Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
subscriber count, for the public to see. And we'll make them take us to court before we'll provide it. I'd like to give an example, of DB and Getting Leases. One thing we learned is that Giving DB info hurts you if you give them info that proves you dont meet the qualification of lenders. For example, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
From: "Scott Reed"scottr...@onlyinternet.net To: "WISPA General List"wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
to expansion. But it will never help us to disclose the volume of our subscriber count, for the public to see. And we'll make them take us to court before we'll provide it. I'd like to give an example, of DB and Getting Leases. One thing we learned is that Giving DB info hurts you if you give them info that proves you dont meet the qualification of lenders. For example, If a lendor wants to see that you have over 10 employees, you would not want to tell DB to list that you have only 5. Its better to not tell DB anything, and leave the value at ZERO, so there is no proof that you dont qualify. And as well, by providing no information, one would not have to lie to try to prove compliance. The same thing applies to other fields, such as annual revenue. Less is more, unless the data is possitive info. My point here is that what you dont tell people, they dont know, and what they dont know they cant hold against you. You only disclose the info that helps you. The same principle applies to marketing one's company. If a provider is a 2 man company, would a fortunte 100 company select that provider as their provider? Probably not. But the Fortune 100 company does not know that the provider is a 2 person company, if no body tells them, and the provider's reputation is good. The day a provider has a few 100,000 subs, it will help to disclose subs. But not when its a few 1000. WISPs need to continue to promote it's COVERAGE!!! We are STRONG when it comes to Coverage, But I jsut dont get promoting subscribers, because we are NOT strong in subscriber count proporationally to our competitors. But I highly recommend that WISPs continue to show our coverage, at a broader range, what ever range a WISP feels is not a risk to disclose. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Scott Reedscottr...@onlyinternet.net To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information Thats the funny part. They have an NDA!. What good is the NDA, if you are agreeing to give them information that is intended and will be released to the public on a public web site? What else is there to keep confidential? Maybe only the agregate lists to make it quicker to import into a dta base. Its funny, I asked, what is going to be released to the public? They could not tell me that for sure as the system was still in development and design. So its not even possible to enter into an agreement clearly stating what we'd be agreeing to, because the agreement is not defined. Basically the way it is now is... They say... Provide us everything now, and we'll let you know. In my state there was no pre-planning process or open discussion on the requirements. What happened was that mapping providers got grants, and mapping providers started working. There was no stipulation in the grant program to require winner to accommodate ISP's interests or stakeholder's interests. There job was to create the most accurate and detailed map that they could. NEver a single discussion on how it would be best to display WISP type data. Its a Joke. I personally think we should all not cooperate simply to send the message that we will not get bullied into just compliance, without even being given the opportunity to be part of the planning process. They have no authority to just demand info from us. If they want to map the state, I'll be glad to go to a public work group and discuss it and come up with ideas. But this one sided, this is the way it going to work attitude is not going to fly. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Matt and anyone else who talks to the state level mapping organizations: The next time you talk to these people you might ask them to provide you with the names, resumes, and qualifications of the staff that would be running your coverage maps if you were to provide all of the tower data they are requesting. Also ask for a list of similar projects these people have worked on in the recent past to justify their skill in creating an accurate coverage map. IF they actually produce that data (and I doubt they will) I would ask them how it is they feel these people are qualified to conduct this level of work. From what I have seen at various state levels, they do not have anyone with RF Engineering experience on staff, let alone anyone with experience in the unlicensed bands so that they can produce maps that show reality of what works vice equipment manufacturer specs. Connected Nation is putting someone in charge of mapping WISP's using Radio Mobile. While that is not a bad thing (you all know I think Radio Mobile works great) these people don't seem to have much if any RF Engineering Experience. If they do it seems to be in the cellular world and I can tell you from experience, that those types can be all over the place with their ability. There are experts who think they know what they are doing because they can run some software, and then there are the ones who know the RF theory in the first place and can really understand what the tool is showing when they run a map, especially as it relates to knowing what to use for settings within the program. Too many people just play with the settings until it looks right. What I am seeing in this mapping grant process is a bunch of GIS/Mapping Companies that now think they are also RF Engineering Companies, many times because they hire someone who can make a map in Radio Mobile and they think that is good enough. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I believe the folks doing the mapping (at least a significant part of it) for Connected Nation are Chip Spann, Layne Wagner and John Determan. All three of these men have significant RF and WISP background. Not sure if they are actually engineers' but probablly 30-40 years combined wireless (licensed and unlicensed) between them. I'm not sure who is doing the mapping in your state, but I believe these three are overseeing the mapping for all of Connected Nations's contracts. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: Matt and anyone else who talks to the state level mapping organizations: The next time you talk to these people you might ask them to provide you with the names, resumes, and qualifications of the staff that would be running your coverage maps if you were to provide all of the tower data they are requesting. Also ask for a list of similar projects these people have worked on in the recent past to justify their skill in creating an accurate coverage map. IF they actually produce that data (and I doubt they will) I would ask them how it is they feel these people are qualified to conduct this level of work. From what I have seen at various state levels, they do not have anyone with RF Engineering experience on staff, let alone anyone with experience in the unlicensed bands so that they can produce maps that show reality of what works vice equipment manufacturer specs. Connected Nation is putting someone in charge of mapping WISP's using Radio Mobile. While that is not a bad thing (you all know I think Radio Mobile works great) these people don't seem to have much if any RF Engineering Experience. If they do it seems to be in the cellular world and I can tell you from experience, that those types can be all over the place with their ability. There are experts who think they know what they are doing because they can run some software, and then there are the ones who know the RF theory in the first place and can really understand what the tool is showing when they run a map, especially as it relates to knowing what to use for settings within the program. Too many people just play with the settings until it looks right. What I am seeing in this mapping grant process is a bunch of GIS/Mapping Companies that now think they are also RF Engineering Companies, many times because they hire someone who can make a map in Radio Mobile and they think that is good enough. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Well that is a little more comforting. They don't need to be Engineers because there is no formal degree for wireless engineers in the US. Electrical Engineers only get about two weeks antenna theory when it comes to wireless. If these three are really on staff, they are not doing a very good job of oversight for the staff running the maps. I have seen results in both Illinois and Michigan and can tell you their predictions are way off. Thank You, Brian Webster From: David Hannum [mailto:oujas...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 3:23 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I believe the folks doing the mapping (at least a significant part of it) for Connected Nation are Chip Spann, Layne Wagner and John Determan. All three of these men have significant RF and WISP background. Not sure if they are actually engineers' but probablly 30-40 years combined wireless (licensed and unlicensed) between them. I'm not sure who is doing the mapping in your state, but I believe these three are overseeing the mapping for all of Connected Nations's contracts. Kind Regards, David Hannum New Era Broadband, LLC On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com wrote: Matt and anyone else who talks to the state level mapping organizations: The next time you talk to these people you might ask them to provide you with the names, resumes, and qualifications of the staff that would be running your coverage maps if you were to provide all of the tower data they are requesting. Also ask for a list of similar projects these people have worked on in the recent past to justify their skill in creating an accurate coverage map. IF they actually produce that data (and I doubt they will) I would ask them how it is they feel these people are qualified to conduct this level of work. From what I have seen at various state levels, they do not have anyone with RF Engineering experience on staff, let alone anyone with experience in the unlicensed bands so that they can produce maps that show reality of what works vice equipment manufacturer specs. Connected Nation is putting someone in charge of mapping WISP's using Radio Mobile. While that is not a bad thing (you all know I think Radio Mobile works great) these people don't seem to have much if any RF Engineering Experience. If they do it seems to be in the cellular world and I can tell you from experience, that those types can be all over the place with their ability. There are experts who think they know what they are doing because they can run some software, and then there are the ones who know the RF theory in the first place and can really understand what the tool is showing when they run a map, especially as it relates to knowing what to use for settings within the program. Too many people just play with the settings until it looks right. What I am seeing in this mapping grant process is a bunch of GIS/Mapping Companies that now think they are also RF Engineering Companies, many times because they hire someone who can make a map in Radio Mobile and they think that is good enough. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I thought I'd add Why should we assume that the State's objectives will always be to get accurate coverage maps? Sure States with higher percentage of unserved areas would benefit from accurately showing userved areas. But what about the other more served states? Wouldn't they benefit by showing that their own states are more unserved than the realy are? Showing that a WISP covers an unserved area just means that that state might not qualify for Federal money to get fiber to those locations. Can we ever really rely on any mapping project to represent the WISP's interests, when the goal of the MApping is to develop a basis for possible future federal assistance to build fiber networks? Isn't most state's real mission to determine where there is and isn't fiber, to encourage the expansion of Fiber? What motive does the State appointed mappers have to cooperate and accommodate WISP's request for mapping? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: BTOP Mapping grants given to States are Federal initiatives. The states have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress. Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything about whether you give them information or not. But the Feds potentially could. Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide Form 477 data, down to Census track. It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand confidential information or not from provate companies. When a WISP does not provide info, whether the Feds or States make a stink about it, may depend on the impact of the data that would be missing, and their real
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
NOFA for this grant can be found here: http://broadbandusa.gov/info_lib.htm This covers the data they are looking for. Chris Cooper Intelliwave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I agree. Can someone point to where the NTIA has published the requirements? Jack Unger wrote: It would be good to see some type of documentation that the data contractors and the PSC are telling the truth about the NTIA mandating that they collect such detailed data. Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information.The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: BTOP Mapping grants given to States are Federal initiatives. The states have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress. Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything about whether you give them information or not. But the Feds potentially could. Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide Form 477 data, down to Census track. It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand confidential information or not from provate companies. When a WISP does not provide info, whether the Feds or States make a stink about it, may depend on the impact of the data that would be missing, and their real legal opinion which I'm sure they would not truly disclose outside of court. In MD, we were just contacted, and the mapping initiative is really a racket for free money. MD had already started a very substanial mapping effort at the State Level. But that is considered different. So with teh BTOP mapping grant they got, they cant or choose not to use the pre-existing MApping platform, and basically are starting a seperate project to comply to the federal initatives. Basically
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
They can pry the info from my cold, dead, brain! On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information Thats the funny part. They have an NDA!. What good is the NDA, if you are agreeing to give them information that is intended and will be released to the public on a public web site? What else is there to keep confidential? Maybe only the agregate lists to make it quicker to import into a dta base. Its funny, I asked, what is going to be released to the public? They could not tell me that for sure as the system was still in development and design. So its not even possible to enter into an agreement clearly stating what we'd be agreeing to, because the agreement is not defined. Basically the way it is now is... They say... Provide us everything now, and we'll let you know. In my state there was no pre-planning process or open discussion on the requirements. What happened was that mapping providers got grants, and mapping providers started working. There was no stipulation in the grant program to require winner to accommodate ISP's interests or stakeholder's interests. There job was to create the most accurate and detailed map that they could. NEver a single discussion on how it would be best to display WISP type data. Its a Joke. I personally think we should all not cooperate simply to send the message that we will not get bullied into just compliance, without even being given the opportunity to be part of the planning process. They have no authority to just demand info from us. If they want to map the state, I'll be glad to go to a public work group and discuss it and come up with ideas. But this one sided, this is the way it going to work attitude is not going to fly. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information. The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Tom, As always you ask great questions. I'd love to see the answer! On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: I thought I'd add Why should we assume that the State's objectives will always be to get accurate coverage maps? Sure States with higher percentage of unserved areas would benefit from accurately showing userved areas. But what about the other more served states? Wouldn't they benefit by showing that their own states are more unserved than the realy are? Showing that a WISP covers an unserved area just means that that state might not qualify for Federal money to get fiber to those locations. Can we ever really rely on any mapping project to represent the WISP's interests, when the goal of the MApping is to develop a basis for possible future federal assistance to build fiber networks? Isn't most state's real mission to determine where there is and isn't fiber, to encourage the expansion of Fiber? What motive does the State appointed mappers have to cooperate and accommodate WISP's request for mapping? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I was on a conference call with the State of Nebraska broadband mapping contractors and the Public Service Commission this morning and came away with a bad feeling. Based on the Form477 data, and the PSC's broadband provider registration information, there are 283 broadband providers in the state of Nebraska. But they only have complete information for about 25, and signed NDAs from only 160. I offered to them that they would have better luck getting data if they weren't asking for so much information. The data template that they ask for includes: 1) All subscriber addresses, and the type of broadband deployed at that location 2) GPS coordinates for all of our tower locations, the types of antennas provided and the frequencies in use at that location 3) Key anchor institutions that are receiving service from our system I have had a couple of phone calls and several emails back and forth with the mapping subcontractors, and they (and the PSC) are still adamant about the data collection requirements. I thought that we had negotiated to the point that they would accept a shape file and a summary of the number of subscribers per census block, but the phone call this morning confirmed that incomplete data submissions (ones that do not include the tower verification information and subscriber information in the format that they requested) will not be included in the summary data, or the state broadband availability map that will be released to the public. The contractors and the attorney for the PSC gave the indication that the NTIA is mandating this level of data collection, and that their NDA should be enough protection to ensure the safety of our proprietary information. My position, and the position of the majority of WISP operators that I have visited with, is that I am not going to turn over the information that they are asking for. Full disclosure of all my tower sites and the addresses of my customers is an onerous request and fundamentally unnecessary to determine where broadband coverage exists within the state. I would prefer to run the risk of being overbuilt by a government funded program in the future than to turn over information to entities (NTIA in particular) that could be legally obligated to turn over that information through a FOIA request. I don't know whether it is too late to push back at the NTIA to reduce the data that they are requesting. I can sympathise to a certain degree with the PSC and the contractors, as they are just trying to collect the data that NTIA has mandated them to collect. But they are simply asking for too much information. In the end, it will be another inaccurate representation of broadband coverage and that information will be used to develop policy and programs that will make the competitive environment for WISPs and other independent ISPs even more difficult to succeed in. That sucks. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com On 4/12/2010 10:29 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: BTOP Mapping grants given to States are Federal initiatives. The states have to answer and report to the Feds on their progress. Basically they will report to the Feds, who they contacted, and who provided info and who didn't. The State mappers have little authority to do anything about whether you give them information or not. But the Feds potentially could. Remember it is FCC policy/law to provide Form 477 data, down to Census track. It may come down to a legal issue on whether the FCC has authority to demand confidential information or not from provate companies. When
