RE: [WSG] A floating menu that keeps folding where it shouldn't (repost)
Also make sure you look at css drop down examples at www.alistapart.com . I think there's stuff about using position:relative or z-index to get it going right. Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 4:21 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] A floating menu that keeps folding where it shouldn't (repost) Hi Seona I guess one reason you have had no replies is that the page does not validate. This may not be the cause of the problem, but it's a starting point (I'm not blaming, just observing) For the rest, it's difficult (read: time-consuming) to go through a 21kB CSS file to find what may be the cause of the problem. All I can think of is that it's related to the mix of left and right floats, absolute and relative positioning in your #prinav, with the ul having no width specified. Maybe IE is not expanding the container to make room for the fourth list item. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluid problems
I noted that the contentRight div has a height of 500px on it. The first paragraph fits within that 500 and so its staying in...after the text exceeds to bottom of the right div, it spills out...so you need to work on that rightDiv I think. Buddy Paul Bennett wrote: There's a message here: *Before* asking - VALIDATE your code! :) Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Visual Process Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:38 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fluid problems Why does your base.css file have html in it? Adam Morris wrote: I'm having BIG problems trying to get the content of this site to be held within the image 'containers' I've used. Help me, please?! I'm beginning to lose it. Adam http://www.janelehrer.co.uk/live5 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluid problems
Short answer. You can't. The problem is you have your right div inside the div that holds the content with a float right. CSS Div boxes will ONLY be as high as the content is. Browsers dont follow height:100% at least not right now. So what you should do is take the rightcontent outof the content div. Give the content div a width of whatever you want and then float that right div cross your fingers...there might be more involved but thats the basic rundown. You might have to put both the content and rightcontent inside a wrapper and also float the content:left. Buddy Adam Morris wrote: true! I want the height to stretch the height of the content... how??!!?? I've added the missing /p (thanks, Seona) and the page now validates. base.css? just a hang-over from another page. all the style info is in the head at the moment. On 16/11/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noted that the contentRight div has a height of 500px on it. The first paragraph fits within that 500 and so its staying in...after the text exceeds to bottom of the right div, it spills out...so you need to work on that rightDiv I think. Buddy Paul Bennett wrote: There's a message here: *Before* asking - VALIDATE your code! :) Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Visual Process Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:38 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Fluid problems Why does your base.css file have html in it? Adam Morris wrote: I'm having BIG problems trying to get the content of this site to be held within the image 'containers' I've used. Help me, please?! I'm beginning to lose it. Adam http://www.janelehrer.co.uk/live5 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox mystery space bug?
That is very strange...when i 'edit css' via the web developers toolbar in ff the space goes away even after you close the 'edit css' window until you refresh...I have no idea. Buddy Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: Guys and gals, check this out. http://hayteam.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp I get this occasional bug to show in Firefox for Windows. What happens is occasionally Firefox puts a big space at the bottom of my content before just before the footer as if I had a bunch of spaces in there. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes it shows up if I refresh a few times, then after another refresh it disappears. I have also seen it creep on this site too: http://northstartraffic.com/default.asp It seems as though it is set off by content that is longer than the page, I've also gotten it to pop up more often when I fiddle with the declaration of link styles in the footer. Its very strange and hopefully its not me! If anyone is aware of this, or has a known fix for this please let me know! Thanks, Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC 408 Route 47 South Cape May Court House, NJ 08210 (609) 335-3076 http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE team says no to hacks
what do you mean by conditional comments? It seems to me, that css hacks are not really a good thing since they are called hacks. The language should just work regardless of browser or computer. I think thats what standards are for aren't they? So that the language is standard for everyone?? Making it easier to maintain for future proof? Buddy Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/13/05, Alan Trick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I personally think that this will be unrealistic for the time being. But it's nice to hear that the IE team is starting to take a stand agains the problems their buggy software created. It sounds more like they are taking a stand against the designers who tried to work around those buggy problems. They aren't cleaning up their own act, just making it harder to hack around them. IE 7 still has some of the quirky implementations that make older versions of IE so difficult to design for. The worst part is that they are condeming hacks, but promoting conditional comments. This is not the way to go! They should be eliminating the need for conditional comments entirely. -- - C Montoya rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE team says no to hacks
