[Wikimedia-l] Iceland: Country specific copyright issue regarding artistic photographs
49th Article of the Icelandic Copyright Act states ( http://eng.menntamalaraduneyti.is/media/MRN-pdf/he-Copyright-Act.pdf) : *Article 49* *The reproduction of photographs, which do not enjoy the protection of this Act for works of art as provided for in * *the second paragraph of Article 1, is prohibited without the consent of the photographer or the party who has * *acquired his rights. [Furthermore, the publication of such photographs without the permission of the rightholder * *shall be prohibited.]1) If such a photograph is presented to the public on a commercial basis or for profit the * *photographer, or the subsequent holder of his rights, shall be entitled to remuneration. The protection of a * *photograph in accordance with this paragraph shall apply until [50 years]2) have elapsed from the end of the year * *in which it was taken.* *The provisions of Chapter II of this Act shall also apply as appropriate to the photographs referred to in the first * *paragraph.* The second paragraph of the first article referenced provided copyright for artistic work. It is therefore my understanding that the 49th article is intended to cover non-artistic photographs. That begs the question as to how Icelandic courts define artistic photographs. In a ruling from November 27. 2008 Reykjavík District Court found that photographs taken at a public place using a mobile of the movie director Quentin Tarantino were not artistic. ( http://www.domstolar.is/domaleit/nanar/?ID=E200802042Domur=2type=1Serial=1 ) *It is therefore my contention that non-artistic photographs taken before January 1. 1963 are in the public domain.* * * I have sought the advice of a lawyer specialising in copyright and he agrees with this estimate. I want to put this to the test by taking photographs taken by Ólafur K. Magnússon (1926-1997) a photographer for the newspaper Morgunblaðið taken at riots on March 30th 1949 when the Icelandic parliament voted for Iceland to be a founding member of NATO. See: http://www.mbl.is/mm/frettir/myndasyrpa.html?cat_id=4;album=634 It is obviously a central issue whether a photograph is artistic or not. Should the photos be considered artistic the copyright does not expire until (1997+70=2067). I have sent a query to Morgunblaðið, which still holds the photographs, and the man who takes care of the photographic archive did not agree that the photos are non-artistic (I suspect this is his personal opinion). There is little history of contending the 49. article, I believe the example cited above is the only one (When I contacted the curator of the Reykjavík Photographic Museum she had not heard of the 49th article). So, do I upload to Commons? the Icelandic Wikipedia with a caveat (This photo is reproduced under the assumption that the 49th article of the Copyright Act of 1972 applies)? Both? Best, Hrafn Malmquist ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Chapters report June 2013 Wikimedia Sverige
The chapters report for June 2013 has been published on our wikihttp://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_reports/2013-06 . *HIGHLIGHTS:* - Joint board meeting between Wikimedia Sverige and Wikmedia Norge where experiences were shared and future cooperations discussed. - Accreditation to the Royal wedding. - Several edit-a-thons in the Europeana Awareness project. *GROWTH:* - Editors involved in chapter activities: 70+ - Media uploaded: 884 files - Persons engaged in workshops and seminars: 12 - New chapter members: 5 Swedish Wikipedia passed 1,000,000 articles 14 June which sparked a global community wide discussion on bot-generated articles. *Best regards, Jan Ainali* CEO, Wikimedia Sverige http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida +46 729 67 29 48 ___ Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia community. For more information about Wikimedia-l: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Questions for the WMF Board of Trustees?
Hi Phoebe, thanks for pointing to this! I see that this year we only have one hour of board QA. I have always seen a lot of value in these board discussions, especially when it can come to actually that: discussions. As there are several discussion sessions scheduled, without a specific topic, would you and perhaps a few other board members be willing to commit to use some of these sessions to dig a bit deeper into a few specific topics? For example, would there be three board members willing to have a round table discussion about transparency and openness at a board level? Or perhaps the technical strategy (at a board level)? If we could do that in somewhat smaller groups (max 50 people), maybe even parallel, I think we could finally engage in truly helpful and constructive discussions. It would of course require a neutral discussion facilitator each time, but I'm sure we'd be able to arrange that somehow? We could then flag those discussion topics during the QA even. Best, Lodewijk 2013/7/29 phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com Hi all, Every year at Wikimania the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees hosts a panel where they take questions from the audience on the work of the WMF and the Board. In past years the board has also taken questions via IRC. This year we'd also like to provide the opportunity to leave questions on a wiki page ahead of time: http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Board_Q%26A While there is only time to answer a few questions during the session itself, hopefully this will be a good way of getting questions from attendees as well as from those who can't make it. The board will also take questions from the audience at Wikimania, as time permits. Remember the Board doesn't deal directly with work on or problems on the projects, and does not have a direct hand in how the WMF operates day-to-day. Rather, the board thinks about the big picture, and gives direction on strategy for the WMF. You can find out more about what the board does (and does not do) here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_handbook best, phoebe -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Questions for the WMF Board of Trustees?
