[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #29 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to billinghurst from comment #28)
 At this point, the bug request to me appears to be for the multiple items,
 so if there is a change to the bug request to the autopatrolled only, I
 would feel that it would be considered acceptable. There would be the need
 to identify who can assign autopatrolled status, is it 'crats, or admins and
 crats, that has not been identified in this request.

I am agree with you for autopatrolled status. Can for the Autopatroll group
adding and removing bureaucrats and administrators? 

Do autopatrollers can have rollback and patrol right?

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #30 from Vogone leon.liese...@wikipedia.de ---
(In reply to Kolega2357 from comment #29)
 (In reply to billinghurst from comment #28)
  At this point, the bug request to me appears to be for the multiple items,
  so if there is a change to the bug request to the autopatrolled only, I
  would feel that it would be considered acceptable. There would be the need
  to identify who can assign autopatrolled status, is it 'crats, or admins and
  crats, that has not been identified in this request.
 
 I am agree with you for autopatrolled status. Can for the Autopatroll group
 adding and removing bureaucrats and administrators? 
 
 Do autopatrollers can have rollback and patrol right?

It shouldn't be a problem to assign any of these two rights to that group but
it would require consensus. About who can add/remove users to the group as well
as about whether that group should include additional minor rights which
every non-vandal should be allowed to use. If you can link to an onwiki
discussion where these two issues were discussed this bug can be fulfilled, I
guess.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|community-consensus-needed  |
 Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #25 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
Stewards reviewed this and do not believe that there is a community consensus,
nor that the community has sufficient active users to reach such a valid
consensus, especially when based upon a conversation based on patriotic
competition rather than a demonstrated need.

Server: sh.wiktionary.org
No. of pages: 850,497
No. of articles: 849,245
No. of edits: 1,301,882
No. of users: 1,591
No. of active users: 16  (and noting that 4 of these are bots)
No. of group:autopatrolled: 0
No. in group:sysop: 5
No. in group:bureaucrat: 3
No. in group:oversight: 0
No. in group:checkuser: 0
No. in group:bot = 10

and if you have a look at the recent edit count
https://sh.wiktionary.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allusersauactiveusersauwitheditsonlyaulimit=500auprop=editcount

shows that all users that require the rollback right, have it, there is no
demonstrated need. They would be well suited to implement an autopatrolled
right.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #26 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to billinghurst from comment #25)
 Stewards reviewed this and do not believe that there is a community
 consensus, nor that the community has sufficient active users to reach such
 a valid consensus, especially when based upon a conversation based on
 patriotic competition rather than a demonstrated need.
 
 Server: sh.wiktionary.org
 No. of pages: 850,497
 No. of articles: 849,245
 No. of edits: 1,301,882
 No. of users: 1,591
 No. of active users: 16  (and noting that 4 of these are bots)
 No. of group:autopatrolled: 0
 No. in group:sysop: 5
 No. in group:bureaucrat: 3
 No. in group:oversight: 0
 No. in group:checkuser: 0
 No. in group:bot = 10
 
 and if you have a look at the recent edit count
 https://sh.wiktionary.org/w/api.
 php?action=querylist=allusersauactiveusersauwitheditsonlyaulimit=500aupr
 op=editcount
 
 shows that all users that require the rollback right, have it, there is no
 demonstrated need. They would be well suited to implement an autopatrolled
 right.

Can only autopatroler group for sh wiktionary?

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #27 from Vogone leon.liese...@wikipedia.de ---
(In reply to billinghurst from comment #25)
 Stewards reviewed this and do not believe that there is a community
 consensus, nor that the community has sufficient active users to reach such
 a valid consensus, especially when based upon a conversation based on
 patriotic competition rather than a demonstrated need.
 
 Server: sh.wiktionary.org
 No. of pages: 850,497
 No. of articles: 849,245
 No. of edits: 1,301,882
 No. of users: 1,591
 No. of active users: 16  (and noting that 4 of these are bots)
 No. of group:autopatrolled: 0
 No. in group:sysop: 5
 No. in group:bureaucrat: 3
 No. in group:oversight: 0
 No. in group:checkuser: 0
 No. in group:bot = 10
 
 and if you have a look at the recent edit count
 https://sh.wiktionary.org/w/api.
 php?action=querylist=allusersauactiveusersauwitheditsonlyaulimit=500aupr
 op=editcount
 
 shows that all users that require the rollback right, have it, there is no
 demonstrated need. They would be well suited to implement an autopatrolled
 right.

Since the request for autpatrolled is valid (though community consensus is
needed) according to you, I don't see how this bug is a WONTFIX …

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #28 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
At this point, the bug request to me appears to be for the multiple items, so
if there is a change to the bug request to the autopatrolled only, I would feel
that it would be considered acceptable. There would be the need to identify who
can assign autopatrolled status, is it 'crats, or admins and crats, that has
not been identified in this request.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-04-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

Vogone leon.liese...@wikipedia.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||community-consensus-needed
 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 CC||leon.liese...@wikipedia.de
 Resolution|WONTFIX |---
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #24 from Vogone leon.liese...@wikipedia.de ---
Reopened, added community-consensus-needed keyword.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-28 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #23 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
Shoot the messenger! Your argument more equates to I don't like it

Please support your statements with factual evidence, demonstrations of
inaccuracy of the statements, or a clear descriptive explanation of how the
proposed changes are for the extended benefit of the community, how they will
be used, etc.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

vitu...@it.wiki vituzzu.w...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||vituzzu.w...@gmail.com

--- Comment #8 from vitu...@it.wiki vituzzu.w...@gmail.com ---
About an half voters have no other (than votes themselves) contribs on that
wiki.

