Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Come off it. Under no circumstance has it ever cost us more to do it right than to do it poorly; shoddy workmanship always results in higher costs. If it is costing you too much to do it right, you are doing more than just your coding wrong. On 10/25/07, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your information, Rogier. Doesn't change my thinking though. Firefox with the Firefox logo works how it's supposed to, so there is a difference between the debian thing and the 'real' Firefox. And this difference isn't one we care about. First of all, if there are any users in that category, there isn't more than a handful. Secondly, they don't have to go to this page to use the site. This is separate 'help' information. Thirdly anyone who experiences the problem we were trying to solve can still navigate the site. So yes, it would be good to fix it. But there are far more pressing issues for us to work on and if any user finds they are experiencing the problem this was about, we don't care now, since all the users reflected in our site stats are not experiencing the problem. Cost/benefit once again. Ideally, we'd like the site to have no issues at all. But out of 100,000 users, 1 or 2 (at most!) might not be able to use the drop down menu to navigate out of the self-running demonstration and have to use the back button instead.If debian ever gets to the point in Australia where our users start using it, the cost/benefit ratio might change, at which time we might revisit the decision to move on to other issues. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 5:03 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Mike, Just for your information Iceweasel IS firefox, just with another name (build from the firefox source by the debian team). Because of those stupid American patent laws you can't use a name of software without a logo and because the logo is copyrighted, debian doesn't wants it in their O.S. fyi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel I understand that you have to prioritize how your site works with O.S.' es and browsers, but if you decide to use a plugin like flash you should go for it completely or don't. It's out of the question that users can't navigate your site, just because of some fancy flash. But that's my 2 cents. Rogier. On 25/10/2007, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its wonderful how, every time I post something to this list, people will rush to tell me how we ought to be spending our scarce development dollars. Christian Montoya, why do you assume that we're so dumb we don't know anything about our customers? We have quite a large number of Firefox customers, but if they're using Firefox, the site works fine. I know because I've tested it in Firefox. I develop with Firefox. My client's testing regime includes Firefox. There were several people on this list who tested it in Firefox and didn't report any problems. The issue was raised by Roger who said there was a small problem with Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian whatever that is, not Firefox.You accuse us of making poor assumptions when that's indeed what you did in your patronising way. It might be true in big shops that there are unlimited development dollars sufficient to allocate teams of people to iron out every last little issue, but in small shops like mine (and they don't come smaller than my business!!) there isn't unlimited time available. Here's a lesson in business for some of you. There is a limited supply of time and dollars, and most jobs have a deadline. If you're running a development shop for profit, there often comes a time when you have to accept there will be issues with your output, and as lon gas it doesn't impact unduly on your customers sometimes you have to just let the issues remain in order to run the business. I can't afford to be spending time tracking down every last problem. And my client wont pay me to either. We make some compromise decisions along the way.We will not even be testing our site in the browsers mentioned by Roger: Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, or Epiphany (whatever the hell they are). I've never heard of those browsers and I surely doubt many of my client's customers have either.The site works how we want it to in the major environments, and in the others it's still usable, if a little quirky. That's where it's gonna stop while we move on to more important issues like rebuilding the shopping cart that is showing signs of stress with the volumes
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Ok so Rogier says that a en esoteric non-standard version of Firefox gives a MINOR problem in navigaton on our help page.It MIGHT possibly affect perhaps 1 or 2 users out of more than100,000 users. There is no listing of anyone using debian in our OS stats. Which means it's only in the *Other listing. The problem these few users might see doesn't prevent them seeing the site, just makes ONE fo the menu drop downs a LITTLE difficult to use. They can still navigate the site. How much development time do you think that justifies? A day? 2 days? You think we should go get a machine, install debian, and run the problem down? Or just move on to more important problems? Until Rogier mentioned debian I had never even heard of it nor had anyone else I know. It's a NON-ISSUE IF you want to bother with it, good luck to you. But I've already wasted more time than its worth dealing with these emails. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Webmaster, Bluegrass Australia http://bluegrass.org.au Pacific Bluegrass Network - Not a preacher, not an expert but a fan - speaking from the heart. Talking dog on http://Bluegrasscountry.org - We are a Bluegrass Unlimited Reporting Program From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Wilson Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 4:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Come off it. Under no circumstance has it ever cost us more to do it right than to do it poorly; shoddy workmanship always results in higher costs. If it is costing you too much to do it right, you are doing more than just your coding wrong. * *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On Oct 26, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Michael Kear wrote: Good lord I’m glad you don’t run my development process. Let bloody debian fix their problem! Why should I have to spend MY time fixing things because they don’t get it right??? ... you are not fit to manage a commercial development operation. Please! Enough already! Some people have enough time, energy and dedication to squash every bug. Some people have to deal with considerations. If you don't have something nice to say... Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
I object to this notion that it's shoddy for me to ignore an insignificant number of users. And I resent your assertion that it is. Someone produces a version of some browser and it exists, and just because it exists, somewhere in the world, I'm being shoddy if I don't buy a machine to install that OS, learn about how it works, and then spend however long it takes to make special tweaks so a minor problem goes away for the 1 or 2 people that MIGHT possibly experience the problem? The people who made debian have produced shoddy work. Why do you accuse me of being shoddy?? It's THEM who are shoddy not me. No wonder no one uses it here. Good lord I'm glad you don't run my development process. Let bloody debian fix their problem! Why should I have to spend MY time fixing things because they don't get it right??? This page works fine on every browser and OS we have in our stats.We fixed the problem for those browsers a long time ago and moved on. If you cant see that there has to be some limit to the amount of time you can spend on a project tracking down every last tweak and quirk regardless of whether there are any affected users or not you are not fit to manage a commercial development operation. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com/ Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Wilson Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 4:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Come off it. Under no circumstance has it ever cost us more to do it right than to do it poorly; shoddy workmanship always results in higher costs. If it is costing you too much to do it right, you are doing more than just your coding wrong. On 10/25/07, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your information, Rogier. Doesn't change my thinking though. Firefox with the Firefox logo works how it's supposed to, so there is a difference between the debian thing and the 'real' Firefox. And this difference isn't one we care about. First of all, if there are any users in that category, there isn't more than a handful. Secondly, they don't have to go to this page to use the site. This is separate 'help' information. Thirdly anyone who experiences the problem we were trying to solve can still navigate the site. So yes, it would be good to fix it. But there are far more pressing issues for us to work on and if any user finds they are experiencing the problem this was about, we don't care now, since all the users reflected in our site stats are not experiencing the problem. Cost/benefit once again. Ideally, we'd like the site to have no issues at all. But out of 100,000 users, 1 or 2 (at most!) might not be able to use the drop down menu to navigate out of the self-running demonstration and have to use the back button instead.If debian ever gets to the point in Australia where our users start using it, the cost/benefit ratio might change, at which time we might revisit the decision to move on to other issues. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 5:03 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Mike, Just for your information Iceweasel IS firefox, just with another name (build from the firefox source by the debian team). Because of those stupid American patent laws you can't use a name of software without a logo and because the logo is copyrighted, debian doesn't wants it in their O.S. fyi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel I understand that you have to prioritize how your site works with O.S.' es and browsers, but if you decide to use a plugin like flash you should go for it completely or don't. It's out of the question that users can't navigate your site, just because of some fancy flash. But that's my 2 cents. Rogier. On 25/10/2007, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its wonderful how, every time I post something to this list, people will rush to tell me how we ought to be spending our scarce development dollars. Christian Montoya, why do you assume that we're so dumb we don't know anything about our customers? We have quite a large number of Firefox customers, but if they're using Firefox, the site works fine. I know because I've tested it in Firefox. I develop with Firefox. My client's testing regime includes Firefox. There were several people on this list who tested it in Firefox and didn't report any
[WSG] How to make DHML cover flash - ADMION - THRERAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED These sort of comments are not acceptable between members: you are doing more than just your coding wrong you are not fit to manage a commercial development operation Michael and Chris this thread has now been closed as it has deteriorated into an emotional exchange that is benefiting no one. As mentioned yesterday - this list is supposed to be about helping each other. If you have nothing positive, informative or helpful to say, please refrain from sharing it with the list. Please do not reply to this thread at all! Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
What's wrong with your Debian server? Regards, Mark Hedley Voxia Web Development Solutions Mobile: +44 07894 009 932 Office: +44 01670 840 752 Web: http://www.voxia.co.uk/ http://www.voxia.co.uk Proud Members of: GAWDS (Guild of Accessible Web Designers) | Web Standards Group | Independent Web Developers Portal | HTML Writers Guild From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Maben Sent: 26 October 2007 14:38 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash On Oct 26, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Michael Kear wrote: Good lord I'm glad you don't run my development process. Let bloody debian fix their problem! Why should I have to spend MY time fixing things because they don't get it right??? ... you are not fit to manage a commercial development operation. Please! Enough already! Some people have enough time, energy and dedication to squash every bug. Some people have to deal with considerations. If you don't have something nice to say... Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