Hi Lodewijk, Thanks for the idea! I can't commit right now that anyone will be able to do this (all the trustees have a busy schedule and are pulled in lots of different directions during Wikimania) but we might be able to schedule a session or two (though since the schedule is so packed with good sessions, it will be difficult to find a slot!) I will bring it up. Maybe we can figure out what topics people are most interested in discussing via the wiki. I'd be interested in a discussion about WMF strategy and planning for the future, personally. Also, everyone should feel free to say hello to any of the trustees during Wikimania, if you don't already know us :) best, Phoebe On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.orgwrote: Hi Phoebe, thanks for pointing to this! I see that this year we only have one hour of board QA. I have always seen a lot of value in these board discussions, especially when it can come to actually that: discussions. As there are several discussion sessions scheduled, without a specific topic, would you and perhaps a few other board members be willing to commit to use some of these sessions to dig a bit deeper into a few specific topics? For example, would there be three board members willing to have a round table discussion about transparency and openness at a board level? Or perhaps the technical strategy (at a board level)? If we could do that in somewhat smaller groups (max 50 people), maybe even parallel, I think we could finally engage in truly helpful and constructive discussions. It would of course require a neutral discussion facilitator each time, but I'm sure we'd be able to arrange that somehow? We could then flag those discussion topics during the QA even. Best, Lodewijk 2013/7/29 phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com Hi all, Every year at Wikimania the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees hosts a panel where they take questions from the audience on the work of the WMF and the Board. In past years the board has also taken questions via IRC. This year we'd also like to provide the opportunity to leave questions on a wiki page ahead of time: http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Board_Q%26A While there is only time to answer a few questions during the session itself, hopefully this will be a good way of getting questions from attendees as well as from those who can't make it. The board will also take questions from the audience at Wikimania, as time permits. Remember the Board doesn't deal directly with work on or problems on the projects, and does not have a direct hand in how the WMF operates day-to-day. Rather, the board thinks about the big picture, and gives direction on strategy for the WMF. You can find out more about what the board does (and does not do) here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_handbook best, phoebe -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
Dear friends, On German Wikipedia, our dear Superbass has contributed a short opinion piece on the principal resistance against the Visual Editor. I think that it should be withhold from you, and I hope that my translation transfers its wit. Ziko Let us not fool ourselves: The imperfection of the Visual Editor will have an end once; the legitimate arguments to hide it from public will loose their strike capablity. Maybe in half a year, maybe after one whole year, one will implement the thing. What then? Will anybody be capable to contribute? Why did I swot for months to learn wiki code, can now - with some copy and paste and consulting three help pages - code a nearly flawless sortable table and even build a reference without any tool. Was that all for nothing? Will we then stand on a Medieval Fair, alongside coopers, tinkers, charburners, stenographs and Brockhaus editors, and tell children how Wikipedia has been made once? And in the meanwhile every Tom, Dick and Harry edits without any programming skills our articles. Professor of German, ethnologist emeritus and clerk at eye level with students of computer science, supported by a trivialised input interface. My grandma does professional image editing, champagne can be purchased at Walmart, the type setter is replaced by a content management system and now democratization, or even, ragtagization of Wikipedia. No lemons help, but don't worry, the last fortress still stands: our set of rules which we have set up with our bare hands from dull basic principles. Complex, convoluted, and permanently differentiating itself, it will also in future distinguish the pimpf from the pro, and hold back the gentrification of the free online encyclopedia. At least, as long as the Foundation creates no tool for that, too. Machen wir uns nichts vor: Die Unvollkommenheit des Visual Editors wird irgendwann ein Ende haben; die berechtigten Argumente, ihn noch vor der Öffentlichkeit zu verstecken, verlieren an Schlagkraft. Vielleicht in einem halben Jahr, vielleicht in einem ganzen, dann wird man das Ding einsetzen. Was kommt dann? Kann dann hier jeder mitmachen? Wozu habe ich mir monatelang Wikicode erschlossen, kann inzwischen – mit etwas Copy and Paste und Nachschlagen auf drei Hilfeseiten – fast fehlerfrei eine sortierbare Tabelle coden und sogar ohne Hilfsmittel einen Einzelnachweis bauen. War das alles umsonst? Können wir uns dann zu den Küfernhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCfer, Kesselflicker http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesselflicker, Köhlernhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6hler, Stenotypisten http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotypist und Brockhausredakteuren auf den Handwerkermarkt stellen und den Kindern zeigen, wie man früher Wikipedia gemacht hat? Und währenddessen bearbeiten Krethi und Plethi bar jeder Programmierkenntnis unsere Artikel. Germanistikprofessor, pensionierte Ethnologin und Sachbearbeiter auf Augenhöhe mit Informatikstudenten, mittels eines trivialisierten Eingabeinterfaces. Meine Oma macht professionelle Bildbearbeitung, den Champagner gibts bei Aldi, statt des Schriftsetzershttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schriftsetzerhats ein Content-Management-Systemhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-Management-Systemund jetzt auch noch die Demokratisierung, was red ich, Pöbelisierung der Wikipedia. Da helfen auch keine Zitrusfrüchte, aber keine Sorge, noch steht die letzte Bastion: Unser Regelwerk, das wir mit unserer Hände Arbeit aus kargen Grundprinzipien aufgebaut haben. Komplex, verschachtelt und sich permanent ausdifferenzierend scheidet es auch in Zukunft den Pimpf vom Profi und hält die Gentrifizierung der freien Online-Enzyklopädie auf. Jedenfalls so lange, bis die Foundation auch dafür ein Tool entwickelt. -- Superbass http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Superbass (Diskussionhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_Diskussion:Superbass) 23:13, 28. Jul. 2013 (CEST) Ziko van Dijk voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht http://wikimedia.nl ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Questions for the WMF Board of Trustees?
