Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Alain Sepeda]

about no regulation against, I was not clear,.
I want LENR at home free to use, only after a reasonable runtime in
industry, when people could manage youth problems...

in fact, some early regulation to make a slow start at home (only for
installation out of home first, then only in cave, then...), but not the
"IT IS FORBIDDEN BECAUSE SCAREMONGER SAY SO", as I expect in france, and
probably in EU...
officially for safety, in fact for protecting economic rents, and local
religions of anti-science.

maybe I'm a bit sick of french politician mentality today... forbid ,
forbid , forbid.
If the world was french, talking of LENR would be punished and all book
would be burned. We start to hate freedom here. on any subject.


2014/1/8 Jed Rothwell 

> Alain Sepeda  wrote:
>
>
>> - no regulation against lenr at home (when certified in industry)
>>
>
> Maybe we should have a delay of a year or two before certifying it for
> home use. We may want to delay before using it in automobiles or ships.
> Definitely we want to wait before using it in aircraft. That calls for
> extreme reliability as well as safety.
>
>
> - help to protect insurance company from unexpected LENR risk (reinsurance
>> by state), to avoid frightening insurance cost
>> - regulation to make home LENR reasonably safe, to avoid accident:
>> mandatory maintenance like gas boilers
>> - regulation to make incident identified, and problems corrected, to
>> increase safety and increase trust, and reduce the chance of tail risk on
>> many reactor... or to stop all if it is finally unreasonable (blackswan
>> risk identified in few home).
>>
>
> Good suggestions.
>
>
> - laisser faire for the rest, especially research (no need of subsibies,
>> since lenr makes money)
>>
>
> I would like to see subsidies for other energy sources reduced, and
> eventually eliminated.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Alain Sepeda  wrote:


> - no regulation against lenr at home (when certified in industry)
>

Maybe we should have a delay of a year or two before certifying it for home
use. We may want to delay before using it in automobiles or ships.
Definitely we want to wait before using it in aircraft. That calls for
extreme reliability as well as safety.


- help to protect insurance company from unexpected LENR risk (reinsurance
> by state), to avoid frightening insurance cost
> - regulation to make home LENR reasonably safe, to avoid accident:
> mandatory maintenance like gas boilers
> - regulation to make incident identified, and problems corrected, to
> increase safety and increase trust, and reduce the chance of tail risk on
> many reactor... or to stop all if it is finally unreasonable (blackswan
> risk identified in few home).
>

Good suggestions.


- laisser faire for the rest, especially research (no need of subsibies,
> since lenr makes money)
>

I would like to see subsidies for other energy sources reduced, and
eventually eliminated.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Alain Sepeda]

I was assuming that LENR will be mainstream soon... I will tulble soon, but
like an eartquake, with few alarms

There are some lower political activist, journalists who privately are
ready to lobby their hierarchy, if well prepared.
Advice from pro of politic is to get contact with activist before the wave
start...

it will be panic, unless we prepare the mind to chooses us, and to do what
we planned.

my few demand to politciians:
- no regulation against lenr at home (when certified in industry)
- help to protect insurance company from unexpected LENR risk (reinsurance
by state), to avoid frightening insurance cost
- regulation to make home LENR reasonably safe, to avoid accident:
mandatory maintenance like gas boilers
- regulation to make incident identified, and problems corrected, to
increase safety and increase trust, and reduce the chance of tail risk on
many reactor... or to stop all if it is finally unreasonable (blackswan
risk identified in few home).
- laisser faire for the rest, especially research (no need of subsibies,
since lenr makes money)



2014/1/8 Lennart Thornros 

> Alain, I think you are a bigger optimist than I am.
> Wouldn't that be something a LENR party in each country (China??)
> Well. I think if we can find the low-hanging fruit. The entrepreneurs and
> investors, which are easy to convince about LENR.
> I think you find them among small strong entities.
> I do not discourage your ambitions but it is hard to make changes.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650
>
> “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a
> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
>>
>> 2014/1/7 Lennart Thornros 
>>
>>> Axil, your say that "LENR may be a new force, a catalyst, and an
>>> amplifier for great social change." is always the visionaries point of
>>> view. My experience tells me to be much more cynical. *Every politician
>>> in the world will have promoted LENR and therefore should be renumerated
>>> and given impact on the implementation. Lobby * . . .  . I hope you are
>>> right and I am wrong.
>>>
>>
>> If some people ask themselves what they can do about LENR transition, I
>> have an answer.
>> We have to get a foot in politic to avoid the old parrty to protect the
>> old lobbies...
>>
>> a beloved politic expert told me that if you want the things to change,
>> you have to influence politic, by lobbying (moaning in public, mail, party,
>> NGO)...
>> the best way could be to get internal contact with even lower level
>> activists in a newly created party in each country/state.
>> get contact with one or two activist... talk of the hope, the influence
>> they could get, the need of good regulation to allo LENR at home (like
>> allowing LENR at home, proposing reinsurance of the govt for blackswan, no
>> subsidies but reorganization of education, or public research...)...
>>
>>
>> some will contact the news free-market party where there was none before..
>> some will contact the local statist party where there was not before...
>> some wil contact the pirate party, where it is new...
>> some wil contact the religious, or the secular party where it is
>> newcommer...
>> some will contact the green if they are new...
>> some will contact the farme party, or an imigrant community party...
>>
>>
>>
>> try to enter the radar of the newcommers...
>>
>> not only they may hear you, but the old party will hear you there too,
>> and wll take you mere seriously if you are in a challenger party, than if
>> you were begging support
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Lennart Thornros]

Alain, I think you are a bigger optimist than I am.
Wouldn't that be something a LENR party in each country (China??)
Well. I think if we can find the low-hanging fruit. The entrepreneurs and
investors, which are easy to convince about LENR.
I think you find them among small strong entities.
I do not discourage your ambitions but it is hard to make changes.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Alain Sepeda  wrote:

>
> 2014/1/7 Lennart Thornros 
>
>> Axil, your say that "LENR may be a new force, a catalyst, and an
>> amplifier for great social change." is always the visionaries point of
>> view. My experience tells me to be much more cynical. *Every politician
>> in the world will have promoted LENR and therefore should be renumerated
>> and given impact on the implementation. Lobby * . . .  . I hope you are
>> right and I am wrong.
>>
>
> If some people ask themselves what they can do about LENR transition, I
> have an answer.
> We have to get a foot in politic to avoid the old parrty to protect the
> old lobbies...
>
> a beloved politic expert told me that if you want the things to change,
> you have to influence politic, by lobbying (moaning in public, mail, party,
> NGO)...
> the best way could be to get internal contact with even lower level
> activists in a newly created party in each country/state.
> get contact with one or two activist... talk of the hope, the influence
> they could get, the need of good regulation to allo LENR at home (like
> allowing LENR at home, proposing reinsurance of the govt for blackswan, no
> subsidies but reorganization of education, or public research...)...
>
>
> some will contact the news free-market party where there was none before..
> some will contact the local statist party where there was not before...
> some wil contact the pirate party, where it is new...
> some wil contact the religious, or the secular party where it is
> newcommer...
> some will contact the green if they are new...
> some will contact the farme party, or an imigrant community party...
>
>
>
> try to enter the radar of the newcommers...
>
> not only they may hear you, but the old party will hear you there too, and
> wll take you mere seriously if you are in a challenger party, than if you
> were begging support
>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Alain Sepeda]

2014/1/7 Lennart Thornros 

> Axil, your say that "LENR may be a new force, a catalyst, and an
> amplifier for great social change." is always the visionaries point of
> view. My experience tells me to be much more cynical. *Every politician
> in the world will have promoted LENR and therefore should be renumerated
> and given impact on the implementation. Lobby * . . .  . I hope you are
> right and I am wrong.
>

If some people ask themselves what they can do about LENR transition, I
have an answer.
We have to get a foot in politic to avoid the old parrty to protect the old
lobbies...

a beloved politic expert told me that if you want the things to change, you
have to influence politic, by lobbying (moaning in public, mail, party,
NGO)...
the best way could be to get internal contact with even lower level
activists in a newly created party in each country/state.
get contact with one or two activist... talk of the hope, the influence
they could get, the need of good regulation to allo LENR at home (like
allowing LENR at home, proposing reinsurance of the govt for blackswan, no
subsidies but reorganization of education, or public research...)...


some will contact the news free-market party where there was none before..
some will contact the local statist party where there was not before...
some wil contact the pirate party, where it is new...
some wil contact the religious, or the secular party where it is
newcommer...
some will contact the green if they are new...
some will contact the farme party, or an imigrant community party...



try to enter the radar of the newcommers...

not only they may hear you, but the old party will hear you there too, and
wll take you mere seriously if you are in a challenger party, than if you
were begging support

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

Learning to live in this universe is a hard thing. With new knowledge comes
new challenges.

At the dawn of the atomic age, the men who gave it birth saw the new
challenge.

"When you see something that is technically sweet, you go ahead and do it
and argue about what to do about it only after you've had your technical
success.

But when you come right down to it the reason that we did this job is
because it was an organic necessity. If you are a scientist you cannot stop
such a thing. If you are a scientist you believe that it is good to find
out how the world works; that it is good to find out what the realities
are; that it is good to turn over to mankind at large the greatest possible
power to control the world and to deal with it according to its lights and
its values.
We knew the world would not be the same. Few people laughed, few people
cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu
scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that
he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and
says, "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all
thought that, one way or another."

Robert Oppenheimer


On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Lennart Thornros wrote:

> Yes, Axil this is reality and we just need to stop focusing about what is
> gone. That does not mean to build companies to provide jobs. Jobs must be
> the logical consequences of providing good attractive products.
> We need to understand that in most places the population are happy for
> much less than what we want. I think we need to accept that as part of the
> evolution and let the near future improvement benefit the not so well
> off.If we let them they will quickly be at our demand level. China for
> example has made enormous improvement in living standard (I am eyewitness
> to that). That is not because the government wanted that. No, much more
> important is the internet for example. You can not suppress people with old
> myth theological or political  when they are constant bombarded with
> information about the opposite. I thought that the biggest problem was to
> support and give a good standard of living to the for ever increasing
> population on this planet. LENR might be a very good answer to that. Keep
> it away from the politicians and get the entrepreneurs on board. BTW LENR
> will make jobs in the US too.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650
>
> “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a
> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> If the past is prolog...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html
>>
>>
>> Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only
>> option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a
>> Chinese factory to revamp 
>> iPhonemanufacturing
>>  just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had
>> redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line
>> overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.
>>
>> A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s
>> dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit
>> and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a
>> 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours,
>> the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.
>>
>> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s
>> no American plant that can match that.”
>>
>>
>> But as Steven P. 
>> Jobsof
>> Applespoke,
>>  President
>> Obamainterrupted
>>  with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones
>> in the United States?
>>
>>
>> Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.
>>
>> Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,”
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:45 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>>  US may catch up China in the LENR race but then outscore the production
>>>
>>> to China and after some time sell of the technology to them.
>>>
>>> Torulf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:14:13 -0500, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
>>>  *That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build
>>> factories.*
>>>
>>> Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words reveal you to be.
>>> But this is how it is a

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Lennart Thornros]

Yes, Axil this is reality and we just need to stop focusing about what is
gone. That does not mean to build companies to provide jobs. Jobs must be
the logical consequences of providing good attractive products.
We need to understand that in most places the population are happy for much
less than what we want. I think we need to accept that as part of the
evolution and let the near future improvement benefit the not so well
off.If we let them they will quickly be at our demand level. China for
example has made enormous improvement in living standard (I am eyewitness
to that). That is not because the government wanted that. No, much more
important is the internet for example. You can not suppress people with old
myth theological or political  when they are constant bombarded with
information about the opposite. I thought that the biggest problem was to
support and give a good standard of living to the for ever increasing
population on this planet. LENR might be a very good answer to that. Keep
it away from the politicians and get the entrepreneurs on board. BTW LENR
will make jobs in the US too.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> If the past is prolog...
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html
>
>
> Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only
> option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a
> Chinese factory to revamp 
> iPhonemanufacturing
>  just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had
> redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line
> overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.
>
> A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s
> dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit
> and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a
> 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours,
> the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.
>
> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s
> no American plant that can match that.”
>
>
> But as Steven P. 
> Jobsof
> Applespoke,
>  President
> Obamainterrupted
>  with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones
> in the United States?
>
>
> Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.
>
> Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,”
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:45 PM,  wrote:
>
>>  US may catch up China in the LENR race but then outscore the production
>>
>> to China and after some time sell of the technology to them.
>>
>> Torulf
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:14:13 -0500, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>  *That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build
>> factories.*
>>
>> Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words reveal you to be.
>> But this is how it is all over the world today and the advent of LENR will
>> unfortunately not affect this attitude in the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Like you, a "great princess" once said *"Let them eat cake*”. Many of
>> her class who shared this same attitude eventually lost their heads as a
>> consequence; but now again in this modern age; LENR may be a new force, a
>> catalyst, and an amplifier for great social change.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

"My experience tells me to be much more cynical."

