Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread garrettshankle 

 Based on that interpretation Dish and Dierct-tv would not be completely exempt 
as they use power over Coax for some of their technology. Hughesnet and Exeede 
would certainly be affected as well. That would completely destroy their cheap 
contractor business model.
 
 This is honestly hilarious. Don't expect this to go quietly.


-Original Message-
From: "Brett A Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 1:56pm
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs



So if this is correct, my installers have to be licensed electricians? Or is 
the consensus that we are exempt? If I have to hire licensed electricians for 
the installs it's going to be very expensive and I'll have to stop waiving 
install fees. Based on what I've seen though we are excluded.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

On May 12, 2017, at 11:44 AM, James Wilson <[ ja...@ridgecomms.com ]( 
mailto:ja...@ridgecomms.com )> wrote:



Maybe the device can be considered the POE injector? 


On May 12, 2017 1:42 PM, "Paul McNary" <[ c...@northmo.net ]( 
mailto:c...@northmo.net )> wrote:


So does that indicate that Dish and direct tv will also not be exempt in his 
interpretation?
Paul

On 5/12/2017 12:32 PM, Mitch wrote:
Just got off the phone with our local State Inspector
His take is if the device is outside and NOT getting power
from inside the property it is located at then it is exempt (such as
telco and CATV).
If the outdoor device gets power from inside the property
then it is NOT exempt.
This is how I read it
Mitch
 
 

On 05/12/2017 11:16 AM, [ garrettshan...@vabb.com ]( 
mailto:garrettshan...@vabb.com ) wrote:
Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low voltage, I  
certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to get all of our 
technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required by law for a full 
certification.


 -Original Message-
 From: "Matt Hoppes" [ <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> ]( 
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net )
 Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:10pm
 To: "WISPA General List" [ <wireless@wispa.org> ]( mailto:wireless@wispa.org )
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs



Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it. 

 On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch <[ mi...@abetterwireless.com ]( 
mailto:mi...@abetterwireless.com )> wrote:


Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
 for everything and anything that connects to a power source
 Am I reading wrong?



NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
 
90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical 
conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications conductors, 
equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways for the 
following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile homes, 
recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
(3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply of 
electricity
(4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings, 
warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are not an 
integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center
(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:
(1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings, railway 
rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles other than mobile homes and 
recreational vehicles
Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the Code 
does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are incorporated 
by reference into Title 46, Code of
Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
(2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface mining 
machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
(3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation, transmission, 
energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively for operation of 
rolling stock or installations used exclusively for signaling and 
communications purposes
(4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control of 
communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used 
exclusively for such installations
(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility where such 
installations
a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering, or
b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the purpose of 
communications, metering, generation, control, transformation, transmission, 
energy storage, or distribution of electric energy, or
c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or recogniz

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Tim Cailloux 
What's the differentiation for CATV?  Are they assuming it's analog?
There are very few 100% analog CATV systems left, and they're going
away.  So, even they'll have a Set-Top Box connected to coax and AC
power at the same time.  Then what's the distinction between that and
having the analog CATV connected to my TV instead of the STB?  What's
the line that distinguishes CATV from what we do?  If it's power sent up
the cable, then that impacts any satellite provider.
So, Dish/AT/Comcast/Cox/Charter are going to have all their installers
certified become electricians?
It's what the state inspector says, but...  If that's their
interpretation, I expect their lobbying to kick into full force to get
the rules changed.
tim
 
--
Tim Cailloux
t...@southern-internet.com
(404) 406-9911


On Fri, May 12, 2017, at 13:32, Mitch wrote:
> Just got off the phone with our local State Inspector


> His take is if the device is outside and NOT getting power


> from inside the property it is located at then it is exempt (such as> telco 
> and CATV).


> If the outdoor device gets power from inside the property


> then it is NOT exempt.


