RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
From: Guenter Wildgruber > A RF-gen is a sophisticated device, I can tell You, and definitely cannot be inside an enclosure which varies in the hundreds of degrees Celsius. Is this some kind of joke? Your background must be in communications or entertainment. How can anyone define RF as "sophisticated" for use in energy devices? ROTFL. That borders on absurdity. We are not talking about a need for precision waves for the audiophile, nor information transfer for computers, nor anything other than what would otherwise be called spiky (superradiant) noise. A single diode, properly placed, can convert DC to what is arguably "RF" - if one is so tolerant as to admit that a certain high level of noise is not a problem and can be an advantage. Jones <>
Re: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
Von:"pagnu...@htdconnect.com" An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 18:25 Donnerstag, 26.Januar 2012 Betreff: RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)... >...Rossi apparently uses an RF-generator. No. He does not. If you carefully look at the videos of nyteknik, You can see that there is no entry for an RF-gen into the system. A RF-gen is a sophisticated device, I can tell You, and definitely cannot be inside an enclosure which varies in the hundreds of degrees Celsius. If the video of nyteknik is showing the 'real' thing, there is no RF-gen in the system! Anyone supposing that there is one, did not pay attention! Plus: Anyone assuming that controlling an RF-gen of significant power (Watts) in an an environment, where temperatures vary in the hundreds of degrees, is either a fool or a physicist.
RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
This article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120120183038.htm may have some bearing on your discussion. [snip] Current T-ray imaging devices are very expensive and operate at only a low output power, since creating the waves consumes large amounts of energy and needs to take place at very low temperatures. In the new technique, the researchers demonstrated that it is possible to produce a strong beam of T-rays by shining light of differing wavelengths on a pair of electrodes -- two pointed strips of metal separated by a 100 nanometre gap on top of a semiconductor wafer. The structure of the tip-to-tip nano-sized gap electrode greatly enhances the THz field and acts like a nano-antenna to amplify the wave generated. In this method, THz waves are produced by an interaction between the electromagnetic waves of the light pulses and a powerful current passing between the semiconductor electrodes. [/snip]
Re: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > But 'duel' is strangely appropriate in the context of a beat (or > complementary) wave > > ... as in dueling banjos > > BTW - didn't you spell 'Jed' wrong? I thought both of them did it on purpose. T
Re: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
Jones Beene wrote: ... as in dueling banjos BTW - didn't you spell 'Jed' wrong? Good grief! Maybe I correct Peter's paper. - Jed J-E-D (which a certain unnamed person says is for "Japanese-English Dictionary")
RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
Morning guys! Yes, the state-space involves numerous variables, and their interactions (e.g., CONstructive vs DEstructive interference)... trying to model it, understand it, and then control it will likely be a monumental task. The complexity of the problem, and it's sensitivity to precise frequencies (because we're dealing with resonances), also makes this a VERY difficult thing to reproduce. -mark -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com [mailto:pagnu...@htdconnect.com] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:25 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)... Jones, My reply was originally to Mark Iverson's thread - I don't know why it started a new one. Mark is citing some experiments showing that photosynthesis is more efficient when driven by selected multiple fixed frequencies, and wonders whether there is a connection with CF/LENR effects. Good question on Ni-H. Rossi apparently uses an RF-generator. I have to check on others, like Miley and Defkalion. Energetics uses ultrasound - their signal is imprecisely defined in their patent application, but it's clearly broadband, and appears to have a discrete "picket-fench" spectrum. Based on the papers I've perused, I'd guess that optimal em/sonic stimulation depends sensitively on particle size, temperature, morphology, density, colloidal