[Wikimedia-l] [OFFICE HOURS] Wiki Loves Folklore 2024 Office Hour Part Two

[Chabota Kanguya]

Dear Community members,

I hope you're doing well. We're excited to invite you to the upcoming Wiki
Loves Folklore 2024 Office Hour Part Two, where we'll be discussing how to
make our jury processes better.

Event Details:

   - Date: March 2nd, 2024
   - Time: 4:00 pm UTC https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1709388000
   - Where: Zoom
   https://us06web.zoom.us/j/88637039784?pwd=AIGFVXsrMPB2piCVZ17acvacHuaZgR.1

What's Happening:

   -

   Introduction by Isaac Chabota Kanguya (Communication Officer): Isaac
   will start things off with a quick 10-minute talk. He'll explain why having
   fair and inclusive jury procedures is important for Wiki Loves Folklore.
   -

   Presentation by Suyash (Jury Coordinator for Wiki Loves Folklore
2024): Next,
   Suyash will speak for 20 minutes about "How to Set Up a Good Jury for Wiki
   Loves Folklore Photography Contest." He'll help to choose good pictures
   -

   Presentation by Nokib Sarkar (Lead Tool Developer for WLF 2024): Then,
   Nokib will talk for 20 minutes about "How We Judge Writing Contests using
   Campwiz Tool." He will show how to use the jury functionality in campwiz.
   -

   Questions and Chat Time: After the presentations, we'll have 10 minutes
   for you to ask questions and share your thoughts.

We think this event will be really helpful, and we'd love for you to be
there. To save your spot, just click here


Thanks so much for all your support with Wiki Loves Folklore. We're looking
forward to chatting with you soon!

Best,
Isaac Kanguya
Communication Officer International Team WLF 2024
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office Hours with Lila re: NSA suit - 23 March 2015 18:00 UTC / 11:00 PDT

[Maggie Dennis]

Hi, all. :)

I just wanted to point out that this is due to start in a bit less than 30
minutes.

Lila will be joined by Ashley Gorski from the ACLU  to discuss the
Wikimedia Foundation’s decision to file suit against the NSA.

Please come by if interested in participating!

Best,

Maggie


On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 9:56 PM, Philippe Beaudette phili...@wikimedia.org
wrote:

 Hello everyone,

 We’ll be holding IRC office hours on Monday, March 23 at 18:00 UTC / 11:00
 PDT to discuss the Wikimedia Foundation’s decision to file suit against the
 NSA http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/. Wikimedia
 Foundation Executive director Lila Tretikov will be there to answer
 questions about why we decided to file suit, the importance of this action,
 and to hear your thoughts on the issue.

 The office hours will be held in #Wikimedia-office on the Freenode network.
 You can find information on how to get online, including a link to a
 webchat option if you don't have an IRC client, on the meta office hours
 page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
 .
 You can also find a time converter for the start of the start of the hour
 here
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=IRC+Office+Hours%3A+Wikimedia+Foundation+and+NSA+Complaint+iso=20150323T11p1=224ah=1
 .
 Note that the U.S. has just switched to Daylight Savings Time, so you may
 want to double check for the time in your location.

 Like most of our public office hours, this one will be publicly logged and
 will be posted on the meta office hour page shortly after it's conclusion.

 Due to the legal issues surrounding this topic, this will be a moderated
 session and Lila will not be able to comment on specific legal arguments or
 theory. We are currently finalizing the selection of a moderator and will
 update the meta office hours page prior to the office hours.

 Also, tomorrow (Friday, March 20), Jimmy, Lila, and ACLU attorney Jameel
 Jaffer will be doing a Reddit AMA at 4:00 PM UTC to answer questions about
 this topic. Anyone who would like to join can do so via this link:
 https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA.

 Thank you,

 Philippe

 *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
 Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :  @Philippewiki
 https://twitter.com/Philippewiki
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for Flow - 23 March 2015 19:30 UTC / 12:30 PDT

[Nick Wilson (Quiddity)]

Hi,
A quick reminder, this is starting in 1 hour.
Please see below, for the original announcement and links.
Thanks,
Quiddity

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
nwil...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Hello everyone, (my apologies for cross-posting)

 We'll be holding an Office hour for Flow on IRC, this Monday at 19:30
 UTC / 12:30 PST.[1] It will take place in #wikimedia-office on
 Freenode IRC.
 You can find information on how to get online, including a link to a
 webchat option if you don't have an IRC client, on the meta office
 hours page.[2]
 The intended focus is for questions about the LQT - Flow conversion
 on MediaWiki.org, as discussed in the related wikitech-l thread and
 onwiki.[3][4]
 Everyone is welcome for discussions and question answering. Logs will
 be posted on the meta office hour page afterwards.

 Thanks,
 Quiddity

 [1] Time conversion:
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19min=30sec=0day=23month=03year=2015
 (30 mins later than previously mentioned)
 [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
 [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Sdoatsbslsafx6lw and at
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/82069
 [4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow

 --
 Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
 Community Liaison
 Wikimedia Foundation

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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours for Flow - 23 March 2015 19:30 UTC / 12:30 PDT

[Nick Wilson (Quiddity)]

Hello everyone, (my apologies for cross-posting)

We'll be holding an Office hour for Flow on IRC, this Monday at 19:30
UTC / 12:30 PST.[1] It will take place in #wikimedia-office on
Freenode IRC.
You can find information on how to get online, including a link to a
webchat option if you don't have an IRC client, on the meta office
hours page.[2]
The intended focus is for questions about the LQT - Flow conversion
on MediaWiki.org, as discussed in the related wikitech-l thread and
onwiki.[3][4]
Everyone is welcome for discussions and question answering. Logs will
be posted on the meta office hour page afterwards.

Thanks,
Quiddity

[1] Time conversion:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19min=30sec=0day=23month=03year=2015
(30 mins later than previously mentioned)
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
[3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Sdoatsbslsafx6lw and at
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/82069
[4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow

-- 
Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

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[Wikimedia-l] Office Hours with Lila re: NSA suit - 23 March 2015 18:00 UTC / 11:00 PDT

[Philippe Beaudette]

Hello everyone,

We’ll be holding IRC office hours on Monday, March 23 at 18:00 UTC / 11:00
PDT to discuss the Wikimedia Foundation’s decision to file suit against the
NSA http://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/. Wikimedia
Foundation Executive director Lila Tretikov will be there to answer
questions about why we decided to file suit, the importance of this action,
and to hear your thoughts on the issue.

