Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Thats 40% subscription rate, based on total households located in the area. Area defined by applicant, not by protestor's covered area. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "RickG" To: ; "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis > Broadband wrote: >> They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due >> diligence" phase. >> Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% >> take rate. >> >> >> Victoria Proffer >> www.StLouisBroadband.com >> 314-974-5600 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of RickG >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and >> WOW. >> >> And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett >> wrote: >>> If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not >>> protesting >>> their application. >>> >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" >>> Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >>> >>>> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH >> featuring >>>> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went >>>> with >>>> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" >> to >>>> be had. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that >> take >>>> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's >> that >>>> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a >> walk >>>> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 >>>> things >>>> that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't >> list >>>> it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and >>>> how >>>> much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire >>>> existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they >>>> want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly >> tell >>>> you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. >>>> They >>>> can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not >>>> block. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year >>>> that >>>> once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted >>>> to >>>> do >>>> with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The >>>> majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started >>>> talking >>>> among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this >>>> money >>>> at >>>> all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I >>>> asked >>>> them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and >>>> if >>>> they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and >>>> undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if >>>> that >>>> could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just >>>> kil
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
But its worse than that... At first, one might think that the protestor would only have to prove that they had 40% coverage within their Census block they were protesting. BUT that is NOT true. Small providers will ahve little chance of winning a protest because. the 40% take rate is based on teh area, not the census block. An area is a set of contiguous census blocks. So if a WISP supprots 1 census block, and a big dog applies for a grant that covers 10 census blocks, if the other 9 census blocks are less than 40% covered, even if your census block is 100% covered, your census blocks get averaged into all the others , to state that the proposed full area is still underserved. Maybe NTIA might be nice and say, can you move that 1 small census block out of your plan. But they don't have to. What I'm getting at is... protests will not be easy, because you'll hqve to protest the complete area that the applicant is calling an area. That is really bad for small providers trying to protect their turf. The rules clearly reward the applicants who can serve the most underserved and unserved people regardless of who gets trampled along the way. Its doesn't mean officials will make those decissions as final outcomes, but the rules allow them to, if they want. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "St. Louis Broadband" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due > diligence" phase. > Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% > take rate. > > > Victoria Proffer > www.StLouisBroadband.com > 314-974-5600 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? > -RickG > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote: >> If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting >> their application. >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------- >> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >> >>> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH > featuring >>> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went >>> with >>> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" > to >>> be had. >>> >>> >>> >>> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that > take >>> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's > that >>> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a > walk >>> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 >>> things >>> that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't > list >>> it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and >>> how >>> much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire >>> existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. >>> >>> >>> >>> They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they >>> want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly > tell >>> you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. >>> They >>> can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. >>> >>> >>> >>> This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year >>> that >>> once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted >>> to >>> do >>> with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The >>> majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started >>> talking >>> among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money >>> at >>&
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Title: Thank You,
That point was actually clarified on the FAQ list
posted.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
St. Louis Broadband wrote:
Thank You,
Humm,
not what I am reading into it.
Lol,
maybe I have read it too many times… ;-)
Victoria
Proffer
www.StLouisBroadband.com
314-974-5600
From:
Brian Webster
[mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: li...@stlbroadband.com
Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar
and
WOW.
It's
really 40% of the homes passed by the applicants designated service
area. Same
rules apply for the percentage of households who have access to
broadband. The
percentage is calculated over the area designated by the applicant as
their
complete project area. The only real chance you have to challenge is on
the
applications that come in as unserved, but even then the RUS and NTIA
have said
they will reserve the right to then convert that application to an
underserved
one.
Thank
You,
Brian Webster
RickG wrote:
Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS?
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis
Broadband wrote:
They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due
diligence" phase.
Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40%
take rate.
Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadband.com
314-974-5600
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.
And on that note, where can you find a list of applications?
-RickG
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett
wrote:
If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting
their application.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: "Kurt Fankhauser"
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'"
Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.
Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH
featuring
Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went
with
an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money"
to
be had.
The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that
take
this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's
that
take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a
walk
in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50
things
that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't
list
it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how
much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire
existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money.
They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they
want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly
tell
you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair.
They
can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block.
This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that
once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to
do
with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The
majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started
talking
among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money
at
all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it.
