Re: a cause celebre?
Jed wrote: Harry Veeder wrote: Toast? no I don't think so. The Russians slapped Amercians in the face by putting a satellite and a man in orbit first. JR: Good point. MC: Taking a global view, it doesn't matter who commercializes CF or BLP first. In 20 years it won't matter. If China were to be that nation, it would take the pressure off the oil supply for the rest of the world. Once deployed, the fact cannot be hidden, any more than the first use of an A bomb. The only real "secret" was that it could be done, and after that it was only a matter of time and will that others did so also, as we know. As Jed pointed out Sputnik and the world's reaction gave von Braun the license to put together pieces he had prepared and did likewise, and then spurred the US to do what nobody else has done yet, land men on the moon and bring them home. Commercialization of CF or BLP by China or Japan will spur the US into drastic action. The race then will not be uneven, for both China and Japan have the technical resources and incentive to pursue the technology. Both are oil-poor, as is the US, in comparison to our need. Weeping and wailing over the export of US technical skill is short sighted. A century ago, if you were a "real" chemist, you studied in Germany. The US has not been self sufficient in resources since the mid-30s. Some here have lamented the shipment of US cement and steel to China support thier current boom -- it's exports, guys, and we get paid -- remember that US hunger for raw materials from the developing world is seen by some in those countries as selling their future and birthright to buy toys for the thugs that run the country. The manufacturing expertise using statistical quality control that was developed in the US during WW2 was ignored in satisfying the consumer hunger after the war. Deming took that knowledge to Japan and they showed what efficient manufacturing trechnology could do -- eventually shaking the US automobile industry out of its lethargy. That knowledge is now widely understood, even used in the US now. Mike Carrell
Re: a cause celebre?
Harry Veeder wrote: Toast? no I don't think so. The Russians slapped Amercians in the face by putting a satellite and a man in orbit first. Good point. People wishing to play up this angle of the story -- in a message to someone in the media, for example -- should mention that cold fusion was rated one of the top 10 basic science breakthroughs of 2004 by the Nikkei Shimbun. The other day I describe how researchers like Mizuno and Iwamura are "hanging on by their fingernails" in Japan. That is true, as far as I know, but on the other hand they do have some pretty good hopes and some substantial backing. Perhaps I exaggerated how one-sided the fight is. Iwamura has officially been allocated "beam time" at the Spring-8 facility starting in the upcoming fiscal year (which begins in April). He reports that he is also collaborating with: "RIKEN, JASRI, University of Tokyo, Tokyo Institute of Technology and University of Shizuoka, in addition to University of Osaka, INFN-Frascati, University of Tohoku." If an American CF researcher had that kind of support he would think he had died and gone to heaven. I do not think it is likely that any nation will get far ahead of the US in cold fusion before we notice what is happening. I cannot imagine Toyota would surprise us with a market ready commercial cold fusion powered automobile. The development efforts would probably be no secret. They would be reported in trade magazines. Presumably, US industry would react even if the DoE did not. But who knows? After all, Toyota and Honda were openly developing hybrid automobiles for about 10 years, and playing up the public relations aspect of this research at every opportunity, while US manufacturers did absolutely *nothing* in response. I assume the situation would resemble our rivalry with Russia in rockets in the early 60s. It turned out they were not really so far ahead after all. Serious rivalry for commercially practical space ventures did not begin until the 80s when the Europeans began launching satellites cheaper than the US. Still, if China or Japan were to get one or two years ahead of the US in basic research on cold fusion, it might eventually translate into a large market share, as well as what you might call "leverage." This means the power to call the shots, and decide priorities such as which technologies are developed first. They would be in a position to dictate which US companies would be allowed to participate as junior partners, and how much of the market these junior partners would be allowed. You can play favorites and exploit other people's rivalry, the way a company such as Dell might play off Intel versus AMD. For a long time US lead in basic research and technology such as transistors, hard disks, telephony and so on. That did not mean that our rivals never developed these technologies, but an early lead in basic research did translate into a big market share, the ability to shape the market, to lord over our rivals, and many other advantages. - Jed
Re: A cause celebre?
Vince Cockeram wrote: Well, I don't know how much good it will do but here is a copy I sent to the DOE this morning. I think it would be more effective to contact newspapers, bloggers and other people in the media, rather than contacting the DoE directly. I was going to mention here that a Google search for "James Horwitz Basic Energy Sciences" instantly reveals Dr. Horowitz's address, telephone number and so on, but it would not be fair to pick on the poor man in person, so I shall refrain from saying anything about that. (Seriously, let's make this a larger media campaign, not a vendetta.) - Jed
Re: a cause celebre?
Title: Re: a cause celebre? Toast? no I don't think so. The Russians slapped Amercians in the face by putting a satellite and a man in orbit first. Harry RC Macaulay at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Short but to the point.. Storms put it in context... If China get CF before we do, we are toast. Of the alternates suggested.. jealousy, vanity,lust and.. the best motivation is "Greed" Suggestion,, the University may be challenged to match funds pledged by private business interests for the advancement of science. The pledges may be conditioned by stipulations including the specific research and the researcher. Nothing gets the attention of a University more than an offer of partial funding. They simply begin looking for a way to make things work out rather than look for ways to say no! Richard
Re: A cause celebre?