The office hours will be held in #Wikimedia-office on the Freenode network.
You can find information on how to get online, including a link to a
webchat option if you don't have an IRC client, on the meta office hours
page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate.
You can also find a time converter for the start of the start of the hour
here
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=IRC+Office+Hours%3A+Wikimedia+Foundation+and+NSA+Complaint+iso=20150323T11p1=224ah=1.
Note that the U.S. has just switched to Daylight Savings Time, so you may
want to double check for the time in your location.

Like most of our public office hours, this one will be publicly logged and
will be posted on the meta office hour page shortly after it's conclusion.

Due to the legal issues surrounding this topic, this will be a moderated
session and Lila will not be able to comment on specific legal arguments or
theory. We are currently finalizing the selection of a moderator and will
update the meta office hours page prior to the office hours.

Also, tomorrow (Friday, March 20), Jimmy, Lila, and ACLU attorney Jameel
Jaffer will be doing a Reddit AMA at 4:00 PM UTC to answer questions about
this topic. Anyone who would like to join can do so via this link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA.

Thank you,

Philippe

*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :  @Philippewiki
https://twitter.com/Philippewiki
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[Wikimedia-l] Office Hours with VPE Damon Sicore - 9 October 2014 20:00 UTC / 13:00 PDT

[James Alexander]

Hi everyone,

As our new Vice President of Engineering, Damon Sicore, just announced in
his longer email to Wikimedia-l he will be having his first IRC Office
hours on Thursday, October 9th, at 20:00 UTC (13:00 PDT). This hour long
office hour is a chance to meet the new VPE and ask your burning questions.

The office hour will be held in #Wikimedia-office on the Freenode network.
You can find information on how to get online, including a link to a
webchat option if you don't have an IRC client, on the meta office hours
page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate.
You can also find a time converter for the start of the hour at
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=20min=00sec=0day=09month=10year=2014
. Like most of our public office hours this one will be publicly logged and
should be posted on the meta office hour page shortly after it's conclusion.

If you want to know you more about Damon you can read the Wikimedia Blog
announcement
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/09/29/damon-sicore-joins-wmf-as-vice-president-of-engineering/
or check out his personal blog http://damon.sicore.com.

James

[[cross posted on wikitech-l and wikimedia-l]]

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
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[Wikimedia-l] Office Hours with Gayle Karen Young Thursday (March 13th) 19:00 UTC (noon PDT)

[James Alexander]

Hi all,

Gayle Karen Young ( https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:Gyoung ), the
Chief Talent and Culture Officer for the Wikimedia Foundation will be
hosting office hours on Thursday March 13th (2 days from this announcement)
at 19:00 UTC/Noon pacific. The office hours will be held on Freenode IRC in
the #wikimedia-office channel. There is no planned discussion topic and
this is meant as an open office hours and a chance to chat with Gayle.

You can find a link to a time converted and a webchat client to join the
conversation below and on the upcoming office hours page (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours ).

James

Office hours start: 19:00 UTC 12:00 PDT Other times -
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19min=00sec=0day=13month=03year=2014

Scheduled end: 20:00 UTC 13:00 PDT Other times -
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=20min=00sec=0day=13month=03year=2014

Webchat - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-office


Office hours
James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours today on VE

[Maggie Dennis]

Hi, guys

I just wanted to shoot out a reminder that later today there will be
another office hour for VisualEditor, featuring James Forrester. This
meeting is at 2300 UTC (
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=23min=00sec=0day=22month=01year=2014
)

You can read more about office hours, including how and where they are
held, at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours

The log for this hour will be posted when finished on Meta. VisualEditor
office hour logs are categorized here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:VisualEditor_office_hours_logs

Thanks!

Maggie



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Senior Community Advocate
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours today on VE

[Maggie Dennis]

Office hour at 2300 UTC (
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=23min=00sec=0day=22month=01year=2014)
to discuss VE. Please stop by, if you can make it!

Maggie


On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Hi, guys

 I just wanted to shoot out a reminder that later today there will be
 another office hour for VisualEditor, featuring James Forrester. This
 meeting is at 2300 UTC (
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=23min=00sec=0day=22month=01year=2014
 )

 You can read more about office hours, including how and where they are
 held, at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours

 The log for this hour will be posted when finished on Meta. VisualEditor
 office hour logs are categorized here:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:VisualEditor_office_hours_logs

 Thanks!

 Maggie



 --
 Maggie Dennis
 Senior Community Advocate
 Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.




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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours reminder

[Maggie Dennis]

Hi.

I just wanted to remind everyone that in a week we are again having office
hours for VisualEditor. The first will be held on Monday, 2 December, at
1900 UTC and the second on 3 December at 0100. (See
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_hours for time conversion links.)

Logs will be posted on meta after each office hour completes. You'll find
them and logs for older office hours on the topic at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:VisualEditor_office_hours_logs

Thanks!

Maggie


-- 
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Senior Community Advocate
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[MZMcBride]

Martin Rulsch wrote:
In German Nov 2, 24:00 equals Nov 3, 0:00. For further information have a
look at Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#Midnight_00:00_and_24:00

Thanks for this. DaB. announced his retirement from the Toolserver at
FRIDAY, 3. January 2014 24:00 MEZ. and I had no idea (precisely when)
that meant. Of course, what it really means is that I need to dump my
Toolserver home directory by the end of 2013. :-/

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Martin Rulsch]

According to the road map, the Toolserver will not be shut down before June
30, 2014.

Cheers
Martin


2013/11/16 MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com

 Martin Rulsch wrote:
 In German Nov 2, 24:00 equals Nov 3, 0:00. For further information have a
 look at Wikipedia:
 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#Midnight_00:00_and_24:00

 Thanks for this. DaB. announced his retirement from the Toolserver at
 FRIDAY, 3. January 2014 24:00 MEZ. and I had no idea (precisely when)
 that meant. Of course, what it really means is that I need to dump my
 Toolserver home directory by the end of 2013. :-/

 MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Martijn Hoekstra]

On Oct 31, 2013 2:11 AM, Steve Zhang cro0...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have to say, I'm amazed such a long discussion has occured over a
 question about the time for an office hours sessions.