They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked
them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wir
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Humm, not what I am reading into it. Lol, maybe I have read it too many times. ;-) Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 From: Brian Webster [mailto:bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:41 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: li...@stlbroadband.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. It's really 40% of the homes passed by the applicants designated service area. Same rules apply for the percentage of households who have access to broadband. The percentage is calculated over the area designated by the applicant as their complete project area. The only real chance you have to challenge is on the applications that come in as unserved, but even then the RUS and NTIA have said they will reserve the right to then convert that application to an underserved one. Thank You, Brian Webster RickG wrote: Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis Broadband <mailto:li...@stlbroadband.com> wrote: They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due diligence" phase. Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% take rate. Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett <mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net> wrote: If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting their application. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <mailto:k...@wavelinc.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Take rate. Your LOS is irrelevant to this particular criteria. Chuck On Jul 29, 2009, at 12:46 AM, RickG wrote: > Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis > Broadband wrote: >> They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due >> diligence" phase. >> Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have >> a 40% >> take rate. >> >> >> Victoria Proffer >> www.StLouisBroadband.com >> 314-974-5600 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of RickG >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and >> WOW. >> >> And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? >> -RickG >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett> > >> wrote: >>> If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not >>> protesting >>> their application. >>> >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" >>> Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and >>> WOW. >>> >>>> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH >> featuring >>>> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I >>>> went >>>> with >>>> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free >>>> money" >> to >>>> be had. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's >>>> that >> take >>>> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for >>>> ISP's >> that >>>> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look >>>> like a >> walk >>>> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about >>>> 30-50 >>>> things >>>> that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I >>>> can't >> list >>>> it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper >>>> and how >>>> much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your >>>> entire >>>> existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the >>>> money. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They can come in and look at all your confidential records >>>> anytime they >>>> want. They can even change the rules years down the road and >>>> possibly >> tell >>>> you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is >>>> fair. >>>> They >>>> can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not >>>> block. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last >>>> year that >>>> once they took the money and found out what role the government >>>> wanted to >>>> do >>>> with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't >>>> allowed. The >>>> majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and >>>> started >>>> talking >>>> among each other was that they don't want anything to do with >>>> this money >>>> at >>>> all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to >>>> it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. >>>> I asked >>>> them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless >>>> ISP's and if >>>> they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the >>>> area and >>>> undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of >>>> business if >
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Title: Thank You, It's really 40% of the homes passed by the applicants designated service area. Same rules apply for the percentage of households who have access to broadband. The percentage is calculated over the area designated by the applicant as their complete project area. The only real chance you have to challenge is on the applications that come in as unserved, but even then the RUS and NTIA have said they will reserve the right to then convert that application to an underserved one. Thank You, Brian Webster RickG wrote: Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due diligence" phase. Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% take rate. Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting their application. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kurt Fankhauser" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless Lis
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Is that 40% of homes passed or 40% of LOS? On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:40 AM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: > They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due > diligence" phase. > Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% > take rate. > > > Victoria Proffer > www.StLouisBroadband.com > 314-974-5600 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? > -RickG > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett > wrote: >> If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting >> their application. >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> ---------- >> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM >> To: "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >> >>> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH > featuring >>> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went >>> with >>> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" > to >>> be had. >>> >>> >>> >>> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that > take >>> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's > that >>> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a > walk >>> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 >>> things >>> that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't > list >>> it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how >>> much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire >>> existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. >>> >>> >>> >>> They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they >>> want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly > tell >>> you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. >>> They >>> can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. >>> >>> >>> >>> This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that >>> once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to >>> do >>> with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The >>> majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started >>> talking >>> among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money >>> at >>> all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked >>> them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if >>> they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and >>> undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if >>> that >>> could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed >>> 3 >>> small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just >>> accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. >>> >>> >>> >>> This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved >>> area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as >>> much >>> control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the >>> stimulus money." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Kurt Fankhauser >>> WAVELINC >>> P.O. Box 126 >>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>> 419-562-6405 >>> www.wavelinc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >&
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
They will be posted, for 30 days, on the NTIA site during their "due diligence" phase. Any ISP that contests will have to provide the proof that they have a 40% take rate. Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting > their application. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Kurt Fankhauser" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > >> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring >> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went >> with >> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to >> be had. >> >> >> >> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take >> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that >> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk >> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 >> things >> that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list >> it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how >> much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire >> existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. >> >> >> >> They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they >> want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell >> you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. >> They >> can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. >> >> >> >> This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that >> once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to >> do >> with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The >> majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started >> talking >> among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money >> at >> all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. >> >> >> >> They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked >> them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if >> they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and >> undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if >> that >> could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed >> 3 >> small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just >> accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. >> >> >> >> This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved >> area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as >> much >> control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. >> >> >> >> I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the >> stimulus money." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kurt Fankhauser >> WAVELINC >> P.O. Box 126 >> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >> 419-562-6405 >> www.wavelinc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
