Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Or indeed using any browser on a Mac; 1. Internet Explorer - nothing but source code 2. Safari - NO navigation 3. Firefox - NO navigation I'm only assuming there's navigation - I caught a glimpse of it in the PDF. Probably cost them a fortune too Actually - I finally found the navigation - but hey, what's the point of having navigation accessible on the front page. Navigation is SO highly overrated... :) On 02/05/2004, at 3:32 PM, Rob Unsworth wrote: Hi all, I just had reason to visit the ACA web site, http://www.aca.gov.au In their own words. The website has been redesigned to allow users to easily find their way around the site. The new site has five information categories: And from the Accessibility page. Nah, I'll let you enjoy the experience. You'll have more fun with flash and Javascript turned off. I like the idea of the 345kb PDF that is provided to help me to use the site. -- Regards, Rob Unsworth Ipswich, Australia --- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
On Sun, 2 May 2004 16:05:53 +1000, Christiaan Knol wrote: 2. Safari - NO navigation Oh It was my browser that was the problem. Silly me, I was thinking that it was the site.. g in order to make this more on topic Clearly, (Australian) government departments need to get more information on standards based development. Perhaps an equivalent of the US 508 legislation? Loath as I am to encourage more legislation passing, any thoughts on how we can get something like this here? Lea ~ cant beleive I am typing this... -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
On Sun, 2 May 2004, Lea de Groot wrote: On Sun, 2 May 2004 16:05:53 +1000, Christiaan Knol wrote: 2. Safari - NO navigation Oh It was my browser that was the problem. Silly me, I was thinking that it was the site.. g in order to make this more on topic Clearly, (Australian) government departments need to get more information on standards based development. Perhaps an equivalent of the US 508 legislation? Loath as I am to encourage more legislation passing, any thoughts on how we can get something like this here? I thought about being off topic, but it is web standards, or a lack of. I was looking for feedback as I think I am about to write a letter telling the ACA that they wasted my tax dollars on that site. -- Regards, Rob Unsworth Ipswich, Australia --- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Hi Following on from this, it's the kind of thing a Web Standards Group whitepaper could help with - drawing on everyone's collective knowledge. ..or a press release... coming after the Australian Gov's $4 million IT dept website fiasco last year, it may be picked up by a few outlets. Ideas? Cheers James Lea de Groot wrote: On Sun, 2 May 2004 16:05:53 +1000, Christiaan Knol wrote: 2. Safari - NO navigation Oh It was my browser that was the problem. Silly me, I was thinking that it was the site.. g in order to make this more on topic Clearly, (Australian) government departments need to get more information on standards based development. Perhaps an equivalent of the US 508 legislation? Loath as I am to encourage more legislation passing, any thoughts on how we can get something like this here? Lea ~ cant beleive I am typing this... * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
On Sun, 2 May 2004, James Ellis wrote: Hi Following on from this, it's the kind of thing a Web Standards Group whitepaper could help with - drawing on everyone's collective knowledge. ..or a press release... coming after the Australian Gov's $4 million IT dept website fiasco last year, it may be picked up by a few outlets. Ideas? An official press release from the Web Standards Group would carry more weight than an individual. Written by someone with better journalistic skills that yours truly. -- Regards, | Lions District 201 Q3 Rob Unsworth | IT Internet Chairman Ipswich, Australia| http://www.lionsq3.asn.au - * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Look in the meta tags ... [quote] META content=Microsoft FrontPage 5.0 name=GENERATOR [/quote] HAR!! HAR!! HAR!! HARGUFFAW!!! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lea de Groot Sent: Sunday, 2 May 2004 4:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority On Sun, 2 May 2004 16:05:53 +1000, Christiaan Knol wrote: 2. Safari - NO navigation Oh It was my browser that was the problem. Silly me, I was thinking that it was the site.. g * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] CSS: writing-mode
Hey All... I just noticed that my PHPMYADMIN has an option to rotate headers while BROWSING tables... This flips the text so its displayed vertivally, not horizontally... It uses the CSS attribute: writing-mode I havent heard, or seen this before... where did it come from? anyone know - or have any info about this? Thanks! -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.neester.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode
It uses the CSS attribute: writing-mode I havent heard, or seen this before... where did it come from? anyone know - or have any info about this? It's a Microsoft proprietary thing. Not valid. Only works in IE. Having said that, take a look at this CSS3 candidate recommendation: http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-text-20030514/#writing-mode Although I'm still assuming that your software is relying on the Microsoft implementation. Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] identical sites, different servers, display differently??