formations, crystallization patterns, proximity to surfaces, ... If Rossi's claims are accurate, I'd bet that National Instruments is trying to (somehow) close the loop in this huge state-space to stay in the tiny and elusive stable optimal operating spaces. Thanks, Lou Pagnucco > Lou, > > This kind of photon stimulation was of great interest a few years ago > and is known as the "Letts/Cravens effect". They had a tortuous path > to get it to a useful level when at EarthTech. Many null results in > the process. "Are we there yet?" > > At one time they also were saying that a magnetic field adds to the > effect. > That is of keen interest as well, if this effect relates to quantum > entanglement, in any way. > > Two additional points of interest that jump out to the Ni-H crowd: > > 1)This gain from optical stimulation applies to Pd-D. Does it apply > equally to Ni-H? > 2)The highest gain is at ~15 THZ which is a IR emission (near IR) > better known from its wavelength about 1.5 microns. This corresponds > to a blackbody temperature, so the laser only adds coherency. > > Actually the third point for interest for Ni-H watchers is derivative. > > If the answer to 1) is yes, then should not the active powder be in > the size range of 2)? > > > > Original Message- > From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com > > Along those lines, you might want to read - "PROGRESS ON DUAL LASER > EXPERIMENTS" > http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinprogresson.pdf > > > EXCERPT: > We have continued our experiments using duel laser stimulation of > electrochemically loaded PdD. In earlier work, we used two properly > oriented and polarized tunable diode lasers which provided stimulation > at optical frequencies; interestingly, we found that the excess heat > is sensitive to the beat difference frequency. Low-level thermal > signals are observed to be triggered at apparent resonances when the > difference frequency is 8.3, > 15.3 and 20.4 THz > > Perhaps, also related is the ultrasonic "Superwave" LENR stimulation > used by Energetics Technologies - > http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf > My impression is that their source has a wideband discrete spectrum of > phase-locked frequencies - so that the same stimulus signal is > repeatedly swept. > >
RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
Jones, My reply was originally to Mark Iverson's thread - I don't know why it started a new one. Mark is citing some experiments showing that photosynthesis is more efficient when driven by selected multiple fixed frequencies, and wonders whether there is a connection with CF/LENR effects. Good question on Ni-H. Rossi apparently uses an RF-generator. I have to check on others, like Miley and Defkalion. Energetics uses ultrasound - their signal is imprecisely defined in their patent application, but it's clearly broadband, and appears to have a discrete "picket-fench" spectrum. Based on the papers I've perused, I'd guess that optimal em/sonic stimulation depends sensitively on particle size, temperature, morphology, density, colloidal formations, crystallization patterns, proximity to surfaces, ... If Rossi's claims are accurate, I'd bet that National Instruments is trying to (somehow) close the loop in this huge state-space to stay in the tiny and elusive stable optimal operating spaces. Thanks, Lou Pagnucco > Lou, > > This kind of photon stimulation was of great interest a few years ago and > is > known as the "Letts/Cravens effect". They had a tortuous path to get it to > a > useful level when at EarthTech. Many null results in the process. "Are we > there yet?" > > At one time they also were saying that a magnetic field adds to the > effect. > That is of keen interest as well, if this effect relates to quantum > entanglement, in any way. > > Two additional points of interest that jump out to the Ni-H crowd: > > 1)This gain from optical stimulation applies to Pd-D. Does it apply > equally to Ni-H? > 2)The highest gain is at ~15 THZ which is a IR emission (near IR) > better known from its wavelength about 1.5 microns. This corresponds to a > blackbody temperature, so the laser only adds coherency. > > Actually the third point for interest for Ni-H watchers is derivative. > > If the answer to 1) is yes, then should not the active powder be in the > size > range of 2)? > > > > Original Message- > From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com > > Along those lines, you might want to read - "PROGRESS ON DUAL LASER > EXPERIMENTS" > http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinprogresson.pdf > > > EXCERPT: > We have continued our experiments using duel laser stimulation of > electrochemically loaded PdD. In earlier work, we used two properly > oriented and polarized tunable diode lasers which provided stimulation at > optical frequencies; interestingly, we found that the excess heat > is sensitive to the beat difference frequency. Low-level thermal signals > are observed to be triggered at apparent resonances when the difference > frequency is 8.3, > 15.3 and 20.4 THz > > Perhaps, also related is the ultrasonic "Superwave" LENR stimulation used > by Energetics Technologies - > http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf > My impression is that their source has a wideband discrete spectrum of > phase-locked frequencies - so that the same stimulus signal is repeatedly > swept. > >
RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
But 'duel' is strangely appropriate in the context of a beat (or complementary) wave ... as in dueling banjos BTW - didn't you spell 'Jed' wrong? (wouldn't have noticed it, by my spell checker did) -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinprogresson.pdf > EXCERPT: > We have continued our experiments using duel laser stimulation of Yikes. Peter spelled "dual" wrong?! - Jef
Re: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Along those lines, you might want to read - "PROGRESS ON DUAL LASER EXPERIMENTS" http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinprogresson.pdf EXCERPT: We have continued our experiments using duel laser stimulation of Yikes. Peter spelled "dual" wrong?! - Jef
RE: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
Lou, This kind of photon stimulation was of great interest a few years ago and is known as the "Letts/Cravens effect". They had a tortuous path to get it to a useful level when at EarthTech. Many null results in the process. "Are we there yet?" At one time they also were saying that a magnetic field adds to the effect. That is of keen interest as well, if this effect relates to quantum entanglement, in any way. Two additional points of interest that jump out to the Ni-H crowd: 1) This gain from optical stimulation applies to Pd-D. Does it apply equally to Ni-H? 2) The highest gain is at ~15 THZ which is a IR emission (near IR) better known from its wavelength about 1.5 microns. This corresponds to a blackbody temperature, so the laser only adds coherency. Actually the third point for interest for Ni-H watchers is derivative. If the answer to 1) is yes, then should not the active powder be in the size range of 2)? Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Along those lines, you might want to read - "PROGRESS ON DUAL LASER EXPERIMENTS" http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinprogresson.pdf EXCERPT: We have continued our experiments using duel laser stimulation of electrochemically loaded PdD. In earlier work, we used two properly oriented and polarized tunable diode lasers which provided stimulation at optical frequencies; interestingly, we found that the excess heat is sensitive to the beat difference frequency. Low-level thermal signals are observed to be triggered at apparent resonances when the difference frequency is 8.3, 15.3 and 20.4 THz Perhaps, also related is the ultrasonic "Superwave" LENR stimulation used by Energetics Technologies - http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf My impression is that their source has a wideband discrete spectrum of phase-locked frequencies - so that the same stimulus signal is repeatedly swept. <>
Re: [Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
Along those lines, you might want to read - "PROGRESS ON DUAL LASER EXPERIMENTS" http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinprogresson.pdf EXCERPT: We have continued our experiments using duel laser stimulation of electrochemically loaded PdDx. In earlier work, we used two properly oriented and polarized tunable diode lasers which provided stimulation at optical frequencies; interestingly, we found that the excess heat issensitive to the beat difference frequency. Low-level thermal signals are observed to be triggered at apparent resonances when the difference frequency is 8.3, 15.3 and 20.4 THz Perhaps, also related is the ultrasonic "Superwave" LENR stimulation used by Energetics Technologies - http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf My impression is that their source has a wideband discrete spectrum of phase-locked frequencies - so that the same stimulus signal is repeatedly swept.
[Vo]:Resonances: Coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes (phonons)...
