Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Frank-- I am somewhat confused by this comment: >>> I am speaking about the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force the >>> spin orbit force. It is NOT electromagnetic, It does not attract metal. It >>> flips nucleons. I only used the electromagnetic force in an analogy to show >>> that the magnetic field conserves momentum in a system where changes in the >>> original force field propagate at light speed. It takes time for the system >>> to settle. <<<< How do you perceive that the coupling occurs between a magnetic field and a nucleus during operation of nuclear magnetic resonant machines used for medical imaging? Bob - Original Message - From: fznidar...@aol.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier The hot fusion people know that the spin orbit force is there. They consider it to be like the electromagnetic moment of the electron. Not of much use as its range is too short. They to not consider that the nuclear spin orbit force is not conserved and it can increase in range and strength under certain conditions. They do not consider that it can be expelled from a condensate. These are big omissions and the reason that they cannot understand cold fusion. They are working with the wrong force. Frank Z -Original Message- From: fznidarsic To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier No! I did not say this. I am speaking about the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force the spin orbit force. It is NOT electromagnetic, It does not attract metal. It flips nucleons. I only used the electromagnetic force in an analogy to show that the magnetic field conserves momentum in a system where changes in the original force field propagate at light speed. It takes time for the system to settle. During that time the magnetic field conserves the momentum of the system. The magnetic field emerges as needed from nowhere. It goes away once its job is done. The gravitomagnetic, nuclear spin orbit force, and electromagnetic forces all operate in the manor. Frank As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave- The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and coupling for release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent system? The coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger system (more particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE to thermal energy. I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be involved in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to the NAE structure. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Bob, I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek. Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too small to accurately measure. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
The barrier is still there. Its like a rabbit trying to get over you garden fence. The barrier stops it. You just step over it because the length of your step exceeds that of the barrier. Over you go, no thump. The ONLY way the Coulomb barrier can be crossed without emitting radiation,the thump, is where we have a force with a longer range than the Coulombic. The expelled spin orbit force does the trick. Sent from my iPad
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
This area of coulomb screening begs the question about how and why screening happens. I say that the magnetic field affects the vacuum, what happens to the vacuum depends on how strong the magnetic field is. At its maximum intensity, an intense magnetic field will break the vacuum down and subatomic particles will be formed out of the vacuum breakdown. As you know, pions (*P **mesons )*keep the nucleus together by converting protons and neutrons in a cycle through a color change process. If a magnetic field produces pions out of the vacuum, the color processes mediated by the strong force in the nucleus will be disrupted. Here is a reference that explains how mesons formation out of the vacuum happens. *The **P **and **A **mesons in strong abelian magnetic field in SU(2) lattice gauge theory.* http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.5699.pdf On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 3:59 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Bob > > Now I understand what you mean by a coherent system in this case. I tend > to think of coherent systems in a different manner but can accept your > definition. > > We seem to be in agreement that a large guiding magnetic field enables the > long range coupling between NAE. I am still seeking how the actual > mechanism operates at the initial state and how it grows from that level > into the very large field that we suspect. Could it be the changing nature > of the field that leads to LENR activity? At least in that situation an > electric field is generated that can add energy to charged particles. This > is pure speculation seeking evidence. > > Dave > -Original Message- > From: Bob Cook > To: vortex-l > Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier > > Dave- > > The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release > that work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and > coupling for release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent > system? The coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger > system (more particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE > to thermal energy. > > I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be > involved in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to > the NAE structure. > > Bob > > - Original Message ----- > *From:* David Roberson > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier > > Bob, > > I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic > field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results > in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this > interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic > field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I > am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a > concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field > and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component > might be the one I seek. > > Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the > Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be > borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to > reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, > that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most > of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The > net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. > > One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a > threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established > very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very > difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get > individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total > energy is too small to accurately measure. > > Dave > -Original Message- > From: Bob Cook > To: vortex-l > Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier > > Dave-- > > Is your concept of coherence changing? Frank is providing a > cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. > > Thanks Frank. > > Bob > > - Original Message - > *From:* David Roberson > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier > > I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a > charged particle. It can redirect the veloci
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