I'm a bit confused right now... Its killing me I have the same site, 1 page + 1 css file located here: http://beta.arc.com.au http://beta.arc.com.au/ AND http://arc.prettymad.net http://arc.prettymad.net/ I copied the CSS and the PHP file from one to the other directly and when I display it in IE6 (works elsewhere) it displays differently! It works on the beta.arc.com.au but doesn't work on the arc.prettymad.net What in the world is going on here!! Argh!!! HELP! Mariusz Our company accepts no liability for the content of this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. 2/5/2004 www.comra.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode
Ok thanks guys! That cleared up my curiosity for the day! btw another thing... I have been told by someone that the W3C is controlled by MS. Which I thought was total crap since IE is the worst browser out there... I know that MS dontated a lot of tech to W3C... is there any validity to my friends suggestion?? Thanks! Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.neester.com Patrick Griffiths wrote: It uses the CSS attribute: writing-mode I havent heard, or seen this before... where did it come from? anyone know - or have any info about this? It's a Microsoft proprietary thing. Not valid. Only works in IE. Having said that, take a look at this CSS3 candidate recommendation: http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-text-20030514/#writing-mode Although I'm still assuming that your software is relying on the Microsoft implementation. Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] identical sites, different servers, display differently??
Hi Mariusz, Are you referring to spacing issues between the navigation list items? Looking at the source, the beta.arc server is stripping out excess whitespace. This is known to affect IE6. Regards, Ben Mariusz Stankiewicz wrote: I have the same site, 1 page + 1 css file located here: I copied the CSS and the PHP file from one to the other directly and when I display it in IE6 (works elsewhere) it displays differently * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] identical sites, different servers, display differently??
Ok I just realised it doesn't render properly if there are spaces between the ulli/li/ul tags You can still view the 'broken' page here: http://arc.prettymad.net/broken_ie.php How weird. -Original Message- From: Mariusz Stankiewicz Sent: Sunday, 2 May 2004 10:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] identical sites, different servers, display differently?? I'm a bit confused right now... Its killing me I have the same site, 1 page + 1 css file located here: http://beta.arc.com.au http://beta.arc.com.au/ AND http://arc.prettymad.net http://arc.prettymad.net/ I copied the CSS and the PHP file from one to the other directly and when I display it in IE6 (works elsewhere) it displays differently! It works on the beta.arc.com.au but doesn't work on the arc.prettymad.net What in the world is going on here!! Argh!!! HELP! Mariusz Our company accepts no liability for the content of this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. 2/5/2004 www.comra.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] identical sites, different servers, display differently??
Both work perfectly here! try clearing you cache, deleting temp internet files etc... maybe your ISP is cacheing it also...?? Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.neester.com Mariusz Stankiewicz wrote: I'm a bit confused right now... Its killing me I have the same site, 1 page + 1 css file located here: http://beta.arc.com.au http://beta.arc.com.au/ AND http://arc.prettymad.net http://arc.prettymad.net/ I copied the CSS and the PHP file from one to the other directly and when I display it in IE6 (works elsewhere) it displays differently! It works on the beta.arc.com.au but doesn't work on the arc.prettymad.net What in the world is going on here!! Argh!!! HELP! Mariusz Our company accepts no liability for the content of this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. 2/5/2004 www.comra.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] A tip on using multiple CSS classes
Lea de Groot wrote: But I'm happy to bow to your greater knowledge :) Bow to the mighty Russ-o-tron, puny Earthling! ;o] -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Org Charts
After reading all the reply's that have happened in the past 2 days, the first thing that came to mind was Oh God, what have I started with this question? :-) I was looking at the SVG stuff at the W3.org site. And yes, my mind was blown away. It's definitly not something that I can pick up and put even a outline in place in a few hours/days. Today, as I was examining the possibility of other solutions, I saw that Macromedia Flash is suppose to have some accessability capabilities (of course using a flash enabled screen reader). My queston is, how well does it work. I don't have a screen reader, so I don't have any way to test this, or hear it in action. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peters Micheal A Contr GSI/SCBN Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 1:57 PM To: Web Standards Group Mailing List Subject: [WSG] Org Charts Does anybody have some good examples of proper HTML and good css for a Org charts. Actually the semantically correct HTML just layers of unordered lists, and the corresponding List Items. I'm just having trouble visualizing how I need to construct the CSS under it to get the visually preferred tree structure. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May
Is the Melbourne meeting really May 3? (like it says on the web site) If so, it snuck up quick! -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode / MS runs W3C?
