Re: Maintain server state of a page + Javascript page navigation

2009-07-08 Thread shravan kumar
 Thanks for your response Mike. 

What is Giandiua btw? Google says it is a Chocolate from Italy!!!

The page am referring is just one of the pages of a wizard, which has 
sub-pages. The whole wizard runs through component actions.

I was actually about following situation:

When we have long response component displayed upon initiating a request, and 
we see long response until we have a response. Once after the response let's 
say I just hide long response component and show the main component, now user 
cannot perform any actions in this main component and we might receive errors 
like: You have exceeded 30 pages limit/ page out of cache... this is because 
the context bound to the action element is older. Am I correct (Mike) ?

I understand by your saying switching to direct actions, we can get away from 
this issue if we use direct actions. But am wondering if I can use component 
actions and direct actions freely. I hope I can validate whether the direct 
action request is initiated by a logged-in valid user, so my direct actions are 
not floating freely.

---

If I use component actions, can you advise me how can I have all the elements, 
app in the latest context?

Thank You,
Shravan Kumar. M
--



Monday, July 6, 2009 7:14 PM



From: 
Mike Schrag msch...@mdimension.com



To: 
WO Dev Group webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
seems
to me like you're swimming against the tide here ... i think you need
to rethink this architecture.  you're basically sending the users the
entire site, which makes this more of a Sproutcore/Giandiua/etc
workflow, and mixing component actions into this style of app is going
to be very tricky. I would recommend switching to directactions. you
could keep a session alive with a ping if you really need it to be
sessionful, but trying to actually use WOForms in this thing is going
to be an endless headache imo.
On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:54 AM, shravan kumar wrote:
Hi Group,

Could you please advise me a solution to achieve below functionality:

Scenario:
-

I
have a page which gets all the data like text content [3000 lines or
more], images info [about 500 or more] once when the user requests for
this page.

Once this data from the server has arrived, we will
be displaying this whole data part by part by splitting this data into
sub-pages through javascript. So, user actually sees the sub-page
rather the whole page received from the server.

There can be around 40 sub-pages or more.

While
navigating through each of these sub-pages user may perform a server
action like edit some text and save, rotate an image and save, ... and
all these actions do not refresh the whole page/ sub-page (like we see
in ajax implementations) and just update a particular field.

I assume that there might be some time-gap say 10 minutes or more between each 
of the server actions performed by the user.


During these times as you know, we have to maintain the session of this
user in the server (this can be achieved through lets say session
timeout value), state of this page in the server, ... 

Problem:
-
How
can I maintain the state of this page (generally whenever we do a
submit WO app returns with a new context info, correct?), so all my
actions are valid and there are issues of Broken pipe/ page not in the
cache/ ...

I thought of just pinging the server every few
seconds for some dummy data like: how are you doing? or something like
gmail does? However, I do not know how to exactly implement this
behavior.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance,
Shravan Kumar. M

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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Anjo Krank wrote:


Am 08.07.2009 um 03:55 schrieb Chuck Hill:


On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Ken Anderson wrote:


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/07/apple_to_drop_webobjects_in_snow_leopard_server.html



Nothing new there.  They even got most of the facts correct!  ;-)


WTF is that jlm808 id^H^H guy in the forums? Exactly this kind of  
language makes all of us look like a bunch of raving maniacs. Hey  
look! See that guy with the hunchback? That's one of the two WO devs  
left in the world.. Ohh, the poor unfortunate creature...


The intelligence of the comments are about what you usually get on a  
public forum.  It has once again restored my lack of faith in humanity.



The article was totally ok, one might have mentioned that it is  
actually a good thing the standard install is gone (because update  
will fuck it up every so often, if I did ruby, I'd be horrified that  
Apple includes ROR), and it's only a deployment issue, not dev.



Yes, much gnashing of teeth about a small and good change.


Chuck

--
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Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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WOCheckBoxList is not working in WO-5.4

2009-07-08 Thread Kalpana Vaka
Hi,

 

We are trying to migrate our application deployment environment from
WebObjects 5.2 to WebObjects 5.4.

 

In some of the WOComponents, we are making use of WOCheckBoxList and
WOCheckboxMatrix elements. In WO5.2, WOCheckBoxList is working fine and we
are able to view the check boxes. But in WO5.4, WOCheckBoxList is displaying
as a text box with values 0,1,2 etc.,  I came to know that some of these
dynamic elements are deprecated in WebObjects 5.

 

Is there any way to make WOCheckBoxList work in WebObjects 5.4 version? 

 

Thanks  Regards,

Kalpana.

 

 

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Re: WOLips Entity Modeler SQL Generation and WO 5.4

2009-07-08 Thread Johann Werner

Hi Dave,

this addition to _Entity.java seems very useful. Perhaps it should be  
added to the standard templates? They would become more sort of use  
them and don't care so perhaps file a jira.


jw


Am 08.07.2009 um 01:00 schrieb David Avendasora:



On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Miguel Angel Torres Avila wrote:


Hi, Thanks for the hint about using Prototypes, it is really useful.


That brought to my mine a questing that is a little out of the topic.

If you have an attribute prototyped as currencyAmount the precision  
is set to 38 and the scale to 4. The Data Type suggested is  
java.math.BigDecimal.
How are you guys controlling that the BigDecimal in your java class  
does not have a value whit a scale superior of 4 before saving the  
editing context to avoid an exception?


We are currently solving this just rounding the value before  
saving, or in the validation method  to ensure the scale is not  
superior that the value defined in modeler. But one of the great  
things of prototyping is that if for some reason I want to change  
the scale to 5 instead 4, all the attribute definition's that are  
using that prototype will be updated, what about the BigDecimal?


Maybe I am wrong on thinking that I should be sure that the scale  
of my BigDecimal  must be less than or equals to the scale defined  
in the modeler to avoid exception on saving.


How do you guys handle this?


I have modified my EOGenerator _Entity.java template to watch for  
BigDecimal data types and to automatically set the scale to what the  
Model has the scale set to. Here's the snippit of code from the  
attribute setter method:


#if ($attribute.javaClassName == java.math.BigDecimal)
if (${attribute.name} != null) {
			${attribute.name} = ${attribute.name}.setScale($ 
{attribute.scale}, RoundingMode.HALF_UP);

}
#end

I never had an error since I started using this and if I change the  
settings in the EOModel, my classes are updated when the  
EOGeneration runs.


Dave








On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:42 PM, Johann Werner wrote:



Am 07.07.2009 um 21:09 schrieb Scott M. Neal:



On Jun 30, 2009, at 5:43 PM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jun 30, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Scott M. Neal wrote:

Well, if you're looking for excuses to upgrade things, maybe  
transition to using Prototypes. I'm sure the Postgress  
Prototypes in Wonder's ERPrototypes will all have the proper  
External Types. :-)


Wow, thank you Dave, that DOES make things substantially easier
(and less prone to error--sure enough, had a missing external  
type in
one of the entities).  All this modern fanciness, still getting  
used

to it...

Now my question is, for the Postgresql prototypes, which one
is recommended to use for primary keys?  Googling reveals some  
people
using long (called longNumber in prototypes), which is what I  
historically
used, while others are using varchar (but not consistent  
regarding size:

10? 100? 10,000,000?  :-))


Why don't you just choose the most obvious prototype: 'id'? Life  
can be so easy ;-)


jw




Thank you,

Scott


Otherwise, you should be able to just select one entity at a  
time and click the SQL button and see which one(s) generate the  
error. I see pretty clear error messages with this, that say  
exactly what external type is not recognized.


Dave


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A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Paul Stringer
Wow doesn't happen often but WebObjects getting a mention in the Mac  
press. It's remarking on the dropping of WebObjects deployment from  
Snow Leopard Server (not like it matters WOInstaller does the job  
fine). WOLips gets a mention too nice!. D.E. Dilger really seems to  
like to give a mention to WebObjects whenever he can.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/07/apple_to_drop_webobjects_in_snow_leopard_server.html
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/07/apple-to-drop-webobjects-in-snow-leopard-server/

Paul S
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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread David Avendasora
Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied to  
OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more frequent  
releases of updates to the frameworks.


Dave

On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:51 AM, Paul Stringer wrote:

Wow doesn't happen often but WebObjects getting a mention in the Mac  
press. It's remarking on the dropping of WebObjects deployment from  
Snow Leopard Server (not like it matters WOInstaller does the job  
fine). WOLips gets a mention too nice!. D.E. Dilger really seems to  
like to give a mention to WebObjects whenever he can.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/07/apple_to_drop_webobjects_in_snow_leopard_server.html
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/07/apple-to-drop-webobjects-in-snow-leopard-server/

Paul S
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Re: WOLips Entity Modeler SQL Generation and WO 5.4

2009-07-08 Thread David Avendasora


On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:21 AM, Johann Werner wrote:


Hi Dave,

this addition to _Entity.java seems very useful. Perhaps it should  
be added to the standard templates? They would become more sort of  
use them and don't care so perhaps file a jira.


Done. WOL-1035


the snippit of code from the attribute setter method:

#if ($attribute.javaClassName == java.math.BigDecimal)
if (${attribute.name} != null) {
			${attribute.name} = ${attribute.name}.setScale($ 
{attribute.scale}, RoundingMode.HALF_UP);

}
#ends


Here's what the code looks like based on the default templates since  
they use value instead of the actual attribute name:


#if ($attribute.javaClassName == java.math.BigDecimal)
if (value != null) {
value = value.setScale(${attribute.scale}, 
RoundingMode.HALF_UP);
}
#ends


Dave
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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread David Avendasora


On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied  
to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more frequent  
releases of updates to the frameworks.


And OS X Software Update won't mess with your production install and  
setup of WebObjects. That's probably the best thing about it not being  
part of OS X anymore.


Dave


Dave

On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:51 AM, Paul Stringer wrote:

Wow doesn't happen often but WebObjects getting a mention in the  
Mac press. It's remarking on the dropping of WebObjects deployment  
from Snow Leopard Server (not like it matters WOInstaller does the  
job fine). WOLips gets a mention too nice!. D.E. Dilger really  
seems to like to give a mention to WebObjects whenever he can.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/07/apple_to_drop_webobjects_in_snow_leopard_server.html
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/07/apple-to-drop-webobjects-in-snow-leopard-server/

Paul S
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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Miguel Arroz

Hi!

