date:20100204

Thought this might be found interesting by some

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8498100.stm

Granted not US based but sets a bit of a precedence I think.

 

/ Eje 

 

 




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[WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave 
to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan 
for Amercia)
“Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With 
this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another type 
of data app? As the distinction between network operators and application 
providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the government be 
able to keep up?”


Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

2010-02-04 Thread Bret Clark

Doesn't really set a precedence in the US, oversees rulings are not
material in US courts unless it involves a US law. 

My concern though is that if the Comcast/NBC deal goes through, Comcast
will suddenly be an even bigger content owner (granted they have small
content now) and I fear they will lobby hard for ISP's to be content
police. 

On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 08:27 -0600, Eje Gustafsson wrote:

 Thought this might be found interesting by some
 
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8498100.stm
 
 Granted not US based but sets a bit of a precedence I think.
 
  
 
 / Eje 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

2010-02-04 Thread Scott Reed

Doesn't set a precedence, but I seem to recall our Supreme Court siting 
international or other countries laws  in rulings.  I remember but it 
bothered me that they were not using our Constitution and laws, but 
someone else's.  So, I would guess there is a good change this will have 
an impact on future US rulings.

Bret Clark wrote:
 Doesn't really set a precedence in the US, oversees rulings are not
 material in US courts unless it involves a US law. 

 My concern though is that if the Comcast/NBC deal goes through, Comcast
 will suddenly be an even bigger content owner (granted they have small
 content now) and I fear they will lobby hard for ISP's to be content
 police. 

 On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 08:27 -0600, Eje Gustafsson wrote:

   
 Thought this might be found interesting by some

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8498100.stm

 Granted not US based but sets a bit of a precedence I think.

  

 / Eje 

  





 
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-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
it in a bathtub?

Glenn Kelley wrote:
 Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave 
 to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan 
 for Amercia)
 “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
 Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With 
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another 
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and 
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the 
 government be able to keep up?”


 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


   

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com







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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread RickG

Ya, and they can use the business now that Obama spoke out against them!

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote:

 Why would you not have it at Vegas, like most other conventions?  Most days
 we can fly there and back for under $100 total round-trip.  Rooms are
 cheap,
 and there is plenty of other stuff to do.  Oh, and free booze.  :-)

 On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:

  I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
  normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
 
  Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
  packed
  as
  it was 10 years ago too.
 
  4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
  place I stopped at, a Drury.
 
  Don't take your organs to heaven,
  heaven knows we need them down here!
  Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
   Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging
 in
   the
   area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
   convention.
   There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for
 your
   idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
   locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot
  of
   competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
   higher
   airfare.
  
  
  
   Thank You,
   Brian Webster
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
   Behalf Of Robert West
   Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
   To: 'WISPA General List'
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
  
  
   Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..
  
   I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of
  the
   large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only so
   much
   I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go
 across
   town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same
 sort
   of
   towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way would
  we
   get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.
   The
   bonus is, it could be used as a marketing tool to bring in even more
   people
   without any more effort.  I'd certainly go out of my way for an event
  that
   would cover radio gear as well as the hardware and safety.  A lot of us
   WISP
   operators deal with HAMS and go to their conventions anyhow.  Unless,
 of
   course, the WISPA show is stuffed with a full assortment of what we
 use.
   :)
  
  
   Anyway, just an idea.
  
   Bob-
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
   Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
   Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
  
   All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your
 assumptions.
  
   I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
   putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on
 that
   process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own
   show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
   potential as a fund raiser.
  
   What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed
 to
   put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and
   then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not
 scale
   up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right
   now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in
 the
   day.
  
   Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are
 willing
   to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so
   that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP
   business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show
   that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on
   a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread
   WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong
   positives.
  
   Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to
   the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We
   will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't
   really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements
 go
   far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a
   staff of people who specialize in

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread lakeland

10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a room 
that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY. No available 
rooms for 50 miles. 

I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and abandon 
the thing!  LOL

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47 
To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.

Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as packed 
as
it was 10 years ago too.

4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
place I stopped at, a Drury.

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in 
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the 
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay 
 higher
 airfare.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..

 I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of the
 large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only so 
 much
 I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go across
 town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same sort 
 of
 towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way would we
 get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.  The
 bonus is, it could be used as a marketing tool to bring in even more 
 people
 without any more effort.  I'd certainly go out of my way for an event that
 would cover radio gear as well as the hardware and safety.  A lot of us 
 WISP
 operators deal with HAMS and go to their conventions anyhow.  Unless, of
 course, the WISPA show is stuffed with a full assortment of what we use.
 :)


 Anyway, just an idea.

 Bob-

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

 All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.

 I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
 putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that
 process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own
 show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
 potential as a fund raiser.

 What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed to
 put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and
 then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not scale
 up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right
 now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in the
 day.

 Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are willing
 to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so
 that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP
 business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show
 that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on
 a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread
 WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong
 positives.

 Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to
 the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We
 will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't
 really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements go
 far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a
 staff of people who specialize in this kind of work and can get it done
 more effectively and at a larger scale than we could ever dream of doing
 on our

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

What happens if the government states you cannot block any content and or do 
traffic shaping ... ?
Understand - the talk was to the Free State Foundation - who is against 
virtually any blocking or traffic shaping 

This being said- even the plans you may offer may be out of the window on the 
other extreme.

I think some regulation is wise personally ! - However if its to broad it does 
not help - if its to narrow it does not help on the other side of the fence :-)

Like anything - it needs to be wisely thought out and dealt with

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jack Unger wrote:

 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?
 
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
 Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he 
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband 
 plan for Amercia)
 “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
 Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With 
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another 
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and 
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the 
 government be able to keep up?”
 
 
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
 Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

*shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large conference.
There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and visited
probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't even
find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week. 
Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler. 
Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental minivan
on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the hour.
Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car on
a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back to
sleep. 

The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;) 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY. No
available rooms for 50 miles. 

I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
abandon the thing!  LOL

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47 
To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.

Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as packed

as
it was 10 years ago too.

4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
place I stopped at, a Drury.

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in 
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the 
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay 
 higher
 airfare.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..

 I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of the
 large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only so 
 much
 I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go across
 town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same sort 
 of
 towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way would we
 get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.  The
 bonus is, it could be used as a marketing tool to bring in even more 
 people
 without any more effort.  I'd certainly go out of my way for an event that
 would cover radio gear as well as the hardware and safety.  A lot of us 
 WISP
 operators deal with HAMS and go to their conventions anyhow.  Unless, of
 course, the WISPA show is stuffed with a full assortment of what we use.
 :)


 Anyway, just an idea.

 Bob-

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

 All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.

 I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
 putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that
 process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own
 show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
 potential as a fund raiser.

 What was

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread Randy Cosby

Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)

Randy


On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
 *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
 families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large conference.
 There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
 enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
 available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and visited
 probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't even
 find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
 Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
 Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental minivan
 on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
 alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
 suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the hour.
 Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car on
 a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
 parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back to
 sleep.

 The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)

 / Eje

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
 room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY. No
 available rooms for 50 miles.

 I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
 abandon the thing!  LOL

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 -Original Message-
 From: Blake Bowersbbow...@mozarks.com
 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
 To:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

 I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
 normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.

 Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as packed

 as
 it was 10 years ago too.

 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
 place I stopped at, a Drury.

 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Websterbwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show



 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
 higher
 airfare.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..

 I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of the
 large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only so
 much
 I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go across
 town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same sort
 of
 towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way would we
 get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.  The
 bonus is, it could be used as a marketing tool to bring in even more
 people
 without any more effort.  I'd certainly go out of my way for an event that
 would cover radio gear as well as the hardware and safety.  A lot of us
 WISP
 operators deal with HAMS and go to their conventions anyhow.  Unless, of
 course, the WISPA show is stuffed with a full assortment of what we use.
 :)


 Anyway, just an idea.

 Bob-

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

 All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.

 I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
 putting on a show and evaluating our

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread Butch Evans

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 21:16 -0600, Blake Bowers wrote: 
 That sounds like a great idea, but I would like to think the
 WISP folks bathe more often than some of the people at the
 hamfest...

Of course you all realize that the board has already decided to work
with Ed Meeks group and that Ed Meeks group is going to decide the
location of the show (I'd bet on Vegas).  I don't want to quell
discussion, but thought I'd point that out in case anyone was thinking
there may be a way to influence the decision for where the show is held.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

Very good!

I've always had the thought that if I, as a provider of access to the
internet am responsible for how the users behave..  I would like to
stretch that out and hold everyone responsible for other things such as if a
burglar uses the highway to come to your house to rob me, they should
compensate me, the telco that he used to plan the crime should compensate
me, the cell phone provider he used for his buddy outside to call to warn
him if someone was coming into the house should compensate me.

The problem is, they are just looking for everyone else to blame for their
issues and want us all to police and be responsible for their property. 

