Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Jed Rothwell wrote: Terry Blanton wrote: Considering that the mass release of hydrinos into the environment is totally unknown, it's my bet that you will see hot fusion before you see a hydrino powered generator go online. I do not think this will be a problem. Most scientists claim that hydrinos do not exist. Therefore they cannot be released into the environment. So there can be no environmental issue. A similar situation arose in the early days of cold fusion. Melvin Miles observed excess heat and began looking for tritium. The safety officer at China Lake became concerned and want to close down the experiment because it might be dangerous. Miles and showed him papers editorials from Nature and elsewhere claiming that cold fusion does not exist and convinced him that since it does not exist it cannot be a safety threat. This is the only incident I am aware of in which the opponents of cold fusion were helpful and served a useful purpose, albeit inadvertently. Alice in Bureaucratland --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Could we get a clarification on a particular matter: From Mike Carrell: ... BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. and ... These cooperatives are entrepreneural and make thier own rules to a large extent. They buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. A first-generation BLP power unit of any significant capacity can be hooked into the local system at low risk and a decrease in the outside power bought. I infer from Mike's comment that these obscure rural cooperatives will attempt to construct their own modest power generating prototype, presumably for analysis and POC, initially. Do these rural cooperatives possess sufficient experience in building their own power generators? The reason I ask this is due to the fact that Mike also states these cooperatives ...buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. That suggests to me that these companies are more in the business of purchasing packaging power generated from other companies as compared to generating their own power. Did I misunderstand the capabilities of these rural cooperatives? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Lots of REA's own operate their own power plants. For example our local provider: http://www.prpa.com/ Ron --On Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:52 AM -0600 OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Could we get a clarification on a particular matter: From Mike Carrell: ... BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. and ... These cooperatives are entrepreneural and make thier own rules to a large extent. They buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. A first-generation BLP power unit of any significant capacity can be hooked into the local system at low risk and a decrease in the outside power bought. I infer from Mike's comment that these obscure rural cooperatives will attempt to construct their own modest power generating prototype, presumably for analysis and POC, initially. Do these rural cooperatives possess sufficient experience in building their own power generators? The reason I ask this is due to the fact that Mike also states these cooperatives ...buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. That suggests to me that these companies are more in the business of purchasing packaging power generated from other companies as compared to generating their own power. Did I misunderstand the capabilities of these rural cooperatives? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:18 PM, Mike Carrell wrote: - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license On Jan 7, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Mike Carrell wrote: BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. What does this mean? I got the impression BLP is to supply fuel material for the involved utilities to be heated in their boiler systems to supply auxiliary heat. Is this incorrect? -- Horace, yes this is incorrect. Go to www.Blacklightpower.com, start with the first page, and do some homework. I can understand from reading only the surface, one can misunderstand what is going on. [snip interesting info (Thanks!)] Yes, indeed, it is very difficult to understand what is going on with these commercial licenses. I think I got sidetracked by the recent patent. It does appear I'm not the only person in the dark on these commercial licenses. Here is an example of a reporter who didn't get very far: http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2008/12/18/ impossible-blacklight-gets-the-first-customer/ http://tinyurl.com/887xw9 Some info provided above on the mysterious Estacado Energy Services: http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/cgi-bin/prcdtl.cgi?2542215+ESTACADO +ENERGY+SERVICES+INC http://tinyurl.com/8zrq5s Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Will they be allowed to build them is a better question. They will first have to do an environmental assessment and likely an environmental impact study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_assessment Considering that the mass release of hydrinos into the environment is totally unknown, it's my bet that you will see hot fusion before you see a hydrino powered generator go online. Terry On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Could we get a clarification on a particular matter: From Mike Carrell: ... BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. and ... These cooperatives are entrepreneural and make thier own rules to a large extent. They buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. A first-generation BLP power unit of any significant capacity can be hooked into the local system at low risk and a decrease in the outside power bought. I infer from Mike's comment that these obscure rural cooperatives will attempt to construct their own modest power generating prototype, presumably for analysis and POC, initially. Do these rural cooperatives possess sufficient experience in building their own power generators? The reason I ask this is due to the fact that Mike also states these cooperatives ...buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. That suggests to me that these companies are more in the business of purchasing packaging power generated from other companies as compared to generating their own power. Did I misunderstand the capabilities of these rural cooperatives? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Terry Blanton wrote: Considering that the mass release of hydrinos into the environment is totally unknown, it's my bet that you will see hot fusion before you see a hydrino powered generator go online. I do not think this will be a problem. Most scientists claim that hydrinos do not exist. Therefore they cannot be released into the environment. So there can be no environmental issue. A similar situation arose in the early days of cold fusion. Melvin Miles observed excess heat and began looking for tritium. The safety officer at China Lake became concerned and want to close down the experiment because it might be dangerous. Miles and showed him papers editorials from Nature and elsewhere claiming that cold fusion does not exist and convinced him that since it does not exist it cannot be a safety threat. This is the only incident I am aware of in which the opponents of cold fusion were helpful and served a useful purpose, albeit inadvertently. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Terry Considering that the mass release of hydrinos into the environment is totally unknown, it's my bet that you will see hot fusion before you see a hydrino powered generator go online. If they exist at all, and if they can exist as extended-lifetime particles, they will be extraordinarily valuable and would be collected at all cost- never released. Mills could probably give the power away *free* and make a tidy profit on any deeply redundant hydrinos he produces. If you want today's informed and evolving opinion from an objective observer: (or even if you don't ;-) here is a point-of-veiw that is probably not shared by anyone else, on either side of the aisle (which means to the contrarian, that it probably has some elements of truth which nobody wants to hear): This is the scenario IMHO which best fits all the facts available: 1) Hydrinos are real, can be produced in numerous different ways, are common in cosmology, the solar corona, and are a major component of earth's core and a lesser component of earth's oceans, where they will eventually be harvested... but in all of the above cases, these particles are deeply redundant. 2) On earth, they require extraordinary conditions to produce with the kind of catalysis method which Mills believes-in (i.e. via high vacuum and energy holes), 3) Mills theory is incorrect in many places 4) Hydrinos are short-lived at the first two or three levels of redundancy. 5) Deeply redundant hydrinos are approximately identical to the Dufour/Vigier hydrex concept of virtual neutrons. 6) In the case of deuterons, that atom can 'shrink' only one or two levels but cannot proceed to deep redundancy; instead at some early stage - the inherent nuclear instability caused by the close electron insures that the neutron of the deuteron will be easily shed- and this is the basis for the Oppenheimer-Phillips effect. There you have it ... (until tomorrow ;-) Jones
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Jones Beene wrote: 4) Hydrinos are short-lived at the first two or three levels of redundancy. How do they decay? Of course, it's an endothermic reaction to reflate them; that's clear enough. But where does the energy come from? I would have thought they'd be quite stable, since they can't just spit out a gamma or something in order to decay. It seem like a hydrino is kind of stuck -- it needs to hold out its little begging bowl and wait until someone comes along and drops enough energy into it to get it back on the board.
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote: Terry Considering that the mass release of hydrinos into the environment is totally unknown, it's my bet that you will see hot fusion before you see a hydrino powered generator go online. If they exist at all, and if they can exist as extended-lifetime particles, they will be extraordinarily valuable and would be collected at all cost- never released. Mills could probably give the power away *free* and make a tidy profit on any deeply redundant hydrinos he produces. I take it by redundant you mean in a fractional orbital state, i.e. a reduced orbital size state. Hydrogen in a highly reduced size orbital state would be very difficult to collect because it would either diffuse through any container, or possibly react with the nuclei if the orbital size is sufficiently reduced. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