[WISPA] connected nation mapping data
Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
There as been some comment on this on the list. They just contacted us as well. My plan is to tell them to look at our website to get the coverage area. The rest is company confidential information. I do remember some folks in IL refusing to give them anything. I have not seen anything that says we have to give them data. They make it sound like it is a requirement, but I don't think that is the case. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x2241 1-260-827-2241 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I only sent them GPS coordinates with tower height and frequency. Their spreadsheet was pretty massive so I told them that if it's for mapping purposes then what I gave them was enough for mapping purposes. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
They are asking for detailed data for two reasons. One is to inform a potential consumer where you offer service with what speed and price. All of the other data is so they can run RF propagations for your whole network to develop your service area. Problem with that is from what I have seen of their work, they don't know how to do a proper RF prediction. They are using Radio Mobile but they obviously don't know how to set it up or run propagations that reflect reality in the WISP world. That being said, some WISP's have been submitting proper GIS files to show their coverage area and then giving the data for speeds and pricing. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Radio Mobile plots will not work by themselves. Those are image files and for the mapping each state needs to convert that information to some sort of GIS Vector based polygon. Some RF tools will do this directly otherwise you have to do a bunch of tedious conversion in other mapping tools. This process is pretty much the same in every state. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I offered to send them google earth overlays we use that come pretty close to reality but they said they couldn't use them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:04 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data They are asking for detailed data for two reasons. One is to inform a potential consumer where you offer service with what speed and price. All of the other data is so they can run RF propagations for your whole network to develop your service area. Problem with that is from what I have seen of their work, they don't know how to do a proper RF prediction. They are using Radio Mobile but they obviously don't know how to set it up or run propagations that reflect reality in the WISP world. That being said, some WISP's have been submitting proper GIS files to show their coverage area and then giving the data for speeds and pricing. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Radio Mobile plots will not work by themselves. Those are image files and for the mapping each state needs to convert that information to some sort of GIS Vector based polygon. Some RF tools will do this directly otherwise you have to do a bunch of tedious conversion in other mapping tools. This process is pretty much the same in every state. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
You can send those to me and I will convert them so long as they are vector polygons and not the Google Earth image overlays you can create from Radio Mobile. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Robert West [mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com] Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:22 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data I offered to send them google earth overlays we use that come pretty close to reality but they said they couldn't use them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:04 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data They are asking for detailed data for two reasons. One is to inform a potential consumer where you offer service with what speed and price. All of the other data is so they can run RF propagations for your whole network to develop your service area. Problem with that is from what I have seen of their work, they don't know how to do a proper RF prediction. They are using Radio Mobile but they obviously don't know how to set it up or run propagations that reflect reality in the WISP world. That being said, some WISP's have been submitting proper GIS files to show their coverage area and then giving the data for speeds and pricing. There are a few ways to accomplish this. Radio Mobile plots will not work by themselves. Those are image files and for the mapping each state needs to convert that information to some sort of GIS Vector based polygon. Some RF tools will do this directly otherwise you have to do a bunch of tedious conversion in other mapping tools. This process is pretty much the same in every state. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:26 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] connected nation mapping data
I submitted my data to them for showing my network on their map. The coverage map looked reasonably close to what we cover. I see no down side to allowing them to show that your area has broadband. I can see abig downside if this map is used for policy making and funding of where to build and you are NOT listed there. To each his own but I would rather have WISPs plastering their map myself. It would help our industry efforts I think. Scriv On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Does anyone here have any experience with Connected Nation / Connect Ohio on them wanting data from you for their mapping purposes? They are requesting I sign a non-disclosure agreement and then hand them over a list of all my towers, coordinates, frequency's, antenna, cable loss, equipment manufacturer, service plan speeds. Seems like they want a lot of personal information. I am just wondering besides mapping purposes what the secondary uses of this collected data will be used for. Feel free to email me off-list as well. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