It's this sort of thing that has to be held off or else we become the Big
Brother society that many want us to be.  I know, I know.  We are almost
already there.  It's been Frog Soup (look it up) but we're seeing more of it
happening more openly and I applaud this court for actually having the
testicular fortitude to say NO.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

Thought this might be found interesting by some

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8498100.stm

Granted not US based but sets a bit of a precedence I think.

 

/ Eje 

 

 





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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 

If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place - 
IMHO 

When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets for 
prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place I 
would like to take my family on vacation. 

Disney sounds better ;-)

Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia, Indy, 
Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 


_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:

 Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
 rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
 
 Randy
 
 
 On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
 *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
 families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large conference.
 There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
 enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
 available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and visited
 probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't even
 find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
 Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
 Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental minivan
 on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
 alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
 suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the hour.
 Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car on
 a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
 parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back to
 sleep.
 
 The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
 
 / Eje
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
 room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY. No
 available rooms for 50 miles.
 
 I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
 abandon the thing!  LOL
 
 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Blake Bowersbbow...@mozarks.com
 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
 To:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
 normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
 
 Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as packed
 
 as
 it was 10 years ago too.
 
 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
 place I stopped at, a Drury.
 
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Websterbwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
 
 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
 higher
 airfare.
 
 
 
 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
 Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..
 
 I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of the
 large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only so
 much
 I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go across
 town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same sort
 of
 towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way would we
 get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.  The
 bonus is, it could

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

Hi Matt,

I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow 
emails reply to that list not the public one :-).

Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of Commerce 
president here's my latest project:
http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek

Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding the 
cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.

We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the 
weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000 people.
http://www.stumpjumpers.org

The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race chairman 
and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the 
physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all 
over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle ranch.

I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2 or 3 
people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the 
help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc. we 
need to find a different way.

So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps we 
do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.

Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting some 
kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how 
many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do we 
want?  Who should speak?

Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show or 
one done by someone else.

I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car 
shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate 
settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I 
don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of 
that.  I want to see new product, learn from people better than me, and 
spend time with my peers.

My fear with Ed's group is that they will try to put on a fancy schmancy 
show in which the vendors will have to pay so much for floor space that 
they'll demand access to the podiums and we'll end up with a teaching 
track that's always slanted in the direction of products rather than the 
overall nature of our business.

Having said all of that.  My plate is already as full as I want it.  I'll 
not be putting  my time where my mouth is.  grin  I'm here to help with 
thoughts and opinions via email but I'll help out as I can which ever way 
the rest of the committee wishes to see the show move.

Thanks for taking the lead on this!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.

 I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
 putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that
 process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own
 show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
 potential as a fund raiser.

 What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed to
 put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and
 then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not scale
 up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right
 now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in the
 day.

 Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are willing
 to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so
 that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP
 business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show
 that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on
 a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread
 WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong
 positives.

 Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to
 the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We
 will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't
 really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements go
 far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a
 staff of people who specialize in this kind of work and can get it done
 more effectively and at a larger scale than we could ever dream of doing
 on our own.

 All this being said - if the show is a flop, there will be an out so
 that we can go back to plan A next year if that is what needs to
 happen.   For 2010, it makes more sense to work with professionals to
 get a show put on.

 Matt Larsen
 vistabeam.com


 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

Agreed. I know this might not necessary have a direct precedence for the US
market but I know in the past on some things like this the US courts,
judges, attorneys and the like has looked at what other countries have done
and taken a serious look on the reasoning why they went a specific direction
so this case even if it's in Australia cannot be anything but a good thing
for us in the US. Now if it been a different country like say China or India
then well I would almost dare to say the US court system might do the
opposite just cause. But consider the historical information both court
system wise as well country origin and laws I believe this is a good thing
and should be to the US ISP's favor. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:25 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

Very good!

I've always had the thought that if I, as a provider of access to the
internet am responsible for how the users behave..  I would like to
stretch that out and hold everyone responsible for other things such as if a
burglar uses the highway to come to your house to rob me, they should
compensate me, the telco that he used to plan the crime should compensate
me, the cell phone provider he used for his buddy outside to call to warn
him if someone was coming into the house should compensate me.

The problem is, they are just looking for everyone else to blame for their
issues and want us all to police and be responsible for their property. 

It's this sort of thing that has to be held off or else we become the Big
Brother society that many want us to be.  I know, I know.  We are almost
already there.  It's been Frog Soup (look it up) but we're seeing more of it
happening more openly and I applaud this court for actually having the
testicular fortitude to say NO.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:28 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

Thought this might be found interesting by some

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8498100.stm

Granted not US based but sets a bit of a precedence I think.

 

/ Eje 

 

 





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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Glenn,

I think it's important not be be overly alarmist.

There is every reason to believe that Network Neutrality will allow and
encourage "reasonable network management" practices.

WISPA works responsibly with the FCC and with other governmental
agencies to be sure that they understand the needs of both WISPs and
the public and to incorporate those needs into the regulatory and
legislative framework.

Jack Unger
Chair - WISPA FCC Committee

Glenn Kelley wrote:

What happens if the government states you cannot block any content and or do traffic shaping ... ?
Understand - the talk was to the Free State Foundation - who is against virtually any blocking or traffic shaping

This being said- even the plans you may offer may be out of the window on the other extreme.

I think some regulation is wise personally ! - However if its to broad it does not help - if its to narrow it does not help on the other side of the fence :-)

Like anything - it needs to be wisely thought out and dealt with

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Jack Unger wrote:

I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
it in a bathtub?

Glenn Kelley wrote:

Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to oversee broadband. FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave to the Free State Foundation asked: (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan for Amercia)
“Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the government be able to keep up?”

Much more on the blog: www.HostMedic.com --
_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

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--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993
www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com

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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread Chuck Hogg

I agree here with Marlon that I am afraid that it will turn into an
ISPCon event.  I learn and enjoy a show like MUM or AFMUG much better
than ISPCon.  As both a Vendor and an ISP member, shows like ISPCon
don't have the intimacy like a smaller show does.  I could care less if
it is in Vegas, or some other place, so long as it provides: 

1) A chance to meet with other companies in our industry, large, medium,
or small.
2) A chance to meet with other vendors and work with their special niche
in the market, and have those vendors be WISPA member vendors, not just
any vendor.
3) A highspeed internet connection to make sure I can stay in touch with
home to make sure business continues.
4) Close to the airport, reasonable accommodations, and good food is a
plus.
5) Be reasonable in price.  $250 is WAY too much for me to attend as
an ISP to a tradeshow.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Hi Matt,

I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow 
emails reply to that list not the public one :-).

Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of
Commerce 
president here's my latest project:
http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek

Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding
the 
cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.

We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the 
weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000
people.
http://www.stumpjumpers.org

The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race
chairman 
and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the

physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all

over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle
ranch.

I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2
or 3 
people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the

help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc.
we 
need to find a different way.

So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps
we 
do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.

Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting
some 
kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how

many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do
we 
want?  Who should speak?

Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show
or 
one done by someone else.

I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car 
shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate 
settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I

don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of 
that.  I want to see new product, learn from people better than me, and 
spend time with my peers.

My fear with Ed's group is that they will try to put on a fancy schmancy

show in which the vendors will have to pay so much for floor space that 
they'll demand access to the podiums and we'll end up with a teaching 
track that's always slanted in the direction of products rather than the

overall nature of our business.

Having said all of that.  My plate is already as full as I want it.
I'll 
not be putting  my time where my mouth is.  grin  I'm here to help with 
thoughts and opinions via email but I'll help out as I can which ever
way 
the rest of the committee wishes to see the show move.

Thanks for taking the lead on this!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your
assumptions.

 I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
 putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on
that
 process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our
own
 show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
 potential as a fund raiser.

 What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed
to
 put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show
and
 then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not
scale
 up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right
 now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in
the
 day.

 Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are
willing
 to do it at no cost

Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

2010-02-04 Thread Carl Shivers

After seeing several responses, I have decided to go with a simple Mikrotik
set up. My wireless vendor will sell me the Mikrotik and for an additional
$75 set up my portal with splash page. 

Thanks for all the suggestions. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

How many users behind portal? Do you want to have logins or free access? Do
you need to process credit cards for payments? 


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Carl Shivers
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:56 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Captive Portals

We are setting up a WiFi zone for a customer that wants a splash page. Can
someone give me a recommendation on a good Captive portal device or
software?





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Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

2010-02-04 Thread Butch Evans

On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 11:46 -0600, Carl Shivers wrote: 
 After seeing several responses, I have decided to go with a simple Mikrotik
 set up. My wireless vendor will sell me the Mikrotik and for an additional
 $75 set up my portal with splash page. 

I'm not sure who your vendor is, but you can set up the splash page
yourself pretty easily.  There is a quick tutorial here:
http://stfunoo.be/?p=222

I am assuming that you are looking for a hotspot that shows a splash
page, but does not require the end user to type a login name and
password.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

2010-02-04 Thread Josh Luthman

For future reference the iam8up.com domain works in place of stfunoo.be.
Slightly more professional I guess?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue
that counts.”
--- Winston Churchill


On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com wrote:

 On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 11:46 -0600, Carl Shivers wrote:
  After seeing several responses, I have decided to go with a simple
 Mikrotik
  set up. My wireless vendor will sell me the Mikrotik and for an
 additional
  $75 set up my portal with splash page.

