subject:"Re\: \[Wikimania\-l\] Visa rejections"

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-31 Thread Béria Lima

>
> 
>
> *5. The interface to the visa application web site / office is like a
> black hole. There is no way you can even ask why your application is not
> being responded even after 60 days. No telephone, no mail ID that can reply
> to. The whole system seems to bea rude automation of some 19th century port
> pass system.*


As someone who had to deal with Canadian Immigration for more than 2
yeas, I can say they are not so burocratic as Europe and USA, but not
even nearly as easy to deal as the Brazilian Immigration :).

Anyway, just to help you and eveyone else who wants to contact
immigration, here is the page:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/contacts/call.asp

And since this Wikimania is in Quebec, if for some reason you need to
talk with Immigration Quebec (not necessary for a tourist visa, but you
never know), here is their contact page:
http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/fr/coordonnees/telephone.html

_
*Béria L. de Rodríguez*

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho.*

On 31 July 2017 at 03:56, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) 
wrote:

> Ha Ha!
> Very tired and completely down with a vi
> 
> ral fever + an unexpected denial of an almost definitive temporary visa +
> realization of loss of money.
> To that miserable scenario, Ranjith's wrongly worded mail brought me some
> good laughter as I get to open the mailbox.
> Thank you Ranjith. :-)
>
> Now few facts among the many:
> 1. I have a long travel history since 1992 running through Europe,
> Americas and Middle East.
> 2. Well established reasons to show that I must / will get back to India
> after this short visit.
> 3. I hold a US B1/B2 visa valid as on date.
> 4. There is a 'clickable' and identifiable hotel booking and travel
> booking in my name.
> 
> 5. The interface to the visa application web site / office is like a black
> hole. There is no way you can even ask why your application is not being
> responded even after 60 days. No telephone, no mail ID that can reply to.
> The whole system seems to be
> a rude automation of some 19th century port pass system.
>
> Canada, for a whole lifetime, I always adored you! But now I feel sorry
> for you!
>
> -Viswaprabha
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-31 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland

"The whole system seems to be a rude automation of some 19th century port
pass system."

- As a Canadian, I can tell you the federal government is still living in
the 19th century, or early 20th century at best.

JP



On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 2:56 AM, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <
viswapra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ha Ha!
> Very tired and completely down with a viral fever + an unexpected denial
> of an almost definitive temporary visa + realization of loss of money.
> To that miserable scenario, Ranjith's wrongly worded mail brought me some
> good laughter as I get to open the mailbox.
> Thank you Ranjith. :-)
>
> Now few facts among the many:
> 1. I have a long travel history since 1992 running through Europe,
> Americas and Middle East.
> 2. Well established reasons to show that I must / will get back to India
> after this short visit.
> 3. I hold a US B1/B2 visa valid as on date.
> 4. There is a 'clickable' and identifiable hotel booking and travel
> booking in my name.
> 5. The interface to the visa application web site / office is like a black
> hole. There is no way you can even ask why your application is not being
> responded even after 60 days. No telephone, no mail ID that can reply to.
> The whole system seems to be
> a rude automation of some 19th century port pass system.
>
> Canada, for a whole lifetime, I always adored you! But now I feel sorry
> for you!
>
> -Viswaprabha
>
> On 31 July 2017 at 10:39, Satdeep Gill <satdeep_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Let me correct, Viswa only has an Indian passport. I think Ranjith wanted
>> to say that Viswa's visa got rejected even though he had a Valid US visa.
>>
>> Regards
>> Satdeep Gill
>>
>> Strategy Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Track_B#SGill_.28WMF.29>
>> Co-founder, Punjabi Wikimedians
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikimedians>
>> Treasurer, Affiliations Committee
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee>
>> Member, Language Committee
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee>
>>
>> On 31-Jul-2017, at 8:41 AM, wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> wrote:
>>
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>>wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>wikimania-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Visa rejections (Ranjith S)
>>   2. Re: Visa rejections (Josh Lim)
>>   3. Re: Visa rejections (Risker)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:21:06 +0530
>> From: Ranjith S <ranjith.saj...@gmail.com>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>><wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
>> Message-ID:
>><CAF9aKc+HHXVOo2g+BASG_0xT5FPofW4wufim80pQ+=5oum6...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection
>> from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
>>
>> He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
>>
>> Very sad to hear this.
>>
>> On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" <eyo...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into
>>
>> Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were
>>
>> notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We
>>
>> have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they
>>
>> accepted  the scholarship offer with names from there.
>>
>>
>> Ellie
>>
>> WMF Event Manager
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr <
>> rehman.wikime...@live.com
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are t

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-31 Thread cs

Sound pretty much like it is for a Brit trying to get a visa for Australia 
these days through their visa agency in Bangkok - and we once used to own the 
place ;)
I’ve stopped visiting my relations there because of the hassle getting in.
I think it’s due to my passport showing stamps for every developing country in 
Asia, and living in Thailand.

Kudpung

> On 31Jul, 2017, at 13:56, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <viswapra...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ha Ha!
> Very tired and completely down with a viral fever + an unexpected denial of 
> an almost definitive temporary visa + realization of loss of money.
> To that miserable scenario, Ranjith's wrongly worded mail brought me some 
> good laughter as I get to open the mailbox.
> Thank you Ranjith. :-) 
> 
> Now few facts among the many:
> 1. I have a long travel history since 1992 running through Europe, Americas 
> and Middle East.
> 2. Well established reasons to show that I must / will get back to India 
> after this short visit.
> 3. I hold a US B1/B2 visa valid as on date.
> 4. There is a 'clickable' and identifiable hotel booking and travel booking 
> in my name.
> 5. The interface to the visa application web site / office is like a black 
> hole. There is no way you can even ask why your application is not being 
> responded even after 60 days. No telephone, no mail ID that can reply to. The 
> whole system seems to be
> a rude automation of some 19th century port pass system.
> 
> Canada, for a whole lifetime, I always adored you! But now I feel sorry for 
> you!
> 
> -Viswaprabha
> 
> On 31 July 2017 at 10:39, Satdeep Gill <satdeep_g...@yahoo.com 
> <mailto:satdeep_g...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Let me correct, Viswa only has an Indian passport. I think Ranjith wanted to 
> say that Viswa's visa got rejected even though he had a Valid US visa.
> 
> Regards
> Satdeep Gill
> 
> Strategy Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Track_B#SGill_.28WMF.29>
> Co-founder, Punjabi Wikimedians 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikimedians>
> Treasurer, Affiliations Committee 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee>
> Member, Language Committee 
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee>
> 
> On 31-Jul-2017, at 8:41 AM, wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org 
> <mailto:wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> 
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>>wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l 
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org 
>> <mailto:wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>wikimania-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org 
>> <mailto:wikimania-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: Visa rejections (Ranjith S)
>>   2. Re: Visa rejections (Josh Lim)
>>   3. Re: Visa rejections (Risker)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:21:06 +0530
>> From: Ranjith S <ranjith.saj...@gmail.com <mailto:ranjith.saj...@gmail.com>>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>><wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
>> Message-ID:
>><CAF9aKc+HHXVOo2g+BASG_0xT5FPofW4wufim80pQ+=5oum6...@mail.gmail.com 
>> <mailto:CAF9aKc+HHXVOo2g+BASG_0xT5FPofW4wufim80pQ+=5oum6...@mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection
>> from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
>> 
>> He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
>> 
>> Very sad to hear this.
>> 
>> On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" <eyo...@wikimedia.org 
>> <mailto:eyo...@wikimedia.org>> wrote:
>> 
>>> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into
>>> Phase 2 consideration by the S

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-31 Thread വിശ്വപ്രഭ

Ha Ha!
Very tired and completely down with a viral fever + an unexpected denial of
an almost definitive temporary visa + realization of loss of money.
To that miserable scenario, Ranjith's wrongly worded mail brought me some
good laughter as I get to open the mailbox.
Thank you Ranjith. :-)

Now few facts among the many:
1. I have a long travel history since 1992 running through Europe, Americas
and Middle East.
2. Well established reasons to show that I must / will get back to India
after this short visit.
3. I hold a US B1/B2 visa valid as on date.
4. There is a 'clickable' and identifiable hotel booking and travel booking
in my name.
5. The interface to the visa application web site / office is like a black
hole. There is no way you can even ask why your application is not being
responded even after 60 days. No telephone, no mail ID that can reply to.
The whole system seems to be
a rude automation of some 19th century port pass system.

Canada, for a whole lifetime, I always adored you! But now I feel sorry for
you!

-Viswaprabha

On 31 July 2017 at 10:39, Satdeep Gill <satdeep_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Let me correct, Viswa only has an Indian passport. I think Ranjith wanted
> to say that Viswa's visa got rejected even though he had a Valid US visa.
>
> Regards
> Satdeep Gill
>
> Strategy Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Track_B#SGill_.28WMF.29>
> Co-founder, Punjabi Wikimedians
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikimedians>
> Treasurer, Affiliations Committee
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee>
> Member, Language Committee
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee>
>
> On 31-Jul-2017, at 8:41 AM, wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>
> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>wikimania-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Visa rejections (Ranjith S)
>   2. Re: Visa rejections (Josh Lim)
>   3. Re: Visa rejections (Risker)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:21:06 +0530
> From: Ranjith S <ranjith.saj...@gmail.com>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
><wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
> Message-ID:
><CAF9aKc+HHXVOo2g+BASG_0xT5FPofW4wufim80pQ+=5oum6...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection
> from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
>
> He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
>
> Very sad to hear this.
>
> On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" <eyo...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into
>
> Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were
>
> notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We
>
> have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they
>
> accepted  the scholarship offer with names from there.
>
>
> Ellie
>
> WMF Event Manager
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr <rehman.wikime...@live.com
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted
>
> candidates this time?
>
>
>
> A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the
>
> same on this thread.
>
>
>
> I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who
>
> would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of
>
> rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would
>
> not be able to make it, of course)
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
>
> User:Rehman <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Wikimania-l mailing list
>
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> ___

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-30 Thread Ranjith S

Sorry my bad. He is holding a us visa. Not Canadian passport.

But still got a rejection.

On 31-Jul-2017 8:22 AM, "Josh Lim"  wrote:

> Hi Ranjith,
>
> Am I reading correctly that Viswa has a Canadian passport? If he has one,
> then he doesn’t need a visa to go to Montréal.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Josh
>
> On Jul 31, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Ranjith S  wrote:
>
> On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection
> from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
>
> He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
>
> Very sad to hear this.
>
> On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young"  wrote:
>
>> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into
>> Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were
>> notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We
>> have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they
>> accepted  the scholarship offer with names from there.
>>
>> Ellie
>> WMF Event Manager
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr <
>> rehman.wikime...@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted
>>> candidates this time?
>>>
>>>
>>> A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the
>>> same on this thread.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who
>>> would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of
>>> rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would
>>> not be able to make it, of course)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>
>>> User:Rehman 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> *JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM*
> Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
> Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
> Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
>
> jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582 <+63%20977%20831%207582>
> Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
> http://joshlim.me
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-30 Thread Risker

I'm sorry...but this one is a red flag.

Canadian passports are only issued to Canadian citizens, and Canadian
citizens do not require a visa to come to Canada, regardless of where in
the world they are when they start their trip.  They must enter Canada
using their Canadian passport for any related travel information (i.e.,
using the Canadian passport for airline information), at the time of
boarding and at the time of arrival in Canada.  If ViswaPrabha is a dual
citizen, then both passports should be carried at all times.

If he applied for a visa, he received horrible advice.  If he is a Canadian
citizen, he can probably still travel, and should contact the Ministry of
Immigration and Citizenship directly.

Risker/Anne



On 30 July 2017 at 22:51, Ranjith S  wrote:

> On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection
> from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
>
> He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
>
> Very sad to hear this.
>
> On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young"  wrote:
>
>> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into
>> Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were
>> notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We
>> have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they
>> accepted  the scholarship offer with names from there.
>>
>> Ellie
>> WMF Event Manager
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr <
>> rehman.wikime...@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted
>>> candidates this time?
>>>
>>>
>>> A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the
>>> same on this thread.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who
>>> would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of
>>> rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would
>>> not be able to make it, of course)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>
>>> User:Rehman 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-30 Thread Josh Lim

Hi Ranjith,

Am I reading correctly that Viswa has a Canadian passport? If he has one, then 
he doesn’t need a visa to go to Montréal.

Best regards,

Josh

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Ranjith S  wrote:
> 
> On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection 
> from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania. 
> 
> He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad. 
> 
> Very sad to hear this.
> 
> On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young"  > wrote:
> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase 2 
> consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were notified that 
> they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We have filled the 
> people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they accepted  the 
> scholarship offer with names from there.
> 
> Ellie
> WMF Event Manager
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr  > wrote:
> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates 
> this time?
> 
> 
> A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same 
> on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would 
> like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected 
> applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able 
> to make it, of course)
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> 
> User:Rehman 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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> 
> 
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JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines

jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com  | +63 (977) 831-7582
Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
http://joshlim.me 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-30 Thread Ranjith S

On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection
from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.

He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.

Very sad to hear this.

On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young"  wrote:

> We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into
> Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were
> notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We
> have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they
> accepted  the scholarship offer with names from there.
>
> Ellie
> WMF Event Manager
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr  > wrote:
>
>> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted
>> candidates this time?
>>
>>
>> A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the
>> same on this thread.
>>
>>
>> I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who
>> would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of
>> rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would
>> not be able to make it, of course)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> User:Rehman 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-27 Thread Ellie Young

We have  a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase
2 consideration by the Scholarship committee.   Those people were notified
that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July.  We have
filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they
accepted  the scholarship offer with names from there.