I agree, Great social change does not need to be good.


On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Lennart Thornros wrote:

> Torulf, I think you are philosophizing about an issue that has no
> relevance. Some politician might agree with you. However, who is going to
> manufacture, sell and distribute LENR reactors is not decided one iota from
> the fact that a functional LENR reactor is engineered here or there.
> Neither does it matter from an economical point of view where the theory is
> verified.
> I understand that it would be beneficial in some ways if people who
> understand the theory was not moved to the back office as the products are
> implemented. (the scientific acknowledgement would still be there). My two
> cents to that discussion is to suggest to you guys who have the theoretical
> knowledge and ideas to make liaisons with entrepreneurs and  capital
> sources that easily will see the benefit. The low hanging fruit. I am not
> saying that is a must. Just striving for the science acknowledgement might
> be just as good.
>
> Axil, your say that "LENR may be a new force, a catalyst, and an
> amplifier for great social change." is always the visionaries point of
> view. My experience tells me to be much more cynical. Every politician in
> the world will have promoted LENR and therefore should be renumerated and
> given impact on the implementation. Lobby  . . .  . I hope you are right
> and I am wrong.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
> www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
> 6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650
>
> “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a
> commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:45 AM,  wrote:
>
>>  US may catch up China in the LENR race but then outscore the production
>>
>> to China and after some time sell of the technology to them.
>>
>> Torulf
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:14:13 -0500, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>  *That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build
>> factories.*
>>
>> Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words reveal you to be.
>> But this is how it is all over the world today and the advent of LENR will
>> unfortunately not affect this attitude in the least.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Like you, a "great princess" once said *"Let them eat cake*”. Many of
>> her class who shared this same attitude eventually lost their heads as a
>> consequence; but now again in this modern age; LENR may be a new force, a
>> catalyst, and an amplifier for great social change.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

If the past is prolog...



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html


Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only
option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a
Chinese factory to revamp
iPhonemanufacturing
just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had
redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line
overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s
dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit
and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a
12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours,
the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s
no American plant that can match that.”


But as Steven P.
Jobsof
Applespoke,
President
Obamainterrupted
with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones
in the United States?


Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.

Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,”


On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:45 PM,  wrote:

>  US may catch up China in the LENR race but then outscore the production
>
> to China and after some time sell of the technology to them.
>
> Torulf
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:14:13 -0500, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>  *That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build
> factories.*
>
> Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words reveal you to be.
> But this is how it is all over the world today and the advent of LENR will
> unfortunately not affect this attitude in the least.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Like you, a "great princess" once said *"Let them eat cake*”. Many of her
> class who shared this same attitude eventually lost their heads as a
> consequence; but now again in this modern age; LENR may be a new force, a
> catalyst, and an amplifier for great social change.
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Lennart Thornros]

Torulf, I think you are philosophizing about an issue that has no
relevance. Some politician might agree with you. However, who is going to
manufacture, sell and distribute LENR reactors is not decided one iota from
the fact that a functional LENR reactor is engineered here or there.
Neither does it matter from an economical point of view where the theory is
verified.
I understand that it would be beneficial in some ways if people who
understand the theory was not moved to the back office as the products are
implemented. (the scientific acknowledgement would still be there). My two
cents to that discussion is to suggest to you guys who have the theoretical
knowledge and ideas to make liaisons with entrepreneurs and  capital
sources that easily will see the benefit. The low hanging fruit. I am not
saying that is a must. Just striving for the science acknowledgement might
be just as good.

Axil, your say that "LENR may be a new force, a catalyst, and an amplifier
for great social change." is always the visionaries point of view. My
experience tells me to be much more cynical. Every politician in the world
will have promoted LENR and therefore should be renumerated and given
impact on the implementation. Lobby  . . .  . I hope you are right and I am
wrong.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:45 AM,  wrote:

>  US may catch up China in the LENR race but then outscore the production
>
> to China and after some time sell of the technology to them.
>
> Torulf
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:14:13 -0500, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>  *That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build
> factories.*
>
> Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words reveal you to be.
> But this is how it is all over the world today and the advent of LENR will
> unfortunately not affect this attitude in the least.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Like you, a "great princess" once said *"Let them eat cake*”. Many of her
> class who shared this same attitude eventually lost their heads as a
> consequence; but now again in this modern age; LENR may be a new force, a
> catalyst, and an amplifier for great social change.
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[torulf.greek]

 US may catch up China in the LENR race but then outscore the
production 

to China and after some time sell of the technology to
them. 

Torulf 

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 23:14:13 -0500, Axil Axil  wrote: 


_THAT WILL BE THEIR PROBLEM. IT WILL NOT STOP THE PEOPLE WHO BUILD
FACTORIES._ 

Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words
reveal you to be. But this is how it is all over the world today and the
advent of LENR will unfortunately not affect this attitude in the least.


Like you, a "great princess" once said "LET THEM EAT CAKE". Many of
her class who shared this same attitude eventually lost their heads as a
consequence; but now again in this modern age; LENR may be a new force,
a catalyst, and an amplifier for great social change. 

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

*That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build
factories.*

Spoken like an insensitive plutocrat that these words reveal you to be. But
this is how it is all over the world today and the advent of LENR will
unfortunately not affect this attitude in the least.









Like you, a "great princess" once said *"Let them eat cake*”. Many of her
class who shared this same attitude eventually lost their heads as a
consequence; but now again in this modern age; LENR may be a new force, a
catalyst, and an amplifier for great social change.




>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[a.ashfield]

Ed Storms,

I think you underestimate Rossi by saying he doesn't understand it. 
Consider that he has access to the data and others don't.Consider how 
quickly he devised the Hot Cat after the E-Cats.


Further, I think future progress is already more of a control and 
engineering problem than a physicist's.


I don't think "The evidence is overwhelming that LENR will be the source 
of energy for the future." Sure, the evidence for LENR is, but the only 
proof that it is the "energy of the future" is the evidence Rossi has 
produced, and many don't think that is good enough.If the COP is less 
than 6 it is not that great for making electricity.What about LFTRs for 
example?


I basically agree with Jed that it will not take long for American 
companies to catch up with the proviso that the patent mess may well 
cause undue delay and certainly cost a lot of money.The courts are more 
of a problem that any government regulations.


On Axil's comment about massive unemployment.In the short to medium term 
there will be more jobs installing LENR/ maintaining them all over and 
in most homes.In the long run it will add to the trend of greater 
permanent unemployment for which the idea of giving all citizens a 
living wage with no strings attached is probably the best solution.LENR 
will help make this affordable.No, I don't think Congress is presently 
capable of seeing this.


Smart people will still work and will be paid more.

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Eric Walker]

Concerning the possibility that China will quietly pursue LENR technology
with the help of Rossi's knowledge transfer and then break out all of a
sudden, this is something to think about.  Doing this could give them an
edge over western countries, where entrenched interests are threatened by
LENR and have prevented governments from funding basic research.  Consider:

   - LENR devices are likely to be manufactured in China and other
   developing countries under any scenario, where the labor is cheaper, even
   if the designs end up being done in London, California, Massachusetts,
   Toronto, etc.  Supply chains are mostly multinational these days and
   generally lead back to manufacturing centers in Asia.
   - It is possible for the same countries that provide the primary
   manufacturing centers to also start to eat away at the design -- recall
   Haier today, an emerging leader in the appliances space, as well as Toyota,
   Mitsubishi, Sony, Hyundai, etc., during a previous generation.  The Asian
   car and electronics companies became dominant, the German manufacturers
   held on to the high end, and the American manufacturers fell into hard
   times.  Americans these days will by a Japanese or Korean car without
   giving the matter a second thought.  These cars are considered high quality
   and cutting edge.

Although certain types of knowledge transfer very quickly these days, other
kinds transfer more slowly.  Building out a capital intensive industrial
operation requires people with specific experience, possibly generations of
trial and error and refinement, and local governments that are supportive.
 Even building out a specific kind of economic sector, whether it is
capital intensive or not, is an undertaking.  This is why Silicon Valley
still has a little bit of an edge (although this is no doubt slipping away).

So the likely outcome of a silent race ahead by China in the LENR space
seems to be somewhere between inconsequential, on one hand, because
consumers all over the world will speak with their pocketbooks; and dire,
on the other, because nobody else will be able to catch up.  Instead it's
likely to give the Chinese a valuable lead, similar to the one they are
gaining in the green technology space right now.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Lennart Thornros]

Ed Storms, yes it is gloom and the only reason is disbelieve in a positive
attitude.I agree that it has similarities with global warming problems,
when it comes to difficulties to communicate. Something several people has
mentioned. The big difference is that LENR has a positive message with
promise of abundant energy. Global warming is just requiring to lower the
standard. The right communication to the people first enjoying benefits and
who has money. You do not need to convince the ignorant. You need to sell
the message to those having a benefit. I think sometimes greed and secrecy
is in the way for selling the idea. I have followed the LENR discussion for
at least three years. I still have problems to tell third party whyLENR is
plausible. The information is guarded for no good reason.

 I define success a little different than you do. I think success always is
personal. The success is based on achieving personal goals at a rate
predetermined. (Paul J. Meyer has a good definition see the web.
In my meaning the outcome depends on ones attitude toward solving the
problem. I think there is a fantastic knowledge and this blog is full of
ideas to explain the science. I only grasp a fraction. However, there is
nobody selling the concept. I understand that it would be good if we could
buy half the congress. Not a practical shoestring budget - those guys want
$.