I'm amazed nobody has brought up leap seconds yet, which make 23:59:59 roll
over to 23:59:60 and would steal not one but two whole seconds in Tims
example.


 *Steven Zhang*
 *cro0...@gmail.com*


 On 31 October 2013 09:42, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  On 31/10/13 02:51, Newyorkbrad wrote:
   In an arbitration committee election a couple of years ago, I
definitely
   recall confusion about whether a deadline of  on a given date
meant
   that the deadline expired as of the beginning of that date or the end
of
   that date.
 
  Voting periods in SecurePoll are actually half-open intervals [S, E),
  i.e. starting at exactly time S, proceeding up to but not including
  time E. So E = 2013-11-03 00:00:00 is actually the correct way to
  express a voting interval that includes the whole of 2013-11-02 and
  nothing after that. However, I have been browbeaten into using
  23:59:59 in more recent elections, thus stealing a whole second of
  potential voting time from our poor voters.
 
  -- Tim Starling
 
 
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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Maggie Dennis]

Hi. :)

I wanted to let you know that James Forrester is holding a second set of
office hours to discuss VisualEditor. These are scheduled for 1700 UTC on 2
November and  UTC on 3 November. For local time conversions, see
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_hours and click on the starting time
As always, logs will be posted on Meta (same page) after each hour
completes.

Thanks!

Maggie



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Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Risker]

Hi Maggie -

Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us...is
that the minute after 2359 UTC on November 2 (i.e., 7 hours after the first
session), or is it the minute after 2359 UTC on November 3?

I've seen it used both ways so I just want to be clear.

Risker

On 30 October 2013 10:45, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi. :)

 I wanted to let you know that James Forrester is holding a second set of
 office hours to discuss VisualEditor. These are scheduled for 1700 UTC on 2
 November and  UTC on 3 November. For local time conversions, see
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_hours and click on the starting
 time
 As always, logs will be posted on Meta (same page) after each hour
 completes.

 Thanks!

 Maggie



 --
 Maggie Dennis
 Senior Community Advocate
 Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Marc A. Pelletier]

On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:
 Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us

{{cn}}

I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by it.

There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
unambiguously the first of the day.  It makes as much sense to be
hesitant about it as it does wondering whether Jan 1 is part of the
previous year or not*.

-- Marc

* Hint:  It's not.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Nathan]

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.orgwrote:

 On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:
  Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us

 {{cn}}

 I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
 people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by
 it.

 There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
 unambiguously the first of the day.  It makes as much sense to be
 hesitant about it as it does wondering whether Jan 1 is part of the
 previous year or not*.

 -- Marc

 * Hint:  It's not.


Just a shot in the dark, but maybe Risker asked because she's confused. So,
now you have at last seen someone confused by it! Congrats, and may all
your future demands for citations supporting the personal reactions of
other people be met so easily ;)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Newyorkbrad]

It's simple enough to use 0001 instead of .

Newyorkbrad


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org
 wrote:

  On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:
   Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us
 
  {{cn}}
 
  I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
  people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by
  it.
 
  There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
  unambiguously the first of the day.  It makes as much sense to be
  hesitant about it as it does wondering whether Jan 1 is part of the
  previous year or not*.
 
  -- Marc
 
  * Hint:  It's not.
 
 
 Just a shot in the dark, but maybe Risker asked because she's confused. So,
 now you have at last seen someone confused by it! Congrats, and may all
 your future demands for citations supporting the personal reactions of
 other people be met so easily ;)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Marc A. Pelletier]

On 10/30/2013 11:45 AM, Newyorkbrad wrote:
 It's simple enough to use 0001 instead of .

It is, but if there /are/ in fact a large number of people being
confused by it, then treating 00:00 as though it had special status by
avoiding it will only *add* to that confusion rather than clarify the
matter.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Newyorkbrad]

In an arbitration committee election a couple of years ago, I definitely
recall confusion about whether a deadline of  on a given date meant
that the deadline expired as of the beginning of that date or the end of
that date.

Time designations are human conventions, not laws of nature, and should be
as clearly expressed as possible.  Anyone who disagrees with me is free
to state his or her opinion until  today.

Newyorkbrad


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.orgwrote:

 On 10/30/2013 11:45 AM, Newyorkbrad wrote:
  It's simple enough to use 0001 instead of .

 It is, but if there /are/ in fact a large number of people being
 confused by it, then treating 00:00 as though it had special status by
 avoiding it will only *add* to that confusion rather than clarify the
 matter.

 -- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Martin Rulsch]

In German Nov 2, 24:00 equals Nov 3, 0:00. For further information have a
look at Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock#Confusion_at_noon_and_midnight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#Midnight_00:00_and_24:00

Cheers
Martin


2013/10/30 Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com

 It's simple enough to use 0001 instead of .

 Newyorkbrad


 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org
  wrote:
 
   On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:
Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us
  
   {{cn}}
  
   I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to
 many
   people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused
 by
   it.
  
   There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
   unambiguously the first of the day.  It makes as much sense to be
   hesitant about it as it does wondering whether Jan 1 is part of the
   previous year or not*.
  
   -- Marc
  
   * Hint:  It's not.
  
  
  Just a shot in the dark, but maybe Risker asked because she's confused.
 So,
  now you have at last seen someone confused by it! Congrats, and may all
  your future demands for citations supporting the personal reactions of
  other people be met so easily ;)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Michael Snow]

On 10/30/2013 8:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:

Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us

{{cn}}

I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by it.

There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
unambiguously the first of the day.
It ought to be straightforward, yes, since in numeric sequences 00:00 
clearly comes before other possible time values, and therefore is not 
nearly as confusing as, say, 12:00 (is noon AM and midnight PM, or is it 
the other way around?). However, it is definitely possible to overthink 
things, and as this conversation demonstrates, of all the faults of 
which our community is capable, overthinking things is one of the 
easiest for us to fall into.


--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Newyorkbrad]

Are you saying that our extensive discussion of the meaning of  counts
for naught?

Newyorkbrad


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.comwrote:

 On 10/30/2013 8:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

 On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:

 Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us

 {{cn}}

 I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
 people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by
 it.

 There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
 unambiguously the first of the day.