  I did not comment on AppleInsider (and I'm not jlm808 :) ) but what  
gets my pissed off about journalists (these, and others) is the fact  
that they grab a few facts, and take stupid conclusions out of them.


  Yes, eventually, Snow Leopard won't include WO (these things were  
supposed to be under NDA, but yeah) which, as you said, and me,  
and many other people, is a good thing. But picking that up and  
writing that the company will drop deployment support for its  
WebObjects web application server in Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server is  
plain stupidity. There's a huge diference between not supported and  
not included on the default installation. It's the same as saying  
FreeBSD doesn't support Apache server because it doesn't come  
installed on the base installation. It's ridiculous.


  Anyway, moving on...

  Yours

Miguel Arroz

On 2009/07/08, at 06:14, Anjo Krank wrote:


Am 08.07.2009 um 03:55 schrieb Chuck Hill:


On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Ken Anderson wrote:


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/07/apple_to_drop_webobjects_in_snow_leopard_server.html



Nothing new there.  They even got most of the facts correct!  ;-)


WTF is that jlm808 id^H^H guy in the forums? Exactly this kind of  
language makes all of us look like a bunch of raving maniacs. Hey  
look! See that guy with the hunchback? That's one of the two WO devs  
left in the world.. Ohh, the poor unfortunate creature...


The article was totally ok, one might have mentioned that it is  
actually a good thing the standard install is gone (because update  
will fuck it up every so often, if I did ruby, I'd be horrified that  
Apple includes ROR), and it's only a deployment issue, not dev.


Cheers, Anjo
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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Q


On 08/07/2009, at 10:03 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:


Hi!

 I did not comment on AppleInsider (and I'm not jlm808 :) ) but what  
gets my pissed off about journalists (these, and others) is the fact  
that they grab a few facts, and take stupid conclusions out of them.


While it annoys me too, I would rather spend my energy hacking on code  
than wasting my breath (keystrokes?) educating people who don't really  
matter. They aren't a part of the WO community so I don't care.


 Yes, eventually, Snow Leopard won't include WO (these things were  
supposed to be under NDA, but yeah) which, as you said, and me,  
and many other people, is a good thing. But picking that up and  
writing that the company will drop deployment support for its  
WebObjects web application server in Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server  
is plain stupidity. There's a huge diference between not supported  
and not included on the default installation. It's the same as  
saying FreeBSD doesn't support Apache server because it doesn't come  
installed on the base installation. It's ridiculous.


The fact that it took apple this long to unshackle webobjects from  
OSX / XCode is ridiculous.



 Anyway, moving on...


And hanging out for the next episode. I love watching this show, the  
suspense, the drama. :)


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Gold Coast, QLD, Australia (GMT+10)
Ph: +61 419 729 806



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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread William Hatch


On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied  
to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more frequent  
releases of updates to the frameworks.


seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into the  
main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully it means  
that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment that  
virtually nobody uses and focus on the frameworks instead. I hate the  
thought of one more minute going into maintaining wotaskd, monitor and  
everything else that goes along with WebObjects as a stand alone  
application server. They should have done it long ago, and in all  
honesty, we should have been willing to let that go a long time ago,  
if it would have helped with resources inside apple devoted to  
developing WO. 
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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread David Avendasora

Hi Bill,

I feel your WOServletAdaptor Unavailable pain. It sucks and it's never  
the same problem twice.


Take JavaXML.framework out of your build path and then add back  
anything you specifically need in your project individually.


Dave

On Jul 7, 2009, at 11:35 PM, William Hatch wrote:


WTF

I have three apps, all deployed under the same container. they all  
have the same classpaths. two of them deploy, one does not with that  
miserable, make-you-want-to-kill error WOServletAdaptor  
Unavailable All of these are built on a remote host using ant  
from the shell on a CentOS box. That part works fine. In a recent  
post, Mike makes mention of this jar hosing you, and I'd say it  
does, but not all the time. If you keep sudo touching the damned  
war, eventually it deploys. Why is this not a consistent error?   
What can be done to make this stop, and what can be done so that one  
can never have to speak it's name again? I mean clearly, you  
shouldn't have javaxml.jar in your classpath and all that, but is  
there an easy way to prevent it from getting there period? I'd  
rather suffer with some compiler errors up front if it'd help.  
Thanks for letting me vent...;-) My future hair line thanks you in  
advance for any solid suggestions that lead to a more serene place


Bill


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logOut method its not working as expected

2009-07-08 Thread Gustavo Pizano
Hello I have the following in the WOComponent

wo:WOHyperlink id =logOut class = moreButton action = $logOutLog
Out/wo:WOHyperlink
in the .java. I have the follwoing:

   /**
  * Simple logout action that leaves the user on the page returned by the
default
  * Direct Action.
  * @return codeWORedirect/code to default Direct Action
  */
 public static final NSDictionary noWOSID = new
NSDictionary(Boolean.FALSE, wosid);
 public WOComponent logOut(){
 session().terminate();
 WORedirect mainPage = (WORedirect) pageWithName(WORedirect);
 mainPage.setUrl(context().directActionURLForActionNamed(logOut,
noWOSID));
 return mainPage;
 }

and in the directaction :

   /**
 *
 * @return The result of gettign the Action of Log out
 */
public WOActionResults logOutAction(){

return pageWithName(LogOutPage.class.getName());
}

I have nothing in the LogOutPage, just a LogOut Succesfull.  but if I
click the back button Im still inside the application, and can keep working
on it :S

why is this?

Thanks

Gustavo
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Re: Maintain server state of a page + Javascript page navigation

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
Yes, if you bind to an action that falls out of the backtrack cache,  
you'll get that error. This can happen for several reasons.


Not sure what you mean about using component actions and direct  
actions freely. Component actions are powerful but just have intrinsic  
limitations. If you have a long running process on the client side  
that could reasonably run longer than your session timeout, you either  
have to keep the session alive with some sort of ping in the  
background (I think Ajax framework has a component for this), or you  
need to switch to direct actions.  DA's can fully access the session,  
but you have the same issue -- if your client process takes longer  
than your session lifetime, you're going to lose that information. In  
the DA case, that either means the same sort of ping process, or it  
means making your app stateless (i.e. client side tracks and passes in  
the current state).


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:01 AM, shravan kumar wrote:


Thanks for your response Mike.

What is Giandiua btw? Google says it is a Chocolate from Italy!!!

The page am referring is just one of the pages of a wizard, which  
has sub-pages. The whole wizard runs through component actions.


I was actually about following situation:

When we have long response component displayed upon initiating a  
request, and we see long response until we have a response. Once  
after the response let's say I just hide long response component and  
show the main component, now user cannot perform any actions in this  
main component and we might receive errors like: You have exceeded  
30 pages limit/ page out of cache... this is because the context  
bound to the action element is older. Am I correct (Mike) ?


I understand by your saying switching to direct actions, we can get  
away from this issue if we use direct actions. But am wondering if I  
can use component actions and direct actions freely. I hope I can  
validate whether the direct action request is initiated by a logged- 
in valid user, so my direct actions are not floating freely.


---

If I use component actions, can you advise me how can I have all the  
elements, app in the latest context?


Thank You,
Shravan Kumar. M
--


Monday, July 6, 2009 7:14 PM
From:
Mike Schrag msch...@mdimension.com
To:
WO Dev Group webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
seems to me like you're swimming against the tide here ... i think  
you need to rethink this architecture.  you're basically sending the  
users the entire site, which makes this more of a Sproutcore/ 
Giandiua/etc workflow, and mixing component actions into this style  
of app is going to be very tricky. I would recommend switching to  
directactions. you could keep a session alive with a ping if you  
really need it to be sessionful, but trying to actually use WOForms  
in this thing is going to be an endless headache imo.

On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:54 AM, shravan kumar wrote:


Hi Group,

Could you please advise me a solution to achieve below functionality:

Scenario:
-

I have a page which gets all the data like text content [3000 lines  
or more], images info [about 500 or more] once when the user  
requests for this page.


Once this data from the server has arrived, we will be displaying  
this whole data part by part by splitting this data into sub-pages  
through javascript. So, user actually sees the sub-page rather the  
whole page received from the server.


There can be around 40 sub-pages or more.

While navigating through each of these sub-pages user may perform a  
server action like edit some text and save, rotate an image and  
save, ... and all these actions do not refresh the whole page/ sub- 
page (like we see in ajax implementations) and just update a  
particular field.


I assume that there might be some time-gap say 10 minutes or more  
between each of the server actions performed by the user.


During these times as you know, we have to maintain the session of  
this user in the server (this can be achieved through lets say  
session timeout value), state of this page in the server, ...


Problem:
-
How can I maintain the state of this page (generally whenever we do  
a submit WO app returns with a new context info, correct?), so all  
my actions are valid and there are issues of Broken pipe/ page not  
in the cache/ ...


I thought of just pinging the server every few seconds for some  
dummy data like: how are you doing? or something like gmail does?  
However, I do not know how to exactly implement this behavior.


Please advise.

Thanks in advance,
Shravan Kumar. M

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Re: logOut method its not working as expected

2009-07-08 Thread Catherine Ferris

Hi Gustavo,

Is your logout page stateful of stateless ?

If it's stateful then the displaying the page will create a new  
session automatically.


Catherine Ferris
e-mail: k...@tycho.org.uk
web: http://www.tycho.org.uk/

On 8 Jul 2009, at 14:21, Gustavo Pizano wrote:


Hello I have the following in the WOComponent

wo:WOHyperlink id =logOut class = moreButton action =  
$logOutLog Out/wo:WOHyperlink

in the .java. I have the follwoing:

   /**
  * Simple logout action that leaves the user on the page returned  
by the default

  * Direct Action.
  * @return codeWORedirect/code to default Direct Action
  */
 public static final NSDictionary noWOSID = new  
NSDictionary(Boolean.FALSE, wosid);

 public WOComponent logOut(){
 session().terminate();
 WORedirect mainPage = (WORedirect)  
pageWithName(WORedirect);
  
mainPage.setUrl(context().directActionURLForActionNamed(logOut,  
noWOSID));

 return mainPage;
 }

and in the directaction :

   /**
 *
 * @return The result of gettign the Action of Log out
 */
public WOActionResults logOutAction(){

return pageWithName(LogOutPage.class.getName());
}

I have nothing in the LogOutPage, just a LogOut Succesfull.  but  
if I click the back button Im still inside the application, and can  
keep working on it :S


why is this?