 I'm not sure who your vendor is, but you can set up the splash page
 yourself pretty easily.  There is a quick tutorial here:
 http://stfunoo.be/?p=222

 I am assuming that you are looking for a hotspot that shows a splash
 page, but does not require the end user to type a login name and
 password.

 --
 
 * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
 * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *
 




 
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Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

2010-02-04 Thread Jerry Richardson

Take an evening and go through setting up the MT. Once you spend a  
couple of hours with it you will see that it's not that difficult.  
There is so much info on the web that you can simply follow the  
example configs line by line and get results.

Sent Mobile
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

On Feb 4, 2010, at 9:46 AM, Carl Shivers cshiv...@aristotle.net  
wrote:

 After seeing several responses, I have decided to go with a simple  
 Mikrotik
 set up. My wireless vendor will sell me the Mikrotik and for an  
 additional
 $75 set up my portal with splash page.

 Thanks for all the suggestions.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Alan Long
 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:01 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Captive Portals

 How many users behind portal? Do you want to have logins or free  
 access? Do
 you need to process credit cards for payments?

 
 Aerowire
 Alan Long
 Director of Network Operations
 alan.l...@aerowire.net
 687 North Dean Road
 Auburn, AL 36830
 tel: 3342759998
 mobile: 336092
 

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Carl Shivers
 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:56 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: [WISPA] Captive Portals

 We are setting up a WiFi zone for a customer that wants a splash  
 page. Can
 someone give me a recommendation on a good Captive portal device or
 software?



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 Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2663 - Release Date:  
 02/02/10
 01:35:00



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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread Blake Bowers

I can imagine.  Back in the heyday I would have never tried to go without
reservations.

I took a 21 foot enclosed trailer last year - made about 3k over and above
my costs, selling stuff like trays of assorted NSO Motorola parts,
thousands of dollars at NSO pricing, for 5 bucks.

Just yesterday we set another trailer at the end with 55 gallon drums, and
got around to cleaning out that trailer.  3 drums of electronics that is 
going to
the recycler, and 1 drum of straight trash.

Now we do one of 3 things.

1.  Reload trailer for Dayton again.

2.  Put out ads for a gigantic two way radio flea market

3.  Pile more stuff to the recycler.  I am leaning towards this one.

Time to shut the retail operation down for good and just worry about
towers.

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: lakel...@gbcx.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a 
 room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY. No 
 available rooms for 50 miles.

 I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and 
 abandon the thing!  LOL
://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Mike Hammett

No, but a whirlpool tub, yes.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:39 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
ofnet-neutrality I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do 
you
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
 it in a bathtub?

 Glenn Kelley wrote:
 Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he 
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A 
 broadband plan for Amercia)
 “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
 Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … 
 “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just 
 another type of data app? As the distinction between network operators 
 and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how 
 will the government be able to keep up?”


 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com --
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.



 
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 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 -- 
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
 Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
 Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 
 1993
 www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com






 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Frank Crawford

YES

Jack Unger wrote:
 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?

 Glenn Kelley wrote:
   
 Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates 
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to 
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he 
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband 
 plan for Amercia)
 “Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory 
 Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With 
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another 
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and 
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the 
 government be able to keep up?”


 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.



 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality





So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want
to do it.

BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


Frank Crawford wrote:

  YES

Jack Unger wrote:
  
  
I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
it in a bathtub?

Glenn Kelley wrote:
  


  Title II of the Communications Act—the section that regulates telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband plan for Amercia)
“Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory Rubik’s Cube?…Any Internet company that offers a voice application?” … “With this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn’t voice just another type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the government be able to keep up?”


Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com









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[WISPA] Tech Support - Aaaarrrrggghhh!

2010-02-04 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

Here is an entertaining customer support related link to one of my 
employee's blog posts.  

http://www.happystinkingjoy.com/?p=556

Sounds pretty typical to me.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com




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Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e

2010-02-04 Thread Scott Carullo

There is outdoor cable with two jackets I saw some about a month ago and if 
I find the info I'll send it over.  I saved it because it looked 
interesting.  I have a piece of it somewhere too..  put it in a safe place 
can't find now lol

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102



From: David Hulsebus cont...@portative.net
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:15 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e

Kurt, We bought a box of Belkin outdoor a few years back and it turned 
out to be indoor cable with a second jacket. We put a 150 foot run on a 
tower and crossed a flat roof and down a wall with another drop. Both 
started to loose the outer jacket within a couple of years, it just 
split apart and exposed the indoor cable to the elements. We've since 
replaced both runs. I don't have a part  number but wanted you to know  
our experience.

Dave Hulsebus

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 I seen some cat5e once that had a second jacket around it, it was 
obviously
 made for outdoors and was very durable and it was running through a 
woods
 just laying on the ground. I think it was made by Belkin. Does anyone 
know
 what this is and if you have a link where I can get it that would be 
great.

  

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com

  

  

  



 


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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

2010-02-04 Thread Mike

I can fly to Vegas from either Cedar Rapids or Des Moines for $49.00 on
Allegiant.  Orlando, Phoenix, LA are also direct and cheap.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:24 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 21:16 -0600, Blake Bowers wrote: 
 That sounds like a great idea, but I would like to think the
 WISP folks bathe more often than some of the people at the
 hamfest...

Of course you all realize that the board has already decided to work
with Ed Meeks group and that Ed Meeks group is going to decide the
location of the show (I'd bet on Vegas).  I don't want to quell
discussion, but thought I'd point that out in case anyone was thinking
there may be a way to influence the decision for where the show is held.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *

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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Brad Belton

The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to no
recourse.

 

Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to stand
up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive government
is what America needs.  In order to achieve this we have to remove the
career politicians from office that have clearly lost touch with the people
that elected them.

 

Brad

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
do it.

BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


Frank Crawford wrote: 

YES
 
Jack Unger wrote:
  

I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
it in a bathtub?
 
Glenn Kelley wrote:
  


Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
plan for Amercia)
Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? . With
this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
government be able to keep up?
 
 
Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 


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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 



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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Brad,

There is really only one way to get a smaller government without 
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller 
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding 
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting 
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that 
simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a 
better job for working people because the real influence is the 
big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each new 
crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each old 
group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's power 
actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL political 
campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal number of 
taxpayer dollars to run their campaign. This will help ALL candidates 
remember who they are supposed to be working for (working-class 
taxpayers, not large corporations).

As to regaining some influence for working people with regard to banks, 
I'd recommend that everyone put their money in a local credit union or 
small local community bank. My money has been kept in a local community 
credit union for over 20 years and I feel good about it being there. 
It's contributing to the community instead of being used in an 
irresponsible fashion and/or used against the best interests of the 
community.

Best,
  jack


Brad Belton wrote:
 The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
 organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
 recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to no
 recourse.

  

 Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to stand
 up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive government
 is what America needs.  In order to achieve this we have to remove the
 career politicians from office that have clearly lost touch with the people
 that elected them.

  

 Brad

  

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
 net-neutrality

  

 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
 do it.

 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


 Frank Crawford wrote: 

 YES
  
 Jack Unger wrote:
   

 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?
  
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
   
 

 Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
 plan for Amercia)
 Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
 Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? . With
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
 government be able to keep up?
  
  
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
  
  
  
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
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 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993

Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e

2010-02-04 Thread Jeff Ehman

Double jacket cable comes in both indoor and outdoor.  The difference between 
the two is the mixed into compound.  There are chemicals that make the PE UV 
rated.  They could both feel the exact same (durable and heavy) but one could 
be indoor and crumble in a couple years from sun and one could be outdoor and 
last for years.  You really have to find a reliable supplier that will provide 
information because many just think an aluminum foil shield makes it outdoor.  
THIS IS FAR FROM THE CASE.  

Just because it is heavy does not mean it will be good in the sun. 

-Jeff Ehman
General Manager
Phone: (312) 205-2509
There is a difference


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e

There is outdoor cable with two jackets I saw some about a month ago and if 
I find the info I'll send it over.  I saved it because it looked 
interesting.  I have a piece of it somewhere too..  put it in a safe place 
can't find now lol

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102



From: David Hulsebus cont...@portative.net
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:15 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e

Kurt, We bought a box of Belkin outdoor a few years back and it turned 
out to be indoor cable with a second jacket. We put a 150 foot run on a 
tower and crossed a flat roof and down a wall with another drop. Both 
started to loose the outer jacket within a couple of years, it just 
split apart and exposed the indoor cable to the elements. We've since 
replaced both runs. I don't have a part  number but wanted you to know  
our experience.

Dave Hulsebus

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 I seen some cat5e once that had a second jacket around it, it was 
obviously
 made for outdoors and was very durable and it was running through a 
woods
 just laying on the ground. I think it was made by Belkin. Does anyone 
know
 what this is and if you have a link where I can get it that would be 
great.