 It ought to be straightforward, yes, since in numeric sequences 00:00
 clearly comes before other possible time values, and therefore is not
 nearly as confusing as, say, 12:00 (is noon AM and midnight PM, or is it
 the other way around?). However, it is definitely possible to overthink
 things, and as this conversation demonstrates, of all the faults of which
 our community is capable, overthinking things is one of the easiest for us
 to fall into.

 --Michael Snow


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Risker]

On 30 October 2013 11:47, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:

 On 10/30/2013 11:45 AM, Newyorkbrad wrote:
  It's simple enough to use 0001 instead of .

 It is, but if there /are/ in fact a large number of people being
 confused by it, then treating 00:00 as though it had special status by
 avoiding it will only *add* to that confusion rather than clarify the
 matter.


Well, I personally know 4 people who told me that they'd missed the last
session scheduled for  because they thought of it being more than 24
hours after the first session.  So I'm not the only one.

I work in an area where exact times are very important, and we don't ever
use  hours; we use 2359 or 23:59:59 or 00:01 or 00:00:01.

Risker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Maggie Dennis]

It confuses me, too, Risker. :) I'm terrified of time conversions, so I
rely on the link they give us on the office hours page itself. :D

It is 7 hours after the first session. The first time I listed a session at
that time, I tried for 2400, but they couldn't process that one. I myself
would prefer to just declare that hour off limits, but alas.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=00min=00sec=0day=3month=11year=2013
should
cover most localities.

Maggie




On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Maggie -

 Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us...is
 that the minute after 2359 UTC on November 2 (i.e., 7 hours after the first
 session), or is it the minute after 2359 UTC on November 3?

 I've seen it used both ways so I just want to be clear.

 Risker

 On 30 October 2013 10:45, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  Hi. :)
 
  I wanted to let you know that James Forrester is holding a second set of
  office hours to discuss VisualEditor. These are scheduled for 1700 UTC
 on 2
  November and  UTC on 3 November. For local time conversions, see
  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_hours and click on the starting
  time
  As always, logs will be posted on Meta (same page) after each hour
  completes.
 
  Thanks!
 
  Maggie
 
 
 
  --
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  Senior Community Advocate
  Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Katherine Casey]

You know, I didn't believe them when they said Wikimedians could fight
about *anything*...and then I read this thread.



On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are you saying that our extensive discussion of the meaning of  counts
 for naught?

 Newyorkbrad


 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com
 wrote:

  On 10/30/2013 8:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
 
  On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:
 
  Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us
 
  {{cn}}
 
  I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
  people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by
  it.
 
  There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
  unambiguously the first of the day.
 
  It ought to be straightforward, yes, since in numeric sequences 00:00
  clearly comes before other possible time values, and therefore is not
  nearly as confusing as, say, 12:00 (is noon AM and midnight PM, or is it
  the other way around?). However, it is definitely possible to overthink
  things, and as this conversation demonstrates, of all the faults of which
  our community is capable, overthinking things is one of the easiest for
 us
  to fall into.
 
  --Michael Snow
 
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Marc A. Pelletier]

On 10/30/2013 11:51 AM, Newyorkbrad wrote:
 Time designations are human conventions, not laws of nature, and should be
 as clearly expressed as possible.  Anyone who disagrees with me is free
 to state his or her opinion until  today.

That deadline has come and gone, as you well know.  :-)

Yes, time designation are human conventions, but there is no more
ambiguity about where  lies there than there is about where 7 lies
amongst the integers.  If there are people who are confused and think
that it comes after 11, they are simply in error and saying starting at
8 when you mean starting immediately after 6 to placate them doesn't
help anyone.

-- Marc



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Maggie Dennis]

Good one, Brad. :)

Katherine, I think you  meant about *nothing*. ;)

Maggie


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Katherine Casey 
fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com wrote:

 You know, I didn't believe them when they said Wikimedians could fight
 about *anything*...and then I read this thread.



 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Newyorkbrad newyorkb...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Are you saying that our extensive discussion of the meaning of 
 counts
  for naught?
 
  Newyorkbrad
 
 
  On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com
  wrote:
 
   On 10/30/2013 8:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
  
   On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:
  
   Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us
  
   {{cn}}
  
   I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to
 many
   people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused
 by
   it.
  
   There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
   unambiguously the first of the day.
  
   It ought to be straightforward, yes, since in numeric sequences 00:00
   clearly comes before other possible time values, and therefore is not
   nearly as confusing as, say, 12:00 (is noon AM and midnight PM, or is
 it
   the other way around?). However, it is definitely possible to overthink
   things, and as this conversation demonstrates, of all the faults of
 which
   our community is capable, overthinking things is one of the easiest for
  us
   to fall into.
  
   --Michael Snow
  
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Michael Snow]

On 10/30/2013 8:58 AM, Newyorkbrad wrote:

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.comwrote:

On 10/30/2013 8:39 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

On 10/30/2013 11:20 AM, Risker wrote:

Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us

{{cn}}

I've heard that said very often (that 00:00 is somehow confusing to many
people), but I've yet to actually see someone being actually confused by
it.

There is exactly one minute labeled 00:00 in every day, and that is
unambiguously the first of the day.

It ought to be straightforward, yes, since in numeric sequences 00:00
clearly comes before other possible time values, and therefore is not
nearly as confusing as, say, 12:00 (is noon AM and midnight PM, or is it
the other way around?). However, it is definitely possible to overthink
things, and as this conversation demonstrates, of all the faults of which
our community is capable, overthinking things is one of the easiest for us
to fall into.

--Michael Snow

Are you saying that our extensive discussion of the meaning of  counts
for naught?

Newyorkbrad

I am saying nothing of the kind.

--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Marco Chiesa]

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:


 Yes, time designation are human conventions, but there is no more
 ambiguity about where  lies there than there is about where 7 lies
 amongst the integers.  If there are people who are confused and think
 that it comes after 11, they are simply in error and saying starting at
 8 when you mean starting immediately after 6 to placate them doesn't
 help anyone.


I guess we can keep discussing on semantics forever, or deciding that
whatever we were talking about would start at 00:01 UTC

NMarco
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Risker]

On 30 October 2013 12:14, Marco Chiesa chiesa.ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org
 wrote:

 
  Yes, time designation are human conventions, but there is no more
  ambiguity about where  lies there than there is about where 7 lies
  amongst the integers.  If there are people who are confused and think
  that it comes after 11, they are simply in error and saying starting at
  8 when you mean starting immediately after 6 to placate them doesn't
  help anyone.
 