Thanks

Gustavo

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Re: logOut method its not working as expected

2009-07-08 Thread Gustavo Pizano
MMM first time I heard the expression, i guess its stateful,  what can I do
then?

G

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Catherine Ferris k...@tycho.org.uk wrote:

 Hi Gustavo,

 Is your logout page stateful of stateless ?

 If it's stateful then the displaying the page will create a new session
 automatically.

 Catherine Ferris

 e-mail: k...@tycho.org.uk

 web: http://www.tycho.org.uk/

 On 8 Jul 2009, at 14:21, Gustavo Pizano wrote:

 Hello I have the following in the WOComponent

 wo:WOHyperlink id =logOut class = moreButton action = $logOutLog
 Out/wo:WOHyperlink
 in the .java. I have the follwoing:

/**
   * Simple logout action that leaves the user on the page returned by the
 default
   * Direct Action.
   * @return codeWORedirect/code to default Direct Action
   */
  public static final NSDictionary noWOSID = new
 NSDictionary(Boolean.FALSE, wosid);
  public WOComponent logOut(){
  session().terminate();
  WORedirect mainPage = (WORedirect) pageWithName(WORedirect);
  mainPage.setUrl(context().directActionURLForActionNamed(logOut,
 noWOSID));
  return mainPage;
  }

 and in the directaction :

/**
  *
  * @return The result of gettign the Action of Log out
  */
 public WOActionResults logOutAction(){

 return pageWithName(LogOutPage.class.getName());
 }

 I have nothing in the LogOutPage, just a LogOut Succesfull.  but if I
 click the back button Im still inside the application, and can keep working
 on it :S

 why is this?

 Thanks

 Gustavo

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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Kieran Kelleher
I agree. After all, it is not uncommon to want to install and maintain  
your own version of core technologies that your app depends on. For  
example I never used the built-in MySQL in OS X Server. I always  
disabled that, and downloaded and installed the exact version of  
standard os x binaries that my app is developed and tested with.


On Jul 8, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Q wrote:



On 08/07/2009, at 10:03 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:


Hi!

I did not comment on AppleInsider (and I'm not jlm808 :) ) but what  
gets my pissed off about journalists (these, and others) is the  
fact that they grab a few facts, and take stupid conclusions out of  
them.


While it annoys me too, I would rather spend my energy hacking on  
code than wasting my breath (keystrokes?) educating people who don't  
really matter. They aren't a part of the WO community so I don't care.


Yes, eventually, Snow Leopard won't include WO (these things were  
supposed to be under NDA, but yeah) which, as you said, and me,  
and many other people, is a good thing. But picking that up and  
writing that the company will drop deployment support for its  
WebObjects web application server in Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server  
is plain stupidity. There's a huge diference between not  
supported and not included on the default installation. It's the  
same as saying FreeBSD doesn't support Apache server because it  
doesn't come installed on the base installation. It's ridiculous.


The fact that it took apple this long to unshackle webobjects from  
OSX / XCode is ridiculous.



Anyway, moving on...


And hanging out for the next episode. I love watching this show, the  
suspense, the drama. :)


--
Seeya...Q

Quinton Dolan - qdo...@gmail.com
Gold Coast, QLD, Australia (GMT+10)
Ph: +61 419 729 806



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Re: logOut method its not working as expected

2009-07-08 Thread Gustavo Pizano
I was reading... so I have to overrride the
isStateless

method?

G

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Gustavo Pizano
webobjectspic...@gmail.comwrote:

 MMM first time I heard the expression, i guess its stateful,  what can I do
 then?

 G


 On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Catherine Ferris k...@tycho.org.ukwrote:

 Hi Gustavo,

 Is your logout page stateful of stateless ?

 If it's stateful then the displaying the page will create a new session
 automatically.

 Catherine Ferris

 e-mail: k...@tycho.org.uk

 web: http://www.tycho.org.uk/

 On 8 Jul 2009, at 14:21, Gustavo Pizano wrote:

 Hello I have the following in the WOComponent

 wo:WOHyperlink id =logOut class = moreButton action = $logOutLog
 Out/wo:WOHyperlink
 in the .java. I have the follwoing:

/**
   * Simple logout action that leaves the user on the page returned by the
 default
   * Direct Action.
   * @return codeWORedirect/code to default Direct Action
   */
  public static final NSDictionary noWOSID = new
 NSDictionary(Boolean.FALSE, wosid);
  public WOComponent logOut(){
  session().terminate();
  WORedirect mainPage = (WORedirect) pageWithName(WORedirect);
  mainPage.setUrl(context().directActionURLForActionNamed(logOut,
 noWOSID));
  return mainPage;
  }

 and in the directaction :

/**
  *
  * @return The result of gettign the Action of Log out
  */
 public WOActionResults logOutAction(){

 return pageWithName(LogOutPage.class.getName());
 }

 I have nothing in the LogOutPage, just a LogOut Succesfull.  but if I
 click the back button Im still inside the application, and can keep working
 on it :S

 why is this?

 Thanks

 Gustavo

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Re: logOut method its not working as expected

2009-07-08 Thread Gustavo Pizano
ok so I override the method and return true, but still I can go back to the
application when pushing the back button of the browser.

:(

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Gustavo Pizano
webobjectspic...@gmail.comwrote:

 I was reading... so I have to overrride the
 isStateless

 method?

 G


 On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Gustavo Pizano webobjectspic...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 MMM first time I heard the expression, i guess its stateful,  what can I
 do then?

 G


 On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Catherine Ferris k...@tycho.org.ukwrote:

 Hi Gustavo,

 Is your logout page stateful of stateless ?

 If it's stateful then the displaying the page will create a new session
 automatically.

 Catherine Ferris

 e-mail: k...@tycho.org.uk

 web: http://www.tycho.org.uk/

 On 8 Jul 2009, at 14:21, Gustavo Pizano wrote:

 Hello I have the following in the WOComponent

 wo:WOHyperlink id =logOut class = moreButton action = $logOutLog
 Out/wo:WOHyperlink
 in the .java. I have the follwoing:

/**
   * Simple logout action that leaves the user on the page returned by the
 default
   * Direct Action.
   * @return codeWORedirect/code to default Direct Action
   */
  public static final NSDictionary noWOSID = new
 NSDictionary(Boolean.FALSE, wosid);
  public WOComponent logOut(){
  session().terminate();
  WORedirect mainPage = (WORedirect) pageWithName(WORedirect);

 mainPage.setUrl(context().directActionURLForActionNamed(logOut,
 noWOSID));
  return mainPage;
  }

 and in the directaction :

/**
  *
  * @return The result of gettign the Action of Log out
  */
 public WOActionResults logOutAction(){

 return pageWithName(LogOutPage.class.getName());
 }

 I have nothing in the LogOutPage, just a LogOut Succesfull.  but if I
 click the back button Im still inside the application, and can keep working
 on it :S

 why is this?

 Thanks

 Gustavo

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Re: WOLips Entity Modeler SQL Generation and WO 5.4

2009-07-08 Thread Miguel Angel Torres Avila

Thanks David,

This is exactly what I was looking for.

I will try it.

Gracias.



On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:00 PM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Miguel Angel Torres Avila wrote:


Hi, Thanks for the hint about using Prototypes, it is really useful.


That brought to my mine a questing that is a little out of the topic.

If you have an attribute prototyped as currencyAmount the precision  
is set to 38 and the scale to 4. The Data Type suggested is  
java.math.BigDecimal.
How are you guys controlling that the BigDecimal in your java class  
does not have a value whit a scale superior of 4 before saving the  
editing context to avoid an exception?


We are currently solving this just rounding the value before  
saving, or in the validation method  to ensure the scale is not  
superior that the value defined in modeler. But one of the great  
things of prototyping is that if for some reason I want to change  
the scale to 5 instead 4, all the attribute definition's that are  
using that prototype will be updated, what about the BigDecimal?


Maybe I am wrong on thinking that I should be sure that the scale  
of my BigDecimal  must be less than or equals to the scale defined  
in the modeler to avoid exception on saving.


How do you guys handle this?


I have modified my EOGenerator _Entity.java template to watch for  
BigDecimal data types and to automatically set the scale to what the  
Model has the scale set to. Here's the snippit of code from the  
attribute setter method:


#if ($attribute.javaClassName == java.math.BigDecimal)
if (${attribute.name} != null) {
			${attribute.name} = ${attribute.name}.setScale($ 
{attribute.scale}, RoundingMode.HALF_UP);

}
#end

I never had an error since I started using this and if I change the  
settings in the EOModel, my classes are updated when the  
EOGeneration runs.


Dave








On Jul 7, 2009, at 2:42 PM, Johann Werner wrote:



Am 07.07.2009 um 21:09 schrieb Scott M. Neal:



On Jun 30, 2009, at 5:43 PM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jun 30, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Scott M. Neal wrote:

Well, if you're looking for excuses to upgrade things, maybe  
transition to using Prototypes. I'm sure the Postgress  
Prototypes in Wonder's ERPrototypes will all have the proper  
External Types. :-)


Wow, thank you Dave, that DOES make things substantially easier
(and less prone to error--sure enough, had a missing external  
type in
one of the entities).  All this modern fanciness, still getting  
used

to it...

Now my question is, for the Postgresql prototypes, which one
is recommended to use for primary keys?  Googling reveals some  
people
using long (called longNumber in prototypes), which is what I  
historically
used, while others are using varchar (but not consistent  
regarding size:

10? 100? 10,000,000?  :-))


Why don't you just choose the most obvious prototype: 'id'? Life  
can be so easy ;-)


jw




Thank you,

Scott


Otherwise, you should be able to just select one entity at a  
time and click the SQL button and see which one(s) generate the  
error. I see pretty clear error messages with this, that say  
exactly what external type is not recognized.


Dave


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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Jon Nolan

Kieran Kelleher wrote:


The fact that it took apple this long to unshackle webobjects from 
OSX / XCode is ridiculous.




Please forgive me if this is a stupid question but the answer seems to 
be hush-hush - a bit like how we don't speak of why Uncle Tommy spent 
three years in jail and is not allowed within 300 yards of elementary 
schools...


How does one get a legitimate, legal, show to God and everybody, overt, 
loud and proud license for WebObjects deployment on non-OSX platforms?  
How will one do so when WO is not bundled with an OS release?  Is there 
a Wiki I'm missing?


