Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
More rossi-sez : Brian March 29th, 2013 at 9:02 AM Dear Mr. Rossi I hope that you are well. I was curious about the timeline for the publication of the third party report. It is my understanding that publication in a peer reviewed journal is a very long process, often taking a year between submission to the journal and actual publication. How is it that they will be able to publish so quickly? Will they be releasing the report directly? Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I understand that you are very busy. Andrea Rossi March 29th, 2013 at 1:01 PM Dear Brian: I do not know when the publication will be made, but I suppose around the half of April: the peer reviewing is in course since December, when the third indipendent tests had begun, remember? Then a second phase has been made, but the reviewing was already in course and substantially the work has been the same. The last cycle of 120 hours has been a replica to make sure the results were real. Warm Regards, A.R. And on the cat-and mouse : Paul March 28th, 2013 at 9:35 AM Andrea, Regarding the exploits of mice and cats: I believe the warm feeling the cat has is because it has already swallowed the mouse. There is usually a bias between mice and cats. Can you use this bias to stimulate the mouse to its full potential? Paul Andrea Rossi March 28th, 2013 at 10:32 AM Dear Paul: Yes, giving to the Mouse a snake to eat. Warm Regards, A.R. Paul March 28th, 2013 at 10:04 PM Andrea, I assume you feed your mice very thin snakes with many coils in order to get the most heat from a high voltage low current source. Paul Andrea Rossi March 29th, 2013 at 8:24 AM Dear Paul: Of course! And after the digestion of the Mouse, snakes return to their original status. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
I wish he would cease the nonsense about snakes, clowns and other irrelevant subjects. He needs to concentrate upon the problems at hand and forget about the groups that ridicule him. If he has a real product and the third party tests demonstrate the same then he will come out in good shape and we can all celebrate. I hope the wait is not too long this time. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 4:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded More rossi-sez : Brian March 29th, 2013 at 9:02 AM Dear Mr. Rossi I hope that you are well. I was curious about the timeline for the publication of the third partyreport. It is my understanding that publication in a peer reviewedjournal is a very long process, often taking a year between submission tothe journal and actual publication. How is it that they will be able topublish so quickly? Will they be releasing the report directly? Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I understand thatyou are very busy. Andrea Rossi March 29th, 2013 at 1:01 PM Dear Brian: I do not know when the publication will be made, but I suppose around thehalf of April: the peer reviewing is in course since December, when thethird indipendent tests had begun, remember? Then a second phase has beenmade, but the reviewing was already in course and substantially the workhas been the same. The last cycle of 120 hours has been a �replica� tomake sure the results were real. Warm Regards, A.R. And on the cat-and mouse : Paul March 28th, 2013 at 9:35 AM Andrea, Regarding the exploits of mice and cats: I believe the warm feeling the cat has is because it has alreadyswallowed the mouse. There is usually a �bias� between mice and cats. Can you use this �bias�to stimulate the mouse to its full �potential�? Paul Andrea Rossi March 28th, 2013 at 10:32 AM Dear Paul: Yes, giving to the Mouse a snake to eat. Warm Regards, A.R. Paul March 28th, 2013 at 10:04 PM Andrea, I assume you feed your mice very thin snakes with many coils in order toget the most heat from a high voltage low current source. Paul Andrea Rossi March 29th, 2013 at 8:24 AM Dear Paul: Of course! And after the digestion of the Mouse, snakes return to theiroriginal status. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
At 01:46 PM 3/29/2013, David Roberson wrote: I wish he would cease the nonsense about snakes, clowns and other irrelevant subjects. Since he got hooked on the publicity he would love to spill the beans, but can't because of patents, nda's and the like. So he spills it -- in response to questions -- in tantalizing little bits .. like playing 20 questions. Guess : Either the snake is activated/deactivated (eg the coil), or it changes state to a catalyst (H-generator?) and back
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Rossi wrote: 1. Andrea Rossi March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791cpage=4#comment-664056 Dear Robert Tanhaus: 1- no, we revolutioned the technology separating the activation from the E-Cat, making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: * mouse ( activator) and Cat. *This has enhanced the efficiency of the E-Cat. *Has been an idea I got during a night of fever and asma attack… I couldn’t sleep, it worked. 2- He is helping manufacturing the plants Warm Regards, A.R. * House here means chamber, or reaction vessel. Here is the question from Tanhaus: Dear Andrea Rossi, Wonderful!! I have two questions. 1. Was the Hot Cat in Pordenone of the same model as the Hot Cats in the 3rd party test now? 2. Did your “new” partner helped you a lot designing these two stage reactors? Thank you, Robert Tanhaus - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