FYI: The presence of excess heat, and [near] lack of high-E particles/photons from LENR reactions would require coupling the large amount of E into the lattice vibrations (phonon modes) instead of into gammas (photons) or particles (neutrons and subsequently, dead grad-students). The article below looked into the energy-transfer (coupling) process in photosynthesis. They discovered that the coupling between electronic states and vibrational modes is greatly enhanced when they hit the light-harvesting complexes of algae with a 2-color (wavelength) photon spectroscopy. How does this apply to LENR? According to DGT, the form of LENR used in their technology (and likely all Ni-H gas-phase experiments) is a 'multi-stage' process. One of those stages is the coupling of the excess [nuclear] energy into the lattice instead of the usual gammas or energetic particles. I would posit that there is something unique about the geometry of the H-loaded metal lattice and the AMOUNT of heat energy that is present which determines the frequency of the lattice vibrations (phonons), which establishes a coherence similar to the below article which couples energy from electronic states to vibrational modes. The difference is that LENR would be coupling nuclear energies to the lattice... or could there be coupling from nuclear to electronic, and then from electronic to phononic? PhysOrg article: http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-role-quantum-effects-photosynthesis.html Key phrases: "By using the newer, less common technique, called two-color photon echo spectroscopy, the researchers could excite only the pathway in which [quantum] coherence occurs. Singling out this pathway revealed clear signatures for strong coupling between the electronic states and the vibrational modes of the protein matrix (phonons)" "Our observation of strong coupling between the electronic states and the phonon modes of the protein matrix provides strong experimental evidence that classical treatment of these interactions is not sufficient," >From the paper's abstract: "... allowing coherent coupling between otherwise nonresonant transitions." which is here: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jz201600f Longer excerpt from PhysOrg article: "... the quantum coherence in the algae's light-harvesting complexes was originally observed using 2D electronic spectroscopy, which uses short, broadband pulses to probe energy dynamics. The use of broadband pulses (i.e., pulses with a wide range of frequencies) excites many different pathways simultaneously. Although this technique can be useful, it also makes it difficult to isolate different processes since multiple excitations can interact and alter each other's dynamics. By using the newer, less common technique, called two-color photon echo spectroscopy, the researchers could excite only the pathway in which [quantum] coherence occurs. Singling out this pathway revealed clear signatures for strong coupling between the electronic states and the vibrational modes of the protein matrix (phonons) in the algae's light-harvesting complexes. As Davis explained, this type of interaction is not what is expected from the classical models that have traditionally been used to describe light harvesting and energy transfer in photosynthesis. "Our observation of strong coupling between the electronic states and the phonon modes of the protein matrix provides strong experimental evidence that classical treatment of these interactions is not sufficient, and that models including the microscopic details of the coupling interactions are indeed required," Davis said. "The quantum nature of these interactions increases the scope for quantum effects to have an impact and enhances the possibility of coherent energy transfer in photosynthesis." In the future, the researchers plan to further extend the technique to investigate these quantum mechanical interactions and the role they play in light harvesting and energy transfer. "We are currently exploring the dependence of these coherent interactions on a number of experimental parameters, including temperature, wavelength and polarization," Davis said. "These results will enable us to explore the nature of the excited states, their interactions with the phonon modes of the protein matrix and the role they play in energy transfer. We also plan to investigate whether such long-lived coherences also exist between other states in these systems and ultimately whether coherence transfer between states occurs and is relevant for photosynthesis." <>
Re: [Vo]: Resonances...