I think its wonderful how, every time I post something to this list, people will rush to tell me how we ought to be spending our scarce development dollars. Christian Montoya, why do you assume that we're so dumb we don't know anything about our customers? We have quite a large number of Firefox customers, but if they're using Firefox, the site works fine. I know because I've tested it in Firefox. I develop with Firefox. My client's testing regime includes Firefox. There were several people on this list who tested it in Firefox and didn't report any problems. The issue was raised by Roger who said there was a small problem with Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian whatever that is, not Firefox.You accuse us of making poor assumptions when that's indeed what you did in your patronising way. It might be true in big shops that there are unlimited development dollars sufficient to allocate teams of people to iron out every last little issue, but in small shops like mine (and they don't come smaller than my business!!) there isn't unlimited time available. Here's a lesson in business for some of you. There is a limited supply of time and dollars, and most jobs have a deadline. If you're running a development shop for profit, there often comes a time when you have to accept there will be issues with your output, and as lon gas it doesn't impact unduly on your customers sometimes you have to just let the issues remain in order to run the business. I can't afford to be spending time tracking down every last problem. And my client wont pay me to either. We make some compromise decisions along the way.We will not even be testing our site in the browsers mentioned by Roger: Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, or Epiphany (whatever the hell they are). I've never heard of those browsers and I surely doubt many of my client's customers have either.The site works how we want it to in the major environments, and in the others it's still usable, if a little quirky. That's where it's gonna stop while we move on to more important issues like rebuilding the shopping cart that is showing signs of stress with the volumes we're getting, and redesigning the database which no longer copes with the range of products we have to accommodate. Those of you who think the minimum standard is perfection, good for you. Well done, I salute you. I wish I had your set of deadlines and funding to be able to do the same. Our standard is slightly lower at 'as good as we can get it within the time and money allowed.' Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 6:12 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kear Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. I work with a 6 non-techie business types who are all involved in advertising/licensing related functions and they all use Firefox by choice. Have you ever asked your users what they actually use? Do you have any stats on browsers (Google analytics will tell you this)? If not, you are just making a poor assumption. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash - ADMIN
ADMIN A reminder to all WSG members (and this is not directed at any one individual) this list is all about helping each other. Please refrain from attacking, abusing or ridiculing anyone. Be civil and courteous. If you have nothing positive, informative or helpful to say, please refrain from sharing it with the list. The thread can continue, but please do not reply to this post. If you have anything you wish to say about this post, email me off-list. As you were Russ Miss manors *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Mike, Just for your information Iceweasel IS firefox, just with another name (build from the firefox source by the debian team). Because of those stupid American patent laws you can't use a name of software without a logo and because the logo is copyrighted, debian doesn't wants it in their O.S. fyi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel I understand that you have to prioritize how your site works with O.S.' es and browsers, but if you decide to use a plugin like flash you should go for it completely or don't. It's out of the question that users can't navigate your site, just because of some fancy flash. But that's my 2 cents. Rogier. On 25/10/2007, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its wonderful how, every time I post something to this list, people will rush to tell me how we ought to be spending our scarce development dollars. Christian Montoya, why do you assume that we're so dumb we don't know anything about our customers? We have quite a large number of Firefox customers, but if they're using Firefox, the site works fine. I know because I've tested it in Firefox. I develop with Firefox. My client's testing regime includes Firefox. There were several people on this list who tested it in Firefox and didn't report any problems. The issue was raised by Roger who said there was a small problem with Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian whatever that is, not Firefox.You accuse us of making poor assumptions when that's indeed what you did in your patronising way. It might be true in big shops that there are unlimited development dollars sufficient to allocate teams of people to iron out every last little issue, but in small shops like mine (and they don't come smaller than my business!!) there isn't unlimited time available. Here's a lesson in business for some of you. There is a limited supply of time and dollars, and most jobs have a deadline. If you're running a development shop for profit, there often comes a time when you have to accept there will be issues with your output, and as lon gas it doesn't impact unduly on your customers sometimes you have to just let the issues remain in order to run the business. I can't afford to be spending time tracking down every last problem. And my client wont pay me to either. We make some compromise decisions along the way.We will not even be testing our site in the browsers mentioned by Roger: Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, or Epiphany (whatever the hell they are). I've never heard of those browsers and I surely doubt many of my client's customers have either.The site works how we want it to in the major environments, and in the others it's still usable, if a little quirky. That's where it's gonna stop while we move on to more important issues like rebuilding the shopping cart that is showing signs of stress with the volumes we're getting, and redesigning the database which no longer copes with the range of products we have to accommodate. Those of you who think the minimum standard is perfection, good for you. Well done, I salute you. I wish I had your set of deadlines and funding to be able to do the same. Our standard is slightly lower at 'as good as we can get it within the time and money allowed.' Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2007 6:12 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kear Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. I work with a 6 non-techie business types who are all involved in advertising/licensing related functions and they all use Firefox by choice. Have you ever asked your users what they actually use? Do you have any stats on browsers (Google analytics will tell you this)? If not, you are just making a poor assumption. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Thanks for your information, Rogier. Doesn't change my thinking though. Firefox with the Firefox logo works how it's supposed to, so there is a difference between the debian thing and the 'real' Firefox. And this difference isn't one we care about. First of all, if there are any users in that category, there isn't more than a handful. Secondly, they don't have to go to this page to use the site. This is separate 'help' information. Thirdly anyone who experiences the problem we were trying to solve can still navigate the site. So yes, it would be good to fix it. But there are far more pressing issues for us to work on and if any user finds they are experiencing the problem this was about, we don't care now, since all the users reflected in our site stats are not experiencing the problem. Cost/benefit once again. Ideally, we'd like the site to have no issues at all. But out of 100,000 users, 1 or 2 (at most!) might not be able to use the drop down menu to navigate out of the self-running demonstration and have to use the back button instead.If debian ever gets to the point in Australia where our users start using it, the cost/benefit ratio might change, at which time we might revisit the decision to move on to other issues. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker Sent: Friday, 26 October 2007 5:03 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Mike, Just for your information Iceweasel IS firefox, just with another name (build from the firefox source by the debian team). Because of those stupid American patent laws you can't use a name of software without a logo and because the logo is copyrighted, debian doesn't wants it in their O.S. fyi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel I understand that you have to prioritize how your site works with O.S.' es and browsers, but if you decide to use a plugin like flash you should go for it completely or don't. It's out of the question that users can't navigate your site, just because of some fancy flash. But that's my 2 cents. Rogier. On 25/10/2007, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think its wonderful how, every time I post something to this list, people will rush to tell me how we ought to be spending our scarce development dollars. Christian Montoya, why do you assume that we're so dumb we don't know anything about our customers? We have quite a large number of Firefox customers, but if they're using Firefox, the site works fine. I know because I've tested it in Firefox. I develop with Firefox. My client's testing regime includes Firefox. There were several people on this list who tested it in Firefox and didn't report any problems. The issue was raised by Roger who said there was a small problem with Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian whatever that is, not Firefox.You accuse us of making poor assumptions when that's indeed what you did in your patronising way. It might be true in big shops that there are unlimited development dollars sufficient to allocate teams of people to iron out every last little issue, but in small shops like mine (and they don't come smaller than my business!!) there isn't unlimited time available. Here's a lesson in business for some of you. There is a limited supply of time and dollars, and most jobs have a deadline. If you're running a development shop for profit, there often comes a time when you have to accept there will be issues with your output, and as lon gas it doesn't impact unduly on your customers sometimes you have to just let the issues remain in order to run the business. I can't afford to be spending time tracking down every last problem. And my client wont pay me to either. We make some compromise decisions along the way.We will not even be testing our site in the browsers mentioned by Roger: Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, or Epiphany (whatever the hell they are). I've never heard of those browsers and I surely doubt many of my client's customers have either.The site works how we want it to in the major environments, and in the others it's still usable, if a little quirky. That's where it's gonna stop while we move on to more important issues like rebuilding the shopping cart that is showing signs of stress with the volumes we're getting, and redesigning the database which no longer copes with the range of products we have to accommodate. Those of you who think the minimum standard is perfection, good for you. Well done, I salute you. I wish I had your set of deadlines and funding to be able to do the same. Our standard is slightly lower at 'as good as we can get it within the time and money allowed
