Re: [WSG] web accessibility toolbar
Hi there, I ask the question partly tongue-in-cheek, but it does make me wonder iftools such as this should be the butt of responsibility? No, I'd say tools like this are workarounds for the failings of the native browser. You certainly can't start using pixels for sizing just because a user *could* go and install a third party toolbar (even it if it is NILS' excellent WAT :)). Basically, my view is that everyone remains responsible for their part of the puzzle. Rather than write at length, I'll be a little cheeky and point to http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2005/04/whos-responsible.html which I wrote in response to a related topic here :) I just wondered, as it does seem to put the pixel argument into adifferent perspective. It alleviates the problem, but realistically I still think designers are better off using relative units - personally I favour the EMs + %-on-the-body combination. If you can use the best-practice method to produce the results you want, there's no reason to use pixels. Eventually you should be able to use whatever unit of measurement you like, but until then we are stuck with most IE users (and hence most *users*) being unable to resize pixel-sized pages. cheers, h-- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/--- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
Re: [WSG] web accessibility toolbar
heretic wrote: It alleviates the problem, but realistically I still think designers are better off using relative units Just as a matter of clarification: pixels *are* a relative unit http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/syndata.html#length-units However, they're relative to the screen resolution, rather than being relative to the viewport dimensions or the user's preferred font size. -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Two column left navigation
I have a web site with a left navigation system consisting of images and text in 2 columns. The image is displayed on the left, with the text link to the right of it. At the moment this is displayed using a table. What would be the best way to display this without using tables, i.e. with a couple of divs for each image and text pair? The width of the container is fixed (at 220px), and the size of the left images is 100px. Thanks, Stephen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Two column left navigation
G'day
I have a web site with a left navigation system consisting of images
and text in 2 columns.
The image is displayed on the left, with the text link to the right of
it.
...
The width of the container is fixed (at 220px), and the size of the
left images is 100px.
Why not use a simple (unordered) list? Since (as I read it) all the
images are the same size (width AND height?) you can float the image
left. Something like:
ul#nav li { height: 100px; } /* add whatever else you need */
ul#nav img { float:left; width:100px; height:100px; }
Regards
--
Bert Doorn, Better Web Design
http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/
Fast-loading, user-friendly websites
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Designing for printing
Should I be trying to accommodate A5 printouts, or smaller printouts than the norm, and if so in what way? Ideally, yes, and by not using fixed widths. Otherwise, no, because it'd be way too much work. :-P
RE: [WSG] Designing for printing
Stevio wrote How far do you go with designing for printing? Is there a particular reason that you are allowing printing of the navigation elements? Unless they add value to the printed page they can all be hidden using a print media style sheet. As for users printing on A5, unless you have specific knowledge that that is the size your users _will_ be printing at then I see no need to prepare for anything other than the _standard_ A4/letter sheet sizes. Regards Scott Swabey Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Designing for printing
How far do you go with designing for printing? I usually make sure my pages print ok on A4 (210mm by 297mm). For the web site I'm currently working on, I will make some adjustments using a print stylesheet to ensure this works ok. My web site is basically a two column design with the navigation column floated to the left. However, if the user decides to print onto A5, which is only 148 x 210mm, then the right side main content div will jump down below the left hand float because of the width (it includes images), and the print out will look really strange. Should I be trying to accommodate A5 printouts, or smaller printouts than the norm, and if so in what way? Stephen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Two column left navigation
Hi Kenny, That almost works, except the text of my links is more than one line long and wraps onto the next line. When it wraps, the 2nd line wraps underneath the image for some reason. Any suggestions? Stephen - Original Message - From: Kenny Graham To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Two column left navigation http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/index.htmlhttp://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/style.css At the moment this is displayed using a table. What would be the best way todisplay this without using tables, i.e. with a couple of divs for each imageand text pair? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/2005
Re: [WSG] Two column left navigation
http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/index.html http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/style.css At the moment this is displayed using a table. What would be the best way to display this without using tables, i.e. with a couple of divs for each image and text pair?