Why are you concerned about that it happens first in the US? I agree we
have the best capacity for many reasons and if played right will have a
major impact on the implementation. Just find partners that can see the
benefit. I do not live in Sweden - I am born there and spent 45 years there
but today I am a US citizen (CA). I have some experience and understand why
Sweden has an interest. In short spoiled with hydropower handling all
electrical needs at a low price. Plenty of Nuclear plants, which we decided
to close down because of the early detection of the disposal problem. They
should all have been closed but it is a little slow. Now they have a need.
It is not such a smart leadership it is the need. This time of the year
plus minus 3 months I am glad to not live in Sweden - it is darn dark.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Edmund Storms  wrote:

> Lennant, this is neither gloom or self-fulfilling prophecy. It is an
> effort to get the ignorant to pay attention to a serious threat. I used
> global warming as an example because it has the same characteristics. The
> ignorant will not accept the advice of knowledgeable people in this example
> or about the threat of LENR.  Some excuse is always found to ignore good
> advice.
>
> Success in every part of life depends on making the correct decision, both
> personally and by a country.  The failures are always obvious after the
> fact. However, during the process of self destruction, a small group are
> always aware of what is happening and the mistakes being made.  The outcome
> will depend on whether they are listened to or ignored. Your choice.  And
> yes, I agree Sweden is the right place in the West for the technology to
> develop.  You should be proud that the leaders in your country understand
> the problem.  Unfortunately, I do not live in Sweden.
>
> Ed Storms
>
> On Jan 5, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Lennart Thornros wrote:
>
> Doom and gloom.
> Self fulfilling prophecy.
> I think you are right to be cautious. I agree with that there are reasons
> to say that China and other not so well off countries will be able to swing
> forward because they might see the opportunity and are 'hungry'.. In itself
> that is positive. I think you will agree, there is enough energy to share.
> To believe that China or any third world country would have an advantage is
> "painting the devil on the wall" (and become scared). Reality is that the
> west has an advantage (as usual). I agree with that this is a situation
> when the west might lose some of its advantages. No, I did not say become
> less prosperous as I think a progression in the not so well off countries
> is a long term advantage.
> I usually agree with Ed Storms but I cannot support your logic here. You
> are obviously concerned about global warming and how we do not do enough.
> LENR would be a fantastic step forward maybe enough to revert what bad we
> have done for some time to increase the temperature on the planet. The
> global warming ideas has been sold poorly and there is no basic support
> from anyone not involved in science. LENR could be a popular way to achieve
> the goal. See the possibilities and react accordingly.
> I think Jed's comments are reality. This is not the days of Copernicus.
> The internet is here.
> Now is the question what to do? Hang up yo

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Edmund Storms]

Ok Jed, let me summarize what you believe. We have nothing to worry  
about. We only need to keep doing what we are doing and everything  
will work out.  If China figures out how LENR works, the rest of the  
world will know immediately and will able to compete without having to  
do anything more.  If Rossi makes the effect work, the knowledge can  
be taught to industry immediately without important delay. In other  
words, nothing I'm concerned about has any value. Just keep going down  
the same path and stop complaining.  Is that your message?


This being the case, I do not understanding why you are concerned  
about CF not being supported.  Your response to my concerns  
demonstrates you think all will work out ok in the long run. Nothing  
more needs to be done. We only need to wait untill Rossi or China  
discovers how to make the effect work and we all will be saved without  
any problems.  So why do YOU complain about how CF is treated? What  
would you do differently in view of your rejection of my concerns? Or  
do you like to argue only for the sake of the challenge?


Ed Storms

On Jan 5, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Edmund Storms  wrote:


Rossi clearly does not understand how the effect works. He was lucky  
and is now trying to find out why.


No one is that lucky. He knows a lot, and he and his coworkers are  
learning more every day.



  We have no way of knowing what the Chinese have learned.

We do too! Mizuno and I know, because we spoke with Arata's  
coworkers in Japanese. Mizuno coauthored their paper. Many Americans  
know what the Chinese collaborating with Rossi are up to.



The threat is the possibility they will find out and use this  
information more effectively than Rossi can.


I am sure they will use it more effectively than Rossi can. So will  
Mitsubishi and General Electric. Rossi agrees with me about that.



This is a huge risk that I would expect would be taken seriously,  
especially when the cost of countering the risk is trivial.


Of course it will be taken seriously. Once people realize that cold  
fusion is real, everyone will take it seriously. They will be  
spending a billion dollars a day on it.


That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or  
learning than anyone else.


You miss the point Jed. I said nothing about the general ability to  
learn, which is universal. The problem is teaching knowlege about a  
particular subject.


There is practically no knowledge about cold fusion! Once serious  
R&D begins, people will be learning more about it every week than  
they now learn in a year. There will be 500,000 to a million world  
class experts working frantically on this, just as there were on  
railroads, automobiles, airplanes, nuclear energy, computers,  
transistors and the genome when these technologies were hot.



 That knowledge has a lifetime because a lot of it is not in print.

It will all be in print soon.


That which is in print is hard to find and difficult to understand.  
This kind of knowledge is taught in university. No university  
teaches LENR.


No universities taught about DNA or transistors in 1952 either. They  
all did a decade later.



Even if you want to start the process, how many professors do you  
think are available?


As many as you want. Professors are cheap. You can train thousands  
of new ones in a short time.



I agree, the issue is how long it would take to rediscover the  
understanding while China is running ahead.


No time at all. The time it takes to fly a top expert and his family  
out of China to California, and have him cash a check for $5  
million. Or $50 million. If you do not think that would happen you  
know nothing about business.



 Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the  
world getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market.


R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project.  
R&D into transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM  
360 computer cost more than the Manhattan project in constant  
dollars.


And your point is???

My point is that a dozen Manhattan style R&D efforts will be  
launched in the U.S., the EU, Japan, China. Trillions of dollars of  
profit ensure this will happen.



We know that more bright physicists are in China than are in the US  
or in any other country.


No, there are not. Anyway, the EU and the US outnumber them, and we  
can train bright physicists as fast as they can.



If they are given the incentive to study LENR, which is not given in  
the West, they will understand it sooner. This is simple logic you  
cannot reject.


Suppose they do understand it sooner? We can catch up in a matter of  
months. As I said, we can hire their best people if that is what it  
takes. Or their second best people. How do you think the Japanese  
and Chinese caught up with the West? It can be done far more quickly  
now than it could in 1868, or 1975 when the Japanese de

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Eric Walker]

On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 4:58 PM, James Bowery  wrote:

China seems to be pursuing a hybrid command economy not unlike that often
> called "fascism".  ... Which is superior when it comes to exploiting
> technological opportunities?
>

China seems to be pursuing the path that Singapore pursued during the
previous century, and from which Singapore benefited greatly.  I have not
studied their economic development closely, but I get the impression that
they did not hesitate to ignore all kinds of liberal economic dogma
relating to free trade, free-market allocation of capital, etc.  Their
command economy and trade barriers brought them to a certain point in the
70s, 80s and 90s, and then they started to liberalize more.  They are
social engineers par excellence.  Every policy goal they wish to bring
about they find some way to attach monetary incentives.

I suspect China is closely following that model and will open up a
corresponding amount once its economy has a solid services sector.  England
did something similar with mercantilism during the renaissance and the
early modern period.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:


> So how does this relate to China?
>
> China seems to be pursuing a hybrid command economy not unlike that often
> called "fascism".
>

Yes, there are many similarities. And we should note that the German
fascist economy of the 1930s produce a lot of good technology, especially
military technology such as innovative aircraft. The Germans had a
combination of capitalism and a fascist command economy. National Socialism
was more capitalist than socialist, in my opinion.

The Chinese government is totalitarian and its economy is terribly screwed
up in ways many people are unaware of. There are tremendous bubbles in
things like condominium construction. However, their economy has great
strengths as well, and they have millions of highly skilled, clever, hard
working people. If cold fusion is commercialized I am sure they will make
vital contributions to it, and they will manufacture it, just as they
manufacture LED lights and a lot of other high technology. Even though the
government is totalitarian, I -- for one -- will welcome their
contributions to cold fusion. I think we have nothing to fear from their
taking an leading role in this technology. I hope the government eventually
reforms, but that is an unrelated issue.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Randy Wuller  wrote:


> The best of the best in the US are as good as the best of the best in the
> rest of the world.  Only the best of the best drive technology in today's
> world, most of the population are not needed to drive the economy and those
> needed are shrinking everyday.
>

My point exactly! We will not need millions of well-trained, disciplined
factory workers to implement cold fusion technology. It will be
manufactured by robots.



> Also, you can't hide technology anymore, if china develops LENR, everyone
> will know before you can blink.
>

I agree 100%.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[James Bowery]

Something I noticed while doing space policy legislation was that in the
post Apollo era the Soviets were delivering a lot more bang for the buck
than NASA -- I mean a _lot_ more.  My diagnosis of that phenomenon that
goes against the grain of both socialists and libertarians, is simply that
NASA was being turned into a communist bureaucracy -- competing with the US
private sector for what should have been commercial services -- and that
the Soviets were simply better at being commies than NASA.  I believe this
to be true of most of the service-delivering public sector in the US
compared to communist countries.

OK, so now the socialists don't like me, but here's one that will rub the
libertarians wrong:

When I worked to privatize the US launch industry and actually got
legislation passed, I went immediately to work for a private launch service
company as their VP of public affairs (E'Prime Aerospace).  The sad fact is
that so-called "capitalist" countries have chosen to subsidize wealth by
delivering the service of protecting property rights without charging a use
fee for those property rights -- what would amount to a wealth tax -- and
instead charges people for making productive use of their assets (including
their own human capital) in the form of taxes on economic activity.  This
creates risk-averse financial institutions with attendant capital market
failures that leave huge investment opportunities, that should be pursued
by risk capital, lying fallow.  Socialists rightfully point to these
capital market failures as failures of "capitalism" as it is implemented,
but their prescriptions attempt to treat symptoms rather than causes and
end up making the disease worse.

So how does this relate to China?

China seems to be pursuing a hybrid command economy not unlike that often
called "fascism".  We have to, now, compare the Chinese variant on fascism
with the west's "crony capitalism" variant on fascism.  Which is superior
when it comes to exploiting technological opportunities?  I suspect that
the long history of subsidized wealth in the West has given rise to a
particularly debilitated form of society and that, again, the more direct,
open and honest form of fascism pursued by China will win simply because by
being open and honest about their fascism, its going to function better.
 This, also, is bolstered by the long history of collectivist evolution in
China that renders their people more functional as component parts rather
than western individuals who have to painfully contort themselves to
conform.


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> There is a fundamental sociological difference between LENR energy
> production and the current energy infrastructure.
>
>
>
> 10s of millions of people worldwide are employed by the current energy
> infrastructure. It is one of the only economic areas that remain that are
> rich enough to provide a living wage.
>
>
>
> LENR on the other hand can originate out of an automated facture filled
> with robots and staffed by just a few hundred people. Most of the world’s
> energy needs can be met out of that type of factory automation.
>
>
>
> What will those untold millions do for a job when that LENR factory gets
> rolling?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> Edmund Storms  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>> Rossi clearly does not understand how the effect works. He was lucky and
>>> is now trying to find out why.
>>>
>>
>> No one is that lucky. He knows a lot, and he and his coworkers are
>> learning more every day.
>>
>>
>>   We have no way of knowing what the Chinese have learned.
>>>
>>
>> We do too! Mizuno and I know, because we spoke with Arata's coworkers in
>> Japanese. Mizuno coauthored their paper. Many Americans know what the
>> Chinese collaborating with Rossi are up to.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The threat is the possibility they will find out and use this
>>> information more effectively than Rossi can.
>>>
>>
>> I am sure they will use it more effectively than Rossi can. So will
>> Mitsubishi and General Electric. Rossi agrees with me about that.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  This is a huge risk that I would expect would be taken seriously,
>>> especially when the cost of countering the risk is trivial.
>>>
>>
>> Of course it will be taken seriously. Once people realize that cold
>> fusion is real, everyone will take it seriously. They will be spending a
>> billion dollars a day on it.
>>
>>  That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or
>>> learning than anyone else.
>>>
>>>
>>> You miss the point Jed. I said nothing about the general ability to
>>> learn, which is universal. The problem is teaching knowlege about a
>>> particular subject.
>>>
>>
>> There is practically no knowledge about cold fusion! Once serious R&D
>> begins, people will be learning more about it every week than they now
>> learn in a year. There will be 500,000 to a million world class experts
>> working frantically on this, just as there were on railro

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:


> 10s of millions of people worldwide are employed by the current energy
> infrastructure. It is one of the only economic areas that remain that are
> rich enough to provide a living wage.
>

That is not the case in the U.S. or Japan. See the Bureau of Labor
Statistics summary in chapter 20 of my book. Energy-related employment is a
minor sector; much smaller than semiconductors, retail, education or
healthcare, for example.