At 04:00 AM 12/17/2011, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: I'll get to Robin's two questions at the end, but first this important clue... The following is peer-reviewed proof (published in Science and Nature Photonics) that a high energy photon can be converted to a lower energy photon with the 'missing' energy coupled into the lattice (physical vibration)... Uh, "higher energy." These are laser-generated photons, not gamma rays! Here is a review of the articles: http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-vibration-entangled-diamonds.html == excerpt The researchers, from Oxford University, National University of Singapore, and National Research Council of Canada, also sought to exploit another property of diamond: it tends to scatter light in such a way that a photon striking it can be converted to a lower energy photon, with the remaining energy being converted into a vibration. This vibration or 'ringing' in the diamond crystal can be detected using a laser. 'We sent bursts of laser light through both diamonds,' Ian tells me. 'Most of the time the light would travel straight through the crystals but sometimes the light would dump some energy in one of the crystals, setting it ringing, and the light would then emerge with less energy - a lower frequency.' Notice: "most of the time the light would travel straight through the crystals." The way I read this is EXACTLY what I proposed a week ago... that the gammas (or other high-energy photons) which the mainstream has been using to say LENR is bogus, ARE generated, but they deposit their energy a little at a time as they are moving through the Pd/D or NI/H lattice. Okay, but. Gammas will lose energy travelling through the lattice, it will end up as heat. There is a serious problem here, being glossed over by enthusiasm. Gammas of a certain energy will mostly penetrate the palladium lattice, and this has, I'd bet, been studied. The NAE is almost certainly on or very near the surface, from where helium is found. The gammas will mostly escape, unless they head inward, which perhaps half of them would. Imagining how *all* of the gammas would be absorbed is what's quite a stretch here. If the main reaction generates gammas, they would be copious. Instead, if there are any, they are difficult to detect and establish. The UNUSUAL conditions which are present inside the metal lattice form areas which act like an energy 'SINK', draining the gammas until they cease to exist because they've deposited all their energy into the lattice. If they do make it to the outer edge of the Pd or Ni, they might appear as photons, but as much lower energy photons. This is quite unlikely. Half the gammas would be oriented outward, presumably. If something about the NAE orients the gammas inward (maybe!), then there would be higher absorption. We might be looking for 24 MeV gammas. That would penetrate a lot of palladium, my guess. Anyone know the numbers? Have any CF'ers ever looked for much lower E photons? I found a shortage of evidence on this. One might think there would be visible light, at least, but I've seen no record of detection of light coming from a CF cathode. EUV is quite possible, and we have discussed how one might look for EUV emissions. It's not simple. EUV is suspected, I think, from the excited Be-8 nucleus before it fissions, in Takahashi's theory. The fission dumps about 100 KeV into two He-4 nuclei, but electrons would be included in the energy distribution, four of them. This isn't gamma emission. And if the phenomenon described in the paper were happening, most of the gammas would still escape, and if only a small percentage escaped, they'd be detected, lots of people have looked for gammas.
RE: [Vo]: Resonances...
Thx Horace... I peruse your stuff over the holidays. Now more interesting clues that we're dealing with resonance/harmonics... -mark = "Golden ratio" hints at hidden atomic symmetry Jan. 7, 2010 Courtesy Helmholtz Association of German Research Centres and World Science staff By tuning the system the researchers found that the chain of atoms acts like a guitar string whose tension comes from interaction between the spins of the constituent particles. "For these interactions we found a series," or "scale," of "resonant notes," said Radu Coldea of Oxford University, who led the research. "The first two notes show a perfect relationship with each other," added Coldea, principle author of a paper on the findings to appear in the Jan. 8 issue of the research journal Science. The "pitch" of these notes, or their frequencies of vibration, are in a ratio of about 1.618, the same as "the golden ratio famous from art and architecture," he continued. If two numbers are related by the golden ratio, their sum is also related to the larger of them by the golden ratio. In other words, if A divided by B is that special number, then A+B divided by A is the same number. = -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Resonances... On Dec 17, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: > > How does one explain the observation that the energy involved with > interactions of electrons is a million times less than nuclear > interactions, and yet the 'electric' charges are 'equal' (and > opposite). I would argue that there is no 'electric charge'; charge > cannot be separated from the e or p 'objects'. I think this is primarily a matter of the *range* of the interactions. If you look at the deflated states you can see the electron involved has a mass similar to that of the nucleating particle, be it proton, deuteron, or quark. The physical parameters of these states are shown in approximate form here: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/FusionSpreadDualRel.pdf http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/DeflateP1.pdf http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/FusionUpQuark.pdf I had hoped to develop a more accurate and dynamic model, with compensation for the distribution of charge in the particle wavefunction, but this has been on a back burner for some years now. At close range extremely high velocities and relativistic gammas are involved. For example, the proton mass to electron mass ratio is given as 1.06983, and its gamma is 2.62791e+4. Further, the presence of an electron in a Ni nucleus diminishes its electro-magnetic field mass-energy by MeV levels. Another consideration may be that a large portion of the binding energy of a nucleus can be shown to be due to the Casimir force. This is an electromagnetic effect, and one not fully appraised in typical models of the nucleus I think. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]: Resonances...
