[vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
When planning your dinner, you should schedule no more than 3-4 courses. Beyond that the logistics become too complicated. Colorful pitchers of beverages or wine bottles are perfect for refreshments. Finger foods are a must, so have plenty of napkins on hand. Here are suggestions for potential courses: * Hors d'oeuvres and cocktails * An appetizer course * A first course such as soup, salad or pasta * The main course including side dishes Cheese, fruit and nuts * Dessert If you wish to add impressionist music, torrent some dreamy songs of Ravel or Debussey. French impressionist music continued to develop in the work of Maurice Ravel, Delius, Respighi and de Falla. If this music fails to amuse the guests, well, Impressionism will have to give way to rock or country! Make sure all the product-pitching technologies are in perfect working order, before the party. Do a run-through of your prepared slides, to make sure they're all right-side up. Make sure the projector hasn't burnt out, and hook it up to the *nix laptop, not the Win* one. Either way, familiarize with and use the more stable OpenOffice Impress technology, rather than PowerPoint. Plan on at least a three hour evening. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Not really. The point of the "XML for Objects" analogy for VOS is that the effect of XML was to get people to agree on a meta-standard to be used for describing documents and data structures, and that has enabled people to better focus on the interesting problems of making programs interoperate. VOS could do something similar, but would address the issues of programs that need to communicate interactively on-line rather than through documents. Anyway it's evident that this analogy is flawed, because people bring too many notions to the table about XML that obscures my point. Regarding JSON: it's basically a convenient notation for the case of transmitting information to the browser, because it can be parsed by the browser's javascript engine in one line of code, whereas XML takes a little more work. If you're not writing a web app otherwise, it doesn't have any particular advantages. On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 05:56:30AM -0700, HEBLACK, J wrote: > Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party > > On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 16:35 -0500, Len Bullard wrote: > Using a syntax > > designed for documents to create a programming language turned out to be a > > not very good idea. MID I eventually became the predecessor to XAML and XUL > > by about ten years. > > I think "XML for Objects" sounds similar to what is below: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript_Object_Notation > > JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight computer data > interchange format. It is a text-based, human-readable format for > representing objects and other data structures and is mainly used to > transmit such structured data over a network connection (in a process > called serialization). > > "However the basic types and data structures of most other programming > languages can also be represented in JSON, and the format can therefore > be used to exchange structured data between programs written in > different languages. Code for parsing and generating JSON (the latter is > also known as "stringifying") is available for the following languages: > ActionScript, C, C++, C#, ColdFusion, Common Lisp, Delphi/Object pascal, > E, Erlang, Haskell, Java, JavaScript, Limbo, Lua, ML, Objective-C, > Objective CAML, Perl, PHP, Python, Rebol, Ruby, Smalltalk and Tcl." > > > -- > Entrante.fig > Search name: insondable > Find items: If any criteria are met > Sender contains aridez > Recipients contains aridez > Subject contains aridez > Message Body contains aridez > Source Account is HEBLACK, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://www.allmyamigos.com/view_profile.php?member_id=6145 > Then Move to Folder Inbox/Air alert > > > > > ___ > vos-d mailing list > vos-d@interreality.org > http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 16:35 -0500, Len Bullard wrote: Using a syntax > designed for documents to create a programming language turned out to be a > not very good idea. MID I eventually became the predecessor to XAML and XUL > by about ten years. I think "XML for Objects" sounds similar to what is below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript_Object_Notation JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a lightweight computer data interchange format. It is a text-based, human-readable format for representing objects and other data structures and is mainly used to transmit such structured data over a network connection (in a process called serialization). "However the basic types and data structures of most other programming languages can also be represented in JSON, and the format can therefore be used to exchange structured data between programs written in different languages. Code for parsing and generating JSON (the latter is also known as "stringifying") is available for the following languages: ActionScript, C, C++, C#, ColdFusion, Common Lisp, Delphi/Object pascal, E, Erlang, Haskell, Java, JavaScript, Limbo, Lua, ML, Objective-C, Objective CAML, Perl, PHP, Python, Rebol, Ruby, Smalltalk and Tcl." -- Entrante.fig Search name: insondable Find items: If any criteria are met Sender contains aridez Recipients contains aridez Subject contains aridez Message Body contains aridez Source Account is HEBLACK, J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.allmyamigos.com/view_profile.php?member_id=6145 Then Move to Folder Inbox/Air alert ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