I read the first part and even went to the websites of the hacks it gave references to. I thought that was the end of the post and then only saw the conditional stuff after I had posted so I apologize for that. Yes, exactly... IE needs to play nice like all the other browsers. Buddy Christian Montoya wrote: Did you read the blog post in the link? The writer insists that developers use conditional comments, and even shows how to use them. What I am saying is that IE should be eliminating the need for both conditional comments and hacks. I'm not saying to take their functionality away... it's a nice option to have, just stop making IE so inconsistent with other browsers. I'll probably be using conditional comments for the next five years, and everytime I use them I think to myself, this would just be easier if IE worked the same as FF/Opera/Safari. On 10/13/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what do you mean by conditional comments? It seems to me, that css hacks are not really a good thing since they are called hacks. The language should just work regardless of browser or computer. I think thats what standards are for aren't they? So that the language is standard for everyone?? Making it easier to maintain for future proof? Buddy Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/13/05, Alan Trick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I personally think that this will be unrealistic for the time being. But it's nice to hear that the IE team is starting to take a stand agains the problems their buggy software created. It sounds more like they are taking a stand against the designers who tried to work around those buggy problems. They aren't cleaning up their own act, just making it harder to hack around them. IE 7 still has some of the quirky implementations that make older versions of IE so difficult to design for. The worst part is that they are condeming hacks, but promoting conditional comments. This is not the way to go! They should be eliminating the need for conditional comments entirely. -- - C Montoya rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- - C Montoya rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] DW 8 standards
im suprised because I think the built in validator actually checks the validity through the internet from w3c, doesn't it? So, I dont know how it could not work properly. I may be wrong but that's what I thought happened. Wha semantically doesn't it do in strict mode? Can you provide an example? Buddy Jad Madi wrote: Well, I'm new to DW8 I used to hand coding but it's taking time to deliver sites, so I'm learning to use DW, and it seems to be good, at least till now. Code wise it can do everything for you, semantic wise you will have to be careful and the internal validate doesn't work 100% properly with xhtml strict, but that's fine ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Avoiding the evil br
Usually when telling someone an address your giving it to them as
information which they either have to write down or type in. The pause
is usually to let them write it down before you go any further.
I wonder if there is a way to make the screen reader say what you want
it to say for instance if you could preface the whole address with
something like "start address" and then end with "end address" then
they could know that they could just copy and paste that portion
wherever they wanted if they needed it.
Buddy
Richard Czeiger wrote:
Hey Christian.
Actually I find when
reading an address (or telling it to someone else) I do pause after
certain elements:
street,
suburb,
state and postcode
(these seem to go togetherfor my internal voice - NSW 2011 - almost
like a license plate)
Saying the whole
address wihout pausing wouldn't make sense
R
-
Original Message -
From:
Christian
Montoya
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Avoiding the evil br
On 10/9/05, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
OK
so someone pointed out that pre would be better for poetry
That was me.
pre
does a nice job of handling the visual side of things but from a
screen reader's point of view, how do they handle a line break through
pre
as opposed to br /. Do they pause or say "new line"? I think,
when all is
said and done though that pre does seem better for poetry.
Actually, I think I learned in poetry class that most poems are meant
to be read continuously. In some poems line breaks matter, but it would
be up to the screen readers to ensure that the structure of a poem was
not lost to the listener. If you tried to style a poem by e.e.
cummings, you would have a boatload of nbsp; and br /.
Not pretty at all.
Glad we agree. Back to the topic at hand, why would you pause when
reading an address aloud? If you tell me your address, do I really care
where the line breaks are? Read this aloud:
909 anystreet
ithaca, new york
Did you stop at the line break? Did it matter? My point is that we
don't need to make the line break obvious to the screen reader. If we
want it there for the browser that lacks css we would want the br
/. Sometimes line breaks are necessary visually, with or without
css. Otherwise, the span{display:block;} method would work too. I would
prefer the br /.