Microsoft is indeed a major contributor to the World Wide Web Consortium, but the W3C is an independent organization. Financial and technical contributions come from a wide variety of industry sources. Microsoft certainly DOESN'T call the shots at the W3C. You should never think of IE as "the worst browser out there". Internet Explorer was one of the first web browsers to include support for Cascading Style Sheets. IE5 for the Mac has revolutionary support. IE6.0/Win is actually an excellent browser, with good support for most of CSS1 and a large proportion of CSS2. Most IE frustration is caused by the need for web designers to support earlier versions of IE (5.0 and 5.5), and the lack of updates to the existing client. Microsoft's dominant market position creates a condition where browser enhancements and innovation are not very important. The need for native PNG alpha transparency support, full support for position:fixed, and other similar things DO frustrate designers; however, we must be thankful that IE6 is as good as it is. Remember, it was not all that long ago that the "worst browser out there" was Netscape Navigator 4.x. For too long, web designers were forced to accomodate this truly awful abomination. Thankfully, its market share now barely registers on the browser stats charts. Simon Jessey--mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web : http://jessey.net/blog/work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: Chris Stratford To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode Ok thanks guys!That cleared up my curiosity for the day!btw another thing...I have been told by someone that the W3C is controlled by MS.Which I thought was total crap since IE is the worst browser out there...I know that MS dontated a lot of tech to W3C... is there any validity to my friends suggestion??
RE: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode / MS runs W3C?
AMEN Brother! Thanks for saying it. Kinda gets lonely out on this limb... (sorry for the content-free reply) P From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon JesseySent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:56 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode / MS runs W3C? Microsoft is indeed a major contributor to the World Wide Web Consortium, but the W3C is an independent organization. Financial and technical contributions come from a wide variety of industry sources. Microsoft certainly DOESN'T call the shots at the W3C. You should never think of IE as "the worst browser out there". Internet Explorer was one of the first web browsers to include support for Cascading Style Sheets. IE5 for the Mac has revolutionary support. IE6.0/Win is actually an excellent browser, with good support for most of CSS1 and a large proportion of CSS2. Most IE frustration is caused by the need for web designers to support earlier versions of IE (5.0 and 5.5), and the lack of updates to the existing client. Microsoft's dominant market position creates a condition where browser enhancements and innovation are not very important. The need for native PNG alpha transparency support, full support for position:fixed, and other similar things DO frustrate designers; however, we must be thankful that IE6 is as good as it is. Remember, it was not all that long ago that the "worst browser out there" was Netscape Navigator 4.x. For too long, web designers were forced to accomodate this truly awful abomination. Thankfully, its market share now barely registers on the browser stats charts. Simon Jessey--mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web : http://jessey.net/blog/work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: Chris Stratford To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode Ok thanks guys!That cleared up my curiosity for the day!btw another thing...I have been told by someone that the W3C is controlled by MS.Which I thought was total crap since IE is the worst browser out there...I know that MS dontated a lot of tech to W3C... is there any validity to my friends suggestion??
RE: [WSG] Org Charts
Sorry about the duplicate posts. We've been having some strange e-mail issues the last day or 2 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] MS runs W3C?