The hot fusion people know that the spin orbit force is there. They consider it to be like the electromagnetic moment of the electron. Not of much use as its range is too short. They to not consider that the nuclear spin orbit force is not conserved and it can increase in range and strength under certain conditions. They do not consider that it can be expelled from a condensate. These are big omissions and the reason that they cannot understand cold fusion. They are working with the wrong force. Frank Z -Original Message- From: fznidarsic To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier No! I did not say this. I am speaking about the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force the spin orbit force. It is NOT electromagnetic, It does not attract metal. It flips nucleons. I only used the electromagnetic force in an analogy to show that the magnetic field conserves momentum in a system where changes in the original force field propagate at light speed. It takes time for the system to settle. During that time the magnetic field conserves the momentum of the system. The magnetic field emerges as needed from nowhere. It goes away once its job is done. The gravitomagnetic, nuclear spin orbit force, and electromagnetic forces all operate in the manor. Frank As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave- The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and coupling for release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent system? The coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger system (more particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE to thermal energy. I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be involved in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to the NAE structure. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Bob, I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek. Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too small to accurately measure. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave-- Is your concept of coherence changing?Frank is providing a cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. Thanks Frank. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Dave-- In the paramagnet materials like Ni and Pd an external magnetic field induces a much larger "B" field in the material. It is also aligned in one direction. An oscillating external magnetic field would change the B field in some way, increasing and decreasing it or reversing its direction. This B field would also add or subtract to any "local" NAE magnetic fields thereby influencing the coupling in the NAE system and potentially adding energy to the local system, enough to induce a change in mass and a reduction of the potential energy of the system. I know it is possible to excite nuclei with a magnetic moment using changing magnetic fields in resonance with the spin orbital resonances of the nuclei. Magnetic and electric quadrupole moments of the nuclei are also sensitive to absorbing energy and creating an excited nucleus. The magnitude of the B field can change the resonant frequency and the energy quanta that are absorbed and re-emitted by the nucleus. This phenomena is the basis for nuclear magnetic resonance imaging machines MRI's. Mizuno's quadrupole apparatus reported by Jed from the MIT conference may have been utilized to manipulate the B fields as suggested above. Maybe someone could answer this question? Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Bob Now I understand what you mean by a coherent system in this case. I tend to think of coherent systems in a different manner but can accept your definition. We seem to be in agreement that a large guiding magnetic field enables the long range coupling between NAE. I am still seeking how the actual mechanism operates at the initial state and how it grows from that level into the very large field that we suspect. Could it be the changing nature of the field that leads to LENR activity? At least in that situation an electric field is generated that can add energy to charged particles. This is pure speculation seeking evidence. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave- The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and coupling for release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent system? The coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger system (more particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE to thermal energy. I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be involved in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to the NAE structure. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Bob, I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek. Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too small to accurately measure. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave-- Is your concept of coherence changing? Frank is providing a cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. Thanks Frank. Bob - Original Message -
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Bob Now I understand what you mean by a coherent system in this case. I tend to think of coherent systems in a different manner but can accept your definition. We seem to be in agreement that a large guiding magnetic field enables the long range coupling between NAE. I am still seeking how the actual mechanism operates at the initial state and how it grows from that level into the very large field that we suspect. Could it be the changing nature of the field that leads to LENR activity? At least in that situation an electric field is generated that can add energy to charged particles. This is pure speculation seeking evidence. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave- The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and coupling for release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent system? The coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger system (more particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE to thermal energy. I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be involved in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to the NAE structure. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Bob, I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek. Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too small to accurately measure. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave-- Is your concept of coherence changing?Frank is providing a cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. Thanks Frank. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the electric force. But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both the field and the LENR activity. Both can then grow until some limiting factor arises. IIRC DGT does suggest that the external magnetic field changes with time as their reaction varies. The question that arises is whether or
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
No! I did not say this. I am speaking about the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force the spin orbit force. It is NOT electromagnetic, It does not attract metal. It flips nucleons. I only used the electromagnetic force in an analogy to show that the magnetic field conserves momentum in a system where changes in the original force field propagate at light speed. It takes time for the system to settle. During that time the magnetic field conserves the momentum of the system. The magnetic field emerges as needed from nowhere. It goes away once its job is done. The gravitomagnetic, nuclear spin orbit force, and electromagnetic forces all operate in the manor. Frank As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave- The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and coupling for release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent system? The coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger system (more particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE to thermal energy. I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be involved in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to the NAE structure. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Bob, I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek. Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too small to accurately measure. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave-- Is your concept of coherence changing?Frank is providing a cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. Thanks Frank. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the electric force. But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both the field and the LENR
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Dave-
The note from Frank: "The net effect is a growing field and energy release that
work together." The growing field involves a larger volume and coupling for
release of small packets of energy. Is this not a coherent system? The
coherency occurs as a characteristic of a bigger and bigger system (more
particles) as required to convert the mass change at the NAE to thermal energy.