Re: [WSG] Two column left navigation
Seems the list filtered out my last response (probably thought it was spam) so this time I'll include text along with the links. Is this what you want?: http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/index.html and the css: http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/style.css
Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE
From: Rebecca Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:46 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE Nasty - I've had this happen too;o. I think we picked one as it was OK to do either min or max width but not both. See if this page presents a solution: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/minmax/cssp.htm Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE [test/FYI]
Al Sparber wrote: See if this page presents a solution: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/minmax/cssp.htm Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Al: I gave this a whirl on IE5.2/mac. The page continues compacting past where it should (I set it at 600px), then it reloads and pops back, and holds at 600px, but with a 100% width (rather than the 85% width specified for my page). Better than nothing, though! Wendy ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE [IE crash FYI]
Hi all, On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! Just tested with my NT 5 (w2k sp4) + IE6 and it really crashes when trying to access any page via the top menu. [extract below from David Hucklesby's post 30/08/2005 10:48] Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- http://www.da-code.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
nested table web site example was:RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE [IE crash FYI]
Wowser Da-Code person Your site is certainly artistic but ouch, you need to convert that thing to standards-based. I'm sure it's probably the cobbler's son going barefoot, but at least change your alt attributes to something more appropriate. Use alt= instead of alt=image. Look at the oft-mentioned sprite essay on alistapart for the nav and consider the disjointed rollovers via stopdesign or andy budd? I like the visuals but I'd like to see what your imagination could do with CSS instead of nested tables. I hope this doesn't sound too negative, I was just surprised to see it on this mailinglist. Ted Fairness statement I really shouldn't be talking. I just remembered this old site that I still haven't removed: www.sdco-op.com/drake Hi all, On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! Just tested with my NT 5 (w2k sp4) + IE6 and it really crashes when trying to access any page via the top menu. -- http://www.da-code.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element
I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus. Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to the right (absolutely positioned). HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/ CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them. The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box is relatively positioned. If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is ul.navigation-primary. HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending code doesn't repair the problem. Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free the little grey boxes from IE opression? Thanks! Scott Reston Raleigh, NC [1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element
I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus. Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to the right (absolutely positioned). HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/ CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them. The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box is relatively positioned. If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is ul.navigation-primary. HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending code doesn't repair the problem. Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free the little grey boxes from IE opression? Thanks! Scott Reston Raleigh, NC [1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] (sorry about the double post!) EOM
** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element
Hi Scott I don't have an immediate answer for your problem, but I would like to suggest some more vertical padding on your lists. I found it difficult to keep focus on the links as I tried to go from second to third level. Perhaps if the link was taller it would be easier for the mouse. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of scott reston Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus. Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to the right (absolutely positioned). HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/ CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them. The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box is relatively positioned. If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is ul.navigation-primary. HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending code doesn't repair the problem. Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free the little grey boxes from IE opression? Thanks! Scott Reston Raleigh, NC [1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Two column left navigation
In that case: http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/index2.html style: http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/wsg/stevio/style2.css
Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE [test/FYI]
From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Al Sparber wrote: See if this page presents a solution: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/minmax/cssp.htm Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Al: I gave this a whirl on IE5.2/mac. The page continues compacting past where it should (I set it at 600px), then it reloads and pops back, and holds at 600px, but with a 100% width (rather than the 85% width specified for my page). Better than nothing, though! Hi Wendy, On most helper scripts we no longer support IE5 Mac. It is just too buggy and old - beyond salvage as they say in certain circles :-) In the real world, it's just not relevant anymore and our feeling is that if we get the content and navigation accessible in that browser, we've scored a major victory ;-) Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE
Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today... David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm... Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is turned off... will be doing something about that!! Thanks, Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Hi Rachael, Although some may not agree with this method because of the need for multiple div wrappers, the solution at http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width2.html I think is great because it appears to work in IE5+, doesn't require any javascript and works in standards compliant browsers that understand the min-width CSS property. Best Regards, Ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today... David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm... Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is turned off... will be doing something about that!! Thanks, Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1203 (20050827) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. http://www.nod32.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Hi Rachael, Although some may not agree with this method because of the need for multiple div wrappers, the solution at http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width2.html I think is great because it appears to work in IE5+, doesn't require any javascript and works in standards compliant browsers that understand the min-width CSS property. Best Regards, Ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today... David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm... Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is turned off... will be doing something about that!! Thanks, Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1203 (20050827) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. http://www.nod32.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Hi Rachael, Although some may not agree with this method because of the need for multiple div wrappers, the solution at http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width2.html I think is great because it appears to work in IE5+, doesn't require any javascript and works in standards compliant browsers that understand the min-width CSS property. Best Regards, Ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today... David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm... Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is turned off... will be doing something about that!! Thanks, Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1203 (20050827) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. http://www.nod32.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Hi Rachael, Although some may not agree with this method because of the need for multiple div wrappers, the solution at http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width2.html I think is great because it appears to work in IE5+, doesn't require any javascript and works in standards compliant browsers that understand the min-width CSS property. Best Regards, Ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today... David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm... Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is turned off... will be doing something about that!! Thanks, Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1203 (20050827) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. http://www.nod32.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript
Thanks Ryan, that's a great article - I love Stu Nichols stuff! But not sure how I would implement it as it is only applied on the menu items which are list-items...? But for now I have made it a fixed width - it's stopped the crashing, looks okay. Only sacrifice is that at 800 by 600 the last navigation item is dropping onto another line and looks funny. Thanks everyone for your help, suggestions and feedback. Rach :0) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Blunden Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 11:55 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE - no javascript Hi Rachael, Although some may not agree with this method because of the need for multiple div wrappers, the solution at http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/width2.html I think is great because it appears to work in IE5+, doesn't require any javascript and works in standards compliant browsers that understand the min-width CSS property. Best Regards, Ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:01 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE Thanks everyone for your reply, I'll try each option today... David - these are HTML 4.0 pages because of the content management it is running off... so it doesn't seem to be just an XHTML problem. Hmmm... Irina - thanks for pointing out the background stuff when javascript is turned off... will be doing something about that!! Thanks, Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 5:49 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! We have figured out that it is a bit of Javascript making it crash this bit of Javascript mimicks the CSS min-max behaviour that is needed for the navigation and for some images that have captions underneath them such as the one on the home page. Hi Rachel, We observed the same problem in my web class. I have reason to believe that this only happens on XHTML documents. At least, one document I had coded as HTML 4 strict did not have this problem. This may not be a viable solution for you, but you may like to give it a try. Seems to be an IE6 on Win XP SP2 problem only. Again, I may be wrong. Needs testing. BTW - IE did not exactly crash for us - it simply locked up. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 8/30/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1203 (20050827) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. http://www.nod32.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] How do I combat extra padding?