But you have to agree that at the moment, the state of IE5 and IE6 is bad... I'm not sure I do really. I have copies of IE5, 5.5, and 6.0 on my PC for development purposes. I find that (within reason) I am able to create cross-browser layouts and designs without much difficulty. It is true that there are times when I must resort to the odd hack or two, but I keep that down to a minimum. IE5.x is a pain, but IE6 is actually pretty darn good for an old timer. The thought of Firefox (my browser of choice) having a dominant market share is somewhat unsettling at the moment, because it is still very much in development. I'll be much happier with that concept once it has had it's 1.0 "stable" release. It is worth noting, by the way, that the excellent work of Dean Edwards* may alleviate your IE5.5/6.0 problems. IE5 support is coming soon. * http://www.dean.edwards.name/IE7/ Simon Jessey--mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web : http://jessey.net/blog/work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: Chris Stratford Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode / MS runs W3C? WowFlamed :)When I said the worst browser.At the moment, in my eyes - IE is the worst thing to happen to webdevelopment.Imagine if FireFox had the margin share...I know IE started a revolution and the browser wars... and it won...I admit - I use IE a lot more than anyother brower.But thats only because 80% of my most frequented websites dont load as expected in FireFox or Netscape...But you have to agree that at the moment, the state of IE5 and IE6 is bad...IE5 doesnt load CSS half as well as you would hope...IE6 is laden with bugs that have plagued webdevs, and forced hacks and work arounds for the last few years!I wish IE would either upgrade...or get out of the majority of marketshare...
[WSG] evangelism : Icon article (Sydney Morning Herald) promoting the modern browser
Hi all Great to see an article in this weekend's Icon promoting the modern browser, with a few salient words about our popular friend. Link http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/30/1083224574998.html This thread is not a discussion on browser merits but is about promoting the tools that support the code we write. Icon is definitely mainstream media for the Mums and Dads out there - pushing the good stuff to the people that matter. Cheers James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Images inside a div class with specified link style
How do I prevent link styles from showing on the images that are positioned
inside a div class with specified link style? An example below.
div class=aCol
Content text here Content text here Content text here Content text here
div class=divRight
a href=#img src=top.gif alt=Back to top of the page width=30
height=10 //a
/div
/div
.aCol a
{
color : #AE0D2D;
text-decoration : none;
border-bottom : 1px dashed #90AAAB;
}
I have tried doing..
.divRight img a
{
border-bottom : none;
}
and
.aCol img a
{
border-bottom : none;
}
..obviously weren't right so they didn't work :P
In the end I cheated by doing this:
div class=aCol
Content text here Content text here Content text here Content text here
/div
div class=divRight
a href=#img src=top.gif alt=Back to top of the page width=30
height=10 //a
/div
Feel bad cheating without knowing why it can't be solved...
Best Wishes,
Jaime ...
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
RE: [WSG] MS runs W3C?
Speaking of Dean Edwards work, are conditional comments Valid HTML or just another MS HTML'ism? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon JesseySent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:10 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] MS runs W3C? It is worth noting, by the way, that the excellent work of Dean Edwards* may alleviate your IE5.5/6.0 problems. IE5 support is coming soon. * http://www.dean.edwards.name/IE7/ Simon Jessey--mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web : http://jessey.net/blog/work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: Chris Stratford Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode / MS runs W3C? WowFlamed :)When I said the worst browser.At the moment, in my eyes - IE is the worst thing to happen to webdevelopment.Imagine if FireFox had the margin share...I know IE started a revolution and the browser wars... and it won...I admit - I use IE a lot more than anyother brower.But thats only because 80% of my most frequented websites dont load as expected in FireFox or Netscape...But you have to agree that at the moment, the state of IE5 and IE6 is bad...IE5 doesnt load CSS half as well as you would hope...IE6 is laden with bugs that have plagued webdevs, and forced hacks and work arounds for the last few years!I wish IE would either upgrade...or get out of the majority of marketshare...
Re: [WSG] Images inside a div class with specified link style
.divRight a
{
border-bottom : none;
}
Your code was looking for an a element nested inside an image!
If there are other links in .divRight boxes that you want the border
applied to, you'll need to apply a different class to the a element
surrounding the image.
Patrick Griffiths (PTG)
http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/
http://www.htmldog.com
How do I prevent link styles from showing on the images that are
positioned
inside a div class with specified link style? An example below.
div class=aCol
Content text here Content text here Content text here Content text
here
div class=divRight
a href=#img src=top.gif alt=Back to top of the page
width=30
height=10 //a
/div
/div
.aCol a
{
color : #AE0D2D;
text-decoration : none;
border-bottom : 1px dashed #90AAAB;
}
I have tried doing..