 
 I guess we can keep discussing on semantics forever, or deciding that
 whatever we were talking about would start at 00:01 UTC

 NMarco
  ___


Thank you, NMarco - that's exactly what I needed to know.

Risker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Bjoern Hoehrmann]

* Risker wrote:
Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us...is
that the minute after 2359 UTC on November 2 (i.e., 7 hours after the first
session), or is it the minute after 2359 UTC on November 3?

I've seen it used both ways so I just want to be clear.

Could you elaborate on this confusion and where you think it is common?
The 24 hour clock divides a day into 24 hours from 0 to 23 starting at
midnight. 23:59 is 23 hours and 59 minutes after 00:00 on the same day.

  2013-11-03T00:00Z --+
  2013-11-03T00:01Z   |
  ... |
  2013-11-03T00:59Z   |-- November 3rd
  2013-11-03T01:00Z   |
  ... |
  2013-11-03T23:59Z --+
  2013-11-04T00:00Z 
  ...

The minute after 2013-11-03T23:59Z is on November 4th. I do understand
that when setting a deadline you are better off giving the end of a day
as deadline so the time is up when the day is over, otherwise people see
a contradiction and get confused, but beyond that I've not encountered
this particular confusion.
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Isarra Yos]

On 30/10/13 16:32, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:

* Risker wrote:

Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us...is
that the minute after 2359 UTC on November 2 (i.e., 7 hours after the first
session), or is it the minute after 2359 UTC on November 3?

I've seen it used both ways so I just want to be clear.

Could you elaborate on this confusion and where you think it is common?
The 24 hour clock divides a day into 24 hours from 0 to 23 starting at
midnight. 23:59 is 23 hours and 59 minutes after 00:00 on the same day.

   2013-11-03T00:00Z --+
   2013-11-03T00:01Z   |
   ... |
   2013-11-03T00:59Z   |-- November 3rd
   2013-11-03T01:00Z   |
   ... |
   2013-11-03T23:59Z --+
   2013-11-04T00:00Z
   ...

The minute after 2013-11-03T23:59Z is on November 4th. I do understand
that when setting a deadline you are better off giving the end of a day
as deadline so the time is up when the day is over, otherwise people see
a contradiction and get confused, but beyond that I've not encountered
this particular confusion.
It's probably more common in places where people use 12-hour time for 
more things. Because many 12-hour conventions make absolutely no sense, 
folks can learn to expect time standards to make no sense and then don't 
know whether or not to expect 24-hour time to make sense because the 
precedent they're used to says it may not either.


So while 24-hour time does follow fairly logical conventions, if we're 
less used to using it we won't necessarily know to expect that, which 
might explain some of the confusion.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Everton Zanella Alvarenga]

Has someone already started a book about wikidramas? One chapter
called 00:00 would be a good one.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Maggie Dennis]

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 30/10/13 16:32, Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:

 * Risker wrote:

 Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us...is
 that the minute after 2359 UTC on November 2 (i.e., 7 hours after the
 first
 session), or is it the minute after 2359 UTC on November 3?

 I've seen it used both ways so I just want to be clear.

 Could you elaborate on this confusion and where you think it is common?
 The 24 hour clock divides a day into 24 hours from 0 to 23 starting at
 midnight. 23:59 is 23 hours and 59 minutes after 00:00 on the same day.

2013-11-03T00:00Z --+
2013-11-03T00:01Z   |
... |
2013-11-03T00:59Z   |-- November 3rd
2013-11-03T01:00Z   |
... |
2013-11-03T23:59Z --+
2013-11-04T00:00Z
...

 The minute after 2013-11-03T23:59Z is on November 4th. I do understand
 that when setting a deadline you are better off giving the end of a day
 as deadline so the time is up when the day is over, otherwise people see
 a contradiction and get confused, but beyond that I've not encountered
 this particular confusion.

 It's probably more common in places where people use 12-hour time for more
 things. Because many 12-hour conventions make absolutely no sense, folks
 can learn to expect time standards to make no sense and then don't know
 whether or not to expect 24-hour time to make sense because the precedent
 they're used to says it may not either.

 So while 24-hour time does follow fairly logical conventions, if we're
 less used to using it we won't necessarily know to expect that, which might
 explain some of the confusion.


I think you're probably onto something there, Isarra. :) (I hate the 12
a.m./p.m. confusion.)

The Combined Communications Electronics Board at least at one point
recommended avoiding  because of its potential to confuse - see
http://jcs.dtic.mil/j6/cceb/acps/acp121/ACP121I.pdf, section 327 (page  25
of the pdf). (Thank you, Wikipedia. :D)

Maggie
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Risker]

On 30 October 2013 12:32, Bjoern Hoehrmann derhoe...@gmx.net wrote:

 * Risker wrote:
 Just to clarify, since  UTC is a confusing time for most of us...is
 that the minute after 2359 UTC on November 2 (i.e., 7 hours after the
 first
 session), or is it the minute after 2359 UTC on November 3?
 
 I've seen it used both ways so I just want to be clear.

 Could you elaborate on this confusion and where you think it is common?
 The 24 hour clock divides a day into 24 hours from 0 to 23 starting at
 midnight. 23:59 is 23 hours and 59 minutes after 00:00 on the same day.

   2013-11-03T00:00Z --+
   2013-11-03T00:01Z   |
   ... |
   2013-11-03T00:59Z   |-- November 3rd
   2013-11-03T01:00Z   |
   ... |
   2013-11-03T23:59Z --+
   2013-11-04T00:00Z
   ...

 The minute after 2013-11-03T23:59Z is on November 4th. I do understand
 that when setting a deadline you are better off giving the end of a day
 as deadline so the time is up when the day is over, otherwise people see
 a contradiction and get confused, but beyond that I've not encountered
 this particular confusion.
 --



Bjoern, it might just be that I am old and remember the ancient days when
the 24-hour clock was first coming into use outside of the military; it was
common back then to see a time like 00:01 written as 24:01.  The fact that
we have a date change creates the mental expectation that there will be a
day's end before the next meeting, but for people in North America, this is
early afternoon vs late afternoon/early evening.


But yeahI just asked a simple question, and I've got a nice answer.
I've also got a fair amount of slogging.  Let's end this thread now, okay?

