[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
Thanks for your email. I will be out of the office from 13 August until 1 September with very limited access to email. For urgent enquiries please call the office on 02 9954 3492. Otherwise I will respond to your email upon my return. Thank You *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Tom, I think the answer to that is semantics - div has no meaning. Id's are there for you to manipulate the look and behaviour, the tags themselves offer a way for third parties to glean meaning from the page. e.g you could build an overview of a page by grabbing the first bit of text inside each section, assistive technologies can benefit from knowing what part of the page is the main part, header, footer, asdie or google might give greater weight to any text inside a section etc. That is definitely one person's interpretation... :) a 'div' definitely has meaning, ie: it is a division of one part of the page, from another; whether it is used for other behaviour, doesn't preclude it from from its original meaning. Similarly, a #id was originally designated as the location within a page, not for CSS - semantically it is to reference a particular piece of information, within the bigger piece of content, eg: a section header maybe... It just so happens that it works really well for CSS too. And simplifying content manipulation. And so on. I'm not sure why you would infer that information in section's, is any more important than stuff written in a div? Can you elaborate? ie: assistive technologies can already target div's, so using that argument needs more. As with all things, use the most appropriate tool for the job. cheers, Mathew Robertson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
a 'div' definitely has meaning, ie: it is a division of one part of the page, from another; whether it is used for other behaviour, doesn't preclude it from from its original meaning. but when everything is in a div, div ceases to have much meaning. It simply says theres a bunch of things on the page that are separate to each other without giving any clue as to what they might contain Similarly, a #id was originally designated as the location within a page, not for CSS - semantically it is to reference a particular piece of information, within the bigger piece of content, eg: a section header maybe... It just so happens that it works really well for CSS too. And simplifying content manipulation. And so on. but in the context of the question, the reason to use header, for instance, vs div id=header, is to add meaning to the markup I'm not sure why you would infer that information in section's, is any more important than stuff written in a div? Can you elaborate? ie: assistive technologies can already target div's, so using that argument needs more. I didn't intend to infer that, I was just trying to show how section is more useful because it can be programmatically accessed in a way that div id=section can't. With regard to relevance of content, I was just trying to say that a search engine *might* choose to weight content in a given tag more than in another, whereas if everything is in a div it's harder to do this. A better example would have been to have said that the content in article *might* be more relevant to a search engine than the content in aside - compared with div id=article and div id=sidebar which would be harder to tell apart. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 offline storage question
On 13/08/10 05:17, Ryan Seddon wrote: Yeah that is a good point. Although doing so would require the person to visit each page which has it's own manifest before it will be cached. Have you ever tried caching pages which themselves have manifests? If you're referring to the page which references the manifest. The page which calls the manifest is automatically included in the cache. What I was driving at was if you list in a 'parent' manifest five pages, and each of those pages have manifests, does the browser download all files in those five manifest files? Or, as you say above, does the user have to visit each page? I'll have some time this afternoon so I'll probably just try it myself :) Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 5:53 AM, Chris Knowles w...@ckweb.com.au wrote: a 'div' definitely has meaning, ie: it is a division of one part of the page, from another; whether it is used for other behaviour, doesn't preclude it from from its original meaning. but when everything is in a div, div ceases to have much meaning. It simply says theres a bunch of things on the page that are separate to each other without giving any clue as to what they might contain Similarly, a #id was originally designated as the location within a page, not for CSS - semantically it is to reference a particular piece of information, within the bigger piece of content, eg: a section header maybe... It just so happens that it works really well for CSS too. And simplifying content manipulation. And so on. but in the context of the question, the reason to use header, for instance, vs div id=header, is to add meaning to the markup I'm not sure why you would infer that information in section's, is any more important than stuff written in a div? Can you elaborate? ie: assistive technologies can already target div's, so using that argument needs more. I didn't intend to infer that, I was just trying to show how section is more useful because it can be programmatically accessed in a way that div id=section can't. With regard to relevance of content, I was just trying to say that a search engine *might* choose to weight content in a given tag more than in another, whereas if everything is in a div it's harder to do this. A better example would have been to have said that the content in article *might* be more relevant to a search engine than the content in aside - compared with div id=article and div id=sidebar which would be harder to tell apart. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** THanks all -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:53 AM, Chris Knowles w...@ckweb.com.au wrote: a 'div' definitely has meaning, ie: it is a division of one part of the page, from another; whether it is used for other behaviour, doesn't preclude it from from its original meaning. but when everything is in a div, div ceases to have much meaning. It simply says theres a bunch of things on the page that are separate to each other without giving any clue as to what they might contain Similarly, a #id was originally designated as the location within a page, not for CSS - semantically it is to reference a particular piece of information, within the bigger piece of content, eg: a section header maybe... It just so happens that it works really well for CSS too. And simplifying content manipulation. And so on. but in the context of the question, the reason to use header, for instance, vs div id=header, is to add meaning to the markup I'm not sure why you would infer that information in section's, is any more important than stuff written in a div? Can you elaborate? ie: assistive technologies can already target div's, so using that argument needs more. I didn't intend to infer that, I was just trying to show how section is more useful because it can be programmatically accessed in a way that div id=section can't. With regard to relevance of content, I was just trying to say that a search engine *might* choose to weight content in a given tag more than in another, whereas if everything is in a div it's harder to do this. A better example would have been to have said that the content in article *might* be more relevant to a search engine than the content in aside - compared with div id=article and div id=sidebar which would be harder to tell apart. -- Chris Knowles Just to add onto Chris' email. This sounds like a good place to suggest people purchase Jeremy Keith's book HTML5 for Web Designers. In it he actually describes the semantics of the new tags and gives defines when and how to use tags like section article header footer etc. If you have questions like these definitely pick this book up as it will help clear up the confusion. Also as far as section goes there is not much difference between it and div as section is suppose to be used for grouping of thematically similar content. The difference between the two is that div has no semantic meaning and doesn't tell you anything about the content whereas section does. -- Jason Arnold http://www.jasonarnold.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Just to add onto Chris' email. This sounds like a good place to suggest people purchase Jeremy Keith's book HTML5 for Web Designers. In it he actually describes the semantics of the new tags and gives defines when and how to use tags like section article header footer etc. If you have questions like these definitely pick this book up as it will help clear up the confusion. Also as far as section goes there is not much difference between it and div as section is suppose to be used for grouping of thematically similar content. The difference between the two is that div has no semantic meaning and doesn't tell you anything about the content whereas section does. -- Jason Arnold http://www.jasonarnold.net I actually have this book. And read it cover to cover. The problem comes when I actually have to BUILD something using these elements... guess I'll read it again... -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Tom, HTML5 allows for the use of the elements header, footer, and aside in multiple instances. For example, an article could have a header and footer: section article header h2Article title/h2 pAugust 12, 2010/p /header p Article copy here. Article copy here. Article copy here. Article copy here./p footer pBy: Dan Freeman/p /footer /article /section Using ID's would not help you replicate this. You'd have to structure it like this: div class=section div class=article div class=header h2Article title/h2 pAugust 12, 2010/p /div p Article copy here. Article copy here. Article copy here. Article copy here./p div class=footer pBy: Dan Freeman/p /div /div /div Dan Freeman Webmaster ERP Administrator 800.650.6506 (TOLL FREE) 330.655.0341 (DIRECT) www.lexi.com -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 9:59 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5 Ignoring that this isn't using HTML5 elements, but using it as an analogy - via the classes and IDs - could this be improved upon? Is there a place for section(s) here? Did I get the element concepts right? Thanks again... Sorry,, Corrected Structure: div id=wrap div id=header pHeader here/p /div!-- !End Header -- div id=container class=clear div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div /div!-- !End #container -- div id=aside pSidebar/p /div div id=footer pFooter/p /div!-- !End Footer -- /div!