Cold fusion will cause unemployment and a gigantic loss of money in places
like Saudi Arabia and Russia, but the U.S. and Japanese manufacturers who
make cold fusion equipment will not care about that. I personally will not
care about that. That will be their problem, not ours.



> What will those untold millions do for a job when that LENR factory gets
> rolling?
>

That will be their problem. It will not stop the people who build factories.

Most American and Japanese consumers have no love for Exxon Mobile or BP,
so we won't miss them when they go bankrupt.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Randy Wuller]

Gentlemen:

The best of the best in the US are as good as the best of the best in the rest 
of the world.  Only the best of the best drive technology in today's world, 
most of the population are not needed to drive the economy and those needed are 
shrinking everyday.

Also, you can't hide technology anymore, if china develops LENR, everyone will 
know before you can blink.

Ransom

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 5, 2014, at 6:24 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
> 
> That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning 
> than anyone else. I attended elite universities in the U.S. and Japan. I 
> assure you, Asian kids are no smarter than Americans, Europeans, Russians or 
> Africans, and no culture has any special ability to educate people.
>  
> Jed your arguments are cut from whole cloth; that is to say not valid and 
> made up from wishful thinking.
>  
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/03/21733705-us-teens-lag-in-global-education-rankings-as-asian-countries-rise-to-the-top?lite
>  
> Roughly half a million students in 65 nations and educational systems 
> representing 80 percent of the global economy took part in the 2012 edition 
> of PISA, which is coordinated by the Paris-based Organization for Economic 
> Cooperation and Development, or OECD.
>  
> The numbers are even more sobering when compared among only the 34 OECD 
> countries. The United States ranked 26th in math — trailing nations such as 
> the Slovakia, Portugal and Russia. What’s more, American high school students 
> dropped to 21st in science (from 17th in 2009) and slipped to 17th in reading 
> (from 14th in 2009), according to the results.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
>> Edmund Storms  wrote:
>>  
>>> Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic understanding is 
>>> normally in place on which understanding of the new idea can be 
>>> constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has a basic 
>>> understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.  In addition, 
>>> the number of people who have even a rudimentary understanding is very 
>>> limited and growing older by the minuet.
>> 
>> No one in China understands it better than anyone in the U.S. The person who 
>> understands it best is Rossi, and he is here.
>>  
>>  
>>> No effective way exists in the West to teach this limited knowledge to the 
>>> next generation - to the scientists and engineers who would be needed to 
>>> manufacture the devices.
>> 
>> That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning 
>> than anyone else. I attended elite universities in the U.S. and Japan. I 
>> assure you, Asian kids are no smarter than Americans, Europeans, Russians or 
>> Africans, and no culture has any special ability to educate people.
>> 
>> 
>>>  A race is on is to acquire this knowledge and Rossi has a head start. If 
>>> this knowledge is being acquired and developed in China, the rest of the 
>>> world would have no access.
>> 
>> Anything Rossi can discover, others can rediscover. Even if a direct reverse 
>> engineering does not work, no secret of this nature can remain hidden for 
>> long.
>> 
>>  
>>>  Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the world 
>>> getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market. 
>> 
>> R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project. R&D into 
>> transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM 360 computer cost 
>> more than the Manhattan project in constant dollars.
>> 
>>  
>>>  If you suggest the device could be reverse engineered, you would be wrong. 
>>> If you propose using a lot of bright physicists to figure out the process, 
>>> you would also be wrong.
>> 
>> If bright physicists in China can figure it out, I am certain bright 
>> physicists in other countries can too. No major technology can remain secret 
>> for long. After Japan opened up in 1868 and began studying European and 
>> American technology, they caught up with every major military technology in 
>> 20 years. They were 100 years behind. In 1905 they defeated the Russian army 
>> and blew the navy out of the water.
>> 
>>  
>>> The active region is too unique and too small to allow reverse engineering 
>>> unless you know what to look for.
>> 
>> They will figure out what to look for! Or they will hire Chinese people who 
>> know.
>> 
>>  
>>> The physics profession has already demonstrated its basic inability to 
>>> explain the effect.  A physics education is actually a handicap.
>> 
>> First, not all physicists are uniform. I am sure there are many skilled 
>> senior physicists who could contribute to this research.
>> 
>> Second, Chinese physicists are not much different from ours. It is NOT 
>> POSSIBLE they will gain some magic understanding that Americans and others 
>> cannot possibly crack. That is not how the human mind works. There are no 
>> cultural or biological differences that would

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:


> The numbers are even more sobering when compared among only the 34 OECD
> countries. The United States ranked 26th in math — trailing nations such as
> the Slovakia, Portugal and Russia. What’s more, American high school
> students dropped to 21st in science (from 17th in 2009) and slipped to 17th
> in reading (from 14th in 2009), according to the results.
>

American culture has never put much value on academic study. It is
dismissed as "book learning." Visitors from Europe remarked on that in the
18th and 19th centuries. We do not care about history either. As Mark Twain
put it, we don't put no stock in dead people. Compared to people in Europe
or Japan, Americans know little about science. Many of them are strongly
opposed to things like evolution, which conflicts with their religion.

However, with a population of 300 million, you can find millions of smart
people who do value academics and science. I have been to universities
around the world, and studied at ones in the US and Japan. The students and
professors at elite universities in every country are as good as the ones
elsewhere. Stanford, Georgia Tech, and Cornell students work as hard and
know as much as students in London, Paris, Beijing or Tokyo. They work a
lot harder than students at the elite National Universities in Japan. (If
you don't work hard at Cornell, you flunk, which never happens in Japan.)

Even if we cannot find a few hundred thousand highly qualified freshmen
every year, we import large numbers of very smart people from other
countries. Our universities are now and have always been the most
cosmopolitan on earth. Even when Jefferson was setting up the University of
Virginia that was true. You don't find professors from a dozen other
countries in Japan or Beijing, but you do at any Ivy League school.

So, the fact that Americans in general are not well educated will have
little impact on cutting edge R&D on something like cold fusion, or the
human genome.

By the way, the educational attainments of Japanese students are somewhat
overrated, in my opinion. Japanese mass media articles on science are only
marginally more sophisticated or accurate than U.S. mass media articles.
Their mass media articles about cold fusion are as bad as ours. Their
political and technical leaders are as ignorant of cold fusion as ours are,
according to Mizuno and others who have met with them in recent years.
Japan has no advantage in cold fusion. I doubt that China does either.
Granted, I know much less about the situation there.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

There is a fundamental sociological difference between LENR energy
production and the current energy infrastructure.



10s of millions of people worldwide are employed by the current energy
infrastructure. It is one of the only economic areas that remain that are
rich enough to provide a living wage.



LENR on the other hand can originate out of an automated facture filled
with robots and staffed by just a few hundred people. Most of the world’s
energy needs can be met out of that type of factory automation.



What will those untold millions do for a job when that LENR factory gets
rolling?






On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Edmund Storms  wrote:
>
>
>>
> Rossi clearly does not understand how the effect works. He was lucky and
>> is now trying to find out why.
>>
>
> No one is that lucky. He knows a lot, and he and his coworkers are
> learning more every day.
>
>
>   We have no way of knowing what the Chinese have learned.
>>
>
> We do too! Mizuno and I know, because we spoke with Arata's coworkers in
> Japanese. Mizuno coauthored their paper. Many Americans know what the
> Chinese collaborating with Rossi are up to.
>
>
>
>> The threat is the possibility they will find out and use this information
>> more effectively than Rossi can.
>>
>
> I am sure they will use it more effectively than Rossi can. So will
> Mitsubishi and General Electric. Rossi agrees with me about that.
>
>
>
>>  This is a huge risk that I would expect would be taken seriously,
>> especially when the cost of countering the risk is trivial.
>>
>
> Of course it will be taken seriously. Once people realize that cold fusion
> is real, everyone will take it seriously. They will be spending a billion
> dollars a day on it.
>
> That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning
>> than anyone else.
>>
>>
>> You miss the point Jed. I said nothing about the general ability to
>> learn, which is universal. The problem is teaching knowlege about a
>> particular subject.
>>
>
> There is practically no knowledge about cold fusion! Once serious R&D
> begins, people will be learning more about it every week than they now
> learn in a year. There will be 500,000 to a million world class experts
> working frantically on this, just as there were on railroads, automobiles,
> airplanes, nuclear energy, computers, transistors and the genome when these
> technologies were hot.
>
>
>
>>  That knowledge has a lifetime because a lot of it is not in print.
>>
>
> It will all be in print soon.
>
>
>  That which is in print is hard to find and difficult to understand. This
>> kind of knowledge is taught in university. No university teaches LENR.
>>
>
> No universities taught about DNA or transistors in 1952 either. They all
> did a decade later.
>
>
>
>> Even if you want to start the process, how many professors do you think
>> are available?
>>
>
> As many as you want. Professors are cheap. You can train thousands of new
> ones in a short time.
>
>
>
>> I agree, the issue is how long it would take to rediscover the
>> understanding while China is running ahead.
>>
>
> No time at all. The time it takes to fly a top expert and his family out
> of China to California, and have him cash a check for $5 million. Or $50
> million. If you do not think that would happen you know nothing about
> business.
>
>
>
>>   Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the
>>> world getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market.
>>>
>>
>> R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project. R&D into
>> transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM 360 computer cost
>> more than the Manhattan project in constant dollars.
>>
>>
>> And your point is???
>>
>
> My point is that a dozen Manhattan style R&D efforts will be launched in
> the U.S., the EU, Japan, China. Trillions of dollars of profit ensure this
> will happen.
>
>
>
>> We know that more bright physicists are in China than are in the US or in
>> any other country.
>>
>
> No, there are not. Anyway, the EU and the US outnumber them, and we can
> train bright physicists as fast as they can.
>
>
>
>>  If they are given the incentive to study LENR, which is not given in the
>> West, they will understand it sooner. This is simple logic you cannot
>> reject.
>>
>
> Suppose they do understand it sooner? We can catch up in a matter of
> months. As I said, we can hire their best people if that is what it takes.
> Or their second best people. How do you think the Japanese and Chinese
> caught up with the West? It can be done far more quickly now than it could
> in 1868, or 1975 when the Japanese decided to get serious about making
> computers.
>
> Technical information can no longer be kept secret. This is not 1900 or
> 1950.
>
>
>
>> This is not secret technology. This is IGNORANCE about a function of
>> nature.  We are like a person from 1800 who came forward in time and was
>> confronted with explaining how a cell phone wo

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Edmund Storms  wrote:


>
Rossi clearly does not understand how the effect works. He was lucky and is
> now trying to find out why.
>

No one is that lucky. He knows a lot, and he and his coworkers are learning
more every day.


  We have no way of knowing what the Chinese have learned.
>

We do too! Mizuno and I know, because we spoke with Arata's coworkers in
Japanese. Mizuno coauthored their paper. Many Americans know what the
Chinese collaborating with Rossi are up to.



> The threat is the possibility they will find out and use this information
> more effectively than Rossi can.
>

I am sure they will use it more effectively than Rossi can. So will
Mitsubishi and General Electric. Rossi agrees with me about that.