> This is how I read it


> Mitch


> 


> 


> 
> On 05/12/2017 11:16 AM, garrettshan...@vabb.com wrote:
>> 
>> Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low
>> voltage, I  certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to
>> get all of our technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required
>> by law for a full certification.>> 
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: "Matt Hoppes"
>> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017
>> 12:10pm To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re:
>> [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs>> Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. 
>> You even highlighted it. 
>>
>> On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch
>> <mi...@abetterwireless.com> wrote:>>> Looks like all installers will have to 
>> be licensed Electricians for
>>> everything and anything that connects to a power source Am I
>>> reading wrong?
>>>
>>>>>> NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
>>>  
>>> 90.2 Scope.
>>> (A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of
>>> electrical conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and
>>> communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical
>>> fiber cables and raceways for the following:>>> (1) Public and private 
>>> premises, including buildings, structures,
>>> mobile homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings>>> (2) 
>>> Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations>>> (3) 
>>> Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the
>>> supply of electricity>>> (4) Installations used by the electric 
>>> utility, such as office
>>> buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational
>>> buildings, that are not an integral part of a generating plant,
>>> substation, or control center>>> *(B) Not Covered. This Code does not 
>>> cover the following:*
>>> (1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating
>>> buildings, railway rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive
>>> vehicles other than mobile homes and recreational vehicles>>> 
>>> Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that
>>> the Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of this
>>> Code are incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of>>> Federal 
>>> Regulations, Parts 110–113.
>>> (2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile
>>> surface mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing
>>> cable>>> (3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation,
>>> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used
>>> exclusively for operation of rolling stock or installations used
>>> exclusively for signaling and communications purposes>>> *(4) 
>>> Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive
>>> control of communications utilities located outdoors or in building
>>> spaces used exclusively for such installations*>>> (5) Installations under 
>>> the exclusive control of an electric utility
>>> where such installations>>> a. Consist of service drops or service 
>>> laterals, and associated
>>>metering, or>>> b. Are on property owned or leased by the electri

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Brett A Mansfield 
So if this is correct, my installers have to be licensed electricians? Or is 
the consensus that we are exempt? If I have to hire licensed electricians for 
the installs it's going to be very expensive and I'll have to stop waiving 
install fees. Based on what I've seen though we are excluded.

Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield

> On May 12, 2017, at 11:44 AM, James Wilson <ja...@ridgecomms.com> wrote:
> 
> Maybe the device can be considered the POE injector? 
> 
>> On May 12, 2017 1:42 PM, "Paul McNary" <c...@northmo.net> wrote:
>> So does that indicate that Dish and direct tv will also not be exempt in his 
>> interpretation?
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> On 5/12/2017 12:32 PM, Mitch wrote:
>>> Just got off the phone with our local State Inspector
>>> 
>>> His take is if the device is outside and NOT getting power
>>> 
>>> from inside the property it is located at then it is exempt (such as
>>> 
>>> telco and CATV).
>>> 
>>> If the outdoor device gets power from inside the property
>>> 
>>> then it is NOT exempt.
>>> 
>>> This is how I read it
>>> 
>>> Mitch
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 05/12/2017 11:16 AM, garrettshan...@vabb.com wrote:
>>>> Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low voltage, I  
>>>> certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to get all of our 
>>>> technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required by law for a full 
>>>> certification.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:10pm
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs
>>>> 
>>>> Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it. 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch <mi...@abetterwireless.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Looks like all installers will have to be licensed 
>>>> Electricians
>>>> for everything and anything that connects to a power source
>>>> Am I reading wrong?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
>>>>  
>>>> 90.2 Scope.
>>>> (A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical 
>>>> conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications 
>>>> conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways 
>>>> for the following:
>>>> (1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile 
>>>> homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
>>>> (2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
>>>> (3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply 
>>>> of electricity
>>>> (4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings, 
>>>> warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are 
>>>> not an integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center
>>>> (B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:
>>>> (1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings, 
>>>> railway rolling stock, aircraft,   or automotive vehicles 
>>>> other than mobile homes and recreational vehicles
>>>> Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the 
>>>> Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are 
>>>> incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of
>>>> Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
>>>> (2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface 
>>>> mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
>>>> (3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation, 
>>>> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively 
>>>> for operation of rolling stock or installations used exclusively for 
>>>> signaling and communications purposes
>>>> (4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control 
>>>> of communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used 
>>>> exclusively for such installations
>>>> (5) Installations under the exclusive contro

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread James Wilson 
Maybe the device can be considered the POE injector?