The world is full of contrarians and fear mongers. They will be used by the fossil fuel industries to slow the progress of any replacement source. Terry On 1/8/09, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Terry Blanton wrote: Considering that the mass release of hydrinos into the environment is totally unknown, it's my bet that you will see hot fusion before you see a hydrino powered generator go online. I do not think this will be a problem. Most scientists claim that hydrinos do not exist. Therefore they cannot be released into the environment. So there can be no environmental issue. A similar situation arose in the early days of cold fusion. Melvin Miles observed excess heat and began looking for tritium. The safety officer at China Lake became concerned and want to close down the experiment because it might be dangerous. Miles and showed him papers editorials from Nature and elsewhere claiming that cold fusion does not exist and convinced him that since it does not exist it cannot be a safety threat. This is the only incident I am aware of in which the opponents of cold fusion were helpful and served a useful purpose, albeit inadvertently. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Jones Beene wrote: 4) Hydrinos are short-lived at the first two or three levels of redundancy. How do they decay? Of course, it's an endothermic reaction to reflate them; that's clear enough. But where does the energy come from? Orbital instability. The shrunken fractional orbits are forbidden by Heisenberg - unless a form of electron waveform self-overlap can exist, as Robin has suggested, that permits shrinking the volume in which the electron exists. However, if this self-overlapping wave form is unstable, it could unwind and the orbital expansion would be fueled by the zero point field. I would have thought they'd be quite stable, since they can't just spit out a gamma or something in order to decay. It seem like a hydrino is kind of stuck -- it needs to hold out its little begging bowl and wait until someone comes along and drops enough energy into it to get it back on the board. If sub-ground states have half-lives then the source of free energy by repeating the shrinking process is the zero point field. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Terry Blanton wrote: The world is full of contrarians and fear mongers. They will be used by the fossil fuel industries to slow the progress of any replacement source. No doubt this is true. I discussed this in my book. However, in the case of the first generators made by BLP, the contrarian corps will be in a pickle, because most of them are scientists who adamantly assert that the Mills effect cannot possibly exist. What can they say if the gadget starts producing electricity? I was wrong. Hydrinos are real. They might be dangerous. I cannot imagine any academic skeptic or someone such as Zimmerman saying this. They could not bring themselves to say it! They would wave their hands and say that there must be a secret source of natural gas or some other conventional explanation. This stalemate would go on for months or years, long enough to prove that the gadget is safe. Or, alternatively, if hydrinos are not safe, it would go on until people start collapsing and dying, at which point everyone would believe hydrinos are real. People usually find out things are dangerous by accidentally hurting someone. This is true even today, despite our overprotective society. This is a gruesome story, but when x-rays were first discovered they were soon used in medical diagnosis. People did not know they cause harm, and one patient with an elusive problem was subjected to massive amounts of x-rays which killed him, as I recall. The same thing happened with radium. Mme. Curie killed herself with the stuff. To take a more modern and subtle example, due to modern overprotective hysteria, at many schools children are no longer allowed to play rough games and all forms of teasing are prohibited. Anyone familiar with primate behavior knows that teasing is inherent, and absolutely essential to normal social development and behavior. It is seen in most mammals, and developed to a high art by primates. Games, of course, are essential to the development of all intelligent species. By eliminating these things we will raise a generation of stunted, unhealthy children who have no idea how to interact with one another and who are incapable of simple acts such as walking on uneven surfaces, or cutting watermelons. These latter examples are actual observations of mine. I have seen urban children in Atlanta who could not walk across stones, mud and rocks on the shore of a creek, and a 12-year old girl who had never used a carving knife and had no idea how to slice a melon. She would have cut herself if I had not taken it away from her. Here is a good article about teasing: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/magazine/07teasing-t.html - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
If you are a newcormer to the BLP world, it is easy to misread the signs and get confused, when the story is actually straightforward if you use the tacit assumption that Mills is smart and knows what he is doing. First realize thst BLP is well and privately financed and does not owe explanations to anybody. Next realize that Mills' work is extensively published in detail -- which gives ample target practice for critics. Then note that Mills has pledged to announce significant events as they happen [after patent applications are in place]. Mills has a small staff and lots to do, and he doesn't need to waste time with the idly curious and prove it critics. A little checking reveals that Estacado is a shell, protected by an NDA so that work can proceed quietly, without distrataction, even regulation and snooping. It is reasonable to expect a series of systems to be built at BLP and shipped to Estacado and operated to prove reliability and measure consumables and estimate savings. All this is necessary background for the main act, which is significant commercial deployment beginning X or XX years hence. I speculate, but a reasonable plan would be for an up front good faith payment for the attention and support of BLP staff. There could be partial payments for power units of intermediate capacity, with royalties for the energy produced, and options to buy more powerful units as they arfe available. Mike Carrell.