What could mean a 2 stages eCat ? Is Rossi able to make different flavors of its magical powder ? One powder with low temp start but with slow kinetic (Low kW), called by Rossi the mouse One powder with high temp start but with fast kinetic (High kW), called by Rossi the cat This will allow better COP without loosing too much of control. Quoting Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Rossi wrote: 1. Andrea Rossi March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791cpage=4#comment-664056 Dear Robert Tanhaus: 1- no, we revolutioned the technology separating the activation from the E-Cat, making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: * mouse ( activator) and Cat. *This has enhanced the efficiency of the E-Cat. *Has been an idea I got during a night of fever and asma attack… I couldn’t sleep, it worked. 2- He is helping manufacturing the plants Warm Regards, A.R. * House here means chamber, or reaction vessel. Here is the question from Tanhaus: Dear Andrea Rossi, Wonderful!! I have two questions. 1. Was the Hot Cat in Pordenone of the same model as the Hot Cats in the 3rd party test now? 2. Did your “new” partner helped you a lot designing these two stage reactors? Thank you, Robert Tanhaus - Jed
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Arnaud, He might be zeroing in on a method to prevent the self destruction but still get the larger COP..perhaps a thin layer of activated NAE needs to be surrounded by a lesser or non activated region that can still continue to process the plasma ignited by the mouse ... I suspect many of the repeatability issues are due to a self destructive geometry that wears faster with output levels. Fran -Original Message- From: Arnaud Kodeck [mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:41 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded What could mean a 2 stages eCat ? Is Rossi able to make different flavors of its magical powder ? One powder with low temp start but with slow kinetic (Low kW), called by Rossi the mouse One powder with high temp start but with fast kinetic (High kW), called by Rossi the cat This will allow better COP without loosing too much of control. Quoting Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Rossi wrote: 1. Andrea Rossi March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791cpage=4#comment-664056 Dear Robert Tanhaus: 1- no, we revolutioned the technology separating the activation from the E-Cat, making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: * mouse ( activator) and Cat. *This has enhanced the efficiency of the E-Cat. *Has been an idea I got during a night of fever and asma attack… I couldn’t sleep, it worked. 2- He is helping manufacturing the plants Warm Regards, A.R. * House here means chamber, or reaction vessel. Here is the question from Tanhaus: Dear Andrea Rossi, Wonderful!! I have two questions. 1. Was the Hot Cat in Pordenone of the same model as the Hot Cats in the 3rd party test now? 2. Did your “new” partner helped you a lot designing these two stage reactors? Thank you, Robert Tanhaus - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Akira: Do you know who Prometeon is? (The organization that issued this announcement.) Did they do the tests? Will they issue a report? Akira Shirakawa wrote: Prometon s.r.l issued a related press release (in Italian): http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Comunicato_stampa_Prometeon_25_3_2013.pdf - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On 03/26/2013 03:50 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Akira: Do you know who Prometeon is? (The organization that issued this announcement.) Did they do the tests? Will they issue a report? They are the sole authorized E-Cat reseller/licensee for Italy I don't know if they will issue reports. Apparently they have made tests on working E-Cat devices over the past months but they are not related to the upcoming third party scientific validation report. Have a look here: http://www.prometeon.it/ Cheers, S.A
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Rossi uses electrical heating inside its eCats for controlling purpose. He needs to be sure that the energy produced by LENR reaction inside the eCat is below the maximum output possible (The coolant). Otherwise, the control of the reaction will be lost and powder will overheat. If it's happen, the powder looses its magic and the powder becomes LENR inert. Rossi stayed that a lot of times. The way of Rossi has presented the mouse/cat configuration let me think that there are 2 distinguished parts inside the vessel. I'm not convinced that Rossi controls subtlety each NAE. Arnaud -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] Sent: mardi 26 mars 2013 15:47 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded Arnaud, He might be zeroing in on a method to prevent the self