Thanks,
Jon
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WOWODC East : complete session descriptions

2009-07-08 Thread Pascal Robert

Hello everyone,

The complete session list and description for WOWODC East is now  
online :


http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/east/topics.html

Reminder : early-bird pricing ends on August 1th, cut-off for the  
hotel discount is July 28th. It's the same week-end as our NASCAR  
(Nationwide) race so you should get your hotel reservation before July  
28th.


Also, some of you have asked about a schedule so that you can make  
your plane reservation. The final schedule is not done yet, but we  
hope to start at 08:30am each day, and end at 6pm. Labs for the  
advanced track are in the afternoon, and we will record the sessions  
too.


Hope to see you there!

---
Pascal Robert

http://www.macti.ca | http://www.linkedin.com/in/macti

Skype | Twitter | AIM/iChat : MacTICanada

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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Joe Little
Currently?

With WO 5.4.x (I think all versions) you get the code through
development, and the license included therein states free to deploy
anywhere. Thus, you get it via Xcode (up to 5.4.2) or ADC (5.4.3) or
indirectly through the WOInstaller.jar for 5.4.3 and 5.3.3. I believe
there was still a license file requirement inside of 5.3.3 that came
with the package, but 5.4.x now ignores the license component. Its all
just legal wording at this point.

Others can chime in where I'm wrong.


On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Jon Nolanli...@lochgarman.com wrote:
 Kieran Kelleher wrote:

 The fact that it took apple this long to unshackle webobjects from OSX /
 XCode is ridiculous.


 Please forgive me if this is a stupid question but the answer seems to be
 hush-hush - a bit like how we don't speak of why Uncle Tommy spent three
 years in jail and is not allowed within 300 yards of elementary schools...

 How does one get a legitimate, legal, show to God and everybody, overt, loud
 and proud license for WebObjects deployment on non-OSX platforms?  How will
 one do so when WO is not bundled with an OS release?  Is there a Wiki I'm
 missing?

 Thanks,
 Jon
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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Amedeo Mantica
hello, junt today I'm hearing WOInstaller, what is exactly? there is a  
webpage explaining?


Regards
Amedeo


On 08/lug/09, at 17:53, Joe Little wrote:


Currently?

With WO 5.4.x (I think all versions) you get the code through
development, and the license included therein states free to deploy
anywhere. Thus, you get it via Xcode (up to 5.4.2) or ADC (5.4.3) or
indirectly through the WOInstaller.jar for 5.4.3 and 5.3.3. I believe
there was still a license file requirement inside of 5.3.3 that came
with the package, but 5.4.x now ignores the license component. Its all
just legal wording at this point.

Others can chime in where I'm wrong.


On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Jon Nolanli...@lochgarman.com wrote:

Kieran Kelleher wrote:


The fact that it took apple this long to unshackle webobjects  
from OSX /

XCode is ridiculous.



Please forgive me if this is a stupid question but the answer seems  
to be
hush-hush - a bit like how we don't speak of why Uncle Tommy spent  
three
years in jail and is not allowed within 300 yards of elementary  
schools...


How does one get a legitimate, legal, show to God and everybody,  
overt, loud
and proud license for WebObjects deployment on non-OSX platforms?   
How will
one do so when WO is not bundled with an OS release?  Is there a  
Wiki I'm

missing?

Thanks,
Jon
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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 5:46 AM, William Hatch wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied  
to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more frequent  
releases of updates to the frameworks.


seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into  
the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully it  
means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment that  
virtually nobody uses


???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.


Chuck


and focus on the frameworks instead. I hate the thought of one more  
minute going into maintaining wotaskd, monitor and everything else  
that goes along with WebObjects as a stand alone application server.  
They should have done it long ago, and in all honesty, we should  
have been willing to let that go a long time ago, if it would have  
helped with resources inside apple devoted to developing WO.




--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Miguel Angel Torres Avila

You will find more info about ir here.

http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Using+WOLips+With+Multiple+Versions+of+WebObjects



On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:59 AM, Amedeo Mantica wrote:

hello, junt today I'm hearing WOInstaller, what is exactly? there is  
a webpage explaining?


Regards
Amedeo


On 08/lug/09, at 17:53, Joe Little wrote:


Currently?

With WO 5.4.x (I think all versions) you get the code through
development, and the license included therein states free to deploy
anywhere. Thus, you get it via Xcode (up to 5.4.2) or ADC (5.4.3) or
indirectly through the WOInstaller.jar for 5.4.3 and 5.3.3. I believe
there was still a license file requirement inside of 5.3.3 that came
with the package, but 5.4.x now ignores the license component. Its  
all

just legal wording at this point.

Others can chime in where I'm wrong.


On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Jon Nolanli...@lochgarman.com  
wrote:

Kieran Kelleher wrote:


The fact that it took apple this long to unshackle webobjects  
from OSX /

XCode is ridiculous.



Please forgive me if this is a stupid question but the answer  
seems to be
hush-hush - a bit like how we don't speak of why Uncle Tommy spent  
three
years in jail and is not allowed within 300 yards of elementary  
schools...


How does one get a legitimate, legal, show to God and everybody,  
overt, loud
and proud license for WebObjects deployment on non-OSX platforms?   
How will
one do so when WO is not bundled with an OS release?  Is there a  
Wiki I'm

missing?

Thanks,
Jon
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Ing. Miguel Angel Torres Avila





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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Mark Morris

On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 5:46 AM, William Hatch wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied  
to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more  
frequent releases of updates to the frameworks.


seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into  
the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully  
it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment  
that virtually nobody uses


???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.


Chuck


I'm glad someone else said it.  I thought perhaps I was just out of  
touch!


-- Mark



and focus on the frameworks instead. I hate the thought of one more  
minute going into maintaining wotaskd, monitor and everything else  
that goes along with WebObjects as a stand alone application  
server. They should have done it long ago, and in all honesty, we  
should have been willing to let that go a long time ago, if it  
would have helped with resources inside apple devoted to developing  
WO.




--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects

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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Miguel Arroz

Hi!

On 2009/07/08, at 17:14, Mark Morris wrote:

???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.


Chuck


I'm glad someone else said it.  I thought perhaps I was just out of  
touch!


-- Mark


  Surveys say so, I think. Pascal?

  Yours

Miguel Arroz




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied  
to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more  
frequent releases of updates to the frameworks.


seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into  
the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully  
it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment  
that virtually nobody uses


???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.
I started to respond w/ the same thing but lost energy :)  Doing  
multiple instances with tomcat deployments is sort of a pain  
comparatively.  That said, future versions of webobjects will make  
this entire process much better.


ms

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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Pascal Robert


Le 09-07-08 à 12:32, Miguel Arroz a écrit :


Hi!

On 2009/07/08, at 17:14, Mark Morris wrote:

???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.


Chuck


I'm glad someone else said it.  I thought perhaps I was just out of  
touch!


-- Mark


 Surveys say so, I think. Pascal?


http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOCOM/WO+Community+2008+surveys+results

Does your organization deploy WebObjects applications in a J2EE  
container (Tomcat, Jboss, etc.)?


Yes, all of our applications are deployed in a J2EE container   6%
Yes, some of our applications are deployed in a J2EE container  20%
No, we never deploy applications in a J2EE environment  74%

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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread William Hatch


Bill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 5:46 AM, William Hatch wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be tied  
to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more  
frequent releases of updates to the frameworks.


seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into  
the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully  
it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment  
that virtually nobody uses


???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.


Definitely, and my point is/was that perhaps if there weren't  
resources going into maintaining a deployment option that the rest of  
the world doesn't really use or care about, maybe it would help on  
what I would consider to be the more important aspect of WO, that  
being as a development framework. And, also, if deploying war didn't  
totally suck ass for the most part, perhaps others wouldn't be so  
reticent and apprehensive about deploying WO. Seriously, the bottom  
line is that problems deploying in a standard container like tomcat  
are certainly not helping the cause any. I personally could absolutely  
not care less about wotaskd and monitor, and given that there's  
another option that's much more ubiquitous, I further propose that the  
rest of us adopt the same attitude.


Chuck


and focus on the frameworks instead. I hate the thought of one more  
minute going into maintaining wotaskd, monitor and everything else  
that goes along with WebObjects as a stand alone application  
server. They should have done it long ago, and in all honesty, we  
should have been willing to let that go a long time ago, if it  
would have helped with resources inside apple devoted to developing  
WO.




--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects








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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread William Hatch



Yes, all of our applications are deployed in a J2EE container   6%
Yes, some of our applications are deployed in a J2EE container  20%
No, we never deploy applications in a J2EE environment  74%


Yes, absolutely, and preaching to the choir is doing nothing for us all.



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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread William Hatch
Ahh, that's the ticket. Thanks David.  I wouldn't have expected it to  
be coming from one of core frameworks given the outstanding nature of  
support for war deployments


Bill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 9:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:


Hi Bill,

I feel your WOServletAdaptor Unavailable pain. It sucks and it's  
never the same problem twice.


Take JavaXML.framework out of your build path and then add back  
anything you specifically need in your project individually.


Dave

On Jul 7, 2009, at 11:35 PM, William Hatch wrote:


WTF

I have three apps, all deployed under the same container. they all  
have the same classpaths. two of them deploy, one does not with  
that miserable, make-you-want-to-kill error WOServletAdaptor  
Unavailable All of these are built on a remote host using ant  
from the shell on a CentOS box. That part works fine. In a recent  
post, Mike makes mention of this jar hosing you, and I'd say it  
does, but not all the time. If you keep sudo touching the damned  
war, eventually it deploys. Why is this not a consistent error?   
What can be done to make this stop, and what can be done so that  
one can never have to speak it's name again? I mean clearly, you  
shouldn't have javaxml.jar in your classpath and all that, but is  
there an easy way to prevent it from getting there period? I'd  
rather suffer with some compiler errors up front if it'd help.  
Thanks for letting me vent...;-) My future hair line thanks you in  
advance for any solid suggestions that lead to a more serene place


Bill


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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Janine Sisk
While I completely agree with you, we discussed not long ago on this  
list that the way Apple worded it in the Snow Leopard documentation  
left a bit to be desired.  I can see how the author came to their  
conclusion, especially if they were looking for something to hype.   
This is exactly why I said I wish Apple was a bit more careful  
sometimes with how they word things


janine

On Jul 8, 2009, at 5:03 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote:


Hi!