Ellie
WMF Event Manager

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr 
wrote:

> Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates
> this time?
>
>
> A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the
> same on this thread.
>
>
> I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who
> would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of
> rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would
> not be able to make it, of course)
>
>
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> User:Rehman 
>
>
>
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>

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-27 Thread Rehman Abubakr

Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this 
time?


A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on 
this thread.


I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would 
like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected 
applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to 
make it, of course)



Thanks and regards,

User:Rehman


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-27 Thread balaji

Hi,
 I am Balaji. User:Balajijagadesh from India. Yesterday My visa
application was rejected with the reply that "Having a legitimate business
purpose in Canada".

Best wishes far people participating in wikimania

Regards,
J. Balaji

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Gnangarra  wrote:

> I have on 4 occassions put forward Perth WA bids, including for 2017, 2018
> and 2019, my response was purely to highlight that information being put
> forward in this email thread that was incorrect and later praise  as nice
> to facts being presented.  NO intention of usurping this thread. I'm well
> aware of what it takes to host such a large event.
>
> I know what the significance being able to attend a Wikimania is and feel
> for those who are having visa problems
>
> On 27 July 2017 at 14:34, Lodewijk  wrote:
>
>> Hi Gnagarra,
>>
>> if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a
>> whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.
>>
>> Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people
>> 'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want
>> to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like
>> 'visa in my country are super easy'.
>> (and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that
>> like to share about their visa policies)
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>>
>>> Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
>>> Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
>>> https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
>>> regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
>>> apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
>>> within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
>>> industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
>>> 3rd party sites as facts.
>>>
>>> On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country",
 please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
 https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative
 (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
 (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
 * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
 equivalent
 * Mexico: 67
 * UK: 91
 * Italy: 93
 * Hong Kong: 144
 (Some other countries mentioned here)
 * Australia: 34
 * Thailand: 78
 * Israel: 96

 Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host
 in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK.
 And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
 Wikimedia chapter.

 Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a
 visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa
 policy.

 Thanks
 Mykola (NickK)

 --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
 Від кого: "DaB." 
 Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44

 Hello,
 Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
 >  a country like  Thailand where I  live

 you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
 second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
 war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?

 Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
 the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.

 Sincerely,
 DaB.

 --
 Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
 PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)

 ___
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-27 Thread Gnangarra

I have on 4 occassions put forward Perth WA bids, including for 2017, 2018
and 2019, my response was purely to highlight that information being put
forward in this email thread that was incorrect and later praise  as nice
to facts being presented.  NO intention of usurping this thread. I'm well
aware of what it takes to host such a large event.

I know what the significance being able to attend a Wikimania is and feel
for those who are having visa problems

On 27 July 2017 at 14:34, Lodewijk  wrote:

> Hi Gnagarra,
>
> if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a
> whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.
>
> Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people
> 'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want
> to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like
> 'visa in my country are super easy'.
> (and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that
> like to share about their visa policies)
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
>> Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
>> https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
>> regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
>> apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
>> within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
>> industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
>> 3rd party sites as facts.
>>
>> On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country",
>>> please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
>>> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
>>> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
>>> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
>>> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
>>> equivalent
>>> * Mexico: 67
>>> * UK: 91
>>> * Italy: 93
>>> * Hong Kong: 144
>>> (Some other countries mentioned here)
>>> * Australia: 34
>>> * Thailand: 78
>>> * Israel: 96
>>>
>>> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
>>> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
>>> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
>>> Wikimedia chapter.
>>>
>>> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a
>>> visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa
>>> policy.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mykola (NickK)
>>>
>>> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
>>> Від кого: "DaB." 
>>> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>>> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>>>
>>> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
>>> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
>>> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>>>
>>> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
>>> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> DaB.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
>>> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing 
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>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> President Wikimedia Australia
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-27 Thread Lodewijk

Hi Gnagarra,

if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a
whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.

Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people
'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want
to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like
'visa in my country are super easy'.
(and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that
like to share about their visa policies)

Best,
Lodewijk

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:

> Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
> Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
> https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
> regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
> apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
> within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
> industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
> 3rd party sites as facts.
>
> On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please
>> look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
>> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
>> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
>> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
>> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
>> equivalent
>> * Mexico: 67
>> * UK: 91
>> * Italy: 93
>> * Hong Kong: 144
>> (Some other countries mentioned here)
>> * Australia: 34
>> * Thailand: 78
>> * Israel: 96
>>
>> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
>> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
>> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
>> Wikimedia chapter.
>>
>> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a
>> visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa
>> policy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mykola (NickK)
>>
>> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
>> Від кого: "DaB." 
>> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>>
>> Hello,
>> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>>
>> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
>> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
>> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>>
>> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
>> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> DaB.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
>> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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>>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-26 Thread Gnangarra

Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
3rd party sites as facts.

On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please
> look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
> equivalent
> * Mexico: 67
> * UK: 91
> * Italy: 93
> * Hong Kong: 144
> (Some other countries mentioned here)
> * Australia: 34
> * Thailand: 78
> * Israel: 96
>
> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
> Wikimedia chapter.
>
> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly
> or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
>
> Thanks
> Mykola (NickK)
>
> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
> Від кого: "DaB." 
> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>
> Hello,
> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>
> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>
> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
> --
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-26 Thread Ellie Young

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Isaac Olatunde 
wrote:

> I agree with Jonathan that issuing scholarship earlier than three months
> before event is meaningless. What I see as the most viable solution to this
> problem is that WMF should leave invitations to host country who is
> expected to work in tandem with their Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
>

I would like to point out that WMF normally does work with the above, but
with Canada their processes did not allow for this option

The Steering Committee and Foundation will no doubt revisit the location
issue for Wikimania.  We do mostly go to "visa-friendly" countries but once
every 5 years or so the conference is located in Canada or USA which has
these challenges.


> The Wikimedia Conference in Berlin is working today not because Germany is
> Visa-friendly but because of the way WMDE is handling the visa process.
> It's surprising that WMF is the one inviting people to Canada rather than
> the host country. I don't know if someone from the foundation will comment
> on the invitation letter.
>
> Best,
>
> Isaac
>
> On Jul 4, 2017 5:30 PM, "Dhaval S. Vyas"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Jonathan,
>>
>> With regard to the point 2, issuing scholarships early, how early is a
>> question. Most countries, if not all, only allows one to apply no more than
>> 3 months prior to their intended date of travel, so notifying recipients 6
>> months in advance is not going to help them in anyways.
>>
>> We need to learn the reason provided by visa processing agency for the
>> rejection, which can help others decide what to submit and what to expect.
>> I think in this thread also I have missed that if anyone mentioned the
>> official reason provided to them. I see points made about
>> invitation/sponsorship letter sent from US for Canada visa here but
>> uncertain whether that was officially the reason for rejection.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dhaval Vyas
>>
>> On 4 Jul 2017 16:45, "Jonathan Cardy" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Levin,
>>>
>>> Of your three points:
>>>
>>> 1 Is good, but I can remember one winning bid where there was a very
>>> strong reassurance at the bid stage which then didn't really work out well
>>> during the organisation stage. I'm not going to name the bid, but I will
>>> say that people ask questions and not every answer is 100% delivered. If
>>> questions have not been asked recently we need to start asking them again (
>>> I don't know if this was looked at during Montreal, I look at lots of
>>> Wikimania bids and often ask about visas, I don't remember looking at the
>>> Montreal bid).
>>>
>>> 2 Is a problem, some of the people who are going to have most difficulty
>>> getting visas are people who can only afford to come if they get a
>>> scholarship. Moving the whole scholarship process forward so we know who is
>>> going to come earlier would lose spontaneity of the event for others though
>>> it would help some get visas. But there are two things we could do. Firstly
>>> we could offer scholarships now  to next year's Wikimania to scholarship
>>> recipients who couldn't get visas to Montreal (and do that each year - this
>>> is not a new problem or an easy one). Secondly we could move the
>>> scholarship process forward for people coming from countries where visas
>>> are likely to be slow to get for the next Wikimania. That could mean two
>>> rounds of scholarship applications, one for one group of countries and a
>>> few months later for people from other countries. Not perfect but practical
>>> and probably helpful.
>>>
>>> 3 I'm pretty sure there has been analysis, at least to the level of
>>> number of non attendees due to visa failure per Wikimania. For Privacy
>>> reasons we need to be very careful with any more detailed data, but that
>>> number should be known and each Wikimania team should be aiming to be low
>>> on that list.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4 Jul 2017, at 13:13, Levon Azizian  wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Regarding mentioned, I have some suggestions on mitigation risks for the
>>> future what could be done.
>>>
>>> 1. Visa support should be an important component for hosting community.
>>> Thus, during the bidding process of new location of Wikimania (or other
>>> huge event), each proposal of location should be considered not only from
>>> the prospective of visa-friendly policy, but on preliminary negotiations
>>> between local chapter (community) and local authorities (MFA or whatever).
>>> Thus, if let's say community of New Zealand get some positive negotiation's
>>> result from MFA of NZ on participant's visa support, it should be
>>> considered as a plus for this bid.
>>> 2. After the bid was chosen, local team should provide to local
>>> authorities the list of all participants who will participate at event and
>>> make sure that central authorities will transfer the lists to embassies and
>>> this lists will

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-26 Thread Dr. U.B. Pavanaja

Hi,

 

I got my visa approved. I also have a fairly good travel history (USA,
Singapore, Taiwan)

 

Regards,

Pavanaja

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf
Of Nahid Sultan
Sent: 26 July 2017 07:27 PM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

 

Hey Folks,

I got my passport back today and count me in to the 'rejected party' :) The
grounds of rejection are 'Travel History' and 'Purpose of Travel'. Though I
have a fair travel history with 3 Schengen, a valid USA visa and some other
visas. I guess the guy even didn't bother to check my passport. 

 

Best of luck to all those participating in the Wikimania this year. 

 

Cheers,

Nahid Sultan

 <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan> User:NahidSultan on all
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation> Wikimedia Foundation's
public wikis

Secretary, Wikimedia Bangladesh
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh> 

Twitter: @nahidunlimited <https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited> 

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-26 Thread Nahid Sultan

Hey Folks,

I got my passport back today and count me in to the 'rejected party' :) The 
grounds of rejection are 'Travel History' and 'Purpose of Travel'. Though I 
have a fair travel history with 3 Schengen, a valid USA visa and some other 
visas. I guess the guy even didn't bother to check my passport.


Best of luck to all those participating in the Wikimania this year.


Cheers,

Nahid Sultan

User:NahidSultan on all 
Wikimedia Foundation's 
public wikis

Secretary, Wikimedia 
Bangladesh

Twitter: @nahidunlimited
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Isaac Olatunde

I agree with Jonathan that issuing scholarship earlier than three months
before event is meaningless. What I see as the most viable solution to this
problem is that WMF should leave invitations to host country who is
expected to work in tandem with their Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The
Wikimedia Conference in Berlin is working today not because Germany is
Visa-friendly but because of the way WMDE is handling the visa process.
It's surprising that WMF is the one inviting people to Canada rather than
the host country. I don't know if someone from the foundation will comment
on the invitation letter.

Best,

Isaac

On Jul 4, 2017 5:30 PM, "Dhaval S. Vyas"  wrote:

> Hi Jonathan,
>
> With regard to the point 2, issuing scholarships early, how early is a
> question. Most countries, if not all, only allows one to apply no more than
> 3 months prior to their intended date of travel, so notifying recipients 6
> months in advance is not going to help them in anyways.
>
> We need to learn the reason provided by visa processing agency for the
> rejection, which can help others decide what to submit and what to expect.
> I think in this thread also I have missed that if anyone mentioned the
> official reason provided to them. I see points made about
> invitation/sponsorship letter sent from US for Canada visa here but
> uncertain whether that was officially the reason for rejection.
>
> Regards,
> Dhaval Vyas
>
> On 4 Jul 2017 16:45, "Jonathan Cardy"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Levin,
>>
>> Of your three points:
>>
>> 1 Is good, but I can remember one winning bid where there was a very
>> strong reassurance at the bid stage which then didn't really work out well
>> during the organisation stage. I'm not going to name the bid, but I will
>> say that people ask questions and not every answer is 100% delivered. If
>> questions have not been asked recently we need to start asking them again (
>> I don't know if this was looked at during Montreal, I look at lots of
>> Wikimania bids and often ask about visas, I don't remember looking at the
>> Montreal bid).
>>
>> 2 Is a problem, some of the people who are going to have most difficulty
>> getting visas are people who can only afford to come if they get a
>> scholarship. Moving the whole scholarship process forward so we know who is
>> going to come earlier would lose spontaneity of the event for others though
>> it would help some get visas. But there are two things we could do. Firstly
>> we could offer scholarships now  to next year's Wikimania to scholarship
>> recipients who couldn't get visas to Montreal (and do that each year - this
>> is not a new problem or an easy one). Secondly we could move the
>> scholarship process forward for people coming from countries where visas
>> are likely to be slow to get for the next Wikimania. That could mean two
>> rounds of scholarship applications, one for one group of countries and a
>> few months later for people from other countries. Not perfect but practical
>> and probably helpful.
>>
>> 3 I'm pretty sure there has been analysis, at least to the level of
>> number of non attendees due to visa failure per Wikimania. For Privacy
>> reasons we need to be very careful with any more detailed data, but that
>> number should be known and each Wikimania team should be aiming to be low
>> on that list.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>> On 4 Jul 2017, at 13:13, Levon Azizian  wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Regarding mentioned, I have some suggestions on mitigation risks for the
>> future what could be done.
>>
>> 1. Visa support should be an important component for hosting community.
>> Thus, during the bidding process of new location of Wikimania (or other
>> huge event), each proposal of location should be considered not only from
>> the prospective of visa-friendly policy, but on preliminary negotiations
>> between local chapter (community) and local authorities (MFA or whatever).
>> Thus, if let's say community of New Zealand get some positive negotiation's
>> result from MFA of NZ on participant's visa support, it should be
>> considered as a plus for this bid.
>> 2. After the bid was chosen, local team should provide to local
>> authorities the list of all participants who will participate at event and
>> make sure that central authorities will transfer the lists to embassies and
>> this lists will make a sense when decision on visa is made by embassy.
>> Maybe it is not the most interesting thing, but hosting communities should
>> take care on ability of their guests to visit the country,
>> 3. Analysis of history of visa applications of Wiki(m/p)edians. As I
>> understand, we never did such analysis and it could be useful as for passed
>> event, and for future events as well.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Levon Azizian
>> Wikimedia Ukraine
>>
>> 2017-07-04 15:02 GMT+03:00 Harry Mitchell :
>>
>>> It strikes me that it would be helpful to focus on how we

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Dhaval S. Vyas

Hi Jonathan,

With regard to the point 2, issuing scholarships early, how early is a
question. Most countries, if not all, only allows one to apply no more than
3 months prior to their intended date of travel, so notifying recipients 6
months in advance is not going to help them in anyways.