And on that note, where can you find a list of applications? -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting > their application. > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -- > From: "Kurt Fankhauser" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > >> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring >> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went >> with >> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to >> be had. >> >> >> >> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take >> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that >> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk >> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 >> things >> that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list >> it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how >> much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire >> existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. >> >> >> >> They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they >> want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell >> you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. >> They >> can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. >> >> >> >> This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that >> once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to >> do >> with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The >> majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started >> talking >> among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money >> at >> all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. >> >> >> >> They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked >> them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if >> they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and >> undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if >> that >> could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed >> 3 >> small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just >> accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. >> >> >> >> This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved >> area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as >> much >> control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. >> >> >> >> I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the >> stimulus money." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Kurt Fankhauser >> WAVELINC >> P.O. Box 126 >> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >> 419-562-6405 >> www.wavelinc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
I knew that. I encourage ALL my competitors to take the Govt money - become the BIG dog and go for it! > > The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take > this money as they possibly can. > > This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that > once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do > with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The > majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking > among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at > all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. > > This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved > area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much > control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
>With that in >mind, WISP need to think of ways that they can tap the government money >without losing their local focus. WISPs might seriously want to consider >forming cooperatives in which a group of WISPs within a geographic region >enter into a joint venture to expand overall capacity. Then that joint >venture can apply for stimulus money. Already exists: http://www.winog.org Although one might say that I'm currently "in-charge" as Executive Director -- keep in mind, this was done because (1) someone had to step up to the plate and get the idea going (2) the person stepping up to the plate also had to put behind it to make it a reality That being said, this has been organized as a 501c(6) organization with the intention of "turning things over to membership" if we can get legs under it -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
>They seem to be actively pursuing it. They provide a lot of hotspots at >places like starbucks and allow DSL users to connect for free. SBC has >been doing it for some time, and now Verizon is as well. Yeah, but it doesn't mean they'll realize its profitable to continue to doing it. OK, Let me give you an example of today Customer A calls in a support ticket for poor performance. (all business subs, with SLAs) PTMP CustomerA and C show intererence. To resolve had to install a PTP to Customer B (located 10 miles away.), so I was then able to change channels and repoint successfully, without harming Custoemr B that had different client side channel noise issues. As well, had to change channels around on 3 sectors until I got the Customer A to beable to survive the noise. I was able to do the channels changes because I had intiment knowledge of exactly where each customer was on each of the three sectors and would know whether I would interefere with all the sectors on my adjacenet two cell sites also. I of course had to make the various calls and emails to many of the clients to let them know and coordinate the down time, each time I did troubleshooting. I then realized I had a bug that caused a some CPEs not to switch the the right channel, causing them to stay down. Because of my experienmce, I know its firmware issue, and download and apply the firmware on the needed CPEs. I first have to get the down Radio CPEs back up, and am able to do so because I remember the scan tables, and know they probably are still sitting on the other channels in teh scan table. Eventually after about a day, I got working customers, customer C is working strong, but customer A is still not working idealy. Is it interference or bad radios? Only way to tell is more equpipment swaps. Drive out to Cusstomer B site, swap radio, and seems to resolve. In this process, about 30 customers were touched, all though there was really only one support ticket for Customer A being resolved. My point being, a Outsourced support company in India wouldn;t have been able to handle this situation, and it surely would not have been cost effective for someone to troubleshoot and make this repair who was not intimately invovled with the local environment. I just don't see this type of thing scaling for large telcos. Atleast not for SLA level broadband services. The biggest headaches I had was dealing with the national partner companies that were resellers of mine that were responisble for 2 or 3 of the customers. It was a pain in the next having a middle man between me and the customer, and it was even harder for the reseller to keep the end user customer updated without them getting upset about poor communication. My point being, sure many companies can work under the finance and a large company conidating them, but the value of the local area operated by a local company just never will go away with unlicensed wireless. I'll jump the hoops, because its my business, and I have stake in the end game. But if I was an hired employee, that ticket would have been left unrepaired because it would have been to much of a pain in the neck to deal with. LArge telcos don;t deal with it, becaues they ahve other optiosn that are more profitable to manage. Small WISPs deal with it, because its their only option to play in the game. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Charles Wyble" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: >> The one thing that had initially scared me was large players moving into >> wireless. > > They seem to be actively pursuing it. They provide a lot of hotspots at > places like starbucks and allow DSL users to connect for free. SBC has > been doing it for some time, and now Verizon is as well. > >> For example a Comcast or Verizon saying "hey, OK we'll use PArt-15 >> spectrum >> to, and apply for teh grants ". > > Except for the part about the ridiculous amount of transparency it would > bring. > > But that doesn;t scare me anymore. >> The reason is its to hard to make businesses work for unlicensed. > > Oh I don't think so. They have enough money to do it where they have > sufficient middle mile infrastructure built out. If they wanted to, they > would simply deploy wifi as the last mile instead of DSL. It's a well > understood operational model, as evidenced by the folks on this list. > Sure there are quirks here and there, but the vast majority of posts to > this list discuss business models, threats, and "can someone service > area x". Which is perfectly fine. :) I'm just comparing
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
There are WISP consolidation companies out there. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Robert West" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:23 PM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > AT&T was just an example. I'm sure someone will be purchased but if > anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller > companies to make one big network. But even with that, I still see the > cellular companies trumping it all. They already have the basic > infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the > frequencies. I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye > out > and play "what if" in order to survive. For me anyway. If they erode the > market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative > things to offer that they can't. :) > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:10 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Who said the buyer had to be ATT? By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi > company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take > Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the > engine and share in the profits. Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than > a > > WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to > RBOC. > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message - > From: "Robert West" > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > >> But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I >> see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They >> already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they >> will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a >> much >> bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that >> they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint >> down >> the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half >> price. >> Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then >> on.. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of David E. Smith >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and >> WOW. >> >> Robert West wrote: >>> Why should [big companies] invest >>> their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's >>> about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we >>> can >> to >>> protect our little piece of the pie somehow. >> >> A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of >> people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and >> makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he >> was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network >> regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the >> bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit >> potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of >> sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. >> >> I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. >> >> David Smith >> MVN.net >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > ---
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