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
- Original Message From: Horace Heffner If sub-ground states have half-lives then the source of free energy by repeating the shrinking process is the zero point field. Yes. I meant to add that as number 7 ;-) ... followed closely by 8) In order to continue in a robust way, real LENR reactions will be required. in order to pay the piper in the sense that ZPE probably has a built-in stabilizing or balancing mechanism - and in the sense of QM time reversal. 9) These secondary nuclear reactions, if they exist, will be previously undescribed in the literature, and generally show little indicia of nuclear origin - such as radioactivity. 10) An example of this kind of reaction, in Mills' case, will be the conversion of sodium to magnesium. 11) This reaction Na + Hy -- Mg may happen routinely in nature. Let's see... hmm ... if I can get it up to a 12-step program, perhaps you can have me committed to some kind of detox center ... Jones
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On 1/8/09, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Let's see... hmm ... if I can get it up to a 12-step program, perhaps you can have me committed to some kind of detox center ... Yeah, recovering from hydrino poisoning. :-) Terry
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
- Original Message From: Terry Blanton Let's see... hmm ... if I can get it up to a 12-step program, perhaps you can have me committed to some kind of detox center ... Yeah, recovering from hydrino poisoning. :-) Yikes! Does that cause the dreaded shrinkage? (George Costanza variety ;-)
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
No, that comes with age. Terry (understanding) On 1/8/09, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: - Original Message From: Terry Blanton Let's see... hmm ... if I can get it up to a 12-step program, perhaps you can have me committed to some kind of detox center ... Yeah, recovering from hydrino poisoning. :-) Yikes! Does that cause the dreaded shrinkage? (George Costanza variety ;-)
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
From: Terry Blanton Let's see... hmm ... if I can get it up to a 12-step program, perhaps you can have me committed to some kind of detox center ... Yeah, recovering from hydrino poisoning. :-) Yikes! Does that cause the dreaded shrinkage? if it costs less than Palmetto, what the hey! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
With all this licensing activity going on I thought it might be a good time to offer up an unscientific and informal query among the Vort membership on what people think BLP's chances are of pulling the rabbit out of the hat. I offer up two questions. QUESTION A: What do you think of the claim that BLP Rowan University has accurately measured excess heat from the alleged BLP process? ...or do you think everyone involved has made a mistake in measurements – which will eventually come out in the laundry. My Response: I think there's a 70% - 80% chance that BLP Rowan U. got the heat measurement right. QUESTION B: What do you think of the possibility that even though BLP and Rowan University has accurately measured excess heat, the recycling process, including consumables, like nickel, may turn out to be so energy intensive and/or expensive that for all practical purposes generating electricity cannot be economically produced for at least another 30 – 40 years, which by that time some other AE technology may surpass it. In the meantime, Mills, gets a Nobel prize for his audacious discovery 20 years from now. ;-) My Response: I sit firmly on the fence on this one. I give BLP a 50% - 50% chance of succeeding. Feel free to shoot holes through my unscientific response. Nothing would please me more than to have my pessimism proven unfounded. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
From Stephen A. Lawrence It's on the BLP web site and it's hitting Google News, so I would imagine it will be popping up everywhere soon. http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlackLightProcessFarmersPressReleaseFINAL010609.html http://tinyurl.com/6vxgl6 At first glance the 2nd company seems just as obscure as the first one. I'm curious if anyone's seen anything indicating how much these licenses cost. That information would probably be proprietary, but if not it would interesting to know. Of course, P. Zimmerman has weighed in over at http://forum.hydrino.org with the following predictably negative comments: *** Not only cannot either Estacado (whatever it actually is) or Farmers' make use of this license; we actually do not know whether they have paid BlackLight for the license or whether they got the license free from BLP as part of the program to make it appear that Mills is on the verge of commercial breakthroughs. BlackLight may simply get a royalty on KWH generated, if and when in the sweet bye and bye. But in the financially pressed present, they get to send out press releases. *** I hope we can get some clarification on the matter in the near future. Mr. Carrell, have you heard anything that might shed more light on the matter? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On Jan 7, 2009, at 4:42 AM, OrionWorks wrote: Of course, P. Zimmerman has weighed in over at http://forum.hydrino.org with the following predictably negative comments: *** Not only cannot either Estacado (whatever it actually is) or Farmers' make use of this license; we actually do not know whether they have paid BlackLight for the license or whether they got the license free from BLP as part of the program to make it appear that Mills is on the verge of commercial breakthroughs. BlackLight may simply get a royalty on KWH generated, if and when in the sweet bye and bye. But in the financially pressed present, they get to send out press releases. *** I don't see why anyone would expect the contracts to be mainly for other than experimentation or product evaluation, from BLP's perspective. That would be a useful deal for BLP, to have someone willing to risk their boiler fire boxes to materials with not fully established long term properties sealed in metal tubes. If BLP is actually running such tests then that is a pretty good sign of progress. If the agreements are only in anticipation of the possibility of the need to run such tests, maybe not such a great sign. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