Those instruments are definitely an overkill for a wiki with, by now, a very
very slow recentchanges' page.

Since we already had lots of troubles from a poor flags-management (namely
hi.wiki's) case and that discussion has been definitely canvassed I suggest to
suspend fulfilling this request for at least ~6 months.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #9 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to vitu...@it.wiki from comment #8)
 About an half voters have no other (than votes themselves) contribs on that
 wiki.
 
 Those instruments are definitely an overkill for a wiki with, by now, a very
 very slow recentchanges' page.
 
 Since we already had lots of troubles from a poor flags-management (namely
 hi.wiki's) case and that discussion has been definitely canvassed I suggest
 to suspend fulfilling this request for at least ~6 months.

This is probably incorrectly. The community has voted for new user groups and
recent changes patrolling.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #10 from vitu...@it.wiki vituzzu.w...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Kolega2357 from comment #9)
 (In reply to vitu...@it.wiki from comment #8)
  About an half voters have no other (than votes themselves) contribs on that
  wiki.
  
  Those instruments are definitely an overkill for a wiki with, by now, a very
  very slow recentchanges' page.
  
  Since we already had lots of troubles from a poor flags-management (namely
  hi.wiki's) case and that discussion has been definitely canvassed I suggest
  to suspend fulfilling this request for at least ~6 months.
 
 This is probably incorrectly. The community has voted for new user groups
 and recent changes patrolling.

People with no edits setting apart from those votes? You have been canvassing
for these changes for weeks.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #11 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
I did not canvassing, that you should not care who I invited to vote and it is
not your thing.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #12 from Snowolf wikimedia.b...@snowolf.eu ---
(In reply to Kolega2357 from comment #11)
 I did not canvassing, that you should not care who I invited to vote and it
 is not your thing.

If I'm not misreading the comment, you just admitted to canvassing.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #13 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
This is pure sabotage the project sh wiktionary by Italian Stewards

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #14 from Quentinv57 quentin...@gmail.com ---
I do agree with Vituzzu and Snowolf above.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #15 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
I too believe that this request should be put on hold.

1) Above, it talks about Wikipedia users, though it talks about Wiktionary, so
there is that uncertainty to remedy first, though it may be a slip of the
tongue.

2) For a small wiki with 24 active users[1][2] to get 16 yes votes in the span
of three-four days, when numbers of those users have next to nothing in the way
of contributions, one has to and should question the validity of the process as
representing the community will.

3) The site itself does not seem to have a clear requirement for patroller and
person-bot rights.  Autopatrolled would seem to be sufficient to manage their
requirements.  They are not a big wiki, and many of the big wikis don't do
these things.  It has taken the wiki the best part of a week to get 500 edits,
it does not seem that burdensome. You can allocate bot rights, and there
doesn't seem to be the demonstrated need for person-bot rights in a review of
your RC.

Re Kolega's comments. One of the reasons that there are stewards is to look to
assist communities with the application of rights. The history of rights
allocations has been problematic when they are over-allocated to small
communities, and the control of a few people. We see things become about
ownership. Rights that grow organically and naturally with the community have
seem to be that have worked best. Rather than rights thought to be a good idea
to make a community or the bureaucrats seem to justify their positions and
elevate a level of unnecessary importance.

[1] https://bitly.com/1gFTXaf+  (small wiki info)
[2]
https://sh.wiktionary.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allusersauactiveusersauwitheditsonlyaulimit=500auprop=editcount

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||billinghu...@gmail.com

--- Comment #16 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
For the record, Google translate this proposal as

Suggest to sh.wiki introduce the following user groups: 

 autopatroleri - any article offices, the records will show that they are
automatically view changes - this could be confirmed automatically active users 
 patroleri - patrolling recent changes (and may be the first step towards
obtaining the status of a later administrator) 
 vraćači (rollbackeri) - return all changes with one click. 
 user bot (flood flag) - every administrator and bureaucrat can assign
yourself or another user to perform routine tasks 

Serbo Wiki exceeded the number 40,000 article and think that this could benefit
the project in the future. Serbo-Wiki is the largest South Slavic vocabulary
with over 40,000 articles. It would be best to make a statement about this -
Kolega2357 (talk) 20:16, 11 February-February 2014 (UTC)

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

Snowolf wikimedia.b...@snowolf.eu changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #17 from Snowolf wikimedia.b...@snowolf.eu ---
I'm making this as not done per the canvassing issues.