If someone comes in and undercuts you, it's your fault for not protesting their application. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Kurt Fankhauser" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:51 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring > Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went > with > an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to > be had. > > > > The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take > this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that > take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk > in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 > things > that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list > it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how > much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire > existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. > > > > They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they > want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell > you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. > They > can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. > > > > This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that > once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to > do > with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The > majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started > talking > among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money > at > all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. > > > > They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked > them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if > they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and > undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if > that > could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed > 3 > small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just > accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. > > > > This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved > area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as > much > control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. > > > > I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the > stimulus money." > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Tom DeReggi wrote: > The one thing that had initially scared me was large players moving into > wireless. They seem to be actively pursuing it. They provide a lot of hotspots at places like starbucks and allow DSL users to connect for free. SBC has been doing it for some time, and now Verizon is as well. > For example a Comcast or Verizon saying "hey, OK we'll use PArt-15 spectrum > to, and apply for teh grants ". Except for the part about the ridiculous amount of transparency it would bring. But that doesn;t scare me anymore. > The reason is its to hard to make businesses work for unlicensed. Oh I don't think so. They have enough money to do it where they have sufficient middle mile infrastructure built out. If they wanted to, they would simply deploy wifi as the last mile instead of DSL. It's a well understood operational model, as evidenced by the folks on this list. Sure there are quirks here and there, but the vast majority of posts to this list discuss business models, threats, and "can someone service area x". Which is perfectly fine. :) I'm just comparing it to other lists I'm on, where things are in the very early stages (like open source GSM stacks for example). So the telcos simply didn't do wifi because they have existing copper in the ground and make plenty from that. If they ever decide to go into small areas, I can say with about 100% certainty they won't do anything but wireless (at least in the typical consumer price point range). I mean isn't that what the WISPS are doing now? It's the only viable model near as I can tell. This is why I think that the vast majority (say 90% or so) of the broadband money should go to building out the middle mile from things like LAMBDA rail. In fact they put in a proposal offering up their fiber network for use to build middle mile off of. Then just hang wifi / wimax off of that. It doesn't > scale well. But it works well for small providers. > I'm referring to manageing and troubleshooting the last mile is to > difficult, unless the party is intimently involved with the last mile > network. Um yeah verizon and sbc are all over that with a little thing called DSL :) > Its hard to outsource it to central support on the other side of the > country. They do that pretty well already. At least on my business class connection. > Of course there will be consolidation, but I think consolidation will > eventually start to become counter productive, as the consolidation starts > to become to larger. Maybe yes, maybe no. I think it's hard to say. > > Thedeath of small wireless companies will not be from consolidation. It > will be because an area will reach a state where it no longer needs wireless > to the scale that will be large enough to support the small provider. When > consumers are given the choice to have video over broadband, for the same > price as broadband, most will likely choose it. > > The question is whether Satelite TV will survive? As long as it has a viable > percentage of market share, there will always be a market for wireless > broadband, that doesn't have to operate at fiber to the home speeds, to be > valuable. Wireless is more than capable to adequately offer the double play > (voice). > > When Fiber to the home is made possible by grants, its not the cable cos > that are hurt, its the satillite providers that are hurt more. Well except that's not viable. Fiber is SUPER expensive and not a viable option in anything but major urban areas. Wireless is far more bang for the buck. One can get a substantial amount of bandwidth, and do QoS tricks etc. But you all know that. :) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
It should be noted that 1) Middle mile projects dont have as difficult reporting requirements, 2) Accounting/Tracking systems to fullfill tracking requirements can be included in grant proposal. Accountiong for the data is hard only because we don;t have systems in palce to account for it. But if support was there from day one to track it automatically, I'm not sure its that big a problem. For example, If I were a billing provisioning sytem software developer, I'd be writing BTOP reporting compliance into my software ASAP. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > But a lot of these companies are government regulated already and have to > abide by certain amounts of transparency due to various regulations and > agreements. Some have even gone TOO far in doing as they are told, i.e. > the > 911 wiretaps. Just an extreme example. But I know what you're saying. I > don't imagine some big company grabbing the cash and swooping in and > taking > us all over. But the spirit of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936 this > isn't. The idea is to provide broadband access to every corner of the > U.S. > In 1936 they had co-ops formed who all worked together for the common > goal. > The only people I have had contact me have been the "Connect Ohio" bunch > who > do the same meetings in the other states and from whom I receive a monthly > newsletter with pictures of them with various politicians and > representatives from the major telecoms and not much info on how to get > this > goal accomplished. > > A few years ago I lived in Niagara Falls New York. The economy there > absolutely sucks so the county was awarding a grant to some unknown > company > to come in and provide wireless internet to the entire county. I don't > remember the dollar amount but it was HUGE. The local WISP, yes, there > was > already a company who was providing the larger populated areas with > wireless, he was never considered. The county supposedly thought that > some > bigger outfit from out of the area would do a better job. The local guy, > I > believe, was quoted as saying he could cover the entire county for 10 > grand > or less in equipment and he already had the basic setup, he just had to > extend out further. But no, they threw tens of thousands of dollars to > someone outside of the area to do the same as this guy was doing. > > I think that's where most of my frustration comes from. I never had > dollar > signs in my eyes from this, only as maybe a means to achieve a few goals a > bit quicker. But no big deal. It's how it's tossed up and celebrated by > these big shot government types and turns out to be a bunch of hype that > is > a big waste of my time. Kinda like when your brother in law offers to > come > help work on your truck. Yeah, he comes over and yeah he'll be in the > garage. But how much quicker could you have got the job done without his > help??? ;) > > Most of us would do it quicker and cheaper and with better quality than > any > big company because we have to. > > I'm now sitting down and shutting up. :) > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Charles Wyble > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:32 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > What you all seem to have forgotten. the big companies don't want > the stimulus money. It requires them to open themselves up to the SAME > level of INSANE TRANSPARENCY that any other grant applicant would have. > > They reject the money for the same exact reasons you all are. > > Therefore please sit down and shut up :) > > > Robert West wrote: >> AT&T was just an example. I'm sure someone will be purchased but if >> anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller >> companies to make one big network. But even with that, I still see the >> cellular companies trumping it all. They already have the basic >> infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the >> frequencies. I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye > out >> and play "what if" in order to survive. For me anyway. If they erode >> the >> market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative >> things to
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
The one thing that had initially scared me was large players moving into wireless. For example a Comcast or Verizon saying "hey, OK we'll use PArt-15 spectrum to, and apply for teh grants ". But that doesn;t scare me anymore. The reason is its to hard to make businesses work for unlicensed. It doesn't scale well. But it works well for small providers. I'm referring to manageing and troubleshooting the last mile is to difficult, unless the party is intimently involved with the last mile network. Its hard to outsource it to central support on the other side of the country. Of course there will be consolidation, but I think consolidation will eventually start to become counter productive, as the consolidation starts to become to larger. Thedeath of small wireless companies will not be from consolidation. It will be because an area will reach a state where it no longer needs wireless to the scale that will be large enough to support the small provider. When consumers are given the choice to have video over broadband, for the same price as broadband, most will likely choose it. The question is whether Satelite TV will survive? As long as it has a viable percentage of market share, there will always be a market for wireless broadband, that doesn't have to operate at fiber to the home speeds, to be valuable. Wireless is more than capable to adequately offer the double play (voice). When Fiber to the home is made possible by grants, its not the cable cos that are hurt, its the satillite providers that are hurt more. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > AT&T was just an example. I'm sure someone will be purchased but if > anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller > companies to make one big network. But even with that, I still see the > cellular companies trumping it all. They already have the basic > infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the > frequencies. I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye > out > and play "what if" in order to survive. For me anyway. If they erode the > market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative > things to offer that they can't. :) > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:10 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Who said the buyer had to be ATT? By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi > company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take > Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the > engine and share in the profits. Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than > a > > WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to > RBOC. > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Robert West" > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > >> But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I >> see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They >> already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they >> will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a >> much >> bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that >> they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint >> down >> the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half >> price. >> Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then >> on.. >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of David E. Smith >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and >> WOW. >> >> Robert West wrote: >>> Why should [big companies] invest >>> their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's >>> about ripe, they can just walk
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Robert West wrote: > But a lot of these companies are government regulated already and have to > abide by certain amounts of transparency due to various regulations and > agreements. Sure. So do WISPS if I'm not mistaken. The e-mail that started this thread mentioned the famous 477. :) But I know what you're saying. I > don't imagine some big company grabbing the cash and swooping in and taking > us all over. Sure. However the working theory seems to be that the cash will be used to enter new markets and/or starve out existing players. But the spirit of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936 this > isn't. The idea is to provide broadband access to every corner of the U.S. > In 1936 they had co-ops formed who all worked together for the common goal. > The only people I have had contact me have been the "Connect Ohio" bunch who > do the same meetings in the other states and from whom I receive a monthly > newsletter with pictures of them with various politicians and > representatives from the major telecoms and not much info on how to get this > goal accomplished. Right. > > A few years ago I lived in Niagara Falls New York. The economy there > absolutely sucks so the county was awarding a grant to some unknown company > to come in and provide wireless internet to the entire county. I don't > remember the dollar amount but it was HUGE. The local WISP, yes, there was > already a company who was providing the larger populated areas with > wireless, he was never considered. The county supposedly thought that some > bigger outfit from out of the area would do a better job. The local guy, I > believe, was quoted as saying he could cover the entire county for 10 grand > or less in equipment and he already had the basic setup, he just had to > extend out further. But no, they threw tens of thousands of dollars to > someone outside of the area to do the same as this guy was doing. Hm. Very interesting. > > I think that's where most of my frustration comes from. I never had dollar > signs in my eyes from this, only as maybe a means to achieve a few goals a > bit quicker. But no big deal. It's how it's tossed up and celebrated by > these big shot government types and turns out to be a bunch of hype that is > a big waste of my time. Right. It very much looks like the overall stimulus package fits that category. Now they are discussing another one. *shudders* However it may be too early to fully appreciate the impact. :) Kinda like when your brother in law offers to come > help work on your truck. Yeah, he comes over and yeah he'll be in the > garage. But how much quicker could you have got the job done without his > help??? ;) Excellent analogy. However in this case there seems to be a gap that isn't being filled by the current crop of providers (small independent (W)ISPS and the big guys. My understanding of the stimulus package, was designed to add another variable to folks existing business plans and financial models. Was something not possible before, be made possible with an influx of cash. Folks I have spoken with who are actively pursuing grants (particularly ARRA grants) support my assessment. Will that turn out to be the case? Who knows. > > Most of us would do it quicker and cheaper and with better quality than any > big company because we have to. Right. I agree. If no one goes after the grant money due to the evidently draconian rules (I haven't read the NOFA in it's entirety as of yet) then that should send a message and the rules will get changed. Broadband policy does seem to be a priority for this administration. We have a chance to shape that policy and make sure we have a seat at the table. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
But a lot of these companies are government regulated already and have to abide by certain amounts of transparency due to various regulations and agreements. Some have even gone TOO far in doing as they are told, i.e. the 911 wiretaps. Just an extreme example. But I know what you're saying. I don't imagine some big company grabbing the cash and swooping in and taking us all over. But the spirit of the Rural Electrification Act of 1936 this isn't. The idea is to provide broadband access to every corner of the U.S. In 1936 they had co-ops formed who all worked together for the common goal. The only people I have had contact me have been the "Connect Ohio" bunch who do the same meetings in the other states and from whom I receive a monthly newsletter with pictures of them with various politicians and representatives from the major telecoms and not much info on how to get this goal accomplished. A few years ago I lived in Niagara Falls New York. The economy there absolutely sucks so the county was awarding a grant to some unknown company to come in and provide wireless internet to the entire county. I don't remember the dollar amount but it was HUGE. The local WISP, yes, there was already a company who was providing the larger populated areas with wireless, he was never considered. The county supposedly thought that some bigger outfit from out of the area would do a better job. The local guy, I believe, was quoted as saying he could cover the entire county for 10 grand or less in equipment and he already had the basic setup, he just had to extend out further. But no, they threw tens of thousands of dollars to someone outside of the area to do the same as this guy was doing. I think that's where most of my frustration comes from. I never had dollar signs in my eyes from this, only as maybe a means to achieve a few goals a bit quicker. But no big deal. It's how it's tossed up and celebrated by these big shot government types and turns out to be a bunch of hype that is a big waste of my time. Kinda like when your brother in law offers to come help work on your truck. Yeah, he comes over and yeah he'll be in the garage. But how much quicker could you have got the job done without his help??? ;) Most of us would do it quicker and cheaper and with better quality than any big company because we have to. I'm now sitting down and shutting up. :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Wyble Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. What you all seem to have forgotten. the big companies don't want the stimulus money. It requires them to open themselves up to the SAME level of INSANE TRANSPARENCY that any other grant applicant would have. They reject the money for the same exact reasons you all are. Therefore please sit down and shut up :) Robert West wrote: > AT&T was just an example. I'm sure someone will be purchased but if > anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller > companies to make one big network. But even with that, I still see the > cellular companies trumping it all. They already have the basic > infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the > frequencies. I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye out > and play "what if" in order to survive. For me anyway. If they erode the > market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative > things to offer that they can't. :) > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:10 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Who said the buyer had to be ATT? By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi > company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take > Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the > engine and share in the profits. Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than a > > WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to > RBOC. > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Robert West" > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > >> But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I >> see is them upgrading the
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
And/or the customer gets crapped on, when the small mom and pop gets taken over by the large company who outsources support and, as someone already put it, becomes "faceless" On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM, David E. Smith wrote: > Robert West wrote: > > Why should [big companies] invest > > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can > to > > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. > > A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of > people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and > makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he > was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network > regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the > bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit > potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of > sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. > > I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