OrionWorks wrote: Of course, P. Zimmerman has weighed in over at http://forum.hydrino.org with the following predictably negative comments: *** Not only cannot either Estacado (whatever it actually is) or Farmers' make use of this license; we actually do not know whether they have paid BlackLight for the license . . . Zimmerman is amazing. He is out on a limb, vigorously sawing it behind him. He doesn't know when to shut up! Or at least, when to hedge his bet. I am no friend of BLP but I would never raise groundless doubts about their business transactions! Yes, it is possible they are doing something underhanded. In the modern era we have learned it is possible to steal $50 billion in a Ponzi scheme. But if you have no evidence that someone is cheating you should never allege that they are. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Jed sez: Zimmerman is amazing. He is out on a limb, vigorously sawing it behind him. He doesn't know when to shut up! Or at least, when to hedge his bet. I am no friend of BLP but I would never raise groundless doubts about their business transactions! Yes, it is possible they are doing something underhanded. In the modern era we have learned it is possible to steal $50 billion in a Ponzi scheme. But if you have no evidence that someone is cheating you should never allege that they are. - Jed It's been my experience that Dr. Zimmerman is more than capable of hedging his bets when he feels he may be on thin ice. However, in this case he does give me the impression that he feels his opinion stands on firm ground. After all he has argued at length mathematically against the existence of hydrinos for years. Therefore, his educated opinion on the non-existence of this atomic species HAS to be right. ZEN comment: Opinions are only as good as how well they serve us. Problems can crop up when we end up serving the opinion rather than the other way around. Sooner or later it will demand a sacrifice in order to defend its honor. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
The two licenses are with rural cooperatives. On the surface this is odd and unimperessive. However, it has several advantages for BLP at the present stage. BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. They don't need to grapple with the regulatory context of a public utility. These cooperatives are entrepreneural and make thier own rules to a large extent. They buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. A first-generation BLP power unit of any significant capacity can be hooked into the local system at low risk and a decrease in the outside power bought. For BLP this brings invauable operating experience, including realistic measure of consumeables and reliability. It also aswers critics by demonstrating a real system operating 24/7. The cooperatives are essentially private, reporting to their members and not to the public or stockholders. Mike Carrell
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
Excellent point, Mike, especially if this is leading directly to generation of electrical power for sale, and is not some kind of strategic ploy. But what is the New Mexico connection? i.e. are they simply enchanted with the alien technology... Please, Terry, do not mention Roswell ;-) Jones BTW - Roswell is apparently served by the Central New Mexico Electric Cooperative From: Mike Carrell mi...@medleas.com The two licenses are with rural cooperatives. On the surface this is odd and unimperessive. However, it has several advantages for BLP at the present stage. BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. They don't need to grapple with the regulatory context of a public utility. These cooperatives are entrepreneural and make thier own rules to a large extent. They buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. A first-generation BLP power unit of any significant capacity can be hooked into the local system at low risk and a decrease in the outside power bought. For BLP this brings invauable operating experience, including realistic measure of consumeables and reliability. It also aswers critics by demonstrating a real system operating 24/7. The cooperatives are essentially private, reporting to their members and not to the public or stockholders. Mike Carrell
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
