Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Just thought I would add that as I have been plotting my energetic entropic particle tracks that are creating cloud contrails and approaching sinkholes in the Earth it appears that most of these energetic particles orbit between 10,000 meters and 30,000 meters above our heads most of the time in jetstreams (which they create). They appear to follow cloud/water vapor trails, which makes them more energetic. In other words my research and theory predicts that airliners cruising at those altitudes will be subject to more energetic particle hits and the resulting radiation and possibly batteries catching fire. So, yes, I agree with Krivit since I believe beta decay and LENR is occurring at the surface of these particles. Stewart darkmattersalot.com On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: From this article, you can see why airplane manufacturers are so conservative, and reluctant to use new technology. Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-overcharging-batteries-eyed-boeing-mishaps.html#jCp - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
On every intercontinental flight there are hundreds of portable device
Lithium Ion batteries of passengers.
if it would be a structual effect every flight would be causing disasters,
wouldn't?
Op zondag 20 januari 2013 schreef ChemE Stewart (cheme...@gmail.com) het
volgende:
Just thought I would add that as I have been plotting my energetic
entropic particle tracks that are creating cloud contrails and approaching
sinkholes in the Earth it appears that most of these energetic particles
orbit between 10,000 meters and 30,000 meters above our heads most of the
time in jetstreams (which they create). They appear to follow cloud/water
vapor trails, which makes them more energetic. In other words my research
and theory predicts that airliners cruising at those altitudes will be
subject to more energetic particle hits and the resulting radiation and
possibly batteries catching fire. So, yes, I agree with Krivit since I
believe beta decay and LENR is occurring at the surface of these particles.
Stewart
darkmattersalot.com
On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Jed Rothwell
jedrothw...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'jedrothw...@gmail.com');
wrote:
From this article, you can see why airplane manufacturers are so
conservative, and reluctant to use new technology.
Read more at:
http://phys.org/news/2013-01-overcharging-batteries-eyed-boeing-mishaps.html#jCp
- Jed
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/14/AR2006081400881.html From 2006 The National Transportation Safety Board last month held a hearing about the safety of lithium batteries on airplanes after a fire occurred Feb. 7 on a cargo jet. The UPS plane, which was carrying lithium-ion batteries, among other items, caught fire in flight and landed safely in Philadelphia. Investigators have not announced the cause of the fire and have not made any safety recommendations about the transportation of such batteries. I think if the Dreamliner doesn't try to save fuel and stays away from that energetic particle beam/jetstream they will have longer life Something about them energetic entropic dark matter particles and Lithium, which probably explains the dirth of lithium in the universe. Best they switch to my new patent pending streaming particle engine... Godspeed Stewart darkmattersalot.com On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.comwrote: On every intercontinental flight there are hundreds of portable device Lithium Ion batteries of passengers. if it would be a structual effect every flight would be causing disasters, wouldn't? Op zondag 20 januari 2013 schreef ChemE Stewart (cheme...@gmail.com) het volgende: Just thought I would add that as I have been plotting my energetic entropic particle tracks that are creating cloud contrails and approaching sinkholes in the Earth it appears that most of these energetic particles orbit between 10,000 meters and 30,000 meters above our heads most of the time in jetstreams (which they create). They appear to follow cloud/water vapor trails, which makes them more energetic. In other words my research and theory predicts that airliners cruising at those altitudes will be subject to more energetic particle hits and the resulting radiation and possibly batteries catching fire. So, yes, I agree with Krivit since I believe beta decay and LENR is occurring at the surface of these particles. Stewart darkmattersalot.com On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: From this article, you can see why airplane manufacturers are so conservative, and reluctant to use new technology. Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-overcharging-batteries-eyed-boeing-mishaps.html#jCp - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
The risk vs rewards game is underway. NASA has most likely analyzed the risk vs rewards situation, and still allows very expensive satellites to be powered by lithium - as Ron says, so the risk must be very low - even with full exposure to cosmic rays. The percentage of lithium failures on commercial flights may be equally low, but there are enough actual failures to raise safety concerns. This is especially problematic since the risk of any lithium fire and its toxicity onboard an airplane at altitude is multiplied by the close confinement and the possibility that the flight crew will be harmed by the smoke. This is said to be the only incident reported in Australia, but due to stories like this: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2012-02-0 1/battery-fires-keeping-li-ion-caged . there appears to be a push to ban all lithium batteries, even in cell phones - or at least to require hot bags which may cost more than the phone. How long before a terrorist rigs his iPhone to catch fire? A satellite goes down and NASA is out say $50 million but a 747 goes down and United is out $500 million. From: Teslaalset On every intercontinental flight there are hundreds of portable device Lithium Ion batteries of passengers... if it would be a structual effect every flight would be causing disasters, wouldn't?