For another example of where I use br /, I sometimes use it in
forms, where I want line breaks with or without css.
PS: in terms of the address element itself - check out
what's happening
over here!
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2004/02/xhtml-rdf.html#div154379976
The "resource" term looks like a great way to make an address semantic.
--
- C Montoya
rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] DW 8 standards
As an avid user of Dreamweaver everyday, I can tell you that Dreamweaver is great for compliant sites. It has a lot of built in tools like a validator that validates to the spec of your current DTD. Also closes tags according to the dtd chosen. It has not only xhtml validator but also 508 validator. Macromedia has been working side by side with the w3c very carefully to make sure their product can deliver accessible sites. The new version 8 is also way better for css layouts. That's one the new features it touts. Buddy Jad Madi wrote: Hi, is there any good reviews of Dreamweaver 8 and web standards? do you recommend using it to achieve standards compliant sites? any advantages/disadvantages? Thanks in advance. -- Regards Jad madi Blog http://EasyHTTP.com/jad/ Web standards Planet http://W3planet.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Avoiding the evil br
Peter Firminger wrote: This thread is a clear case of why non-standards developers laugh at us (Web Standards Zealots) and justifiably say we're irrelevant. We're arguing over a line break! Forget the context (but a postal or street address is a fine example of the need for a line break in the way most (en) people write out addresses. I second that. I tried to make a point like this a few threads ago and got reamed for it. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!
Your website will not pull up for me. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: I didnt have room for all of them but Ive added most of the sites below. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of bit Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin! hi all, maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... http://www.sitepoint.com/ http://digital-web.com/ http://cssplay.co.uk/ http://tanfa.co.uk/ http://www.stylegala.com/ http://kottke.org/ http://www.wpdfd.com/ nice greetings from vienna :) 2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com * andybudd.com * jasonsantamaria.com * accessify.com * clagnut.com * 456bereastreet.com * quirksmode.org * tantek.com * positioniseverything.net * tdrake.net * zeldman.com * webstandards group P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your suggestions. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- "Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ..." (Linus Torvalds) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!
Weird, i cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or something. I tried ping and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside website but not from my machine. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: Hi buddy The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net its the first post. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Your website will not pull up for me. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: I didnt have room for all of them but Ive added most of the sites below. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of bit Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin! hi all, maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... http://www.sitepoint.com/ http://digital-web.com/ http://cssplay.co.uk/ http://tanfa.co.uk/ http://www.stylegala.com/ http://kottke.org/ http://www.wpdfd.com/ nice greetings from vienna :) 2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com * andybudd.com * jasonsantamaria.com * accessify.com * clagnut.com * 456bereastreet.com * quirksmode.org * tantek.com * positioniseverything.net * tdrake.net * zeldman.com * webstandards group P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your suggestions. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- "Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ..." (Linus Torvalds) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Well, I think the answer is a yes and no. Google I don't think reads or puts any weight on the meta tags at all. It does read a couple of meta tags like the 'revisit' meta tag and a couple of others but not description or keywords. Google goes more by link popularity and keyword density in the actual content of the pages and follows the robots.txt file for its rules. Other search engines will still read those keywords and description meta tags. You can go to each of the major search engines and see exactly how they work and what they accept and dont accept on their websites. Buddy Martin Jopson wrote: During one of Tantek's seminars at WE05, I assumed I was the last person in the world to learn that Meta Keywords were no longer used by search engines. However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Could anyone please clarify the situation for Meta Keywords and also Meta Description. If possible also a web resource that states clearly these issues. Thanks Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
I second that. Buddy John Allsopp wrote: Martin, However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Get them to ask Hitwise to justify the recommendation, based on anything other than handwaving and superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Jello flexible layout
I did an experiment with the full height thing about a year ago. I was absolutely baffled but what I found out, is if you leave out the doctype, full height will work in IE. But does not work with a doctype. Obviously because the browser has kicked into the dtd's mode. You can see the final product of the site I built for a few banks. Here's one: http://www.firstgaston.com Take a look at the code and steal whatever you think you can use. I ended up using a table to get things done correctly. Buddy Tom Livingston wrote: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:18:15 -0400, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Umm, is this related to Jello exclusively? Yes. However, I managed to get the designer to go another direction with reguards to full height. But full height using Jello Mold is tricky because one of the key structural elements must have a height of 0 within a Holly Hack for IEWin. Traditionally, the hack is used with height:1% (for hasLayout I believe) but anything other than 0 breaks this layout in IEWIN. I emailed Mike Purvis, author of Jello Mold. He got full height working in most browsers, but the test he sent me breaks in IEWin, probably because of the above. If I catch wind of it working cross-browser, I'll repost. Thanks everyone. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!