--! end of #wrap -- -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** LEXI-COMP CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this electronic mail is intended for the named recipients only. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended receiver is prohibited. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this electronic e-mail or by calling 330-650-6506. Please delete it from your computer. Thank you. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Sorry,, Corrected Structure: div id=wrap div id=header pHeader here/p /div!-- !End Header -- div id=container class=clear div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div /div!-- !End #container -- div id=aside pSidebar/p /div div id=footer pFooter/p /div!-- !End Footer -- /div!--! end of #wrap -- Dan, I am aware of the HTML5 elements, thanks. I'm just not ready to leap into that right yet, but want to try to understand the semantics of the element and, with classes/IDs, make an analogy with my structure. My 'header' is the header for the entire page. My 'articles' have an H2 in each and can't see why I'd wrap each on in a 'header' element (or analogous one). My structure above is what I am literally using on a page. WHat I am after is an HTML5 analogy to this. Does a div.section belong in there somewhere? THanks -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Tom, just go for it. You can add the modernizr or similar js to get IE to recognize the elements. But you won't appreciate the semantics of HTML5 until you ditch divs for the new tags. I speak from experience. There's a certain level of awareness you get while trying to decide the most semantic structure. Continuing to work with divs/classes will always leave you half way there. Ted -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:59 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5 Sorry,, Corrected Structure: div id=wrap div id=header pHeader here/p /div!-- !End Header -- div id=container class=clear div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div div class=article Content with an H2, a UL, Ps and As and a picture /div /div!-- !End #container -- div id=aside pSidebar/p /div div id=footer pFooter/p /div!-- !End Footer -- /div!--! end of #wrap -- Dan, I am aware of the HTML5 elements, thanks. I'm just not ready to leap into that right yet, but want to try to understand the semantics of the element and, with classes/IDs, make an analogy with my structure. My 'header' is the header for the entire page. My 'articles' have an H2 in each and can't see why I'd wrap each on in a 'header' element (or analogous one). My structure above is what I am literally using on a page. WHat I am after is an HTML5 analogy to this. Does a div.section belong in there somewhere? THanks -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Tom, I have 'played' with the simple elements and I like them. I actually wanted to have a 'page' element (or wrapper) since that is an element that is used an awful lot, but I never got anywhere with folk accepting it. For a simple example, see: http://www.betasite.fsnet.co.uk/gam/altgam/gwelanmor.html Also see: http://www.betasite.fsnet.co.uk/gam/altgam/portfolio.html for an example of the use of figure and figcaption I was very impressed with that - simple and semantic. Also note from the above that target=_blank is now valid! Hope this helps. Bob - Original Message - From: Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5 [snip] I actually have this book. And read it cover to cover. The problem comes when I actually have to BUILD something using these elements... guess I'll read it again... -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:11 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: Tom, I have 'played' with the simple elements and I like them. I actually wanted to have a 'page' element (or wrapper) since that is an element that is used an awful lot, but I never got anywhere with folk accepting it. For a simple example, see: http://www.betasite.fsnet.co.uk/gam/altgam/gwelanmor.html Also see: This is great. THanks. One other thing that's making me shy from the edge. A production (client site) site that relies on JS to render makes me sweat a little. Can anyone convince me that it's ok? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Take a look at the js, it's pretty simple. However, it is true that you are leaving yourself open. At Yahoo, we treat IE6 as an a-level browser. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ So you aren't going to see me push to change Yahoo! Finance to HTML5 tags. However, I have been doing it to smaller projects and am about to convert a client's site to html5 structure. You need to build a site to learn HTML5 semantics, it's like the old days of hybrid table-based layouts. 7 years ago you really needed to ditch tables to truly understand CSS. If you are worried about a client, than do it on your personal site or for a more progressive client. Ted -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5 On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 1:11 PM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: Tom, I have 'played' with the simple elements and I like them. I actually wanted to have a 'page' element (or wrapper) since that is an element that is used an awful lot, but I never got anywhere with folk accepting it. For a simple example, see: http://www.betasite.fsnet.co.uk/gam/altgam/gwelanmor.html Also see: This is great. THanks. One other thing that's making me shy from the edge. A production (client site) site that relies on JS to render makes me sweat a little. Can anyone convince me that it's ok? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