Well, I don't know how much good it will do but here is a copy I sent to the DOE this morning. === To: US Department of Energy Subject: Your "review" of cold fusion. When will you folks wake up? Cold Fusion has the potential of solving our energy needs and you still refuse to acknowledge the many quality experiments that have been done. I feel that this unreasonable attitude amounts to treason against the United States of America. If there is just the smallest possibility that there is something to the cold fusion claims and you denied a fair hearing, a long term in a maximum security lockup is what you deserve. We (The United States of America) cannot maintain our leadership in the world of science without exploring the unknown. And BTW, please stop pouring more billions my tax dollars into the wasted effort of the Tokamaks et al. Fifty years is enough. Sincerely, Vincent Cockeram Las Vegas Nevada = end Should I expect a visit from the MIB? Vince - Original Message - From: "Edmund Storms" To: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:06 AM Subject: Re: A cause celebre? Dear Frank, I totally agree with you. The time for being nice has past. The DOE has shown gross dishonesty and the energy situation is getting out of hand. The "Manifesto" is just the start. With a little luck and enough effort, we hope to get the public concerned. However, I have no allusions about the difficulty. If the issue involved any subject other than Cold Fusion, and perhaps UFOs, the press would be interested. Unfortunately, so many other issues are being generated these days by the US government that the press has difficulty keeping up even when it wants to. Anyway, if you know anyone in the press who might take an interest, please let me know. Regards, Ed
Re: A cause celebre?
Steve, > Good food for thought Jones. > > Then how about a cube of Pd ...out in the desert ... video cameras rolling > ...seismologists given advance warning? Make that a cube of Pd-Sb-Cl instead of Pd, some LN to "cryo-temper" the cube with (kind of like the pastis or Pernod ritual, Fred presiding) ... and then "Lights... Cameras... Action" oops... "Lights ... Cameras... Action...Duck-and-cover" Jones
Re: A cause celebre?
Good food for thought Jones. Then how about a cube of Pd ...out in the desert ... video cameras rolling ...seismologists given advance warning? Steve
Re: A cause celebre?
At 07:25 am 28-02-05 -0800, Jones wrote: > Steve, Frank et al. > > Speaking of this "incident" i.e. > >>> Charles called the "incident" a meltdown. I'm not quite >>> sure why he labeled it as such. The hole in the concrete >>> floor was 30cm wide by 10cm deep. Somebody want to tell me >>> that the concrete *melted*? I don't think so. > >> That is an extremely valuable confirmation of the facts, >> Steve. As an expert in the failure of concrete I can >> definitely say, that ain't no meltdown. ;-) > > And also, remember the runaway incident of Vince Cockeram. > It is too easy for the skeptics to call these incidents > "anecdotal," because they are singularities that have not > been reproduced, and were huge surprises even to the > experimenters. They just were not supposed to happen. If one > accepts that the accounts are true and accurate, of what has > transpired, then that raises the level of evidence to a > entirely different level above "anecdotal" IMHO. Too bloody right, mate!!! > This is something that is so unusual in science, that > the funders are at a total loss on how to proceed, > in time of tight budgets due to unnecessary war. > > Personally, I have absolutely no doubt that the accounts > are true and accurate accounts, so let's move on to the next > step. What do we have here? > > To me, the best analogy is an ancient shipwreck. Yep. Blackbeard's Treasure - and we've got the map that everyone else thinks is a forgery - but we know damn well it ain't. In trader's parlance, we have the necessary "edge". (see ISBN 0-06-074064-7 page 16). > Let's say some dusty threadbare evidence has been found in a > Madrid library about a treasure ship that went down five > hundred years ago off the coast of Florida. A manifest of > the contents is listed. OK this is somewhat anecdotal, > right? Five hundred years clouds a lot of memories, and > maybe the pirates got it first, or the manifest was faked, > or maybe the captain absconded with the goods and called it > a shipwreck, etc. etc. > > You can ignore it, which is what most people do, or you can > try to do something about it. If you have $80,000 you can > hire a small boat and a diver and search for a few years and > probably turn up nothing. There is a lot of ocean out there. > > Like many visitors to Key West in thirty years ago, I met > Mel Fisher in a bar (he made the rounds daily to all the > bars) and was given the spiel on the Atocha. At the time, my > thinking was more like Bob Park, and I thought this guy was > nuts and wasting his time and the money or others. > > Fast forward, and we find Mel and his investors (and the > great state of Florida) now several hundred million dollars > wealthier, because he was able to overcome natural > skepticism about second hand accounts that "appeared" > reliable, and raise considerably more capital than other > treasure hunters (it is addictive, I hear) in order to > finance his dream. It paid off. > > The comparison here to cold fusion is that instead of > several hundred million dollars found in the Atocha, finding > the answer to either of the two" anecdotal" incidents, known > and appreciated by the vortex crowd as accurate accounts, > the payoff will be in the hundreds of billions of > dollars...or is that an exaggeration? I think not. > > How much effort does that warrant? Certainly a quarter of > the yearly hot fusion budget, no? > > Jones If you were practising as a barrister, Jones, and I was up before the beak, I'd certainly want you on my case. ;-) Cheers, Frank Where do I find out about "the runaway incident of Vince Cockeram."
Re: A cause celebre?
Did F&P ever tell what was so special about their Palladium? These people know: http://www.matthey.com/ but they weren't talking either last time I heard. They add Antimony per Sparber's conjecture? Jones Beene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How much effort does that warrant? Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
Re: A cause celebre?