On May 12, 2017 1:42 PM, "Paul McNary" <c...@northmo.net> wrote:

> So does that indicate that Dish and direct tv will also not be exempt in
> his interpretation?
>
> Paul
>
> On 5/12/2017 12:32 PM, Mitch wrote:
>
> Just got off the phone with our local State Inspector
>
> His take is if the device is outside and NOT getting power
>
> from inside the property it is located at then it is exempt (such as
>
> telco and CATV).
>
> If the outdoor device gets power from inside the property
>
> then it is NOT exempt.
>
> This is how I read it
>
> Mitch
>
>
>
>
> On 05/12/2017 11:16 AM, garrettshan...@vabb.com wrote:
>
> Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low voltage, I
>  certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to get all of our
> technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required by law for a full
> certification.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:10pm
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org>
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs
>
> Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it.
>
> On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch <mi...@abetterwireless.com> wrote:
>
> Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
> for everything and anything that connects to a power source
> Am I reading wrong?
>
>
> NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
>
> 90.2 Scope.
> (A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical
> conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications
> conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways
> for the following:
> (1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile
> homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
> (2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
> (3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply
> of electricity
> (4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings,
> warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are
> not an integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center
> *(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:*
> (1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings,
> railway rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles other than mobile
> homes and recreational vehicles
> Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the
> Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are
> incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of
> Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
> (2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface
> mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
> (3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation,
> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively for
> operation of rolling stock or installations used exclusively for signaling
> and communications purposes
> *(4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control
> of communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used
> exclusively for such installations*
> (5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility where
> such installations
> a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering,
> or
> b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the purpose
> of communications, metering, generation, control, transformation,
> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of electric energy, or
> c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
> d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or
> recognized by public service commissions, utility commissions, or other
> regulatory agencies having jurisdiction for such installations. These
> written agreements shall be limited to installations for the purpose of
> communications, metering, generation, control, transformation,
> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of electric energy where
> legally established easements or rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These
> installations shall be limited to federal lands, Native American
> reservations through the U.S. Department of the Interior Bureau of Indian
> Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by port authorities and state
> agencies and departments, and lands owned by railroads.
> *Informational

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Paul McNary 
So does that indicate that Dish and direct tv will also not be exempt in 
his interpretation?


Paul


On 5/12/2017 12:32 PM, Mitch wrote:


Just got off the phone with our local State Inspector

His take is if the device is outside and NOT getting power

from inside the property it is located at then it is exempt (such as

telco and CATV).

If the outdoor device gets power from inside the property

then it is NOT exempt.

This is how I read it

Mitch




On 05/12/2017 11:16 AM, garrettshan...@vabb.com wrote:


Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low 
voltage, I  certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to 
get all of our technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required 
by law for a full certification.




-Original Message-
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:10pm
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it.

On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch <mi...@abetterwireless.com 
<mailto:mi...@abetterwireless.com>> wrote:


Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
for everything and anything that connects to a power source
Am I reading wrong?


NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of
electrical conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and
communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical
fiber cables and raceways for the following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures,
mobile homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
(3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the
supply of electricity
(4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office
buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational
buildings, that are not an integral part of a generating plant,
substation, or control center
*(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:*
(1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating
buildings, railway rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive
vehicles other than mobile homes and recreational vehicles
Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates
that the Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of
this Code are incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of
Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
(2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile
surface mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
(3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation,
transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used
exclusively for operation of rolling stock or installations used
exclusively for signaling and communications purposes
*(4) Installations of communications equipment under the
exclusive control of communications utilities located outdoors or
in building spaces used exclusively for such installations*
(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric
utility where such installations
a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated
metering, or
b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for
the purpose of communications, metering, generation, control,
transformation, transmission, energy storage, or distribution of
electric energy, or
c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by
or recognized by public service commissions, utility commissions,
or other regulatory agencies having jurisdiction for such
installations. These written agreements shall be limited to
installations for the purpose of communications, metering,
generation, control, transformation, transmission, energy
storage, or distribution of electric energy where legally
established easements or rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These
installations shall be limited to federal lands, Native American
reservations through the U.S. Department of the Interior Bureau
of Indian Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by port
authorities and state agencies and departments, and lands owned
by railroads.
*Informational Note to (4) and (5): Examples of utilities may
include those entities that are typically designated or
recognized by governmental law or regulation by public
service/utility commissions and that install, operate, and
maintain electric supply (such as generation, transmission, or
distribution systems) or communications systems (such as
telephone, CATV,*
*Internet, satellite,

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Mitch 

Just got off the phone with our local State Inspector

His take is if the device is outside and NOT getting power

from inside the property it is located at then it is exempt (such as

telco and CATV).