From Jones: Excellent point, Mike, especially if this is leading directly to generation of electrical power for sale, and is not some kind of strategic ploy. From: Mike Carrell: The two licenses are with rural cooperatives. On the surface this is odd and unimperessive. However, it has several advantages for BLP at the present stage. BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. They don't need to grapple with the regulatory context of a public utility. These cooperatives are entrepreneural and make thier own rules to a large extent. They buy power from established utilities and distribute it to members of the cooperative. A first-generation BLP power unit of any significant capacity can be hooked into the local system at low risk and a decrease in the outside power bought. For BLP this brings invauable operating experience, including realistic measure of consumeables and reliability. It also aswers critics by demonstrating a real system operating 24/7. The cooperatives are essentially private, reporting to their members and not to the public or stockholders. Mike Carrell My hunch would also side more on Mr. Carrell's side rather than Dr. Zimmerman's opinion. Mike's prior RD experience in tech industries (RCA) is helpful in discerning why BLP may have indeed taken this seemingly obscure development path. In the meantime however I would expect that the skeptics will enjoy picking away at BLP's latest actions, perhaps even calling it their final swan song. (Not likely, IMO.) Granted, both POVs are equally valid, even believable, IMO. Nevertheless, it would not surprise me if the regulatory issues alone could sink BLP, preventing them from acquiring the necessary evidence to convince a skeptical utility industry. Going through the back door makes sense. I feel like bringing back Horace's recent comment: ... That would be a useful deal for BLP, to have someone willing to risk their boiler fire boxes to materials with not fully established long term properties sealed in metal tubes. If BLP is actually running such tests then that is a pretty good sign of progress. If the agreements are only in anticipation of the possibility of the need to run such tests, maybe not such a great sign. I wonder if there might be a way to discern if BLP has indeed progressed to the point that their process has been sealed in metal tubes. My suspicion is that they may be close to doing something like that. Would it be truly recyclable? Mike, would you know? What can you divulge? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On Jan 7, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Mike Carrell wrote: BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. What does this mean? I got the impression BLP is to supply fuel material for the involved utilities to be heated in their boiler systems to supply auxiliary heat. Is this incorrect? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
- Original Message - From: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license On Jan 7, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Mike Carrell wrote: BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. What does this mean? I got the impression BLP is to supply fuel material for the involved utilities to be heated in their boiler systems to supply auxiliary heat. Is this incorrect? -- Horace, yes this is incorrect. Go to www.Blacklightpower.com, start with the first page, and do some homework. I can understand from reading only the surface, one can misunderstand what is going on. The chemical cycle is somewhat involved, but the key point is the production of NaH elevated to a critical temperature, at which Na doubly ionizes and catalyzes the proximate H atom to shrink to the H[1/3] state with a further catalysis to the H[1/4] state. The original ingredients, H, R-Ni, and NaOH, can be regenerated and reused so the net comsumable is only H and the end product is H[1/4] with lots of energy. The energy release is great enough that a power unit getting hydrogn by electrolysis of available water and producing useful excess electricity and/or hydrogen gas, is possible. The current devices illustrated on the web page, whose performance is vaidarted by independent measurents at Rowan University, is a clumsy proof of principle. Versions more suitable for a power plant are anticipated. BLP's posture is a license laboratory, not a supplier of a magic mix. The buisness targets include retrofitting of existing boilers, self-standing hydrogen generators for automobiles at service stations, and a new chemistry which may include a hyper-battery. Mike Carrell
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
On Jan 7, 2009, at 5:18 PM, Mike Carrell wrote: - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license On Jan 7, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Mike Carrell wrote: BLP would like to have water-fueld power units on line in a commercial setting in the near future. What does this mean? I got the impression BLP is to supply fuel material for the involved utilities to be heated in their boiler systems to supply auxiliary heat. Is this incorrect? -- Horace, yes this is incorrect. What then are BLP's deliverables for these contracts? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
In reply to OrionWorks's message of Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:34:44 -0600: Hi, [snip] It's on the BLP web site and it's hitting Google News, so I would imagine it will be popping up everywhere soon. http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlackLightProcessFarmersPressReleaseFINAL010609.html http://tinyurl.com/6vxgl6 At first glance the 2nd company seems just as obscure as the first one. Hope it gets better. ...both just small licenses. Testing the waters IMO. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:BLP announces 2nd Commercial license
OrionWorks wrote: It's on the BLP web site and it's hitting Google News, so I would imagine it will be popping up everywhere soon. http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BlackLightProcessFarmersPressReleaseFINAL010609.html http://tinyurl.com/6vxgl6 At first glance the 2nd company seems just as obscure as the first one. I'm curious if anyone's seen anything indicating how much these licenses cost. That information would probably be proprietary, but if not it would interesting to know.