Phoebe, I am wondering if you (or another board member) would elaborate a little on how you see the Board's role when it comes to the evolving technical development of WMF projects? WMF has articulated a medium- to long-term vision for Mediawiki that builds on projects like VisualEditor, Flow, Echo (notifications), Parsoid, etc. While I don't expect the Board to be in the business of choosing what technology to use, the WMF vision does seem to speak heavily to future changes in what the experience of editing Wikipedia (and other projects) will be like. More visual and mouse based, etc. Is that something the Board ever involves itself in? Given current plans, it seems likely that questions surrounding changes in user experience and the deployment of new technology will be among the most significant issues for the editor community. -Robert Rohde On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 8:31 PM, phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Every year at Wikimania the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees hosts a panel where they take questions from the audience on the work of the WMF and the Board. In past years the board has also taken questions via IRC. This year we'd also like to provide the opportunity to leave questions on a wiki page ahead of time: http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Board_Q%26A While there is only time to answer a few questions during the session itself, hopefully this will be a good way of getting questions from attendees as well as from those who can't make it. The board will also take questions from the audience at Wikimania, as time permits. Remember the Board doesn't deal directly with work on or problems on the projects, and does not have a direct hand in how the WMF operates day-to-day. Rather, the board thinks about the big picture, and gives direction on strategy for the WMF. You can find out more about what the board does (and does not do) here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_handbook best, phoebe -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 07/29/2013 03:30 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: On German Wikipedia, our dear Superbass has contributed a short opinion piece on the principal resistance against the Visual Editor. I think that it should be withhold from you, and I hope that my translation transfers its wit. My poor German suffices to estimate that your translation was close enough, at least, but leaves one question open to my mind: was this meant as satire or was this in earnest? Because if it's the latter, I'm really worried about the health of a community that would actively bemoan greater democratization of a project whose entire /raison d'etre/ was the democratization of knowledge. -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
2013/7/29 Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org Because if it's the latter, I'm really worried about the health of a community that would actively bemoan greater democratization of a project whose entire /raison d'etre/ was the democratization of knowledge. I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption. To let a lot of people edit is mere a very useful tool to provide readers with the sum of all human knowledge rather than a reason for itself. If there are other tools more effective, we ought to investigate them (or make the vision clearer). -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
Don't worry, Marc, Superbass uses irony and is pro VE. Ziko Ziko van Dijk voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht http://wikimedia.nl 2013/7/29 Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org On 07/29/2013 03:30 PM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: On German Wikipedia, our dear Superbass has contributed a short opinion piece on the principal resistance against the Visual Editor. I think that it should be withhold from you, and I hope that my translation transfers its wit. My poor German suffices to estimate that your translation was close enough, at least, but leaves one question open to my mind: was this meant as satire or was this in earnest? Because if it's the latter, I'm really worried about the health of a community that would actively bemoan greater democratization of a project whose entire /raison d'etre/ was the democratization of knowledge. -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali jan.ain...@wikimedia.se wrote: I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption. Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was drafted at the October 2006 Board retreat in Frankfurt and then finalized after community discussion), I can assure you that that was not the intent. I recall that Florence and I talked about that specific aspect a fair bit. We proposed the language share in over given free access to in order to emphasize that it's not a one-directional process (some treasure trove of knowledge that you are given access to), but a process we are creating an opportunity to participate in. It could be made clearer, but that was the intent. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 7/29/2013 1:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali jan.ain...@wikimedia.se wrote: I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption. Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was drafted at the October 2006 Board retreat in Frankfurt and then finalized after community discussion), I can assure you that that was not the intent. I recall that Florence and I talked about that specific aspect a fair bit. We proposed the language share in over given free access to in order to emphasize that it's not a one-directional process (some treasure trove of knowledge that you are given access to), but a process we are creating an opportunity to participate in. It could be made clearer, but that was the intent. In any case, I'm not sure why we'd conclude that making the production of knowledge more widely available is somehow harmful to the cause of making the consumption of knowledge available to everyone. Because the success of Wikipedia has been built on rather the opposite of that. In that context which comes first, production or consumption, is sort of a chicken-or-the-egg question about the origin of network effects. --Michael Snow ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