We need to learn the reason provided by visa processing agency for the
rejection, which can help others decide what to submit and what to expect.
I think in this thread also I have missed that if anyone mentioned the
official reason provided to them. I see points made about
invitation/sponsorship letter sent from US for Canada visa here but
uncertain whether that was officially the reason for rejection.

Regards,
Dhaval Vyas

On 4 Jul 2017 16:45, "Jonathan Cardy"  wrote:

> Hi Levin,
>
> Of your three points:
>
> 1 Is good, but I can remember one winning bid where there was a very
> strong reassurance at the bid stage which then didn't really work out well
> during the organisation stage. I'm not going to name the bid, but I will
> say that people ask questions and not every answer is 100% delivered. If
> questions have not been asked recently we need to start asking them again (
> I don't know if this was looked at during Montreal, I look at lots of
> Wikimania bids and often ask about visas, I don't remember looking at the
> Montreal bid).
>
> 2 Is a problem, some of the people who are going to have most difficulty
> getting visas are people who can only afford to come if they get a
> scholarship. Moving the whole scholarship process forward so we know who is
> going to come earlier would lose spontaneity of the event for others though
> it would help some get visas. But there are two things we could do. Firstly
> we could offer scholarships now  to next year's Wikimania to scholarship
> recipients who couldn't get visas to Montreal (and do that each year - this
> is not a new problem or an easy one). Secondly we could move the
> scholarship process forward for people coming from countries where visas
> are likely to be slow to get for the next Wikimania. That could mean two
> rounds of scholarship applications, one for one group of countries and a
> few months later for people from other countries. Not perfect but practical
> and probably helpful.
>
> 3 I'm pretty sure there has been analysis, at least to the level of number
> of non attendees due to visa failure per Wikimania. For Privacy reasons we
> need to be very careful with any more detailed data, but that number should
> be known and each Wikimania team should be aiming to be low on that list.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> On 4 Jul 2017, at 13:13, Levon Azizian  wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Regarding mentioned, I have some suggestions on mitigation risks for the
> future what could be done.
>
> 1. Visa support should be an important component for hosting community.
> Thus, during the bidding process of new location of Wikimania (or other
> huge event), each proposal of location should be considered not only from
> the prospective of visa-friendly policy, but on preliminary negotiations
> between local chapter (community) and local authorities (MFA or whatever).
> Thus, if let's say community of New Zealand get some positive negotiation's
> result from MFA of NZ on participant's visa support, it should be
> considered as a plus for this bid.
> 2. After the bid was chosen, local team should provide to local
> authorities the list of all participants who will participate at event and
> make sure that central authorities will transfer the lists to embassies and
> this lists will make a sense when decision on visa is made by embassy.
> Maybe it is not the most interesting thing, but hosting communities should
> take care on ability of their guests to visit the country,
> 3. Analysis of history of visa applications of Wiki(m/p)edians. As I
> understand, we never did such analysis and it could be useful as for passed
> event, and for future events as well.
>
> Regards,
> Levon Azizian
> Wikimedia Ukraine
>
> 2017-07-04 15:02 GMT+03:00 Harry Mitchell :
>
>> It strikes me that it would be helpful to focus on how we can improve the
>> visa process for attendees from (predominantly) African and Asian countries
>> rather than trying to find a utopia that has a very relaxed visa policy
>> *and* a palatable government *and* political stability *and* modern
>> infrastructure/transport links *and* is not excessively expensive for most
>> people to get to. It's certainly not helpful t pounce on people for making
>> good-faith suggestions, even if you think the suggestion is ludicrous.
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Ivan Martínez

I think there is an impossible task have a country to host a Wikimania with
all the ideal conditions. For an example, Canada and Mexico for better or
worse share borders with US, and there are many geopolitical factors and
mutual agreements derived from States strong advocacy around migration,
travel regulations and such conditioning the visa procedures.

Many other factors of rejection unfortunately are strictly personal and not
attributable to local organizers or WMF as lack of proving of funds to face
an emergency, or evidence of "reasons" to come back to the origin country
as jobs, family or schools. Talking with Foreign Affairs officials in
Mexico in 2015, I know that they aware about people in the past abused of
the attendance to (real or fake) international events to stay legal or
illegal in the country which invited them with good faith.

I know that is not the case of any colleague in the movement, but we need
to be aware about this strict rules and all the factors to consider around
the process and do our best to get people safe and present in Wikimania
cities.

Also I'm agree with Jonathan about kind of "next year" policy.

Best,




2017-07-04 10:45 GMT-05:00 Jonathan Cardy :

> Hi Levin,
>
> Of your three points:
>
> 1 Is good, but I can remember one winning bid where there was a very
> strong reassurance at the bid stage which then didn't really work out well
> during the organisation stage. I'm not going to name the bid, but I will
> say that people ask questions and not every answer is 100% delivered. If
> questions have not been asked recently we need to start asking them again (
> I don't know if this was looked at during Montreal, I look at lots of
> Wikimania bids and often ask about visas, I don't remember looking at the
> Montreal bid).
>
> 2 Is a problem, some of the people who are going to have most difficulty
> getting visas are people who can only afford to come if they get a
> scholarship. Moving the whole scholarship process forward so we know who is
> going to come earlier would lose spontaneity of the event for others though
> it would help some get visas. But there are two things we could do. Firstly
> we could offer scholarships now  to next year's Wikimania to scholarship
> recipients who couldn't get visas to Montreal (and do that each year - this
> is not a new problem or an easy one). Secondly we could move the
> scholarship process forward for people coming from countries where visas
> are likely to be slow to get for the next Wikimania. That could mean two
> rounds of scholarship applications, one for one group of countries and a
> few months later for people from other countries. Not perfect but practical
> and probably helpful.
>
> 3 I'm pretty sure there has been analysis, at least to the level of number
> of non attendees due to visa failure per Wikimania. For Privacy reasons we
> need to be very careful with any more detailed data, but that number should
> be known and each Wikimania team should be aiming to be low on that list.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> On 4 Jul 2017, at 13:13, Levon Azizian  wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Regarding mentioned, I have some suggestions on mitigation risks for the
> future what could be done.
>
> 1. Visa support should be an important component for hosting community.
> Thus, during the bidding process of new location of Wikimania (or other
> huge event), each proposal of location should be considered not only from
> the prospective of visa-friendly policy, but on preliminary negotiations
> between local chapter (community) and local authorities (MFA or whatever).
> Thus, if let's say community of New Zealand get some positive negotiation's
> result from MFA of NZ on participant's visa support, it should be
> considered as a plus for this bid.
> 2. After the bid was chosen, local team should provide to local
> authorities the list of all participants who will participate at event and
> make sure that central authorities will transfer the lists to embassies and
> this lists will make a sense when decision on visa is made by embassy.
> Maybe it is not the most interesting thing, but hosting communities should
> take care on ability of their guests to visit the country,
> 3. Analysis of history of visa applications of Wiki(m/p)edians. As I
> understand, we never did such analysis and it could be useful as for passed
> event, and for future events as well.
>
> Regards,
> Levon Azizian
> Wikimedia Ukraine
>
> 2017-07-04 15:02 GMT+03:00 Harry Mitchell :
>
>> It strikes me that it would be helpful to focus on how we can improve the
>> visa process for attendees from (predominantly) African and Asian countries
>> rather than trying to find a utopia that has a very relaxed visa policy
>> *and* a palatable government *and* political stability *and* modern
>> infrastructure/transport links *and* is not excessively expensive for most
>> people to get to. It's certainly not

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Jonathan Cardy

Hi Levin,

Of your three points:

1 Is good, but I can remember one winning bid where there was a very strong 
reassurance at the bid stage which then didn't really work out well during the 
organisation stage. I'm not going to name the bid, but I will say that people 
ask questions and not every answer is 100% delivered. If questions have not 
been asked recently we need to start asking them again ( I don't know if this 
was looked at during Montreal, I look at lots of Wikimania bids and often ask 
about visas, I don't remember looking at the Montreal bid).

2 Is a problem, some of the people who are going to have most difficulty 
getting visas are people who can only afford to come if they get a scholarship. 
Moving the whole scholarship process forward so we know who is going to come 
earlier would lose spontaneity of the event for others though it would help 
some get visas. But there are two things we could do. Firstly we could offer 
scholarships now  to next year's Wikimania to scholarship recipients who 
couldn't get visas to Montreal (and do that each year - this is not a new 
problem or an easy one). Secondly we could move the scholarship process forward 
for people coming from countries where visas are likely to be slow to get for 
the next Wikimania. That could mean two rounds of scholarship applications, one 
for one group of countries and a few months later for people from other 
countries. Not perfect but practical and probably helpful.

3 I'm pretty sure there has been analysis, at least to the level of number of 
non attendees due to visa failure per Wikimania. For Privacy reasons we need to 
be very careful with any more detailed data, but that number should be known 
and each Wikimania team should be aiming to be low on that list.

Regards

Jonathan 

> On 4 Jul 2017, at 13:13, Levon Azizian  wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> Regarding mentioned, I have some suggestions on mitigation risks for the 
> future what could be done.
> 
> 1. Visa support should be an important component for hosting community. Thus, 
> during the bidding process of new location of Wikimania (or other huge 
> event), each proposal of location should be considered not only from the 
> prospective of visa-friendly policy, but on preliminary negotiations between 
> local chapter (community) and local authorities (MFA or whatever). Thus, if 
> let's say community of New Zealand get some positive negotiation's result 
> from MFA of NZ on participant's visa support, it should be considered as a 
> plus for this bid.
> 2. After the bid was chosen, local team should provide to local authorities 
> the list of all participants who will participate at event and make sure that 
> central authorities will transfer the lists to embassies and this lists will 
> make a sense when decision on visa is made by embassy. Maybe it is not the 
> most interesting thing, but hosting communities should take care on ability 
> of their guests to visit the country,
> 3. Analysis of history of visa applications of Wiki(m/p)edians. As I 
> understand, we never did such analysis and it could be useful as for passed 
> event, and for future events as well.
> 
> Regards,
> Levon Azizian
> Wikimedia Ukraine
> 
> 2017-07-04 15:02 GMT+03:00 Harry Mitchell :
>> It strikes me that it would be helpful to focus on how we can improve the 
>> visa process for attendees from (predominantly) African and Asian countries 
>> rather than trying to find a utopia that has a very relaxed visa policy 
>> *and* a palatable government *and* political stability *and* modern 
>> infrastructure/transport links *and* is not excessively expensive for most 
>> people to get to. It's certainly not helpful t pounce on people for making 
>> good-faith suggestions, even if you think the suggestion is ludicrous.
>> 
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Shanmugam Pachamuthu

I was not asking wmf or anyone other than the applicant to publish the
details. If the applicant is ok then they can publish. Again things that
you guys consider privicy sensitive may not be privacy sensitive to others.
It maybe a cultural difference or unawareness. For example Third question a
stranger asks you in my country would be what's your salary ;). So it's
upto the applicant.

On 04-Jul-2017 6:17 PM, "Levon Azizian"  wrote:

I support what Lodewijk told. This information may be collected only by WMF
staff who signed a contest that this info will not be shared with anyone,
otherwise than just statistics without personification. Personal data
protection is a very important issue.

Levon

2017-07-04 15:41 GMT+03:00 Lodewijk :

> Please don't. This is privacy sensitive information that might actually
> hurt people in future visa applications (for example, in another country).
>
> If you want to collect such info, I suggest you get someone with the
> proper privacy clearance with the WMF to collect it, and analyze it.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Shanmugam Pachamuthu <
> shanmuga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If it's ok with everyone, can we update this
>> 
>>  table with
>> visa status (Approved, Rejected, In progress)?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>>
>>> Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>>
>>> As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
>>> rejected.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
 subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
 belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
 where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
 of citizens/residents of those countries.

 This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this
 year's Wikimania, let us stick to that please.