>  This is a huge risk that I would expect would be taken seriously,
> especially when the cost of countering the risk is trivial.
>

Of course it will be taken seriously. Once people realize that cold fusion
is real, everyone will take it seriously. They will be spending a billion
dollars a day on it.

That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning
> than anyone else.
>
>
> You miss the point Jed. I said nothing about the general ability to learn,
> which is universal. The problem is teaching knowlege about a particular
> subject.
>

There is practically no knowledge about cold fusion! Once serious R&D
begins, people will be learning more about it every week than they now
learn in a year. There will be 500,000 to a million world class experts
working frantically on this, just as there were on railroads, automobiles,
airplanes, nuclear energy, computers, transistors and the genome when these
technologies were hot.



>  That knowledge has a lifetime because a lot of it is not in print.
>

It will all be in print soon.


 That which is in print is hard to find and difficult to understand. This
> kind of knowledge is taught in university. No university teaches LENR.
>

No universities taught about DNA or transistors in 1952 either. They all
did a decade later.



> Even if you want to start the process, how many professors do you think
> are available?
>

As many as you want. Professors are cheap. You can train thousands of new
ones in a short time.



> I agree, the issue is how long it would take to rediscover the
> understanding while China is running ahead.
>

No time at all. The time it takes to fly a top expert and his family out of
China to California, and have him cash a check for $5 million. Or $50
million. If you do not think that would happen you know nothing about
business.



>   Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the world
>> getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market.
>>
>
> R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project. R&D into
> transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM 360 computer cost
> more than the Manhattan project in constant dollars.
>
>
> And your point is???
>

My point is that a dozen Manhattan style R&D efforts will be launched in
the U.S., the EU, Japan, China. Trillions of dollars of profit ensure this
will happen.



> We know that more bright physicists are in China than are in the US or in
> any other country.
>

No, there are not. Anyway, the EU and the US outnumber them, and we can
train bright physicists as fast as they can.



>  If they are given the incentive to study LENR, which is not given in the
> West, they will understand it sooner. This is simple logic you cannot
> reject.
>

Suppose they do understand it sooner? We can catch up in a matter of
months. As I said, we can hire their best people if that is what it takes.
Or their second best people. How do you think the Japanese and Chinese
caught up with the West? It can be done far more quickly now than it could
in 1868, or 1975 when the Japanese decided to get serious about making
computers.

Technical information can no longer be kept secret. This is not 1900 or
1950.



> This is not secret technology. This is IGNORANCE about a function of
> nature.  We are like a person from 1800 who came forward in time and was
> confronted with explaining how a cell phone works.
>

At this moment, no one in China or Japan knows better than the people in
the U.S. If they do learn something, they will teach it to us. All it takes
is money to persuade them.




> How long do you thing it would take to come up with an answer?
>

The flight time from Beijing to San Francisco, as I said.


> They will figure out what to look for! Or they will hire Chinese people
> who know.
>
>
> Yes, they will try. The issue is scale.
>

We can match the scale of any R&D enterprise in the world.



> Yes bright people would contribute if they have the incentive. This
> incentive is not provided in the West.
>

IT WILL BE PROVIDED. That's my point. The incentive will consist of a
trillion dollars of profit, there for the taking. The absolute dominance in
every major heavy industry from automotive to aerospace, to power
gen

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

*That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning
than anyone else. I attended elite universities in the U.S. and Japan. I
assure you, Asian kids are no smarter than Americans, Europeans, Russians
or Africans, and no culture has any special ability to educate people.*



Jed your arguments are cut from whole cloth; that is to say not valid and
made up from wishful thinking.



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/03/21733705-us-teens-lag-in-global-education-rankings-as-asian-countries-rise-to-the-top?lite



Roughly half a million students in 65 nations and educational systems
representing 80 percent of the global economy took part in the 2012 edition
of PISA, which is coordinated by the Paris-based Organization for Economic
Cooperation and Development, or OECD.



The numbers are even more sobering when compared among only the 34 OECD
countries. The United States ranked 26th in math — trailing nations such as
the Slovakia, Portugal and Russia. What’s more, American high school
students dropped to 21st in science (from 17th in 2009) and slipped to 17th
in reading (from 14th in 2009), according to the results.







On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Edmund Storms  wrote:
>
>
>> Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic understanding
>> is normally in place on which understanding of the new idea can be
>> constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has a basic
>> understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.  In addition,
>> the number of people who have even a rudimentary understanding is very
>> limited and growing older by the minuet.
>>
>
> No one in China understands it better than anyone in the U.S. The person
> who understands it best is Rossi, and he is here.
>
>
>
>> No effective way exists in the West to teach this limited knowledge to
>> the next generation - to the scientists and engineers who would be needed
>> to manufacture the devices.
>>
>
> That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning
> than anyone else. I attended elite universities in the U.S. and Japan. I
> assure you, Asian kids are no smarter than Americans, Europeans, Russians
> or Africans, and no culture has any special ability to educate people.
>
>
>   A race is on is to acquire this knowledge and Rossi has a head start. If
>> this knowledge is being acquired and developed in China, the rest of the
>> world would have no access.
>>
>
>  Anything Rossi can discover, others can rediscover. Even if a direct
> reverse engineering does not work, no secret of this nature can remain
> hidden for long.
>
>
>
>>   Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the world
>> getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market.
>>
>
> R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project. R&D into
> transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM 360 computer cost
> more than the Manhattan project in constant dollars.
>
>
>
>>  If you suggest the device could be reverse engineered, you would be
>> wrong. If you propose using a lot of bright physicists to figure out the
>> process, you would also be wrong.
>>
>
> If bright physicists in China can figure it out, I am certain bright
> physicists in other countries can too. No major technology can remain
> secret for long. After Japan opened up in 1868 and began studying European
> and American technology, they caught up with every major military
> technology in 20 years. They were 100 years behind. In 1905 they defeated
> the Russian army and blew the navy out of the water.
>
>
>
>> The active region is too unique and too small to allow reverse
>> engineering unless you know what to look for.
>>
>
> They will figure out what to look for! Or they will hire Chinese people
> who know.
>
>
>
>>  The physics profession has already demonstrated its basic inability to
>> explain the effect.  A physics education is actually a handicap.
>>
>
> First, not all physicists are uniform. I am sure there are many skilled
> senior physicists who could contribute to this research.
>
> Second, Chinese physicists are not much different from ours. It is NOT
> POSSIBLE they will gain some magic understanding that Americans and others
> cannot possibly crack. That is not how the human mind works. There are no
> cultural or biological differences that would allow that.
>
> Third, there is a new crop of physicists every years. After it becomes
> generally known that cold fusion is real, for the next generation the best
> and brightest of them will go into cold fusion, just as they went into
> nuclear physics and semiconductors in the past.
>
>
>  Consequently, once the West wakes up and discovers it needs to compete
>> with China, most of the present information will have been lost from the
>> West and rediscovering the knowledge will take too long.
>>
>
> The West will wake up to this fact about a week after people in China do.
> This is the 21st century. 

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Edmund Storms]

Lennant, this is neither gloom or self-fulfilling prophecy. It is an  
effort to get the ignorant to pay attention to a serious threat. I  
used global warming as an example because it has the same  
characteristics. The ignorant will not accept the advice of  
knowledgeable people in this example or about the threat of LENR.   
Some excuse is always found to ignore good advice.


Success in every part of life depends on making the correct decision,  
both personally and by a country.  The failures are always obvious  
after the fact. However, during the process of self destruction, a  
small group are always aware of what is happening and the mistakes  
being made.  The outcome will depend on whether they are listened to  
or ignored. Your choice.  And yes, I agree Sweden is the right place  
in the West for the technology to develop.  You should be proud that  
the leaders in your country understand the problem.  Unfortunately, I  
do not live in Sweden.


Ed Storms
On Jan 5, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Lennart Thornros wrote:


Doom and gloom.
Self fulfilling prophecy.
I think you are right to be cautious. I agree with that there are  
reasons to say that China and other not so well off countries will  
be able to swing forward because they might see the opportunity and  
are 'hungry'.. In itself that is positive. I think you will agree,  
there is enough energy to share. To believe that China or any third  
world country would have an advantage is "painting the devil on the  
wall" (and become scared). Reality is that the west has an advantage  
(as usual). I agree with that this is a situation when the west  
might lose some of its advantages. No, I did not say become less  
prosperous as I think a progression in the not so well off countries  
is a long term advantage.
I usually agree with Ed Storms but I cannot support your logic here.  
You are obviously concerned about global warming and how we do not  
do enough. LENR would be a fantastic step forward maybe enough to  
revert what bad we have done for some time to increase the  
temperature on the planet. The global warming ideas has been sold  
poorly and there is no basic support from anyone not involved in  
science. LENR could be a popular way to achieve the goal. See the  
possibilities and react accordingly.
I think Jed's comments are reality. This is not the days of  
Copernicus. The internet is here.
Now is the question what to do? Hang up your hat as we are too old  
(70)?
I think that it is not an opportunity to find the solution and  
become rich. As little as the Wright brothers benefited big times  
from aviation as little will Rossi benefit from LENR. Refining the  
process will make the initial patent rather obsolete and refining  
will start when we have full understanding.
Instead we need to focus on spreading the knowledge. I appreciate  
that we need a lot of science support and that it would be good to  
have support financially from government or big corporations.You are  
stating on this blog? that i t is impossible for many reasons. Do  
you think having support from the communistic Chinese government is  
doable? No. I think Rossi is doing something right when he use  
Swedish Vattenfall (yes, I am a Naturalized Swede). Because they  
have the right position to benefit from the technology. I am sure we  
can identify many other possible partners. As usual in all  
development, small and big, the management and the marketing is what  
is needed. Instead of doom and gloom we need to educate and  
advertise to all parties, which will benefit from the technology  
step. That work is just as important as the scientific side of the  
development. Using the internet and our very good ability to design  
teams for building a lose but strong organization is my idea for not  
hanging up the hat but to do something. I am sure there are others  
with more specific ideas and I wish they brought them forward.


Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a  
commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.”  
PJM



On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
Well put Ed Storms. Jed as always is a cornucopian. LENR has a huge  
political foot print in the U.S; Five million very high paying jobs  
are at stake in the energy production segments and fuel  
transportation and distribution economy.


In the immediate first pass, all those jobs whose average salary is  
about double the national average would easily shipped off shore to  
Chinese LENR factory production facilities.


The American population could not stand such an economic and  
political shock. Letting the American car industry to go under is  
only a mere shadow of what will happen when Chinese LENR is in full  
swing.


America will enter a deep depression with little prospects of  
competi

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

 Well put Ed Storms. Jed as always is a cornucopian.
>

I am, but that has nothing to do with it. I was educated in the U.S. and
Japan, and I learned a lot about Chinese literature, history and
anthropology. I know that Asian people and their cultures have no magic
ability to understand technology any better than anyone else. There is not
the slightest chance this technology can be kept secret in China. That's
ridiculous.

As I said, even if a Chinese company or government lab were to get a year
ahead of the rest of the world, someone would hire their best experts for
millions of dollars, spirit them out of the country, and have them
replicate the devices elsewhere. Once the technique is out, any major
industrial company will be able to replicate it. Rossi does not have hugely
expensive hi-tech facilities. Whatever his secrets may be, they are cannot
be difficult to replicate.



