Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Thanks everyone who replied to my post. I have proposed to change $wgSitename to ウィキペディア in Japanese Wikipedia. A few users oppose itself. The half of users support changing not the prefix of project namespace but only site's name, while others support changes of both $wgSitename and project namespace's prefix. Leaving the door open to further change, can we set $wgSitename = ウィ キペディア and $wgMetaNamespace = Wikipedia? Sorry for my poor English. Thank you. [[w:ja:mizusumashi]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:14 AM, mizusumashi mizusuma...@coda.ocn.ne.jp wrote: I have proposed to change $wgSitename to ウィキペディア in Japanese Wikipedia. A few users oppose itself. The half of users support changing not the prefix of project namespace but only site's name, while others support changes of both $wgSitename and project namespace's prefix. Leaving the door open to further change, can we set $wgSitename = ウィ キペディア and $wgMetaNamespace = Wikipedia? You should file a bug report with the shell keyword: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimediakeywords=shell You'll need a Bugzilla account. Provide a link to the relevant discussion in your report. Someone will get to it when they have the time. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:14 AM, mizusumashi mizusuma...@coda.ocn.ne.jp wrote: I have proposed to change $wgSitename to ウィキペディア in Japanese Wikipedia. A few users oppose itself. The half of users support changing not the prefix of project namespace but only site's name, while others support changes of both $wgSitename and project namespace's prefix. Leaving the door open to further change, can we set $wgSitename = ウィ キペディア and $wgMetaNamespace = Wikipedia? See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18793 . Note that ウィキペディア is not the canonical term, so people may not want to provide such functionality. ;-| -Stevertigo ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
stevertigo wrote: See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18793 . Note that ウィキペディア is not the canonical term, so people may not want to provide such functionality. ;-| -Stevertigo Your answer is completely unrelated to mizusumashi request, which would have no problem to be fulfilled (assuming there's community consensus). Don't confuse people with your own war (aka. bug 18793). ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
2009/9/23 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: stevertigo wrote: See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18793 . Note that ウィキペディア is not the canonical term, so people may not want to provide such functionality. ;-| -Stevertigo Your answer is completely unrelated to mizusumashi request, which would have no problem to be fulfilled (assuming there's community consensus). Don't confuse people with your own war (aka. bug 18793). ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l Exactly. This thread is about changing the localized name for the project namespace. That's perfectly doable. Your bug was about changing the canonical Project: namespace name so it could be used for other purposes. -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: Your answer is completely unrelated to mizusumashi request, which would have no problem to be fulfilled (assuming there's community consensus). Don't confuse people with your own war (aka. bug 18793). Hm. You are right. The tokens befuddled me. -Stevertigo ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Domas Mituzas wrote:
For something like {{SITENAME}} there is little reason to be looking
it up every single time the message loads, so why not teach Mediawiki
to pre-evaluate that and similar items before putting it in the
message cache?
There is little reason to keep {{SITENAME}} in Mediawiki: namespace
too :)
Generally, this could be handled by simple bot.
The point is, then it won't get automatically updates from translatewiki.
I don't support having a different syntax for mediawiki messages, but
{{SITENAME}} can get susbstituted with a simple preg_replace (a
str_replace if we know there won't be tags).
Do note, we end up with other messages, where people want to use
singular/plural for e.g. 'Categories'.
plural can be treated the same way.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hi,
The point is, then it won't get automatically updates from
translatewiki.
Enwiki will be really really sad by not have pagetitle constantly
translated by translatewiki :)
On the other hand, one could support branching of messages at
translatewiki - isn't that what we do with mediawiki already? :)
I don't support having a different syntax for mediawiki messages, but
{{SITENAME}} can get susbstituted with a simple preg_replace (a
str_replace if we know there won't be tags).
Can we avoid obfuscating our message system even more?
Domas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
2009/9/1 Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com:
Enwiki will be really really sad by not have pagetitle constantly
translated by translatewiki :)
That's not the point. If a message is customized by replacing
{{SITENAME}} with Wikipedia, updates to *that message* (not to the
site name) from TranslateWiki (or changes to the message in
MessagesEn.php , in the case of English) will not get through because
the local customization containing the old version overrides it.
Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Roan Kattouwroan.katt...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/9/1 Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com:
Enwiki will be really really sad by not have pagetitle constantly
translated by translatewiki :)
That's not the point. If a message is customized by replacing
{{SITENAME}} with Wikipedia, updates to *that message* (not to the
site name) from TranslateWiki (or changes to the message in
MessagesEn.php , in the case of English) will not get through because
the local customization containing the old version overrides it.