Risker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Martin Rulsch]

As far as I know, just in German and about German topics:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:10_Jahre_Wikipedia/Wikipedia-Buch
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alles_%C3%BCber_Wikipedia_und_die_Menschen_hinter_der_gr%C3%B6%C3%9Ften_Enzyklop%C3%A4die_der_Welt;
for an English abstract see
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Das_Wikipedia-Buch

Cheers
Martin


2013/10/30 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton.alvare...@okfn.org

 Has someone already started a book about wikidramas? One chapter
 called 00:00 would be a good one.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Tim Starling]

On 31/10/13 02:51, Newyorkbrad wrote:
 In an arbitration committee election a couple of years ago, I definitely
 recall confusion about whether a deadline of  on a given date meant
 that the deadline expired as of the beginning of that date or the end of
 that date.

Voting periods in SecurePoll are actually half-open intervals [S, E),
i.e. starting at exactly time S, proceeding up to but not including
time E. So E = 2013-11-03 00:00:00 is actually the correct way to
express a voting interval that includes the whole of 2013-11-02 and
nothing after that. However, I have been browbeaten into using
23:59:59 in more recent elections, thus stealing a whole second of
potential voting time from our poor voters.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours for VisualEditor

[Steve Zhang]

I have to say, I'm amazed such a long discussion has occured over a
question about the time for an office hours sessions.

*Steven Zhang*
*cro0...@gmail.com*


On 31 October 2013 09:42, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 On 31/10/13 02:51, Newyorkbrad wrote:
  In an arbitration committee election a couple of years ago, I definitely
  recall confusion about whether a deadline of  on a given date meant
  that the deadline expired as of the beginning of that date or the end of
  that date.

 Voting periods in SecurePoll are actually half-open intervals [S, E),
 i.e. starting at exactly time S, proceeding up to but not including
 time E. So E = 2013-11-03 00:00:00 is actually the correct way to
 express a voting interval that includes the whole of 2013-11-02 and
 nothing after that. However, I have been browbeaten into using
 23:59:59 in more recent elections, thus stealing a whole second of
 potential voting time from our poor voters.

 -- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours to discuss VisualEditor

[rupert THURNER]

hi maggie, _this_ page is well known i guess, i was hoping that you
could publish some information about the upcoming plans to be
discussed :)

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Hi, Rupert.

 The VisualEditor portal on MediaWiki has good information in general on
 VisualEditor, although the deployment schedule needs to be updated.
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Portal :)

 (The September 24 deployment was postponed to September 30th.)

 Maggie


 On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM, rupert THURNER
 rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote:

 hi maggie, james, is there anything which one could read before to be
 not so unprepared?

 On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
  Hello.
 
  I wanted to let you know that the engineering department is hosting two
  office hours next week to discuss VisualEditor. The first of these will
 be
  held on Monday, 30 September, at 1700 UTC.[1]  The second will be held on
  Wednesday, 2 October, at  UTC.[2] Please join as Product Manager
 James
  Forrester discusses VisualEditor and upcoming plans.
 
  Thanks!
 
  Maggie
 
  [1]
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19min=00sec=0day=30month=09year=2013
 
  [2]
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=00min=00sec=0day=02month=10year=2013
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours to discuss VisualEditor

[Maggie Dennis]

Hi, Rupert.

Oh, I see. Upcoming plans would include deployment plans and ongoing
development. It's not a big reveal, but a general conversation. :)

Maggie


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:14 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote:

 hi maggie, _this_ page is well known i guess, i was hoping that you
 could publish some information about the upcoming plans to be
 discussed :)

 On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
  Hi, Rupert.
 
  The VisualEditor portal on MediaWiki has good information in general on
  VisualEditor, although the deployment schedule needs to be updated.
  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Portal :)
 
  (The September 24 deployment was postponed to September 30th.)
 
  Maggie
 
 
  On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM, rupert THURNER
  rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  hi maggie, james, is there anything which one could read before to be
  not so unprepared?
 
  On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org
  wrote:
   Hello.
  
   I wanted to let you know that the engineering department is hosting
 two
   office hours next week to discuss VisualEditor. The first of these
 will
  be
   held on Monday, 30 September, at 1700 UTC.[1]  The second will be
 held on
   Wednesday, 2 October, at  UTC.[2] Please join as Product Manager
  James
   Forrester discusses VisualEditor and upcoming plans.
  
   Thanks!
  
   Maggie
  
   [1]
  
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19min=00sec=0day=30month=09year=2013
  
   [2]
  
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=00min=00sec=0day=02month=10year=2013
  
   --
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   Senior Community Advocate
   Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours to discuss VisualEditor

[Risker]

Will anyone else from the team (including upper management) be
participating, or will it be only James?

Risker


On 28 September 2013 14:48, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi, Rupert.

 Oh, I see. Upcoming plans would include deployment plans and ongoing
 development. It's not a big reveal, but a general conversation. :)

 Maggie


 On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:14 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  hi maggie, _this_ page is well known i guess, i was hoping that you
  could publish some information about the upcoming plans to be
  discussed :)
 
  On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org
  wrote:
   Hi, Rupert.
  
   The VisualEditor portal on MediaWiki has good information in general on
   VisualEditor, although the deployment schedule needs to be updated.
   https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Portal :)
  
   (The September 24 deployment was postponed to September 30th.)
  
   Maggie
  
  
   On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM, rupert THURNER
   rupert.thur...@gmail.comwrote:
  
   hi maggie, james, is there anything which one could read before to be
   not so unprepared?
  
   On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org
 
   wrote:
Hello.
   
I wanted to let you know that the engineering department is hosting
  two
office hours next week to discuss VisualEditor. The first of these
  will
   be
held on Monday, 30 September, at 1700 UTC.[1]  The second will be
  held on
Wednesday, 2 October, at  UTC.[2] Please join as Product Manager
   James
Forrester discusses VisualEditor and upcoming plans.
   
Thanks!
   
Maggie
   
[1]
   
  
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19min=00sec=0day=30month=09year=2013
   
[2]
   
  
 
 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=00min=00sec=0day=02month=10year=2013
   
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Maggie Dennis]

Hi, Rui.