2013/7/29 Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com On 7/29/2013 1:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali jan.ain...@wikimedia.se wrote: I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption. Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was drafted at the October 2006 Board retreat in Frankfurt and then finalized after community discussion), I can assure you that that was not the intent. I recall that Florence and I talked about that specific aspect a fair bit. We proposed the language share in over given free access to in order to emphasize that it's not a one-directional process (some treasure trove of knowledge that you are given access to), but a process we are creating an opportunity to participate in. It could be made clearer, but that was the intent. In any case, I'm not sure why we'd conclude that making the production of knowledge more widely available is somehow harmful to the cause of making the consumption of knowledge available to everyone. Because the success of Wikipedia has been built on rather the opposite of that. In that context which comes first, production or consumption, is sort of a chicken-or-the-egg question about the origin of network effects. --Michael Snow Firstly, the clarification from Erik is very valuable. Perhaps I am the only one making that interpretation from the wording in the vision statement, but if what Erik say is the intention is correct (and I have no reason to think otherwise) it could perhaps be stressed further to let everyone in the movement be aware of the importance. Michael, I would not say we should conclude that it is harmful, rather I would say (or at least, before Eriks clarification) that we would need to justify why democratization of production as an end would be more important than giving free access to the sum of all human knowledge. As a thought experiment, what if the question is not chicken-or-the-egg, but rather-natural-born-chicken versus science-improved-production-of-hens? Is the nutrition gained for the consuming population less worth than the employment of farmers? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 7/29/2013 2:44 PM, Jan Ainali wrote: 2013/7/29 Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com On 7/29/2013 1:50 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jan Ainali jan.ain...@wikimedia.se wrote: I have not read the vision statement as it is the production of knowledge that need be availible to every human being, but the consumption. Actually, having co-drafted the Vision Statement (it was drafted at the October 2006 Board retreat in Frankfurt and then finalized after community discussion), I can assure you that that was not the intent. I recall that Florence and I talked about that specific aspect a fair bit. We proposed the language share in over given free access to in order to emphasize that it's not a one-directional process (some treasure trove of knowledge that you are given access to), but a process we are creating an opportunity to participate in. It could be made clearer, but that was the intent. In any case, I'm not sure why we'd conclude that making the production of knowledge more widely available is somehow harmful to the cause of making the consumption of knowledge available to everyone. Because the success of Wikipedia has been built on rather the opposite of that. In that context which comes first, production or consumption, is sort of a chicken-or-the-egg question about the origin of network effects. Firstly, the clarification from Erik is very valuable. Perhaps I am the only one making that interpretation from the wording in the vision statement, but if what Erik say is the intention is correct (and I have no reason to think otherwise) it could perhaps be stressed further to let everyone in the movement be aware of the importance. Michael, I would not say we should conclude that it is harmful, rather I would say (or at least, before Eriks clarification) that we would need to justify why democratization of production as an end would be more important than giving free access to the sum of all human knowledge. I don't think anybody is trying to say that democratization of production is more important than free access or even universal free access. But given that the question originated in discussions about the visual editor, I'm not sure why access is being invoked that way, since the editing interface has no direct impact on the reader experience. The collaborative nature of our projects is also one of our important values. It may be more of a means to an end rather than a goal like the vision statement. But in some sense, achieving the sum of all human knowledge requires all humans to collaborate in it. --Michael Snow ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 07/29/2013 06:00 PM, Michael Snow wrote: achieving the sum of all human knowledge requires all humans to collaborate in it +1 This is particularly important as the quality of coverage decreases sharply as you stray further from the interests that coincide with the profile of current editors (male-dominated, Eurocentric, tech-aware). We're not going to get coverage from the perspective of other cultural groups until they participate, and they're not going to participate until we make it possible from them to do so without having to face a wall of wikimarkup. Nostalgia for the good old days of hand-spun wikitables with baroque hacked together syntax notwithstanding. -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] WCA Quest for the Cool Name
Dear all, in its July voting, the WCA has decided to open up membership for thematic organisations and give user groups a voice. If you are a representant of a thematic organisation or a user group and would like to know more about the WCA, feel free to get in touch! Now we're facing a situation where the name (Wikimedia _Chapters_ Association) is inconsistent with who we actually define as our member base. So we need to change name. Our first stab was Association of Organisations. It was not accepted, but hey, I'm not overly sad. I guess, we can do better. But we need your ideas! What's a good name? Put your suggestions here or support a proposed name: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Quest_for_the_Cool_Name Eternal fame awaits you if our suggestion is chosen. Oh, apropos. Decision upon a new name shall be made in Hong Kong on Thursday, August 8th. For those who are wondering what the WCA is doing, here's a short update. We are here to help Wikimedia organisations in their various matters of daily and strategic business. Among the projects we do are: * WCA Journal [1]: a medium to keep up to date in the organisations world * Chapters Manual [2]: a resource to look up any questions regarding operating a Chapter * Peer Review: we offer to double check your organisations strategy, funding requests or projects * Organisations Seminar [3]: Two days packed with experience and discussion about running Chapters and Wikimedia organisations. Best, Markus [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Journal [2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA_Chapters_Manual [3] http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association_-_Organisations_Seminar -- Markus Glaser WCA Council Member (WMDE), Chair Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Changes at the Wikimedia Foundation Fundraising Team