> LENR has a huge political foot print in the U.S; Five million very high
> paying jobs are at stake in the energy production segments and fuel
> transportation and distribution economy.
>

Conventional energy has a huge footprint in China and every other country
as well. I am sure the fossil fuel companies will try to stop cold fusion
just as they are trying to stop wind turbines, but I am sure they will
fail. Nothing -- no power on earth -- can prevent millions of people from
getting their hands on machines that will save the average American family
$8,000 a year. The fossil fuel interests may publish ads and pay millions
to buy off Members of Congress to try to stop cold fusion, but ordinary
voters and consumers will soon wake up the the fact that they are missing
out on a technology that will save them vast amounts of money. They will
blow off the special interests like a hurricane blowing a dandelion. The
Congress will do nothing against the expressed interests of the vast
majority of voters.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Edmund Storms]

On Jan 5, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Edmund Storms  wrote:

Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic  
understanding is normally in place on which understanding of the new  
idea can be constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has  
a basic understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.   
In addition, the number of people who have even a rudimentary  
understanding is very limited and growing older by the minuet.


No one in China understands it better than anyone in the U.S. The  
person who understands it best is Rossi, and he is here.


Rossi clearly does not understand how the effect works. He was lucky  
and is now trying to find out why.   We have no way of knowing what  
the Chinese have learned. The threat is the possibility they will find  
out and use this information more effectively than Rossi can. This is  
a huge risk that I would expect would be taken seriously, especially  
when the cost of countering the risk is trivial.



No effective way exists in the West to teach this limited knowledge  
to the next generation - to the scientists and engineers who would  
be needed to manufacture the devices.


That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or  
learning than anyone else.


You miss the point Jed. I said nothing about the general ability to  
learn, which is universal. The problem is teaching knowlege about a  
particular subject.  That knowledge has a lifetime because a lot of it  
is not in print. That which is in print is hard to find and difficult  
to understand. This kind of knowledge is taught in university. No  
university teaches LENR. Even if you want to start the process, how  
many professors do you think are available?


I attended elite universities in the U.S. and Japan. I assure you,  
Asian kids are no smarter than Americans, Europeans, Russians or  
Africans, and no culture has any special ability to educate people.



 A race is on is to acquire this knowledge and Rossi has a head  
start. If this knowledge is being acquired and developed in China,  
the rest of the world would have no access.


Anything Rossi can discover, others can rediscover. Even if a direct  
reverse engineering does not work, no secret of this nature can  
remain hidden for long.


I agree, the issue is how long it would take to rediscover the  
understanding while China is running ahead.



 Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the  
world getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market.


R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project. R&D  
into transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM 360  
computer cost more than the Manhattan project in constant dollars.


And your point is???



 If you suggest the device could be reverse engineered, you would be  
wrong. If you propose using a lot of bright physicists to figure out  
the process, you would also be wrong.


If bright physicists in China can figure it out, I am certain bright  
physicists in other countries can too.


We know that more bright physicists are in China than are in the US or  
in any other country. If they are given the incentive to study LENR,  
which is not given in the West, they will understand it sooner. This  
is simple logic you cannot reject.


No major technology can remain secret for long. After Japan opened  
up in 1868 and began studying European and American technology, they  
caught up with every major military technology in 20 years. They  
were 100 years behind. In 1905 they defeated the Russian army and  
blew the navy out of the water.


This is not secret technology. This is IGNORANCE about a function of  
nature.  We are like a person from 1800 who came forward in time and  
was confronted with explaining how a cell phone works. How long do you  
thing it would take to come up with an answer?



The active region is too unique and too small to allow reverse  
engineering unless you know what to look for.


They will figure out what to look for! Or they will hire Chinese  
people who know.


Yes, they will try. The issue is scale.



The physics profession has already demonstrated its basic inability  
to explain the effect.  A physics education is actually a handicap.


First, not all physicists are uniform. I am sure there are many  
skilled senior physicists who could contribute to this research.


Yes bright people would contribute if they have the incentive. This  
incentive is not provided in the West.  Even with incentive, they  
would have to learn about the subject before they could make a  
contribution. From whom do they get this teaching?


Second, Chinese physicists are not much different from ours. It is  
NOT POSSIBLE they will gain some magic understanding that Americans  
and others cannot possibly crack. That is not how the human mind  
works. There are no cultural or biological differences that would  
allow that.


A person does what they ar

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Edmund Storms  wrote:


> Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic understanding is
> normally in place on which understanding of the new idea can be
> constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has a basic
> understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.  In addition,
> the number of people who have even a rudimentary understanding is very
> limited and growing older by the minuet.
>

No one in China understands it better than anyone in the U.S. The person
who understands it best is Rossi, and he is here.



> No effective way exists in the West to teach this limited knowledge to the
> next generation - to the scientists and engineers who would be needed to
> manufacture the devices.
>

That is nonsense. Americans are no better or worse at teaching or learning
than anyone else. I attended elite universities in the U.S. and Japan. I
assure you, Asian kids are no smarter than Americans, Europeans, Russians
or Africans, and no culture has any special ability to educate people.


  A race is on is to acquire this knowledge and Rossi has a head start. If
> this knowledge is being acquired and developed in China, the rest of the
> world would have no access.
>

Anything Rossi can discover, others can rediscover. Even if a direct
reverse engineering does not work, no secret of this nature can remain
hidden for long.



>   Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the world
> getting the knowledge after China put generators on the market.
>

R&D into cold fusion will far larger than the Manhattan project. R&D into
transistors was far larger. IBM's development of the IBM 360 computer cost
more than the Manhattan project in constant dollars.



>  If you suggest the device could be reverse engineered, you would be
> wrong. If you propose using a lot of bright physicists to figure out the
> process, you would also be wrong.
>

If bright physicists in China can figure it out, I am certain bright
physicists in other countries can too. No major technology can remain
secret for long. After Japan opened up in 1868 and began studying European
and American technology, they caught up with every major military
technology in 20 years. They were 100 years behind. In 1905 they defeated
the Russian army and blew the navy out of the water.



> The active region is too unique and too small to allow reverse engineering
> unless you know what to look for.
>

They will figure out what to look for! Or they will hire Chinese people who
know.



>  The physics profession has already demonstrated its basic inability to
> explain the effect.  A physics education is actually a handicap.
>

First, not all physicists are uniform. I am sure there are many skilled
senior physicists who could contribute to this research.

Second, Chinese physicists are not much different from ours. It is NOT
POSSIBLE they will gain some magic understanding that Americans and others
cannot possibly crack. That is not how the human mind works. There are no
cultural or biological differences that would allow that.

Third, there is a new crop of physicists every years. After it becomes
generally known that cold fusion is real, for the next generation the best
and brightest of them will go into cold fusion, just as they went into
nuclear physics and semiconductors in the past.


 Consequently, once the West wakes up and discovers it needs to compete
> with China, most of the present information will have been lost from the
> West and rediscovering the knowledge will take too long.
>

The West will wake up to this fact about a week after people in China do.
This is the 21st century. There are no secrets. If Rossi installs a dozen
heaters in factories in the U.S. -- as he plans to do -- everyone in the
world will soon know about it, and they will understand the significance.


 By the time the required knowledge is obtained, China will be far ahead.
>  But, that is only my opinion based on 23 years of study.
>

You sound like Wilbur Wright in 1908, when he assured his investors that no
one would catch up to him in less than 5 years, because that's how long it
took him to develop the airplane. Rivals caught up and surpassed the
Wrights in six months.

It is much easier to recapitulate research than it is to do it the first
time. Especially when you work on a shoestring the first time, and the
second time you have 500,000 of the best experts on earth working
frantically with unlimited funding. That was the situation with airplanes
in 1911 and it will be the situation with cold fusion soon after people
realize it is a real, commercial source of energy, far cheaper than any
other.



> The fact that this very serious and plausible situation exists and nothing
> is being done, gives little hope that the response later will be any more
> competent . . .
>

Nothing is being done because no one believes it is real! That is partly
the fault of cold fusion researchers, who have hidden their light under a
bushel. No o

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Lennart Thornros]

Doom and gloom.
Self fulfilling prophecy.
I think you are right to be cautious. I agree with that there are reasons
to say that China and other not so well off countries will be able to swing
forward because they might see the opportunity and are 'hungry'.. In itself
that is positive. I think you will agree, there is enough energy to share.
To believe that China or any third world country would have an advantage is
"painting the devil on the wall" (and become scared). Reality is that the
west has an advantage (as usual). I agree with that this is a situation
when the west might lose some of its advantages. No, I did not say become
less prosperous as I think a progression in the not so well off countries
is a long term advantage.
I usually agree with Ed Storms but I cannot support your logic here. You
are obviously concerned about global warming and how we do not do enough.
LENR would be a fantastic step forward maybe enough to revert what bad we
have done for some time to increase the temperature on the planet. The
global warming ideas has been sold poorly and there is no basic support
from anyone not involved in science. LENR could be a popular way to achieve
the goal. See the possibilities and react accordingly.
I think Jed's comments are reality. This is not the days of Copernicus. The
internet is here.
Now is the question what to do? Hang up your hat as we are too old (70)?
I think that it is not an opportunity to find the solution and become rich.
As little as the Wright brothers benefited big times from aviation as
little will Rossi benefit from LENR. Refining the process will make the
initial patent rather obsolete and refining will start when we have full
understanding.
Instead we need to focus on spreading the knowledge. I appreciate that we
need a lot of science support and that it would be good to have support
financially from government or big corporations.You are stating on this
blog? that i t is impossible for many reasons. Do you think having support
from the communistic Chinese government is doable? No. I think Rossi is
doing something right when he use Swedish Vattenfall (yes, I am a
Naturalized Swede). Because they have the right position to benefit from
the technology. I am sure we can identify many other possible partners. As
usual in all development, small and big, the management and the marketing
is what is needed. Instead of doom and gloom we need to educate and
advertise to all parties, which will benefit from the technology step. That
work is just as important as the scientific side of the development. Using
the internet and our very good ability to design teams for building a lose
but strong organization is my idea for not hanging up the hat but to do
something. I am sure there are others with more specific ideas and I wish
they brought them forward.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

>  Well put Ed Storms. Jed as always is a cornucopian. LENR has a huge
> political foot print in the U.S; Five million very high paying jobs are at
> stake in the energy production segments and fuel transportation and
> distribution economy.
>
>
>
> In the immediate first pass, all those jobs whose average salary is about
> double the national average would easily shipped off shore to Chinese LENR
> factory production facilities.
>
>
>
> The American population could not stand such an economic and political
> shock. Letting the American car industry to go under is only a mere shadow
> of what will happen when Chinese LENR is in full swing.
>
>
>
> America will enter a deep depression with little prospects of competing in
> world markets. Plutocracy controlled Capital flow worldwide will be
> redirected to LENR production in China where most of the future LENR R&D
> will take place.
>
>
>
> America will pay a heavy price for the contempt that they have shown to
> LENR and those who worked on it over these many years.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Edmund Storms wrote:
>
>> I always welcome your optimism about the future, Jed, and you can be
>> counted on to give the counter argument. However, I think you are missing
>> several unique features of LENR that will cause the future to be different
>>  from how normal events take place.
>>
>> Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic understanding
>> is normally in place on which understanding of the new idea can be
>> constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has a basic
>> understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.  In addition,
>> the number of people who have even a rudimentary understanding is very
>> limited and growing older by the minuet.
>>
>> No effective way exists in the West to t

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

Well put Ed Storms. Jed as always is a cornucopian. LENR has a huge
political foot print in the U.S; Five million very high paying jobs are at
stake in the energy production segments and fuel transportation and
distribution economy.



In the immediate first pass, all those jobs whose average salary is about
double the national average would easily shipped off shore to Chinese LENR
factory production facilities.



The American population could not stand such an economic and political
shock. Letting the American car industry to go under is only a mere shadow
of what will happen when Chinese LENR is in full swing.



America will enter a deep depression with little prospects of competing in
world markets. Plutocracy controlled Capital flow worldwide will be
redirected to LENR production in China where most of the future LENR R&D
will take place.