  

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com

  

  

  



 


 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 


  
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Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth

2010-02-04 Thread Marco Coelho

Can you give an exact address and quantity of bandwidth you're looking for?

Marco

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Ray  Jean webbil...@surfmore.net wrote:
 Anyone know of a cheap provider of bandwidth in southern middle Tennessee?
 Thanks Ray  Jean


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Brad Belton

Jack,

I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become smaller to
have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist mentality to
think that only government can grow America or help Americans.

America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to better
themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.  America
was not built by grants, entitlements or anything big government can
possibly provide.  Instead our constitution provides a framework outlining
government limitations, so as to prevent government to ever be able to
control the people it governs.  The people of the republic govern not the
other way around.

Countless Americans have given their lives to protect the very freedom big
government takes away.  Government run health care just happens to be the
straw that broke the camel's back and Americans are saying enough is enough
in overwhelming numbers.


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Brad,

There is really only one way to get a smaller government without 
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller 
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding 
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting 
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that 
simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a 
better job for working people because the real influence is the 
big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each new 
crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each old 
group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's power 
actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL political 
campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal number of 
taxpayer dollars to run their campaign. This will help ALL candidates 
remember who they are supposed to be working for (working-class 
taxpayers, not large corporations).

As to regaining some influence for working people with regard to banks, 
I'd recommend that everyone put their money in a local credit union or 
small local community bank. My money has been kept in a local community 
credit union for over 20 years and I feel good about it being there. 
It's contributing to the community instead of being used in an 
irresponsible fashion and/or used against the best interests of the 
community.

Best,
  jack


Brad Belton wrote:
 The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
 organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
 recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to
no
 recourse.

  

 Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to stand
 up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive government
 is what America needs.  In order to achieve this we have to remove the
 career politicians from office that have clearly lost touch with the
people
 that elected them.

  

 Brad

  

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
of
 net-neutrality

  

 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
 do it.

 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


 Frank Crawford wrote: 

 YES
  
 Jack Unger wrote:
   

 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?
  
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
   
 

 Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A
broadband
 plan for Amercia)
 Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
 Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? .
With
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will
the
 government be able to keep up?
  
  
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com --

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread MDK

Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of 
stuff.

Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government 
rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce, 
except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a 
department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of 
pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to 
the tags on your mattress.

It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not 
possibly do without this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume 
nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every 
dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all 
of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in 
everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me 
that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive 
intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that 
is simply not forgivable in the common realm.

Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without 
90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do 
without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if 
it were so.

Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits 
of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind 
ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we 
expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from 
you?







--
From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:48 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
ofnet-neutrality Brad,

 There is really only one way to get a smaller government without
 throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller
 country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding
 population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller 
 government.

 If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting
 the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that
 simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a
 better job for working people because the real influence is the
 big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each new
 crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each old
 group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's power
 actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

 The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL political
 campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal number of
 taxpayer dollars to run their campaign. This will help ALL candidates
 remember who they are supposed to be working for (working-class
 taxpayers, not large corporations).

 As to regaining some influence for working people with regard to banks,
 I'd recommend that everyone put their money in a local credit union or
 small local community bank. My money has been kept in a local community
 credit union for over 20 years and I feel good about it being there.
 It's contributing to the community instead of being used in an
 irresponsible fashion and/or used against the best interests of the
 community.

 Best,
  jack


 Brad Belton wrote:
 The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
 organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
 recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to 
 no
 recourse.



 Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to 
 stand
 up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive 
 government
 is what America needs.  In order to achieve this we have to remove the
 career politicians from office that have clearly lost touch with the 
 people
 that elected them.



 Brad





 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
 of
 net-neutrality



 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want 
 to
 do it.

 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh


 Frank Crawford wrote:

 YES

 Jack Unger wrote:


 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown
 it in a bathtub?

 Glenn Kelley wrote:



 Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
 telecommunications common carriers is now being

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality





Brad, 

You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try
it again. 

When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to
have more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting
over the available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to
maintain order is expected of government, be it large or small
government. A two-person police force is expected to be able to
maintain order in a tiny community and a 10,000 person police force is
expected to be able to maintain order in a large city. A two-person
(small government) police force will not be able to maintain order in
New York or Los Angeles. "Socialism" (however that is defined or
mis-defined) has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to
govern their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large
corporations (banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors,
insurance companies, news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.).
Government has unfortunately become complicit in this dynamic. Today,
big money corporations control government by "buying off" politicians
through large campaign contributions. It doesn't matter if the
politicians are Democrats or Republicans. Our big-money political
system has corrupted virtually all of them. Until we fix our broken
political system by removing the corrupting effect of big money, none
of us will regain the freedoms that were fought for and won by our
ancestors. 

jack



Brad Belton wrote:

  Jack,

I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become smaller to
have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist mentality to
think that only government can grow America or help Americans.

America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to better
themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.  America
was not built by grants, entitlements or anything big government can
possibly provide.  Instead our constitution provides a framework outlining
government limitations, so as to prevent government to ever be able to
control the people it governs.  The people of the republic govern not the
other way around.

Countless Americans have given their lives to protect the very freedom big
government takes away.  Government run health care just happens to be the
straw that broke the camel's back and Americans are saying enough is enough
in overwhelming numbers.


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Brad,

There is really only one way to get a smaller government without 
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller 
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding 
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting 
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that 
simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a 
better job for working people because the real influence is the 
big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each new 
crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each old 
group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's power 
actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL political 
campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal number of 
taxpayer dollars to run their campaign. This will help ALL candidates 
remember who they are supposed to be working for (working-class 
taxpayers, not large corporations).

As to regaining some influence for working people with regard to banks, 
I'd recommend that everyone put their money in a local credit union or 
small local community bank. My money has been kept in a local community 
credit union for over 20 years and I feel good about it being there. 
It's contributing to the community instead of being used in an 
irresponsible fashion and/or used against the best interests of the 
community.

Best,
  jack


Brad Belton wrote:
  
  
The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to

  
  no
  
  
recourse.

 

Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to stand
up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive government
is what

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality





Sorry Mark, 

I truly appreciate and enjoy responding to all appropriate and
responsible posts but your LONG HISTORY of troll behavior will FOREVER
elicit the same response from me. 

I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed
the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. 



MDK wrote:

  Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of 
stuff.

Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government 
rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce, 
except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a 
department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of 
pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to 
the tags on your mattress.

It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not 
possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume 
nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every 
dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all 
of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in 
everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me 
that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive 
intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that 
is simply not forgivable in the common realm.

Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without 
90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do 
without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if 
it were so.

Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits 
of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind 
ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we 
expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from 
you?







--
From: "Jack Unger" jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:48 PM
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation ofnet-neutrality Brad,
  
  
There is really only one way to get a smaller government without
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller 
government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that
simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a
better job for working people because the real influence is the
big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each new
crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each old
group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's power
actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL political
campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal number of
taxpayer dollars to run their campaign. This will help ALL candidates
remember who they are supposed to be working for (working-class
taxpayers, not large corporations).

As to regaining some influence for working people with regard to banks,
I'd recommend that everyone put their money in a local credit union or
small local community bank. My money has been kept in a local community
credit union for over 20 years and I feel good about it being there.
It's contributing to the community instead of being used in an
irresponsible fashion and/or used against the best interests of the
community.

Best,
 jack


Brad Belton wrote:


  The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to 
no
recourse.



Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to 
stand
up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive 
government
is what America needs.  In order to achieve this we have to remove the
career politicians from office that have clearly lost touch with the 
people
that elected them.



Brad





From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
of
net-neutrality



So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want 
to
do it.

BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh


Frank Crawford wrote:

YES

Jack

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Jeff Broadwick

Wow Jack!
 
99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern their
own lives.
 
I believe that there are a small percent of people who knowingly or
unknowingly have turned their lives over to someone else, but to say that it
is 99% is just wrong.  

Jeff 
 

Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)


 



From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality


Brad, 

You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
again. 

When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. Socialism (however that is
defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern
their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large corporations
(banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors, insurance companies,
news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.). Government has
unfortunately become complicit in this dynamic. Today, big money
corporations control government by buying off politicians through large
campaign contributions. It doesn't matter if the politicians are Democrats
or Republicans. Our big-money political system has corrupted virtually all
of them.  Until we fix our broken political system by removing the
corrupting effect of big money, none of us will regain the freedoms that
were fought for and won by our ancestors. 

jack



Brad Belton wrote: 

Jack,

I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become
smaller to
have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist
mentality to
think that only government can grow America or help Americans.

America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to
better
themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.
America
was not built by grants, entitlements or anything big government can
possibly provide.  Instead our constitution provides a framework
outlining
government limitations, so as to prevent government to ever be able
to
control the people it governs.  The people of the republic govern
not the
other way around.

Countless Americans have given their lives to protect the very
freedom big
government takes away.  Government run health care just happens to
be the
straw that broke the camel's back and Americans are saying enough is
enough
in overwhelming numbers.