The sysadmins are only doing this on wikis with high traffic, which
means that there is an active community who can ensure that the
messages are up to date.
Domas suggested the top 20 wikis, but I think the top 10 of these
should be the wikis where optimisations takes precedence over
translations.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias
--
John Vandenberg
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hello,
That's not the point. If a message is customized by replacing
{{SITENAME}} with Wikipedia, updates to *that message* (not to the
site name) from TranslateWiki (or changes to the message in
MessagesEn.php , in the case of English) will not get through because
the local customization containing the old version overrides it.
I understand that. That is the point, once it is overridden, it
doesn't reintroduce faulty behaviors.
That is so sad - considering the amount of updates that go to those
core messages constantly... ;-)
I think both tagline and pagetitle and others will suffer greatly from
this. And 'About' message really needs constant updating too :)
Seriously, folks, you're enjoying the theory of localization so much,
that you forget that there's actual practice out there.
Domas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hello, Domas suggested the top 20 wikis, but I think the top 10 of these should be the wikis where optimisations takes precedence over translations. I restricted myself to top20 because I think there's more work to maintain more. Every wiki which does not have these messages fixed will be just slower. One could say that is also penalty for languages. Should we add sleep() to our codebase whenever we are on fast code path, to offset the need for others to have sluggish interfaces? By the way, how did you come up with top10 number? Why do you think it is better, than, say, top20? Anyone else has any opinions? Should that be top5? Top20? Top100? Cheers, Domas ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com wrote: [...] By the way, how did you come up with top10 number? Why do you think it is better, than, say, top20? Anyone else has any opinions? Should that be top5? Top20? Top100? Why not *all* that haven't been changed on translatewiki in the past x weeks? Plus a monthly bot like that suggested by Platonides that checks which messages (and their dependents) have changed and which are stable enough to be expanded. Tim ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
[snip]
I'd like to ask that folks leave this thread aside for the moment other
than useful replies to the original poster's request about how and where
to propose changing $wgSitename for ja.wikipedia.org.
If the code paths for setting up and running the parser to do brace
substitution in messages were significantly faster, we wouldn't bother
optimizing a few '$1 - {{SITENAME}}'s to '$1 - Wikipedia' on a few of
our high-traffic sites with stable names.
Brace substitution in messages is done using a limited mode of the
parser, much as it is in templates and wiki pages; avoiding braces in
messages that appear on parser-cached pages means that we avoid having
to initialize the parser, which can be a very noticeable win on a
high-traffic site.
If anyone is interested in actually looking into the costs of Parser
setup and invocation for brace replacement in messages and optimizing
this code path, that would be great, but please follow up in a new
thread and only post _new_ information or questions, not repeats of
what's already been said.
Thanks.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hello,
For example, [[MediaWiki:Aboutsite]] have the default message About
{{SITENAME}}. But we have overwritten it by ウィキペディ
アについて
（translated word from about Wikipedia).
Performance-wise it is even better, if all main messages which have
{{SITENAME}} get replacements with literals. Otherwise you're adding
up 5ms of page load time to each page. :)
Domas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
2009/8/31 Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com:
Hello,
For example, [[MediaWiki:Aboutsite]] have the default message About
{{SITENAME}}. But we have overwritten it by ウィキペディ
アについて
（translated word from about Wikipedia).