I had never been there until this thread popped and up and yes, you are correct, it's ugly. But I guess it's the content that makes it succeed? Buddy Nick Lo wrote: I agree with Andreas to the degree that he is really saying this is not THE Top Ten Web Design Mistakes of 2005 but rather Top Ten Web Design Mistakes of 2005 according to subscribers of a newsletter directed at people interested in Jakob Nielsen's views on usability. In that respect it's a bit like general browser statistics, interesting, but not really that useful. Unless you are building a site targeted at people interested in usability who also enjoy reading Jakob Nielsen's newsletters then these points are merely one of many that could appear in a checklist. I hate to do the all too common dig at Jakob Nielsen but I always find it amazing that useit.com has such standing when it is itself such an awkward and unattractive site to use. Anyway, in the end it comes down to what is relevant to the users of the site you are building. Nick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Jello flexible layout
I had these same requirements...after trying to do it in CSS alone I decided it wasnt possible since you can't use height:100% for a container and it work like a table does. I ended up using a hybrid layout with a table for the general stuff but all controlled by css. It works. Buddy Tom Livingston wrote: On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:43:42 -0400, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone mentioned the Jello layout style during the clearleft thread (thank you who ever you are -- very cool!) You're more than welcome :) I was wondering if anyone has used this and if they ran into any problems Since it is pretty easy to inject to a failsafe layout, it won't (most likely) mess the layout. Just go ahead and try :) I've been playing with it recently and I've came across no problems at all. Jan, I have been trying to implement the Jello on my current project when I was just thrown a curve. The designer wants the page to be full height in the browser window, with a body bg pattern repeating for the area aoutside the page. I can't get this to work. Do you have any ideas? I know that one of the elements in the layour _must_ have a height of 0, which I think is my problem. Have you tried this? Sorry can't show you my page... :-( ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.
I think there's something fundamentally wrong when a discussion about what font you should and shouldn't use is brought up in the context of web standards. Web Standards is nice but to me it seems like its becoming this 'Eliteist' approach, and if you don't follow the guidelines exactly right, then you've completely missed the boat. Am I the only one that fills this way? I know this is a group to discuss ALL things Web Standards and people have their questions and they should be heard by all means. There are no stupid questions when it comes to web standards because to the mainstream web developer/user it's considered a new thing because it's finally catching on. I'm not trying to offend anybody here at all but so many posts about whether or not to use Verdana is just boring. Buddy James Bennett wrote: On 10/3/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most Linux systems have neither Verdana nor Arial installed, at least not by default. True, but these days nearly every Linux distribution ships the free Bitstream Vera font set, which includes a sans-serif with metrics similar to Verdana. Also, the "core web fonts" are typically available as an easily-installed package for most distributions, which will provide Verdana and other fonts. I've found that the following works well for providing compatibility to Linux users (and as a full-time Linux user for a number of years, I can personally attest to its effectiveness): Verdana, "Bitstream Vera Sans", "Lucida Sans", sans-serif -- "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." -- George Carlin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.
Yea, I agree with you on all of those issues...I myself love the use of
css layout and try to choose the best fonts possible. But I guess what
i'm trying to get at; is that there is a threshold on how far a group
should take things in any direction. It seems that the big picture of
web standards is great and makes sense and I try my best to use whats
available. Do I sit up all night reading DTD's? Not a chance...I just
don't have the time. I wish I did and I admire those that can read it
and understand and retain all that they read about it. I dont use the
accronym and cite and q tags like I should. But like a tree, some of
these discussions go out on a long limb and lose focus of the big
picture.