.divRight img a
{
border-bottom : none;
}
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
*
Re: [WSG] MS runs W3C?
In an old article* I wrote about trying to recreate frames with CSS, I used IE's conditional comments to get around the problems it has with position: fixed. The article validates: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fjessey.net%2Fsimon%2Farticles%2F007.html * http://jessey.net/simon/articles/007.html Simon Jessey--mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web : http://jessey.net/blog/work: http://keystonewebsites.com/ - Original Message - From: Peters Micheal A Contr GSI/SCBN To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] MS runs W3C? Speaking of Dean Edwards work, are conditional comments Valid HTML or just another MS HTML'ism?
[WSG] Using span
Hi List! Ever since I've been using the standards approach to web design, I've never used spans at all. What's the point of using them? Thanks for your input! Gabriel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.673 / Virus Database: 435 - Release Date: 5/1/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Using span
Hi Gabriel, Spans are inline elements, that is, they can be used, for instance, to highlight a area within another element, i.e. to change the colour of a few words to enhance a look. Divs are block level elements, effectively describing and enclosing a logical block, a menu structure for instance. Divs can contain spans but not vice-versa. Hope this helps, Mike Pepper www.seowebsitepromotion.com www.gawds.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gabriel Vasquez Sent: 02 May 2004 20:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Using span Hi List! Ever since I've been using the standards approach to web design, I've never used spans at all. What's the point of using them? Thanks for your input! Gabriel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.673 / Virus Database: 435 - Release Date: 5/1/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Using span
Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi List! Ever since I've been using the standards approach to web design, I've never used spans at all. What's the point of using them? Thanks for your input! Gabriel --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.673 / Virus Database: 435 - Release Date: 5/1/2004 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * Well, span is an inline element. You can use it for describing words or pieces of text that don't nessecerily have to consist of an entire block. p span id=presidentGeorge W. Bush/span is the president of the span id=countryUnited States/span. /p Granted, there are many inline elements for specific purposes (code, pre, q, etc), but it's best to keep things semantic as this is, in essence, XML. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] A tip on using multiple CSS classes
Lea de Groot wrote:
It has to be used carefully, however.
If we had
foo {
border: 1px solid black;
}
.bar {
border: 2px dashed red;
}
class=foo bar
then it is undefined which has greter specifity (sp?)
Both have the same specifity.
The last one overrides the first one.
--
Kristof
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Re: [WSG] Using span
Ever since I've been using the standards approach to web design, I've never used spans at all. What's the point of using them? In addition to what Mike wrote, they, like divs, can be used as hooks for style rules. In other words, if there is something which you wish to style, but there isn't any exsisting tag which includes exactly the right amout--no more and no less--you would use a span for inlines and a div for blocks. Mordechai * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Using span
Thank you for clearing that up Mike and Noa, I appreciate it! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Images inside a div class with specified link style
Thanks Patrick
So there is no other way besides making an extra div just for images with
links? : Trying to prevent from creating more divs.
Best Wishes,
Jaime ...
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Griffiths
Sent: Monday, 3 May 2004 12:25 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Images inside a div class with specified link style
.divRight a
{
border-bottom : none;
}
Your code was looking for an a element nested inside an image!
If there are other links in .divRight boxes that you want the border
applied to, you'll need to apply a different class to the a element
surrounding the image.
Patrick Griffiths (PTG)
http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/
http://www.htmldog.com
How do I prevent link styles from showing on the images that are
positioned
inside a div class with specified link style? An example below.
div class=aCol
Content text here Content text here Content text here Content text
here
div class=divRight
a href=#img src=top.gif alt=Back to top of the page
width=30
height=10 //a
/div
/div
.aCol a
{
color : #AE0D2D;
text-decoration : none;
border-bottom : 1px dashed #90AAAB;
}
I have tried doing..
.divRight img a
{
border-bottom : none;
}
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Re: [WSG] Request: Is it semantically correct?