 Thanks,
 Dhaval

 On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:

 Hello,
 Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
 > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship
 (Egypt,
 > 2008), without particular problems.

 that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
 (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
 support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
 and other human rights.

 And cs, just to quote enwp:

 “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
 National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
 political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
 activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”

 The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
 even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
 conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.

 Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
 (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
 number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
 for a conference.

 Sincerely,
 DaB.

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 ___
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks & Regards,
>> Shanmugam Pachamuthu.
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Shanmugam Pachamuthu

I think WMF should already have this information. maybe we can ask them to
publish country wise anonymous data or something alike.

I agree that it's privacy sensitive data, maybe not a good idea to publish
along with username but for most of the visa applications we have to
publish our previous visa rejections, so it might not hurt other country
visa applications.

On 04-Jul-2017 6:12 PM, "Lodewijk"  wrote:

Please don't. This is privacy sensitive information that might actually
hurt people in future visa applications (for example, in another country).

If you want to collect such info, I suggest you get someone with the proper
privacy clearance with the WMF to collect it, and analyze it.

Lodewijk

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Shanmugam Pachamuthu 
wrote:

> If it's ok with everyone, can we update this
> 
>  table with
> visa status (Approved, Rejected, In progress)?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>
>> Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?
>>
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>> As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
>> rejected.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jayanta Nath
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas  wrote:
>>
>>> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
>>> subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
>>> belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
>>> where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
>>> of citizens/residents of those countries.
>>>
>>> This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
>>> Wikimania, let us stick to that please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dhaval
>>>
>>> On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
>>> > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship
>>> (Egypt,
>>> > 2008), without particular problems.
>>>
>>> that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
>>> (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
>>> support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
>>> and other human rights.
>>>
>>> And cs, just to quote enwp:
>>>
>>> “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
>>> National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
>>> 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
>>> political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
>>> activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
>>>
>>> The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
>>> even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
>>> conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
>>>
>>> Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
>>> (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
>>> number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
>>> for a conference.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> DaB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Thanks & Regards,
> Shanmugam Pachamuthu.
>
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>

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Levon Azizian

I support what Lodewijk told. This information may be collected only by WMF
staff who signed a contest that this info will not be shared with anyone,
otherwise than just statistics without personification. Personal data
protection is a very important issue.

Levon

2017-07-04 15:41 GMT+03:00 Lodewijk :

> Please don't. This is privacy sensitive information that might actually
> hurt people in future visa applications (for example, in another country).
>
> If you want to collect such info, I suggest you get someone with the
> proper privacy clearance with the WMF to collect it, and analyze it.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Shanmugam Pachamuthu <
> shanmuga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If it's ok with everyone, can we update this
>> 
>>  table with
>> visa status (Approved, Rejected, In progress)?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>>
>>> Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>>
>>> As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
>>> rejected.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
 subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
 belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
 where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
 of citizens/residents of those countries.

 This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this
 year's Wikimania, let us stick to that please.

 Thanks,
 Dhaval

 On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:

 Hello,
 Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
 > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship
 (Egypt,
 > 2008), without particular problems.

 that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
 (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
 support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
 and other human rights.

 And cs, just to quote enwp:

 “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
 National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
 political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
 activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”

 The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
 even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
 conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.

 Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
 (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
 number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
 for a conference.

 Sincerely,
 DaB.



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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks & Regards,
>> Shanmugam Pachamuthu.
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Lodewijk

Please don't. This is privacy sensitive information that might actually
hurt people in future visa applications (for example, in another country).

If you want to collect such info, I suggest you get someone with the proper
privacy clearance with the WMF to collect it, and analyze it.

Lodewijk

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Shanmugam Pachamuthu 
wrote:

> If it's ok with everyone, can we update this
> 
>  table with
> visa status (Approved, Rejected, In progress)?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>
>> Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?
>>
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>> As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
>> rejected.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jayanta Nath
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas  wrote:
>>
>>> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
>>> subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
>>> belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
>>> where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
>>> of citizens/residents of those countries.
>>>
>>> This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
>>> Wikimania, let us stick to that please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dhaval
>>>
>>> On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
>>> > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship
>>> (Egypt,
>>> > 2008), without particular problems.
>>>
>>> that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
>>> (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
>>> support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
>>> and other human rights.
>>>
>>> And cs, just to quote enwp:
>>>
>>> “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
>>> National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
>>> 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
>>> political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
>>> activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
>>>
>>> The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
>>> even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
>>> conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
>>>
>>> Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
>>> (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
>>> number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
>>> for a conference.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> DaB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
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> Thanks & Regards,
> Shanmugam Pachamuthu.
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Shanmugam Pachamuthu

If it's ok with everyone, can we update this

table with
visa status (Approved, Rejected, In progress)?


On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>
> As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
> rejected.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jayanta Nath
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas  wrote:
>
>> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
>> subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
>> belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
>> where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
>> of citizens/residents of those countries.
>>
>> This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
>> Wikimania, let us stick to that please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dhaval
>>
>> On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
>> > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
>> > 2008), without particular problems.
>>
>> that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
>> (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
>> support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
>> and other human rights.
>>
>> And cs, just to quote enwp:
>>
>> “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
>> National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
>> 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
>> political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
>> activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
>>
>> The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
>> even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
>> conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
>>
>> Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
>> (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
>> number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
>> for a conference.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> DaB.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Harry Mitchell

It strikes me that it would be helpful to focus on how we can improve the
visa process for attendees from (predominantly) African and Asian countries
rather than trying to find a utopia that has a very relaxed visa policy
*and* a palatable government *and* political stability *and* modern
infrastructure/transport links *and* is not excessively expensive for most
people to get to. It's certainly not helpful t pounce on people for making
good-faith suggestions, even if you think the suggestion is ludicrous.
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread Béria Lima

Out of how many people who tried for a visa from those countries?

On Jul 3, 2017 14:09, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:

As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
rejected.

Regards,

Jayanta Nath

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas  wrote:

> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
> subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
> belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
> where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
> of citizens/residents of those countries.
>
> This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
> Wikimania, let us stick to that please.
>
> Thanks,
> Dhaval
>
> On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
> > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
> > 2008), without particular problems.
>
> that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
> (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
> support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
> and other human rights.
>
> And cs, just to quote enwp:
>
> “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
> National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
> 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
> political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
> activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
>
> The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
> even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
> conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
>
> Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
> (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
> number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
> for a conference.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-04 Thread DaB.

Hello,
Am 03.07.2017 um 19:04 schrieb Dhaval S. Vyas:
> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
> subject suggests?

it was cs who tried to advertise a unfit country – where were you
„please stick to the topic“-mail then?

And sorry that telling the truth COULD hurt some feelings. There is this
arabic saying that you can’t carry the torch of truth through a throng
without burning some beards.

And no, you don’t need to answer. Learning that some people in the
movements support dictatorships was bad enough for this week.

Sincerely,
DaB.




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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread Jayanta Nath

As per latest update: from India 4 Indian, 3 Armenian and 3/2 African
rejected.

Regards,

Jayanta Nath

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Dhaval S. Vyas  wrote:

> Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
> subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
> belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
> where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
> of citizens/residents of those countries.
>
> This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
> Wikimania, let us stick to that please.
>
> Thanks,
> Dhaval
>
> On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
> > DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
> > 2008), without particular problems.
>
> that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
> (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
> support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
> and other human rights.
>
> And cs, just to quote enwp:
>
> “Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
> National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
> 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
> political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
> activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
>
> The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
> even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
> conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
>
> Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
> (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
> number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
> for a conference.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread Dhaval S. Vyas

Can we please not keep this thread dedicated to the discussion that the
subject suggests? What European medias has shown and what any individual's
belief for any country of the world could be fun to discuss on social media
where more people can join. These kind of personal views can hurt feelings
of citizens/residents of those countries.

This thread started with the issues faced in getting visa to this year's
Wikimania, let us stick to that please.

Thanks,
Dhaval

On 3 Jul 2017 17:18, "DaB."  wrote:

Hello,
Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
> DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
> 2008), without particular problems.

that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
(especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
and other human rights.

And cs, just to quote enwp:

“Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”

The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.

Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
(dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
for a conference.

Sincerely,
DaB.

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread DaB.

Hello,
Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
> DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
> 2008), without particular problems. 

that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event
(especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you
support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech
and other human rights.

And cs, just to quote enwp:

“Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the
National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the
2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned
political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup
activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”

The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you
even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the
conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.

Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems
(dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high
number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable
for a conference.

Sincerely,
DaB.




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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread Jane Darnell

Yes I was wondering about that. Helping people with visa applications is
not a Wikimedia specialty (though I appreciate the work that has gone into
the meta Learning patterns and those Wikipedia pages on visa policy that
were linked earlier).

I am thinking that maybe we need local collaboration on visa issues through
our chapter representatives with e.g. local conference holders? Maybe in
local academia?

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Ilario Valdelli <
ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

> And to progress the best is to don’t forget some interesting points
> already defined in the previous emails.
>
>
>
> One factual point is to have locally a mature and stable organization that
> can manage Visas and related problems with visas.
>
>
>
> So, instead of speaking about dictatorships, the best is to stress this
> point.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org>
> *Sent: *03 July 2017 04:43
> *To: *Wikimania general list (open subscription)
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
>
>
>
> DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
> 2008), without particular problems.
>
>
>
> But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of
> countries. I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.
>
>
>
>A.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:
>
> Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  I’ve lived here for
> nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you
> prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that
> still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
>
> Kudpung
> > On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. <w...@dabpunkt.eu> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
> >> a country like  Thailand where I  live
> >
> > you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> > second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> > war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
> >
> > Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> > the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > DaB.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> > PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
> >
> > ___
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>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>  Mail
> priva di virus. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
> <#m_-8796327857715561708_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread Peter Southwood

A country that almost everyone can go to is important

A country that most can afford to go to is important

A country where most can reasonably  expect to be reasonably safe is important. 

Without these the purpose of the event cannot be achieved

Safety is often a matter of choosing where you go and what you do. There is no 
utopia available. If you are so privileged that you can afford to go anywhere 
and don’t have visa problems anywhere, lucky you, but you don’t have to assume 
we are all in that situation.

Managing visa applications is the issue we are trying to deal with here (see 
the thread title), Advice that actually has some chance of practical 
applicability to this specific problem is welcome. For the rest please start 
another thread.

Personal prejudice against the local regime is a personal choice, and less 
important if the previous requirements are met.

Cheers,

Peter

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Ilario Valdelli
Sent: Monday, 03 July 2017 10:02 AM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

And to progress the best is to don’t forget some interesting points already 
defined in the previous emails.

One factual point is to have locally a mature and stable organization that can 
manage Visas and related problems with visas.

So, instead of speaking about dictatorships, the best is to stress this point.

Kind regards

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

From: Asaf Bartov <mailto:abar...@wikimedia.org> 
Sent: 03 July 2017 04:43
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) 
<mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), 
without particular problems. 

But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of countries. 
I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.

   A.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  I’ve lived here for nearly 20 
years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with 
its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to 
this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.

Kudpung
> On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. <w...@dabpunkt.eu> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>> a country like  Thailand where I  live
>
> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>
> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
> --
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread Jonathan Cardy

Number of countries not requiring a visa is a misleading metric, some visas are 
basically a tourist tax paid on entry to the country and some are a filter 
system to keep out anyone who might overstay and become an illegal migrant. 
That's before you get into the issue of some countries being much more 
important to us than others. For example India has several thousand times the 
population of Iceland.

We have had previous discussions on this over the years and I remember people 
giving figures as to the number of Visa refusals for Hong Kong, London and DC. 
All three were problems, and that's before you count the people who don't apply 
because they have good reason to believe they won't get a visa for that country.

I appreciate there are several other factors to worry about, we don't want 
Wikimania in a war zone, typhoon, or where there is a risk of wikimedians being 
arrested for their sexual orientation or views on religion, and we do need it 
to be close to a well connected international airport.

But it would be good to give more weight to the visa issue, and maybe invite 
some national tourist boards to pitch for a Wikimania with one of the criteria 
being their openness to such a global event.

Regards

Jonathan


> On 2 Jul 2017, at 23:17, Amir Ladsgroup  wrote:
> 
> Number of countries that can enter a country without visa is not a good 
> measurement for a country being visa-friendly. Let's use your example. Per 
> what you said it seems Israel is a more visa friendly country than Italy 
> which is not correct. It's correct Israel allows more people to visit without 
> visa but 1- For a handful number of countries visiting Israel is not an 
> option at all (like mine which has twenty years in jail when I come back) 2- 
> if we pass that point, they are really difficult on giving visa to 
> Muslim/Arab countries passport holders. 3- The border control is very harsh 
> and can deny entry on strange reasons even with valid visa or passport of a 
> not-visa-needed country. What you just need is to look slightly non-Western 
> and they give you hell in border. It happened in a recent Wikimedia event.
> 
> Best
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:33 AM Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please 
>> look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check 
>> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) 
>> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
>> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
>> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or equivalent
>> * Mexico: 67
>> * UK: 91
>> * Italy: 93
>> * Hong Kong: 144
>> (Some other countries mentioned here)
>> * Australia: 34
>> * Thailand: 78
>> * Israel: 96
>> 
>> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the 
>> last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, 
>> Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia 
>> chapter.
>> 
>> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly 
>> or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Mykola (NickK)
>> 
>> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
>> Від кого: "DaB." 
>> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>> 
>>  Hello,
>> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>> 
>> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
>> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
>> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>> 
>> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
>> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> DaB.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
>> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-03 Thread Ilario Valdelli

And to progress the best is to don’t forget some interesting points already 
defined in the previous emails.