Buddy Q.
Joshua Street wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Buddy Quaid
Sent: Tue 4/10/2005 13:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.
I think there's something fundamentally wrong when a discussion about what font you should and shouldn't use is brought up in the context of web standards.
Why? Discussion of that allows us to make informed design/typography decisions that would otherwise result in a less-than-optimal user experience for "minority" user groups. Actually... I agree, web standards is wrong. Best practices and accessibility/usability, however, fit this discussion (IMHO) quite nicely.
"Web standards" (as this whole quagmire is unfortunately known) aren't really about standards at all. Shock, horror. Go stick that in a validator. We occasionally lose sight of the reasons for pursuing these "standards" (technically "recommendations", sometimes not even that) -- namely, catering for a wider audience irrespective of browsing technology (IE, Lynx, PDAs, Google); future-proofing information through semantic markup; and (this is true in a professional context, at least) improving ROI for businesses websites.
If the second reason there was our only cause, you're right, discussion about design and typography would be irrelevant. But the first and third reasons mean it's something we should worry about: firstly because we want to deliver the best possible experience (I know this sounds like marketing crap, sorry!) for all platforms -- and this means using the best fonts wherever possible (or relevant -- it's not for Google or JAWS, etc.) --, and secondly because (subject to the same condition of relevance) image _does_ matter for a number of websites out there... and CSS("standards")-based design can help achieve this, because you've got more than one shot at specifying fonts to target different platforms... amongst other things, like handheld stylesheets, etc.
/rant
Josh
--
Joshua Street
base10solutions
http://www.base10solutions.com.au/
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RE: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image
I can't seem to duplicate your problem in either FF or IE Works fine for me. Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Stump Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:10 PM To: WSG Group Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish nav moving page background image Hi all, I have an odd problem with my page background image jumping, when certain nodes on the suckerfish nav are hovered over. The site is here: http://media.compliance.org.au/home.asp If you hover over the last 2 nodes (specifically, Resources Shop, FAQ) with your browser width set to just bit wider than the actual site (with the CENTERED layout style set) you'll notice the whole page background image jump. It looks like it's trying to stay centered with the content of the page, which is logical I suppose, but unfortunate. Happens in IE and FF. The only fix I've come up with is to set the last 2 nodes to fly left, but I'd rather make the page background stay put without altering my nav. Cheers, Craig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Screen Resolution for Fluid Layouts
One thing to consider is your audience. If your site is all about graphics, chances are that the people going to your site are NOT blind and also that no designer in the world that does graphic design is going to have a 800x600 monitor resolution so in this case, it would be perfectly fine and you probably won't get much guff from people about it. A school learning site for kids and schools you might need to make it work properly for 800x600 as there are schools that don't have the money to upgrade their monitors or they keep them at low resolutions so the text is larger for the visually challenged as well. These are all things to consider. Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Screen Resolution for Fluid Layouts Hi Kenny, You're right, I made an assumption that because they stretched across the entire viewport in 1024X768 then the authors used fluid layouts, which was a mistake on my part, and next time I'll be sure to check their CSS, but it still makes my ask why they ignored 800X600. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Kind regards, Mario Therefore I'm very curious as to what the general concensus is from my fellow standards advocates when designing sites using liguid layouts? Truely liquid layouts will look fine at any resolution. Your examples are not liquid layouts. Your first and last examples use fixed widths, and the middle one uses *cringe* tables for layout. If you must use fixed widths, you just have to decide what resolution you want your site to look best in, and wish luck to the rest. If you have a liquid layout, the question of best resolution doesn't apply. But I'm sure there will be plenty of replies to come that give you an easier answer, such as 800x600 is best. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Font-size em and reseting within [using keywords]