destruction but still get the larger COP..perhaps a thin layer of activated NAE needs to be surrounded by a lesser or non activated region that can still continue to process the plasma ignited by the mouse ... I suspect many of the repeatability issues are due to a self destructive geometry that wears faster with output levels. Fran -Original Message- From: Arnaud Kodeck [mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:41 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded What could mean a 2 stages eCat ? Is Rossi able to make different flavors of its magical powder ? One powder with low temp start but with slow kinetic (Low kW), called by Rossi the mouse One powder with high temp start but with fast kinetic (High kW), called by Rossi the cat This will allow better COP without loosing too much of control. Quoting Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Rossi wrote: 1. Andrea Rossi March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791cpage=4#comment- 664056 Dear Robert Tanhaus: 1- no, we revolutioned the technology separating the activation from the E-Cat, making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: * mouse ( activator) and Cat. *This has enhanced the efficiency of the E-Cat. *Has been an idea I got during a night of fever and asma attack. I couldn't sleep, it worked. 2- He is helping manufacturing the plants Warm Regards, A.R. * House here means chamber, or reaction vessel. Here is the question from Tanhaus: Dear Andrea Rossi, Wonderful!! I have two questions. 1. Was the Hot Cat in Pordenone of the same model as the Hot Cats in the 3rd party test now? 2. Did your new partner helped you a lot designing these two stage reactors? Thank you, Robert Tanhaus - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: They are the sole authorized E-Cat reseller/licensee for Italy I don't know if they will issue reports. Apparently they have made tests on working E-Cat devices over the past months but they are not related to the upcoming third party scientific validation report. Ah, thanks for the info. They must have some knowledge of the third-party tests, such as who did them. This is encouraging. This means Rossi is not the only one who has announced the tests. The more people who announce them, the better. It seems unlikely to me that the people at Prometeon would announce something they have not seen and know nothing about. I think it is likely these results are real and they will be published next month. That's my gut feeling. But you never know with Rossi. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
At 10:20 AM 3/26/2013, Jed Rothwell wrote: Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: They are the sole authorized E-Cat reseller/licensee for Italy I don't know if they will issue reports. Apparently they have made tests on working E-Cat devices over the past months but they are not related to the upcoming third party scientific validation report. Ah, thanks for the info. They must have some knowledge of the third-party tests, such as who did them. This is encouraging. This means Rossi is not the only one who has announced the tests. The more people who announce them, the better. It seems unlikely to me that the people at Prometeon would announce something they have not seen and know nothing about. I think it is likely these results are real and they will be published next month. That's my gut feeling. But you never know with Rossi. The prometheon release just sounded like a rehash of ROSSI'S ANNOUNCEMENT. I didn't see anything new.
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Control in Rossi’s reactor is proportional to the COP that it produces. Low COP provides good control, high COP suffers from poor control. Now, the Rossi reactor is a two stage process with the mouse providing the control and the Cat providing the power. The mouse uses heat at a COP near one to give the Cat something it needs to operate at high power, and that thing is not heat. My guess is that the Cat food is electrons. The mouse converts input heat into electrons that feed the Cat. The Cat turns these electrons into more heat. Cheers: Axil On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.bewrote: Rossi uses electrical heating inside its eCats for controlling purpose. He needs to be sure that the energy produced by LENR reaction inside the eCat is below the maximum output possible (The coolant). Otherwise, the control of the reaction will be lost and powder will overheat. If it's happen, the powder looses its magic and the powder becomes LENR inert. Rossi stayed that a lot of times. The way of Rossi has presented the mouse/cat configuration let me think that there are 2 distinguished parts inside the vessel. I'm not convinced that Rossi controls subtlety each NAE. Arnaud -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] Sent: mardi 26 mars 2013 15:47 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded Arnaud, He might be zeroing in on a method to prevent the self destruction but still get the larger COP..perhaps a thin layer of activated NAE needs to be surrounded by a lesser or non activated region that can still continue to process the plasma ignited by the mouse ... I suspect many of the repeatability issues are due to a self destructive geometry that wears faster with output levels. Fran -Original Message- From: Arnaud Kodeck [mailto:arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:41 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded What could mean a 2 stages eCat ? Is Rossi able to make different flavors of its magical powder ? One powder with low temp start but with slow kinetic (Low kW), called by Rossi the mouse One powder with high temp start but with fast kinetic (High kW), called by Rossi the cat This will allow better COP without loosing too much of control. Quoting Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Rossi wrote: 1. Andrea Rossi March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 PMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791cpage=4#comment- 664056 Dear Robert Tanhaus: 1- no, we revolutioned the technology separating the activation from the E-Cat, making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: * mouse ( activator) and Cat. *This has enhanced the efficiency of the E-Cat. *Has been an idea I got during a night of fever and asma attack. I couldn't sleep, it worked. 2- He is helping manufacturing the plants Warm Regards, A.R. * House here means chamber, or reaction vessel. Here is the question from Tanhaus: Dear Andrea Rossi, Wonderful!! I have two questions. 1. Was the Hot Cat in Pordenone of the same model as the Hot Cats in the 3rd party test now? 2. Did your new partner helped you a lot designing these two stage reactors? Thank you, Robert Tanhaus - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: The prometheon release just sounded like a rehash of ROSSI'S ANNOUNCEMENT. I didn't see anything new. I assume that Rossi and Prometheon are working together, and coordinating, so naturally they say the same thing. You would not expect anything new. Or different. If they were saying different things I would be worried. - Jed
[Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791#comments Andrea Rossi March 24th, 2013 at 10:53 PM DEAR GEORGEHANTS: YOUR COMMENT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE OPENS THE GATE FOR THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION: THE TESTS OF THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY HAVE BEEN COMPLETED YESTERDAY. I DID NOT ATTEND, THEREFORE I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY THE RESULTS, THAT WILL SURELY BE PUBLISHED BY THE EXAMINATORS, PROBABLY AROUND THE HALF OF APRIL. I MET THE 11 PROFESSORS AND EXPERTS THAT MADE THE TESTS AND THEY WERE VERY POSITIVE. ONE OF THEM TOLD ME ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. I COULD NOT GET MORE INFORMATION, BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE TO ELABORATE THE DATA TO PREPARE THE PUBLICATION. ALL THE PROFESSORS SAID THE TEST IS GONE WELL, VERY WELL. THE LAST TEST ENDED AFTER 120 HOURS OF UNINTERRUPTED OPERATION OF THE REACTORS ( THE NEW GENERATION OF HOT CATS IS MADE BY A TWO STAGE SYSTEM, MADE WITH AN ACTIVATOR WITH RESISTANCES COUPLED WITH A KIND OF CHARGE, WHICH ACTIVATES THE E-CAT WITH A DIFFERENT CHARGE). THE EFFECT IS STUNNING, WE SAW IN OUR PRIVATE TESTS, AND HAS BEEN REPLICATED BY THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY. NOW WE PASS TO THE INDUSTRIAL ENGAGEMENTS: WE HAVE TO DELIVER OUR PLANTS BY THE END OF APRIL. WARM REGARDS, ANDREA ROSSI Harry
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
He takes risks. No report within 1 month, he will lose even his core fans. The report will be inconclusive and/or written by unknown professors even worse. BTW, have you noticed how silent is the ShutdownRossi site recently? Peter On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791#comments Andrea Rossi March 24th, 2013 at 10:53 PM DEAR GEORGEHANTS: YOUR COMMENT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE OPENS THE GATE FOR THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION: THE TESTS OF THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY HAVE BEEN COMPLETED YESTERDAY. I DID NOT ATTEND, THEREFORE I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY THE RESULTS, THAT WILL SURELY BE PUBLISHED BY THE EXAMINATORS, PROBABLY AROUND THE HALF OF APRIL. I MET THE 11 PROFESSORS AND EXPERTS THAT MADE THE TESTS AND THEY WERE VERY POSITIVE. ONE OF THEM TOLD ME ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. I COULD NOT GET MORE INFORMATION, BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE TO ELABORATE THE DATA TO PREPARE THE PUBLICATION. ALL THE PROFESSORS SAID THE TEST IS GONE WELL, VERY WELL. THE LAST TEST ENDED AFTER 120 HOURS OF UNINTERRUPTED OPERATION OF THE REACTORS ( THE NEW GENERATION OF HOT CATS IS MADE BY A TWO STAGE SYSTEM, MADE WITH AN ACTIVATOR WITH RESISTANCES COUPLED WITH A KIND OF CHARGE, WHICH ACTIVATES THE E-CAT WITH A DIFFERENT CHARGE). THE EFFECT IS STUNNING, WE SAW IN OUR PRIVATE TESTS, AND HAS BEEN REPLICATED BY THE THIRD INDIPENDENT PARTY. NOW WE PASS TO THE INDUSTRIAL ENGAGEMENTS: WE HAVE TO DELIVER OUR PLANTS BY THE END OF APRIL. WARM REGARDS, ANDREA ROSSI Harry -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. does not sound very encouraging in terms of CoP of the HCat. If it took this long to come to that conclusion, the performance must be low.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