On Dec 17, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: How does one explain the observation that the energy involved with interactions of electrons is a million times less than nuclear interactions, and yet the 'electric' charges are 'equal' (and opposite). I would argue that there is no 'electric charge'; charge cannot be separated from the e or p 'objects'. I think this is primarily a matter of the *range* of the interactions. If you look at the deflated states you can see the electron involved has a mass similar to that of the nucleating particle, be it proton, deuteron, or quark. The physical parameters of these states are shown in approximate form here: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/FusionSpreadDualRel.pdf http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/DeflateP1.pdf http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/FusionUpQuark.pdf I had hoped to develop a more accurate and dynamic model, with compensation for the distribution of charge in the particle wavefunction, but this has been on a back burner for some years now. At close range extremely high velocities and relativistic gammas are involved. For example, the proton mass to electron mass ratio is given as 1.06983, and its gamma is 2.62791e+4. Further, the presence of an electron in a Ni nucleus diminishes its electro-magnetic field mass-energy by MeV levels. Another consideration may be that a large portion of the binding energy of a nucleus can be shown to be due to the Casimir force. This is an electromagnetic effect, and one not fully appraised in typical models of the nucleus I think. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]: Resonances...
Morning Horace! Thx for the thoughtful commentary... I am not suggesting that the ensembles that act as the energy sinks are all over, or take up large areas of the material... they are localized, and perhaps act as a 'cage' which contains the hi-E photon until it dissipates its E into the lattice (electron oscillators). RE: the criticism that it would be hard to shield the gammas if ejected very close to the surface... 1) unless the preferred direction of ejection is either parallel to, or in the opposite direction of the 'outside'. That preferred direction being caused by the loading of the H or D, which is more likely uniform closer to the surface, and thus, generates the most regular/coherent layer which acts as the energy sink. There is also some explanation in #2) below which also applies to this criticism. RE: the surface being 'dirty', less than pristine... 2) when looked at macroscopically, you are right, but I think the evidence is that the active sites of LENR are very small, and so when one considers that, it's not so much of a stretch to see numerous SMALL localized areas which present extremely pristine/uniform conditions. I do understand your point that the energy being reduced or downshifted probably occurs inside the nucleus... and I may need to incorporate that idea into my physical model, however, it's still about resonances... and when certain elements within the atom come into resonance, which requires very specific conditions, things happen which are outside the standard model. How does one explain the observation that the energy involved with interactions of electrons is a million times less than nuclear interactions, and yet the 'electric' charges are 'equal' (and opposite). I would argue that there is no 'electric charge'; charge cannot be separated from the e or p 'objects'. IS the concept of 'charge', and thus, attraction and repulsion, simply a function of the harmonic relationships (or lack thereof) between the e- and p+ oscillators? e- oscillators are simply at a different octave; are the different e- shells also different octaves? The whole concept of 'charge' was used as a PRACTICAL model, and was developed when instrumentation was extremely crude compared to modern times. I've been working on a PHYSICAL explanation for numerous observations. Positing that we are dealing with coupled oscillators then, would it not be possible to increase/decrease the oscillation/vibration frequency of the e-/p+ until they are harmonically related in such a way that the e-'s energy gets 'sucked