According to 'Designing with web standards' by Jeffrey Zeldman keywords are used to size up and down the users specified size. It doesn't matter what size or how they choose their size -- in CSS, 'medium', will always be what they users specified size is set to and then scaled up or down by using the small, x-small, and so on. Also, text will not go any smaller than 9px which is considered the smallest 'legibile' font size. So, if they user has a specified size of 11px then we have this: Medium = 11px; Small = 10px; X-small = 9px; Xx-small = 9px; X-small and xx-small are the same size because they will not go beyond the 9px mark when using keywords. Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Lauke Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:05 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Font-size em and reseting within [using keywords] Tom Livingston So, using keywords, what happens when a user sets his/her browser pref. to 'small', and an author specifies 'medium'? Is the users text size changed? A user doesn't choose between small/medium/large as their preference. They'd set what size they want their 'medium' to be set As an author, by specifying medium, you then end up with the value the user has specified. Patrick __ Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Font-size em and reseting within
I don't believe you can stop the inheritance. You should try using the keywords which are relative to the users font-size setting. Xx-small x-small small etc... Otherwise you might can try mixing and matching percentages with ems? I have not tried it but maybe something like: div style=font-size: 0.90em; Some text div style=font-size: 90%; //-- maybe that will make it 90% OF .90em essentially dropping the size 10%? More text /div Some text /div Buddy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janelle Clemens Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:51 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: [WSG] Font-size em and reseting within If you are using em with font-size is there is a way to clear the font-size of a box element (stop the inheritance)?I am having a hard time explaining myself so maybe an example would be better. So if you have this code, the More text would be 0.80em relation to the 0.90em. div style=font-size: 0.90em; Some text div style=font-size: 0.80em; More text /div Some text /div Is there a way to reset the font-size on the second div so the 0.80em is actually 0.80em relation to the body of 1.0em without having to code like this? div style=font-size: 0.90em; Some text /div div style=font-size: 0.80em; More text /div div style=font-size: 0.90em; Some text /div Thanks, Janelle ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] FireFox DOM issue.
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this group and this is my first message.
I am porting over a rich text editor that currently only works in IE.
I have done tons of search about getting the selected text in a page.
I'm very close...for instance...you can now see the formatting buttons
and also I have the correct code to get it to know what is selected and
if you click 'bold' it will put the bold tags around it in a text box.
I want it so that if NOTHING is selected and you hit bold it will give
you an alert box for the text that you would like bolded. Then plance
that text with the bold tags around it. My problem is I can't get the
right code of the DOM to test correctly for a selection being made in
the text box.
I am currently trying
Str = window.getSelection;
If (str.isCollapsed) {
if true do this;
}else{
do this;
}
I put alert(str.isCollapsed) in there to trace what is going on but it's
ALWAYS true.
I'm wondering if it's because the text is in a textarea and not just on
the page?
Like I said, I have been getting it to work without sniffing to see if a
selection has actually been made to put the tags around the text but I
can't for the life of me sniff it out through code.
I've also tried
Str = window.getSelection;
If(str.toString().length 0) to no avail.
Thanks in advance!
Buddy
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RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks
Yes...
I know what your talking about.
Here is the javascript to get it working if you have a element with ID
of nav
startList = function() {
if (document.alldocument.getElementById) {
navRoot = document.getElementById(nav);
for (i=0; inavRoot.childNodes.length; i++) {
node = navRoot.childNodes[i];
if (node.nodeName==LI) {
node.onmouseover=function() {
this.className+= over;
}
node.onmouseout=function() {
this.className=this.className.replace
( over, );
}
}
}
}
}
window.onload=startList;
This comes from http://www.alistapart.com/articles/horizdropdowns/
Read that.
Buddy Quaid http://www.tangerinefiles.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Sherwood
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:18 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks
Hi All,
The tips and advice here is really fantastic. Highly
appreciated. I have a problem with a submenu that works by
altering the z-index. I
have used the following hack which I'm not entirely happy with. Can
someone suggest something better?
#submenu a:hover {
z-index: 20;
z-index: expression(body.z-index 20); /* invalid css: IE fix */ }
Regards,
Stuart Sherwood
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