This new example is much cleaner code - less divs etc. However, it is hard to tell if it is semantically correct without real content inside. Some may disagree, but I would have to say at present it looks like it is pushing the DL slightly more than it should as there does not seem to be a direct relationship between the dt and the dd. 'Others believe that definition lists can be used to tie together any items that have a direct relationship with each other (name/value sets).' http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/ I think the paragraph is the thing that breaks the direct relationship for me is it's between the heading and the list. This example works as a DL: dtFruitdt ddpeardd ddappledd ddbananadd This example does not seem to work as well, as the paragraph interrupts the direct relationship. dtFruit/dt dd pHere is some fruit/p ul lipear/li liapple/li libanana/li /ul /dd Of course, it all comes down to personal opinion! What do others reckon? Russ Russ, I have followed your advice regarding the use of divs and classes... Do you think using dl for this could be better? I've tried and attained the same result using dl and only one class, see: http://cb2web.com/tests/testboxmodel3.htm Could it be connsidered more correct? Does the bug you noticed remains? CSS: http://cb2web.com/tests/coolboxes3.css Thank you! Carlos * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May
Hey Cameron, that's exactly what I was thinking... where did the last 2 months go. See you tonight. woric - Original Message - From: Cameron Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 2:14 AM Subject: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May Is the Melbourne meeting really May 3? (like it says on the web site) If so, it snuck up quick! -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May
Cameron, Yes, the meeting is tonight! Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 09:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Is the Melbourne meeting really May 3? (like it says on the web site) If so, it snuck up quick! -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Request: Is it semantically correct?
I see your point Russ. I need to use it for something like: dl dtStatistics - Europe/dt dd pNumber of women for 100 men(1995):/p ul liEurope: 105 women for 100 men/li liWorld: 98,6 women for 100 men/li /ul pPercentage of girls and boys of less than 15 years old (1995):/p ul liEastern Europe: 22% of girls for 24% of boys/li liWestern Europe: 19% of girls for 21% of boys/li /ul pFertility Rate of 15-19 years old women (1990-95):/p ul liEastern Europe: 48 births for 1000 women/li liWestern Europe: 22 births for 1000 women/li /ul /dd /dl (see the example at http://cb2web.com/tests/testboxmodel3.htm) Of course, it is tabular data. The point is that I am trying to avoid tables in a narrow side-column of a 3-column layout. Opinion? - Original Message - From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Web Standards Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Request: Is it semantically correct? This new example is much cleaner code - less divs etc. However, it is hard to tell if it is semantically correct without real content inside. Some may disagree, but I would have to say at present it looks like it is pushing the DL slightly more than it should as there does not seem to be a direct relationship between the dt and the dd. 'Others believe that definition lists can be used to tie together any items that have a direct relationship with each other (name/value sets).' http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/ I think the paragraph is the thing that breaks the direct relationship for me is it's between the heading and the list. This example works as a DL: dtFruitdt ddpeardd ddappledd ddbananadd This example does not seem to work as well, as the paragraph interrupts the direct relationship. dtFruit/dt dd pHere is some fruit/p ul lipear/li liapple/li libanana/li /ul /dd Of course, it all comes down to personal opinion! What do others reckon? Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
That site is admittedly terrible. It has no navigation on the frontpage in Firefox for Win either However, it is not indicative of all Australian government sites. I recently discovered http://www.immi.gov.au when a client cited its previous design (it has been redesigned to conform with the new system that seems to be going into place) as brilliant, unreal and just how I want my site to look. So, I took a look, I was horrified by the navy blue buttons on a deep red background and other similar shockers, but I persevered to discover that the entire site validated XHTML 1.0 Strict (well, the homepage and two or three others I tested. All three CSS files validated as well. The only problem I had with the site were the terrible flyout Javascript menus Having visited again (just to check) before telling you folks, I found a redesign which looks significantly better. This time around it is one error short of passing XHTML 1.0 Strict and both CSS files pass. It still has the horrible JS though http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.immi.gov.au/ http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http://www.immi.gov.au/includes/styles/flyout.css http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http://www.immi.gov.au/includes/styles/homepage.css Still, it is nice to know that someone out there is trying! Cheers, Lachlan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] New CSS Class
I begin teaching an introductory CSS course this week. The class material
is posted on my Web site:
http://members.aol.com/jbjtutor/css/ . I would welcome feedback of any sort
on any aspect of what you see, but I think that we should do this off-list.
So, if you take the time to look, please email me with your comments:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
A couple of words about me and about the course to provide some perspective..
Me: I am not a CSS expert. I may never be. What I am is a teacher with more
than thirty-five years' experience. I have been working with computers
since the early '80s; have written a couple of books on computer topics as
well as a couple of computer-related articles.
The course: Although I call the class an introduction to CSS, I think I
cover all the important bases -- but not with any great depth. My students
-- all of whom for this maiden voyage have taken my HTML course -- know
that I am not an expert; I tell them that early on. And few of these
students will pursue careers as professional Web developers. Most are just
civilians who want to know more about how the Web works. (One student in
my HTML class was an 82-year-old who just likes to learn.)
I teach the course in a public library as a volunteer. The workstations in
the tech training room we use provide IE/Win 6; screen resolution is 1024 x
768. (At my request, the tech guy at the library has installed Mozilla 1.6
so that we can make some comparisons and so that the students can learn
about and use { position: fixed }). With this narrowly constrained
audience, I deal with neither the cross-browser issues nor the screen
resolution issues nor the less-than-full-screen-display issues in either
the instructional pages or in the instructional material itself -- although
I make certain that the students are aware of these issues.
To help fill in the gaps, the course material includes a reference page
which lists several books and Web sites. In addition, I have posted my
yet-to-be-organized-and-annotated CSS bookmark list on my Web site.
I hope some of you will have both the time and the interest to take a look.
Thanks.
Jay Gerard
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Re: [WSG] Request: Is it semantically correct?
A table would be perfectly semantically correct, and I dont see why it would make a difference to the width, but if you want to do it table free, I would prefer something like this: hnStatistics - Europe/hn dl dtNumber of women for 100 men(1995):/dt ddEurope: 105 women for 100 men/dd ddWorld: 98,6 women for 100 men/dd dtPercentage of girls and boys of less than 15 years old (1995):/dt ddEastern Europe: 22% of girls for 24% of boys/dd ddWestern Europe: 19% of girls for 21% of boys/dd dtFertility Rate of 15-19 years old women (1990-95):/dt ddEastern Europe: 48 births for 1000 women/dd ddWestern Europe: 22 births for 1000 women/dd /dl (thats what I'd do - mind you, this is the 30-second take as I am being called for breakfast!) Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XML Includes?
wouldnt you need to use the xml doctype if your using xml ?
or the xml prologue as its called.?
Heyas,
Still finding my feet with XHTML / CSS. I noticed that in Mozilla (well
through Eric Meyers new book) you can introduce your own tags (ie XML)
and basically in many ways can attach CSS to them (much like you would
with a simple old DIV)
In Internet Explorer this isn't the case? it ignores the tags / css?
eg:
window
titlebarmycontent/titlebar
contentmycontent/content
/window
style
window {
display:block;
left: 200px;
top: 200px;
width: 200px;
height: 200px;
border: 1px solid red;
background-color: yellow;
}
/style
Simple example, works great in Mozilla FireFox (heh go Mozilla) but
fails in IE? I'm using the doctype:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd;
with:
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; lang=en-US xml:lang=en-US
Anyone care to comment?
--
Regards,
Scott Barnes
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Benjamin
Life through a polaroid
www.lifethroughapolaroid.com
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Re: [WSG] CSS: writing-mode / MS runs W3C?
On Sun, 2004-05-02 at 23:55, Simon Jessey wrote: Microsoft's dominant market position creates a condition where browser enhancements and innovation are not very important. Sorry I must disagree. These _are_ important, not just to designers, but to all people who experience web pages on the Internet. Microsoft's position creates a condition where they could suppress and control enhancement and innovation. Simple fact is that IE doesn't make M$ money, its actually lost them more money than any other application. M$ are well known for subverting standards to protect their market share. This is the only reason why they have their fingers in the W3C pie. M$ are quite happy with the current situation. IE6 has major share and the fact that it lacks features is not greatly know by the average person, a fact that Microsoft are very happy with. I agree it is debatable that the average person might not find these features as important and you and I. This in itself is not an acceptable reason for not abiding by standards. The only thing _we_ can do is to continue educating people about the importance of web standards, eventually, ( and I believe this is already happening ) Microsoft might just sit up and take notice. The real issue is, Microsoft have the power, resources and money to free these features to the world and truth be told they don't care... Regards Chris Blown * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Request: Is it semantically correct?
Of course, it all comes down to personal opinion! What do others reckon? I suppose it really depends on what is trying to be achieved. To my way of thinking, the clean dtdd combination is more semantically correct. For me the ulli seem to throw the semantics out a little - moreso than the p. Even though I can see it is a list of fruit. If the p were in the dt instead of the dd would that improve the semantics more? (seeing the content is talking about fruit generically rather than specifically?) Then. what about styling? Does the list need bullets next to it? Do all browsers support the ability to bullet anything? Are bullets on any item part of the W3C CSS standard (I'm asking cause I dont know it all back to front)? You can do a lot with CSS - but you can only really work with the blocks you have created. Putting the p in the dt block may mean you have to use some horrid positioning to get it where you want it (for example) OR vice versa. BUT. maybe that is what you need to do semantically (i.e. remove the p altogether and position it separately). For me it always comes back to this You understand the standards and known how to use them - then there is 'getting the job done' In my case, the latter always takes precedence over the standards because, in the end, I have to get the job done and meet the requirements (in spite of standards). Gary Menzel Web Development Manager IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000 PH: 07 333 44 828 FX: 07 3834 0828 To unsubscribe from this email please forward this email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient of this email you are prohibited by law from dealing with or relying on the email or any file attachments. This prohibition includes reading, printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, storing or in any other way dealing or acting in reliance on the information. If you have received this email in error, we request you contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated with notifying ABN AMRO Morgans. This email is confidential and may contain privileged client information. ABN AMRO Morgans has taken reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but accepts no liability for materials transmitted. Materials may also be transmitted without the knowledge of ABN AMRO Morgans. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited its directors and employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not on the basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates hold or may hold securities in the companies/trusts mentioned herein. Any recommendation is made on the basis of our research of the investment and may not suit the specific requirements of clients. Assessments of suitability to an individual?s portfolio can only be made after an examination of the particular client?s investments, financial circumstances and requirements. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited (ABN 49 010 669 726 AFSL 235410) A Participant of ASX Group * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] SMH launch
sorry, bit late, re my question of any ideasof a way to make these browsers keep the background image aligned hard left and not adversly affect anything else? (on http://smh.com.au/) and Justins alternative ideas: Alternative #1"attach the background image to something other than the body (like #wrap)"i wouldve - but the layout that we settled on has the left and right columns "position:absolute" for a few other reasons so when the left or right cols are longer than the centre column, the background doesnt tile all the way to the bottom of the page. tried various methods of adding a height to the #wrap but all options seemed to have a 'gotcha' :) (a bad side effect) Alternative #2"perhaps the line effect you're trying to achieve can be done some other way, negating the need for the image at all"for reasons related to the above absolutely positioned columns, a background image was the only way to go Alternative #3"Ignore what's happening, and put a solid white background behind that left nav bar, so that when the BG image goes under, it doesn't obstruct the navigation."bingo. actually made this change last thurs after yr email made the bg the same colour as the nav (light grey - actually, get this, its #F2F2F2, as in,F2 is where i work :)that degrades much better for opera and mac ie now. thanks again Justin. thats 2 for 2 ;-)cheers,petePeter OtteryHead of Designf2 Network(02) 8596 4450[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.f2.com.au On 29/04/2004, at 1:27 PM, Peter Ottery wrote: when we launched theage.com.au last week Justin pointed outa way (adding 1px padding to the left of the main "#wrap" div) to make Firefox keep the background image aligned hard left with the content when your browser window was narrower than the content - and stopped the background image becoming mis-aligned with the content. Even tho that fixed it in Firefox the problem still exists in Opera and mac ie. Heres a screenshot of the new smh site with a browser window set narrower than the content (note the body bg mis-aligned with the left nav): http://www.c41.com.au/test/opera7_2_squished.jpg any ideasof a way to make these browsers keep the background image aligned hard left and not adversly affect anything else? pete
[WSG] A little OT
I'm back from my first vacation this year ( Ill be going again soon ) and I'm glad to see the list got along just find without me, so I'll sit down and read all 544 WSG messages (14 days worth ) But don't expect any replies because by now they are old news. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