 I did not comment on AppleInsider (and I'm not jlm808 :) ) but what  
gets my pissed off about journalists (these, and others) is the fact  
that they grab a few facts, and take stupid conclusions out of them.


 Yes, eventually, Snow Leopard won't include WO (these things were  
supposed to be under NDA, but yeah) which, as you said, and me,  
and many other people, is a good thing. But picking that up and  
writing that the company will drop deployment support for its  
WebObjects web application server in Mac OS X Snow Leopard Server  
is plain stupidity. There's a huge diference between not supported  
and not included on the default installation. It's the same as  
saying FreeBSD doesn't support Apache server because it doesn't come  
installed on the base installation. It's ridiculous.


 Anyway, moving on...

 Yours

Miguel Arroz

On 2009/07/08, at 06:14, Anjo Krank wrote:


Am 08.07.2009 um 03:55 schrieb Chuck Hill:


On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Ken Anderson wrote:


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/07/apple_to_drop_webobjects_in_snow_leopard_server.html



Nothing new there.  They even got most of the facts correct!  ;-)


WTF is that jlm808 id^H^H guy in the forums? Exactly this kind of  
language makes all of us look like a bunch of raving maniacs. Hey  
look! See that guy with the hunchback? That's one of the two WO  
devs left in the world.. Ohh, the poor unfortunate creature...


The article was totally ok, one might have mentioned that it is  
actually a good thing the standard install is gone (because update  
will fuck it up every so often, if I did ruby, I'd be horrified  
that Apple includes ROR), and it's only a deployment issue, not dev.


Cheers, Anjo
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---
Janine Sisk
President/CEO of furfly, LLC
503-693-6407




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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill

Hi Bill,

On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:16 AM, William Hatch wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 5:46 AM, William Hatch wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 7:04 AM, David Avendasora wrote:

Yeah, this is really good news. Now that WO releases won't be  
tied to OS X and Xcode releases, I'm betting we'll see far more  
frequent releases of updates to the frameworks.


seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made  
when, only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule  
back into the main development tools. I think it's good news, but  
hopefully it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary  
deployment that virtually nobody uses


???  I'd guest that the majority of WO projects are deployed like  
this.  Servlet deployment is a distant second.


Definitely, and my point is/was that perhaps if there weren't  
resources going into maintaining a deployment option that the rest  
of the world doesn't really use or care about, maybe it would help  
on what I would consider to be the more important aspect of WO, that  
being as a development framework. And, also, if deploying war didn't  
totally suck ass for the most part, perhaps others wouldn't be so  
reticent and apprehensive about deploying WO. Seriously, the bottom  
line is that problems deploying in a standard container like tomcat  
are certainly not helping the cause any. I personally could  
absolutely not care less about wotaskd and monitor, and given that  
there's another option that's much more ubiquitous, I further  
propose that the rest of us adopt the same attitude.


The rest of the world does not care about WO _or_ WO deployment.  I've  
always thought it was quite decent, give or take a few bugs in a few  
versions.  Sure, it is very sensitive to IP/DNS configuration and user  
error but Tomcat et al deployment also has its sensitive areas.  And  
isn't deployment of multiple instances via Tomcat a lot more work?  I  
never deploy a single instance.


While I agree that Apple should focus on the core frameworks, I would  
not like to see that happen as the result of having to use an inferior  
deployment system.  The only real advantage that I see for J2EE  
container deployment is that you can give the war to a deployment  
group who knows nothing about WO.  For me, that is not a compelling  
advantage in the majority of cases.



Chuck


and focus on the frameworks instead. I hate the thought of one  
more minute going into maintaining wotaskd, monitor and everything  
else that goes along with WebObjects as a stand alone application  
server. They should have done it long ago, and in all honesty, we  
should have been willing to let that go a long time ago, if it  
would have helped with resources inside apple devoted to  
developing WO.


--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread David Avendasora


On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:22 PM, William Hatch wrote:

I wouldn't have expected it to be coming from one of core frameworks  
given the outstanding nature of support for war deployments


WAR deployment is a piece of cake, unless it's broke, then it sucks,  
big time. :-/


Dave

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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:03 AM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:22 PM, William Hatch wrote:

I wouldn't have expected it to be coming from one of core  
frameworks given the outstanding nature of support for war  
deployments


WAR deployment is a piece of cake, unless it's broke, then it sucks,  
big time. :-/



That describes WO deployment in general.  In fact, that describes WO  
in general.


Chuck

--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:23 AM, David Holt wrote:



On 8-Jul-09, at 11:09 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:03 AM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:22 PM, William Hatch wrote:

I wouldn't have expected it to be coming from one of core  
frameworks given the outstanding nature of support for war  
deployments


WAR deployment is a piece of cake, unless it's broke, then it  
sucks, big time. :-/



That describes WO deployment in general.  In fact, that describes  
WO in general.


Why stop there? It pretty much defines life too :-)



Not all of life.  MS technology pretty much sucks even when it is not  
broken.



--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread David Holt


On 8-Jul-09, at 11:09 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:03 AM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:22 PM, William Hatch wrote:

I wouldn't have expected it to be coming from one of core  
frameworks given the outstanding nature of support for war  
deployments


WAR deployment is a piece of cake, unless it's broke, then it  
sucks, big time. :-/



That describes WO deployment in general.  In fact, that describes  
WO in general.


Why stop there? It pretty much defines life too :-)

David



Chuck

--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: javaxml.jar, war deploys, and sanity vs serenity

2009-07-08 Thread David Avendasora


On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:23 PM, David Holt wrote:



On 8-Jul-09, at 11:09 AM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:03 AM, David Avendasora wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:22 PM, William Hatch wrote:

I wouldn't have expected it to be coming from one of core  
frameworks given the outstanding nature of support for war  
deployments


WAR deployment is a piece of cake, unless it's broke, then it  
sucks, big time. :-/



That describes WO deployment in general.  In fact, that describes  
WO in general.


Why stop there? It pretty much defines life too :-)


I is a philosophizer.

Dave



David



Chuck

--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: Maintain server state of a page + Javascript page navigation

2009-07-08 Thread shravan kumar

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your response Mike. I hope you are referring to AjaxBusyIndicator 
in the Wonder/Ajax Examples for ping in the background.

As you say, Yes, if you bind to an action that falls out of the backtrack 
cache, you'll get that error. This can happen for several reasons., do we have 
any good solution to get away from this issue and keep all my elements/ actions 
in my component up-to-date?

Thank You,
Shravan Kumar. M

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 7:02 PM
From:
Mike Schrag msch...@mdimension.com
To:
WO Dev Group webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
Yes, if you bind to an action that falls out of the backtrack cache, you'll get 
that error. This can happen for several reasons.

Not sure what you mean about using component actions and direct actions freely. 
Component actions are powerful but just have intrinsic limitations. If you have 
a long running process on the client side that could reasonably run longer than 
your session timeout, you either have to keep the session alive with some sort 
of ping in the background (I think Ajax framework has a component for this), or 
you need to switch to direct actions.  DA's can fully access the session, but 
you have the same issue -- if your client process takes longer than your 
session lifetime, you're going to lose that information. In the DA case, that 
either means the same sort of ping process, or it means making your app 
stateless (i.e. client side tracks and passes in the current state).

ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:01 AM, shravan kumar wrote:

Thanks for your response Mike.

What is Giandiua btw? Google says it is a Chocolate from Italy!!!

The page am referring is just one of the pages of a wizard, which has 
sub-pages. The whole wizard runs through component actions.

I was actually about following situation:

When we have long response component displayed upon initiating a request, and 
we see long response until we have a response. Once after the response let's 
say I just hide long response component and show the main component, now user 
cannot perform any actions in this main component and we might receive errors 
like: You have exceeded 30 pages limit/ page out of cache... this is because 
the context bound to the action element is older. Am I correct (Mike) ?

I understand by your saying switching to direct actions, we can get away from 
this issue if we use direct actions. But am wondering if I can use component 
actions and direct actions freely. I hope I can validate whether the direct 
action request is initiated by a logged-in valid user, so my direct actions are 
not floating freely.

---

If I use component actions, can you advise me how can I have all the elements, 
app in the latest context?

Thank You,
Shravan Kumar. M
--


Monday, July 6, 2009 7:14 PM
From:
Mike Schrag msch...@mdimension.com
To:
WO Dev Group webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
seems to me like you're swimming against the tide here ... i think you need to 
rethink this architecture.  you're basically sending the users the entire site, 
which makes this more of a Sproutcore/Giandiua/etc workflow, and mixing 
component actions into this style of app is going to be very tricky. I would 
recommend switching to directactions. you could keep a session alive with a 
ping if you really need it to be sessionful, but trying to actually use WOForms 
in this thing is going to be an endless headache imo.
On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:54 AM, shravan kumar wrote:

 Hi Group,

 Could you please advise me a solution to achieve below functionality:

 Scenario:
 -

 I have a page which gets all the data like text content [3000 lines or more], 
 images info [about 500 or more] once when the user requests for this page.

 Once this data from the server has arrived, we will be displaying this whole 
 data part by part by splitting this data into sub-pages through javascript. 
 So, user actually sees the sub-page rather the whole page received from the 
 server.

 There can be around 40 sub-pages or more.

 While navigating through each of these sub-pages user may perform a server 
 action like edit some text and save, rotate an image and save, ... and all 
 these actions do not refresh the whole page/ sub-page (like we see in ajax 
 implementations) and just update a particular field.

 I assume that there might be some time-gap say 10 minutes or more between 
 each of the server actions performed by the user.

 During these times as you know, we have to maintain the session of this user 
 in the server (this can be achieved through lets say session timeout value), 
 state of this page in the server, ...

 Problem:
 -
 How can I maintain the state of this page (generally whenever we do a submit 
 WO app returns with a new context info, correct?), so all my actions are 
 valid and there are issues of Broken pipe/ page not in the cache/ ...

 I thought of just pinging the server every few 

Snow Leopard deployment

2009-07-08 Thread doug andrews

We have a developer seed of OSX 10.6, snow leopard.
It did not come pre-installed with a WebObjects deployment, but i've  
been trying install and deploy a WebObjects app anyway.
I installed the latest developer tools, and the latest WebObjects  
(5.4.3) deployment, and was able to get JavaMonitor up and running.


Our WO App works fine in direct connect mode, but I can't seem to  
access it using the normal cgi-bin/WebObjects url.


Whenever i try access a URL in the form of http://hostname/cgi-bin/ 
WebObjects/appname, the Apache2.2 web server throws an error.


The error in web server log is:
child pid  exit signal Segmentation fault (11)

Is there something wrong with my wo adaptor?
Has anyone tried WebObjects deployment on OS 10.6 yet, or seen this  
error before?


-Doug Andrews

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Re: Snow Leopard deployment

2009-07-08 Thread Pascal Robert
You are aware that the ADC forbids discussing seeds in a public  
mailing list?



We have a developer seed of OSX 10.6, snow leopard.
It did not come pre-installed with a WebObjects deployment, but i've  
been trying install and deploy a WebObjects app anyway.
I installed the latest developer tools, and the latest WebObjects  
(5.4.3) deployment, and was able to get JavaMonitor up and running.


Our WO App works fine in direct connect mode, but I can't seem to  
access it using the normal cgi-bin/WebObjects url.


Whenever i try access a URL in the form of http://hostname/cgi-bin/WebObjects/appname 
, the Apache2.2 web server throws an error.


The error in web server log is:
child pid  exit signal Segmentation fault (11)

Is there something wrong with my wo adaptor?
Has anyone tried WebObjects deployment on OS 10.6 yet, or seen this  
error before?


-Doug Andrews

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---
Pascal Robert

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Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Mr. Frank Cobia
I have created a WebObjects command line app (uses ERXMainRunner) that  
generates a report for each user (40,000+) on my system and it is  
running too slow. I have come up with two ways to optimize it and I  
was wondering which you thought is better.


The report uses a table (TableA) that has a lot of fields, most of  
which are not relevant to the report. It also has a Text field which  
could be rather large.


One option is to create TableAReport that points to the same database  
table, but only include the few (small) fields that I need for the  
report. I know the downside to this is that WebObjects can get  
confused when there are two entities pointing to the same data, but  
this command line app is only run once a day, it is read only and  
(hopefully) only runs for a few minutes.


The other is to go to raw row fetches, but I lose some of the nice EOF  
stuff like traversing relationships. (TableA has two relationship I  
use).


Any Advice?

Thanks,
Frank
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Re: Maintain server state of a page + Javascript page navigation

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
if you're keeping them on a single page for your entire process and  
rendering the wizard process in js, then you won't be transitioning  
across pages, so you won't be burning your cache. at that point, all  
that matters is that your session is kept alive. AjaxBusyIndicator  
doesn't ping -- it just shows a spinner when an ajax function is  
occurring ... AjaxPing (iirc) is the component you want?  I'm not in  
that workspace right now, so I don't have it handy ...


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:37 PM, shravan kumar wrote:



Hi Mike,

Thanks for your response Mike. I hope you are referring to  
AjaxBusyIndicator in the Wonder/Ajax Examples for ping in the  
background.


As you say, Yes, if you bind to an action that falls out of the  
backtrack cache, you'll get that error. This can happen for several  
reasons., do we have any good solution to get away from this issue  
and keep all my elements/ actions in my component up-to-date?


Thank You,
Shravan Kumar. M

Wednesday, July 8, 2009 7:02 PM
From:
Mike Schrag msch...@mdimension.com
To:
WO Dev Group webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
Yes, if you bind to an action that falls out of the backtrack cache,  
you'll get that error. This can happen for several reasons.


Not sure what you mean about using component actions and direct  
actions freely. Component actions are powerful but just have  
intrinsic limitations. If you have a long running process on the  
client side that could reasonably run longer than your session  
timeout, you either have to keep the session alive with some sort of  
ping in the background (I think Ajax framework has a component for  
this), or you need to switch to direct actions.  DA's can fully  
access the session, but you have the same issue -- if your client  
process takes longer than your session lifetime, you're going to  
lose that information. In the DA case, that either means the same  
sort of ping process, or it means making your app stateless (i.e.  
client side tracks and passes in the current state).


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:01 AM, shravan kumar wrote:

Thanks for your response Mike.

What is Giandiua btw? Google says it is a Chocolate from Italy!!!

The page am referring is just one of the pages of a wizard, which  
has sub-pages. The whole wizard runs through component actions.


I was actually about following situation:

When we have long response component displayed upon initiating a  
request, and we see long response until we have a response. Once  
after the response let's say I just hide long response component and  
show the main component, now user cannot perform any actions in this  
main component and we might receive errors like: You have exceeded  
30 pages limit/ page out of cache... this is because the context  
bound to the action element is older. Am I correct (Mike) ?


I understand by your saying switching to direct actions, we can get  
away from this issue if we use direct actions. But am wondering if I  
can use component actions and direct actions freely. I hope I can  
validate whether the direct action request is initiated by a logged- 
in valid user, so my direct actions are not floating freely.


---

If I use component actions, can you advise me how can I have all the  
elements, app in the latest context?


Thank You,
Shravan Kumar. M
--


Monday, July 6, 2009 7:14 PM
From:
Mike Schrag msch...@mdimension.com
To:
WO Dev Group webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com
seems to me like you're swimming against the tide here ... i think  
you need to rethink this architecture.  you're basically sending the  
users the entire site, which makes this more of a Sproutcore/ 
Giandiua/etc workflow, and mixing component actions into this style  
of app is going to be very tricky. I would recommend switching to  
directactions. you could keep a session alive with a ping if you  
really need it to be sessionful, but trying to actually use WOForms  
in this thing is going to be an endless headache imo.

On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:54 AM, shravan kumar wrote:

 Hi Group,

 Could you please advise me a solution to achieve below  
functionality:


 Scenario:
 -

 I have a page which gets all the data like text content [3000  
lines or more], images info [about 500 or more] once when the user  
requests for this page.


 Once this data from the server has arrived, we will be displaying  
this whole data part by part by splitting this data into sub-pages  
through javascript. So, user actually sees the sub-page rather the  
whole page received from the server.


 There can be around 40 sub-pages or more.

 While navigating through each of these sub-pages user may perform  
a server action like edit some text and save, rotate an image and  
save, ... and all these actions do not refresh the whole page/ sub- 
page (like we see in ajax implementations) and just update a  
particular field.


 I assume that there might be some 

Re: Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
speaking without knowledge of any specifics of your app, it's  
generally number of roundtrips that is the big performance killer  
rather than the number of columns that come back, unless you have an  
especially large number of columns that have especially large data ...  
if it's #2, and this is just reporting, i would recommend making some  
custom views that only pull back what you need and make new eo's that  
sit on top of those views.  my first thought is that you're probably  
not prefetching effectively, but that's a completely naive comment  --  
just what screws most people for performance.  Turn on sql debug and  
do you see a ton of faults of to-one's and to-many's?  if so, those  
are prime candidates for ERXBatchFetchUtilities to prefetch them in  
bulk.  if the fetches you see are appropriately faulting, only THEN  
would i start to look at other things like column counts and raw rows.


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Mr. Frank Cobia wrote:

I have created a WebObjects command line app (uses ERXMainRunner)  
that generates a report for each user (40,000+) on my system and it  
is running too slow. I have come up with two ways to optimize it and  
I was wondering which you thought is better.


The report uses a table (TableA) that has a lot of fields, most of  
which are not relevant to the report. It also has a Text field which  
could be rather large.


One option is to create TableAReport that points to the same  
database table, but only include the few (small) fields that I need  
for the report. I know the downside to this is that WebObjects can  
get confused when there are two entities pointing to the same data,  
but this command line app is only run once a day, it is read only  
and (hopefully) only runs for a few minutes.


The other is to go to raw row fetches, but I lose some of the nice  
EOF stuff like traversing relationships. (TableA has two  
relationship I use).


Any Advice?

Thanks,
Frank
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Re: Snow Leopard deployment

2009-07-08 Thread doug andrews

Sorry, didn't know that.


On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:

You are aware that the ADC forbids discussing seeds in a public  
mailing list?



We have a developer seed of OSX 10.6, snow leopard.
It did not come pre-installed with a WebObjects deployment, but  
i've been trying install and deploy a WebObjects app anyway.
I installed the latest developer tools, and the latest WebObjects  
(5.4.3) deployment, and was able to get JavaMonitor up and running.


Our WO App works fine in direct connect mode, but I can't seem to  
access it using the normal cgi-bin/WebObjects url.


Whenever i try access a URL in the form of http://hostname/cgi-bin/ 
WebObjects/appname, the Apache2.2 web server throws an error.


The error in web server log is:
child pid  exit signal Segmentation fault (11)

Is there something wrong with my wo adaptor?
Has anyone tried WebObjects deployment on OS 10.6 yet, or seen  
this error before?


-Doug Andrews

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Skype | Twitter | AIM/iChat : MacTICanada



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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Nowak
Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no, should we  
stop using WebObjects?


On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Janine Sisk wrote:

While I completely agree with you, we discussed not long ago on this  
list that the way Apple worded it in the Snow Leopard documentation  
left a bit to be desired.  I can see how the author came to their  
conclusion, especially if they were looking for something to hype.   
This is exactly why I said I wish Apple was a bit more careful  
sometimes with how they word things


janine


--
Mike Nowak
Center for Health Communications Research
The University of Michigan
http://chcr.umich.edu

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Re: Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Mr. Frank Cobia
There are definitely a lot of fetches since the reports are custom to  
each user and there are more than 40,000 users, but the fetch does  
indeed pull a lot of rows and each row has a large text description  
that I am not using.


I am using prefetching for the two relationships I use, but I am using  
the prefetching on ERXFetchSpecification. I have not looked at  
ERXBatchFetchUtilities. I will take a look at that.


Is there any advantage to creating a view and pointing my new entity  
to that view as opposed to just pointing the entity directly to the  
table and leaving out the fields I am not interested in? It seems like  
the view would just add overhead, but you may know some advantage to  
using it that I am not aware of.