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
regulation of
net-neutrality

Brad,

There is really only one way to get a smaller government without 
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a
smaller 
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an
exploding 
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller
government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as
voting 
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not
that 
simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a

better job for working people because the real influence is the 
big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each
new 
crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each
old 
group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's
power 
actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL
political 
campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal
number of 
taxpayer

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread RickG

Jack, make that two trolls :)

With all due respect, isnt that exactly how liberals respond to conservative
claims - by demonizing them? Marks comments were spot on and I couldnt have
said them any better, so I'm resending them with my name on the end. I
respect your right to your viewpoint but I hope you have data to support the
claims. I know the the data is there for the more conservative claims. So,
just in case you hit delete:

Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
the tags on your mattress.

It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
possibly do without this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
is simply not forgivable in the common realm.

Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
it were so.

Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
you?

-RickG

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote:

  Sorry Mark,

 I truly appreciate and enjoy responding to all appropriate and responsible
 posts but your LONG HISTORY of troll behavior will FOREVER elicit the same
 response from me.

 I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the
 troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll.



 MDK wrote:

 Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of
 stuff.

 Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
 rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
 except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
 department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
 pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
 the tags on your mattress.

 It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
 possibly do without this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
 nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
 dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
 of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
 everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
 that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
 intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
 is simply not forgivable in the common realm.

 Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
 90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
 without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
 it were so.

 Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
 of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
 ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
 expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
 you?







 --
 From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com jun...@ask-wi.com
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:48 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation 
 ofnet-neutrality Brad,


  There is really only one way to get a smaller government without
 throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller
 country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding
 population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller
 government.

 If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting
 the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that
 simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a
 better job for working people because the real

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Brad Belton

Jack,

 

Your police analogy is flawed.  

 

While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of a
larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger population
requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
applied to all regardless of the size of population.

 

Agreed, the more people that give up and begin to simply depend on the
government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
you enjoy.

 

Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
they can provide a better service/price than the big guys.  Wireless
providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors open)
exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and acted
upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government stays
out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
charge the better my business does!

 

What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to take
TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out of
their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small business
with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.

 

Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ people
weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if it
were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.

 

I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
know.just coast along I guess?

 

Best,

 

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

Brad, 

You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
again. 

When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. Socialism (however that is
defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern
their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large corporations
(banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors, insurance companies,
news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.). Government has
unfortunately become complicit in this dynamic. Today, big money
corporations control government by buying off politicians through large
campaign contributions. It doesn't matter if the politicians are Democrats
or Republicans. Our big-money political system has corrupted virtually all
of them.  Until we fix our broken political system by removing the
corrupting effect of big money, none of us will regain the freedoms that
were fought for and won by our ancestors. 

jack



Brad Belton wrote: 

Jack,
 
I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become smaller to
have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist mentality to
think that only government can grow America or help Americans.
 
America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to better
themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.  America
was not built by grants, entitlements or anything big government can
possibly provide.  Instead our constitution provides a framework outlining
government limitations, so as to prevent government to ever be able to
control the people it governs.  The people of the republic govern not the
other way around.
 
Countless Americans have given their lives to protect the very freedom big
government takes

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

They'll keep up by slowing us down with regulation.  They're good at such
activity.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:55 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
plan for Amercia)
Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? . With
this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
government be able to keep up?

Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

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Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

If enough ISP's take the position of not my job and stick to it, it may
hold them off.  Problem is most ISPs are their own little kingdom with no
meaningful interaction with other operators.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bret Clark
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPS Cleared of copyright infringement

Doesn't really set a precedence in the US, oversees rulings are not
material in US courts unless it involves a US law. 

My concern though is that if the Comcast/NBC deal goes through, Comcast
will suddenly be an even bigger content owner (granted they have small
content now) and I fear they will lobby hard for ISP's to be content
police. 

On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 08:27 -0600, Eje Gustafsson wrote:

 Thought this might be found interesting by some

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8498100.stm

 Granted not US based but sets a bit of a precedence I think.

 / Eje 

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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Yeah.  Imagine having someone think that wasting ones money to gambling
being a bad thing and then actually saying so.  As my grandmother may of
said if she ever said it.

Why, I never!

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Ya, and they can use the business now that Obama spoke out against them!

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote:

 Why would you not have it at Vegas, like most other conventions?  Most
days
 we can fly there and back for under $100 total round-trip.  Rooms are
 cheap,
 and there is plenty of other stuff to do.  Oh, and free booze.  :-)

 On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:

  I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
  normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
 
  Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
  packed
  as
  it was 10 years ago too.
 
  4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the
first
  place I stopped at, a Drury.
 
  Don't take your organs to heaven,
  heaven knows we need them down here!
  Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
  To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
   Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging
 in
   the
   area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
   convention.
   There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for
 your
   idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
   locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a
lot
  of
   competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
   higher
   airfare.
  
  
  
   Thank You,
   Brian Webster
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
   Behalf Of Robert West
   Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
   To: 'WISPA General List'
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
  
  
   Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..
  
   I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of
  the
   large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only
so
   much
   I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go
 across
   town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same
 sort
   of
   towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way
would
  we
   get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.
   The
   bonus is, it could be used as a marketing tool to bring in even more
   people
   without any more effort.  I'd certainly go out of my way for an event
  that
   would cover radio gear as well as the hardware and safety.  A lot of
us
   WISP
   operators deal with HAMS and go to their conventions anyhow.  Unless,
 of
   course, the WISPA show is stuffed with a full assortment of what we
 use.
   :)
  
  
   Anyway, just an idea.
  
   Bob-
  
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
   Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
   Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 1:31 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
  
   All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your
 assumptions.
  
   I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
   putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on
 that
   process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our
own
   show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
   potential as a fund raiser.
  
   What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed
 to
   put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show
and
   then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not
 scale
   up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right
   now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in
 the
   day.
  
   Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are
 willing
   to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so
   that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP
   business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show
   that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it
on
   a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can
spread
   WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

If you want to be treated like cattle, have a show in Vegas.  You're just
the latest.  Want to be appreciated? Go to a less popular and less flashy
venue that has shows less frequently.  (NOT BRANSON!)

You will be king!  Unless, of course you're female then being King would be
a bit scary for you and those around you.

Bob-

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:13 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

*shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large conference.
There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and visited
probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't even
find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week. 
Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler. 
Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental minivan
on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the hour.
Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car on
a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back to
sleep. 

The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;) 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY. No
available rooms for 50 miles. 

I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
abandon the thing!  LOL

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47 
To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.

Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as packed

as
it was 10 years ago too.

4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
place I stopped at, a Drury.

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in 
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the 
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay 
 higher
 airfare.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..

 I had a thought that maybe it could be held at the same time as one of the
 large Ham conventions, like the one they hold in Dayton, Ohio.  Only so 
 much
 I can see and do at a 3 day event, would be great to be able to go across
 town or wherever to another event that would have a lot of the same sort 
 of
 towers, tools, safety gear that we use as Wisp operators.  No way would we
 get these type of vendors to come to a Wisp only show, in my opinion.  The
 bonus is, it could be used as a marketing tool to bring in even more 
 people
 without any more effort.  I'd certainly go out of my way for an event that
 would cover radio gear as well as the hardware and safety.  A lot of us 
 WISP
 operators deal with HAMS and go to their conventions anyhow.  Unless, of
 course, the WISPA show is stuffed with a full assortment of what we use.
 :)


 Anyway, just an idea.

 Bob-

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

First my car wouldn't start then I find that my cat was ran over and now
this!  Thanks a lot, Butch!  Jesus...  Unbelievable

:)

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:24 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 21:16 -0600, Blake Bowers wrote: 
 That sounds like a great idea, but I would like to think the
 WISP folks bathe more often than some of the people at the
 hamfest...

Of course you all realize that the board has already decided to work
with Ed Meeks group and that Ed Meeks group is going to decide the
location of the show (I'd bet on Vegas).  I don't want to quell
discussion, but thought I'd point that out in case anyone was thinking
there may be a way to influence the decision for where the show is held.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *






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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isnt about the
show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get there.
A show in Vegas has become a cliché.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 

If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place -
IMHO 

When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets for
prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place I
would like to take my family on vacation. 

Disney sounds better ;-)

Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 



_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:

 Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
 rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
 
 Randy
 
 
 On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
 *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
 families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
conference.
 There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
 enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
 available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
visited
 probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
even
 find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
 Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
 Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
minivan
 on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
 alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
 suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
hour.
 Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
on
 a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
 parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
to
 sleep.
 
 The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
 
 / Eje
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
 room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
No
 available rooms for 50 miles.
 
 I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
 abandon the thing!  LOL
 
 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Blake Bowersbbow...@mozarks.com
 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
 To:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
 normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
 
 Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
packed
 
 as
 it was 10 years ago too.
 
 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
 place I stopped at, a Drury.
 
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Websterbwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
 
 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for
your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot
of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
 higher
 airfare.
 
 
 
 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:06 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
 Okay, I'd like to throw an idea out there and see who yells..
 