Steve, Frank et al. Speaking of this "incident" i.e. > Charles called the "incident" a meltdown. I'm not quite sure why he labeled it as such. The hole in the concrete floor was 30cm wide by 10cm deep. Somebody want to tell me that the concrete *melted*? I don't think so. >> That is an extremely valuable confirmation of the facts, Steve. As an expert in the failure of concrete I can definitely say, that ain't no meltdown. ;-) And also, remember the runaway incident of Vince Cockeram. It is too easy for the skeptics to call these incidents "anecdotal," because they are singularities that have not been reproduced, and were huge surprises even to the experimenters. They just were not supposed to happen. If one accepts that the accounts are true and accurate, of what has transpired, then that raises the level of evidence to a entirely different level above "anecdotal" IMHO. This is something that is so unusual in science, that the funders are at a total loss on how to proceed, in time of tight budgets due to unnecessary war. Personally, I have absolutely not doubt that the accounts are true and accurate accounts, so let's move on to the next step. What do we have here? To me, the best analogy is an ancient shipwreck. Let's say some dusty threadbare evidence has been found in a Madrid library about a treasure ship that went down five hundred years ago off the coast of Florida. A manifest of the contents is listed. OK this is somewhat anecdotal, right? Five hundred years clouds a lot of memories, and maybe the pirates got it first, or the manifest was faked, or maybe the captain absconded with the goods and called it a shipwreck, etc. etc. You can ignore it, which is what most people do, or you can try to do something about it. If you have $80,000 you can hire a small boat and a diver and search for a few years and probably turn up nothing. There is a lot of ocean out there. Like many visitors to Key West in thirty years ago, I met Mel Fisher in a bar (he made the rounds daily to all the bars) and was given the spiel on the Atocha. At the time, my thinking was more like Bob Park, and I thought this guy was nuts and wasting his time and the money or others. Fast forward, and we find Mel and his investors (and the great state of Florida) now several hundred million dollars wealthier, because he was able to overcome natural skepticism about second hand accounts that "appeared" reliable, and raise considerably more capital than other treasure hunters (it is addictive, I hear) in order to finance his dream. It paid off. The comparison here to cold fusion is that instead of several hundred million dollars found in the Atocha, finding the answer to either of the two" anecdotal" incidents, known and appreciated by the vortex crowd as accurate accounts, the payoff will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars...or is that an exaggeration? I think not. How much effort does that warrant? Certainly a quarter of the yearly hot fusion budget, no? Jones
Re: A cause celebre?
Jed, Just a thought .. it may be more strategic to posture DOE as acting more "ridiculously" rather than "unfairly." Steve
Re: A cause celebre?
At 05:18 pm 27-02-05 -0800, you wrote: > Frank, > > >> You want press attention? >> >> I'll give you press attention. >> >> Start a research program to develop a CF bomb with the >> avowed intention of saving America by getting there >> before the terrorists do. You will get all the press >> attention you can handle - and then some. Probably >> get quite a lot of financial support from crazy gun >> lobby billionaires too, I shouldn't wonder. > > Charles called the "incident" a meltdown. I'm not quite sure why he labeled > it as such. I interviewed Ashley as well, and also read Taubes' interview > of Ashley. They all match. I talked with Martin about this in as much > detail as he was willing and able to remember. There was particulate in the > air in the morning - but nothing was burning. The hole in the concrete > floor was 30cm wide by 10cm deep. Somebody want to tell me that the > concrete *melted*? I don't think so. > > Steve That is an extremely valuable confirmation of the facts, Steve. As an expert in the failure of concrete I can definitely say, that ain't no meltdown. ;-) I'm glad we've now got your independent testimony in the Vortex archives for all to read and reference. Frank
Re: A cause celebre?
Because he said he will probably retire. He is giving up. He has been trying for years to get funding. He even thought of going to China. I shot back an answer saying "Wait! I will do my best to help." The other readers here should pitch in, and tell Mel Miles you stand with him. - Jed Jed, I think our best tools and weapons are the Internet. In light of the fact that what we have here is a failure to communicate between the cold fusion community and the rest of the world, I am thinking of developing some video documentary segments and putting them up on New Energy Times. These are my understandings: - The general public is much more receptive to video than they are print. - Since we are dealing with a -belief- and -perception- problem, and not a fact problem, the effect of a "real live" person talking, appearing visually, can not only have a far more powerful effect to reach people, but it also has the ability to carry emotions, which text does not. And emotions, not facts, are what drive people to act and respond. This is my situation and proposal: I am in a position to create a short video documentary of Mel. He lives just an hour away from me. I just went down to SPAWAR and filmed Szpak, Boss and Gordon a few weeks ago in anticipation of their forthcoming Volume 3. We shot about 1.5 hours talking about many aspects in general, as well as their unique contribution to the field, co-deposition. I did that shoot on the cheap with a local filmmaker who's had some experience doing documentaries and who is sympathetic to cold fusion. Mind you, he's not a producer-type, deep-pockets-type, Chris is a hands-on tech-type and knows how to stage, shoot and edit. I have not yet figured out what level and quality of post-production I want to do on the SPAWAR segment yet. Part of that depends on funds. So I can see doing some film work with Mel's situation. I know his story and could easily have a nice talk with him on-camera, maybe get some of the ULV administrators on camera showing their support of Mel, etc. Here is my situation: My computer niche has slowly obsoleted itself, down to now about 5% of my time. I've had plans to start up in a new business altogether, but a few weeks ago, after I produced newsletter #8, an individual said he liked what I was doing - and offered to kick in some limited support. For the moment, I am doing everything I can for this cause, directing my attention to provide news and educational information on the field. I've got a few projects on the burner right now. I'm giving two presentations at APS in March, and I have newsletter #9 in the works. Between the Mizuno explosion and the Miles/Horwitz issue, I'm scrambling as quick as I can to write and edit. Once that's done, I'm going to engage in a hunt for additional funding to continue this work. The point of all this, coming back to the thread, is that if anybody is interested in helping to pay the post-production costs for either/both the SPAWAR segment and a future M.Miles segment, I will make them happen and make the documentaries freely available on the Web. The costs to shoot are relatively inexpensive, but I don't know off the top of my head the post-production (editing etc.) costs. If anyone is interested in funding this project, I can get pricing options. Also, tax-deductible donations can be arranged. However, there is an unavoidable fact that must be considered with this outreach idea: We still need a news hook. We can make the most interesting, inspiring short documentary, but if the public doesn't CLEARLY have something to tie the situation to in their own lives - it won't go any further than preaching to the choir. The story needs to reach people that have not yet been reached on the subject of cold fusion. What would drive people to learn about this story? What fear? What desire? People need to picture gasoline at $10 or $20 a gallon. Or rising ocean water levels. Or more extinct species. Or buying cold fusion "batteries" from China. By the way, the predecessor to my book, The 2004 Cold Fusion Report has been translated into Chinese (by volunteers, no less) and is in the editing and proof-reading phase...I think this shows some rather strong interest. So I guess this is where I come full circle - and arrive without a crucial answer to this enigma. How to get the attention of people who don't know and don't care, but would really want to know and care - if they only knew -- just a little more. I leave this question in the hands of the brilliant group mind of Vortex. One further thought...as Grimer noted, on the subject of Machiavelli. Do we really expect the government to support cold fusion? Is this a fantasy? Honestly, I think the best way to get the USG to fund cold fusion is for China to show up with a cold fusion reactor or heater. Sputnik, the sequel. Steve
Re: A cause celebre?
Frank, You want press attention? I'll give you press attention. Start a research program to develop a CF bomb with the avowed intention of saving America by getting there before the terrorists do. You will get all the press attention you can handle - and then some. Probably get quite a lot of financial support from crazy gun lobby billionaires too, I shouldn't wonder. Charles called the "incident" a meltdown. I'm not quite sure why he labeled it as such. I interviewed Ashley as well, and also read Taubes' interview of Ashley. They all match. I talked with Martin about this in as much detail as he was willing and able to remember. There was particulate in the air in the morning - but nothing was burning. The hole in the concrete floor was 30cm wide by 10cm deep. Somebody want to tell me that the concrete *melted*? I don't think so. Steve
Re: A cause celebre?
--- Grimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's no good saying "the development of small CF > bombs is unlikely". Until we know why and how cold > fusion works we are only guessing as to what's > likely and what ain't. On the contrary, consider the hypothetical situation that the reason the DoE won't fund the project is because of how *easy* it is to make a "leaner (LENR) bomb". It's a lot harder to build a nuke pile in a stadium in Chicago than a hot jar in Utah. "drip, drip, drip" __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: a cause celebre?
RC Macaulay wrote: > Suggestion,, the University may be challenged to match funds pledged by > private business interests for the > advancement of science. As I said, Miles needs the cooperation of the government, not only for the money, but for materials from the Navy. - Jed
Re: a cause celebre'
Gosh! Keith.. Grimer has me in here because I'm crazy, not stupid. Going to Houston doesn't mean sticking my head in Exxon's mouth. The idea is to approach money for " seed " money. Foundations love to" participate" NOT carry the bucket. Besides, you fudged on the pic of the girl.. she's not wearing safety goggles. a no no! Richard <>
Re: a cause celebre"
A defeatist attitude insures only one thing .. defeat. A short story follows.. a few years back, at the national Weftec conference we had a booth exhibiting our product line. At the time Vivendi-US Filter of France was the king of the hill in water treating equipment manufacturing. Overheard was a comment by one of their people stating they would run our small firm ,building a single product line ,out of business in a year. Shazzaam! They are now back in the porn movie business where they belong, having sold US Filter to Seimens of Germany. Seimens, being too smart to fight a winner is ceding the specific market to us just as Severn-Trent is doing. All of which means if you are tough smart and tenacious you have, at the least, a chance. LENR-CANR has a chance, perhaps slim or great..For sure, you cant play poker with scared money. No more defeatist chatter.. organize, develope a winning strategy and assign tasks.. time is on your side as long as progress is being made. Battles are won and lost in the mind before any shots are fired. Ask Napoleon who won and how? Richard <>
Re: A cause celebre?
At 02:28 pm 27-02-05 -0500, Jed wrote: >Frank Grimer writes: > >> I have a suggestion - but you will probably find it far >> too Machiavellian. I believe, and I speak from real life >> experience, that the best way to get people's attention >> is to scare the shit out of them. > I could frighten them if I could get their attention, You want people's attention? I'll give you people's attention. Repeat the Pons and Fleishmann experiment, only this time, instead of a one centimeter cube, use a 6 inch cube. == In EXCESS HEAT, page 36, Beaudette writes, -- Kevin Ashley was a graduate student of Pons in the chemistry department. He witnessed the scene the morning after the meltdown. "This one morning I walk in, the door is open and Pons and Fleischmann are in the room with Joe:.. The lab is a mess and there is particulate dust in the air. On this lab bench are the remnants of an experiment. The bench was one of those black top benches that was made of very, very hard material. There were cabinets under one end of the bench, but the experiment was near the middle where there was nothing underneath. I was astonished that there was a hole through the thing. The hole was about a foot in diameter. Under the hole was a pretty good sized pit in the concrete floor. It may have been as much as four inches deep. "What really surprised me," Ashley continued, "was that Stan and Martin Fleischmann had these looks on their faces as though they were the car that had just swallowed the canary. The:' were clearly not displeased with this mess, They were happy about what had happened. I was rather surprised by this, very surprised by this." == I know how they felt. I felt exactly the same when I inspected GRC clad buildings which were falling apart. On one occasion at the high security Midland Bank Computer Building in Sheffield my glee was so manifest I had to explain to my minders that though they were attending a funeral I was celebrating a wedding. And if buildings crumble and grad students die - tough! When will Americans learn that success in things that really matter cannot be bought with dollars - it has to be bought with blood. If Brits hadn't learned the "blood, sweat toil and tears." lesson well in 1940s the Falklands would now be under the jackboot of an Galtieri dictatorship. You want press attention? I'll give you press attention. Start a research program to develop a CF bomb with the avowed intention of saving America by getting there before the terrorists do. You will get all the press attention you can handle - and then some. Probably get quite a lot of financial support from crazy gun lobby billionaires too, I shouldn't wonder. As for global warming, only overfed western liberals who've nothing better to worry about give a damn. Who cares whether the world lasts another hundred or another thousand years. We'll all be dead long before that anyway. Cheers ;-) Frank Grimer
Re: a cause celebre?
Short but to the point.. Storms put it in context... If China get CF before we do, we are toast. Of the alternates suggested.. jealousy, vanity,lust and.. the best motivation is "Greed" Suggestion,, the University may be challenged to match funds pledged by private business interests for the advancement of science. The pledges may be conditioned by stipulations including the specific research and the researcher. Nothing gets the attention of a University more than an offer of partial funding. They simply begin looking for a way to make things work out rather than look for ways to say no! Richard <>
RE: A cause celebre?
Hi Ed, you write: >Granted this is a sign of failure. However, we are not using fear, >only embarrassment, at least with respect to the DOE. The population >needs to realize the advantages of CF. The fear only comes if the >advantages are ignored, in the same manner death comes if the advantages >of medicine are ignored. I was responding more to Frank Grimers suggestions; as far as I have seen so far you and Jed are dabbling in populism, in particular the sort of victimhood politics which previously were the domain of the left and are now the dominant domain of the right. I say this in a descriptive fashion, please don't take offense here. I don't think we can get very far on this issue without talking about things in a way which will repulse and disgust most rational people. So as it applies here, the DOE is the big bad government monster, and Mel is the poor downtrodden victimized scientist. That's the frame you're using, yes? >Tell me Keith, how does one go about seducing the DOE? My experience >with the government is that it is immune to seduction. It can be >bought, it can be threatened by popular pressure, or it can be >embarrassed. Otherwise, it does what current attitudes dictate. That's what most men think about women, which is why it always shocks them when the wife/girlfriend runs off with the personal trainer. That said, I was under the impression that the DOE was a dead issue at this point. RC seems to be leaning towards Houston money people ( wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall when he tries to convince them to donate money to a California liberal arts college professor to do work that will undermine the petroleum industry? More power to you RC, if you can sell them on this I'll personally fly to Texas just to shake the hand of such a master salesman ). Everyone else seems to be leaning towards populist methods. As regards the seduction approach, you've got the wrong poster boy for starters. Read that post I did a few days ago about my Soho gallery experience, it was easy to pick out the artist, she was the most gorgeous girl in the room. Hardly an accident. I'll be really crass and say, why don't you get a hold of this person http://www.lenr-canr.org/images/Leeexperimentlarge.jpg as the public face of your effort. I can at least say that if you do an internet begging site as John suggests you'll get far more donations from that photo than from this one... http://www.ulv.edu/chemistry/img/biopic_miles.jpg Feeling oily yet? It only gets worse my friend... >If China gets CF before we do, we are toast. Also, China is not a >pleasant place to work, being very polluted. Why? Who do you think will be manufacturing the CF devices? The manufacturing base in this country is long gone. We'll be buying it from them no matter how things play out. In fact, the patent situation being what it is, we're already precluded from commercial success here in America. I mean, if all that business with the DOE wasn't about trying to change things at the USPTO, then what was it? K.
Re: A cause celebre?
Keith Nagel wrote: Frank writes: You wrote "I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it is over the top." Goodness me! You sound like Ned Flanders. All credit to Mel Miles for his gutsey reply. Why on earth did it depress you. I can't answer for Ed or Jed, but it depresses me because it's a sign of desperation and failure. Fear is a good motivator for destroying things; the techniques and methods you describe are generally used for destructive purposes. For example, if we wished to _stop_ CF research fear would be a good way to go about it. Granted this is a sign of failure. However, we are not using fear, only embarrassment, at least with respect to the DOE. The population needs to realize the advantages of CF. The fear only comes if the advantages are ignored, in the same manner death comes if the advantages of medicine are ignored. But we're trying to _create_ something here. And therein lies the rub. If you're looking to engage the emotions, the relevant one here is seduction, not fear. Think Clinton, not Bush. Needless to say, if you think scientists are bad at the fear game, their general ineptitude at seduction is legendary (grin). But you can't frighten people into the new, they must be seduced there. Tell me Keith, how does one go about seducing the DOE? My experience with the government is that it is immune to seduction. It can be bought, it can be threatened by popular pressure, or it can be embarrassed. Otherwise, it does what current attitudes dictate. By the way, what's so horrible about China? If China gets CF before we do, we are toast. Also, China is not a pleasant place to work, being very polluted. Regards, Ed K.
RE: A cause celebre?
Take a page from Howard Dean. Credit Card donations over the internet. Lots of money can be collected in a grass roots campaign... -john -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] As for what else we can do . . . Does anyone here have suggestions? If there are steps that cost a few thousand dollars I would be willing to pay for them. The most effective steps probably will not cost much. Here are few ideas:
RE: A cause celebre?
Frank writes: >You wrote "I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it >is over the top." Goodness me! You sound like >Ned Flanders. All credit to Mel Miles for his >gutsey reply. Why on earth did it depress you. I can't answer for Ed or Jed, but it depresses me because it's a sign of desperation and failure. Fear is a good motivator for destroying things; the techniques and methods you describe are generally used for destructive purposes. For example, if we wished to _stop_ CF research fear would be a good way to go about it. But we're trying to _create_ something here. And therein lies the rub. If you're looking to engage the emotions, the relevant one here is seduction, not fear. Think Clinton, not Bush. Needless to say, if you think scientists are bad at the fear game, their general ineptitude at seduction is legendary (grin). But you can't frighten people into the new, they must be seduced there. By the way, what's so horrible about China? K.
Re: A cause celebre? - with two for one benefits
If Mel does get an experiment going, it might attract more attention than most CF research does. Suppose he is funded after a well-publicized battle, partly because a half-dozen reporters publish his story. Six months later, we call those reporters back and say, "guess what, it worked." My guess is they would be inclined to publish a follow-up story. - Jed
Re: A cause celebre?
Michael Foster writes: > Would you care to tell us how much money would constitute > funding for Mel Miles? When you know what your goal is > it's usually easier to reach. Good question. I have no idea. I have copied this response to Miles. Perhaps part of the goal here is to get "official" money from a credible source. Sometimes this helps when it is time to submit a paper to peer-review at a journal. Also, Miles needs the cooperation of the government and the U.S. Navy in particular, since he wants materials from Szpak et al. (See his comments in the Manifesto.) - Jed
Re: A cause celebre?
Jed wrote: > Because he said he will probably retire. He is giving up. > He has been trying for years to get funding. He even > thought of going to China. I shot back an answer saying > "Wait! I will do my best to help." The other readers here > should pitch in, and tell Mel Miles you stand with him. Would you care to tell us how much money would constitute funding for Mel Miles? When you know what your goal is it's usually easier to reach. M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: A cause celebre?
Frank Grimer writes: > I have a suggestion - but you will probably find it far > too Machiavellian. I believe, and I speak from real life > experience, that the best way to get people's attention > is to scare the shit out of them. I could frighten them if I could get their attention, but they do not listen. Even without terrorist CF bombs, there is plenty to be frightened of, such as global warming. (By the way, if I take out a Google ad, I think I should associate it with the search words "global warming.") The book also has a chapter on CF powered weapons, which is pretty scary even without CF nuclear bombs. > You wrote "I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it > is over the top." Goodness me! You sound like > Ned Flanders. All credit to Mel Miles for his > gutsey reply. Why on earth did it depress you. Because he said he will probably retire. He is giving up. He has been trying for years to get funding. He even thought of going to China. I shot back an answer saying "Wait! I will do my best to help." The other readers here should pitch in, and tell Mel Miles you stand with him. - Jed
Re: A cause celebre?
Dear Frank, I totally agree with you. The time for being nice has past. The DOE has shown gross dishonesty and the energy situation is getting out of hand. The "Manifesto" is just the start. With a little luck and enough effort, we hope to get the public concerned. However, I have no allusions about the difficulty. If the issue involved any subject other than Cold Fusion, and perhaps UFOs, the press would be interested. Unfortunately, so many other issues are being generated these days by the US government that the press has difficulty keeping up even when it wants to. Anyway, if you know anyone in the press who might take an interest, please let me know. Regards, Ed Grimer wrote: At 06:10 pm 26-02-05 -0500, Jed wrote: A mainstream CF researcher asked Ed Storms and I to tone down or remove the Manifesto we posted on Thursday, "THE DOE LIES!" I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it is over the top. He replied with a very depressing message. He says he understands why traditionally minded academic researchers may feel this is excessive, but he thinks the Manifesto is justified, and he agrees we should leave it. As for what else we can do . . Does anyone here have suggestions? I have a suggestion - but you will probably find it far too Machiavellian. I believe, and I speak from real life experience, that the best way to get people's attention is to scare the shit out of them. As an illustration consider this personal history. = When I was working in the Structural Division of the Building Research Station, my particular section was charged with the responsibility of anticipating systemic structural failure before they happened. Our cutting edge research on concrete had shown that existing ideas about concrete failure were seriously defective. This had relevant implications for the safety of the British AGRs (Advanced Gas-cooled Reactors) since they use prestressed concrete for their pressure vessels. However, though what we had discovered suggested that AGRs weren't as safe as people imagined, I wasn't to fazed about it since I didn't live near one. However, Chernobyl and a BBC TV programme on the Hartlepool AGR which described how they were tightening the loose tendons (rather than loosening the tight ones) brought home to me the frailty of human endeavours. I acquainted my division head with my views just in case he ever came across more detailed information of problems in that area. Some years later we had a re-tread Director (from Porton Down) who happened to read one of my way out internal notes to which he took violent exception. So much so that I was banned from internal publication on my own authority. As you might expect this really pissed me off. So, to his utter fury, I appealed against the decision on the grounds that the suppression had implication for the safety of nuclear reactors. Now about that time there had been a lot of worry about civil servants whistle blowing by taking information on internal shenanigans to the press. To reduce this leakage an appeal system was set up giving every civil servant the right of appeal to the very head (Permanent Secretary) of his Department. Furthermore, if the PS saw fit, the appeal could proceed all the way up to the Head of the Home Civil Service and Cabinet Secretary, Robin Butler himself, (now Lord Butler) and, not unnaturally in view of the subject matter, the buck was passed right to the top. Nigel and I finished up in the RB's room in the Cabinet Office explaining the problem. Needless to say poor Robin was as out of his depth as Christopher Robin would have been. He was very nice about though but explained that he had no choice but to rely on the advice of his underlings. On its journey our appeal went through the scrutiny of a supposedly "Expert Committee" (what a farce that was but I'll save that for another time) with the inevitable fudge that I was given 15 weeks to write a paper going into the reasons for my concerns in greater depth. I said I needed 2 years to do the job properly (that being the time to my retirement ;-) ) and if they weren't prepared for that then they obviously weren't taking the matter seriously. There the matter rested. = So if you want to get people's attention, all you have to do is to point out to the great unwashed, in as lurid a way as you can, that if the Evil Empire harnesses Cold Fusion before the US, they will all finish up reading the koran and wearing chadors. It's no good saying "the development of small CF bombs is unlikely". Until we know why and how cold fusion works we are only guessing as to what's likely and what ain't. The point is, since nine-eleven the American public are running sc
Re: A cause celebre?