Thanks,
Frank


On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

speaking without knowledge of any specifics of your app, it's  
generally number of roundtrips that is the big performance killer  
rather than the number of columns that come back, unless you have an  
especially large number of columns that have especially large  
data ... if it's #2, and this is just reporting, i would recommend  
making some custom views that only pull back what you need and make  
new eo's that sit on top of those views.  my first thought is that  
you're probably not prefetching effectively, but that's a completely  
naive comment  -- just what screws most people for performance.   
Turn on sql debug and do you see a ton of faults of to-one's and to- 
many's?  if so, those are prime candidates for  
ERXBatchFetchUtilities to prefetch them in bulk.  if the fetches you  
see are appropriately faulting, only THEN would i start to look at  
other things like column counts and raw rows.


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Mr. Frank Cobia wrote:

I have created a WebObjects command line app (uses ERXMainRunner)  
that generates a report for each user (40,000+) on my system and it  
is running too slow. I have come up with two ways to optimize it  
and I was wondering which you thought is better.


The report uses a table (TableA) that has a lot of fields, most of  
which are not relevant to the report. It also has a Text field  
which could be rather large.


One option is to create TableAReport that points to the same  
database table, but only include the few (small) fields that I need  
for the report. I know the downside to this is that WebObjects can  
get confused when there are two entities pointing to the same data,  
but this command line app is only run once a day, it is read only  
and (hopefully) only runs for a few minutes.


The other is to go to raw row fetches, but I lose some of the nice  
EOF stuff like traversing relationships. (TableA has two  
relationship I use).


Any Advice?

Thanks,
Frank
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Re: Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
Is there any advantage to creating a view and pointing my new entity  
to that view as opposed to just pointing the entity directly to the  
table and leaving out the fields I am not interested in? It seems  
like the view would just add overhead, but you may know some  
advantage to using it that I am not aware of.
Oh, if you NEVER use the fields, then by all means, just remove them  
from your entity definition (assuming they're not NOT NULL fields).


ms

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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Mike Nowak wrote:

Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no, should  
we stop using WebObjects?


No, you should NOT stop using WebObjects.  Remember Radar O'Reilly on  
M*A*S*H?  Wait for it



Chuck




On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Janine Sisk wrote:

While I completely agree with you, we discussed not long ago on  
this list that the way Apple worded it in the Snow Leopard  
documentation left a bit to be desired.  I can see how the author  
came to their conclusion, especially if they were looking for  
something to hype.  This is exactly why I said I wish Apple was a  
bit more careful sometimes with how they word things


janine


--
Mike Nowak
Center for Health Communications Research
The University of Michigan
http://chcr.umich.edu

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--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Mr. Frank Cobia
Sorry. I meant never use them in the report or the command line  
application. They are used by my web apps.


Frank


On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

Is there any advantage to creating a view and pointing my new  
entity to that view as opposed to just pointing the entity directly  
to the table and leaving out the fields I am not interested in? It  
seems like the view would just add overhead, but you may know some  
advantage to using it that I am not aware of.
Oh, if you NEVER use the fields, then by all means, just remove them  
from your entity definition (assuming they're not NOT NULL fields).


ms

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Re: Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
Yeah you could setup a Report EOModel that has a different entity  
definition on the same table, too.  The view approach potentially  
makes it a little easier to define fancier queries that you can just  
treat like a regular (non-editable) EO.


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Mr. Frank Cobia wrote:

Sorry. I meant never use them in the report or the command line  
application. They are used by my web apps.


Frank


On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:34 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

Is there any advantage to creating a view and pointing my new  
entity to that view as opposed to just pointing the entity  
directly to the table and leaving out the fields I am not  
interested in? It seems like the view would just add overhead, but  
you may know some advantage to using it that I am not aware of.
Oh, if you NEVER use the fields, then by all means, just remove  
them from your entity definition (assuming they're not NOT NULL  
fields).


ms

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Re: Fetch Optimization Advice

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill
To paraphrase Mike, you really need to discover _why_ it is slow  
before you can start to address how to make it faster.  If you just  
guess at what might be wrong, you are likely to expend a lot of effort  
to little avail.  Knowledge is key in optimization.


Chuck


On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

speaking without knowledge of any specifics of your app, it's  
generally number of roundtrips that is the big performance killer  
rather than the number of columns that come back, unless you have an  
especially large number of columns that have especially large  
data ... if it's #2, and this is just reporting, i would recommend  
making some custom views that only pull back what you need and make  
new eo's that sit on top of those views.  my first thought is that  
you're probably not prefetching effectively, but that's a completely  
naive comment  -- just what screws most people for performance.   
Turn on sql debug and do you see a ton of faults of to-one's and to- 
many's?  if so, those are prime candidates for  
ERXBatchFetchUtilities to prefetch them in bulk.  if the fetches you  
see are appropriately faulting, only THEN would i start to look at  
other things like column counts and raw rows.


ms

On Jul 8, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Mr. Frank Cobia wrote:

I have created a WebObjects command line app (uses ERXMainRunner)  
that generates a report for each user (40,000+) on my system and it  
is running too slow. I have come up with two ways to optimize it  
and I was wondering which you thought is better.


The report uses a table (TableA) that has a lot of fields, most of  
which are not relevant to the report. It also has a Text field  
which could be rather large.


One option is to create TableAReport that points to the same  
database table, but only include the few (small) fields that I need  
for the report. I know the downside to this is that WebObjects can  
get confused when there are two entities pointing to the same data,  
but this command line app is only run once a day, it is read only  
and (hopefully) only runs for a few minutes.


The other is to go to raw row fetches, but I lose some of the nice  
EOF stuff like traversing relationships. (TableA has two  
relationship I use).


Any Advice?

Thanks,
Frank
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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Klaus Berkling


On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Mike Nowak wrote:

Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no, should  
we stop using WebObjects?


No, you should NOT stop using WebObjects.  Remember Radar O'Reilly  
on M*A*S*H?  Wait for it


Yup, already prepared my boss for this preemptively.

Waiting patiently - mainly to see if I want/need to write any  
deployment tools.






Chuck




On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Janine Sisk wrote:

While I completely agree with you, we discussed not long ago on  
this list that the way Apple worded it in the Snow Leopard  
documentation left a bit to be desired.  I can see how the author  
came to their conclusion, especially if they were looking for  
something to hype.  This is exactly why I said I wish Apple was a  
bit more careful sometimes with how they word things


janine


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The University of Michigan
http://chcr.umich.edu

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problems.

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Thanks

kib

We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things,  
because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.

Walt Disney

Klaus Berkling
Systems Administrator
DynEd International, Inc.
www.dyned.com | www.eskimo.com/~kiberkli




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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Klaus Berkling wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Mike Nowak wrote:

Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no, should  
we stop using WebObjects?


No, you should NOT stop using WebObjects.  Remember Radar O'Reilly  
on M*A*S*H?  Wait for it


Yup, already prepared my boss for this preemptively.

Waiting patiently - mainly to see if I want/need to write any  
deployment tools.


Versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor (based on source released by  
Apple) are in Wonder.  I use them (though not yet in a heavy  
production environment).  Adding an installer would be useful.



Chuck



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Janine Sisk wrote:

While I completely agree with you, we discussed not long ago on  
this list that the way Apple worded it in the Snow Leopard  
documentation left a bit to be desired.  I can see how the author  
came to their conclusion, especially if they were looking for  
something to hype.  This is exactly why I said I wish Apple was a  
bit more careful sometimes with how they word things


janine


--
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Center for Health Communications Research
The University of Michigan
http://chcr.umich.edu

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Thanks

kib

We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things,  
because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.

Walt Disney

Klaus Berkling
Systems Administrator
DynEd International, Inc.
www.dyned.com | www.eskimo.com/~kiberkli




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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Guido Neitzer

On Jul 8, 2009, at 5:46 AM, William Hatch wrote:

seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into  
the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully it  
means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment that  
virtually nobody uses and focus on the frameworks instead.


Oh, you mean that deployment style virtually everybody but a few folks  
are using should be dropped?


cug
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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Klaus Berkling


On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Klaus Berkling wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:



On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Mike Nowak wrote:

Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no,  
should we stop using WebObjects?


No, you should NOT stop using WebObjects.  Remember Radar O'Reilly  
on M*A*S*H?  Wait for it


Yup, already prepared my boss for this preemptively.

Waiting patiently - mainly to see if I want/need to write any  
deployment tools.


Versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor (based on source released by  
Apple) are in Wonder.  I use them (though not yet in a heavy  
production environment).  Adding an installer would be useful.


Yes, and not that hard to do.  Maybe it would be possible to  
redistribute WebObjects as well when the waiting is done (well,  
probably not).

I already deploy my woapps as packages (via ARD).

Thanks

kib

Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to  
continue that counts.

Winston Churchill

Klaus Berkling
Systems Administrator
DynEd International, Inc.
www.dyned.com | www.eskimo.com/~kiberkli



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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill

On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Klaus Berkling wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Klaus Berkling wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Mike Nowak wrote:

Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no,  
should we stop using WebObjects?


No, you should NOT stop using WebObjects.  Remember Radar  
O'Reilly on M*A*S*H?  Wait for it


Yup, already prepared my boss for this preemptively.

Waiting patiently - mainly to see if I want/need to write any  
deployment tools.


Versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor (based on source released by  
Apple) are in Wonder.  I use them (though not yet in a heavy  
production environment).  Adding an installer would be useful.


Yes, and not that hard to do.  Maybe it would be possible to  
redistribute WebObjects as well when the waiting is done (well,  
probably not).

I already deploy my woapps as packages (via ARD).



The current license allows you to redistribute WebObjects as part of  
an application, but ONLY for the purposes of running that application  
(i.e. you can't extract it and use it to develop a new WO app).


I have no idea what changes may appear in future licensing.  I very  
much doubt that Apple will make them more restrictive.



Chuck

--
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Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made when,  
only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule back into  
the main development tools. I think it's good news, but hopefully  
it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary deployment  
that virtually nobody uses and focus on the frameworks instead.
Oh, you mean that deployment style virtually everybody but a few  
folks are using should be dropped?
I've since reinterpreted Bill's comment to mean everyone in the world  
of java not everyone in the world of wo ... And I would agree with  
that, and there are technologies that are actually very similar to  
pieces of the WO deployment system that would be worth investigating  
to find the ideal solution to this problem.  We're really in no  
different of a position than something like Rails is, except that we  
actually have a nice gui for managing clustering whereas everyone  
else is hand editing apache files.  If you look at modern rails  
deployment, you'll find a pretty similar progression to what WO has  
(cgi, fast cgi, mod_proxy_balancer, custom apache module, etc). I  
don't think deploying in a J2EE container is necessarily the best  
solution, and in fact makes deployment HARDER in many cases (it's kind  
of nice that you can just run your main method and get a running  
server ... there's a lot of value in that that should not be  
discounted).  I would love to see war deployment not suck and be less  
clunky -- I think switching to jar frameworks probably makes a lot  
more sense for j2ee deployment, for instance.