If the outdoor device gets power from inside the property

then it is NOT exempt.

This is how I read it

Mitch




On 05/12/2017 11:16 AM, garrettshan...@vabb.com wrote:


Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low 
voltage, I  certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to 
get all of our technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required 
by law for a full certification.




-Original Message-
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:10pm
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it.

On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch <mi...@abetterwireless.com 
<mailto:mi...@abetterwireless.com>> wrote:


Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
for everything and anything that connects to a power source
Am I reading wrong?


NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of
electrical conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and
communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical
fiber cables and raceways for the following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures,
mobile homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
(3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the
supply of electricity
(4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office
buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational
buildings, that are not an integral part of a generating plant,
substation, or control center
*(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:*
(1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating
buildings, railway rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles
other than mobile homes and recreational vehicles
Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that
the Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of this
Code are incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of
Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
(2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile
surface mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
(3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation,
transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used
exclusively for operation of rolling stock or installations used
exclusively for signaling and communications purposes
*(4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive
control of communications utilities located outdoors or in
building spaces used exclusively for such installations*
(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric
utility where such installations
a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated
metering, or
b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the
purpose of communications, metering, generation, control,
transformation, transmission, energy storage, or distribution of
electric energy, or
c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or
recognized by public service commissions, utility commissions, or
other regulatory agencies having jurisdiction for such
installations. These written agreements shall be limited to
installations for the purpose of communications, metering,
generation, control, transformation, transmission, energy storage,
or distribution of electric energy where legally established
easements or rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These installations
shall be limited to federal lands, Native American reservations
through the U.S. Department of the Interior Bureau of Indian
Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by port authorities and
state agencies and departments, and lands owned by railroads.
*Informational Note to (4) and (5): Examples of utilities may
include those entities that are typically designated or recognized
by governmental law or regulation by public service/utility
commissions and that install, operate, and maintain electric
supply (such as generation, transmission, or distribution systems)
or communications systems (such as telephone, CATV,*
*Internet, satellite, or data services). Utilities may be subject
to compliance with codes and standards covering their regulated
activities as adopted under gov

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread garrettshankle 

Considering V.A. doesn't have a separate certification for low voltage, I  
certainly hope we're excluded. It would be difficult to get all of our 
technicians though a 3 year apprenticeship as required by law for a full 
certification.


-Original Message-
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 12:10pm
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs



Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it. 

On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch <[ mi...@abetterwireless.com ]( 
mailto:mi...@abetterwireless.com )> wrote:


Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
 for everything and anything that connects to a power source
 Am I reading wrong?



NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
 
90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical 
conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications conductors, 
equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways for the 
following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile homes, 
recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
(3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply of 
electricity
(4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings, 
warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are not an 
integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center
(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:
(1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings, railway 
rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles other than mobile homes and 
recreational vehicles
Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the Code 
does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are incorporated 
by reference into Title 46, Code of
Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
(2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface mining 
machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
(3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation, transmission, 
energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively for operation of 
rolling stock or installations used exclusively for signaling and 
communications purposes
(4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control of 
communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used 
exclusively for such installations
(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility where such 
installations
a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering, or
b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the purpose of 
communications, metering, generation, control, transformation, transmission, 
energy storage, or distribution of electric energy, or
c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or recognized 
by public service commissions, utility commissions, or other regulatory 
agencies having jurisdiction for such installations. These written agreements 
shall be limited to installations for the purpose of communications, metering, 
generation, control, transformation, transmission, energy storage, or 
distribution of electric energy where legally established easements or 
rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These installations shall be limited to 
federal lands, Native American reservations through the U.S. Department of the 
Interior Bureau of Indian Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by port 
authorities and state agencies and departments, and lands owned by railroads.
Informational Note to (4) and (5): Examples of utilities may include those 
entities that are typically designated or recognized by governmental law or 
regulation by public service/utility commissions and that install, operate, and 
maintain electric supply (such as generation, transmission, or distribution 
systems) or communications systems (such as telephone, CATV,
Internet, satellite, or data services). Utilities may be subject to compliance 
with codes and standards covering their regulated activities as adopted under 
governmental law or regulation.
Additional information can be found through consultation with the appropriate 
governmental bodies, such as state regulatory commissions, the Federal Energy 
Regulatory Commission, and the Federal Communications Commission.
(C) Special Permission. The authority having jurisdiction for enforcing this 
Code may grant exception for the installation of conductors and equipment that 
are not under the exclusive control of the electric utilities and are used to 
connect the electric utility supply system to the service conductors of the 
premises served, provided such installation