Nothing to pardon. I'd have been asking that question myself not too
awfully long ago. :)

Occasionally, staff members of the Wikimedia Foundation or other groups,
such as chapters, go on IRC to chat with members of the communities that
work on Wikipedia and the other projects we support.[1] Sometimes there is
a set agenda, if there is something that needs particular focus, but often
- as with today's meeting - there is not. It's just an opportunity to ask
questions of staff (or other groups) and to learn a bit from the questions
that others ask and the answers to those questions. It's generally pretty
informal.

If you can't attend the session but are interested in what takes place in
it, you can still review the logs after the fact. These are placed on
Meta.[2]

Maggie

[1] If you aren't familiar with IRC (Internet Relay Chat), there is
information about how to use it at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC and
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate

[2] The logs can be found here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Office_hour_logs To read
them, click on the date of the session in the list. :)





On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear Maggie,

 Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is office hours?

 Regards,

 Rui

 On 25 January 2013 22:15, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  Hello, all.
 
  Just a reminder that Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive
  Director, is doing an IRC office hours on Saturday January 26 at 18:30:00
  UTC. There is not currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will
  update the particulars on Meta if that changes. Please see
  http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hoursfor
  particulars.
 
  Thanks!
 
  Maggie
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Rui Correia]

Thanks Maggie

I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be called
office hours.

Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .

Best regards,

Rui

On 26 January 2013 15:03, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi, Rui.

 Nothing to pardon. I'd have been asking that question myself not too
 awfully long ago. :)

 Occasionally, staff members of the Wikimedia Foundation or other groups,
 such as chapters, go on IRC to chat with members of the communities that
 work on Wikipedia and the other projects we support.[1] Sometimes there is
 a set agenda, if there is something that needs particular focus, but often
 - as with today's meeting - there is not. It's just an opportunity to ask
 questions of staff (or other groups) and to learn a bit from the questions
 that others ask and the answers to those questions. It's generally pretty
 informal.

 If you can't attend the session but are interested in what takes place in
 it, you can still review the logs after the fact. These are placed on
 Meta.[2]

 Maggie

 [1] If you aren't familiar with IRC (Internet Relay Chat), there is
 information about how to use it at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC and
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate

 [2] The logs can be found here:
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Office_hour_logs To read
 them, click on the date of the session in the list. :)





 On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Dear Maggie,
 
  Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is office hours?
 
  Regards,
 
  Rui
 
  On 25 January 2013 22:15, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
   Hello, all.
  
   Just a reminder that Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive
   Director, is doing an IRC office hours on Saturday January 26 at
 18:30:00
   UTC. There is not currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will
   update the particulars on Meta if that changes. Please see
  
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hoursfor
   particulars.
  
   Thanks!
  
   Maggie
  
   --
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   Community Liaison
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Rui Correia, 26/01/2013 14:36:

I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be called
office hours.

Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .


I think the idea is/was that the mysterious WMF office opens for 
everyone to visit and chat, through IRC.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[James Alexander]

I don't know if it's just an american school thing but I know the term from
my professors (and before that some high school teachers) who had 'office
hours' which were set hours when they could be guaranteed to be in their
office without other meetings/commitments so that you could just drop by
without an appointment an chat.

James


James Alexander
Manager, Merchandise
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote:

 Rui Correia, 26/01/2013 14:36:

  I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
 linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
 kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be called
 office hours.

 Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
 office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
 Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .


 I think the idea is/was that the mysterious WMF office opens for
 everyone to visit and chat, through IRC.

 Nemo


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Sage Ross]

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:


 Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
 office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
 Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .


I just took a stab at adding the relevant entry in Wiktionary: #2 at
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/office_hours

(Any Wiktionarians or would-be Wiktionarians, please improve!)

-Sage

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Rui Correia]

That makes more sense - but to turn that into a noun (we are having office
hours on Tuesday, is stretching the borders of everything language.

What next? we are having **Car Park** on Saturday to denote the sort of
informal discussions that carry on after a meeting as peole head for their
cars? ;-)

Rui

On 26 January 2013 15:46, James Alexander jalexan...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 I don't know if it's just an american school thing but I know the term from
 my professors (and before that some high school teachers) who had 'office
 hours' which were set hours when they could be guaranteed to be in their
 office without other meetings/commitments so that you could just drop by
 without an appointment an chat.

 James


 James Alexander
 Manager, Merchandise
 Wikimedia Foundation
 (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


 On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Rui Correia, 26/01/2013 14:36:
 
   I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
  linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
  kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be called
  office hours.
 
  Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
  office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
  Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .
 
 
  I think the idea is/was that the mysterious WMF office opens for
  everyone to visit and chat, through IRC.
 
  Nemo
 
 
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_
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Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Thomas Dalton]

On Jan 26, 2013 1:55 PM, Rui Correia correia@gmail.com wrote:

 That makes more sense - but to turn that into a noun (we are having
office
 hours on Tuesday, is stretching the borders of everything language.

It makes perfect sense to me. It's a particular period of time that is
spent in an office. We're then extending it to refer to a kind of virtual
office used for the same purpose.

(It's not just an Americanism, we use the term in the UK too.)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Peter Southwood]

The English have been known to be at home for similar purposes.

- Original Message - 
From: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com

To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours


That makes more sense - but to turn that into a noun (we are having office
hours on Tuesday, is stretching the borders of everything language.

What next? we are having **Car Park** on Saturday to denote the sort of
informal discussions that carry on after a meeting as peole head for their
cars? ;-)

Rui

On 26 January 2013 15:46, James Alexander jalexan...@wikimedia.org wrote:

I don't know if it's just an american school thing but I know the term 
from

my professors (and before that some high school teachers) who had 'office
hours' which were set hours when they could be guaranteed to be in their
office without other meetings/commitments so that you could just drop by
without an appointment an chat.

James


James Alexander
Manager, Merchandise
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Rui Correia, 26/01/2013 14:36:

  I am a langugage person - speak a number of them, have a passion for
 linguistics, etymology and philology. I had understood that it was some
 kind of meeting, but was naturally curious as to why it should be 
 called

 office hours.

 Thanks for explaining, but it still leaves puzzled to call a meeting
 office hours, when something less arcane would do - like IRC-Chat,
 Wiki-Chat, Wiki-Miti, Wiki-gether Rendez-VouWiki, etc etc .


 I think the idea is/was that the mysterious WMF office opens for
 everyone to visit and chat, through IRC.

 Nemo


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--
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Maggie Dennis]

Hello, all.