Performance-wise it is even better, if all main messages which have
{{SITENAME}} get replacements with literals. Otherwise you're adding
up 5ms of page load time to each page. :)
It would be good if that was documented ;-P
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Aboutsite
I asked about this a while ago.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/007#tuning_MediaWiki:Aboutsite
--
John Vandenberg
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hoi, Changing the messages in this way may be good from a performance perspective it really hurts the usability of our messages. Messages are localised at translatewiki.net and this is where we do require these messages. When messages are to have hardcoded strings as you propose you defeat the objectives of using a set of messages that are universally usable. In my opinion your proposal has really nasty side effects so my question is how you want to ensure that we are not working cross purposes. Thanks, GerardM 2009/8/31 Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com I asked about this a while ago. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/007#tuning_MediaWiki :Aboutsite asking on-wiki doesn't really makes much sense, as I don't read it ;-p Anyway, we have to ensure, that most of wikis (at least top20 ones) have got ridden of curly braces and any other expensive parser stuff in these messages, as that costs them up to 10 milliseconds per pageview (if anyone writes a bot to do this automatically, I'd gladly run it with my global super duper privileges :)) : aboutpage aboutsite accesskey-ca-delete accesskey-ca-edit accesskey-ca-history accesskey-ca-move accesskey-ca-nstab-main accesskey-ca-talk accesskey-ca-unprotect accesskey-ca-view accesskey-ca-watch accesskey-n-aboutsite accesskey-n-contact accesskey-n-contents accesskey-n-currentevents accesskey-n-featuredcontent accesskey-n-help accesskey-n-mainpage-description accesskey-n-portal accesskey-n-randompage accesskey-n-recentchanges accesskey-n-sitesupport accesskey-p-logo accesskey-pt-acaibeta accesskey-pt-betafeedback accesskey-pt-logout accesskey-pt-mycontris accesskey-pt-mytalk accesskey-pt-preferences accesskey-pt-userpage accesskey-pt-watchlist accesskey-search accesskey-search-fulltext accesskey-search-go accesskey-t-permalink accesskey-t-print accesskey-t-recentchangeslinked accesskey-t-specialpages accesskey-t-upload accesskey-t-whatlinkshere actions cite_article_link coll-add_page_tooltip coll-create_a_book coll-help_collections_tooltip coll-helppage coll-printable_version_pdf contact-url currentevents-url delete disclaimerpage disclaimers edit helppage history_short interaction jumpto jumptonavigation jumptosearch lastmodifiedat mainpage move mycontris mypreferences mytalk mywatchlist namespaces navigation nstab-main opensearch-desc optin-feedback optin-leave otherlanguages pagetitle pagetitle-view-mainpage permalink personaltools portal-url printableversion privacy privacypage randompage-url recentchanges-url recentchangeslinked-toolbox retrievedfrom search search-mwsuggest-disabled search-mwsuggest-enabled searcharticle searchbutton sidebar site-atom-feed site-rss-feed sitenotice sitesupport-url specialpages tagline talk toolbox tooltip-ca-delete tooltip-ca-edit tooltip-ca-history tooltip-ca-move tooltip-ca-nstab-main tooltip-ca-talk tooltip-ca-unprotect tooltip-ca-view tooltip-ca-watch tooltip-n-aboutsite tooltip-n-contact tooltip-n-contents tooltip-n-currentevents tooltip-n-featuredcontent tooltip-n-help tooltip-n-mainpage-description tooltip-n-portal tooltip-n-randompage tooltip-n-recentchanges tooltip-n-sitesupport tooltip-p-coll-create_a_book tooltip-p-interaction tooltip-p-logo tooltip-p-navigation tooltip-pt-acaibeta tooltip-pt-betafeedback tooltip-pt-logout tooltip-pt-mycontris tooltip-pt-mytalk tooltip-pt-preferences tooltip-pt-userpage tooltip-pt-watchlist tooltip-search tooltip-search-fulltext tooltip-search-go tooltip-t-permalink tooltip-t-print tooltip-t-recentchangeslinked tooltip-t-specialpages tooltip-t-upload tooltip-t-whatlinkshere unprotect unwatch unwatching upload userlogout vector-action-delete vector-action-move vector-action-unprotect vector-namespace-main vector-namespace-talk vector-view-edit vector-view-history vector-view-view views watch watching whatlinkshere wikimedia-copyright Domas ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Changing the messages in this way may be good from a performance perspective it really hurts the usability of our messages. Messages are localised at translatewiki.net and this is where we do require these messages. When messages are to have hardcoded strings as you propose you defeat the objectives of using a set of messages that are universally usable. In my opinion your proposal has really nasty side effects so my question is how you want to ensure that we are not working cross purposes. Thanks, GerardM Yes, but once the wiki has the base message and they've customized it, there's certainly an incentive to using the string instead of the magic word. -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hi!
Changing the messages in this way may be good from a performance
perspective
it really hurts the usability of our messages. Messages are
localised at
translatewiki.net and this is where we do require these messages. When
messages are to have hardcoded strings as you propose you defeat the
objectives of using a set of messages that are universally usable.
I'm suggesting doing that just on our wikis. Mediawiki users can have
whatever expensive logic, I don't care that much :-)
In my opinion your proposal has really nasty side effects so my
question is
how you want to ensure that we are not working cross purposes.
Using {{ on common messages is no-go on major wikimedia wikis. Again,
people can do whatever transformations they want at any level, except
final mediawiki message logic that is on our site.
BR,
Domas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hoi,
There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality
localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just stating
that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono.
These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the way
our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as poor
performance is.
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/8/31 Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.com
Hi!
Changing the messages in this way may be good from a performance
perspective
it really hurts the usability of our messages. Messages are
localised at
translatewiki.net and this is where we do require these messages. When
messages are to have hardcoded strings as you propose you defeat the
objectives of using a set of messages that are universally usable.
I'm suggesting doing that just on our wikis. Mediawiki users can have
whatever expensive logic, I don't care that much :-)
In my opinion your proposal has really nasty side effects so my
question is
how you want to ensure that we are not working cross purposes.
Using {{ on common messages is no-go on major wikimedia wikis. Again,
people can do whatever transformations they want at any level, except
final mediawiki message logic that is on our site.
BR,
Domas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hoi, Thank you for the hyperbole.. Your representation insinuates that our systems will crash unless this change is implemented. Fact is that currently our messages are parsed. Thanks, GerardM 2009/8/31 Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.comsimetrical%2bwikil...@gmail.com On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just stating that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono. These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the way our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as poor performance is. Slightly more burdensome localization makes the localizers' lives a bit more difficult. Running out of CPU means the site will crash. So, no, I don't think so. Of course, it would be nice if someone came up with a solution that everyone was happy with, but until then, performance *is* more important than localization convenience. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Gerard
Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
Thank you for the hyperbole.. Your representation insinuates that our
systems will crash unless this change is implemented. Fact is that currently
our messages are parsed.
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/8/31 Aryeh Gregor
simetrical+wikil...@gmail.comsimetrical%2bwikil...@gmail.com
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Gerard
Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality
localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just
stating
that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono.
These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the
way
our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as
poor
performance is.
Slightly more burdensome localization makes the localizers' lives a
bit more difficult. Running out of CPU means the site will crash.
So, no, I don't think so. Of course, it would be nice if someone came
up with a solution that everyone was happy with, but until then,
performance *is* more important than localization convenience.
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In the WMF environment, I know a lot of instances of {{SITENAME}}
have been changed to strings on a lot of the larger wikis. For the WMF,
this is a good performance gain with little drawback to the users. Their
sitename isn't changing anytime soon, so it doesn't really matter to
use {{SITENAME}} or not.
For individual wikis elsewhere, {{SITENAME}} may be of greater benefit.
This doesn't hold true for the WMF though, and that's what Domas is
talking about.
-Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
No need to have a heated debate here, I think.
I have known about this issue for high traffic MediaWiki wikis for at least
a year and a half - Domas actually made me aware of it, and based on that I
made a few changes in the Dutch language Wikipedia and notified some admins
of other larger Wikipedias about the resource use advantages it could have
for the WMF. Changing {{SITENAME}} in a few messages of the content language
to whatever that sitename is supposed to be replaced for fixes the issue.
That's it, nothing more.
There is also no need to change something in the standard localisation.
{{SITENAME}} works fine as it is where it is being used, although not using
it if possible is a better alternative, as {{SITENAME}} usage poses problems
in most languages that should have different grammar forms for SITENAME. We
(i18n dudes - still looking for girls in that area) have in the past
actively reduced SITENAME usage in messages, although nothing rigid was
done, and a closer look at it might not be a bad idea.
Cheers!
Siebrand
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just stating that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono. These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the way our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as poor performance is. Slightly more burdensome localization makes the localizers' lives a bit more difficult. Running out of CPU means the site will crash. So, no, I don't think so. Of course, it would be nice if someone came up with a solution that everyone was happy with, but until then, performance *is* more important than localization convenience. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On 31/08/2009, at 9:27 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just stating that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono. These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the way our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as poor performance is. You haven't explained exactly what impact this will have on localisation. Perhaps providing concrete disadvantages instead of vague topic areas will make your argument more convincing. -- Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org http://werdn.us/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Domas Mituzas wrote:
Anyway, we have to ensure, that most of wikis (at least top20 ones)
have got ridden of curly braces and any other expensive parser stuff
in these messages, as that costs them up to 10 milliseconds per
pageview (if anyone writes a bot to do this automatically, I'd gladly
run it with my global super duper privileges :)) :
1) Copy that list
2) Prepend MediaWiki: namespace
3) Post to Special:Export
4) Automate it:
sed s/wiki$/wikipedia/ all.dblist all.domains
sed -i s/metawikipedia/metawikimedia/ all.domains
sed -i s/commonswikipedia/commonswikimedia/ all.domains
sed -i s/wik/.wik/ all.domains
sed -i s/.wikimania\([0-9]\+\)wikipedia/wikimania\1.wikimedia/ all.domains
sed -i s/.wikimaniateamwikipedia/wikimaniateam.wikimedia/ all.domains
sed -i s/foundation.wikipedia/wikimediafoundation/ all.domains
sed -i
s/\(strategy\|usability\|collab\|advisory\|grants\|board\|incubator\|internal\|chair\|quality\|exec\|wikimaniateam\|office\|.*com\).wikipedia/\1.wikimedia/
all.domains
sed -i s/_/-/g all.domains
sed -i s/arbcom-/arbcom./ all.domains
sed -i s/-labs/.labs/ all.domains
sed -i s/wg-en.wikipedia/wg.en.wikipedia/ all.domains
sed -i s/media.wikiwikipedia/www.mediawiki/ all.domains
while read domain; do
wget http://$domain.org/wiki/Special:Export --post-file=postdata.txt -O
$domain.txt
done all.domains
6) Profit!!
Wikis using some kind of templating
grep -l {{ *|wc -l
255
Total usage:
grep {{ *|wc -l
732
Using parserfunctions
grep {{# *|wc -l
28 (across 22 wikis: als.wikipedia.org bar.wikipedia.org
ca.wikipedia.org commons.wikimedia.org en.labs.wikimedia.org
en.wikibooks.org fa.wikipedia.org fa.wikiquote.org gl.wikipedia.org
it.wikinews.org it.wikiquote.org meta.wikimedia.org ru.wikipedia.org
simple.wikipedia.org sv.wikibooks.org tr.wikibooks.org tr.wikipedia.org
tr.wikisource.org zh.wikibooks.org zh.wikipedia.org zh.wikiquote.org
zh.wikisource.org)
grep {{PAGENAME}} *|wc -l
18
Used for namespace name:
grep {{ns: *|wc -l
226
grep {{localurl: *|wc -l
5
grep {{grammar: *|wc -l
8
grep {{plural: *|wc -l
0
grep lt;nowiki *|wc -l
0
Wikis with using all default messages:
grep -L revision * | wc -l
273
Private wikis not read:
grep html *|wc -l
23
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hoi, Centralised localisation works when the resulting localised messages are usable and useful in all environments. More exceptions to this rule make it seem as if central localisation is not a good idea. There is already one acknowledged exception to the rule; messages that inform about the policies of a local wiki, there is now a second category and they are messages that have parameters like the system name. While I appreciate Domas' search for more performance, I am equally of the opinion that there are other factors to consider. Siebrand wrote that HE is aware of this. This is nice but we support other projects that run MediaWiki and our support should allow for THEY are aware of this. There is also a constant flow of new localised messages and these can include the list of messages that has been shown earlier in this thread. I can imagine that we have some functionality that is part of the update.php that updates these values in the plain vanilla messages. What I am looking for is proper support. The least is proper documentation and it can be expanded to a procedure that allows other wikis to benefit from the knowledge we have gained. My overriding concern is that our language support is not sacrificed at the cost of a few cycles. Even when there are a lot of them. Thanks, GerardM 2009/8/31 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org On 31/08/2009, at 9:27 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just stating that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono. These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the way our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as poor performance is. You haven't explained exactly what impact this will have on localisation. Perhaps providing concrete disadvantages instead of vague topic areas will make your argument more convincing. -- Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org http://werdn.us/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 3:56 AM, Domas Mituzasmidom.li...@gmail.com wrote:
I asked about this a while ago.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/007#tuning_MediaWiki
:Aboutsite
asking on-wiki doesn't really makes much sense, as I don't read it ;-p
Anyway, we have to ensure, that most of wikis (at least top20 ones)
have got ridden of curly braces and any other expensive parser stuff
in these messages, as that costs them up to 10 milliseconds per
pageview (if anyone writes a bot to do this automatically, I'd gladly
run it with my global super duper privileges :)) :
In the long-term, wouldn't it be smarter to make some of these stable
and quasi-stable tokens automatically cache in their evaluated state?
For something like {{SITENAME}} there is little reason to be looking
it up every single time the message loads, so why not teach Mediawiki
to pre-evaluate that and similar items before putting it in the
message cache? For the rare case that such things do change you'd
need to make sure that the cache does get rebuilt periodically (or
have someway to detect such changes and deliberately refresh the
cache), but such changes are so rare that adding some lag on update
might be acceptable.
-Robert Rohde
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote in message news:h7gok4$6v...@ger.gmane.org... 1) Copy that list 2) Prepend MediaWiki: namespace 3) Post to Special:Export 4) Automate it: ... 6) Profit!! What's step 5? :-P --HM ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Happy-melonhappy-me...@live.com wrote: Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote in message news:h7gok4$6v...@ger.gmane.org... 1) Copy that list 2) Prepend MediaWiki: namespace 3) Post to Special:Export 4) Automate it: ... 6) Profit!! What's step 5? :-P ???, presumably. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Aryeh Gregor wrote: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Happy-melonhappy-me...@live.com wrote: Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote in message news:h7gok4$6v...@ger.gmane.org... 1) Copy that list 2) Prepend MediaWiki: namespace 3) Post to Special:Export 4) Automate it: ... 6) Profit!! What's step 5? :-P ???, presumably. Right. :) (see Happy-melon, you _knew_ it!) ...Or perhaps a sysadmin beating those sysops so the servers can profit having a few less cpu usage. ;) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hi,
In the long-term, wouldn't it be smarter to make some of these stable
and quasi-stable tokens automatically cache in their evaluated state?
We already do, we cache such simplified messages in Mediawiki:
namespace.
For something like {{SITENAME}} there is little reason to be looking
it up every single time the message loads, so why not teach Mediawiki
to pre-evaluate that and similar items before putting it in the
message cache?
There is little reason to keep {{SITENAME}} in Mediawiki: namespace
too :)
Generally, this could be handled by simple bot.
Do note, we end up with other messages, where people want to use
singular/plural for e.g. 'Categories'.
For the rare case that such things do change you'd
need to make sure that the cache does get rebuilt periodically (or
have someway to detect such changes and deliberately refresh the
cache), but such changes are so rare that adding some lag on update
might be acceptable.
Well, Mediawiki: is such cache :) We don't need to change our code at
all then :)
Domas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
I was under the impression we were talking about changing the strings at the individual Wikis, thus a custom message, not in the language files used for all MediaWiki sites... I'm not sure, then, what the problem is Gerard? If we alter a message locally at Wikipedia how does that affect TranslateWiki's efficacy with regards to non-Wikimedia wikis? Mark On 8/31/09, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Centralised localisation works when the resulting localised messages are usable and useful in all environments. More exceptions to this rule make it seem as if central localisation is not a good idea. There is already one acknowledged exception to the rule; messages that inform about the policies of a local wiki, there is now a second category and they are messages that have parameters like the system name. While I appreciate Domas' search for more performance, I am equally of the opinion that there are other factors to consider. Siebrand wrote that HE is aware of this. This is nice but we support other projects that run MediaWiki and our support should allow for THEY are aware of this. There is also a constant flow of new localised messages and these can include the list of messages that has been shown earlier in this thread. I can imagine that we have some functionality that is part of the update.php that updates these values in the plain vanilla messages. What I am looking for is proper support. The least is proper documentation and it can be expanded to a procedure that allows other wikis to benefit from the knowledge we have gained. My overriding concern is that our language support is not sacrificed at the cost of a few cycles. Even when there are a lot of them. Thanks, GerardM 2009/8/31 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org On 31/08/2009, at 9:27 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, There are two opposing objectives at play. Performance is one and quality localisation for MediaWiki in all our projects is the second. Just stating that performance trumps our localisation is also very much a nono. These are consequences and they have to be considered. Just breaking the way our localisation works in this way is at least equally unacceptable as poor performance is. You haven't explained exactly what impact this will have on localisation. Perhaps providing concrete disadvantages instead of vague topic areas will make your argument more convincing. -- Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org http://werdn.us/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- skype: node.ue ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
Hello everyone.
I want to propose changing {{SITENAME}} in jawp. But I don't know how
to, and who can do it. Editing some pages, requesting to server
administrators or anything... Please teach me what I have to.
Thank you.
[[w:ja:User:mizusumashi]]
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
mizusumashi wrote:
Hello everyone.
I want to propose changing {{SITENAME}} in jawp. But I don't know how
to, and who can do it. Editing some pages, requesting to server
administrators or anything... Please teach me what I have to.
Thank you.
[[w:ja:User:mizusumashi]]
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You need to gain a local consensus and then file a bug in bugzilla [1].
[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/
--vvv
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Re: [Wikitech-l] how to chang {{SITENAME}}
How do you want it changed? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