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Josh Luthman 
B not covered
4 installation of communications equipment

I'm reading it same as Matt...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it.
>
> On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch  wrote:
>
> Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
> for everything and anything that connects to a power source
> Am I reading wrong?
>
>
> NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
>
> 90.2 Scope.
> (A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical
> conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications
> conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways
> for the following:
> (1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile
> homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
> (2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
> (3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply
> of electricity
> (4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings,
> warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are
> not an integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center
> *(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:*
> (1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings,
> railway rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles other than mobile
> homes and recreational vehicles
> Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the
> Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are
> incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of
> Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
> (2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface
> mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
> (3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation,
> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively for
> operation of rolling stock or installations used exclusively for signaling
> and communications purposes
> *(4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control
> of communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used
> exclusively for such installations*
> (5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility where
> such installations
> a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering,
> or
> b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the purpose
> of communications, metering, generation, control, transformation,
> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of electric energy, or
> c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
> d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or
> recognized by public service commissions, utility commissions, or other
> regulatory agencies having jurisdiction for such installations. These
> written agreements shall be limited to installations for the purpose of
> communications, metering, generation, control, transformation,
> transmission, energy storage, or distribution of electric energy where
> legally established easements or rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These
> installations shall be limited to federal lands, Native American
> reservations through the U.S. Department of the Interior Bureau of Indian
> Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by port authorities and state
> agencies and departments, and lands owned by railroads.
> *Informational Note to (4) and (5): Examples of utilities may include
> those entities that are typically designated or recognized by governmental
> law or regulation by public service/utility commissions and that install,
> operate, and maintain electric supply (such as generation, transmission, or
> distribution systems) or communications systems (such as telephone, CATV,*
> *Internet, satellite, or data services). Utilities may be subject to
> compliance with codes and standards covering their regulated activities as
> adopted under governmental law or regulation.*
> Additional information can be found through consultation with the
> appropriate governmental bodies, such as state regulatory commissions, the
> Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and the Federal Communications
> Commission.
> (C) Special Permission. The authority having jurisdiction for enforcing
> this Code may grant exception for the installation of conductors and
> equipment that are not under the exclusive control of the electric
> utilities and are used to connect the electric utility supply system to the
> service conductors of the premises served, provided such installations are
> outside a building or structure, or terminate inside at a readily
> accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.

Re: [WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Matt Hoppes 
Ummm. We are exclusively  excluded. You even highlighted it. 

> On May 12, 2017, at 11:50 AM, Mitch  wrote:
> 
> Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
> for everything and anything that connects to a power source
> Am I reading wrong?
> 
> 
> NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
>  
> 90.2 Scope.
> (A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical 
> conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications conductors, 
> equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and raceways for the 
> following:
> (1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile 
> homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings
> (2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
> (3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply of 
> electricity
> (4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office buildings, 
> warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational buildings, that are not 
> an integral part of a generating plant, substation, or control center
> (B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:
> (1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings, railway 
> rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles other than mobile homes and 
> recreational vehicles
> Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the Code 
> does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are incorporated 
> by reference into Title 46, Code of
> Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
> (2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface 
> mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
> (3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation, transmission, 
> energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively for operation of 
> rolling stock or installations used exclusively for signaling and 
> communications purposes
> (4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive control of 
> communications utilities located outdoors or in building spaces used 
> exclusively for such installations
> (5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility where 
> such installations
> a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering, or
> b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the purpose of 
> communications, metering, generation, control, transformation, transmission, 
> energy storage, or distribution of electric energy, or
> c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
> d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or recognized 
> by public service commissions, utility commissions, or other regulatory 
> agencies having jurisdiction for such installations. These written agreements 
> shall be limited to installations for the purpose of communications, 
> metering, generation, control, transformation, transmission, energy storage, 
> or distribution of electric energy where legally established easements or 
> rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These installations shall be limited to 
> federal lands, Native American reservations through the U.S. Department of 
> the Interior Bureau of Indian Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by 
> port authorities and state agencies and departments, and lands owned by 
> railroads.
> Informational Note to (4) and (5): Examples of utilities may include those 
> entities that are typically designated or recognized by governmental law or 
> regulation by public service/utility commissions and that install, operate, 
> and maintain electric supply (such as generation, transmission, or 
> distribution systems) or communications systems (such as telephone, CATV,
> Internet, satellite, or data services). Utilities may be subject to 
> compliance with codes and standards covering their regulated activities as 
> adopted under governmental law or regulation.
> Additional information can be found through consultation with the appropriate 
> governmental bodies, such as state regulatory commissions, the Federal Energy 
> Regulatory Commission, and the Federal Communications Commission.
> (C) Special Permission. The authority having jurisdiction for enforcing this 
> Code may grant exception for the installation of conductors and equipment 
> that are not under the exclusive control of the electric utilities and are 
> used to connect the electric utility supply system to the service conductors 
> of the premises served, provided such installations are outside a building or 
>   structure, or terminate inside at a readily accessible location nearest 
> the point of entrance of the service conductors.
> 
> -- 
> Mitch Koep
> 
> A Better Wireless
> 218-851-8689 cell
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