Hi folks, I’m sorry to tell you that Zack Exley has decided he wants to leave the Wikimedia Foundation, although I am glad to say he’s planning to continue contributing his prodigious creative and analytic talents to our fundraising. As of August 30, Zack will no longer be Chief Revenue Officer, but will instead be a part-time consultant and advisor to the WMF fundraising team, in addition to other consulting work he’s planning to take on. We all owe Zack enormous thanks and praise. The year before Zack joined us, the WMF raised USD 16 million in donations, and three years later that has more than tripled to USD 56 million -- and we are doing it in a way that’s 100% consistent with our mission, vision and values. The many-small-donors model preserves the Wikimedia movement’s independence by preventing over-reliance on a small number of people, it enables the WMF to focus on readers and editors without having their needs drowned out by other stakeholders, and it makes us the largest amount of money at the smallest-possible cost. Zack has earned his place in the histories of Wikimedia yet to be written: for the past three years, he has been the single person most responsible for funding the growth of resources for the global movement. Zack is leaving the WMF fundraising team in terrific shape, and I’m very happy to announce I’ll be promoting into the position of Chief Revenue Officer the deputy head of the department, Lisa Seitz Gruwell. Since Lisa joined in 2011, both Zack and I have come to heavily rely on her leadership, managerial and strategic abilities. Lisa has been responsible for foundations and major donors as well as being Zack’s deputy, and over the past two years she and her team have significantly grown revenues without increasing the costs to the organization. This is a big deal: most non-profits need their non-fundraising staff to participate in fundraising efforts, and it’s to Lisa’s credit that her team has figured out how to raise money without that. Lisa is widely respected and trusted. I look forward to her leadership and am confident she will continue Fundraising’s track record of success. We are also promoting Megan Hernandez, who has been the behind-the-scenes creative talent of our last two online campaigns. She will become Director of Online Fundraising, leading all our online work. And we are promoting Sara Lasner to the role of Development Director, where she will lead the foundations and major gifts team that has been Lisa’s responsibility. Congratulations to Megan and Sara. Our fundraising strategy will not change. We will continue to focus on the many-small-donors model, supplemented by unrestricted grants and major gifts. Everything takes effect immediately, except Zack’s official departure which will be August 30. He won't be at Wikimania, but people in the San Francisco Bay Area will get a chance to see him when he comes to town in early September. And of course we'll continue to see him afterwards, in his new relationship with us. I’m very confident in the trio of Lisa, Megan and Sara to lead fundraising for the movement, and I’m delighted Zack will continue to lend his guidance and creativity to our campaigns. Please join me in thanking Zack for everything he has done for the Wikimedia movement and for his continued involvement. And congratulations to Lisa, Megan, and Sara on their well-deserved promotions. Thanks, Sue -- Executive Director, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia community. For more information about Wikimedia-l: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WCA Quest for the Cool Name
Am 30.07.2013 00:48, schrieb Nathan: The process for renaming the WCA is to be completed in two weeks?! That seems totally at odds with its entire history, I wonder if it's turning over a new leaf or if the selection will be subject to criticism for not including enough people / giving sufficient months or years for debate. The WCA is on its way to become an agile organisation ;) The backdoor is: if we can't agree on a new name, we'll continue to operate as WCA. So no harm is done either way. Seriously, I made the experience that people react to these kind of creative polls either at the beginning or at the end of the voting time. So we decided to just skip the time in between. Best, Markus -- Markus Glaser WCA Council Member (WMDE), Chair Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Changes at the Wikimedia Foundation Fundraising Team
Thanks Zack for your hard work over the last few years. There's no questioning the fantastic success in fundraising the WMF has seen during your tenure, and I know I've appreciated your willingness to engage and discuss fundraising issues with members of the community. Good luck with whatever comes next! ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 29 July 2013 23:41, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: Nostalgia for the good old days of hand-spun wikitables with baroque hacked together syntax notwithstanding. MediaWiki wikitext should indeed be set on fire and put in a bin and fired into the sun, with any other horrible and termina fates we can think of. (Though ten billion words of legacy content is a pretty good reason we can't do that.) But one of the unfortunate things about the way the VE rollout's gone is that it's led to people building castles the present otherwise-indefensible disaster of MW wikitext. When what they really need is assurance that a fully capable markup of some sort will remain. Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be deprecated? With a defined set being what is supported? (Some of which will be [[spandrel (biology)|]]s from wikitext literally being defined as what the PCRE code in PHP happens to do, but which editors will have come to rely upon.) Will said set be developed with extensive consultation with, how are staff phrasing it these days, grumpy power users? - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Changes at the Wikimedia Foundation Fundraising Team
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org wrote: We all owe Zack enormous thanks and praise. No kidding - the accomplishments of the fundraising team have been amazing. In addition to supporting WMF's growth and thereby our ability to take on very ambitious and complex projects like VisualEditor, Zack has also optimized practically all other aspects of the fundraiser, including duration/persistence, geographic/cultural diversity of our messaging, storytelling, impact on registered users, etc. He's also been one of the strongest proponents of making decisions informed by data. We still rely on the bursts of insights generated in the Summer of Research, and Zack has helped kickstart many important habits in our work. He's also brought many excellent individuals to WMF, including Lisa, who will be a fantastic CRO. I'm glad Zack will continue to provide insights and support to the fundraising team, and I'll be intrigued to read or hear more about what he does with the rest of his time. :-) All best, Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?