What we're worried here is a repeat of something akin to hiwiki, where users
with sysop rights sought to create a lot of permissions (compared to the number
of active users) to limit access to sysop. The mere request is not necessarily
a bad thing, but the admitted canvassing, especially coupled with recent issues
involving Kolega and steward requests, I think are worrying.

Canvassing makes it impossible to figure out whether a request has legitimate
community support. If you couple this with the fact that the wiki has barely 10
active users and a bot that's creating stubs automatically on a massive scale
(106k edits in the last 30 days), we're very, very close to what hiwiki was at
the time of the RfC. I am very worried by how things are going on there.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #18 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
My comment to the proposal is that with rights there should be a clear
demonstration about what the rights do, how they would be used, and the effect
on the wiki. The practice should be demonstrate the benefit, and demonstrate
the use, have that conversation on wiki, and it should be a clear question
answer.

Rights are not about making statements, rights are not about prestige, they are
simply tools to be used to undertake tasks when those tasks need to be
undertaken.

In checking your RC, 
* Bot rights for people — the edits undertaken by you, could have been done by
your bot. There is no example of how bot rights would be used by people, no
bulk deletions, bulk moves etc. that would flood RC.
* Rollbacker —tThere is no evidence of undo required, nor to whom you would
grant the right, especially as your active user list shows nobody except admins
with more than 24 edits. Admins already have the right.
* Patroller — no evidence that it is needed (see rollbacker)
* Autopatrolled. This is a right that you should have admins and 'crats
allocate, I believe that it is a good right to have the ability to self-manage.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #19 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
I propose that this be reopened, with solely the autopatrolled right be
configured to be activated.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

PiRSquared17 pirsquare...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||pirsquare...@gmail.com

--- Comment #20 from PiRSquared17 pirsquare...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to billinghurst from comment #19)
 I propose that this be reopened, with solely the autopatrolled right be
 configured to be activated.

Not patroller too?

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #21 from billinghurst billinghu...@gmail.com ---
Rollbacker is reviewing others edits, there seems no such evident experience
from the active editors, or the RC, so use of undo is sufficient. Would not
seem that there is enough active users with sufficient editing experience to
make that decision. Admins already have it.  It is only a one step permission
versus a two step. What are you seeing different?

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-27 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #22 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
This is extremely incorrect stroke by Wikimedia Stewards. I believed all
Stewards, but do not believe individuals. You cut the branch on which you sit.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-20 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #7 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
In Comment 0 it is all nicely explained.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #3 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to Bawolff (Brian Wolff) from comment #2)
 $wgFilterLogTypes = true;
 
 $wgFilterLogTypes is not a boolean... In any case the default should be fine
 for you.

When will resolved this request?

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #4 from jeremyb bugzilla+org.wikime...@tuxmachine.com ---
(In reply to Kolega2357 from comment #3)
 When will resolved this request?

Generally I would say allow 1-3 weeks. Various factors can effect that e.g.
holidays, conferences, staff events and travel, whether or not a patch has been
provided.

In this case there is not yet a patch so that would be the first thing to
address.

Also, language is sometimes a barrier (we mostly can't read the on-wiki
discussion to evaluate consensus, etc.) In this case Google translate fails to
provide any hints (blank white page, no error msg).

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #5 from Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to jeremyb from comment #4)
 (In reply to Kolega2357 from comment #3)
  When will resolved this request?
 
 Generally I would say allow 1-3 weeks. Various factors can effect that e.g.
 holidays, conferences, staff events and travel, whether or not a patch has
 been provided.
 
 In this case there is not yet a patch so that would be the first thing to
 address.
 
 Also, language is sometimes a barrier (we mostly can't read the on-wiki
 discussion to evaluate consensus, etc.) In this case Google translate fails
 to provide any hints (blank white page, no error msg).

I am not use Google Translate.

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

--- Comment #6 from jeremyb bugzilla+org.wikime...@tuxmachine.com ---
(In reply to Kolega2357 from comment #5)
 I am not use Google Translate.

So? I did (try to). I can't read the discussions linked from comment #0 without
some translation help...

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

Kolega2357 kolega2...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

  Component|Sites   |General/Unknown

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||shell
 CC||aklap...@wikimedia.org,
   ||benap...@gmail.com,
   ||bugzilla+org.wikimedia@tuxm
   ||achine.com,
   ||dereck...@espace-win.org,
   ||g...@wikimedia.org,
   ||tom...@twkozlowski.net,
   ||wikimedia.b...@snowolf.eu
  Component|General/Unknown |Site requests
Product|MediaWiki   |Wikimedia

--- Comment #1 from Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org ---
[Moving to Wikimedia product as this request is about settings /
configuration of the website, not about the codebase of MediaWiki itself.]

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[Bug 61380] User group for Serbo-Croatian Wiktionary and enable recent changes patrol

2014-02-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61380

Bawolff (Brian Wolff) bawolff...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||bawolff...@gmail.com

--- Comment #2 from Bawolff (Brian Wolff) bawolff...@gmail.com ---
$wgFilterLogTypes = true;

$wgFilterLogTypes is not a boolean... In any case the default should be fine
for you.

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