[WISPA] New NEC rule it may hurt WISPs

2017-05-12 Thread Mitch 

Looks like all installers will have to be licensed Electricians
for everything and anything that connects to a power source
Am I reading wrong?


NFPA 70: DOCUMENT SCOPE
90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation and removal of electrical 
conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and communications 
conductors, equipment, and raceways; and optical fiber cables and 
raceways for the following:
(1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures, mobile 
homes, recreational vehicles, and floating buildings

(2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
(3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect to the supply 
of electricity
(4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office 
buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and recreational 
buildings, that are not an integral part of a generating plant, 
substation, or control center

*(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:*
(1) Installations in ships, watercraft other than floating buildings, 
railway rolling stock, aircraft, or automotive vehicles other than 
mobile homes and recreational vehicles
Informational Note: Although the scope of this Code indicates that the 
Code does not cover installations in ships, portions of this Code are 
incorporated by reference into Title 46, Code of

Federal Regulations, Parts 110–113.
(2) Installations underground in mines and self-propelled mobile surface 
mining machinery and its attendant electrical trailing cable
(3) Installations of railways for generation, transformation, 
transmission, energy storage, or distribution of power used exclusively 
for operation of rolling stock or installations used exclusively for 
signaling and communications purposes
*(4) Installations of communications equipment under the exclusive 
control of communications utilities located outdoors or in building 
spaces used exclusively for such installations*
(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility 
where such installations

a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering, or
b. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the 
purpose of communications, metering, generation, control, 
transformation, transmission, energy storage, or distribution of 
electric energy, or

c. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way, or
d. Are located by other written agreements either designated by or 
recognized by public service commissions, utility commissions, or other 
regulatory agencies having jurisdiction for such installations. These 
written agreements shall be limited to installations for the purpose of 
communications, metering, generation, control, transformation, 
transmission, energy storage, or distribution of electric energy where 
legally established easements or rights-of-way cannot be obtained. These 
installations shall be limited to federal lands, Native American 
reservations through the U.S. Department of the Interior Bureau of 
Indian Affairs, military bases, lands controlled by port authorities and 
state agencies and departments, and lands owned by railroads.
*Informational Note to (4) and (5): Examples of utilities may include 
those entities that are typically designated or recognized by 
governmental law or regulation by public service/utility commissions and 
that install, operate, and maintain electric supply (such as generation, 
transmission, or distribution systems) or communications systems (such 
as telephone, CATV,*
*_Internet, satellite, or data services_). Utilities may be subject to 
compliance with codes and standards covering their regulated activities 
as adopted under governmental law or regulation.*
Additional information can be found through consultation with the 
appropriate governmental bodies, such as state regulatory commissions, 
the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and the Federal Communications 
Commission.
(C) Special Permission. The authority having jurisdiction for enforcing 
this Code may grant exception for the installation of conductors and 
equipment that are not under the exclusive control of the electric 
utilities and are used to connect the electric utility supply system to 
the service conductors of the premises served, provided such 
installations are outside a building or structure, or terminate inside 
at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the 
service conductors.


--
Mitch Koep

A Better Wireless
218-851-8689 cell

___
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless