Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Sounds like you need better gear. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband We include 6 gigs with your account. Gigs 6 through 10 are $2.50 each. 10 through 20 are $5.00 each. Usually when my customers get over 20 it's due to a virus and they will get it fixed and not be up there again. We never bill for the first overage. If they keep up with the high usage (even after being warned about the bill that will come next time) we do bill them. Though we often cut the bill in half. We have a few people that download movies and are happy to pay us upwards of $100 per month on their $40 per month accounts. They say that they'll pay the cable company or the movie rental place anyway, why not just pay us. Works for me I guess. Trouble is, it's still not worth it. The heavy users screw things up for everyone, even if they pay $100 per month they still use up more spectrum than they are worth. Heaven forbid you get 3 or 4 like that on one or 2 ap's on a tower We are billing out nearly $1000 per month in overages though. We get most of that. Some people will quit and never pay, or we cut the bill way down. When you are billing out $20k per month that extra grand sure helps! marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I agree mosth customers havn't hit 1GB transfer for this year. But what about the customer that downloaded 25GB last week? I have a few of those. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Still is Blizzard. You're talking about a no win situation and then say you'll go to farming? hah! -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Bryan, In most part, I agree with your reasoning. For legitamate things, such as WOW's maker's (used to be Blizzard I think) updates, their is nothing stopping them from offering their updates via ftp, but no...they prefer to offer it via bittorrent that brings our wirelesss connections down to a crawl. Why? because it does not entirely bring their own network down to a crawl. Same for releases of Linux. I can ftp to any reputable college and ftp down a complete copy of any new linux release. Now they are taking advantage of the final end providers! Where does it stop? Are we supposed to build networks for Netflix, Youtube, etc... and offer it for a consumable price? thats where I believe its going or trying to go? If it goes there, I will resort to farming...its a no win prop! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Bryan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:51:17 -0600 There are arguments for flat rate and for metered for most utilities and services. All you can eat attracts people who don't want to worry about overages, where tiered usage plans cater to the penny-pincher who knows exactly how much (or little) he needs. For a service provider it is much simpler to offer flat-rate pricing than metered because you don't have to track usage. But it boils down to *your* needs and your customer base as an ISP. Ultimately customers need to understand that not all networks are created equal, and never will be 100% the same. Just as each physical medium has its own limitations, management styles, network design, and target customer each introduce variables that change the behavior of the network. You have to look at your target customer base and design a system for them, not let a few power-users dictate how you will run your business. The (generally illegal) actions of 10% of your users should not affect and hinder the (value added) service(s) you provide to the other 90+%. The real Net Neutrality concern should be about network owners purposefully hindering access to legitimate but less preferred content providers. Proponents cannot consider end-users as content providers, and that's what they're trying to do with the whole P2P mess. I pity the pro-P2P advocates; if the overwhelming percentage of P2P traffic that is illegitimate was taken out of the picture, their miniscule amount of valid traffic would fly under the radar and P2P would no longer be a problem. Scottie Arnett wrote: Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few months. First the FCC said it was a matter of them not having a statement of shaping traffic in their TOS, now it has come to that any provider offering internet service should have an open network! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jason Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:29 -0700 Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
It seems to me that in the ensuing discussion of this, there are several models proposed that do not take into account any costs other than bandwidth cost. I would think that one should calculate what it costs to aquire and maintain a customer, including office/support/billing/equipment etc... which added together are a significant part of where the money goes. I read somewhere that bandwidth is only 5-10% of the average ISP's budget. I wish that were my own experience. I suspect that a base of $20-30/month would be a reasonable amount, BEFORE adding any bandwidth cost. Then.. if it costs $1 or $2 per gig of data transfer, that can be added to the base, perhaps calculating an amount that would cover 90+% of users and including that amount in the flat-rate MRC, and charging overages for data transfers over that amount. A simple $2/gig charge on a customer that only transfers 1 gig/month is going to make that customer a losing proposition for me. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
We don't limit bandwidth usage, but we do throttle some things and change out our Priorities. We give VoIP traffic priority over everything else, Web Browsing then POP. SMTP second to bottom for priority, P2P all the way down on the crap scale. However when it comes to P2P we limit that amount of traffic per site depending on equipment there. Examples: Trango 900 equipment: We limited to a max of 500k up/down for p2p Old Alvarin BA2 Equipment: We limit it to 200k up/down Alvarion VL gear We limited it to 2 mpbs up/down Trango 5.x gear currently is 1 mbps up/down. This has proven to work well for us, but when it was a giant free for all, man, I got paged one to many times about slow downs. (SUCK!) We do keep the throttling pretty loose, because I think sometimes, if I was a customer, I wouldn't want to be limited on P2P, obviously I have the means to change the rules for me, but I don't think of it that way, which is why we have different rates depending on what the site can handle. If your concern is just traffic usage, I would try some more throttling or do what another post advised, send them to Competition. We are not afraid to call people and tell them to cut it out, your breaking the bank with your bandwidth usage. Sometimes it puts it into perspective when you tell them how much you pay per Mbit. I can't even count how many times I've called and spoke with the account holders and they say, It must have been my kids. I told them I would like to talk with them and explain how this all works, you can be surprised on how receptive they are. I've even invited them into the office before. All in all, I would just get after users causing the problems. -Cameron MIS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Still is Blizzard. You're talking about a no win situation and then say you'll go to farming? hah! -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Bryan, In most part, I agree with your reasoning. For legitamate things, such as WOW's maker's (used to be Blizzard I think) updates, their is nothing stopping them from offering their updates via ftp, but no...they prefer to offer it via bittorrent that brings our wirelesss connections down to a crawl. Why? because it does not entirely bring their own network down to a crawl. Same for releases of Linux. I can ftp to any reputable college and ftp down a complete copy of any new linux release. Now they are taking advantage of the final end providers! Where does it stop? Are we supposed to build networks for Netflix, Youtube, etc... and offer it for a consumable price? thats where I believe its going or trying to go? If it goes there, I will resort to farming...its a no win prop! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Bryan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:51:17 -0600 There are arguments for flat rate and for metered for most utilities and services. All you can eat attracts people who don't want to worry about overages, where tiered usage plans cater to the penny-pincher who knows exactly how much (or little) he needs. For a service provider it is much simpler to offer flat-rate pricing than metered because you don't have to track usage. But it boils down to *your* needs and your customer base as an ISP. Ultimately customers need to understand that not all networks are created equal, and never will be 100% the same. Just as each physical medium has its own limitations, management styles, network design, and target customer each introduce variables that change the behavior of the network. You have to look at your target customer base and design a system for them, not let a few power-users dictate how you will run your business. The (generally illegal) actions of 10% of your users should not affect and hinder the (value added) service(s) you provide to the other 90+%. The real Net Neutrality concern should be about network owners purposefully hindering access to legitimate but less preferred content providers. Proponents cannot consider end-users as content providers, and that's what they're trying to do with the whole P2P mess. I pity the pro-P2P advocates; if the overwhelming percentage of P2P traffic that is illegitimate was taken out of the picture, their miniscule amount of valid traffic would fly under the radar and P2P would no longer be a problem. Scottie Arnett wrote: Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Our average user does under 2 gigs per month. Only 10% or so ever go over that. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Metered Broadband So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
We include 6 gigs with your account. Gigs 6 through 10 are $2.50 each. 10 through 20 are $5.00 each. Usually when my customers get over 20 it's due to a virus and they will get it fixed and not be up there again. We never bill for the first overage. If they keep up with the high usage (even after being warned about the bill that will come next time) we do bill them. Though we often cut the bill in half. We have a few people that download movies and are happy to pay us upwards of $100 per month on their $40 per month accounts. They say that they'll pay the cable company or the movie rental place anyway, why not just pay us. Works for me I guess. Trouble is, it's still not worth it. The heavy users screw things up for everyone, even if they pay $100 per month they still use up more spectrum than they are worth. Heaven forbid you get 3 or 4 like that on one or 2 ap's on a tower We are billing out nearly $1000 per month in overages though. We get most of that. Some people will quit and never pay, or we cut the bill way down. When you are billing out $20k per month that extra grand sure helps! marlon - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I agree mosth customers havn't hit 1GB transfer for this year. But what about the customer that downloaded 25GB last week? I have a few of those. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
I agree. I had a gamer come to me the other day wanting a guarantee that his games would work on our system. heh Told him that if it's really that much money on the line (he said he had up to $25k per month riding on his gaming) he should buy a t-1 from the telco! Never heard from him again. grin laters marlon - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Funny, we have people and companies ask us for this type of setup quite often. Rather than running them off, we price it accordingly and build our network to support them even if that is a dedicated link to their premise. I would much rather take their 300-500/month (t1 pricing) than give them to the telcos Ryan Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I agree. I had a gamer come to me the other day wanting a guarantee that his games would work on our system. heh Told him that if it's really that much money on the line (he said he had up to $25k per month riding on his gaming) he should buy a t-1 from the telco! Never heard from him again. grin laters marlon - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Langseth System Administrator InvisiMax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 218.745.6030 Cell: 701.739.1577 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