One factual point is to have locally a mature and stable organization that can 
manage Visas and related problems with visas.

So, instead of speaking about dictatorships, the best is to stress this point.

Kind regards

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Asaf Bartov
Sent: 03 July 2017 04:43
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), 
without particular problems. 

But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of countries. 
I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.

   A.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:
Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  I’ve lived here for nearly 20 
years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with 
its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to 
this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.

Kudpung
> On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. <w...@dabpunkt.eu> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>> a country like  Thailand where I  live
>
> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>
> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
> --
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Asaf Bartov

DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt,
2008), without particular problems.

But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of
countries. I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.

   A.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs  wrote:

> Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  I’ve lived here for
> nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you
> prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that
> still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
>
> Kudpung
> > On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB.  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
> >> a country like  Thailand where I  live
> >
> > you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> > second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> > war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
> >
> > Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> > the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > DaB.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> > PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
> >
> > ___
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> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread cs

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?  I’ve lived here for nearly 20 
years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with 
its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to 
this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to. 

Kudpung
> On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB.  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>> a country like  Thailand where I  live
> 
> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
> 
> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
> 
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
> 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Mykola Kozlenko

I would rather say it should not be the only measure. Of course Israel is a 
very special case (and so are countries whose governments ban Israeli citizens 
from entering their countries).

Other than that we have multiple measures of visa-friendliness:
* number of countries whose citizens do not need to apply for a visa
* availability of embassies abroad, particularly in countries that are not 
visa-free (say, Canada has an extensive network of embassies all over the 
world, including countries whose citizens need visas)
* visa application rejection rate
* frequency of denial of entry at border control.


I do not intend to promote any country, I just want everyone to be fair and do 
not call a country "visa-friendly" if in reality more than half of countries 
need visas there, and vice versa.
* A visa-friendly country looks like this: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Maldives
* A country that is not visa-friendly looks like this: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_North_Korea


Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "Amir Ladsgroup" 
Дата: 3 липня 2017, 00:17:31


Number of countries that can enter a country without visa is not a good 
measurement for a country being visa-friendly. Let's use your example. Per what 
you said it seems Israel is a more visa friendly country than Italy which is 
not correct. It's correct Israel allows more people to visit without visa but 
1- For a handful number of countries visiting Israel is not an option at all 
(like mine which has twenty years in jail when I come back) 2- if we pass that 
point, they are really difficult on giving visa to Muslim/Arab countries 
passport holders. 3- The border control is very harsh and can deny entry on 
strange reasons even with valid visa or passport of a not-visa-needed country. 
What you just need is to look slightly non-Western and they give you hell in 
border. It happened in a recent Wikimedia event.

Best


On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:33 AM Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:

Hi,

For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look 
what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check 
https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) 
Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
(Five latest Wikimania hosts)
* Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or equivalent
* Mexico: 67
* UK: 91
* Italy: 93
* Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
* Australia: 34
* Thailand: 78
* Israel: 96


Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the 
last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, 
Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia 
chapter.


Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or 
not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.


Thanks
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "DaB." 
Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44




Hello,
Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>  a country like  Thailand where I  live

you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?

Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.

Sincerely,
DaB.


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Amir Ladsgroup

Number of countries that can enter a country without visa is not a good
measurement for a country being visa-friendly. Let's use your example. Per
what you said it seems Israel is a more visa friendly country than Italy
which is not correct. It's correct Israel allows more people to visit
without visa but 1- For a handful number of countries visiting Israel is
not an option at all (like mine which has twenty years in jail when I come
back) 2- if we pass that point, they are really difficult on giving visa to
Muslim/Arab countries passport holders. 3- The border control is very harsh
and can deny entry on strange reasons even with valid visa or passport of a
not-visa-needed country. What you just need is to look slightly non-Western
and they give you hell in border. It happened in a recent Wikimedia event.

Best

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:33 AM Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please
> look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
> equivalent
> * Mexico: 67
> * UK: 91
> * Italy: 93
> * Hong Kong: 144
> (Some other countries mentioned here)
> * Australia: 34
> * Thailand: 78
> * Israel: 96
>
> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
> Wikimedia chapter.
>
> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly
> or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
>
> Thanks
> Mykola (NickK)
>
> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
> Від кого: "DaB." 
> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>
> Hello,
> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>
> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>
> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
> --
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Mykola Kozlenko

Hi,

For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look 
what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check 
https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) 
Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
(Five latest Wikimania hosts)
* Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or equivalent
* Mexico: 67
* UK: 91
* Italy: 93
* Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
* Australia: 34
* Thailand: 78
* Israel: 96


Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the 
last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, 
Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia 
chapter.


Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or 
not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.


Thanks
Mykola (NickK)

--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого: "DaB." 
Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44


Hello,
Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>  a country like  Thailand where I  live

you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?

Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.

Sincerely,
DaB.


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread DaB.

Hello,
Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>  a country like  Thailand where I  live

you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?

Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.

Sincerely,
DaB.


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread cs

I  think  this  another good argument  for  holding  Wikimania in  a country 
like  Thailand where I  live,  that  has one of the most  open travel  doors in 
 the world. The nationals of most  countries can arrive here without  any  
special  documentation except  of course a valid passport, and stay  for  at  
least  two  weeks. All they  might  be asked for  on  arrival  is to  show 
their return air ticket. 

Kudpung

> On 2Jul, 2017, at 17:26, Jonathan Cardy  wrote:
> 
> Sadly not just Canada.
> 
> I know the UK keeps the passport of applicants while they process the visa, 
> and Georgians applying for a UK visa will have that processed in Ankara. 
> Though the 8 weeks is slow for a visitor visa, not much chance to attend a 
> funeral with that.
> 
> On a more practical note, this is a recurring problem - we certainly had 
> issues in London and I know there have been other venues where there have 
> been problems. Would it be possible to find some venues that are generally 
> open for visitors and rotate Wikimania between them? Or at worst rotate 
> Wikimania between closed and open countries. We are a global movement and if 
> some of us have visa issues it should be are a problem for all of us.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jonathan 
> 
> 
> On 2 Jul 2017, at 08:13, Mardetanha  > wrote:
> 
>> Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan 
>> and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
>> Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan. 
>> some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
>> and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris.
>> so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and 
>> sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, 
>> they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not 
>> make any travels.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mardetanha
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell > > wrote:
>> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are 
>> having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely 
>> newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in 
>> particular is pretty shocking to me.
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan > > wrote:
>> Hello all, 
>> 
>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 
>> from the  Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents 
>> were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 
>> 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca  page it says that 
>> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without 
>> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because 
>> of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On 
>> June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this 
>> reply:  Your application  is under review. Processing times can take longer 
>> when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be 
>> confirmed. You will be notified once  a decision is  made. 
>> 
>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline 
>> is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the 
>> Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett > > wrote:
>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
>> > these countries.
>> 
>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>> 
>>“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>> greatest pride is
>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>> life and be part
>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>> religion you practice,
>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>> 
>>
>> http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk 
>> 
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Jonathan Cardy

Sadly not just Canada.

I know the UK keeps the passport of applicants while they process the visa, and 
Georgians applying for a UK visa will have that processed in Ankara. Though the 
8 weeks is slow for a visitor visa, not much chance to attend a funeral with 
that.

On a more practical note, this is a recurring problem - we certainly had issues 
in London and I know there have been other venues where there have been 
problems. Would it be possible to find some venues that are generally open for 
visitors and rotate Wikimania between them? Or at worst rotate Wikimania 
between closed and open countries. We are a global movement and if some of us 
have visa issues it should be are a problem for all of us.



Regards

Jonathan 


> On 2 Jul 2017, at 08:13, Mardetanha  wrote:
> 
> Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan 
> and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
> Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan. 
> some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
> and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris.
> so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and 
> sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, 
> they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not 
> make any travels.
> 
> 
> 
> Mardetanha
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are 
>> having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely 
>> newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in 
>> particular is pretty shocking to me.
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello all, 
>>> 
>>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 
>>> from the  Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents 
>>> were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 
>>> 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens 
>>> of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's 
>>> already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain 
>>> delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I 
>>> wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply:  Your 
>>> application  is under review. Processing times can take longer when 
>>> verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be 
>>> confirmed. You will be notified once  a decision is  made. 
>>> 
>>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline 
>>> is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the 
>>> Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett  
 wrote:
 On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
  wrote:
 
 > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
 > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies 
 > from
 > these countries.
 
 Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
 
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
 greatest pride is
 that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
 life and be part
 of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
 religion you practice,
 or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
 

 http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
 
 --
 Andy Mabbett
 @pigsonthewing
 http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
 
 ___
 Wikimania-l mailing list
 Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards
>>> Armine Aghayan
>>> 
>>> Wikipedia Editor
>>> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the 
>>> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>>> 
>>> +374 77209096
>>> 
>>> +374 43053700
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> arminehagha...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> armine.agha...@mtcit.am
>>> 
>>> armine.agha...@wikimedia.am
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Amir E. Aharoni

2017-06-22 13:57 GMT+03:00 Lodewijk :
>
> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
year, so that we know in comparison?
>
> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>

Heh, I'm not sure whether it was positive or negative :)

Jokes aside, this involved A LOT of work from the Haifa organizing team.
Many months before the event Wikimedia Israel people (not me) contacted the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, explained to them what kind of event this is,
and what kind of people come to it. The Ministry contacts were friendly and
cooperative and suggested a process and an invitation letter.

Then, when the actual event was coming closer (May–June or so), yours truly
spent about two weeks doing nothing but sleeping, eating, and helping
hundreds of people get visas. Luckily, I was employed very part-time back
then and I could easily afford to volunteer for this. I mostly followed the
process that the ministry suggested, but I also remember very-late-night
Skype calls with participants from faraway timezones who had trouble
filling forms (different forms in each consulate!) and writing special
invitation letters for participants that represents highly respected
international organizations. Days before the event I remember more
surprising international phone calls from my country's representatives in
consulates, airports, and border-crossings around the world—sometimes
asking about Wikipedians I knew in person, and sometimes about people whom
I had to look up in lists of participants and verify that they're legit (in
case you're wondering, they all were).

As far as _I_ know, there were two rejections in 2011, but there may have
been others I don't know about.

I've been telling this story every time I had a chance to talk to Wikimania
organizers after 2011. Visa rejections come up every year at least since
2010, the year I started following Wikimania. The current version of the
Wikimania Handbook [1] also refers to this: "Visa assistance—This is
probably one of the most time-consuming and complicated thing to
consider... Writing these letters is a full-time job". While writing this
email I added: "... a full-time job for about two weeks or even more", and
I moved the suggested time for this to April–May instead of May–June.

The Wikimania Handbook is awesome, and it's written based on real
experience—future organizers should take it seriously. (I'm _not_ implying
that the 2017 organizers didn't take it seriously. I acknowledge that it's
complicated and that every country is different.)

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Handbook

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Jane Darnell

That makes it sound even worse (creepy even, given the 8 weeks and counting
time frame)

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Mardetanha 
wrote:

> Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran,
> Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
> Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan.
> some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
> and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris
> .
> so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and
> sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process,
> they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can
> not make any travels.
>
>
>
> Mardetanha
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are
>> having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely
>> newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in
>> particular is pretty shocking to me.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8,
>>> 2017 from the  Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My
>>> documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to
>>> Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that
>>> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without
>>> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review.
>>> Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen
>>> Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and
>>> have this reply:  Your application  is under review. Processing times
>>> can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for
>>> completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once  a decision is
>>> made.
>>>
>>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa
>>> deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to
>>> now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
  wrote:

 > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
 global
 > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
 embassies from
 > these countries.

 Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:

“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
 greatest pride is
 that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
 life and be part
 of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
 religion you practice,
 or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select
 ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celeb
 rations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962

 --
 Andy Mabbett
 @pigsonthewing
 http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

 ___
 Wikimania-l mailing list
 Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Armine Aghayan
>>>
>>> Wikipedia Editor
>>> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
>>> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>>>
>>> +374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
>>>
>>> +374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
>>>
>>>
>>> arminehagha...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> armine.agha...@mtcit.am
>>>
>>> armine.agha...@wikimedia.am
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Mardetanha

Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran,
Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara.
Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan.
some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow
and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris
.
so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and
sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process,
they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can
not make any travels.



Mardetanha

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are
> having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely
> newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in
> particular is pretty shocking to me.
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8,
>> 2017 from the  Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My
>> documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to
>> Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that
>> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without
>> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review.
>> Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen
>> Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and
>> have this reply:  Your application  is under review. Processing times
>> can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for
>> completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once  a decision is
>> made.
>>
>> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa
>> deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to
>> now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global
>>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
>>> from
>>> > these countries.
>>>
>>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>>>
>>>“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>>> greatest pride is
>>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>>> life and be part
>>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>>> religion you practice,
>>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>>>
>>>http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select
>>> ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celeb
>>> rations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Mabbett
>>> @pigsonthewing
>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Armine Aghayan
>>
>> Wikipedia Editor
>> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
>> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>>
>> +374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
>>
>> +374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
>>
>>
>> arminehagha...@gmail.com
>>
>> armine.agha...@mtcit.am
>>
>> armine.agha...@wikimedia.am
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Jane Darnell

Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are
having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely
newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in
particular is pretty shocking to me.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8,
> 2017 from the  Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My
> documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to
> Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that
> documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without
> transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review.
> Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen
> Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and
> have this reply:  Your application  is under review. Processing times can
> take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for
> completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once  a decision is
> made.
>
> On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline
> is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the
> Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
>> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>>  wrote:
>>
>> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>> global
>> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
>> from
>> > these countries.
>>
>> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>>
>>“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
>> greatest pride is
>> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
>> life and be part
>> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
>> religion you practice,
>> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>>
>>http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select
>> ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-
>> celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
> Armine Aghayan
>
> Wikipedia Editor
> Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
> Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
>
> +374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
>
> +374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
>
>
> arminehagha...@gmail.com
>
> armine.agha...@mtcit.am
>
> armine.agha...@wikimedia.am
>
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-02 Thread Armine Aghayan

Hello all,

I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017
from the  Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents
were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May
15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens
of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's
already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain
delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I
wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply:  Your
application  is under review. Processing times can take longer when
verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be
confirmed. You will be notified once  a decision is  made.