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. hoyt-stea...@cox.netwrote: Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. The possible link between lithium ion batteries, ionizing radiation at high altitudes and LENR is an interesting one. Here are some additional details: * At higher altitudes, there is an increase in ionizing radiation, including x-rays [1]. There is an effort underway to classify airline crews as radiation workers [2]. * Most batteries in handheld devices use lithium cobalt oxide (LCO), a kind of lithium battery that has known safety issues [3]. * The lithium ion batteries in the Dreamliners are also lithium cobalt oxide [4]. * There was an interesting LENR study done by Iraj Parchamazad that made use of cobalt [5], and I recall him mentioning in the video that he was seeing one of the highest energy densities seen in LENR experiments. Apparently the LCO batteries have high energy storage density but are prone to overheating. Rob Woudenberg pointed out that there are hundreds of devices that have lithium ion batteries (and probably LCO batteries) in flights every day, suggesting that if there were a structural defect we should be seeing more failures. But I wonder whether any effect would necessarily be pronounced. Perhaps if you did a study, you'd find that the batteries run at a higher average operating temperature at high altitudes, but not necessarily ones that goes above the specs of the batteries in most cases. Eric [1] http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q444.html [2] http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/for-frequent-fliers-a-radiation-risk-in-the-skies/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery [4] http://www.technologyreview.com/news/509981/grounded-boeing-787-dreamliners-use-batteries-prone-to-overheating/ [5] http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg71537.html
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
I assume that people have done detailed 'post mortem's of batteries that have overheated. Is there anything in the detail that would support (or otherwise) the LENR proposal? On 20/01/2013 18:53, Eric Walker wrote: On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. hoyt-stea...@cox.netwrote: Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. The possible link between lithium ion batteries, ionizing radiation at high altitudes and LENR is an interesting one. Here are some additional details: * At higher altitudes, there is an increase in ionizing radiation, including x-rays [1]. There is an effort underway to classify airline crews as radiation workers [2]. * Most batteries in handheld devices use lithium cobalt oxide (LCO), a kind of lithium battery that has known safety issues [3]. * The lithium ion batteries in the Dreamliners are also lithium cobalt oxide [4]. * There was an interesting LENR study done by Iraj Parchamazad that made use of cobalt [5], and I recall him mentioning in the video that he was seeing one of the highest energy densities seen in LENR experiments. Apparently the LCO batteries have high energy storage density but are prone to overheating. Rob Woudenberg pointed out that there are hundreds of devices that have lithium ion batteries (and probably LCO batteries) in flights every day, suggesting that if there were a structural defect we should be seeing more failures. But I wonder whether any effect would necessarily be pronounced. Perhaps if you did a study, you'd find that the batteries run at a higher average operating temperature at high altitudes, but not necessarily ones that goes above the specs of the batteries in most cases. Eric [1] http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q444.html [2] http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/for-frequent-fliers-a-radiation-risk-in-the-skies/ [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery [4] http://www.technologyreview.com/news/509981/grounded-boeing-787-dreamliners-use-batteries-prone-to-overheating/ [5] http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg71537.html
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Sent from my iPhone On Jan 20, 2013, at 11:02, Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk wrote: Is there anything in the detail that would support (or otherwise) the LENR proposal? Nothing clear that I can see. I would be interested in seeing the behavior of the batteries at high altitudes characterized. If there was a significant increase in average operating temperature, that would lend credence to a possible connection between average operating temperature and ionizing radiation. At that point it would be necessary to rule out known effects. But we would be one step closer to LENR theories that posit a relationship between certain types of ionizing radiation (e.g., x-rays) and anomalous heat. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Lithium batteries are being used in space without know issues on heating or other system issues. Best Regards, Ron Clark -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs? http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/01/17/are-nuclear-reactions-causing-boei ng-dreamliner-battery-fires/
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