 I had a thought that maybe it could be

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Now ya tell me!  Sorry, just saw this after posting 78 show emails to the
public list  :)

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: wispas...@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

Hi Matt,

I'm moving this back to the show list.  I still request that wispashow 
emails reply to that list not the public one :-).

Anyway, I understand what you are saying.  As our local Chamber of Commerce 
president here's my latest project:
http://www.odessachamber.net/bikeweek

Almost all I'm doing is managing the folks doing the leg work.  Herding the 
cats as it were...  It's certainly quite a bit of work.

We're expecting 200 to 400 people to show up during the week.  On the 
weekend the 40th annual Desert 100 race will bring in roughly 6000 people.
http://www.stumpjumpers.org

The race takes nearly an entire year to pull off.  There is a race chairman 
and a vice.  This year's vice becomes next year's chairman.  Much of the 
physical work involves marking the track, a task that has to be done all 
over every year because the ground is normally a production cattle ranch.

I certainly agree with you that the lack of a very dedicated team of 2 or 3 
people would certainly hurt our chances of success.  If we can't get the 
help, have no one ready to step up and take ownership of the event etc. we 
need to find a different way.

So far, however, this hasn't been hashed out on the show list.  Perhaps we 
do have the people ready to dedicate themselves to the effort.

Also, one thing that it seems to me that needs to be done is setting some 
kind of show expectation and outline.  How many people are expected, how 
many vendors, do we want more training or display?  How many speakers do we 
want?  Who should speak?

Much of the planning we'd have to do will be the same for our own show or 
one done by someone else.

I've been to the big shows (WCA, ISPCon, and others).  I've been to car 
shows and gun shows.  By far, my favorites are smaller more intimate 
settings that are not making any real effort at playing the big shot.  I 
don't care about fancy hotels, convention centers, NFL cities or any of 
that.  I want to see new product, learn from people better than me, and 
spend time with my peers.

My fear with Ed's group is that they will try to put on a fancy schmancy 
show in which the vendors will have to pay so much for floor space that 
they'll demand access to the podiums and we'll end up with a teaching 
track that's always slanted in the direction of products rather than the 
overall nature of our business.

Having said all of that.  My plate is already as full as I want it.  I'll 
not be putting  my time where my mouth is.  grin  I'm here to help with 
thoughts and opinions via email but I'll help out as I can which ever way 
the rest of the committee wishes to see the show move.

Thanks for taking the lead on this!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show


 All due respect Marlon, but I'm going to disagree with your assumptions.

 I have spent the last three months researching the possibility of
 putting on a show and evaluating our options.   Before I started on that
 process, I felt the same way that you do about WISPA putting on our own
 show.   I thought that it would be some work, but doable, and had some
 potential as a fund raiser.

 What was truly eye opening to me is the amount of work that is needed to
 put a show on properly.   IMHO, WISPCON got lucky on the first show and
 then it degraded when the organizational and sales efforts did not scale
 up to the potential of the show.   The market is quite different right
 now, and I don't think that we would be as lucky as P-15 was back in the
 day.

 Ed's group puts on trade shows - that is their focus.   They are willing
 to do it at no cost to us, and to help us build our membership up so
 that both sides will benefit.   They don't know much about the WISP
 business, so we have an opportunity to work with them to design a show
 that our members would all like to go to.They are going to do it on
 a much larger scale than what we had planned on doing, so we can spread
 WISPAs message beyond our own little community.Those are strong
 positives.

 Most importantly, we will not have to commit our money or manpower to
 the project.Money is not that big of a deal, but manpower is.We
 will not be able to put on a show with volunteer manpower, and it isn't
 really a question of just hiring someone because the job requirements go
 far beyond just being an ED type or a sales person.   These guys have a
 staff of people who specialize in this kind of work and can get it

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

And me and my pack of highly trained Wispa Ninja warriors will be waiting
for them to thwart their plans of conquest!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
do it.

BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


Frank Crawford wrote: 

YES
 
Jack Unger wrote:
  

I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
it in a bathtub?
 
Glenn Kelley wrote:
  


Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
plan for Amercia)
Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? . With
this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
government be able to keep up?
 
 
Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  

  

  


 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  





-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Good point Jeff ! :)

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 Wow Jack!
  
 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern their
 own lives.
  
 I believe that there are a small percent of people who knowingly or
 unknowingly have turned their lives over to someone else, but to say that it
 is 99% is just wrong.  

 Jeff 
  

 Regards,

 Jeff


 Jeff Broadwick
 ImageStream
 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
 +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)


  

 

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 8:56 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
 net-neutrality


 Brad, 

 You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
 again. 

 When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
 more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
 available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
 is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
 police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
 and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
 a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
 to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. Socialism (however that is
 defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

 America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
 government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
 today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern
 their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large corporations
 (banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors, insurance companies,
 news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.). Government has
 unfortunately become complicit in this dynamic. Today, big money
 corporations control government by buying off politicians through large
 campaign contributions. It doesn't matter if the politicians are Democrats
 or Republicans. Our big-money political system has corrupted virtually all
 of them.  Until we fix our broken political system by removing the
 corrupting effect of big money, none of us will regain the freedoms that
 were fought for and won by our ancestors. 

 jack



 Brad Belton wrote: 

   Jack,
   
   I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become
 smaller to
   have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist
 mentality to
   think that only government can grow America or help Americans.
   
   America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to
 better
   themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.
 America
   was not built by grants, entitlements or anything big government can
   possibly provide.  Instead our constitution provides a framework
 outlining
   government limitations, so as to prevent government to ever be able
 to
   control the people it governs.  The people of the republic govern
 not the
   other way around.
   
   Countless Americans have given their lives to protect the very
 freedom big
   government takes away.  Government run health care just happens to
 be the
   straw that broke the camel's back and Americans are saying enough is
 enough
   in overwhelming numbers.
   
   
   Brad
   
   
   -Original Message-
   From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
   Behalf Of Jack Unger
   Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:48 PM
   To: WISPA General List
   Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in
 regulation of
   net-neutrality
   
   Brad,
   
   There is really only one way to get a smaller government without 
   throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a
 smaller 
   country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an
 exploding 
   population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller
 government.
   
   If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as
 voting 
   the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not
 that 
   simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a

   better job for working people because the real influence is the 
   big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each
 new 
   crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each
 old 
   group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's
 power 
   actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.
   
   The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL
 political 
   campaigns. Each nominee

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Ah, but what about the newly found free speech rights of corporations?
You aren't allowed to limit their speech (DOLLARS) now according to most
of the fine folks over at the supreme court.  

Of course, OURS will then be drowned out by their deep pockets full of
speech  

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Brad,

There is really only one way to get a smaller government without 
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller 
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding 
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting 
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately it's not that 
simple. Voting the incumbents out won't result in government doing a 
better job for working people because the real influence is the 
big-corporation money that finances the election campaigns for each new 
crop of political nominees. The big-money lobbyists remain when each old 
group of politicians is voted out so the big-money corporation's power 
actually becomes greater and greater as time goes on.

The solution that I propose is equal public financing for ALL political 
campaigns. Each nominee (and incumbent) would receive an equal number of 
taxpayer dollars to run their campaign. This will help ALL candidates 
remember who they are supposed to be working for (working-class 
taxpayers, not large corporations).

As to regaining some influence for working people with regard to banks, 
I'd recommend that everyone put their money in a local credit union or 
small local community bank. My money has been kept in a local community 
credit union for over 20 years and I feel good about it being there. 
It's contributing to the community instead of being used in an 
irresponsible fashion and/or used against the best interests of the 
community.

Best,
  jack


Brad Belton wrote:
 The fundamental difference that Jack fails to recognize is if a bank (or
 organization other than the government) does treat you unfairly you have
 recourse.  If your own government treats you unfairly, you have little to
no
 recourse.

  

 Yes, we can all only hope the majority of Americans will continue to stand
 up and say no more to big government.  A smaller less intrusive government
 is what America needs.  In order to achieve this we have to remove the
 career politicians from office that have clearly lost touch with the
people
 that elected them.

  

 Brad

  

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
of
 net-neutrality

  

 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
 do it.

 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


 Frank Crawford wrote: 

 YES
  
 Jack Unger wrote:
   

 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?
  
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
   
 

 Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A
broadband
 plan for Amercia)
 Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
 Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? .
With
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will
the
 government be able to keep up?
  
  
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 


 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
  
  
  


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality





Just keep saying to yourself. 

1. Overpopulation is good. 

2 Political corruption does not exist. 

Good luck and best wishes.  ;-) 

jack


RickG wrote:

  Jack, make that two trolls :)

With all due respect, isnt that exactly how liberals respond to conservative
claims - by demonizing them? Marks comments were spot on and I couldnt have
said them any better, so I'm resending them with my name on the end. I
respect your right to your viewpoint but I hope you have data to support the
claims. I know the the data is there for the more conservative claims. So,
just in case you hit delete:

Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
the tags on your mattress.

It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
is simply not forgivable in the common realm.

Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
it were so.

Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
you?