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Hi Michael I had about 2 minutes to wait for the flash to download (and I have a 20Mbps connection), so ample time to click one of the menu items in Konquerer. For those browsers that don't do the wmode thing, how about some links elsewhere on the page. For instance in drop down menus it's a good idea to make the root level menu items linkable to some other page (like stock service etc etc) - on those pages show some links to their children and so on.. HTH James On 10/23/07, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Rogier, I appreciate your help. Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. The few users inconvenienced by the issue can just use the back button or click on one of the top menu items and get the drop downs from there. Sorry for those people, but them's the breaks. Sometimes you have problems you know are there, but just simply aren't high enough in the priorities to get fixed. I have several other deadlines with this client to meet, and they're far more important than this one. But you're right, Rogier, it ought to be fixed for those users, but it's not going to be unless I have a slow day sometime. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 4:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Hello, Just so you know, there's no dropdown shown in Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, neither for Epiphany and Konquerer doesn't seem to work with flash. Hope it's useful. Regards, Rogier Schoenmaker. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
You can get dhtml to cover flash by setting the flash to use wmode:transparent. However, this makes the content in the flash invisible to screen readers. IE6 is hell with z-index. Especially when combined with form elements. IE7 is much better and you should be able to create a page that works in all browsers with just a few issues in IE6. Yahoo! published the Graded Browser Support chart to justify which browsers can be supported reasonably. I don't think the browsers listed below are A-level. However, you shouldn't build to IE, but to standards-compliant browsers, like firefox/opera for win. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kear Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Thanks Rogier, I appreciate your help. Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. The few users inconvenienced by the issue can just use the back button or click on one of the top menu items and get the drop downs from there. Sorry for those people, but them's the breaks. Sometimes you have problems you know are there, but just simply aren't high enough in the priorities to get fixed. I have several other deadlines with this client to meet, and they're far more important than this one. But you're right, Rogier, it ought to be fixed for those users, but it's not going to be unless I have a slow day sometime. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 4:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Hello, Just so you know, there's no dropdown shown in Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, neither for Epiphany and Konquerer doesn't seem to work with flash. Hope it's useful. Regards, Rogier Schoenmaker. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Kear Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. I work with a 6 non-techie business types who are all involved in advertising/licensing related functions and they all use Firefox by choice. Have you ever asked your users what they actually use? Do you have any stats on browsers (Google analytics will tell you this)? If not, you are just making a poor assumption. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Hello, Just so you know, there's no dropdown shown in Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, neither for Epiphany and Konquerer doesn't seem to work with flash. Hope it's useful. Regards, Rogier Schoenmaker. On 18/10/2007, nate hanna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/17/07, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reason for using wmode was to fix the problem that existed before. All I wanted was to make sure the dhtml drop down menu came down on top of the flash movie not underneath it. Is that not the best way ? Mike, unfortunately claiming wmode is the only way to get the drop-downs to come over flash; I just wanted you to be aware that there are accessibility concerns (see the links in my last post) when using wmode. Secondly, it's documented that wmode causes performance/compatibility issues with flash especially when you claim it to be transparent. Thus, unless you need to reveal a background of the table behind flash it is recommended that you use wmode='opaque' versus transparent. It'll give you the same results and you will suffer from less performance issues and it'll work under Linux boxes where as transparent will not (the last time I checked). - Nate P.S. If accessibility is a large concern you may want to pull the flash movie out of the general layout and place it into a pop-up window or something so you do not have to claim wmode at all. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Thanks Rogier, I appreciate your help. Since we are likely to have perhaps 1 or 2 users only using any of those browsers, and by far the vast majority of our users are using WindowsXP with IE6 or IE7 (remember this is not a IT related site - our customers are tshirt retailers and advertising agencies) I've decided the cost/benefit of fixing that isn't worth it. The few users inconvenienced by the issue can just use the back button or click on one of the top menu items and get the drop downs from there. Sorry for those people, but them's the breaks. Sometimes you have problems you know are there, but just simply aren't high enough in the priorities to get fixed. I have several other deadlines with this client to meet, and they're far more important than this one. But you're right, Rogier, it ought to be fixed for those users, but it's not going to be unless I have a slow day sometime. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rogier Schoenmaker Sent: Tuesday, 23 October 2007 4:55 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Hello, Just so you know, there's no dropdown shown in Firefox (IceWeasel) for debian, neither for Epiphany and Konquerer doesn't seem to work with flash. Hope it's useful. Regards, Rogier Schoenmaker. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On 10/17/07, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reason for using wmode was to fix the problem that existed before. All I wanted was to make sure the dhtml drop down menu came down on top of the flash movie not underneath it. Is that not the best way ? Mike, unfortunately claiming wmode is the only way to get the drop-downs to come over flash; I just wanted you to be aware that there are accessibility concerns (see the links in my last post) when using wmode. Secondly, it's documented that wmode causes performance/compatibility issues with flash especially when you claim it to be transparent. Thus, unless you need to reveal a background of the table behind flash it is recommended that you use wmode='opaque' versus transparent. It'll give you the same results and you will suffer from less performance issues and it'll work under Linux boxes where as transparent will not (the last time I checked). - Nate P.S. If accessibility is a large concern you may want to pull the flash movie out of the general layout and place it into a pop-up window or something so you do not have to claim wmode at all. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On 17 Oct 2007, at 04:56, Nick Cowie wrote: I was experimenting with HTML over flash, and while param name=wmode value=transparent / works great on Windows. The flash plugin could not get the order right for OsX or *nix, no matter what I tried (source order, z-index etc). It was purely random 50% of the time the flash would appear over the HTML and the other 50% of the time the HTML would appear over the flash file. I was using it on a footer and could just scroll up and down the page a few times to get different results. in my experience wmode transparent doesn't work for any *nix browser - nothing I tried seems to let *nix browsers do anything other than render flash movies on top of everything else... OS X seemed okay mind... YMMV my test: www.boldfishclient.co.uk/go/flash the browsercam results: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=383238 hth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Nick I'm away from my Mac machine for a couple of weeks .. Do you think you (or someone else with a mac) could do me a favour and have a look at the page in question and tell me if the problem is fixed or not on your mac? It's not all that critical for us, because Macs aren't very big amongst our customers - a very small proportion - but if I can set it so it works nice for them so much the better. The page is http://newwaves.com.au/nw/mockingupdemo.cfmIt'll only take a few seconds to determine if the menu drop down under Stock service shows several items or none. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com/ Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Cowie Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 1:57 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash On 16/10/2007, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has fixed the problem for IE6 and Firefox on Windows, so I'm assuming it's fixed for most of our target browsers. Probably not. If your target OSes other than windows, the flash plugin works quite differently on OsX and *nix. I was experimenting with HTML over flash, and while param name=wmode value=transparent / works great on Windows. The flash plugin could not get the order right for OsX or *nix, no matter what I tried (source order, z-index etc). It was purely random 50% of the time the flash would appear over the HTML and the other 50% of the time the HTML would appear over the flash file. I was using it on a footer and could just scroll up and down the page a few times to get different results. So you need to check your menu system on one of those OSes. Just rollover the menu a few times and see what happens. -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On 17 Oct 2007, at 08:01, Michael Kear wrote: Nick I'm away from my Mac machine for a couple of weeks .. Do you think you (or someone else with a mac) could do me a favour and have a look at the page in question and tell me if the problem is fixed or not on your mac? I see the dropdown over the flash on my Mac Pro in Safari and Firefox, but in firefox the font specified for the drop downs is way too small and pixellates... to become unreadable. I'll try and get screenshots to you. hth *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Mike, The drop-down menus drop down over the Flash for me in Safari 2.0.4 (on OS X v10.4.10), but not at all smoothly: the slide-down animation appears to flicker (especially noticeable on the stock service one). The flicker problem is an issue that happens a lot for Safari 2 users (but is fixable). The issue is apparently fixed in Safari 3. Check out http://f6design.com/journal/2007/07/11/safari-3-fixes-flash- flicker-bug/ (particularly the comment by 'Will' explaining how to fix it in Safari 2) I notice the same very illegible text in Firefox for Mac as Tony did. Cheers, Kit *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Michael No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OsX 10.4.9 with FF, Safari or Opera Other than issues above, menu typeface is tiny in both FF and Opera, increasing font size to read them does do damage to the menus with FF, still usable though. Flickering is also visible for me with Safari 2.0.4 ps that flash movie took ages to download. should be split into smaller pieces that get called as movie progresses. Nick *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Michael, No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OSX 10.4.10 with FF, and Safari 419.x (Tiger version (not the new beta)). Ditto on the font being too small on the drop-down menu (see the attachment); and with the movie taking too long to download (you may want to either break the movie up into smaller movies or use the bandwidth profile in flash to help you spread out the download across multiple frames (i.e. download a little up front and then continue the download as needed later so the user doesn't have to wait as long). As for the flickering that people are seeing in Safari... here is a helpful link from Adobe's CSS Advisor: Fixing Safari's wmode flicker.http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/communityengine/index.cfm?event=showdetailsproductId=1postId=1801 Lastly, what was your reasoning for choosing wmode='transparent' typically you only want to do that if you need to reveal something behind flash within the HTML. Transparent wmode is NOT supported by Linux and has issues with some Macintosh browsers (i.e. Safari). If you don't need to reveal anything under flash it's better to use wmode='opaque'. Furthermore, there are accessibility concerns when using wmode (i.e. flash becomes invisible to screen readers when wmode is set; see the following two links: - http://dynamicflash.com/2006/10/flash-accessibility-and-wmode/ - http://justin.everett-church.com/index.php/2006/02/23/wmode-woes/ *%20http://justin.everett-church.com/index.php/2006/02/23/wmode-woes/ Best Regards, Nate On 10/17/07, Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OsX 10.4.9 with FF, Safari or Opera Other than issues above, menu typeface is tiny in both FF and Opera, increasing font size to read them does do damage to the menus with FF, still usable though. Flickering is also visible for me with Safari 2.0.4 ps that flash movie took ages to download. should be split into smaller pieces that get called as movie progresses. Nick *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***attachment: Picture 1.png
RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Thanks for your help Nick, and all the others who helped me with this. This demo file is a rush job, done at a distance - the flash designer is a relative of the client and lives in China, and doesn't understand any English. Makes it difficult. So there are a number of design issues on this site I just accept and try to make the best of it - making it work as well as I can. The client himself has a very clear ides of what he wants, and generally is pretty right about it, but my role is basically to just make it work, rather than provide design advice. There are quite a few things I'd do differently if I had my druthers. I inherited quite a lot of code issues too when I took over the site, and bit by bit I'm rebuilding the site and modernising the code. But like most sites, the client isn't going to rebuild the site that's working. Not as well as it might perhaps, but it's working. Thanks for your help everyone. As always this list has proved knowledgeable and helpful. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com/ Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Cowie Sent: Wednesday, 17 October 2007 8:06 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Michael No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OsX 10.4.9 with FF, Safari or Opera Other than issues above, menu typeface is tiny in both FF and Opera, increasing font size to read them does do damage to the menus with FF, still usable though. Flickering is also visible for me with Safari 2.0.4 ps that flash movie took ages to download. should be split into smaller pieces that get called as movie progresses. Nick *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Gday Nate, Thanks for your comments. The reason for using wmode was to fix the problem that existed before. All I wanted was to make sure the dhtml drop down menu came down on top of the flash movie not underneath it. Is that not the best way ? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com http://afpwebworks.com/ Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nate hanna Sent: Thursday, 18 October 2007 12:59 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash Michael, No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OSX 10.4.10 with FF, and Safari 419.x (Tiger version (not the new beta)). Ditto on the font being too small on the drop-down menu (see the attachment); and with the movie taking too long to download (you may want to either break the movie up into smaller movies or use the bandwidth profile in flash to help you spread out the download across multiple frames ( i.e. download a little up front and then continue the download as needed later so the user doesn't have to wait as long). As for the flickering that people are seeing in Safari... here is a helpful link from Adobe's CSS Advisor: Fixing http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/communityengine/index.cfm?event=showdetailspr oductId=1postId=1801 Safari's wmode flicker. Lastly, what was your reasoning for choosing wmode='transparent' typically you only want to do that if you need to reveal something behind flash within the HTML. Transparent wmode is NOT supported by Linux and has issues with some Macintosh browsers ( i.e. Safari). If you don't need to reveal anything under flash it's better to use wmode='opaque'. Furthermore, there are accessibility concerns when using wmode (i.e. flash becomes invisible to screen readers when wmode is set; see the following two links: * http://dynamicflash.com/2006/10/flash-accessibility-and-wmode/ * http://justin.everett-church.com/index.php/2006/02/23/wmode-woes/ Best Regards, Nate On 10/17/07, Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OsX 10.4.9 with FF, Safari or Opera Other than issues above, menu typeface is tiny in both FF and Opera, increasing font size to read them does do damage to the menus with FF, still usable though. Flickering is also visible for me with Safari 2.0.4 ps that flash movie took ages to download. should be split into smaller pieces that get called as movie progresses. Nick *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
The reason for using wmode was to fix the problem that existed before. All I wanted was to make sure the dhtml drop down menu came down on top of the flash movie not underneath it. Is that not the best way ? I believe he's referring more to your use of wmode = transparent (rather than the more suitable opaque). Setting the wmode at all will fix the issue you were experiencing, and transparent wmode isn't adding anything to your Flash (transparent is supposed to allow a Flash movie to show the HTML background underneath it). Kit *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
I have a page where there are some dhtml menus with drop downs across the top of the page, and a large flash object in the body of one of the pages. However the drop-down menu items are going underneath the flash object so they can't be clicked on. I thought I should just put the flash into a div with a z-index lower than the z-index of the drop down list item, but that doesn't seem to work.Can anyone please tell me how I ought to deal with this? I had a similar problem the other day... after a little searching I found out this useful tip: set the wmode parameter on the flash embed or object to transparent (I think this might only work in Flash Player 9 though) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Michael,
A couple of things to make it work cross-browser:
- Set the Flash element to have wmode set as opaque or transparent
(if you use SWFobject, it's addParam('wmode','opaque');).