I have indicated that spin coupling among electrons and nuclei may be involved
in the distribution of small packets of energy without damage to the NAE
structure.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Bob,
I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic
field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in
positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction
occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not
be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the
concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for
the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes
with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek.
Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the
Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed
from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net
barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed
energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released
energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a
growing field and energy release that work together.
One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a
threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very
little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very
difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual
sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too
small to accurately measure.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Bob Cook
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Dave--
Is your concept of coherence changing? Frank is providing a cause for
expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind.
Thanks Frank.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged
particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not
directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that
is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field.
The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the
electric force.
But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude
or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The
enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time
to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is
imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an
opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This
coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both
the field and the LENR activity. Both can then grow until some limiting factor
arises.
IIRC DGT does suggest that the external magnetic field changes with time as
their reaction varies. The question that arises is whether or not that rate of
change would be able to generate a sufficient electric component. I find it
interesting that nickel has a strong magnetic interaction that may well
contribute to the rapid field changes. And, of course, the threshold in LENR
occurring around the curie temperature of nickel must has some significance.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: fznidarsic
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static
force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The
static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range.
The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit
force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold
fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to
the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagneti
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Imagine this. What if the magnetic component of the electromagnetic field was ignored. We would VanderGraphs, Winhurst motors, and fur rupped rods emitting jumping sparks. We would not have employed the very strong magnetic force. No generators, motors, electromagnets, or speakers would exist. The electrified world of today would not be. Electricity would only be a curiosity. A coil with twice the turns has 4 times the magnetic effect. Where does the extra magnetic field come from? It comes from nowhere. The magnetic field is not conserved. It comes and goes as need to conserve momentum of the system when the original static field cannot. This strength of the non-conserved magnetic field made modem life possible. This is so well known that it is not even mentioned. The range of the electrical magnetic field can exceed that of the Coulombic. Superconductors entirely confine the Coulombic field yet a magnetic field extends beyond the bounds of the superconductor. All of the force fields conserve momentum in the same with, with an induced magnetic field. All of the magnetic components are not conserved. It is theoretically possible to dramatically increase them. All of them. No one to date has known how to increase the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. This magnetic component is NOT electromagnetic. Cold fusion has shown the way. Vibrate a proton conductor at a dimensional frequency of one megahertz-meter. The non-conserved spin orbit force increases dramatically. Amazingly the process has gravitomagnetic effects too. We are on the verge of harnessing all of the natural forces. Why is it taking so long? Frank Z -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:52 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Frank-- You noted: >>>The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit >>>force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people.<<< Why is it ignored? Bob - Original Message - From: fznidar...@aol.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Thats a common mistake.We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur.Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead.There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Axil--
This is a great find--It appears there is not institution involved in this the
United States!
It must be nonsense if the Hot Fusion folks do not consider itSMILE.
Everyone interested in LENR effects should read it. It is not too complicated.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: Axil Axil
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.1593.pdf
Experimental study of the two-body spin-orbit force
This field is on the cutting edge of research.
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Bob Cook wrote:
Frank--
You noted:
>>>The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin
orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people.<<<
Why is it ignored?
Bob
- Original Message -
From: fznidar...@aol.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The
static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem.
The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range.
The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin
orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid
cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to
10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am
speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The
constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate
that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters."
Frank Z
The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according
to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low
temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb
barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am
Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is
to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an
electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a
magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component.
Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the
rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions
associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend
to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in
detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed.
The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to
my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low
temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb
barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier?
Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Jones: Jed, Ruby etal.-- Jones, as you point out the left out details are more important than what's presented in a paper. My experience is that this happens often in Science. In nuclear reactor design and operation as regulated by the NRC, leaving out information or knowledge from safety presentations and design considerations is a felony. Not so for current science research. Someone should FOIA the NRL for all reviews, reports, documents, comments (information) regarding the Chubb and Letts theory and experiments. This should include all the agendas for reviews of Chubb/letts work and the reviewer names and dates of the reviews. The logs of all Chubb NRL document titles, dates and classification should also be requested via FOIA. The assignment of document numbers in log books (which are generally unclassified) is an excellent source of information to more fully understand what exists in the NRL files. A law suit may be required to get the Navy to abide by FOIA. However, there is nothing pre-decisional about document log books that should hold up the release process. Bob - Original Message - From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier From: David Roberson We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? In IE, issue 95, there is a provocative article by Chubb and Letts. "Magnetic Field Triggering of Excess Power." They are framing a theory - "IBST" - based on ion band states, which is beyond my pay scale to comprehend. And there is a lot of other interesting stuff in the article as well, but what is curious the what they glossed over. If you look at fig. 9 on page 43, they get this fantastic spike in power by changing the magnetic field orientation wrt cathode with H20. But they make a point that this has no lasting effect (beyond the 20-30 second spike). This is maddening. Why not pulse the field a very low duty so as to maintain the massive 10x gain over time?... and we have to think this obvious tactic was pursued but the result is not given; and it all goes to show how overlooked the entire issue of applied magnetic field has been with almost everyone except Letts and Cravens. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Bob, I do not understand your question. I still believe that a large magnetic field is interacting with the individual small NAE in a manner that results in positive feedback among them. The actual manner in which this interaction occurs is evading me. As Frank indicated, a steady magnetic field should not be able to directly reduce the Coulomb barrier and hence I am exploring the concept of a time changing one. He appears to have a concept that allows for the generation of an extremely large magnetic field and if that field changes with time, then the generated electric component might be the one I seek. Do you have a concept that effectively results in the reduction of the Coulomb barrier that we normally discuss? It seems that energy can be borrowed from the time changing magnetic field of sufficient magnitude to reduce the net barrier leading to LENR activity. Once the reaction begins, that borrowed energy is replaced with interest. And, I suspect that most of the released energy from the reaction enhances the original field. The net effect is a growing field and energy release that work together. One interesting feature of this mechanism would be the existence of a threshold effect. Until sufficient coupling among the NEA is established very little energy would be released. That could explain why it is so very difficult to replicate systems. It may not be too difficult to get individual sites to react, but unless enough become involved, the total energy is too small to accurately measure. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Dave-- Is your concept of coherence changing? Frank is providing a cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. Thanks Frank. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the electric force. But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both the field and the LENR activity. Both can then grow until some limiting factor arises. IIRC DGT does suggest that the external magnetic field changes with time as their reaction varies. The question that arises is whether or not that rate of change would be able to generate a sufficient electric component. I find it interesting that nickel has a strong magnetic interaction that may well contribute to the rapid field changes. And, of course, the threshold in LENR occurring around the curie temperature of nickel must has some significance. Dave -Original Message- From: fznidarsic To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 201
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1401.1593.pdf *Experimental study of the two-body spin-orbit force* This field is on the cutting edge of research. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Bob Cook wrote: > Frank-- > > You noted: > > >>>The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin > orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people.<<< > > Why is it ignored? > > Bob > > - Original Message - > *From:* fznidar...@aol.com > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:37 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier > > Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static > force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. > The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer > range. > The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin > orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid > cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor > to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic > field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. > In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a > Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 > megahertz-meters." > > Frank Z > > The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to > my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low > temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to > Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? > > Dave > > > > > -Original Message- > From: David Roberson > To: vortex-l > Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am > Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier > > We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it > is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it > as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to > suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the > electric component. > > Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the > rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions > associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I > tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be > understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. > > The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to > my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low > temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to > Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? > > Dave > >