into' that of the p+ to create a n, and a small residual (v). Or is it that the small residual (v) amount of energy gets ejected first, thus causing a special harmonic relationship between e and p with the e's energy being sucked into the p? Ho, Ho, Ho! -Mark -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 10:23 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Resonances... On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:00 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: [snip] > > This ties in with Alchemy as well, and the very difficult time LENR > scientists had with repeatability... conditions HAVE TO BE JUST RIGHT, > or else the effect does not manifest. This should tell you something about this kind of downshifting theory, as well as the Chubb theories, and W&L theory. In many cases the LENR reactions have been determined to occur at or very near the surface. This presents two major problems: (1) there is not enough material between the reaction site and the surface to screen gammas by the means suggested, and (2) the surfaces of cathodes are typically very dirty, hardly a pristine lattice. Proof of the ability of a very thin film surface layer to screen high energy gammas by collective action should be relatively easy to obtain. All that is required is a an x-ray tube, an x-ray flux meter, and an x-ray transparent medium on which the surface film is deposited and operated under the proposed conditions. Cold fusion as been proposed to be enhanced by nanostructures. A surface layer of nanoparticles one deep should be capable of producing LENR. If so, such a layer should not be capable of suppressing MeV level gammas - yet it should be feasible to test for high energy particles or gammas. I know of no one proposing a collective action which bridges nanoparticle gaps. I think it is much more probable that high energy nuclear radiation is suppressed or downshifted before it leaves the reacting nucleus excited state. It seems to me the state of nuclei undergoing LENR is necessarily de-energized a priori, i.e. before the energy of fusion is released. An obvious mechanism to achieve this a priori de- energizing is one or more electrons in the reacting nucleus before the nuclear reaction occurs. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]: Resonances...
On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:00 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: [snip] This ties in with Alchemy as well, and the very difficult time LENR scientists had with repeatability... conditions HAVE TO BE JUST RIGHT, or else the effect does not manifest. This should tell you something about this kind of downshifting theory, as well as the Chubb theories, and W&L theory. In many cases the LENR reactions have been determined to occur at or very near the surface. This presents two major problems: (1) there is not enough material between the reaction site and the surface to screen gammas by the means suggested, and (2) the surfaces of cathodes are typically very dirty, hardly a pristine lattice. Proof of the ability of a very thin film surface layer to screen high energy gammas by collective action should be relatively easy to obtain. All that is required is a an x-ray tube, an x-ray flux meter, and an x-ray transparent medium on which the surface film is deposited and operated under the proposed conditions. Cold fusion as been proposed to be enhanced by nanostructures. A surface layer of nanoparticles one deep should be capable of producing LENR. If so, such a layer should not be capable of suppressing MeV level gammas - yet it should be feasible to test for high energy particles or gammas. I know of no one proposing a collective action which bridges nanoparticle gaps. I think it is much more probable that high energy nuclear radiation is suppressed or downshifted before it leaves the reacting nucleus excited state. It seems to me the state of nuclei undergoing LENR is necessarily de-energized a priori, i.e. before the energy of fusion is released. An obvious mechanism to achieve this a priori de- energizing is one or more electrons in the reacting nucleus before the nuclear reaction occurs. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]: Resonances...