- Position a transparent IFRAME behind the menus (really not simple
if it's not functionality written into the menus you're using), which
is required for IE (Win) whenever menus need to go over SELECT boxes
or Flash elements.
- Remove animation from the drop-down for Firefox Mac users (Flash
elements go invisible while the menus slide down otherwise)
One of the more horrible problems drop-down menus experience.
Cheers,
Kit
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RE: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Thanks Michael and Kit, setting the wmode did the trick. Happily I didn't even need to go back to the flash programmer (who's in China and we have a language issue whenever we try to make a change - it's a long story but suffice to say I'm dealing with the designer in China like it or not!) Anyway for those who are following along at home, all I had to do was change the html code where it embeds the flash object in the page to add 'wmode','transparent' to the AC_FL_RunContent function parameters and param name=wmode value=transparent / to the object tag parameters. This has fixed the problem for IE6 and Firefox on Windows, so I'm assuming it's fixed for most of our target browsers. Thanks again for your help folks. Helped out a poor old developer-turned-designer-by-force once again. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
Kit Grose wrote: One of the more horrible problems drop-down menus experience. It appears it is universal, a client said he wanted a site similar to www.time.com Going there, guess what the top menu does... http://www.time.com/time/business Bruce bkdesign *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
On 16/10/2007, Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has fixed the problem for IE6 and Firefox on Windows, so I'm assuming it's fixed for most of our target browsers. Probably not. If your target OSes other than windows, the flash plugin works quite differently on OsX and *nix. I was experimenting with HTML over flash, and while param name=wmode value=transparent / works great on Windows. The flash plugin could not get the order right for OsX or *nix, no matter what I tried (source order, z-index etc). It was purely random 50% of the time the flash would appear over the HTML and the other 50% of the time the HTML would appear over the flash file. I was using it on a footer and could just scroll up and down the page a few times to get different results. So you need to check your menu system on one of those OSes. Just rollover the menu a few times and see what happens. -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] How to make DHML cover flash
I have a page where there are some dhtml menus with drop downs across the
top of the page, and a large flash object in the body of one of the pages.
However the drop-down menu items are going underneath the flash object so
they can't be clicked on. I thought I should just put the flash into a
div with a z-index lower than the z-index of the drop down list item, but
that doesn't seem to work.Can anyone please tell me how I ought to deal
with this?
Here's what I have:
In the menus:
style
.dropmenudiv {
z-index : 800;
}
/style
ul
limenu item 1/li
liMenu item 2/li
Etc
/ul
!--1st drop down menu --
div id=dropmenu1 class=dropmenudiv
a href=/nw/tshirtsstock.cfmT Shirts/a
a href=/nw/polosstock.cfmPolos/a
a href=/nw/singletsstock.cfmSinglets/a
a href=/nw/sweatersstock.cfmSweaters/a
a href=/nw/shortsstock.cfmShorts/a
a href=/nw/rashtopsstock.cfmRash Tops/a
a href=/nw/clearance.cfmClearance/a
/div
And in the flash object:
div style=z-index: 1;
[flash object code here]
/div
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