What you all seem to have forgotten. the big companies don't want the stimulus money. It requires them to open themselves up to the SAME level of INSANE TRANSPARENCY that any other grant applicant would have. They reject the money for the same exact reasons you all are. Therefore please sit down and shut up :) Robert West wrote: > AT&T was just an example. I'm sure someone will be purchased but if > anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller > companies to make one big network. But even with that, I still see the > cellular companies trumping it all. They already have the basic > infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the > frequencies. I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye out > and play "what if" in order to survive. For me anyway. If they erode the > market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative > things to offer that they can't. :) > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:10 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Who said the buyer had to be ATT? By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi > company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take > Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the > engine and share in the profits. Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than a > > WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to > RBOC. > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Robert West" > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > >> But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I >> see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They >> already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they >> will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much >> bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that >> they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down >> the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. >> Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then >> on.......... >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of David E. Smith >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >> >> Robert West wrote: >>> Why should [big companies] invest >>> their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's >>> about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can >> to >>> protect our little piece of the pie somehow. >> A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of >> people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and >> makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he >> was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network >> regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the >> bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit >> potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of >> sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. >> >> I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. >> >> David Smith >> MVN.net >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join tod
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
AT&T was just an example. I'm sure someone will be purchased but if anything I see it as one company buying up and consolidating smaller companies to make one big network. But even with that, I still see the cellular companies trumping it all. They already have the basic infrastructure, the financing, the political muscle and even the frequencies. I'm not saying to jump ship, it's just good to keep an eye out and play "what if" in order to survive. For me anyway. If they erode the market, we just have to come up with other products and more innovative things to offer that they can't. :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Who said the buyer had to be ATT? By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the engine and share in the profits. Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than a WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to RBOC. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I > see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They > already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they > will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much > bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that > they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down > the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. > Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then > on.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of David E. Smith > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Robert West wrote: >> Why should [big companies] invest >> their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's >> about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can > to >> protect our little piece of the pie somehow. > > A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of > people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and > makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he > was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network > regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the > bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit > potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of > sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. > > I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Who said the buyer had to be ATT? By the way, ATT bought Wayport, a wifi company. It didn;t make sense for ATT to upgrade infrastruvcture and take Wayport's market, when all they had to do is inject investment into the engine and share in the profits. Allthoguh Wayport was more of a LAN than a WAN company, it does show private wireless companies can be attractive to RBOC. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Robert West" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I > see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They > already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they > will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much > bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that > they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down > the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. > Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then > on.. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of David E. Smith > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Robert West wrote: >> Why should [big companies] invest >> their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's >> about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can > to >> protect our little piece of the pie somehow. > > A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of > people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and > makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he > was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network > regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the > bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit > potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of > sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. > > I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Amen Frank! This is what I expected. For me, they can pry my radios out of my cold, dead fingers! -RickG On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring > Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with > an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to > be had. > > > > The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take > this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that > take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk > in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things > that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list > it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how > much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire > existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. > > > > They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they > want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell > you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They > can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. > > > > This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that > once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do > with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The > majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking > among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at > all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. > > > > They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked > them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if > they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and > undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that > could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 > small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just > accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. > > > > This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved > area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much > control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. > > > > I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the > stimulus money." > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Just had to throw this in there so I could have a small voice in this =) What bothers me is how everyone believes the big executives (owners, operators and engineers of AT&T, Motorola, Nabisco, etc) need paycuts. Most if not all of these people work harder then many and they manage, support and rely on hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of employees! With me so far? Now think about this: paycut the million dollar salary of the athletes. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Robert West wrote: > And yet it's a fact that small businesses generate more jobs. > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Steve Barnes > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > It is frustrating how the large corps control so much and the government > looks out for them. Like the 700Mhz band. Just think what you could do > with a 10 watt 700Mhz band with 20 or 40 Mhz channels. But what happen > Government sold the band to the highest bidder and I bet less that 10% of > the band has been deployed. This is again where Cooperation between wisp's > is important to get that word out. WISPA can help us have a voice. > > Steve Barnes > Manager > PCS-WIN > RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:08 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I > see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They > already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they > will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much > bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that > they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down > the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. > Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then > on.. > > > > -Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of David E. Smith > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Robert West wrote: > > Why should [big companies] invest > > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can > to > > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. > > A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of > people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and > makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he > was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network > regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the > bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit > potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of > sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. > > I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
And yet it's a fact that small businesses generate more jobs. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:39 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. It is frustrating how the large corps control so much and the government looks out for them. Like the 700Mhz band. Just think what you could do with a 10 watt 700Mhz band with 20 or 40 Mhz channels. But what happen Government sold the band to the highest bidder and I bet less that 10% of the band has been deployed. This is again where Cooperation between wisp's is important to get that word out. WISPA can help us have a voice. Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:08 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then on.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Robert West wrote: > Why should [big companies] invest > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can to > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