On 05/07/13 22:09, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: The recent community initiative with the highest impact I can think of is surely what Platonides and other members of the global (technical) community did on pt.wiki. Platonides noticed a configuration error on pt.wiki: CAPTCHA was required for all edits since 2008. The error was fixed in April. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/41745 Fresh stats produced by the WMF show that in May and June this produced a decrease of overall vandalism (or rather, of reverted edits) with a shocking +58 % increase of productive edits by IPs and +23 % for registered users. It seems pt.wiki may see the end of the decline after many years. :) https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio(a):HAndrade_(WMF)/Pesquisa_Vandalismo/Segunda_Faseoldid=36301585 Discussion is ongoing on how pt.wiki will address this growth. Part of the community may think that nao estamos preparados para crescer. https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projetos/Wikip%C3%A9dia/Reuni%C3%B5es/Reuni%C3%A3o_IRC_21-06-2013 Note that CAPTCHAs have now been re-enabled on the Portuguese Wikipedia. Erik made the decision, in response to on-wiki consensus. I deployed the change just now. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860#c75 -- Tim Starling ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Changes at the Wikimedia Foundation Fundraising Team
On 29 July 2013 17:41, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org wrote: etc. He's also been one of the strongest proponents of making decisions informed by data. We still rely on the bursts of insights generated in the Summer of Research, and Zack has helped kickstart many important habits in our work. I know! In my first drafts of the announcement, I wrote quite a lot about the Summer of Research and all the insight intelligence Zack brought to understanding the Wikimedia community and its internal workings, as well as the specifics of the editor retention problem. I took it all out because the note got too long, and was really supposed to focus on the Fundraising department as well as just Zack. Thank you for bringing it back up :-) Sue ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Changes at the Wikimedia Foundation Fundraising Team
I know I've been critical of Zack Exley for technical reasons over the past year, but I think very highly of him as a person. If I was recruiting colonists for an interstellar colonization mission, he would likely be in the top 100 based on his accomplishments, orientation, drive, and social skills alone. But even if he weren't, his new project is outstandingly spectacular on its own merits, and I want to urge everyone reading this in or from the U.S. to sign up and join it: http://www.fivethirtysix.org/ I predict that anyone with even a passing interest in U.S. politics who doesn't follow FiveThirtySix will first regret it, and then end up following it afterwards to prevent further such regret. Also, congratulations to Megan and Lisa! Sincerely, James Salsman ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 07/29/2013 07:00 PM, David Gerard wrote: Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be deprecated? I'm not privy to the architecture decisions, but I'm pretty sure that the absolute worst monstrosity is the possibility of opening markup in a (possibly deeply recursive or, worse, conditional) template that is closed in a different template. Getting it rid of /just/ that would lose us no content (though it would break some frankenstein-grade markup) and gain us a couple orders of magnitude in parsoid reliability and simplicity. And probably would make most of the VE team cry in relief. -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Changes at the Wikimedia Foundation Fundraising Team
Congratulations about the new site Zack, and congratulations to Megan, Lisa, and Sara! Dan Rosenthal On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:38 PM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: I know I've been critical of Zack Exley for technical reasons over the past year, but I think very highly of him as a person. If I was recruiting colonists for an interstellar colonization mission, he would likely be in the top 100 based on his accomplishments, orientation, drive, and social skills alone. But even if he weren't, his new project is outstandingly spectacular on its own merits, and I want to urge everyone reading this in or from the U.S. to sign up and join it: http://www.fivethirtysix.org/ I predict that anyone with even a passing interest in U.S. politics who doesn't follow FiveThirtySix will first regret it, and then end up following it afterwards to prevent further such regret. Also, congratulations to Megan and Lisa! Sincerely, James Salsman ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the English Wikipedia, with templates like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:S-start and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:S-end (170,303 transclusions). Thanks, Rschen7754 rschen7754.w...