I don't see any trouble with that 2013/3/25 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. does not sound very encouraging in terms of CoP of the HCat. If it took this long to come to that conclusion, the performance must be low. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
I hope the output is at least as powerful as the two years of hot air expelled discussing it On Monday, March 25, 2013, Terry Blanton wrote: ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. does not sound very encouraging in terms of CoP of the HCat. If it took this long to come to that conclusion, the performance must be low.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On 03/25/2013 09:35 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. does not sound very encouraging in terms of CoP of the HCat. If it took this long to come to that conclusion, the performance must be low. I don't share that conclusion. First: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that. Second: At some point, you will have to agree there can not reasonably be such a thing as half believing Rossi. He is either (roughly) speaking the truth, or he isn't. If (and I say: if) as it seems we are now close to getting independent validation that he really has a LENR+ device (as Peter Gluck calls LENR at practical levels), it does not make much sense to *not* believe what he said about COP. Andre
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Terry Blanton wrote: ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. does not sound very encouraging in terms of CoP of the HCat. If it took this long to come to that conclusion, the performance must be low. I don't see why. In my experience, it takes professors an inordinately long time to decide anything. By they time they decide where to eat lunch it is time for dinner . Andre Blum andre_vor...@blums.nl wrote: First: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that. I hate that aphorism! I really hate it. Here is what Melich and I wrote about it, in response to the 2004 DoE reviewer #1: Claim 1.5. “As many have said, extraordinary results require extraordinary proof. Such proof is lacking.” This is not a principle of science. It was coined by Carl Sagan for the 1980 “Cosmos” television series. Conventional scientific standards dictate that extraordinary claims are best supported with ordinary evidence from off-the-shelf instruments and standard techniques. All mainstream cold fusion papers present this kind of evidence. Conventional standards also dictate that all claims and arguments must be held to the same standards of rigor. This includes skeptical assertions that attempt to disprove cold fusion, which have been notably lacking in rigor. Laplace asserted that “The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness.” “Weight of evidence” is a measure of how much evidence you have, not how extraordinary it is. There is more evidence for cold fusion than for previously disputed effects. (For example, although there were a few hundred papers published about polywater, most were speculative, and only two labs reported success. [ref Franks]) Finally, the quality of being “extraordinary” is subjective. What seems extraordinary to one person seems ordinary to another. Many scientific phenomena that experts take for granted, such as quantum effects, seemed extraordinary when they were discovered, and still seem extraordinary to non-scientists. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Andre Blum andre_vor...@blums.nl wrote: First: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that. I hate that aphorism! I really hate it. Here is what Melich and I wrote about it, in response to the 2004 DoE reviewer #1: Claim 1.5. “As many have said, extraordinary results require extraordinary proof. Such proof is lacking.” This is not a principle of science. It was coined by Carl Sagan for the 1980 “Cosmos” television series. Conventional scientific standards dictate that extraordinary claims are best supported with ordinary evidence from off-the-shelf instruments and standard techniques. All mainstream cold fusion papers present this kind of evidence. Sagan's statement clearly places him in the pre-Enlightenment mode of natural science: A priest.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
e-catworld has this update. UPDATE: Rossi reports that one of the testers told him: ” ” What we have seen is too important, must absolutely be published”. Also, in reference to the new design of the hot cat, he states: “Basically, we have no more a reactor or a cluster of reactors, but each reactor is coupled with an activator: let’s make this model: the activator is the Mouse, which makes the Cat run. The Mouse has his own COP which is more than 1, the Cat is a surprise.” I speculate the CAT is heated by the activator and so possibly doesn't require further heat input.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Sagan's statement clearly places him in the pre-Enlightenment mode of natural science: A priest. Amen. Also the way he said millions and MIIONS. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Rossi talks about charge. The activator could be a charge amplifier. On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 12:27 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote: e-catworld has this update. UPDATE: Rossi reports that one of the testers told him: ” ” What we have seen is too important, must absolutely be published”. Also, in reference to the new design of the hot cat, he states: “Basically, we have no more a reactor or a cluster of reactors, but each reactor is coupled with an activator: let’s make this model: the activator is the Mouse, which makes the Cat run. The Mouse has his own COP which is more than 1, the Cat is a surprise.” I speculate the CAT is heated by the activator and so possibly doesn't require further heat input.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Sometimes, I think Rossi is like the beggar in this Hanukkah story of Bone Button Borscht. You can listen to the story here. http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=2178798097 It starts at the 5:30 mark. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
I does sound that way doesn't it? Anyone want to make a guess as to what the report will say? I will start with a COP of 4. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 9:36 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded ” WE GOT EVIDENCE THAT THE ‘ EFFECT’ IS REAL BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT”. does not sound very encouraging in terms of CoP of the HCat. If it took this long to come to that conclusion, the performance must be low.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:10 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I does sound that way doesn't it? Anyone want to make a guess as to what the report will say? I will start with a COP of 4. 13.72 (◕‿◕)
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
I make no predictions about the specifics of this report. But I do predict three things: 1. It will be positive, as he claims. What possible benefit would he derive from lying about this? As soon as the report comes out people would see he is lying. 2. It will be published sooner or later. Probably. Who knows when. It is already a month late, but in this business things are often 5 years late. I expect Rossi thought carefully about the timing of this, and he has some reason to let it out now rather than a year ago. Some reason related to intellectual property I guess. 3. It really is a third party evaluation. Rossi often exaggerates about his business and other personal things, but as I have often said, when it comes to technical claims, he tells the truth. Also, he does what he says he will do. He said he would make a 1 MW reactor and by golly he did. He said he had a factory heater. Focardi said on video I've seen that heater and shown it to others and by golly he did. If that 1 MW gadget was fake, it was the most expensive and elaborate fake in the history of fake energy devices. (Most fake devices are small, cheap and thrown together. I've seen many of them.) Despite his flamboyant personality and his irritating habits, Rossi is a force to be reckoned with. I think it is foolish to dismiss him, or make fun of him, or assume he is a fraud. I can see why people fall into this trap. As I have said, I think Rossi *wants* people to think he is a fraud. Many inventors have wanted this. I admit I could be wrong about all of this. But history shows you should not bet against irritating, exploitative, monomaniacal geniuses such as Edison or Jobs, and Rossi sure looks to me like one of them. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: He takes risks. No report within 1 month, he will lose even his core fans. The report will be inconclusive and/or written by unknown professors even worse. BTW, have you noticed how silent is the ShutdownRossi site recently? Peter No, I haven't. I don't follow the site. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Peter Gluck apparently wrote: He takes risks. No report within 1 month, he will lose even his core fans. The report will be inconclusive and/or written by unknown professors even worse. I didn't get that message. I am not sure who the core fans would be. I guess all these people who started web sites about Rossi. He sure does generate enthusiasm. I am a little surprised so many of them are still going on, given the paucity of information. He does not encourage them, as far as I know. It is a strange symbiosis. I am not a core fan even though I predict this report is real and will be published. You never know, because Rossi often changes his mind and his plans. He may cancel at the last minute. I guess there is some chance he is making the whole thing up. He is fun to watch. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