I'll get to Robin's two questions at the end, but first this important clue... The following is peer-reviewed proof (published in Science and Nature Photonics) that a high energy photon can be converted to a lower energy photon with the 'missing' energy coupled into the lattice (physical vibration)... == excerpt The researchers, from Oxford University, National University of Singapore, and National Research Council of Canada, also sought to exploit another property of diamond: it tends to scatter light in such a way that a photon striking it can be converted to a lower energy photon, with the remaining energy being converted into a vibration. This vibration or 'ringing' in the diamond crystal can be detected using a laser. 'We sent bursts of laser light through both diamonds,' Ian tells me. 'Most of the time the light would travel straight through the crystals but sometimes the light would dump some energy in one of the crystals, setting it ringing, and the light would then emerge with less energy - a lower frequency.' == The way I read this is EXACTLY what I proposed a week ago... that the gammas (or other high-energy photons) which the mainstream has been using to say LENR is bogus, ARE generated, but they deposit their energy a little at a time as they are moving through the Pd/D or NI/H lattice. The UNUSUAL conditions which are present inside the metal lattice form areas which act like an energy 'SINK', draining the gammas until they cease to exist because they've deposited all their energy into the lattice. If they do make it to the outer edge of the Pd or Ni, they might appear as photons, but as much lower energy photons. Have any CF'ers ever looked for much lower E photons? Now for Robin's questions... On 12/8 at 1:28pm, Robin asked: > Two new questions: > 1) What part of such an ensemble is resonant with >gamma rays (of what energies?), and why? > 2) If such ensembles are fleeting, then one might >expect at least some gamma rays to escape, yet >few to none are detected? Well, the 'ensembles' (to use your term) that I'm talking about are not found in normal matter, or only for very fleeting moments and very sparse at that, thus, the probability of any gammas even encountering one is extremely remote. However, I think we all agree the a metal lattice loaded to near 1:1 with H or D is NOT normal. I'm proposing that the UNUSUAL/RARE conditions which are conducive to LENR effects, create more long-lived and spatially larger ensembles, thus, drastically increasing the likelihood of interactions with gammas... these ensembles then act as energy-sinks, or quantum-sinks, and drain the hi-E photons (a quantum at a time?) until all the photon's energy has been converted to lattice vibration... What are the lattice vibrations REALLY CAUSED by?? Atoms out of balance. Again, you have to forget the Bohr-model and 'orbiting' electrons... there are real oscillations of some medium, and those oscillations have momentum, so if I add just one quantum of energy (momentum) to a balanced atom, that energy is coupled into only ONE of the oscillators, and the momentums of the individual oscillations that make up that atom are now out of balance. Just like your car tire when it's not balanced, there are certain speeds at which the unbalanced momentum is resonant with the angular velocity of the tire and the tire begins to bounce quite violently... I think everyone has seen this on the car next to them when driving on the freeway. This ties in with Alchemy as well, and the very difficult time LENR scientists had with repeatability... conditions HAVE TO BE JUST RIGHT, or else the effect does not manifest. Each atom is a complex system of coupled oscillators, each oscillator has momentum. Cool the atom down to 0 K, and what happens? BEC when all oscillators have EXACTLY the same amount of energy... the same amount of momentum... imagine 20 different oscillators with varying frequencies... and being able to adjust the frequencies so they all end up with the same frequency, and come into sync with each other. A single quantum of 'heat' is UNBALANCING because it does not spread out its energy equally to all the individual oscillations in an atom. It only gets coupled into one, and perhaps can jump from one to another. But that addition of energy (momentum) to one oscillator at a time causes that one to be slightly different from the others and that causes unbalanced momentum, and that manifests as PHYSICAL vibration of the entire atom. So much more comes to mind, but must do some work and then get to bed... g'nite all! -Mark <>
[Vo]: Resonances, cont'd
FYI: See excerpt at end of message for more evidence for what I've been thinking of for 30 years, and harping on here for the last year or more. J Point of interest: The nanoclusters only formed when a specific amount of heat was present. which means that that specific amount of heat caused some kind of long-lived localized coherence or resonance. Makes no difference if you add more heat, or remove heat, either would destroy the resonant conditions and the nanoclusters and colossal magnetoresistance to die away. Robin: Haven't forgotten your 1st question. I've just been too busy to take time out to finish my response. I will get to it. -Mark Colossal magnetoresistance occurs when nanoclusters form at specific temperatures http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-colossal-magnetoresistance-nanoclusters- specific-temperatures.html "As we cooled samples from room temperature to about 250 Kelvin (-23 degrees Celsius), we found that colossal magnetoresistance emerged as nanoclusters formed and became most dense," Jing explained. "We saw the nanoclusters form and connect a path in the crystal, and the whole material became conducting." "These nanoclusters were thought to only act as insulators with different magnetic properties", Jing added. This work shows that these properties are temperature dependent. In the presence of a magnetic field and at the proper temperature, the nanoclusters become conductive and ferromagnetic to allow colossal magnetoresistance to occur. ---