You know more about that niche than you think you do. Figure out what VOS trades with. Transactions determine niche boundaries and more. len -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reed Hedges Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:27 PM To: VOS Discussion Subject: Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party We don't know what our niche is yet. We have one main domain (3D) and a secondary domain (Web) but there might even be others. Actually when we first began this several years ago, we knew someone who knew someone intersted in building factory tracking systems, though we ended up not really considering that at the time. At one point I wanted to do wireless self-organizing sensor networks-- I still think that will be an emerging realm of innovation but I know that VOS is not a good fit for its requirements. I think we have some vague ideas on what we want our specific niches within 3D to be-- Peter and I may not even be able to explain it well yet. So, we're just trying to implement what we can, so we can show it to people and eventually find a niche. Reed On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:22:10AM -0500, Len Bullard wrote: > The urge to focus on one single application is normal, but if you are > building a toolkit such as VOS, it would be deadly. You're doing the right > thing, but it violates two of the web myths: easy and simple. Simplistic > analogies will sell it perhaps, but don't get trapped by your own press. > VOS won't be a tool everyone can use. The niche that can can do a lot with > it. I think that is Reed's point, yes? > > len ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
We don't know what our niche is yet. We have one main domain (3D) and a secondary domain (Web) but there might even be others. Actually when we first began this several years ago, we knew someone who knew someone intersted in building factory tracking systems, though we ended up not really considering that at the time. At one point I wanted to do wireless self-organizing sensor networks-- I still think that will be an emerging realm of innovation but I know that VOS is not a good fit for its requirements. I think we have some vague ideas on what we want our specific niches within 3D to be-- Peter and I may not even be able to explain it well yet. So, we're just trying to implement what we can, so we can show it to people and eventually find a niche. Reed On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:22:10AM -0500, Len Bullard wrote: > The urge to focus on one single application is normal, but if you are > building a toolkit such as VOS, it would be deadly. You're doing the right > thing, but it violates two of the web myths: easy and simple. Simplistic > analogies will sell it perhaps, but don't get trapped by your own press. > VOS won't be a tool everyone can use. The niche that can can do a lot with > it. I think that is Reed's point, yes? > > len ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Ahh, niches... Interreality/Terangreal/VOS are all parts of an opensource project, right? Would you mind if I made a side-project/spinoff-project, using the same technology? Maybe, if you're giving up on the name "Terangreal", I could name it that (even though I was fairly attached to VOS). ;P Forgive me for this last outburst... But I do believe there's a huge niche for "the product", the way I envision it. And there are relatively few competitors. Please watch the following; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx9FgLr9oTk (Xgl) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgV2GlsufI (AiGlx) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGs9qJNYufE (Desk3d) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXv8VlpoK_g (Looking Glass) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eXOjihfjT8 (True3d*) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fclFCjXc5Ls (SphereXP - 25-30$) http://www.3dna.net/products/gallery.htm (3dna - 30$) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8JGgGt_Ycc (Spectasia 60-130$) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1_7JJUEc9c (Aero - 100-400$) Keep in mind, that I've been thinking of a system that incorporates all of these design ideas, before I knew about ANY of them. This was back in 1998. Over the years, I eventually started hearing about projects like 3dna, Desk3d, Looking Glass, Aero... You see where technology is headed? I knew it before I heard of any of them! I still think it would be awesome if, instead of having to have a code base for Redhat, Debian, SuSE, Mandriva, Gentoo, Vista, and all the other x86 platforms, (and maybe even MacOS), all we'd need would be two; One distribution for x86 and one for PPC. With an entire OS dedicated to 3d effects, we already have an engine built in, making 3d games and applications easier to create for the end-programmer. The end-programmer may also choose to use their own 3d engine, by using the same functions and routines that our 3d engine already calls. If you don't think that 3d is necessarily useful for an icon-based desktop, then please watch this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ (Bumptop - Pen-based file management) And for an idea of an easy way to create 3d objects; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2H35SlLmUA (Teddy - Pen-based object creation) ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Yowsa. In ecosystems, niches aren't a bad thing. They are the only thing. An ecosystem with only one application is just a very large and probably doomed niche. XML is dumb in some ways, but very reapplicable so it thrives. HTML is a box-display and that is the most common means of working with the page metaphor, so it thrives. VRML/X3D is a scene graph and that can be slow, but like the page metaphor, it is reapplicable to many tasks so it never dies. The urge to focus on one single application is normal, but if you are building a toolkit such as VOS, it would be deadly. You're doing the right thing, but it violates two of the web myths: easy and simple. Simplistic analogies will sell it perhaps, but don't get trapped by your own press. VOS won't be a tool everyone can use. The niche that can can do a lot with it. I think that is Reed's point, yes? len From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Amstutz Well, I guess you proved Reed's point by misinterpreting the analogy... The point isn't really about XML per se, it's that the acceptance of XML has created an ecosystem of tools that operate on generic XML, which means applications using XML can leverage those tools. We're proposing something similar in spirit, that a flexible runtime system can support the development of an ecosystem of applications that work together and are more powerful than the sum of their parts. Otherwise I agree, documents are not code, and there's an ocean of difference between the essentially context-free, declarative nature of documents and the essentially stateful, imperative nature of code. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Well, I guess you proved Reed's point by misinterpreting the analogy... The point isn't really about XML per se, it's that the acceptance of XML has created an ecosystem of tools that operate on generic XML, which means applications using XML can leverage those tools. We're proposing something similar in spirit, that a flexible runtime system can support the development of an ecosystem of applications that work together and are more powerful than the sum of their parts. Otherwise I agree, documents are not code, and there's an ocean of difference between the essentially context-free, declarative nature of documents and the essentially stateful, imperative nature of code. On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 04:35:18PM -0500, Len Bullard wrote: > Not to rain on the parade but markup transliteration of objects has been > done before. See US Navy MID design prototypes. If you use that analogy be > sure to clarify that this is not a simple transliteration. Using a syntax > designed for documents to create a programming language turned out to be a > not very good idea. MID I eventually became the predecessor to XAML and XUL > by about ten years. > > len > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Peter Amstutz > > > It's an OK analogy but only if you don't then start applying assumptions > > to VOS based on what XML is for and what it's restrictions are. > > Right. I'd only use this analogy with someone who already has a vague > idea that VOS is about communicating objects and not documents. > > > > ___ > vos-d mailing list > vos-d@interreality.org > http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Not to rain on the parade but markup transliteration of objects has been done before. See US Navy MID design prototypes. If you use that analogy be sure to clarify that this is not a simple transliteration. Using a syntax designed for documents to create a programming language turned out to be a not very good idea. MID I eventually became the predecessor to XAML and XUL by about ten years. len From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Amstutz > It's an OK analogy but only if you don't then start applying assumptions > to VOS based on what XML is for and what it's restrictions are. Right. I'd only use this analogy with someone who already has a vague idea that VOS is about communicating objects and not documents. ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 04:07:10PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: > > Walking into a presentation and saying "A focus of the VOS platform will > > be on interoperability with existing systems" makes people ears perk up, > > Right, though that's a hard thing to promise. Maybe "we're willing to > make VOS interoperable with other systems as required, and here are a > few we've already done: x, y, z." > > To add the it's-not-cookie-cutters part: "you can organize your data in > whataver way fits with your need, and while this requires a bit more > work to actually do that, all the features and tools and other automatic > bits will still work." It's true. The advantages to VOS seem to be that it gives you a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too approach to data structures; you can smoosh several data models together into the same logical object on the fly. Among other things this means that you can avoid "slicing" whereby data specific to one data model is lost in translation because the target data model doesn't support it and doesn't have room for it. In the VOS case, you translate what you can into standard object types, but can also attach your extended data and leave it there until you need it later when writing out the data to the original format. Now, this isn't perfect (there could be data dependencies which arn't maintained if the standard data is changed without updating the extended data) but it's light years better than what most people are doing. > > Also, last night I came up with a new analogy for VOS: > > "XML for Objects" > > > > Meaning, essentially, in the way that XML provides a meta-syntax for > > documents and enables a galaxy of tools and applications that can > > process them, VOS could provide a meta-framework for applications to > > interact, and similarly enable a galaxy of tools and applications that > > can interoperate with them. > > It's an OK analogy but only if you don't then start applying assumptions > to VOS based on what XML is for and what it's restrictions are. Right. I'd only use this analogy with someone who already has a vague idea that VOS is about communicating objects and not documents. -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
Re: [vos-d] How to host a product design dinner party
Check this out: http://earlystagevc.typepad.com/earlystagevc/ The most recent post about "Web 2.0" talks about how he thinks the next big thing is going to be interoperability. He mentions it more in the context of web services, but in fact many web services are a step backwards in terms of transparency, as a monolithic function-call API reveals little about the underlying structure of the data you are querying. VOS as a platform for interoperability has a lot of potential. What's unique, I think, is we're concerned with interoperability on multiple levels, thinking outside the "web" (HTTP/HTML) box, and application focused, so instead of fuzzy-headed theory or design by committee but we're actually trying to make it work for us in practice. Walking into a presentation and saying "A focus of the VOS platform will be on interoperability with existing systems" makes people ears perk up, probably because the strategy for 99% of systems is platform lock-in. Since we're open source, we have no motivation to create lock-in, and ironically lack of lock-in becomes our own advantage. Also, last night I came up with a new analogy for VOS: "XML for Objects" Meaning, essentially, in the way that XML provides a meta-syntax for documents and enables a galaxy of tools and applications that can process them, VOS could provide a meta-framework for applications to interact, and similarly enable a galaxy of tools and applications that can interoperate with them. On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 11:13:09AM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote: > > http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/03/how_to_host_a_p.html > -- [ Peter Amstutz ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [Lead Programmer][Interreality Project][Virtual Reality for the Internet] [ VOS: Next Generation Internet Communication][ http://interreality.org ] [ http://interreality.org/~tetron ][ pgpkey: pgpkeys.mit.edu 18C21DF7 ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vos-d mailing list vos-d@interreality.org http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