@gmail.com On Jul 29, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: On 07/29/2013 07:00 PM, David Gerard wrote: Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be deprecated? I'm not privy to the architecture decisions, but I'm pretty sure that the absolute worst monstrosity is the possibility of opening markup in a (possibly deeply recursive or, worse, conditional) template that is closed in a different template. Getting it rid of /just/ that would lose us no content (though it would break some frankenstein-grade markup) and gain us a couple orders of magnitude in parsoid reliability and simplicity. And probably would make most of the VE team cry in relief. -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:00 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any wikitext constructions that are actually going to be deprecated? We don't know yet. We try to support almost everything. In addition to the unbalanced templates that Marc mentions, there are templates that literally insert individually meaningless bits of markup (e.g. style=color:#ccc;'' class=foo|Bar, which is partially table markup and partially CSS) into another context like a table or image thumbnail syntax. Especially when talking about widely used templates, we try to support those constructions in Parsoid -- but if community members are open to changing templates and/or template-invoking pages, that will help at least in the short term. We do try to provide information to this effect in bug reports. And yes, these kinds of uses of templates do make the devs cry. If you listen closely when it's quiet and still, you can hear them wail. In the long run, we may have to announce some markup as deprecated, and some of the crazier template uses seem likely candidates. At some point when we switch to the new parser, it would then just stop behaving as with the current MediaWiki parser implementation, with appropriate warning. We're still a long way from that, though. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 07/29/2013 10:02 PM, Rschen7754 wrote: If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the English Wikipedia Oh, it *would* if the syntax was just disabled outright! Now, if it were me that was in charge of fixing wiki markup, this is what I would do: (a) require that syntactic elements opened in a template be closed in that template during transclusion* (without a change in code now; i.e.: deprecate but not enforce yet). (b) provide a mechanism by which templates which do this are categorized/marked and otherwise findable. (c) wait suitably long (d) convert current invalid (according to (a) and identified by (b)) syntax by substituting still transcluded templates inline (thus not breaking content) (e) delete/blank/comment out those templates (f) render the previous syntax invalid (by implicitly closing any syntactic construct at the end of transclusion) (g) provide a list of all the subst done in part (d) to the community so that automated tools can fixup/convert/cleanup with new markup/LUA where applicable. Hopefully, whatever the delay in (c) is would need to be long enough that the more egregious cases or complicated templates have time enough to be transitioned manually, leaving the following subst/cleanup to take care of edge cases and little used templates where the disruption is nowhere as bad. -- Marc * This would include, indirectly, the code fragment templates like Erik describe since they contain fragments meant to be interpreted in the context of an open syntactic element** -- those are trickier to /find/, but (f) would make them pointless. ** Making, potentially, a giant leap towards making wikimarkup context-free which would solve so many problems with parsoid it's not even funny. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
Well, all I know is that we have a couple million instances of {{hat}} and
{{hab}} unbalanced templates, which are used daily on hundreds of pages,
and they serve a very important function.
Risker
On 29 July 2013 22:58, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:
On 07/29/2013 10:02 PM, Rschen7754 wrote:
If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the
English Wikipedia
Oh, it *would* if the syntax was just disabled outright!
Now, if it were me that was in charge of fixing wiki markup, this is
what I would do:
(a) require that syntactic elements opened in a template be closed in
that template during transclusion* (without a change in code now; i.e.:
deprecate but not enforce yet).
(b) provide a mechanism by which templates which do this are
categorized/marked and otherwise findable.
(c) wait suitably long
(d) convert current invalid (according to (a) and identified by (b))
syntax by substituting still transcluded templates inline (thus not
breaking content)
(e) delete/blank/comment out those templates
(f) render the previous syntax invalid (by implicitly closing any
syntactic construct at the end of transclusion)
(g) provide a list of all the subst done in part (d) to the community so
that automated tools can fixup/convert/cleanup with new markup/LUA where
applicable.
Hopefully, whatever the delay in (c) is would need to be long enough
that the more egregious cases or complicated templates have time enough
to be transitioned manually, leaving the following subst/cleanup to take
care of edge cases and little used templates where the disruption is
nowhere as bad.
-- Marc
* This would include, indirectly, the code fragment templates like
Erik describe since they contain fragments meant to be interpreted in
the context of an open syntactic element** -- those are trickier to
/find/, but (f) would make them pointless.
** Making, potentially, a giant leap towards making wikimarkup
context-free which would solve so many problems with parsoid it's not
even funny.
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 07/29/2013 11:10 PM, Risker wrote: which are used daily on hundreds of pages, and they serve a very important function. Yeah, but they are duct tape over weaknesses/flaws in wikimarkup, not a valuable feature. This revolves back to the difficulty in trying to pretend a talk page in wikimarkup is a discussion medium and doing forum kind of things with it. You can break nuts by hitting them with your glasses; I'd rather give you a nutcracker than keep trying to reinforce your glasses so that they don't break. :-) -- Marc ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] What community initiatives have made an impact on editor engagement?
Tim Starling wrote: Note that CAPTCHAs have now been re-enabled on the Portuguese Wikipedia. Erik made the decision, in response to on-wiki consensus. I deployed the change just now. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49860#c75 Lest there be any confusion or doubt: this is a Bad Thing. We should take this time to explicitly state here (or even re-state here, it's important) that using CAPTCHAs in this way is a fundamental violation of our core principles, particularly site accessibility and openness. As a compromise measure between wiki sovereignty and autonomy and our deeply held values, there's been a temporary reinstatement of the CAPTCHAs on the Portuguese Wikipedia for the remainder of 2013. After December 31, 2013, these CAPTCHAs will be re-disabled. Hopefully no other wiki will feel the need to invoke such a drastic measure ever again. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
On 29 July 2013 23:18, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: On 07/29/2013 11:10 PM, Risker wrote: which are used daily on hundreds of pages, and they serve a very important function. Yeah, but they are duct tape over weaknesses/flaws in wikimarkup, not a valuable feature. This revolves back to the difficulty in trying to pretend a talk page in wikimarkup is a discussion medium and doing forum kind of things with it. You can break nuts by hitting them with your glasses; I'd rather give you a nutcracker than keep trying to reinforce your glasses so that they don't break. :-) Okay, now you're just being silly. My point is that these things exist, they're pervasive, and there has to be contingency for addressing deprecated features such as these because many of those pages will remain active. In addition, these are features that require a parallel in any future system. Risker ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] On the gentrification of Wikipedia, by Superbass (was: Visual Editor)
But is subst:ing the code and then deleting the template the right solution for a template that is transcluded over 170,000 times? Overall, I find solutions to such problems that require extensive volunteer manpower to implement and remove functionality from the editor to be quite problematic. Thanks, Rschen7754 rschen7754.w...@gmail.com On Jul 29, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: On 07/29/2013 10:02 PM, Rschen7754 wrote: If I'm reading this right, it *would* cause massive problems on the English Wikipedia Oh, it *would* if the syntax was just disabled outright! Now, if it were me that was in charge of fixing wiki markup, this is what I would do: (a) require that syntactic elements opened in a template be closed in that template during transclusion* (without a change in code now; i.e.: deprecate but not enforce yet). (b) provide a mechanism by which templates which do this are categorized/marked and otherwise findable. (c) wait suitably long (d) convert current invalid (according to (a) and identified by (b)) syntax by substituting still transcluded templates inline (thus not breaking content) (e) delete/blank/comment out those templates (f) render the previous syntax invalid (by implicitly closing any syntactic construct at the end of transclusion) (g) provide a list of all the subst done in part (d) to the community so that automated tools can fixup/convert/cleanup with new markup/LUA where applicable. Hopefully, whatever the delay in (c) is would need to be long enough that the more egregious cases or complicated templates have time enough to be transitioned manually, leaving the following subst/cleanup to take care of edge cases and little used templates where the disruption is nowhere as bad. -- Marc * This would include, indirectly, the code fragment templates like Erik describe since they contain fragments meant to be interpreted in the context of an open syntactic element** -- those are trickier to /find/, but (f) would make them pointless. ** Making, potentially, a giant leap towards making wikimarkup context-free which would solve so many problems with parsoid it's not even funny. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Questions for the WMF Board of Trustees?
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.orgwrote: Hi Phoebe, thanks for pointing to this! I see that this year we only have one hour of board QA. I have always seen a lot of value in these board discussions, especially when it can come to actually that: discussions. As there are several discussion sessions scheduled, without a specific topic, would you and perhaps a few other board members be willing to commit to use some of these sessions to dig a bit deeper into a few specific topics? For example, would there be three board members willing to have a round table discussion about transparency and openness at a board level? I'd be interested in participating in this one - but cannot take the lead on making it happen. Do let us know if this does get fixed during wikimania. Cannot make it 9 Aug 2-4 when there's another meeting, but open to other times. Best Bishakha 2013/7/29 phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com Hi all, Every year at Wikimania the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees hosts a panel where they take questions from the audience on the work of the WMF and the Board. In past years the board has also taken questions via IRC. This year we'd also like to provide the opportunity to leave questions on a wiki page ahead of time: http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Board_Q%26A While there is only time to answer a few questions during the session itself, hopefully this will be a good way of getting questions from attendees as well as from those who can't make it. The board will also take questions from the audience at Wikimania, as time permits. Remember the Board doesn't deal directly with work on or problems on the projects, and does not have a direct hand in how the WMF operates day-to-day. Rather, the board thinks about the big picture, and gives direction on strategy for the WMF. You can find out more about what the board does (and does not do) here: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_handbook best, phoebe -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