-RickG

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote:

  
  
 Sorry Mark,

I truly appreciate and enjoy responding to all appropriate and responsible
posts but your LONG HISTORY of troll behavior will FOREVER elicit the same
response from me.

I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the
troll. I will not feed the troll. I will not feed the troll.



MDK wrote:

Jack, it remains very  difficult to be civil, when you post this kind of
stuff.

Since the founding of the country until the 1960's, the federal government
rarely spent more than single digit percentaqes of everything we produce,
except in time of war.We as a nation prospered immensely without a
department of education, federal welfare, and millions upon millions of
pages of regulations that covered everything from our toilet tank size to
the tags on your mattress.

It is precisely and amazingly preposterous to think that we could not
possibly "do without" this massive nanny state that's threatening to consume
nearly 35% of everything produced, and directly control over 1/2 of every
dollar earned in this country.Your statement is utterly insulting to all
of us.Not only can we live without the federal government's nose in
everything we do, we would be MUCH better off if it were so.   To tell me
that  I and all of the rest of us are incapable of survival without massive
intrusion into our lives by politicians in Washington DC is an insult that
is simply not forgivable in the common realm.

Not only could we do without 80% of all the agencies, we could do without
90% of all the millions of pages of rules and laws.   We could not only do
without, we would be healthier, happier, wealthier, and more responsible if
it were so.

Your comment has slipped over the edge from simple discussion of the merits
of federal actions vs our businesses and how we earn a living, to a blind
ideological fantasy, where all comes from Washington DC.These things we
expect from Politicians... they are by nature self serving...   But why from
you?







--
From: "Jack Unger" jun...@ask-wi.com jun...@ask-wi.com
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:48 PM
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation ofnet-neutrality Brad,


 There is really only one way to get a smaller government without
throwing society into total disarray. That method is to have a smaller
country, in other words, a lower level of population. With an exploding
population there is just no way that I can see to get a smaller
government.

If only reclaiming our country for working people was as easy as voting
the incumbents out that would be GREAT but unfortunately

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

On the contrary Brad. Not all but a lot of what you just said I agree 
with. You are obviously a sharp thinker and I absolutely respect that.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your thinking.

Best of luck.

Respectfully,
  jack


Brad Belton wrote:
 Jack,

  

 Your police analogy is flawed.  

  

 While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of a
 larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
 invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger population
 requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
 applied to all regardless of the size of population.

  

 Agreed, the more people that give up and begin to simply depend on the
 government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
 becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
 more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
 government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
 you enjoy.

  

 Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
 they can provide a better service/price than the big guys.  Wireless
 providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors open)
 exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and acted
 upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government stays
 out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
 charge the better my business does!

  

 What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
 is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to take
 TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out of
 their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small business
 with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
 that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
 by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.

  

 Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ people
 weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
 which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if it
 were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.

  

 I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
 Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
 know.just coast along I guess?

  

 Best,

  

  

 Brad

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
 net-neutrality

  

 Brad, 

 You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
 again. 

 When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
 more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
 available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
 is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
 police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
 and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
 a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
 to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. Socialism (however that is
 defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

 America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
 government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
 today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern
 their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large corporations
 (banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors, insurance companies,
 news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.). Government has
 unfortunately become complicit in this dynamic. Today, big money
 corporations control government by buying off politicians through large
 campaign contributions. It doesn't matter if the politicians are Democrats
 or Republicans. Our big-money political system has corrupted virtually all
 of them.  Until we fix our broken political system by removing the
 corrupting effect of big money, none of us will regain the freedoms that
 were fought for and won by our ancestors. 

 jack



 Brad Belton wrote: 

 Jack,
  
 I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become smaller to
 have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist mentality to
 think that only government can grow America or help Americans.
  
 America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to better
 themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.  America
 was not built by grants,

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

On the contrary Brad. Not all but a lot of what you just said I agree 
with. You are obviously a sharp thinker and I absolutely respect that.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your thinking.

Best of luck.

Respectfully,
  jack


Brad Belton wrote:
 Jack,

  

 Your police analogy is flawed.  

  

 While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of a
 larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
 invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger population
 requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
 applied to all regardless of the size of population.

  

 Agreed, the more people that give up and begin to simply depend on the
 government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
 becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
 more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
 government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
 you enjoy.

  

 Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
 they can provide a better service/price than the big guys.  Wireless
 providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors open)
 exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and acted
 upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government stays
 out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
 charge the better my business does!

  

 What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
 is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to take
 TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out of
 their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small business
 with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
 that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
 by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.

  

 Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ people
 weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
 which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if it
 were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.

  

 I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
 Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
 know.just coast along I guess?

  

 Best,

  

  

 Brad

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
 net-neutrality

  

 Brad, 

 You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
 again. 

 When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
 more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
 available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
 is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
 police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
 and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
 a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
 to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. Socialism (however that is
 defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

 America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
 government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
 today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern
 their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large corporations
 (banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors, insurance companies,
 news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.). Government has
 unfortunately become complicit in this dynamic. Today, big money
 corporations control government by buying off politicians through large
 campaign contributions. It doesn't matter if the politicians are Democrats
 or Republicans. Our big-money political system has corrupted virtually all
 of them.  Until we fix our broken political system by removing the
 corrupting effect of big money, none of us will regain the freedoms that
 were fought for and won by our ancestors. 

 jack



 Brad Belton wrote: 

 Jack,
  
 I completely disagree with the notion that America has to become smaller to
 have a smaller less invasive government!  It is a socialist mentality to
 think that only government can grow America or help Americans.
  
 America achieved its success by people utilizing their abilities to better
 themselves and their lives free of an overly burdening government.  America
 was not built by grants,

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Thank God you're here!!

Can I please join the pack ???  :-[



Robert West wrote:
 And me and my pack of highly trained Wispa Ninja warriors will be waiting
 for them to thwart their plans of conquest!

  

  

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
 net-neutrality

  

 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
 do it.

 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


 Frank Crawford wrote: 

 YES
  
 Jack Unger wrote:
   

 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?
  
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
   
 

 Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
 plan for Amercia)
 Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
 Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? . With
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
 government be able to keep up?
  
  
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 
 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
  
  
  
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  
   
 
   

   
 

  
  
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  
   





   

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

LOL makes me recall article I read earlier tonight. 
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-04/at-t-s-iphone-deal-swamps-networ
k-sparking-consumer-rebellion.html

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:37 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

And me and my pack of highly trained Wispa Ninja warriors will be waiting
for them to thwart their plans of conquest!

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
do it.

BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


Frank Crawford wrote: 

YES
 
Jack Unger wrote:
  

I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
it in a bathtub?
 
Glenn Kelley wrote:
  


Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A broadband
plan for Amercia)
Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? . With
this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will the
government be able to keep up?
 
 
Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  

  

  


 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
  





-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
 
 
 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





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http://signup.wispa.org/

 
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Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Life, Liberty, Property.

Those were the basics that our government was formed to protect for us.  

For the common defense.

It's now morphed from the government For the people into people For the
government. As long as there are greedy people and the what about mine?
thinkers, it won't get any better.

As far as the current situation I think we should bring back the war tax and
the draft.  Now hear me out on this

Are we at war?  Where?  I dunno, I'm not involved in any way, shape or form.
Not directly anyhow.  So it continues to zap the life out of this country.
We've sanitized the citizenry out of war thus it can go on forever without
much thought from those of us out here trying to live our lives and put food
on the table and pay for the folly of it all.  

If we had a war tax and kids were being drafted, we'd all be involved, more
commonly polarized and I guarantee you we wouldn't be pouring billions every
month down useless well.

Just my crazy thoughts.

Bob-







-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:38 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Jack,

 

Your police analogy is flawed.  

 

While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of a
larger population it does not take a larger government body with increased
invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger population
requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
applied to all regardless of the size of population.

 

Agreed, the more people that give up and begin to simply depend on the
government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
you enjoy.

 

Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
they can provide a better service/price than the big guys.  Wireless
providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors open)
exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and acted
upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government stays
out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big Telco's
charge the better my business does!

 

What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending?  GM
is still losing Billions of dollars, the big banks that were forced to take
TARP haven't changed and many have repaid TARP to get the government out of
their business.  Is it such a bad thing to own and operate a small business
with no long term debt?  Sure, it makes getting the company off the ground
that much harder, but it also creates a personal investment and commitment
by the proprietor beyond any cash infusion.

 

Unemployment is nearing record highs as those (evil guys) that employ people
weather the storm of uncertainty.  People are losing their homes.many of
which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if it
were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.

 

I can go on, but I get the feeling none of this makes any sense to you,
Jack.  That's fine with me.there are those that do and those that.I don't
know.just coast along I guess?

 

Best,

 

 

Brad

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

 

Brad, 

You are misunderstanding or ignoring what I've been saying so let's try it
again. 