America will pay a heavy price for the contempt that they have shown to
LENR and those who worked on it over these many years.








On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Edmund Storms  wrote:

> I always welcome your optimism about the future, Jed, and you can be
> counted on to give the counter argument. However, I think you are missing
> several unique features of LENR that will cause the future to be different
>  from how normal events take place.
>
> Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic understanding is
> normally in place on which understanding of the new idea can be
> constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has a basic
> understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.  In addition,
> the number of people who have even a rudimentary understanding is very
> limited and growing older by the minuet.
>
> No effective way exists in the West to teach this limited knowledge to the
> next generation - to the scientists and engineers who would be needed to
> manufacture the devices.  A race is on is to acquire this knowledge and
> Rossi has a head start. If this knowledge is being acquired and developed
> in China, the rest of the world would have no access.  Of course a
> Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of the world getting the
> knowledge after China put generators on the market.
>
>  If you suggest the device could be reverse engineered, you would be
> wrong. If you propose using a lot of bright physicists to figure out the
> process, you would also be wrong. The active region is too unique and too
> small to allow reverse engineering unless you know what to look for. The
> physics profession has already demonstrated its basic inability to explain
> the effect.  A physics education is actually a handicap.  Consequently,
> once the West wakes up and discovers it needs to compete with China, most
> of the present information will have been lost from the West and
> rediscovering the knowledge will take too long. By the time the required
> knowledge is obtained, China will be far ahead.  But, that is only my
> opinion based on 23 years of study.
>
> The fact that this very serious and plausible situation exists and nothing
> is being done, gives little hope that the response later will be any more
> competent, no matter how much self-interest is focused on the problem. This
> is the global-warming problem all over again. Once again, by the time the
> danger is obvious, the response will be too little and too late.
>
> Ed Storms
>
> On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>>  As the U.S. will soon become the world leader in fossil fuel
>> development and worldwide sales well into this century, it is not in the
>> interest of Russia, the U.S. or its other energy producing allies to
>> sponsor a competitive or more rightly a superior energy source. If the past
>> is prolog, the U.S. will attempt to restrict LENR to secret military
>> operations like Drone power, small naval vessel power plants, and remote
>> base power sources.
>>
> This scenario is unrealistic. The U.S. government does not have the power
> to restrict a technology in this fashion. Once it becomes generally known
> that cold fusion is real, no government, corporation or other institution
> will have the power to stop it from being developed and deployed. The lure
> of money will be far too strong. Consumers will demand it.
>
> Corporate CEOs, Senators and other powerful people often imagine that they
> are in control of events, but that is not the case. A corporate CEO is a
> slave to his customers. Whatever they demand he must supply.
>
>  By proclaiming that the LENR technology is top secret and a dangerous
>> nuclear application with weapons of mass destruction potential . . .
>>
> This cannot be done. Knowledge of the technology is already too
> widespread. These devices are not that complicated to make. After people
> realize it is real, every industrial corporation will begin frantic efforts
> to replicate it. They will soon surpass Rossi, just as in 1909 competitors
> soon surpassed the Wright brothers. Even

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Edmund Storms]

I always welcome your optimism about the future, Jed, and you can be  
counted on to give the counter argument. However, I think you are  
missing several unique features of LENR that will cause the future to  
be different  from how normal events take place.


Unlike most technologies, even the new ones, a huge basic  
understanding is normally in place on which understanding of the new  
idea can be constructed.  This is not the case with LENR. No one has a  
basic understanding how it works. Success has resulted from luck.  In  
addition, the number of people who have even a rudimentary  
understanding is very limited and growing older by the minuet.


No effective way exists in the West to teach this limited knowledge to  
the next generation - to the scientists and engineers who would be  
needed to manufacture the devices.  A race is on is to acquire this  
knowledge and Rossi has a head start. If this knowledge is being  
acquired and developed in China, the rest of the world would have no  
access.  Of course a Manhattan-type program might speed up the rest of  
the world getting the knowledge after China put generators on the  
market.


 If you suggest the device could be reverse engineered, you would be  
wrong. If you propose using a lot of bright physicists to figure out  
the process, you would also be wrong. The active region is too unique  
and too small to allow reverse engineering unless you know what to  
look for. The physics profession has already demonstrated its basic  
inability to explain the effect.  A physics education is actually a  
handicap.  Consequently, once the West wakes up and discovers it needs  
to compete with China, most of the present information will have been  
lost from the West and rediscovering the knowledge will take too long.  
By the time the required knowledge is obtained, China will be far  
ahead.  But, that is only my opinion based on 23 years of study.


The fact that this very serious and plausible situation exists and  
nothing is being done, gives little hope that the response later will  
be any more competent, no matter how much self-interest is focused on  
the problem. This is the global-warming problem all over again. Once  
again, by the time the danger is obvious, the response will be too  
little and too late.


Ed Storms
On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Axil Axil  wrote:
As the U.S. will soon become the world leader in fossil fuel  
development and worldwide sales well into this century, it is not in  
the interest of Russia, the U.S. or its other energy producing  
allies to sponsor a competitive or more rightly a superior energy  
source. If the past is prolog, the U.S. will attempt to restrict  
LENR to secret military operations like Drone power, small naval  
vessel power plants, and remote base power sources.


This scenario is unrealistic. The U.S. government does not have the  
power to restrict a technology in this fashion. Once it becomes  
generally known that cold fusion is real, no government, corporation  
or other institution will have the power to stop it from being  
developed and deployed. The lure of money will be far too strong.  
Consumers will demand it.


Corporate CEOs, Senators and other powerful people often imagine  
that they are in control of events, but that is not the case. A  
corporate CEO is a slave to his customers. Whatever they demand he  
must supply.


 By proclaiming that the LENR technology is top secret and a  
dangerous nuclear application with weapons of mass destruction  
potential . . .


This cannot be done. Knowledge of the technology is already too  
widespread. These devices are not that complicated to make. After  
people realize it is real, every industrial corporation will begin  
frantic efforts to replicate it. They will soon surpass Rossi, just  
as in 1909 competitors soon surpassed the Wright brothers. Even if  
the U.S. government claims LENR is top secret or dangerous, other  
governments will ignore it.


The most important military uses of cold fusion will be in ordinary  
civilian technology such as automobiles, telephones and flashlights.  
Not in exotic weapons. The most important technologies of the WWII  
were trucks and DC-3 airplanes. See the quote from Eisenhower in my  
book. If the U.S. does not allow widespread use of cold fusion in  
civilian technology, our military will soon be weakened. Military  
leaders understand this, and will not let it happen.


People here who extol the Chinese government and economic system  
have exaggerated ideas about its effectiveness. It is far from  
perfect. The U.S., the EU and Japan are still in the aggregate far  
ahead of China, well integrated with one another, and more capable  
of developing cold fusion rapidly. It is far from a foregone  
conclusion that China will lead in this technology, although it  
surely will play an important role.


This reminds me of the notion that the Chinese have somehow put a  
h

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

>  As the U.S. will soon become the world leader in fossil fuel development
> and worldwide sales well into this century, it is not in the interest of
> Russia, the U.S. or its other energy producing allies to sponsor a
> competitive or more rightly a superior energy source. If the past is
> prolog, the U.S. will attempt to restrict LENR to secret military
> operations like Drone power, small naval vessel power plants, and remote
> base power sources.
>
This scenario is unrealistic. The U.S. government does not have the power
to restrict a technology in this fashion. Once it becomes generally known
that cold fusion is real, no government, corporation or other institution
will have the power to stop it from being developed and deployed. The lure
of money will be far too strong. Consumers will demand it.

Corporate CEOs, Senators and other powerful people often imagine that they
are in control of events, but that is not the case. A corporate CEO is a
slave to his customers. Whatever they demand he must supply.

 By proclaiming that the LENR technology is top secret and a dangerous
> nuclear application with weapons of mass destruction potential . . .
>
This cannot be done. Knowledge of the technology is already too widespread.
These devices are not that complicated to make. After people realize it is
real, every industrial corporation will begin frantic efforts to replicate
it. They will soon surpass Rossi, just as in 1909 competitors soon
surpassed the Wright brothers. Even if the U.S. government claims LENR is
top secret or dangerous, other governments will ignore it.

The most important military uses of cold fusion will be in ordinary
civilian technology such as automobiles, telephones and flashlights. Not in
exotic weapons. The most important technologies of the WWII were trucks and
DC-3 airplanes. See the quote from Eisenhower in my book. If the U.S. does
not allow widespread use of cold fusion in civilian technology, our
military will soon be weakened. Military leaders understand this, and will
not let it happen.

People here who extol the Chinese government and economic system have
exaggerated ideas about its effectiveness. It is far from perfect. The
U.S., the EU and Japan are still in the aggregate far ahead of China, well
integrated with one another, and more capable of developing cold fusion
rapidly. It is far from a foregone conclusion that China will lead in this
technology, although it surely will play an important role.

This reminds me of the notion that the Chinese have somehow put a
hammerlock on the market for rare earths. That's ridiculous. The U.S.,
Canada and other countries have huge supplies of rare earths. We stopped
mining these metals because the Chinese produce them at a much lower cost.
They do that because they ignore their own environmental laws and they pay
their workers very little. The U.S. and Japanese manufacturers could easily
pay a few extra pennies per magnet or per cell phone and make up the
difference. If the Chinese ever again threaten to embargo these materials
to jack up the price, I am sure the U.S. will do that, and Japan will
revive North American production. I expert they are doing that now. See:

http://oilprice.com/uploads/AC1025.png

I remember in the 1980s when people claimed that Japan was the economic
powerhouse of the future. I found this notion ludicrous, as did most
Japanese people I knew. Of course it was and remains a major industrial
power, but there was never anything magic about the government, MITI, their
corporations or their educational system that would put them far ahead of
other countries.

The only time in history when one set of nations progressed far ahead of
others was the industrial revolution from 1700 to 1900, when Europe and the
U.S. became far wealthier and technically ahead of Asia and the third
world. That was because of unique conditions that will never reoccur. The
biggest reason was lack of communications. People in Japan and China did
not know what was happening in Europe or the Americas. Now they do know,
and there is no chance they will miss out on any major technological
advance. And no chance we will miss out on a breakthrough in those
countries. If consumers in Europe or China begin buying cold fusion powered
cars, consumers in the U.S. will hear about it.

(remember when they want to mobilize popular opinion: "We don't want the
> smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."), they can maintain their worldwide
> advantage in fossil fuel sales of coal, oil and especially liquefied
> natural gas.
>
Not a chance. No one can sell a technology when a rival technology is half
the price, or ten times cheaper, or a thousand times cheaper -- as cold
fusion will inevitably become. You might as well suggest that by mobilizing
popular opinion the government might have prevented the use of electric
lighting, automobiles, or computers. Or that it might persuade people to go
back to using horses instead of automobiles. No pow

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

As the U.S. will soon become the world leader in fossil fuel development
and worldwide sales well into this century, it is not in the interest of
Russia, the U.S. or its other energy producing allies to sponsor a
competitive or more rightly a superior energy source. If the past is
prolog, the U.S. will attempt to restrict LENR to secret military
operations like Drone power, small naval vessel power plants, and remote
base power sources.  By proclaiming that the LENR technology is top secret
and a dangerous nuclear application with weapons of mass destruction
potential (remember when they want to mobilize popular opinion: "We don't
want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."), they can maintain their
worldwide advantage in fossil fuel sales of coal, oil and especially
liquefied natural gas. The NRC will proclaim that LENR is highly dangerous
as a responsive tool of the administration and Congress.