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Dave-- Is your concept of coherence changing? Frank is providing a cause for expanded scope (size) of coherence in my mind. Thanks Frank. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the electric force. But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both the field and the LENR activity. Both can then grow until some limiting factor arises. IIRC DGT does suggest that the external magnetic field changes with time as their reaction varies. The question that arises is whether or not that rate of change would be able to generate a sufficient electric component. I find it interesting that nickel has a strong magnetic interaction that may well contribute to the rapid field changes. And, of course, the threshold in LENR occurring around the curie temperature of nickel must has some significance. Dave -Original Message- From: fznidarsic To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
- Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the electric force. But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both the field and the LENR activity. Both can then grow until some limiting factor arises. IIRC DGT does suggest that the external magnetic field changes with time as their reaction varies. The question that arises is whether or not that rate of change would be able to generate a sufficient electric component. I find it interesting that nickel has a strong magnetic interaction that may well contribute to the rapid field changes. And, of course, the threshold in LENR occurring around the curie temperature of nickel must has some significance. Dave -Original Message- From: fznidarsic To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Frank-- You noted: >>>The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit >>>force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people.<<< Why is it ignored? Bob - Original Message - From: fznidar...@aol.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Dave-- You're preaching to the choir. Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
I understand that a steady magnetic field can not add energy to a charged particle. It can redirect the velocity vector of that particle but can not directly add energy to it somewhat like the behavior of an electron beam that is bent by a magnetic field so that it moves against a fixed electric field. The initial energy of the electron allows it to move uphill against the electric force. But, if the magnetic field located at the particle is changing in magnitude or direction it generates an electric field that can impart energy. The enormous fields that you mention must begin as small fields that change in time to become large ones and perhaps that is when the additional energy is imparted. I like the thought of a long range effect since that offers an opportunity for coupling among a multitude of individual particles. This coupling could allow for the positive feedback mechanism that reinforces both the field and the LENR activity. Both can then grow until some limiting factor arises. IIRC DGT does suggest that the external magnetic field changes with time as their reaction varies. The question that arises is whether or not that rate of change would be able to generate a sufficient electric component. I find it interesting that nickel has a strong magnetic interaction that may well contribute to the rapid field changes. And, of course, the threshold in LENR occurring around the curie temperature of nickel must has some significance. Dave -Original Message- From: fznidarsic To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Thats a common mistake. We cannot reduce the Coulomb barrier. The static force fields are conserved and cannot be reduced in a two body problem. The static force field can, however, be bypassed by a force with longer range. The magnetic component of the strong nuclear force is called the spin orbit force. It is never considered by the hot fusion people. In the solid cold fusion environment the magnetic component can be increased by a factor to 10 to the 39 power. Again I am not speaking of the electromagnetic field, I am speaking of the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. In short "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is vibrated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters." Frank Z The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave -Original Message- From: David Roberson To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? Dave
RE: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
From: David Roberson We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric component. Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? In IE, issue 95, there is a provocative article by Chubb and Letts. "Magnetic Field Triggering of Excess Power." They are framing a theory - "IBST" - based on ion band states, which is beyond my pay scale to comprehend. And there is a lot of other interesting stuff in the article as well, but what is curious the what they glossed over. If you look at fig. 9 on page 43, they get this fantastic spike in power by changing the magnetic field orientation wrt cathode with H20. But they make a point that this has no lasting effect (beyond the 20-30 second spike). This is maddening. Why not pulse the field a very low duty so as to maintain the massive 10x gain over time?... and we have to think this obvious tactic was pursued but the result is not given; and it all goes to show how overlooked the entire issue of applied magnetic field has been with almost everyone except Letts and Cravens. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
electromagnetic moat Harry On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM, David Roberson wrote: > We hear so much chatter about the Coulomb barrier and how difficult it is > to overcome for fusion events to occur. Perhaps we should consider it as > an electromagnetic barrier instead. There is plenty of reason to suspect > that a magnetic component of force is active along with the electric > component. > > Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the > rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions > associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I > tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be > understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. > > The Coulomb repulsion can be reduced by magnetic attraction according to > my thoughts and that would also explain magnetic interactions and low > temperature operation of LENR devices. Should we drop the reference to > Coulomb barrier and replace it with reference to an Electromagnetic Barrier? > > Dave >
Re: [Vo]:Electromagnetic Barrier
Some in this list believe that spin coupling has a large impact upon the rate of LENR activity and there may well be other magnetic interactions associated with nano particles and their large local magnetic fields. I tend to think that these couplings are a key concept that needs to be understood in detail if an ultimate theory is to be developed. Good, The magnetic components of the force fields are not conserved. They can increases outwith bound. When they become stronger and act at a longer range than the Coulombic, the Coulombic barrier is bypassed. No cracks or heavy neutrons required. Soft iron increase the magnetic component of the electrical field. I believe that a vibrating Bose condensate acts like a soft iron equivalent for the strong nuclear spin orbit force. I have done a lot of math in an effort to prove this. Frank Z