At 06:10 pm 26-02-05 -0500, Jed wrote: > A mainstream CF researcher asked Ed Storms and I to > tone down or remove the Manifesto we posted on Thursday, > "THE DOE LIES!" I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it > is over the top. He replied with a very depressing message. > He says he understands why traditionally minded academic > researchers may feel this is excessive, but he thinks the > Manifesto is justified, and he agrees we should leave it. >As for what else we can do . . Does anyone here have suggestions? I have a suggestion - but you will probably find it far too Machiavellian. I believe, and I speak from real life experience, that the best way to get people's attention is to scare the shit out of them. As an illustration consider this personal history. = When I was working in the Structural Division of the Building Research Station, my particular section was charged with the responsibility of anticipating systemic structural failure before they happened. Our cutting edge research on concrete had shown that existing ideas about concrete failure were seriously defective. This had relevant implications for the safety of the British AGRs (Advanced Gas-cooled Reactors) since they use prestressed concrete for their pressure vessels. However, though what we had discovered suggested that AGRs weren't as safe as people imagined, I wasn't to fazed about it since I didn't live near one. However, Chernobyl and a BBC TV programme on the Hartlepool AGR which described how they were tightening the loose tendons (rather than loosening the tight ones) brought home to me the frailty of human endeavours. I acquainted my division head with my views just in case he ever came across more detailed information of problems in that area. Some years later we had a re-tread Director (from Porton Down) who happened to read one of my way out internal notes to which he took violent exception. So much so that I was banned from internal publication on my own authority. As you might expect this really pissed me off. So, to his utter fury, I appealed against the decision on the grounds that the suppression had implication for the safety of nuclear reactors. Now about that time there had been a lot of worry about civil servants whistle blowing by taking information on internal shenanigans to the press. To reduce this leakage an appeal system was set up giving every civil servant the right of appeal to the very head (Permanent Secretary) of his Department. Furthermore, if the PS saw fit, the appeal could proceed all the way up to the Head of the Home Civil Service and Cabinet Secretary, Robin Butler himself, (now Lord Butler) and, not unnaturally in view of the subject matter, the buck was passed right to the top. Nigel and I finished up in the RB's room in the Cabinet Office explaining the problem. Needless to say poor Robin was as out of his depth as Christopher Robin would have been. He was very nice about though but explained that he had no choice but to rely on the advice of his underlings. On its journey our appeal went through the scrutiny of a supposedly "Expert Committee" (what a farce that was but I'll save that for another time) with the inevitable fudge that I was given 15 weeks to write a paper going into the reasons for my concerns in greater depth. I said I needed 2 years to do the job properly (that being the time to my retirement ;-) ) and if they weren't prepared for that then they obviously weren't taking the matter seriously. There the matter rested. = So if you want to get people's attention, all you have to do is to point out to the great unwashed, in as lurid a way as you can, that if the Evil Empire harnesses Cold Fusion before the US, they will all finish up reading the koran and wearing chadors. It's no good saying "the development of small CF bombs is unlikely". Until we know why and how cold fusion works we are only guessing as to what's likely and what ain't. The point is, since nine-eleven the American public are running scared. Why else do you think that they re-elected Bush. They are scared that next time things will be nucular (to use my favourite Bushism). And the more extreme religious right are probably even more scared that muhammadan hoards are going to come sweeping across America as they did across Africa in the middle ages. You need to play upon that fear - just like the insurance companies play on the fear of all sorts of unlikely injuries and happenstance. And if the claimed percentages for belief in flying saucers and little green men is true (we may even include some Vortexians) then the evidence of a group of respectable scientists who are prepared to stand up and shou
Re: a cause celebre'
RC Macaulay wrote: I will need the name of the University working with Mel. University of La Verne http://www.ulv.edu/ He is teaching there. - Jed
RE: A cause celebre?
Feb. 26, 2005 Vortex, I see Miles is making a presentation at the March APS meeting.so is Miley and others well known to him. I presume Miles is salaried at the current university and they are generous enough to give a free hand in CF experimentation.. Perhaps he can get a paid leave of absence to pursue CF work. If so, he could join Miley or others as a visiting professor and he could contribute his expertise. Perhaps he could make the contacts at the March APS meeting. Remember Miley just received a large grant ($100 K) from the New Energy Foundation that took over Infinite Energy. I would think Miles could make a proposal to enable him to pursue his CF ideas together with laboratories involved with CF. This way foundation funds will not be wasted in duplicate facilities. The New Energy Foundation should undertake a larger profile campaign (fight) for CF while they solicit tax deductible donations for their non profit efforts. -ak- > [Original Message] > From: Jed Rothwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2/26/2005 3:11:02 PM > Subject: A cause celebre? > > A mainstream CF researcher asked Ed Storms and I to tone down or remove the Manifesto we posted on Thursday, "THE DOE LIES!" I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it is over the top. He replied with a very depressing message. He says he understands why traditionally minded academic researchers may feel this is excessive, but he thinks the Manifesto is justified, and he agrees we should leave it. > > He also said the university stands by him, and would like him to work on CF full time. They have even agreed to release him from teaching. But without funding the project cannot begin. Miles has been looking for funding for years. He even considered going to China. He feels the DoE was his last chance. He is old, and he will probably retire for good now. He yearns to do another CF experiment, but he has no way to do it. > > I have a feeling we -- the people who support CF -- should try to make this a cause celebre. Perhaps this time the public will see that the opposition has gone too far. Ed & I are trying to stir up the public with out bold red headline, but so far the response has been lukewarm. 150 copies of the Manifesto have been downloaded. > > I am not sure what we should do, or what we can can do. But I have a sense that Mel is a perfect "poster boy" (as the dreadful modern cliche has it). Consider: > > The University supports him, and is willing to let him do research full time. > He has a stellar record. > He is old; this is his last chance. > > As for what else we can do . . . Does anyone here have suggestions? If there are steps that cost a few thousand dollars I would be willing to pay for them. The most effective steps probably will not cost much. Here are few ideas: > > Expand the headlines and the document. Call upon the readers here and at LENR-CANR to speak up, contact their Congressmen, contact reporters. Of course we have all done this sort of thing before, but we have seldom had such a clear-cut injustice, and such a straightforward, reasonable demand. I think people will see that we are > not asking for much. We want the government to give a research grant to a scientist that the government itself nominated at "Distinguished Fellow." If that is not a reasonable, sensible demand, what is? > > Perhaps we could purchase advertising on Google. Not sure what, but whenever anyone types "cold fusion," or "energy" we could have small ad come up saying: > > THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY BROKE ITS PROMISE > WE DEMAND FUNDING FOR COLD FUSION NOW > THE LAST CHANCE FOR ONE OF AMERICA'S LEADING SCIENTISTS > [Link to LENR-CANR.org] > > Putting an ad like that in newspapers would be terribly expensive, but perhaps Google would be cheaper. I do not know. > > If thousands, or tens of thousands, of people read the manifesto (and the HTML pages), and they contacted the authorities, perhaps it would have an effect. > > Other CF researchers would prefer we do this quietly, behind the scenes, the polite academic old-school way. Ed & I feel that the time for that has passed. > > - Jed > >
Re: a cause celebre'
Jed, There is a lot of research money out there in the " non profit foundation sector". Interesting in they are looking at " matching" grants. Find a few bucks that some private industry groups will pledge and the foundations will match or sometimes provide up to 5:1 or 10:1 matching. They usually want the research funneled to a particular University.. but.. thats a sell. Let me know at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I will approach several foundations in Houston and have our company sponsor some seed money. I will need the name of the University working with Mel. As we say down here...lets dont talk about in anymore..lets do it! Jed.. get it done!! Richard <>
RE: A cause celebre?