I think that's the catch phrase... open meaning, not blocked. So don't block p2p or any other traffic, just throttle it down... WAY down... I gave a talk about doing this with Linux + HTB a couple of years ago. I had our head-end traffic shaper doing classful queuing, giving each type of traffic a priority level, an average bandwidth level and a maximum that it could borrow from the other classes if they weren't doing anything. The borrowing concept is nice, allowing the majority of surfing/emailing customers to get what they need/want during peak hours, and the underground junk works slightly better after hours. Oh, and all the good P2P still works. VoIP, VPN/RDP/SSH and other latency-sensitive items got highest priority and a decent bandwidth allocation. The office got the next priority down (includes telemetry and other admin traffic) and plenty of bandwidth. Meat and potatoes apps like web surfing and email got a middle to lower priority with a big chunk of bandwidth. Unknown traffic got a low priority with some bandwidth but the option to borrow from others so that I didn't break anything. Known P2P traffic got the lowest priority and bandwidth allocation, but had enough that it wouldn't totally stop. Didn't get any complaints. This was very critical when we were bumping our heads on our DS3's, but doesn't buy me much with Gig-E circuits. So instead we monitor individual AP sites occasionally for heavy use. Just like everyone else we usually see one or two heavy users pop up every once in a while. And 9 times out of 10 it's a teenager. -- Bryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Yeah, me too. But this guy is an unemployed gamer. Guess what he's really gonna do? Stay with the DSL cause it's cheaper. grin marlon - Original Message - From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Funny, we have people and companies ask us for this type of setup quite often. Rather than running them off, we price it accordingly and build our network to support them even if that is a dedicated link to their premise. I would much rather take their 300-500/month (t1 pricing) than give them to the telcos Ryan Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I agree. I had a gamer come to me the other day wanting a guarantee that his games would work on our system. heh Told him that if it's really that much money on the line (he said he had up to $25k per month riding on his gaming) he should buy a t-1 from the telco! Never heard from him again. grin laters marlon - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Langseth System Administrator InvisiMax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 218.745.6030 Cell: 701.739.1577 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Nothing you can do about bottom-feeders. Those are not our customers. If a company wants to offer everything and charge nothing, more power to them... Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Yeah, me too. But this guy is an unemployed gamer. Guess what he's really gonna do? Stay with the DSL cause it's cheaper. grin marlon - Original Message - From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Funny, we have people and companies ask us for this type of setup quite often. Rather than running them off, we price it accordingly and build our network to support them even if that is a dedicated link to their premise. I would much rather take their 300-500/month (t1 pricing) than give them to the telcos Ryan Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I agree. I had a gamer come to me the other day wanting a guarantee that his games would work on our system. heh Told him that if it's really that much money on the line (he said he had up to $25k per month riding on his gaming) he should buy a t-1 from the telco! Never heard from him again. grin laters marlon - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ryan Langseth System Administrator InvisiMax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 218.745.6030 Cell: 701.739.1577 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think "metered" broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an "unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99" service pricing. My power company will do a "level-pay" program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a "fair" amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
I agree mosth customers havn't hit 1GB transfer for this year. But what about the customer that downloaded 25GB last week? I have a few of those. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Those are the ones you give your competition. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I agree mosth customers havn't hit 1GB transfer for this year. But what about the customer that downloaded 25GB last week? I have a few of those. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Haven't done 1 GB this YEAR? Are you sure anything's there? I wouldn't be surprised if I've had a GB of traffic used up just in script kiddies port scanning. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I agree mosth customers havn't hit 1GB transfer for this year. But what about the customer that downloaded 25GB last week? I have a few of those. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
You call them and say We have noticed very heavy activity on your account. Your current package does not permit that type of activity. We do have a package that allows that type of activity, and it is $xx per month. Travis Microserv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I agree mosth customers havn't hit 1GB transfer for this year. But what about the customer that downloaded 25GB last week? I have a few of those. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