On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline
is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the
Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
>  wrote:
>
> > The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> > south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
> from
> > these countries.
>
> Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
>
>“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
> greatest pride is
> that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
> life and be part
> of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
> religion you practice,
> or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
>
>http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/
> selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-
> canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

-- 

Best Regards
Armine Aghayan

Wikipedia Editor
Leading Human Resourses specialist at the
Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA

+374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>

+374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>

arminehagha...@gmail.com

armine.agha...@mtcit.am

armine.agha...@wikimedia.am
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-01 Thread Andy Mabbett

On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
 wrote:

> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
> these countries.

Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:

   “Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our
greatest pride is
that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good
life and be part
of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what
religion you practice,
or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-07-01 Thread Mardetanha

today I found out another wikimedian from Iraq was also rejected because of
"purpose of trip", I highly believe this stem from our invitation letter
which is from WFM not a local entity. why should an American foundation
invite someone to Canada ?
it would be great if others could update us about their visa situation

Mardetanha

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Cornelius Kibelka <
cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> While preparing the report for the last Wikimedia Conference (which we
> will publish on Friday), Daniela Gentner, our logistics coordinator, has
> written a detailed learning pattern about how to support participants in
> getting a (German) Schengen visa for the Wikimedia Conference. While it is
> certainly focused on German processes, many steps and tips are applicable
> by any organizer in any country.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,
> _Communication,_Preparation:_How_to_support_your_event_
> participants_in_the_best_way_to_get_a_Schengen_Visa
>
> Maybe this is could be a good start to collect resources and material
> around this topic for future events.
>
> Happy reading & sharing,
> Cornelius
>
>
> On 27 June 2017 at 02:49, Pine W  wrote:
>
>> The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please
>> see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
>>
>> Pine
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put
>>> tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able
>>> to help someone in a particular region.   If someone wants to start this
>>> I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
>>>
>>> Ellie
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
 Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
 because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
 want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
 case:

 - Participants:
  -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
 should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
 people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
 This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
 remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
 chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
 it.
  -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of
 my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
 embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
 the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
 the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
 Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
  -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
 Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
 positive feelings.
  -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
 year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
 travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
 but let's hope to meet them soon.

 -WMF:
   -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
 support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
 to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
 and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
 (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
 documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
 need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
 rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
 people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
   -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
 multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
 very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
 easier.

 Local chapters:
  -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process
 of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle
 it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
 sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
 increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
 usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process,

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-27 Thread Cornelius Kibelka

Hello all,

While preparing the report for the last Wikimedia Conference (which we will
publish on Friday), Daniela Gentner, our logistics coordinator, has written
a detailed learning pattern about how to support participants in getting a
(German) Schengen visa for the Wikimedia Conference. While it is certainly
focused on German processes, many steps and tips are applicable by any
organizer in any country.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,_Communication,_Preparation:_How_to_support_your_event_participants_in_the_best_way_to_get_a_Schengen_Visa

Maybe this is could be a good start to collect resources and material
around this topic for future events.

Happy reading & sharing,
Cornelius


On 27 June 2017 at 02:49, Pine W  wrote:

> The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please
> see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young 
> wrote:
>
>> I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put
>> tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able
>> to help someone in a particular region.   If someone wants to start this
>> I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
>>
>> Ellie
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
>>> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
>>> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
>>> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
>>> case:
>>>
>>> - Participants:
>>>  -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
>>> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
>>> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
>>> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
>>> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
>>> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
>>> it.
>>>  -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of
>>> my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
>>> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
>>> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
>>> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
>>> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>>>  -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
>>> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
>>> positive feelings.
>>>  -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
>>> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
>>> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
>>> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>>>
>>> -WMF:
>>>   -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
>>> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
>>> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
>>> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
>>> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
>>> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
>>> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
>>> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
>>> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>>>   -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
>>> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
>>> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> Local chapters:
>>>  -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process
>>> of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle
>>> it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
>>> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
>>> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
>>> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
>>> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
>>> ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>>
 On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:



 On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
 wrote:

> I have a few comments:
> 1)
> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-26 Thread Pine W

The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please
see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.

Pine


On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young  wrote:

> I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put
> tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able
> to help someone in a particular region.   If someone wants to start this
> I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
>
> Ellie
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup 
> wrote:
>
>> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
>> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
>> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
>> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
>> case:
>>
>> - Participants:
>>  -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
>> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
>> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
>> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
>> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
>> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
>> it.
>>  -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
>> friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
>> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
>> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
>> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
>> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>>  -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
>> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
>> positive feelings.
>>  -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
>> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
>> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
>> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>>
>> -WMF:
>>   -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
>> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
>> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
>> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
>> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
>> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
>> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
>> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
>> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>>   -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
>> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
>> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
>> easier.
>>
>> Local chapters:
>>  -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process
>> of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle
>> it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
>> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
>> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
>> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
>> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>>
>> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
>> ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have a few comments:
 1)
 We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
 Jean-Philippe said:
 "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
 to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
 chapter in doing this."
 The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
 said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
 was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
 acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
 that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
 event.

>>>
>>> Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
>>> the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
>>> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
>>> agree how important it

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-25 Thread Ellie Young

I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put tips,
samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able to
help someone in a particular region.   If someone wants to start this I'd
be happy to add, edit, etc.

Ellie


On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup  wrote:

> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
> case:
>
> - Participants:
>  -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
> it.
>  -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
> friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>  -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
> positive feelings.
>  -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>
> -WMF:
>   -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>   -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
> easier.
>
> Local chapters:
>  -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of
> visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it
> perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>
> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>
> Best
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
> ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few comments:
>>> 1)
>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
>>> to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>>> chapter in doing this."
>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>> event.
>>>
>>
>> Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
>> the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
>> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
>> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
>> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.
>>
>>
>> Hi Ellie,
>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>> but this model can

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-25 Thread Peter Southwood

Hi Amir,

If you do write something up, please let me know so I can link from Wikimania 
2018 site.

Cheers,

Peter

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Zana Strkovska
Sent: Sunday, 25 June 2017 1:49 AM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

 

Hi Amir,

 

I found your experience with visa issue very edifying.

You can write a study case for this matter. Do not wait for opening centralized 
place on meta to share what you know about how to get a visa. 

 

Regards,

Zana

 

2017-06-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup <ladsgr...@gmail.com>:

As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one 
Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other 
because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want 
to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:

 

- Participants:

 -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should 
be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are 
more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in 
some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the 
invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection 
of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it.

 -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my 
friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, 
when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa 
ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you 
will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to 
make things legal)

 -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention 
Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have 
positive feelings.

 -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's 
Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to 
Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope 
to meet them soon.

 

-WMF:

  -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support 
and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events 
and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't 
know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) 
so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have 
seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa 
and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them 
in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this 
knowledge to others.

  -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple 
entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for 
European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.

 

Local chapters:

 -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa 
for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly 
and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to 
come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of 
rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an 
immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs 
to make sure these consults happen.

 

Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.

 

Best

 

 

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> 
wrote:

On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:

 

 

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabr...@thullen.com> wrote:

I have a few comments:
1)
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe 
said:
"A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF 
to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in 
doing this."

The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I 
will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted 
in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back 
on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter 
and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event. 

 

Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the 
original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours truly) 
thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can agree how 
important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino 
Lario and Mexico City

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-24 Thread Zana Strkovska

Hi Amir,

I found your experience with visa issue very edifying.
You can write a study case for this matter. Do not wait for opening centralized
place on meta to share what you know about how to get a visa.

Regards,
Zana

2017-06-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup :

> As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
> Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
> because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
> want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
> case:
>
> - Participants:
>  -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
> should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
> people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
> This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
> remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
> chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
> it.
>  -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
> friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
> embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
> the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
> the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
> Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
>  -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
> Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
> positive feelings.
>  -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
> year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
> travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
> but let's hope to meet them soon.
>
> -WMF:
>   -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
> support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
> to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
> and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
> (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
> documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
> need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
> rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
> people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
>   -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
> multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
> very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
> easier.
>
> Local chapters:
>  -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of
> visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it
> perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
> sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
> increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
> usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
> to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
>
> Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
>
> Best
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
> ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few comments:
>>> 1)
>>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>>> Jean-Philippe said:
>>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request
>>> to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>>> chapter in doing this."
>>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being
>>> said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid
>>> was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not
>>> acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe
>>> that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania
>>> event.
>>>
>>
>> Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
>> the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
>> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
>> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
>> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.
>>
>>
>> Hi Ellie,
>> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
>> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
>> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-24 Thread Amir Ladsgroup

As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one
Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other
because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I
want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this
case:

- Participants:
 -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you
should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of
people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help.
This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I
remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local
chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed
it.
 -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my
friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the
embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got
the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to
the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and
Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
 -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention
Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have
positive feelings.
 -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this
year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to
travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event
but let's hope to meet them soon.

-WMF:
  -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal,
support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going
to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said
and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place
(probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa
documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends
need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets
rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of
people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
  -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one
multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is
very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way
easier.

Local chapters:
 -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of
visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it
perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but
sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which
increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They
usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs
to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.

Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.

Best


On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli <
ilario.valde...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

> On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a few comments:
>> 1)
>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>> Jean-Philippe said:
>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
>> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>> chapter in doing this."
>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
>> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
>> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
>> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
>> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>>
>
> Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
> the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.
>
>
> Hi Ellie,
> This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a
> decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance,
> but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature
> organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
>
> A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a
> commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and
> perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
>
> Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local
> organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
>
> But

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-24 Thread Ilario valdelli


On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:



On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen > wrote:


I have a few comments:
1)
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
Jean-Philippe said:
"A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the
request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not
coordinate with the chapter in doing this."
The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is
being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that
the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter
support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of
the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and
volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.


Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues 
with the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee 
(including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.   
 I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local 
chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of 
course  South Africa coming up.




Hi Ellie,
This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a 
decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, 
but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature 
organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.


A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a 
commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and 
perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).


Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* 
local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.


But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact 
on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something 
fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a 
chapter.


Kind regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch



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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Gnangarra

I would think that once a location is chosen the first step would be for
the WMF to immediately open up discussions with the relevant Authority to
ensure that scholarships recipients have sufficient paperwork and time to
get approval as well as any assurances or processing options can be put in
place.  If there is a limit put on the number of attendee then at least
that can be in the open so people know and if people already have visa that
enable them to attend they could at least present this as part of the
application.

Ideally an Affiliate would be the best situated to do such things but  this
then raises issues about the status of User Groups which are designed not
to have the bureaucracy of chapters and therefore wont necessarily have the
same legal standing to support visa applications or even advocate for them.



On 24 June 2017 at 10:19, Risker  wrote:

> Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
> you are having in obtaining visas to this country.  I am really looking
> forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
> am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
> visas.
>
> The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
> advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
> (most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
> advance).  But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
> change significantly.  I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
> handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
> something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
> made.  I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
> in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
> Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
> would be helpful in getting visas.
>
> I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to
> come to Canada.  We will all be losing the value of your company, and you
> will be missed.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond  wrote:
>
>> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
>> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
>> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>>
>> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
>> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
>> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
>> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
>> wrote:
>>
>> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
>> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
>> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>>
>> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
>> countries.
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
>> User:Amqui
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>>
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>>
 I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
 respective countries.

 Jayanta Nath

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 Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>>
>> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
>> , chapitre national
>> soutenant Wikipédia
>> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
>> , national chapter
>> supporting Wikipedia
>> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Risker

Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
you are having in obtaining visas to this country.  I am really looking
forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
visas.

The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
(most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
advance).  But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
change significantly.  I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
made.  I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
would be helpful in getting visas.

I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to come
to Canada.  We will all be losing the value of your company, and you will
be missed.

Risker/Anne

On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond  wrote:

> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>
> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> , chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> , national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jayanta Nath

So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?

++   this is the big issue.

On 24-Jun-2017 6:58 AM, "Kerry Raymond"  wrote:

> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>
> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> , chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> , national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Kerry Raymond

So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R to 
grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P thinks 
that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?

I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely compelling 
reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and it is not clear 
to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the real life identity of 
the user they want to attend in any case.

Kerry 

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland  
> wrote:
> 
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in 
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not 
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
> 
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of 
> countries.
> 
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S  wrote:
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I 
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And 
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country. 
>> 
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of 
>>> respective countries. 
>>> 
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> 
>   Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada, chapitre national soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada, national chapter supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Mohamed Ibrahim

I believe this was not the best decision to make, I can understand handling
recipients' financials and some other logistics through WMF. But clearly
visas should have been handled by some entity in Canada. We ran into some
problems in 2008 (limited number as Egypt is a touristic country in the
first place), but the library of Alexandria was of a great help to issue
letters of invitation.
Sometimes it's not even up to the organizing committee. I was invited to
Taiwan, 2007 and couldn't go due to the diplomatic ties complications.
Overall, I don't mind having wikimanias in Canada and the US but I hope
that the visa application process for attendees would be given high
priority during bidding time.

Cheers,
Mido

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 17:20, Jean-Philippe Béland 
wrote:

> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> , chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> , national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
-- 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Felix Nartey

A lot of great suggestions and comments have been shared on here, but just
to add unto that.

One thing I know for sure that works is having an invitation letter from
say the WMF and the Local Organising Organisation. It is also very useful
to often include mayors of towns, states and cities where the conferences
will happen.

This is one the very reasons why ICANN conferences are usually successful
in terms of attendance, you get these two letters and an endorsement from
say a mayor and that carries a lot of weight. I know this was also done for
Wikimania Esino Lario and this could have accounted for its, low rejection
rates.

Cheers,

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Ellie Young  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a few comments:
>> 1)
>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>> Jean-Philippe said:
>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
>> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>> chapter in doing this."
>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
>> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
>> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
>> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
>> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>>
>
> Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
> the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.
>
> 2)
>> Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
>> aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
>> "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
>> country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
>> service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
>> government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
>> an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
>> conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
>> a few times and they are really very helpful.
>>
>
> The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for
> trouble-shooting to no avail.   I spent many hours and it wasn't possible.
> A service agency was not a possibility.  They have a new system and I have
> to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people.They follow very
> much the model of the United States.It is the major reason   why we
> don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries.  ( The last
> one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. )   For the scholarship program:  we had
> relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance...
> the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told
> it was high);  the next was London (9);  Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong
> Kong - 1.
>
> As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot
> of people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a
> timely manner.
>
> And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important
> criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.
>
>
>
> 3)
>> The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
>> recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
>> countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
>> can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
>> expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
>> embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
>> pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
>>
>
> We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is
> usually sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that
> time).  Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in
> getting all the paperwork and information in process shortly after that.
> We set up a system this year that required people to send us proof that
> they had filed by May 15.   If they need paper, we send paper.   We even
> support people having to travel to other countries to apply.Even so, it
> is often the individual embassies that are big part of the problem in
> securing approval.   
>
>>
>>
>> Gabriel
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
>>> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Ellie Young

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
wrote:

> I have a few comments:
> 1)
> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
> Jean-Philippe said:
> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
> chapter in doing this."
> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>

Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.

2)
> Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
> aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
> "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
> country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
> service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
> government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
> an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
> conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
> a few times and they are really very helpful.
>

The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for
trouble-shooting to no avail.   I spent many hours and it wasn't possible.
A service agency was not a possibility.  They have a new system and I have
to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people.They follow very
much the model of the United States.It is the major reason   why we
don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries.  ( The last
one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. )   For the scholarship program:  we had
relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance...
the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told
it was high);  the next was London (9);  Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong
Kong - 1.

As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot of
people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a timely
manner.

And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important
criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.

3)
> The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
> recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
> countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
> can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
> expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
> embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
> pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
>

We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is usually
sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that time).
Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in getting all
the paperwork and information in process shortly after that.   We set up a
system this year that required people to send us proof that they had filed
by May 15.   If they need paper, we send paper.   We even support people
having to travel to other countries to apply.Even so, it is often the
individual embassies that are big part of the problem in securing approval.

>
>
> Gabriel
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive  wrote:
>
>> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
>> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
>> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>>
>> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
>> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
>> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
>> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
>> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
>> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
>> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
>> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
>> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
>> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>>
>> What exactly I point

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Gabriel Thullen

I have a few comments:
1)
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
Jean-Philippe said:
"A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
chapter in doing this."
The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
2)
Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
"visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
a few times and they are really very helpful.
3)
The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...

Gabriel

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive  wrote:

> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>
> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>
> What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
> experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
> Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
> may help to get visa easily.
>
> Hasive
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
>> I suggest you direct your questions to vi...@wikimedia.org. Those
>> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
>> than on this mailing list I think.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
>>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jayanta
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
> User: Hasive  |
> GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
> 
> Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia
> 
> Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh 
> fb.com/Hasive  | @nhasive
>  | www.nhasive.com
>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Nurunnaby Hasive

Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!

I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
and attend Wikimania Mexico.

What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
may help to get visa easily.

Hasive

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:

> I suggest you direct your questions to vi...@wikimedia.org. Those
> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
> than on this mailing list I think.
>
> JP
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jayanta
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

-- 
*Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
User: Hasive  |
GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752

Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia 
Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh 
fb.com/Hasive  | @nhasive
 | www.nhasive.com
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland

I suggest you direct your questions to vi...@wikimedia.org. Those requests
were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on
this mailing list I think.

JP

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Ilario valdelli

Interesting.

You are right and you don't have to blame and there is no sense to 
excuse the current rejection of visas.

Instead of speaking always of a division Global North and Global South 
there should be a support for your action to save an important event 
like Wikimania.

Kind regards

On 23/06/2017 16:24, Jean-Philippe Béland wrote:
Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in 
Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal 
Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have 
Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in 
doing this. As a chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right 
now to ensure a smooth conference, but I don't think it is fair to 
blame the chapter for not doing this.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
User:Amqui

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk > wrote:

I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year
over year, so that we know in comparison?

There are of course many factors that go into venue selection -
one of them is visa (another is security, political stability
etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were
the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the
foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know
if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean
that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection
rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well,
WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey > wrote:

This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more
seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from
the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto
early this year.

This should inform future selection for all conference venues
as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at
international conferences.

Cheers,

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra
> wrote:

These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that
have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with
middle eastern attendees to Cape Town .  Acknowledging
that the change was because of the amount effort put in by
unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing
that some things need to be opened for community
discussion before decisions are made.

 That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants
to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the
scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another
place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.

On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs > wrote:

That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok,
Thailand, for 2019 - apart  from its extremely
tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost, while
being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible
by  direct  flights from most  parts of the world.
Almost  everyone can enter the country  for  at  least
 15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes it
difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in
the country  on the pretext  of being  tourists.

It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this
will open up the possibility to some refused
scholarship applications.

Kudpung.

On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
> wrote:

Hi,

The main topic of discussion among the scholarship
recipients from global south this month is the high
visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these
countries.

This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from
Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from
Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
from Indian part of the communities got their visa
rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping
for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
may be news of more rejections are coming soon.

Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly
country, and

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Ranjith S

Hai,

My thought is - at first Canada is a tough country to get VISA for people
from Asia, Africa and other 3rd world countries. They like only people with
USA,UK Visa. Then the invitation problem it was from USA. No mention about
an organisation in Canada. Third the Canadian embassy is reject more visas
than accepting them from all the third world countries. So Canada is a very
bad choice for an international conference like Wikimania. Also Other
strict VISA Rule countries like USA, UK, China, Australia etc. Seeking some
friendly countries are good for better participation. My rejection reason
was current economic conditions and family ties. (I submitted my marriage
certificate and bank statement for that). After all we are staying in
Canada for a week and WMF is sponsoring us. But they still saying the
economic condition is no right.

Regards,

*Ranjith Siji*
Smashing Web
www.smashingweb.info 

Chat Google Talk: ranjith.sajeev Skype: ranjith.sajeev

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Lodewijk

Hi Jayanta,

please be careful to make judgement calls without knowing all the facts.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jayanta Nath

Hi,

I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation?
In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it
would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from
USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my knowledge in every
year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting
countries.

Regards,
Jayanta
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Lodewijk

Hi Jean-Philippe,

just to be clear: I'm not trying to blame WMCA for anything. 'being able to
accomplish that' includes having the expertise and manpower. It would be
great if you could help with visa issues, but given the situation, that is
just not always possible.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland  wrote:

> Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in
> Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal
> Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in
> Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a
> chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth
> conference, but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing
> this.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
>> year, so that we know in comparison?
>>
>> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
>> them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
>> that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
>> organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
>> country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
>> accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
>> necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
>> serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey  wrote:
>>
>>> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
>>> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
>>> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>>>
>>> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it
>>> allows for poor representation of the Global South at international
>>> conferences.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>>>
 These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
 firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
 Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
 in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
 things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
 made.

  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first
 obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
 Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
 a big issue.

 On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:

> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for
> 2019 - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low
> cost, while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by
>  direct  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter
> the country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only
> makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the 
> country
>  on the pretext  of being  tourists.
>
> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>
> Kudpung.
>
> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
> embassies from these countries.
>
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship 
> recipients
> from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
> waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
> recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
> presented.
>
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland

Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in Montreal,
so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now
defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and
they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a chapter, we
are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth conference,
but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing this.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
User:Amqui


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk 
wrote:

> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
> year, so that we know in comparison?
>
> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
> them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
> that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
> organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
> country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
> accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
> necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
> serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey  wrote:
>
>> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
>> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
>> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>>
>> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it
>> allows for poor representation of the Global South at international
>> conferences.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>>
>>> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
>>> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
>>> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
>>> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
>>> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
>>> made.
>>>
>>>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain
>>> a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
>>> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
>>> a big issue.
>>>
>>> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:
>>>
 That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019
 - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
 while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
 country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
 it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
 the pretext  of being  tourists.

 It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
 possibility to some refused scholarship applications.

 Kudpung.

 On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
 bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi,

 The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
 global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
 embassies from these countries.

 This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
 from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
 waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
 recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.

 Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
 those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
 for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
 presented.

 Best wishes,
 Bodhisattwa
 ___
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GN.
>>> President Wikimedia Australia
>>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>> *Cofounder/Director Finance &

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Ranjith S

My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.

On 22-Jun-2017 8:59 PM, "Ivan Martínez"  wrote:

> Following the Stuart's commentary, for Mexico City the low rate of
> rejection was not for free. I supposed my country was a friendly
> destination because their history welcoming people from all over the world
> until I was involved in the visa process for many wikimedians who faced
> different kind of issues. So I was engaged with WMF's staff to provide any
> evidence and documents to make fast responses to reduce the chances of
> rejection. Among the issues we had:
>
> - A really annoying insistence of the consular authorities of Mexico
> rejecting documents in digital copies. We had to send many hard copies via
> express mail services
> - Consular officers insisted on proving in some way that the Wikimedia
> Foundation has funds against possible contingencies of the attendees. This
> was mainly because many of the officials who received the documents did not
> know anyything about Wikipedia and its fame. I remember me talking on
> conventional telephone several times from Mexico City to New Delhi to give
> more information.
> - Lack of Mexican embassies in all the attendees countries, so some people
> needs to travel to other country to the nearest embassy to get visa, so,
> chances of fail getting documents and doing procedures in other country
> which is not yours is risky.
>
> In any case, having prior time is the only antidote. Some situations can
> be solved, but with anticipated time. Rules are rules and in consular
> proceedings much more no matter the country where the event will held and
> this is not really attributable to the people who are working supporting
> the process doing their best.
>
>
>
> 2017-06-22 9:34 GMT-05:00 Nkansah Rexford :
>
>> In addition, providing this *true assistance* won't be for *all*
>> attendees. In many cases, only a select few of the total attendees will
>> have the visa-related issues.
>>
>> Thus, say out of 100 applicants, just less than 20 individuals might need
>> the assistance beyond the letter at their local embassies. And over and
>> over again, we know these countries that yearly present visa troubles for
>> applicants.
>>
>> And since it can be relatively easier for individuals with relatively
>> high travel history to get visas, the actual people who might need this
>> dedicated assistance can drop further.
>>
>> rex
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Nkansah Rexford 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna
>>> work. The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might
>>> come up.
>>>
>>> Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed,
>>> but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations
>>> (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
>>>
>>> Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is,
>>> has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
>>>
>>> And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the
>>> invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
>>>
>>> It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge
>>> that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
>>>
>>> Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one
>>> could do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright
>>> side, won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
>>>
>>> rex
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find
 out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the
 past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)

 Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem
 lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard
 to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting
 documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.

 To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
 beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
 sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
 for a start.
 The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
 hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
 process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
 easy to overpromise and underdeliver.

 What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
 developing communities, but

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Ranjith S

My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.

On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:

> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
> respective countries.
>
> Jayanta Nath
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Ivan Martínez

Following the Stuart's commentary, for Mexico City the low rate of
rejection was not for free. I supposed my country was a friendly
destination because their history welcoming people from all over the world
until I was involved in the visa process for many wikimedians who faced
different kind of issues. So I was engaged with WMF's staff to provide any
evidence and documents to make fast responses to reduce the chances of
rejection. Among the issues we had:

- A really annoying insistence of the consular authorities of Mexico
rejecting documents in digital copies. We had to send many hard copies via
express mail services
- Consular officers insisted on proving in some way that the Wikimedia
Foundation has funds against possible contingencies of the attendees. This
was mainly because many of the officials who received the documents did not
know anyything about Wikipedia and its fame. I remember me talking on
conventional telephone several times from Mexico City to New Delhi to give
more information.
- Lack of Mexican embassies in all the attendees countries, so some people
needs to travel to other country to the nearest embassy to get visa, so,
chances of fail getting documents and doing procedures in other country
which is not yours is risky.

In any case, having prior time is the only antidote. Some situations can be
solved, but with anticipated time. Rules are rules and in consular
proceedings much more no matter the country where the event will held and
this is not really attributable to the people who are working supporting
the process doing their best.