Just a reminder that Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive
Director, is doing an IRC office hours on Saturday January 26 at 18:30:00
UTC. There is not currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will
update the particulars on Meta if that changes. Please see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours for
particulars.

Thanks!

Maggie

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Community Liaison
WikimediaFoundation.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours

[Rui Correia]

Dear Maggie,

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is office hours?

Regards,

Rui

On 25 January 2013 22:15, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hello, all.

 Just a reminder that Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive
 Director, is doing an IRC office hours on Saturday January 26 at 18:30:00
 UTC. There is not currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will
 update the particulars on Meta if that changes. Please see
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours for
 particulars.

 Thanks!

 Maggie

 --
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 Community Liaison
 WikimediaFoundation.org
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Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours with Sue

[Philippe Beaudette]

Hi everyone,

This has been delayed one week. So there will NOT be office hours
tomorrow. Instead, they will be one week later.

Thanks,
PB

—
Philippe Beaudette
Director, Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc



On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:28 PM, Maggie Dennis mden...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hello, all.

 Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive Director, is doing an IRC
 office hours on Saturday January 19 at 18:30:00 UTC. There is not currently
 an agenda set for the meeting, but I will update the particulars on Meta if
 that changes. Please see
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours for
 particulars.

 Thanks!

 Maggie

 --
 Maggie Dennis
 Community Liaison
 WikimediaFoundation.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours with Sue

[Maggie Dennis]

Hello, all.

Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive Director, is doing an IRC
office hours on Saturday January 19 at 18:30:00 UTC. There is not currently
an agenda set for the meeting, but I will update the particulars on Meta if
that changes. Please see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours for
particulars.

Thanks!

Maggie

-- 
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Community Liaison
WikimediaFoundation.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours with Sue

[Maggie Dennis]

Hello, all.

Sue Gardner, the Wikimedia Foundation's Executive Director, is doing an IRC
office hours on Saturday December 15 at 18:30:00 UTC. There is not
currently an agenda set for the meeting, but I will update the particulars
on Meta if that changes. Please see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours for
particulars.

Thanks!
Maggie

-- 
Maggie Dennis
Community Liaison
WikimediaFoundation.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Office hours with Sue Gardner tomorrow

[Steven Walling]

Hi everyone,

We realize this is short notice, but Sue Gardner (the Foundation's
Executive Director) is doing an IRC office hours tomorrow, Saturday
August 18, at 17:30:00 UTC.

It's been some time since Sue did one, so we're leaving the topic
pretty open. As usual, the particulars are on Meta at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours

--
Steven Walling
https://wikimediafoundation.org/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours reminder

[Nathan]

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:


 Have to say that the last several office hours (of varying nature) have all
 been during business/school hours in the Americas - and in some cases for
 (western) Europe/Africa as well - and the ones on the current schedule are
 all pretty much in the middle of business hours for these regions.  When so
 many office hours are occurring within the same narrow time window, it
 really limits the potential participation group to the same people all the
 time, and risks becoming a walled garden.  Please consider a more diverse
 window for office hours in the future. And no, I don't expect that every
 office hour be during a time that I'm available, but there's only been one
 (out of fifteen) that occurred during the period where Wikimedians are most
 active.

 Risker/Anne
 


That's a good point (that I think has been made and partially addressed in
the past), and I don't to detract from it at all, but let's also note the
difficulty of scheduling off-hours office hours for WMF staff members -
they participate during their own work day, which for US-based staff of
course means business hours in the Americas range.

~Nathan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours reminder

[Michael Snow]

On 5/2/2012 10:25 AM, Nathan wrote:

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Riskerrisker...@gmail.com  wrote:

Have to say that the last several office hours (of varying nature) have all
been during business/school hours in the Americas - and in some cases for
(western) Europe/Africa as well - and the ones on the current schedule are
all pretty much in the middle of business hours for these regions.  When so
many office hours are occurring within the same narrow time window, it
really limits the potential participation group to the same people all the
time, and risks becoming a walled garden.  Please consider a more diverse
window for office hours in the future. And no, I don't expect that every
office hour be during a time that I'm available, but there's only been one
(out of fifteen) that occurred during the period where Wikimedians are most
active.

That's a good point (that I think has been made and partially addressed in
the past), and I don't to detract from it at all, but let's also note the
difficulty of scheduling off-hours office hours for WMF staff members -
they participate during their own work day, which for US-based staff of
course means business hours in the Americas range.
Also a good point. That being said, as I understand it the office staff 
are generally allowed a fairly flexible schedule, rather than being 
locked into specific hours like a 9-to-5 workday. So I'd consider it a 
generous gesture if some of them would occasionally use that flexibility 
to arrange for IRC office hours to take place in other time windows.


--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours reminder

[Sue Gardner]

On 2 May 2012 10:10, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Have to say that the last several office hours (of varying nature) have all
 been during business/school hours in the Americas - and in some cases for
 (western) Europe/Africa as well - and the ones on the current schedule are
 all pretty much in the middle of business hours for these regions.  When so
 many office hours are occurring within the same narrow time window, it
 really limits the potential participation group to the same people all the
 time, and risks becoming a walled garden.  Please consider a more diverse
 window for office hours in the future. And no, I don't expect that every
 office hour be during a time that I'm available, but there's only been one
 (out of fifteen) that occurred during the period where Wikimedians are most
 active.

People can help by filling out this Doodle. If a
sufficiently-geographically-representative group fills this out, that
will help us standardize on a few times that (among them) would work
for a large majority. Please share the link on IRC or wherever if you
like, to encourage broad-enough participation :-)

http://doodle.com/hnivrcvz3t5sf2gf

Thanks,
Sue

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours reminder

[Tom Morris]

On the IRC front, I note that Sue last had an IRC office hours session on 13 
March and there doesn't seem to be any scheduled sessions with Sue in May. 
Might it be an idea to have another office hours session with Sue soon? 

-- 
Tom Morris
http://tommorris.org/



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Office hours reminder

[Steven Walling]

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote:

 On the IRC front, I note that Sue last had an IRC office hours session on
 13 March and there doesn't seem to be any scheduled sessions with Sue in
 May. Might it be an idea to have another office hours session with Sue soon?


I've currently got a suggestion in for Sue to have an office hours on 5/11,
we're just in the midst of scheduling. :)

Steven
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