I've said it before -- Our zero state story is crappy: how do you get  
wo, how do you start making wo apps, how do you launch them, how do  
you debug them, how do you deploy wo, what if you are deploying to an  
environment that doesn't have wo installed.  Once you get your  
environment going, these things ooossttllly sort of kind of work  
right. But getting from zero to there sucks, and I believe every  
single one of those can be made better.


ms

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ARS Technica: WebObjects sliced from 10.6 —but prognosis of death premature

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill

Finally, something worth reading!


http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/07/webobjects-sliced-from-106but-prognosis-of-death-premature.ars


--  
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development


Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
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problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: ARS Technica: WebObjects sliced from 10 .6—but prognosis of death premature

2009-07-08 Thread David Holt
Nice job, guys. I'm impressed. Now if only the Appleinsider article  
would link directly to there instead of the original article!


David


On 8-Jul-09, at 3:15 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:


Finally, something worth reading!


http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/07/webobjects-sliced- 
from-106but-prognosis-of-death-premature.ars



-- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Chuck Hill


On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:09 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made  
when, only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule  
back into the main development tools. I think it's good news, but  
hopefully it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary  
deployment that virtually nobody uses and focus on the frameworks  
instead.
Oh, you mean that deployment style virtually everybody but a few  
folks are using should be dropped?
I've since reinterpreted Bill's comment to mean everyone in the  
world of java not everyone in the world of wo ... And I would  
agree with that, and there are technologies that are actually very  
similar to pieces of the WO deployment system that would be worth  
investigating to find the ideal solution to this problem.


Yes, I'll not argue that the current system is ideal!  Or that we  
can't usefully leverage some of the other technology out there.  Like  
you, I am not convinced that a J2EE container is a better solution.   
It is certainly a valid solution and makes it much, much easier to  
find cheap commercial hosting.



 We're really in no different of a position than something like  
Rails is, except that we actually have a nice gui for managing  
clustering whereas everyone else is hand editing apache files.  If  
you look at modern rails deployment, you'll find a pretty similar  
progression to what WO has (cgi, fast cgi, mod_proxy_balancer,  
custom apache module, etc). I don't think deploying in a J2EE  
container is necessarily the best solution, and in fact makes  
deployment HARDER in many cases (it's kind of nice that you can just  
run your main method and get a running server ... there's a lot of  
value in that that should not be discounted).  I would love to see  
war deployment not suck and be less clunky -- I think switching to  
jar frameworks probably makes a lot more sense for j2ee deployment,  
for instance.


I've said it before -- Our zero state story is crappy: how do you  
get wo, how do you start making wo apps, how do you launch them, how  
do you debug them, how do you deploy wo, what if you are deploying  
to an environment that doesn't have wo installed.  Once you get your  
environment going, these things ooossttllly sort of kind of work  
right. But getting from zero to there sucks, and I believe every  
single one of those can be made better.



No argument from me on any of that!  I just wish that I had more time  
to devote to it.


Chuck

--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development

Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their  
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific  
problems.

http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: And the beat goes on...

2009-07-08 Thread Joe Little
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Chuck Hillch...@global-village.net wrote:
 On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Klaus Berkling wrote:

 On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

 On Jul 8, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Klaus Berkling wrote:

 On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

 On Jul 8, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Mike Nowak wrote:

 Right because then my boss sees the article and says oh no, should we
 stop using WebObjects?

 No, you should NOT stop using WebObjects.  Remember Radar O'Reilly on
 M*A*S*H?  Wait for it

 Yup, already prepared my boss for this preemptively.

 Waiting patiently - mainly to see if I want/need to write any deployment
 tools.

 Versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor (based on source released by Apple)
 are in Wonder.  I use them (though not yet in a heavy production
 environment).  Adding an installer would be useful.

 Yes, and not that hard to do.  Maybe it would be possible to redistribute
 WebObjects as well when the waiting is done (well, probably not).
 I already deploy my woapps as packages (via ARD).


 The current license allows you to redistribute WebObjects as part of an
 application, but ONLY for the purposes of running that application (i.e. you
 can't extract it and use it to develop a new WO app).

 I have no idea what changes may appear in future licensing.  I very much
 doubt that Apple will make them more restrictive.



Nothing stops one from redistributing JavaMonitor/wotaskd etc. I think
they still depend of course on the WO runtime, but I've been meaning
to make at list rpm/deb linux installables of those two things that
just depend on apache/java and so perhaps make deployment as easy as
insert chosen WO runtime in this directory.


 Chuck

 --
 Chuck Hill             Senior Consultant / VP Development

 Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall
 knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
 http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects






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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Guido Neitzer

On 8. Jul. 2009, at 15:09 , Mike Schrag wrote:

seriously? I remember the exact inverse statements being made  
when, only four-ish years ago, they tied WO's release schedule  
back into the main development tools. I think it's good news, but  
hopefully it means that they'll stop developing their unnecessary  
deployment that virtually nobody uses and focus on the frameworks  
instead.
Oh, you mean that deployment style virtually everybody but a few  
folks are using should be dropped?
I've since reinterpreted Bill's comment to mean everyone in the  
world of java not everyone in the world of wo ... And I would  
agree with that,


Somehow - with that, yeah, it's possible to agree, if there were a  
better solution. But is J2EE a better solution? I don't think so.


I would love to see war deployment not suck and be less clunky -- I  
think switching to jar frameworks probably makes a lot more sense  
for j2ee deployment, for instance.


Right, but the problem here is not war deployment, because the really  
clunky parts are the J2EE app servers. This is another layer of  
complexity which sucks even more than the traditional style.


cug
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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Andrew Lindesay

Hi Mike;

I spent a bit of time on this a few years ago and developed (and open- 
sourced) an AJP WO adaptor (AJP is a binary stream for HTTP used  
widely with Jetty and Tomcat deployment) to work with the built-in  
Apache 2.2 mod_balancer / mod_ajp / mod_proxy / mod_???.  It worked  
really well, but after a while, one comes to realise that the bits  
missing out of the Apache 2.2 mod_balancer approach which are  
present in JavaMonitor / wotaskd are really quite nice. :)


Given how close mod_balancer is to the traditional WO deployment, it  
might be a nice approach for mod_balancer to take on-board the few  
additional concepts necessary to support something which works like  
JavaMonitor / wotaskd so that deploying a WO system does not need a  
special Apache module compiled for it.  That would make a whole heap  
of documentation and confusion go away.


Another thought which may reduce the deployment documentation/ 
development overhead and ease-of-approach for newbies is that WOA's  
could be built into servlets all the time, but that there is a  
special servlet container built into WO runtime that can launch the  
app in a way which resembles a stand-alone execution of the  
application without the palaver that often goes with servlet  
deployments.  This idea may be quite nice.


Anyway... just ideas.

cheers.

I've since reinterpreted Bill's comment to mean everyone in the  
world of java not everyone in the world of wo ... And I would  
agree with that, and there are technologies that are actually very  
similar to pieces of the WO deployment system that would be worth  
investigating to find the ideal solution to this problem.


___
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www.lindesay.co.nz

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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Mike Schrag
Given how close mod_balancer is to the traditional WO deployment,  
it might be a nice approach for mod_balancer to take on-board the  
few additional concepts necessary to support something which works  
like JavaMonitor / wotaskd so that deploying a WO system does not  
need a special Apache module compiled for it.  That would make a  
whole heap of documentation and confusion go away.
Yeah, this is actually exactly what I referring to :)  Something like  
we're used to with JavaMonitor controlling the proxy balancer module  
would be very handy.


Another thought which may reduce the deployment documentation/ 
development overhead and ease-of-approach for newbies is that WOA's  
could be built into servlets all the time, but that there is a  
special servlet container built into WO runtime that can launch  
the app in a way which resembles a stand-alone execution of the  
application without the palaver that often goes with servlet  
deployments.  This idea may be quite nice.
So are you suggesting that WO should ALWAYS be running as a servlet,  
just that WO itself has a tiny little servletish container in it that  
it uses for directconnect?


ms

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Re: A WebObjects article on Appleinsider

2009-07-08 Thread Andrew Lindesay

Hi Mike;

Given how close mod_balancer is to the traditional WO deployment,  
it might be a nice approach for mod_balancer to take on-board the  
few additional concepts necessary to support something which works  
like JavaMonitor / wotaskd so that deploying a WO system does not  
need a special Apache module compiled for it.  That would make a  
whole heap of documentation and confusion go away.

Yeah, this is actually exactly what I referring to :)


I guess it's the obvious thing to do. :)

Something like we're used to with JavaMonitor controlling the proxy  
balancer module would be very handy.


mod_balancer needs to be able to socket-connect to an external  
system (like wotaskd) to get the list of instances to 'balance over'.   
I'm sure you know that there is an HTML interface called balancer  
manager in mod_balancer, but of course it has no ability to start the  
running instances on remote hosts and is.. well... not that great.   
Ping and shutdown are supported as part of the AJP protocol (at  
least AJP13) and I think that refuse new sessions should perhaps be  
handled on the mod_balancer rather than the instance.


Another thought which may reduce the deployment documentation/ 
development overhead and ease-of-approach for newbies is that WOA's  
could be built into servlets all the time, but that there is a  
special servlet container built into WO runtime that can launch  
the app in a way which resembles a stand-alone execution of the  
application without the palaver that often goes with servlet  
deployments.  This idea may be quite nice.
So are you suggesting that WO should ALWAYS be running as a servlet,  
just that WO itself has a tiny little servletish container in it  
that it uses for directconnect?


In short; Yes! :)  An important aspect of such a change would be to  
make that tiny little servletish container nice and simple to run,  
but still do the bare minimum to feed a servlet with WOMessage-s from  
HTTP or AJP and fudge the URL-s for mod_balancer (see  
LEWOAJPContext).  BTW; still happy to push my the AJP adaptor  
framework into ProjectWonder instead of my distro if you want.


cheers.

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Andrew Lindesay
www.lindesay.co.nz

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