The current nuclear power plant vendors will not change their technology
and leave LENR to die on the vine. International commercial competition
among nations is one leverage point that will change the attitude of the
current and future U.S. decision makers visa vie this LENR blocking policy.




On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:

> I agree.
> It remind me the collapse of Rome, or what Assimov wrote in Foundation
> trilogy...
>
> Even if a western genious could save our dominance, we would forbide him
> to do it...
>
> Ooops... it is what is happening... with many examples...
>
>
>
> 2014/1/5 Edmund Storms 
>
>> Axil, I agree completely with your very clear description of how China
>> will lead the way. The West has given China the technology, the money, and
>> the incentive to become the next world leader.  The US, on the other hand,
>> is doing everything it can to reduce its influence and future standard of
>> living.  The attitude toward LENR is just one of many examples of how many
>> countries in the West are in intellectual decay.  Unfortunately, although
>> we can see the future, no one seems to have the power or courage to do
>> anything to prevent what will be a disaster for the West. On the other
>> hand, a great many people in China and in that part of the world will
>> benefit greatly.  As you say, a person in the wrong place at the wrong time
>> might want a bunker as a good plan B.
>>
>> Ed Storms
>>
>> On Jan 5, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Axil Axil wrote:
>>
>>  If the past is prolog, China will be the major mover and the first
>> adopter of the green LENR technology. Controls and regulation on the LENR
>> reactor design, production and sales will not exist and the production of
>> reactors will be spread far and wide throughout the Chinese industrial
>> base. China will attempt to corner the LERN reactor market though a
>> well-designed and heavily financed government inspired dumping strategy but
>> the west will block the adoption of Chinese reactors in their industrial
>> base through high tariffs and regulations restrictions under heavy
>> political pressure from the fossil fuel energy sector lobby.
>>
>>
>>  As a reaction to the western LENR blocking strategy, China will convert
>> the cheap energy costs for LENR power into low cost products far below what
>> those products would cost when produced using fossil fuels.
>>
>>
>>  Eventually, the west will be forced to adopt LENR reactors as a counter
>> strategy to China’s dumping of reactors and low cost products into the
>> global market place.
>>
>>
>>  The speed of deployment of LENR reactors in China will be amazing
>> having been encouraged and financed by the huge capital reserves of the
>> Chinese government.
>>
>>
>>  The Chinese environment will clear rapidly and the LERNerization of the
>> Chinese economy will be abrupt and unstoppable. The standard of living of
>> the Chinese population will rise rapidly causing catastrophic political
>> upheaval and rapid political evolution of the Chinese system.
>>
>>
>>  Eventually, to remain completive in the worldwide marketplace, western
>> governments will slowly adopt LENR as a counter strategy to the Chinese
>> LENR industrial offensive. Here too, the west will suffer a profound
>> decline of the standard of living among their populations which will force
>> major political and economic upheaval and dislocations.
>>
>>
>>  In just a more few days, we will be entering into interesting times.
>> The time is growing short; take the time now to make sure your bunker is
>> well provisioned.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> My friend AXIL, an admirable  front-line physicist thinker, has written
>>> comments to my 2014 New Year  message. Please read them. I liked the
>>> comments so much that I have asked him to write a guest editorial
>>> for my Blog. Here it is:
>>>
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/01/axil-about-lenr-days-to-come-in-this.html
>>> The future of LENR is critically (I almost said-tragically) de

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Alain Sepeda]

I agree.
It remind me the collapse of Rome, or what Assimov wrote in Foundation
trilogy...

Even if a western genious could save our dominance, we would forbide him to
do it...

Ooops... it is what is happening... with many examples...



2014/1/5 Edmund Storms 

> Axil, I agree completely with your very clear description of how China
> will lead the way. The West has given China the technology, the money, and
> the incentive to become the next world leader.  The US, on the other hand,
> is doing everything it can to reduce its influence and future standard of
> living.  The attitude toward LENR is just one of many examples of how many
> countries in the West are in intellectual decay.  Unfortunately, although
> we can see the future, no one seems to have the power or courage to do
> anything to prevent what will be a disaster for the West. On the other
> hand, a great many people in China and in that part of the world will
> benefit greatly.  As you say, a person in the wrong place at the wrong time
> might want a bunker as a good plan B.
>
> Ed Storms
>
> On Jan 5, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Axil Axil wrote:
>
>  If the past is prolog, China will be the major mover and the first
> adopter of the green LENR technology. Controls and regulation on the LENR
> reactor design, production and sales will not exist and the production of
> reactors will be spread far and wide throughout the Chinese industrial
> base. China will attempt to corner the LERN reactor market though a
> well-designed and heavily financed government inspired dumping strategy but
> the west will block the adoption of Chinese reactors in their industrial
> base through high tariffs and regulations restrictions under heavy
> political pressure from the fossil fuel energy sector lobby.
>
>
>  As a reaction to the western LENR blocking strategy, China will convert
> the cheap energy costs for LENR power into low cost products far below what
> those products would cost when produced using fossil fuels.
>
>
>  Eventually, the west will be forced to adopt LENR reactors as a counter
> strategy to China’s dumping of reactors and low cost products into the
> global market place.
>
>
>  The speed of deployment of LENR reactors in China will be amazing having
> been encouraged and financed by the huge capital reserves of the Chinese
> government.
>
>
>  The Chinese environment will clear rapidly and the LERNerization of the
> Chinese economy will be abrupt and unstoppable. The standard of living of
> the Chinese population will rise rapidly causing catastrophic political
> upheaval and rapid political evolution of the Chinese system.
>
>
>  Eventually, to remain completive in the worldwide marketplace, western
> governments will slowly adopt LENR as a counter strategy to the Chinese
> LENR industrial offensive. Here too, the west will suffer a profound
> decline of the standard of living among their populations which will force
> major political and economic upheaval and dislocations.
>
>
>  In just a more few days, we will be entering into interesting times. The
> time is growing short; take the time now to make sure your bunker is well
> provisioned.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> My friend AXIL, an admirable  front-line physicist thinker, has written
>> comments to my 2014 New Year  message. Please read them. I liked the
>> comments so much that I have asked him to write a guest editorial
>> for my Blog. Here it is:
>>
>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/01/axil-about-lenr-days-to-come-in-this.html
>> The future of LENR is critically (I almost said-tragically) dependent on
>> bold new ideas, even more than on a reversal of attitude of the press and
>> on Big Money.
>> AXIL knows/creates many of those savior ideas.
>>  Peter
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>> Cluj, Romania
>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Edmund Storms]

Axil, I agree completely with your very clear description of how China  
will lead the way. The West has given China the technology, the money,  
and the incentive to become the next world leader.  The US, on the  
other hand, is doing everything it can to reduce its influence and  
future standard of living.  The attitude toward LENR is just one of  
many examples of how many countries in the West are in intellectual  
decay.  Unfortunately, although we can see the future, no one seems to  
have the power or courage to do anything to prevent what will be a  
disaster for the West. On the other hand, a great many people in China  
and in that part of the world will benefit greatly.  As you say, a  
person in the wrong place at the wrong time might want a bunker as a  
good plan B.


Ed Storms
On Jan 5, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Axil Axil wrote:

If the past is prolog, China will be the major mover and the first  
adopter of the green LENR technology. Controls and regulation on the  
LENR reactor design, production and sales will not exist and the  
production of reactors will be spread far and wide throughout the  
Chinese industrial base. China will attempt to corner the LERN  
reactor market though a well-designed and heavily financed  
government inspired dumping strategy but the west will block the  
adoption of Chinese reactors in their industrial base through high  
tariffs and regulations restrictions under heavy political pressure  
from the fossil fuel energy sector lobby.


As a reaction to the western LENR blocking strategy, China will  
convert the cheap energy costs for LENR power into low cost products  
far below what those products would cost when produced using fossil  
fuels.


Eventually, the west will be forced to adopt LENR reactors as a  
counter strategy to China’s dumping of reactors and low cost  
products into the global market place.


The speed of deployment of LENR reactors in China will be amazing  
having been encouraged and financed by the huge capital reserves of  
the Chinese government.


The Chinese environment will clear rapidly and the LERNerization of  
the Chinese economy will be abrupt and unstoppable. The standard of  
living of the Chinese population will rise rapidly causing  
catastrophic political upheaval and rapid political evolution of the  
Chinese system.


Eventually, to remain completive in the worldwide marketplace,  
western governments will slowly adopt LENR as a counter strategy to  
the Chinese LENR industrial offensive. Here too, the west will  
suffer a profound decline of the standard of living among their  
populations which will force major political and economic upheaval  
and dislocations.


In just a more few days, we will be entering into interesting times.  
The time is growing short; take the time now to make sure your  
bunker is well provisioned.





On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Peter Gluck   
wrote:

Dear Friends,

My friend AXIL, an admirable  front-line physicist thinker, has  
written comments to my 2014 New Year  message. Please read them. I  
liked the comments so much that I have asked him to write a guest  
editorial

for my Blog. Here it is:
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/01/axil-about-lenr-days-to-come-in-this.html
The future of LENR is critically (I almost said-tragically)  
dependent on bold new ideas, even more than on a reversal of  
attitude of the press and on Big Money.

AXIL knows/creates many of those savior ideas.
Peter

--
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Axil Axil]

If the past is prolog, China will be the major mover and the first adopter
of the green LENR technology. Controls and regulation on the LENR reactor
design, production and sales will not exist and the production of reactors
will be spread far and wide throughout the Chinese industrial base. China
will attempt to corner the LERN reactor market though a well-designed and
heavily financed government inspired dumping strategy but the west will
block the adoption of Chinese reactors in their industrial base through
high tariffs and regulations restrictions under heavy political pressure
from the fossil fuel energy sector lobby.



As a reaction to the western LENR blocking strategy, China will convert the
cheap energy costs for LENR power into low cost products far below what
those products would cost when produced using fossil fuels.



Eventually, the west will be forced to adopt LENR reactors as a counter
strategy to China’s dumping of reactors and low cost products into the
global market place.



The speed of deployment of LENR reactors in China will be amazing having
been encouraged and financed by the huge capital reserves of the Chinese
government.



The Chinese environment will clear rapidly and the LERNerization of the
Chinese economy will be abrupt and unstoppable. The standard of living of
the Chinese population will rise rapidly causing catastrophic political
upheaval and rapid political evolution of the Chinese system.



Eventually, to remain completive in the worldwide marketplace, western
governments will slowly adopt LENR as a counter strategy to the Chinese
LENR industrial offensive. Here too, the west will suffer a profound
decline of the standard of living among their populations which will force
major political and economic upheaval and dislocations.



In just a more few days, we will be entering into interesting times. The
time is growing short; take the time now to make sure your bunker is well
provisioned.





On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> My friend AXIL, an admirable  front-line physicist thinker, has written
> comments to my 2014 New Year  message. Please read them. I liked the
> comments so much that I have asked him to write a guest editorial
> for my Blog. Here it is:
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/01/axil-about-lenr-days-to-come-in-this.html
> The future of LENR is critically (I almost said-tragically) dependent on
> bold new ideas, even more than on a reversal of attitude of the press and
> on Big Money.
> AXIL knows/creates many of those savior ideas.
> Peter
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

[Vo]:AXIL's Efitorial

[Peter Gluck]

Dear Friends,

My friend AXIL, an admirable  front-line physicist thinker, has written
comments to my 2014 New Year  message. Please read them. I liked the
comments so much that I have asked him to write a guest editorial
for my Blog. Here it is:
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/01/axil-about-lenr-days-to-come-in-this.html
The future of LENR is critically (I almost said-tragically) dependent on
bold new ideas, even more than on a reversal of attitude of the press and
on Big Money.
AXIL knows/creates many of those savior ideas.
Peter

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com