in little more than a month, they had made great 
strides to deliver testable prototypes of a variation on the Celani Cell.

This video shows one of the first prototype cells being put through pressure 
and temperature stress testing and calibration profiling.

Please seek ways to support our replication effort so we can help light the New 
Fire.


This looks very promising.

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:A new economic system will be needed in the next 20 to 100 years

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

We are not capable of anything like the fully automated version in which
> all of the necessity of life are handed out for free. That will take 100
> years. Maybe 200 years.
>

As an interesting side note to the economic discussion, there is the
cautionary tail of the Speenhamland system in England in the late 1700s.  I
suspect the difficulties have been exaggerated or even misdiagnosed, but
one can still be warned about attempting anything more
than piecemeal social engineering.  (Not that anyone has suggested that
here.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speenhamland_system

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Designer of 3-D Printable Gun Has His 3-D Printer Seized

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

No modern society can survive without some measure of redistribution from
> wealthy people to middle class and poor people. This necessity is imposed
> by our technology, in manufacturing and farming. We will soon need much
> more redistribution, to nearly everyone:
>

I've been wondering about the role of technological change and the
accompanying affects on the labor market and the general welfare of
society.  With the apparently increasing churn in job tenure, it will no
doubt be more and more difficult for many to get a solid foot in the middle
class as things currently stand in a country like the US.  This is not just
bad for those out of work but also for society.  Having people loiter
around, unable to find work, or in menial positions that do not lead
anywhere, does no one any good.  If one accepts this premise, there seems
to be a choice between a less flexible labor market, on one hand, and a
stronger social safety net, on the other (or perhaps both).  I don't think
a less flexible labor market is the way to go in a technologically advanced
society.  So I find the Scandanavian approach to the safety net a very
interesting one.  I even take a little bit of gleeful pleasure in the fact
that conservatives in the US deride this general line of thinking as
"European" (with all due respect to the self-identified conservatives on
this list).

I say "increasing churn," but perhaps this is mistaken, in historical terms.

Eric