It is frustrating how the large corps control so much and the government looks out for them. Like the 700Mhz band. Just think what you could do with a 10 watt 700Mhz band with 20 or 40 Mhz channels. But what happen Government sold the band to the highest bidder and I bet less that 10% of the band has been deployed. This is again where Cooperation between wisp's is important to get that word out. WISPA can help us have a voice. Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:08 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then on.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Robert West wrote: > Why should [big companies] invest > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can to > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
I've thought the same thing. As a small operator, one can have a quicker response to customer needs and be able to put a face to the company. We need to use whatever edge we can to compete, identify their weaknesses as well as ours and build these into our strengths. An organization such as WISPA could be the start of such a thing, to join the independent operators so that we could have a much stronger voice. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of richard sterne Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:04 PM To: leyun...@wispadvantage.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. "WISPs might seriously want to consider forming cooperatives in which a group of WISPs within a geographic region enter into a joint venture to expand overall capacity. Then that joint venture can apply for stimulus money." You could also save in upstream costs if you provided interconnects with your neighbors so local trafic goes between you not upstream via internet provider as more of you connect you should save more. A thought Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
But I don't really envision AT&T coming to me and cashing me out. What I see is them upgrading their infrastructure and taking the market. They already have presence in our areas with cellular. I don't see think they will care one bit about most of us small time operators. If we had a much bigger presence and were able to compete on the same national level that they can, maybe. But as it is, we're just the small time pizza joint down the street that Pizza Hut opened across from offering items at half price. Well, until the small time joint closes. Then it's full price from then on.. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Robert West wrote: > Why should [big companies] invest > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can to > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
"WISPs might seriously want to consider forming cooperatives in which a group of WISPs within a geographic region enter into a joint venture to expand overall capacity. Then that joint venture can apply for stimulus money." You could also save in upstream costs if you provided interconnects with your neighbors so local trafic goes between you not upstream via internet provider as more of you connect you should save more. A thought Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
-Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Robert West wrote: > Why should [big companies] invest > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can to > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. David Smith MVN.net REPLY FOLLOWS: You're overlooking the fact that the larger company is unlikely to buy out the small entrepreneur. How many WISPs were bought out when AT&T and Verizon started really rolling out DSL? Not many/any? The fact is that the larger corporation will drive the entrepreneur out of business by offering loss-leader teaser rates on their broadband services until the existing entrepreneurs are squeezed out of the market. Why pay value for customers when you can steal them away through unfair competition? That unfortunately is the American reality. For the most part, I see this stimulus money as a subsidy which will enable big players to entrench themselves into new markets with no risk to the big player but a big cost to any existing/competing businesses. With that in mind, WISP need to think of ways that they can tap the government money without losing their local focus. WISPs might seriously want to consider forming cooperatives in which a group of WISPs within a geographic region enter into a joint venture to expand overall capacity. Then that joint venture can apply for stimulus money. - Larry Yunker WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Robert West wrote: > Why should [big companies] invest > their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's > about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can to > protect our little piece of the pie somehow. A small entrepreneur sees an opportunity, builds something that lots of people want, makes some money from it, then a larger company buys it and makes said entrepreneur filthy rich (or at least better-off than he was). The customers win (they get the benefit of the new network regardless of who built it), the guy that just cashed out wins, the bigger company that buys the network wins (they presumably see profit potential or else they wouldn't buy). I thought this sort of sweat-equity-for-cash tradeoff was basically the American dream. I don't see this being a bad thing for anyone involved. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Frank, Of course that is true. That is why some WISPs feel the industry would be better off without the Grant program, when the grant program's goal is to reward those with the larging matching investments, instead of prioritizing small local providers. What needs to happen, is that WISPs have to not give up or give in. And try to win as many grants as possible, and protest heavily if Round 1 does not award a fair share to small local WISPs. This is even more important in National Broadband Strategy than the Grant. The meassage "small is better" needs to keep being put out there, and its not an easy message to convince people of. It will be up to WISPs if they stay in the game, or use the stimulus as an opportunity to cash out of their industry or consolidate, or not. What I hate most, is that we really needed grants that had first year operaing costs covered, it would have allowed more WISPs to qualify and offer real sustainable projects. WISPs have a much higher percent of OPEX, and the grants may not optimally help our industry ignoring the OPEX needs. But that is because this grant program is not really about helping WISPs. Its about creating stimulus. I think we'll need to wait until after first round awards to see whether this program will help our members or not. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Frank Muto" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > WISPA has amble opportunity to gain additional membership, however I am > pondering the potential of consolidation or even > losses of WISP's due to the broadband stimulus programs going to > competitive (lobbyist backed) providers. > > Could these programs have the potential of hindering Wireless broadband > competition from WISP's from the xLEC carriers? Can > the smaller WISP's compete against the bigger players who have the money > and lawyers to get the stimulus money easier? I have > already seen on the lists that regional LEC's with licensed spectrum and > no experience are applying for the loans and grants. > > Besides the legislative issues facing the WISP, could this be a harbinger > for the Wireless (WISP) broadband industry? That > besides the obstacles in providing Wi-Fi, the WISP now has another worry > of being leveraged out of their business, > potentially to an inferior competitor. > > Thoughts? > > > Frank Muto > Secure Email Plus > WISPA Vendor Member > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Andy Trimmell" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > >>I think you're definitely right here. >> >> Andy Trimmell >> PDSWireless >> Quick and Simple Internet Access >> >> Mooresville, Indiana >> 877-4-PDSNET ext 211 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Robert West >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:58 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and >> WOW. >> >> I hear ya brother! We were at the same seminar and left when it was >> clear >> that we didn't want any part of this. We decided to just keep doing >> what >> we're doing and they can stay out of it. We're doing just fine without >> them. >> >> Bob- >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser >> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:52 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >> >> Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH >> featuring >> Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went >> with >> an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" >> to >> be had. >> >> >> >> The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that >> take >> this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's >> that >> take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a >> walk >> in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 >> things >> that they want you to report on
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
I think this as a real possibility. The municipal WIFI projects of the past were nothing compared to this. The mom and pop WISPS were the ones who made WIFI a reality in almost all the markets where it exists. But if we look to the past with other services of this type, it was always big companies coming in and reaping the benefits from the market that was created by the smaller ones. The cable television industry for example. In my town, we had one guy who setup the system, nurtured it and had it grow and he made a good living on it. Everyone even knew him by name, Max. It was like that in all the small towns around. Now we have just a handful of players in the Cable industry, all big and all faceless. Now that they see that a buck can be made because the demand is finally there, they can manipulate this Broadband Stimulus plan to their benefit and drive us out. The future just may be a handful of wireless providers all with the names of ATT, Verizon, etc. We all know that everything will be IP based eventually, TV, Radio, Phone even the utility meters and they know it too. Why should they invest their cash in building a market when we can do it for them and once it's about ripe, they can just walk in and pick it? We need to do what we can to protect our little piece of the pie somehow. Trouble is, most small business owners are too busy and too concerned with the day to day operations of surviving, which is just how it has to be, instead of getting organized with others and building their own lobbying group. Just thoughts. Added, we also had the local company that provided electricity and telephone. Most were small players until they were bought up or taken over. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Frank Muto Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. WISPA has amble opportunity to gain additional membership, however I am pondering the potential of consolidation or even losses of WISP's due to the broadband stimulus programs going to competitive (lobbyist backed) providers. Could these programs have the potential of hindering Wireless broadband competition from WISP's from the xLEC carriers? Can the smaller WISP's compete against the bigger players who have the money and lawyers to get the stimulus money easier? I have already seen on the lists that regional LEC's with licensed spectrum and no experience are applying for the loans and grants. Besides the legislative issues facing the WISP, could this be a harbinger for the Wireless (WISP) broadband industry? That besides the obstacles in providing Wi-Fi, the WISP now has another worry of being leveraged out of their business, potentially to an inferior competitor. Thoughts? Frank Muto Secure Email Plus WISPA Vendor Member - Original Message - From: "Andy Trimmell" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >I think you're definitely right here. > > Andy Trimmell > PDSWireless > Quick and Simple Internet Access > > Mooresville, Indiana > 877-4-PDSNET ext 211 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:58 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and > WOW. > > I hear ya brother! We were at the same seminar and left when it was > clear > that we didn't want any part of this. We decided to just keep doing > what > we're doing and they can stay out of it. We're doing just fine without > them. > > Bob- > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:52 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH > featuring > Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went > with > an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" > to > be had. > > > > The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that > take > this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's > that > take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a > walk > in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 > things > that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't >