On 13 Aug 2010, at 18:51, Ted Drake wrote: You need to build a site to learn HTML5 semantics, it's like the old days of hybrid table-based layouts. 7 years ago you really needed to ditch tables to truly understand CSS. Are you suggesting that to switch to HTML5 we should avoid the use of div entirely, using only section, article etc to chunk up the content? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
Take a look at the js, it's pretty simple. However, it is true that you are leaving yourself open. At Yahoo, we treat IE6 as an a-level browser. http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/ So you aren't going to see me push to change Yahoo! Finance to HTML5 tags. However, I have been doing it to smaller projects and am about to convert a client's site to html5 structure. You need to build a site to learn HTML5 semantics, it's like the old days of hybrid table-based layouts. 7 years ago you really needed to ditch tables to truly understand CSS. If you are worried about a client, than do it on your personal site or for a more progressive client. Ted Thanks Ted. Appreciate it. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5
No, I'm suggesting that if you truly want to learn html5 semantics you need to build a site without divs. Once you understand the semantics you can better understand why you would use the new tags and why you would fall back to divs. But to continue working with divs that have semantic class names will not give you that understanding. It's a mental leap. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Tony Crockford Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:57 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Getting my feet wet in HTML5 On 13 Aug 2010, at 18:51, Ted Drake wrote: You need to build a site to learn HTML5 semantics, it's like the old days of hybrid table-based layouts. 7 years ago you really needed to ditch tables to truly understand CSS. Are you suggesting that to switch to HTML5 we should avoid the use of div entirely, using only section, article etc to chunk up the content? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Tracy Gulliksen/ALIC is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 08/13/2010 and will not return until 08/14/2010. I will respond to your message when I return. If you need immediate assistance, please contact a member of the Group Shared Services team. Thanks! *** This message may contain confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is legally privileged. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, disseminating, distributing or copying this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please immediately notify us by replying to the message and delete the original message immediately thereafter. Thank you. *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate
I rather liked the conditionals around the body. What's not to like? Imho, it goes against the separation of structure and presentation (plus it messes up with the cascade), but I can understand why they are doing this. Since most people strongly believe that CSS validation is a must, they have to offer a solution that comes with the badge. Fwiw, I'd delete that junk markup and go with good old _property and *property hacks ;-) In any case, they are plenty of good things in there. A lot to learn... -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate
I rather liked the conditionals around the body. What's not to like? Imho, it goes against the separation of structure and presentation (plus it messes up with the cascade), but I can understand why they are doing this. Since most people strongly believe that CSS validation is a must, they have to offer a solution that comes with the badge. Fwiw, I'd delete that junk markup and go with good old _property and *property hacks ;-) I like to concept of Conditional Comments around the body, and can see your point about it going against the concept of structure/ presentation. Regardless, I have two other concerns: 1. to stop IE8 stalling, you have to place an empty conditional comment near the top of the document head. I'm sure that every time one of these is added to a document a fairy dies somewhere. Details here (under Update): http://www.phpied.com/conditional-comments-block-downloads/ 2. if you use a CMS that pushes classes into the body element, you are in all sorts of trouble with this method. If you really like this method, an alternative is to use the same method on the html element. http://htmlcssjavascript.com/css/rethinking-the-how-to-serve-ie-specific-css-question/ Here is a sample page (view source to see the Conditional Comments around the head element): http://htmlcssjavascript.com/samples/cc/mine.html The bottom line is that all solutions when dealing with earlier versions of IE are going to be some sort of hack - whether it is a CSS hack or an HTML hack - it comes down to choices that you have to make... - which is most efficient - which is most future proof (won't come back and bite you) - which is easiest to maintain etc Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] accessible html editors
hi. i know front page is no longer around. but will expression web work well with jaws. need to use a wiyziwig html editor. any suggestions or recommendations. thank you. marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