2017-06-22 9:34 GMT-05:00 Nkansah Rexford :

> In addition, providing this *true assistance* won't be for *all*
> attendees. In many cases, only a select few of the total attendees will
> have the visa-related issues.
>
> Thus, say out of 100 applicants, just less than 20 individuals might need
> the assistance beyond the letter at their local embassies. And over and
> over again, we know these countries that yearly present visa troubles for
> applicants.
>
> And since it can be relatively easier for individuals with relatively high
> travel history to get visas, the actual people who might need this
> dedicated assistance can drop further.
>
> rex
>
>
> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Nkansah Rexford 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work.
>> The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come
>> up.
>>
>> Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed,
>> but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations
>> (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
>>
>> Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is,
>> has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
>>
>> And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the
>> invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
>>
>> It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge
>> that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
>>
>> Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one
>> could do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright
>> side, won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
>>
>> rex
>>
>> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find
>>> out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the
>>> past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
>>>
>>> Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol).
>>> But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to
>>> bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation,
>>> i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
>>>
>>> To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
>>> beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
>>> sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
>>> for a start.
>>> The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
>>> hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
>>> process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
>>> easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
>>>
>>> What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
>>> developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a
>>> Wikimania location.
>>> One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively
>>> expensive to get to/stay in for another.
>>> So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident
>>> of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
>>>
>>> Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Nkansah Rexford

In addition, providing this *true assistance* won't be for *all* attendees.
In many cases, only a select few of the total attendees will have the
visa-related issues.

Thus, say out of 100 applicants, just less than 20 individuals might need
the assistance beyond the letter at their local embassies. And over and
over again, we know these countries that yearly present visa troubles for
applicants.

And since it can be relatively easier for individuals with relatively high
travel history to get visas, the actual people who might need this
dedicated assistance can drop further.

rex

On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Nkansah Rexford 
wrote:

> Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work.
> The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come
> up.
>
> Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed,
> but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations
> (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
>
> Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is,
> has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
>
> And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the
> invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
>
> It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge
> that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
>
> Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one could
> do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright side,
> won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
>
> rex
>
> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior  > wrote:
>
>> Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find
>> out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the
>> past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
>>
>> Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol).
>> But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to
>> bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation,
>> i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
>>
>> To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
>> beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
>> sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
>> for a start.
>> The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
>> hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
>> process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
>> easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
>>
>> What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
>> developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a
>> Wikimania location.
>> One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively
>> expensive to get to/stay in for another.
>> So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident
>> of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
>>
>> Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I
>> can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance.
>>> As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough
>>> Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases
>>> could be low.
>>>
>>> Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and
>>> submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the
>>> invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
>>>
>>> In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US
>>> embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how
>>> nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a
>>> sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had
>>> NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia
>>> is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
>>>
>>> Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
>>>
>>> As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what
>>> extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just
>>> the letter?
>>>
>>> Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations
>>> that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead
>>> of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever
>>> they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
>>>
>>> The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the
>>>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Peter Southwood

What problems are expected for middle eastern attendees to Cape Town? What 
countries passports are expected to have problems?

Cheers,

Peter

 

From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Gnangarra
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 12:14 PM
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

 

These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly 
with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town .  
Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by 
unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to 
be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.  

 

 That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa 
before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.  Perth/Australia is 
another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.

 

On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs <c...@edubkk.org> wrote:

That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart 
 from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost, while being  
a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct  flights from most  
parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the country  for  at  least  15  
days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting 
to stay longer (years) in the country  on the pretext  of being  tourists.

 

It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the 
possibility to some refused scholarship applications. 

 

Kudpung.

On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

 

Hi,

The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south 
this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these 
countries.

This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India 
and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian 
part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I 
am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of 
more rejections are coming soon. 

Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those 
countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 
6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented. 

Best wishes,
Bodhisattwa

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-- 

GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Image removed by sender.

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread ilario.valdelli

Esino Lario too. 
There was a plan to transit people through Switzerland like second option using 
the Maastricht's agreement. As I know this option was not used.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Stuart Prior 
<stuart.pr...@wikimedia.org.uk> Date: 22/06/2017  13:24  (GMT+01:00) To: 
"Wikimania general list (open subscription)" <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections 
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My 
gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 
years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)

Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But 
some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any 
influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't 
even talk to a human being about it.

To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts 
beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help 
sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a 
start. 
The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds 
of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into 
that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise 
and underdeliver. 

What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing 
communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. 
One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to 
get to/stay in for another. 
So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of 
this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.

Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't 
think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)

Stuart 

On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexf...@gmail.com> wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As 
much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa 
support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all 
the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. 
However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy 
here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it 
looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with 
black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia 
was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I 
had in front of the teller-like counter. 
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is 
the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick 
up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to 
initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've 
invited fits in the about-to-happen event. 
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the 
applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still 
struggle getting accepted visa. 
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away. 
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because 
the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the 
embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south 
this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these 
countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India 
and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian 
part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I 
am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of 
more rejections are coming soon. 
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those 
countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 
6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented. 
Best wishes,

Bodhisattwa


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Stuart Prior  wrote:

> Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find
> out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the
> past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
>

That would be good for perspective - I don't know any better than that
there are complaints about scholarship rejections each year. Mexico may
indeed have been the 'easiest'. But of course, rejections don't only happen
to scholarship recipients, but also to self- or externally funded
participants. I can imagine you won't have access to that data unless it's
reported, though.


>
> Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol).
> But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to
> bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation,
> i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
>
> To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
> beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
> sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
> for a start.
> The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
> hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
> process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
> easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
>
> What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
> developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a
> Wikimania location.
> One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive
> to get to/stay in for another.
> So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident
> of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
>
> Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I
> can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
>
> Stuart
>
> On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford 
> wrote:
>
>> It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance.
>> As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough
>> Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases
>> could be low.
>>
>> Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit
>> all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation
>> letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
>>
>> In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US
>> embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how
>> nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a
>> sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had
>> NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia
>> is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
>>
>> Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
>>
>> As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what
>> extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just
>> the letter?
>>
>> Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations
>> that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead
>> of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever
>> they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
>>
>> The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the
>> applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
>>
>> This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still
>> struggle getting accepted visa.
>>
>> It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
>>
>> rex
>>
>> PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just
>> because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious
>> with the embassy.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>> embassies from these countries.
>>>
>>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
>>> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
>>> from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
>>> waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
>>> recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>>>
>>> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
>>> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
>>> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Nkansah Rexford

Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work.
The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come
up.

Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed, but
a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations
(keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.

Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is,
has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?

And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the
invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?

It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge that
also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.

Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one could
do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright side,
won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?

rex

On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior 
wrote:

> Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find
> out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the
> past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
>
> Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol).
> But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to
> bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation,
> i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
>
> To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
> beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
> sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
> for a start.
> The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
> hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
> process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
> easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
>
> What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
> developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a
> Wikimania location.
> One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive
> to get to/stay in for another.
> So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident
> of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
>
> Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I
> can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
>
> Stuart
>
> On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford  > wrote:
>
>> It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance.
>> As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough
>> Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases
>> could be low.
>>
>> Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit
>> all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation
>> letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
>>
>> In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US
>> embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how
>> nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a
>> sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had
>> NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia
>> is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
>>
>> Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
>>
>> As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what
>> extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just
>> the letter?
>>
>> Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations
>> that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead
>> of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever
>> they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
>>
>> The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the
>> applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
>>
>> This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still
>> struggle getting accepted visa.
>>
>> It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
>>
>> rex
>>
>> PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just
>> because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious
>> with the embassy.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>> embassies from these countries.
>>>
>>>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Deryck Chan

In 2013, a number of Wikimania attendees had their Hong Kong visas stuck in
the pipeline at the local Chinese embassies with no response to any
enquiry. A month before Wikimania, a local sponsor of Wikimania 2013
(DotAsia) agreed to be guarantor and negotiated directly with the
Immigration Department of Hong Kong to secure the visas. The visas were
then sent by registered mail to attendees. Much of that work involved me
personally going to the Immigration Department headquarters in Hong Kong
every working day for several weeks to get the paperwork right. In the end,
we saved about a dozen visa applications and only one person was unable to
come to Hong Kong due to visa issues.

I'm not sure about the Canadian system, but it is likely that Wikimedia
Canada and the Wikimania committee can request the visa-issuing authorities
in Canada to review the applications. The first steps would be to check who
the relevant authorities are, and to ask all applicants with rejected visa
applications to send the Wikimania organisers the details of rejection.

Re GN - Visa processes are usually the reverse of what you suggested.
Normally the host organisation issues their invitation, confirms travel and
accommodation arrangements, then the applicant goes to the relevant
embassy. It is not feasible to apply for a visa before one makes travel
arrangements.

Deryck

On 22 June 2017 at 11:13, Gnangarra  wrote:

> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
> made.
>
>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a
> visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
> a big issue.
>
> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:
>
>> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 -
>> apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
>> while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
>>  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
>> country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
>> it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
>> the pretext  of being  tourists.
>>
>> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
>> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>>
>> Kudpung.
>>
>> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
>> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
>> these countries.
>>
>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from
>> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from
>> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting.
>> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
>> may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>>
>> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
>> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
>> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
>> presented.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Bodhisattwa
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>
>
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Stuart Prior

Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out.
My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past
4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)

Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol).
But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to
bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation,
i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.

To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts
beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help
sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity
for a start.
The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from
hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support
process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be
easy to overpromise and underdeliver.

What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our
developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a
Wikimania location.
One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive
to get to/stay in for another.
So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of
this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.

Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I
can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)

Stuart

On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford  wrote:

> It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance.
> As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough
> Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases
> could be low.
>
> Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit
> all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation
> letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
>
> In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US
> embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how
> nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a
> sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had
> NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia
> is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
>
> Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
>
> As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what
> extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just
> the letter?
>
> Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that
> pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of
> time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever
> they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
>
> The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the
> applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
>
> This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still
> struggle getting accepted visa.
>
> It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
>
> rex
>
> PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just
> because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious
> with the embassy.
>
> On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
>> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
>> these countries.
>>
>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from
>> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from
>> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting.
>> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
>> may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>>
>> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
>> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
>> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
>> presented.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Nkansah Rexford

It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As
much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa
support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be
low.

Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit
all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation
letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.

In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US
embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how
nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a
sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had
NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia
is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.

Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!

As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what
extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just
the letter?

Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that
pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of
time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever
they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.

The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the
applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.

This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still
struggle getting accepted visa.

It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.

rex

PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just
because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious
with the embassy.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
> these countries.
>
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from
> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from
> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting.
> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
> may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those
> countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a
> 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
>
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Lodewijk

I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over year,
so that we know in comparison?

There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of them
is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that
I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers
sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get
some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that.
But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad
rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well,
WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey  wrote:

> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>
> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows
> for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
>> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
>> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
>> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
>> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
>> made.
>>
>>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain
>> a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
>> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
>> a big issue.
>>
>> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:
>>
>>> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019
>>> - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
>>> while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
>>>  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
>>> country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
>>> it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
>>> the pretext  of being  tourists.
>>>
>>> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
>>> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>>>
>>> Kudpung.
>>>
>>> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
>>> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
>>> embassies from these countries.
>>>
>>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
>>> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
>>> from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
>>> waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
>>> recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>>>
>>> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
>>> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
>>> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Bodhisattwa
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> President Wikimedia Australia
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Felix Nartey*
> *Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin*
> *Open Foundation West Africa *
> *+233242844987 <+233%2024%20284%204987> | +447440959477
> <+44%207440%20959477>*
> *Skype:Flixtey*
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Felix Nartey

This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.

This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows
for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.

Cheers,



On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:

> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
> made.
>
>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a
> visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
> a big issue.
>
> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:
>
>> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 -
>> apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
>> while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
>>  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
>> country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
>> it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
>> the pretext  of being  tourists.
>>
>> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
>> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>>
>> Kudpung.
>>
>> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
>> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
>> these countries.
>>
>> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from
>> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from
>> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting.
>> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
>> may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>>
>> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
>> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
>> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
>> presented.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Bodhisattwa
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>
>
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


-- 
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*Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin*
*Open Foundation West Africa *
*+233242844987 | +447440959477*
*Skype:Flixtey*
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Gnangarra

These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
made.

 That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a
visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
a big issue.

On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:

> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 -
> apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
> while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
>  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
> country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
> it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
> the pretext  of being  tourists.
>
> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>
> Kudpung.
>
> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
> these countries.
>
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from
> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from
> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting.
> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
> may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those
> countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a
> 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
>
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


-- 
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread cs

That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart 
 from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost, while being  
a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct  flights from most  
parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the country  for  at  least  15  
days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting 
to stay longer (years) in the country  on the pretext  of being  tourists.

It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the 
possibility to some refused scholarship applications. 

Kudpung.
> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global 
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from 
> these countries.
> 
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from 
> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from 
> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. 
> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may 
> be news of more rejections are coming soon.
> 
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those 
> countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 
> 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
> 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-22 Thread Leon Liesener

+1, I'm as well shocked to hear of so many unsuccessful visa applications this 
year.

Regards,
Leon

> Am 2017-06-22 um 11:23 schrieb Bodhisattwa Mandal 
> :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global 
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from 
> these countries.
> 
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from 
> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from 
> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. 
> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may 
> be news of more rejections are coming soon.
> 
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those 
> countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 
> 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
> 
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