oh, I'm not having any issues with excessive customers. I use more (excluding my friend) than 30 other customers combined. Discussions on another list prompted me to ask around about this. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Cell phones and some telecom companies are the only things where you can get an all you can eat. Note: I'm just playing devil's advocate and providing countering points from other lists to see what others can bring to the conversation. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Most of those are heavily funded and can operate at that point for a while. Wait till they see 80% of their customers using 18,000 minutes of off network minutes a month and see what happens! That's 300 hours a month that I used to see on dial-up usage of many customers. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:34:04 -0500 Cell phones and some telecom companies are the only things where you can get an all you can eat. Note: I'm just playing devil's advocate and providing countering points from other lists to see what others can bring to the conversation. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Hi, Although it's a great thought, I don't think metered broadband will ever catch on in the US. Even the cell phone companies are moving to an unlimited voice/data/SMS package for only $99 service pricing. My power company will do a level-pay program on my power after being activated for a full year. They take the average of the 12 months and that's your fixed monthly payment. They make adjustments each year, if necessary. There are a couple things I see: (1) People would rather have a higher monthly rate, if they know it's a fixed price. Nobody likes surprises, especially when it comes to bills. (2) You are basically cutting your own throat by doing something like this. Why would you go install a customer that may be a $15/mo customer (because they only check email) compared with installing a $29/mo customer? It's the same amount of time, equipment, customer support, tower rent, AP, etc. If you have people that are using more than a fair amount of bandwidth, then charge them more or ask them to leave... but there's no reason to completely remodel your pricing structure because of a few customers. Travis Microserv Scott Reed wrote: Half my customers have pulled less than 1G since April 16 or so when I started tracking it. I'll be optimistic and think they would all do 1G per month. I don't think I am going to drop a $33 per month customer down to $2 per month. I might consider $30 base and $2/G over X/Gig, but I haven't figured out what X is, yet. Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
I think things are going the other way... cell phones now have "unlimited" plans. Long distance can now be purchased as "unlimited". The water at my home and business (separate towns and utilities) are both "unlimited". Your local dial-tone has been unlimited for how many years? Travis Microserv Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely "open" concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Music industry is not going to sit back and let the FCC pass a law that will prohibit ISP'S from blocking P2P. I got P2P blocked from noon to midnight. Some kid calls me up wondering why his limewire won't connect. I say try it after midnight. He says well hows that gonna work for me I tell him, its easy, you just do your illegal downloading after midnight. Then he says, ok thanks. Click... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Wallace Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Have you considered $19/mo for 1 Gig, $39/mo for 5 Gig and $59/mo for 10 Gig +$x per gig over what they normally pay? Another thought is do the tiers, and throttle them after they hit a point, after 1 gig, then you get throttled to 64k for the rest of the month. John Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
I think that's the catch phrase... "open" meaning, not blocked. So don't block p2p or any other traffic, just throttle it down... WAY down... Travis Scottie Arnett wrote: Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few months. First the FCC said it was a matter of them not having a statement of shaping traffic in their TOS, now it has come to that any provider offering internet service should have an "open" network! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jason Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:29 -0700 Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running "servers" or "peer to peer applications" on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely "open" concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few months. First the FCC said it was a matter of them not having a statement of shaping traffic in their TOS, now it has come to that any provider offering internet service should have an open network! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jason Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:29 -0700 Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Good idea! Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband I think that's the catch phrase... open meaning, not blocked. So don't block p2p or any other traffic, just throttle it down... WAY down... Travis Scottie Arnett wrote: Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few months. First the FCC said it was a matter of them not having a statement of shaping traffic in their TOS, now it has come to that any provider offering internet service should have an open network! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jason Wallace mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:29 -0700 Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- AV Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM) --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Travis Johnson wrote: I think things are going the other way... cell phones now have "unlimited" plans. Long distance can now be purchased as "unlimited". The water at my home and business (separate towns and utilities) are both "unlimited". Your local dial-tone has been unlimited for how many years? In many areas, your local dial tone WAS unlimited. Now, 50 or 400 here in SW lower MI... Travis Microserv Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely "open" concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott -- Original Message -- From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:23:58 -0500 So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