As 22 passi writes, if this is false (or made up) this will be proof of crazyness. There are some limits to everything. My worries are about the quality of the report. Peter On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Peter Gluck apparently wrote: He takes risks. No report within 1 month, he will lose even his core fans. The report will be inconclusive and/or written by unknown professors even worse. I didn't get that message. I am not sure who the core fans would be. I guess all these people who started web sites about Rossi. He sure does generate enthusiasm. I am a little surprised so many of them are still going on, given the paucity of information. He does not encourage them, as far as I know. It is a strange symbiosis. I am not a core fan even though I predict this report is real and will be published. You never know, because Rossi often changes his mind and his plans. He may cancel at the last minute. I guess there is some chance he is making the whole thing up. He is fun to watch. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: As 22 passi writes, if this is false (or made up) this will be proof of crazyness. There are some limits to everything. Good point. I guess it is one thing to announce vague grand plans to make 200,000 reactors a year. No one takes the grand plans seriously. It seems more crazy to make a specific announcement about a plausible test . . . which turns out to be a fiction. My worries are about the quality of the report. Yeah. It could be another cursory test where they do not even list the type of flowmeter in the report. Let us hope not. We'll see. Or we won't see. There is no point to getting your hopes up much with Rossi. He may well announce a drastic change in plans and a two-year delay. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On 2013-03-25 08:01, Harry Veeder wrote: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791#comments Andrea Rossi March 24th, 2013 at 10:53 PM Prometon s.r.l issued a related press release (in Italian): http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Comunicato_stampa_Prometeon_25_3_2013.pdf Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
On 03/25/2013 08:07 PM, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Prometon s.r.l issued a related press release (in Italian): http://www.22passi.it/downloads/Comunicato_stampa_Prometeon_25_3_2013.pdf Here's the Google translation: BOLOGNA. Completed the day before the test VALIDATION and the Hot Cat by third-party independent. Involved more than a dozen experts of various universities and nationalities. The official results will be published and made known in the coming months. We are happy to announce that, as announced in preview Eng. Andrea Rossi, week just ended were completed test sull'Hot Cat performed by independent third parties , whose specific aim was to ascertain, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the case of a source of energy and non-traditional COP eff ective of the apparatus, that is, substantially the relationship between the output power and that provided the n input. Therefore, during the long period of validation, went to boast for months with repeated tests on the three reactors made available by Leonardo Corp, are stat and accurate measurements made by 11 people, including physics professors and experts, belong containing four universities in different countries. Independent validators have had a chance A to carry out, in recent months, any of Measuring wanted on their reactors disposizi one: the only limitation was that it would open the reactors themselves, in which is contained the secret industrial strial, and that these were tested at normal regime of power for its customers, ie not pushed to the maximum. The scientists involved have worked in more t otal autonomy, neither Rossi nor any person external to the group of validators participated in the their briefing and planning of their measurements, and they all wanted to pay him the travel expenses, room and board. The test results will be published and made pub ders in the coming months, but it is Rossi himself to leaked the first rumors on his blog: I v alidatori told me that the last test lasted 120 hours of uninterrupted went well and that e ffetto is real beyond a reasonable doubt . He added the commercial director of Prometheus n, Aldo Proia: The validation performed by independent third parties, while being essentially u na confirmation of what the previously measured by Rossi in his test, its purpose is scientific , But it is hard to imagine that it can be soon a major impact on both the world dell'energ ia that the financial markets. Recall that the Hot Cat is a revolutionary reactor King, based on reactions LENR, capable of providing to high temperatures (around 600 ° C) large amounts A thermal energy in the face of modest amounts energy supplied in input, with considerable savings My for the user.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi says third party tests concluded
Axil, It looks like my speculation may be right. Rossi writes: 1. Andrea Rossi March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=791cpage=4#comment-664056 Dear Robert Tanhaus: 1- no, we revolutioned the technology separating the activation from the E-Cat, making 2 separated apparatuses in the same house: mouse ( activator) and Cat. *This has enhanced the efficiency of the E-Cat. *Has been an idea I got during a night of fever and asma attack... I couldn't sleep, it worked. 2- He is helping manufacturing the plants Warm Regards, A.R.