I had to create a table for this piece of our templates but am finding that firefox, netscape 7 and opera are adding extra padding under the images in the top row of cells. So far my fix has been to give our mozilla stylesheet margin-bottom: -4px for these images which has worked but I would like to know why firefox, netscape and opera are adding the extra padding. Code: http://www.sgi.com/tempie/ Stylesheet: http://www.sgi.com/tempie/styles.css Thank you, Janelle ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
Hi all, I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. The only fix I've come up with is to set the last 2 nodes to fly left, but I'd rather make the page background stay put without altering my nav. Cheers, Craig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] How do I combat extra padding?
I just tested out Bert's solution, and it works. Set vertical align of the images to bottom. Very nice to know, thanks Bert. :)
RE: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
I can't seem to duplicate your problem in either FF or IE Works fine for me. Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Stump Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:10 PM To: WSG Group Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image Hi all, I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. The only fix I've come up with is to set the last 2 nodes to fly left, but I'd rather make the page background stay put without altering my nav. Cheers, Craig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
-Original Message- From: Craig Stump [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 11:10 AM To: WSG Group Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image Hi all, I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. I am actually not sure which background image you mean, but it sounds to me that if the image tries to remain centered, a simple background-position:top left; Should fix it? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
Make sure you shrink the browser width down so that the flyouts would cause vertical scrollbars. On 8/31/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't seem to duplicate your problem in either FF or IE Works fine for me. Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Stump Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:10 PM To: WSG Group Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image Hi all, I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. The only fix I've come up with is to set the last 2 nodes to fly left, but I'd rather make the page background stay put without altering my nav. Cheers, Craig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Craig Stump Bluesix M: 0403 290 430 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://bluesix.com.au This email (including any attachments) is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. It contains information that may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the addressee, or you have received this email by mistake, you must not disclose, copy or distribute it or use the information contained in it (or any attachments) in any way. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
Seems fine here in FF on Mac. The flyouts cause a horizontal toolbar to appear which makes the vertical one increase, but no jumping backgrounds. Damian Make sure you shrink the browser width down so that the flyouts would cause vertical scrollbars. I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. The only fix I've come up with is to set the last 2 nodes to fly left, but I'd rather make the page background stay put without altering my nav. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] (sorry about the double post!) EOM
On 8/30/05 12:25 PM scott reston [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: And now you've made it a triple. We all understand this happens. Don't apologize. Rick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
Here's a screenshot of what I'm experiencing http://media.compliance.org.au/data/jumpy_bkg.gif Note that you also need to have the page set to the centered layout for it to happen. On 8/31/05, Damian Sweeney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems fine here in FF on Mac. The flyouts cause a horizontal toolbar to appear which makes the vertical one increase, but no jumping backgrounds. Damian Make sure you shrink the browser width down so that the flyouts would cause vertical scrollbars. I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. The only fix I've come up with is to set the last 2 nodes to fly left, but I'd rather make the page background stay put without altering my nav. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Craig Stump Bluesix M: 0403 290 430 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: http://bluesix.com.au This email (including any attachments) is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. It contains information that may be confidential and legally privileged. If you are not the addressee, or you have received this email by mistake, you must not disclose, copy or distribute it or use the information contained in it (or any attachments) in any way. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Opera giving away registration codes today
Hi folks, For those who can't afford it, or refuse to pay it, or just want to try it add-free for free (eek, try saying that fast 3 times), Opera are giving away free registration (Mac, PC and other OSs) for today only. http://my.opera.com/community/party/reg.dml My apologies if this incurs the wrath of admins (is this advertising?), but I thought some people might benefit and want to know. regards, sunny.
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
G'day Here's a screenshot of what I'm experiencing http://media.compliance.org.au/data/jumpy_bkg.gif Note that you also need to have the page set to the centered layout for it to happen. Uhmmm. What do you mean with have the page set to the centered layout? Is this some obscure browser option or plug-in? I do get the jumping horizontal scrollbar, which is a direct effect of the content expanding with the long text on submenu items. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
There's a js style switcher on the page at the top right for those with better ideas than mine: How about moving the background image info from the body to the #container in layout-centre.css? Damian G'day Here's a screenshot of what I'm experiencing http://media.compliance.org.au/data/jumpy_bkg.gif Note that you also need to have the page set to the centered layout for it to happen. Uhmmm. What do you mean with have the page set to the centered layout? Is this some obscure browser option or plug-in? I do get the jumping horizontal scrollbar, which is a direct effect of the content expanding with the long text on submenu items. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