There are arguments for flat rate and for metered for most utilities and services. All you can eat attracts people who don't want to worry about overages, where tiered usage plans cater to the penny-pincher who knows exactly how much (or little) he needs. For a service provider it is much simpler to offer flat-rate pricing than metered because you don't have to track usage. But it boils down to *your* needs and your customer base as an ISP. Ultimately customers need to understand that not all networks are created equal, and never will be 100% the same. Just as each physical medium has its own limitations, management styles, network design, and target customer each introduce variables that change the behavior of the network. You have to look at your target customer base and design a system for them, not let a few power-users dictate how you will run your business. The (generally illegal) actions of 10% of your users should not affect and hinder the (value added) service(s) you provide to the other 90+%. The real Net Neutrality concern should be about network owners purposefully hindering access to legitimate but less preferred content providers. Proponents cannot consider end-users as content providers, and that's what they're trying to do with the whole P2P mess. I pity the pro-P2P advocates; if the overwhelming percentage of P2P traffic that is illegitimate was taken out of the picture, their miniscule amount of valid traffic would fly under the radar and P2P would no longer be a problem. Scottie Arnett wrote: Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few months. First the FCC said it was a matter of them not having a statement of shaping traffic in their TOS, now it has come to that any provider offering internet service should have an open network! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jason Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:29 -0700 Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
My customers on average consume about 5 gigs each. I suspect 10% use about 75% of the traffic. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Metered Broadband So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
What ever you do decide to charge on a bit cap metered unit price plan, start the base fee off at the competitive market price and then work backwards to determine how much transfer is included. An example: if you like $2.00 per gig unit price, and the typical market price in your area is say $40.00, then you charge 40.00 +/- and give them a 20 gig +/- bandwidth allowance. Question, is the transfer both up and down combined? Mike Hammett wrote: So what types of rates would be appropriate for a metered broadband service? It obviously depends on what your costs are. I'll just throw something out to start a conversation, not necessarily reflective of any costs. $2/gig transferred, no other costs or limits. $10 base, $1.50/gig transferred, no other limits. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Metered Broadband
Bryan, In most part, I agree with your reasoning. For legitamate things, such as WOW's maker's (used to be Blizzard I think) updates, their is nothing stopping them from offering their updates via ftp, but no...they prefer to offer it via bittorrent that brings our wirelesss connections down to a crawl. Why? because it does not entirely bring their own network down to a crawl. Same for releases of Linux. I can ftp to any reputable college and ftp down a complete copy of any new linux release. Now they are taking advantage of the final end providers! Where does it stop? Are we supposed to build networks for Netflix, Youtube, etc... and offer it for a consumable price? thats where I believe its going or trying to go? If it goes there, I will resort to farming...its a no win prop! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Bryan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:51:17 -0600 There are arguments for flat rate and for metered for most utilities and services. All you can eat attracts people who don't want to worry about overages, where tiered usage plans cater to the penny-pincher who knows exactly how much (or little) he needs. For a service provider it is much simpler to offer flat-rate pricing than metered because you don't have to track usage. But it boils down to *your* needs and your customer base as an ISP. Ultimately customers need to understand that not all networks are created equal, and never will be 100% the same. Just as each physical medium has its own limitations, management styles, network design, and target customer each introduce variables that change the behavior of the network. You have to look at your target customer base and design a system for them, not let a few power-users dictate how you will run your business. The (generally illegal) actions of 10% of your users should not affect and hinder the (value added) service(s) you provide to the other 90+%. The real Net Neutrality concern should be about network owners purposefully hindering access to legitimate but less preferred content providers. Proponents cannot consider end-users as content providers, and that's what they're trying to do with the whole P2P mess. I pity the pro-P2P advocates; if the overwhelming percentage of P2P traffic that is illegitimate was taken out of the picture, their miniscule amount of valid traffic would fly under the radar and P2P would no longer be a problem. Scottie Arnett wrote: Jason, My TOS do the same thing, but just do a search about Comcast blocking Vuze(bittorrent) and see what has been happening over the last few months. First the FCC said it was a matter of them not having a statement of shaping traffic in their TOS, now it has come to that any provider offering internet service should have an open network! Scott -- Original Message -- From: Jason Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:31:29 -0700 Question: If you are privately owned and have received no federal (or otherwise) money for your network AND it is spelled out in your contract, could the FCC actually tell you you have to run wide open / allow any app? If so, where would the line get drawn (Universities, Libraries, etc...)? My contract prohibits running servers or peer to peer applications on the connection. Jason Scottie Arnett wrote: I am not sure what the costs should or will be? But...I will say that is where I think broadband will be headed, for sure, if the FCC keeps going the way they are headed(since the Comcast deal) with the completely open concept, such as no bandwidth shaping of any sort. Even the BIG players such as the major cable companies and the major telcos cannot operate their networks very long with the new bandwidth intensive apps coming along(unless its on their own network) with no bandwidth shaping. IMHO, I think this is how it should be, a cost per data transfer or a limit and then overage charges, just as electric, long distance, water usage, etc... have been for a long time. My 2 pence worth. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