When you have more people crowded into the same space your are going to have
more frequent and more complex problems, including more fighting over the
available amount of resources. Like it or not, attempting to maintain order
is expected of government, be it large or small government. A two-person
police force is expected to be able to maintain order in a tiny community
and a 10,000 person police force is expected to be able to maintain order in
a large city. A two-person (small government) police force will not be able
to maintain order in New York or Los Angeles. Socialism (however that is
defined or mis-defined)  has nothing to do with this basic dynamic. 

America was built by hard-working people who thrived within the limited
government framework that the founding fathers provided. Unfortunately
today, 99% of the working people have lost or given up their power to govern
their own lives. That power now resides in the hands of large corporations
(banks, factory farms, seed companies, meat processors, insurance companies,
news networks, incumbent telecom companies, etc.). Government

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

2010-02-04 Thread Tom DeReggi

Brad,

  People are losing their homes.many of
 which never should have been afforded the privilege of home ownership if 
 it
 were not for big government forcing lenders to lend to unqualified buyers.

You had me, until the above paragraph.  That is a crock of ShXX.

Most housing foreclosures are conscious business decissions by the middle 
class, to improve their finance and cash flow. They ask, Is it worth 
continuing to sink money into this bad investment losing money?  I will say 
that there are a shortage of buyer. So when an investor cant offload their 
losing investment (House) to someone else, they resort to less ethical 
choices.
What does someone do if their house jsut lost 50k in value? IF they go to 
foreclosure, they can pretty much live rent free for a year in their home, 
before they are forced out. If they put their rent check in hidden savings 
instead, they earn 50k that year. That combined with gettting out of a loan 
taht is valued at mor ethan the house, it is a net $100k earning, for doing 
nothing. They learn they can earn more losing their home than some people do 
holding on to their home as an investment to resale.

And governments were not the ones forcing lenders to lend. Its the 
opposite Government regulation is unnecessarilly setting regulations to 
make buying harder for consumers, to address a problem that didn't exist.

Some People loose homes because a home is a 30 year commitment, and its 
hard for anyone to predict how one's life will pan out every year for 30 
years. All it takes is one bad year, and there goes the house. People loose 
houses because they loose jobs.  People loose houses because most personal 
debt is secured by their house, and loosing the house is the easiest way to 
get rid of the other debt. People lose houses because they cant live within 
their mean in other areas of their life. Or because they set their sights to 
high. But the biggest reason people default, is because they develop a sense 
of satisfaction or entitlement in screwing their lender when they feel they 
were taken advantage of by their lendor. Even with Bankruptcy, there are 
some interesing stats, for example, almost all people that go bankrupt 
religiously paid their bills the many years prior to, and that they had an 
average interest increase of 80-100% the year they filed.  The borrower 
could have paid and wanted to pay, but whenthey felt there was no way out of 
getting screwed by the lender, they make a business decission.

Part of the problem was dishonest overstated appraisals, and greedy lenders 
approving loans at values higher than the homes should be worth. Sure there 
is a percentage of foreclosure that are legitimate cases where the homeowner 
can no longer afford to pay their mortgage. But many are conscience business 
decissions on their investment. Why do you think Obama decided to help 
Middle class save their homes, while they let the most needy loose their 
homes? A Interest rate savings canbe justified as a clear business decission 
that might influence the middle class home owner to want to keep their home, 
instead of purposely defaulting.

I will agree that the Government is not taking the right approach to solve 
the problems.  But they surely are not the cause of the problem.  Assisting 
Americans into HomeOwnership is one of the largest success stories for 
America. And government assistance (such as FHA loan) was one of the answers 
to when the private sector was not willing to solve the problem on their 
own.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

 Brad Belton wrote:
 Jack,



 Your police analogy is flawed.



 While it may take a larger police force to serve and insure the safety of 
 a
 larger population it does not take a larger government body with 
 increased
 invasion of those people's lives to govern effectively.  A larger 
 population
 requires no more or fewer laws than a small population as the laws are
 applied to all regardless of the size of population.



 Agreed, the more people that give up and begin to simply depend on the
 government to provide for them the worse our country (or any country)
 becomes.  This is exactly what big government wants; the people to become
 more dependent on them.  The more dependent the people become on big
 government the more power they have over your life and the fewer freedoms
 you enjoy.



 Why is it that so many small businesses exist?  They exist partly because
 they can provide a better service/price than the big guys.  Wireless
 providers (other than those looking for a handout to keep their doors 
 open)
 exist because the ILECs created an opportunity that we identified and 
 acted
 upon.  Capitalism and the market works well as long as big government 
 stays
 out of it.  I don't know about the rest here, but the more the big 
 Telco's
 charge the better my business does!



 What does America have to show for all the ridiculous recent spending? 
 GM

Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of net-neutrality

Yes.  You shall be admitted to the Brave Order of the Wispa Ninja Warriors
and will be permitted to enjoy all the benefits of this association.  This
includes, but is not limited to, being declared Right and Correct to any
one post of your choosing to the Wispa list per month.  

We only ask that if you are secretly a member of the Motorola Knights of
Cover, you renounce your allegiance to this faux society and swear
allegiance to your brothers here.

Welcome, Brother.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation of
net-neutrality

Thank God you're here!!

Can I please join the pack ???  :-[



Robert West wrote:
 And me and my pack of highly trained Wispa Ninja warriors will be waiting
 for them to thwart their plans of conquest!

  

  

  

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jack Unger
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:01 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Common Carrier or what: The FCC's role in regulation
of
 net-neutrality

  

 So, now that government has been drowned, the huge banks, insurance
 companies, telecoms can do whatever they want to you whenever they want to
 do it.

 BWh, haaa, h, haaa, hh 


 Frank Crawford wrote: 

 YES
  
 Jack Unger wrote:
   

 I trust that government will be able to keep up just fine. Do you 
 support the alternative of making government so small that you can drown 
 it in a bathtub?
  
 Glenn Kelley wrote:
   
 

 Title II of the Communications Act-the section that regulates
 telecommunications common carriers is now being considered by the FCC to
 oversee broadband.  FCC Commissioner Robert M. McDowell during a talk he
 gave to the Free State Foundation asked:  (see First Do No Harm: A
broadband
 plan for Amercia)
 Exactly what kind of companies might get tangled up into this regulatory
 Rubik's Cube?.Any Internet company that offers a voice application? .
With
 this newfound authority, why stop at voice apps? Isn't voice just another
 type of data app? As the distinction between network operators and
 application providers continues to blur at an eye-popping rate, how will
the
 government be able to keep up?
  
  
 Much more on the blog:   www.HostMedic.com -- 


 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
  
  
  


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  
   
 
   

   
 

  
  


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  
   





   

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing
Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since
1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com








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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

well Put Bob.
_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Robert West wrote:

 I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isn’t about the
 show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get there.
 A show in Vegas has become a cliché.
 
 Bob-
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting 
 
 If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the place -
 IMHO 
 
 When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed pamphlets for
 prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
 Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the place I
 would like to take my family on vacation. 
 
 Disney sounds better ;-)
 
 Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
 Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer... 
 
 
 
 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
 
 On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:
 
 Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great 
 rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)
 
 Randy
 
 
 On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
 *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed up my
 families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
 conference.
 There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere close
 enough to drive to. Got to the hotel around 7pm to find out there was no
 available room for us. We called probably 100 different places and
 visited
 probably another 40+ places, pleading and begging for a room. We didn't
 even
 find any rooms at the ones that only rented per week.
 Me, my wife, one baby and one toddler.
 Finally about 2:30am we gave up and ended up sleeping in our rental
 minivan
 on the parking lot. In the middle of the night by accident set of the car
 alarm. Got kicked off the lot by the Casino security guards. Dumb ass
 suggested we drive downtown and take in on a hotel that charge by the
 hour.
 Yeah exactly the place I want to take 2 small children.. Parking the car
 on
 a street and sleeping in it was out of the question. We circled the block
 parked at a different location at the Casino parking area and went back
 to
 sleep.
 
 The memories.. Might have to do that again but without the kids ;)
 
 / Eje
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
 Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 10+ years ago I remember making a deal with a hotel to take a shower in a
 room that was being refurbished after driving through he night from NY.
 No
 available rooms for 50 miles.
 
 I should throw all my crap into a U-haul truck, drive it out there and
 abandon the thing!  LOL
 
 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Blake Bowersbbow...@mozarks.com
 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:36:47
 To:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 I have never had a problem finding rooms at Dayton, usually with my
 normal reservations taking place 2-3 days before the show.  Never.
 
 Now, the hamvention, like all the other hamfests, is no where near as
 packed
 
 as
 it was 10 years ago too.
 
 4 years ago I did not even have reservations and found rooms at the first
 place I stopped at, a Drury.
 
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Websterbwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
 
 
 
 Not a bad idea, Dayton would be problematic as it has limited lodging in
 the
 area and the hams already book that capacity up long before the
 convention.
 There are other large regional hamfests that might be a good fit for
 your
 idea however. The one problem that may arise from those is that the
 locations in many cases won't be in areas where the airports have a lot
 of
 competition so the WISP attendees would more than likely have to pay
 higher
 airfare.
 
 
 
 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 
 -Original

Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show