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
This is kinda what I felt like after going to a info seminar RUS put on a couple years ago for the Maine ISPs. The headache wasnt worth the interest savings. Thanks for the update. On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 08:51:46AM -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring > Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with > an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to > be had. > > > > The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take > this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that > take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk > in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things > that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list > it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how > much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire > existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. > > > > They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they > want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell > you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They > can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. > > > > This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that > once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do > with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The > majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking > among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at > all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. > > > > They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked > them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if > they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and > undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that > could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 > small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just > accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. > > > > This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved > area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much > control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. > > > > I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the > stimulus money." > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
WISPA has amble opportunity to gain additional membership, however I am pondering the potential of consolidation or even losses of WISP's due to the broadband stimulus programs going to competitive (lobbyist backed) providers. Could these programs have the potential of hindering Wireless broadband competition from WISP's from the xLEC carriers? Can the smaller WISP's compete against the bigger players who have the money and lawyers to get the stimulus money easier? I have already seen on the lists that regional LEC's with licensed spectrum and no experience are applying for the loans and grants. Besides the legislative issues facing the WISP, could this be a harbinger for the Wireless (WISP) broadband industry? That besides the obstacles in providing Wi-Fi, the WISP now has another worry of being leveraged out of their business, potentially to an inferior competitor. Thoughts? Frank Muto Secure Email Plus WISPA Vendor Member - Original Message - From: "Andy Trimmell" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. >I think you're definitely right here. > > Andy Trimmell > PDSWireless > Quick and Simple Internet Access > > Mooresville, Indiana > 877-4-PDSNET ext 211 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Robert West > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:58 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and > WOW. > > I hear ya brother! We were at the same seminar and left when it was > clear > that we didn't want any part of this. We decided to just keep doing > what > we're doing and they can stay out of it. We're doing just fine without > them. > > Bob- > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:52 AM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. > > Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH > featuring > Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went > with > an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" > to > be had. > > > > The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that > take > this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's > that > take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a > walk > in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 > things > that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't > list > it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and > how > much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire > existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. > > > > They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they > want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly > tell > you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. > They > can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. > > > > This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year > that > once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted > to do > with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The > majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started > talking > among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money > at > all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. > > > > They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked > them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and > if > they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and > undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if > that > could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just > killed 3 > small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just > accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was > crazy. > > > > This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved > area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as > much > control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. > > > > I'm going to start running
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Ladies and Gentlemen. This is my take on ARRA as well. I have no desire to have a new partner like big brother. However, I would like to add that there are some larger WISP's who are members of WISPA who already receive federal and state grant funding that have learned to deal with this kind of monitoring. I hope they are successful in their applications and that they will work for the betterment of all WISP's. For the rest of us, I believe that WISPA is a critical link to our future. Banding together as an organized group under the WISPA organization will only prove to move us forward and bring about changes at the FCC and other government agencies that individually we could never achieve. If you are not a member I would encourage you to join. Steve Barnes Manager PCS-WIN RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
I think you're definitely right here. Andy Trimmell PDSWireless Quick and Simple Internet Access Mooresville, Indiana 877-4-PDSNET ext 211 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. I hear ya brother! We were at the same seminar and left when it was clear that we didn't want any part of this. We decided to just keep doing what we're doing and they can stay out of it. We're doing just fine without them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.23/2254 - Release Date: 07/28/09 06:00:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
I hear ya brother! We were at the same seminar and left when it was clear that we didn't want any part of this. We decided to just keep doing what we're doing and they can stay out of it. We're doing just fine without them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW. Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] just attended broadband stimulus seminar and WOW.....
Yesterday there was a broadband stimulus seminar in Columbus, OH featuring Senator Sherrod Brown, ConnectOhio.org, USDA Rural Development. I went with an open mind and left not wanting anything to do with this "free money" to be had. The government is trying to get as much control out of the ISP's that take this money as they possibly can. The reporting requirements for ISP's that take this money is a huge burden. This makes FCC Form 477 look like a walk in the park compared to what they want to know. There are about 30-50 things that they want you to report on and some of it is just crazy. I can't list it all but they basically want to know what brand of toilet paper and how much of it you use per customer.. And this will apply to your entire existing infrastructure that was in place before you took the money. They can come in and look at all your confidential records anytime they want. They can even change the rules years down the road and possibly tell you what to charge your customer per month to what they think is fair. They can also tell you how to do your QoS and what you can and can not block. This sounds like the same deal with the bank bailouts from last year that once they took the money and found out what role the government wanted to do with them that they wanted to give it all back but wasn't allowed. The majority of the attendees once we got into the workshops and started talking among each other was that they don't want anything to do with this money at all either once they found out all the hidden strings attached to it. They are encouraging few larger projects than many smaller ones. I asked them what about the area that already has 2-3 fixed wireless ISP's and if they give the money to a very large outfit that comes into the area and undercuts the smaller guys by $5/month and runs them out of business if that could happen and they said it probably would. I said well you just killed 3 small businesses to create a larger one what the heck did you just accomplish that for and they just gave me a blank stare like I was crazy. This is not about getting broadband internet to un-served/underserved area's, this entire stimulus is about the government trying to gain as much control as they possibly can into the ISP business.. I'm going to start running ads saying "go with us, we refused to take the stimulus money." Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