This problem has my mind twisting and roiling. Jed, your frustration and that of Ed Storms is palpable, and I can understand why. Here are some suggestions. Keep the Manifesto. It worked pretty well for Marx. It worked pretty well for the Bauhaus. I was going to suggest that the public is inured to government scientists lying, but what the hell, it always makes a good story. You have to make your case in terms of a government cover-up, like Watergate. You might be able to pull this off for no dollar outlay whatever. If not, you can hire a low-budget PR firm. These people always know whom to contact. Here's the main plan. This worked surprisingly well for me, although it was quite a long time ago. If your timing is right and you are lucky, you can get millions of dollars worth of free publicity. Call one of your local TV stations, which is also a network affiliate, and see it you can get in contact with a reporter. Just keep at it until you get someone. Remember we are presently going through a slow news period. The elections are over, both here and in Iraq. Most of the news right now is more or less manufactured, so right now would be perfect unless something exciting occurs. In other words, the news business is just begging for something to talk about. If you finally get someone to talk to, just tell them what's happening. You know, the usual, thousands of reputable scientists getting positive CF results, the scientific establishment suppressing all the information, etc., etc. You might throw in some of your petrocracy suppression ideas and you must include the fact that a large Japanese corporation is taking this very seriously and providing funding. This fact is practically unknown in the U.S. Make it sound like breaking news. Do the same thing with a local newspaper. You're bound to get some sort of coverage. It's important to time this so that both the TV news and the newspaper carry your story with in a few days of each other. This makes it seem more important. If everything goes as planned, and you are lucky, the TV station's network will pick it up and the AP might pick it up from your local newspaper. You simply can't get any better advertising at any price. BTW, I suggest you try your local CBS affiliate. The have a little greater tendency to take local stories national and they will do almost anything to divert attention from their recent Dan Rather problem. Something else probably needs to be emphasized. You really need to make clear that the funding required here is far, far less than almost any other government project. This can be very low budget research compared to most. Worth a try, no? M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
A cause celebre?
A mainstream CF researcher asked Ed Storms and I to tone down or remove the Manifesto we posted on Thursday, "THE DOE LIES!" I asked Mel Miles whether he thinks it is over the top. He replied with a very depressing message. He says he understands why traditionally minded academic researchers may feel this is excessive, but he thinks the Manifesto is justified, and he agrees we should leave it. He also said the university stands by him, and would like him to work on CF full time. They have even agreed to release him from teaching. But without funding the project cannot begin. Miles has been looking for funding for years. He even considered going to China. He feels the DoE was his last chance. He is old, and he will probably retire for good now. He yearns to do another CF experiment, but he has no way to do it. I have a feeling we -- the people who support CF -- should try to make this a cause celebre. Perhaps this time the public will see that the opposition has gone too far. Ed & I are trying to stir up the public with out bold red headline, but so far the response has been lukewarm. 150 copies of the Manifesto have been downloaded. I am not sure what we should do, or what we can can do. But I have a sense that Mel is a perfect "poster boy" (as the dreadful modern cliche has it). Consider: The University supports him, and is willing to let him do research full time. He has a stellar record. He is old; this is his last chance. As for what else we can do . . . Does anyone here have suggestions? If there are steps that cost a few thousand dollars I would be willing to pay for them. The most effective steps probably will not cost much. Here are few ideas: Expand the headlines and the document. Call upon the readers here and at LENR-CANR to speak up, contact their Congressmen, contact reporters. Of course we have all done this sort of thing before, but we have seldom had such a clear-cut injustice, and such a straightforward, reasonable demand. I think people will see that we are not asking for much. We want the government to give a research grant to a scientist that the government itself nominated at "Distinguished Fellow." If that is not a reasonable, sensible demand, what is? Perhaps we could purchase advertising on Google. Not sure what, but whenever anyone types "cold fusion," or "energy" we could have small ad come up saying: THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY BROKE ITS PROMISE WE DEMAND FUNDING FOR COLD FUSION NOW THE LAST CHANCE FOR ONE OF AMERICA'S LEADING SCIENTISTS [Link to LENR-CANR.org] Putting an ad like that in newspapers would be terribly expensive, but perhaps Google would be cheaper. I do not know. If thousands, or tens of thousands, of people read the manifesto (and the HTML pages), and they contacted the authorities, perhaps it would have an effect. Other CF researchers would prefer we do this quietly, behind the scenes, the polite academic old-school way. Ed & I feel that the time for that has passed. - Jed