http://phys.org/news/2013-01-overcharging-batteries-eyed-boeing-mishaps.html An investigator in Japan, where a 787 made an emergency landing earlier this week, said the charred insides of the plane's lithium ion battery show the battery received voltage in excess of its design limits. Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-overcharging-batteries-eyed-boeing-mishaps.html#jCp On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Ron Clark rn.cla...@gmail.com wrote: Lithium batteries are being used in space without know issues on heating or other system issues. Best Regards, Ron Clark -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 3:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs? http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/01/17/are-nuclear-reactions-causing-boei ng-dreamliner-battery-fires/http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/01/17/are-nuclear-reactions-causing-boeing-dreamliner-battery-fires/
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
From this article, you can see why airplane manufacturers are so conservative, and reluctant to use new technology. Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-overcharging-batteries-eyed-boeing-mishaps.html#jCp - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs? http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/01/17/are-nuclear-reactions-causing-boei ng-dreamliner-battery-fires/
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs? http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/01/17/are-nuclear-reactions-causing-boei ng-dreamliner-battery-fires/
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Possibly. Maybe too, virbration and/or thermal cycling play roles - even if the problem is eventually found to be purely chemical. -- Lou Pagnucco Hoyt Stearns wrote: Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 4:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs? http://news.newenergytimes.net/2013/01/17/are-nuclear-reactions-causing-boei ng-dreamliner-battery-fires/
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Excellent point, Hoyt. There is solid evidence that a small amount of radiation stimulates LERN by a factor of thousands of times more than its own energy content. This relates to quantum correlation fields. -Original Message- From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs?
RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Thanks. ...so if Boeing does all their battery testing on the ground, they'd miss it. Hoyt -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 5:08 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries Excellent point, Hoyt. There is solid evidence that a small amount of radiation stimulates LERN by a factor of thousands of times more than its own energy content. This relates to quantum correlation fields. -Original Message- From: Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene As far back as 2005, we were suggesting here on vortex that the high failure rate of Lithium batteries could have a LENR connection http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg09241.html -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com Are Nuclear Reactions Causing Boeing Dreamliner Battery Fires? Jan. 17, 2013 - By Steven B. Krivit Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners use high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have materials similar to those used in the most common type of low-energy nuclear reaction experiment. Boeing is considering LENRs for future aerospace applications. On June 22 and 23, 2011, Boeing representatives met with NASA and the Federal Aviation Authority to discuss such applications. Will they meet again to consider the possible relationship between the battery fires and LENRs?
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. hoyt-stea...@cox.net wrote: Maybe the higher radiation environment at high altitude facilitates LENR. If that were the case, I think they would have discovered it during flight tests. There are now 50 Dreamliners in service. I believe there were two used in testing before the airliners put them in service, so there were many hours of flight accumulated, albeit at a rate ~25 times lower than now. I think they would have discovered an anomaly that turns on at high altitudes. On the other hand, something is happening that did not occur during flight testing. My guess is that it is a manufacturing defect in some batteries but not others. The ones used in flight tests were okay, and most of the ones deployed now are okay, but some are defective. Manufacturing defects with batteries of this type have caused fires in laptop computers. Stray scraps of metal left in the batteries, according to press reports. The Dreamliner is also having problems with a valve in the wings leaking fuel. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Interesting speculative theory from Krivit on Boeing batteries
Was that really a serious amount of testing before deployment? - especially for an effect that is so transient (and disbelieved)? After all, Krivit asserts that all the elements for LENR events are there. Is he wrong? If so, how? Jed Rothwell wrote: If that were the case, I think they would have discovered it during flight tests.
