Re: [WSG] text field size tag
I'd say that the size is an intrinsic dimension of the input element, and - similar to what happens with images - it's ok to have it in your xhtml. You can still use css in addition to it. But I think at the end of the day it comes down to preference... Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Accessability IE Toolbar
From: Lee Roberts [...] the average computer user wouldn't know how to do those things. Once more, with gusto: the toolbar is for *developers*, not average *users* Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] title, can it be used on a label
I've looked on the W3C.org site and I don't see any mention of the title attribute being allowed or not allowed on elements other than images and links. title is part of the core attributes which can be applied to pretty much everything (with a few exceptions) http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/dtds.html#dtdentry_xhtml1-strict.dtd_coreattrs Patrick H. Lauke __ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Tabs
I think what he meant was: the tabs don't highlight on hover in IE, and how to get around that. If I wasn't knackered (and heck, it's 1:34 in the morning here), I'd spend a few minutes devising a javascript solution (or completely reorganising the xhtml so that the A element is the one containing all the backgrounds, so the :hover can take effect in IE), but I'd give the IE7.htc behaviours a whirl with this, they should be able to give IE the :hover on any element (but yes, this effectively still relies on having js enabled) Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] how do I add a navigation type menu in CSS
Two ways that spring to mind: float the menu to the left and leave enough padding on the content's left side to compensate (although this may be flaky in certain situations), or use absolute positioning to put both the menu and the content on the page... Effectively, it's a simple 2 column layout. Patrick __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com - Original Message - From: neen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: [WSG] how do I add a navigation type menu in CSS Hi, I've been trying to do a left hand navigation menu in CSS and have been having trouble getting the main content area to align next to the menu instead of below the menu. Can anyone share some tips or tutorials that can help me complete this task. thanks neen * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] About the standard Price for our website design .
Call me overly cautious, but I don't think this is a topic for discussion... http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Acollusion Patrick H. Lauke __re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com
Re: [WSG] Comment syntax in external javascript files?
Of course you don't want to have the script tag in the external js file. script is an (x)html tag, so it does not belong in a text/javascript file. Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com - Original Message - From: Seona Bellamy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 12:47 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Comment syntax in external javascript files? Just a quick related question, but when you put your javascript into an external file, do you need to put the script tags into the file as well? Or do you just have the code in there and then call it in via the script tag below? Cheers, Seona. Quoting Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: script type=text/javascript src=thing.js/script I do it as per Dan's example above. It validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict and I haven't identified any problems with it Cheers, Lachlan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] [Fwd: New XHTML 2.0 draft, HTML/XHTML FAQ, XML Events for HTML Authors]
- Original Message - From: Mordechai Peller [...] The worst part of all this is it'll be years before we'll be able to use the new toys in any meaningful way. You could already use them server-side, then transform them to xhtml1.0 or 1.1 before serving them to the client, but yes...apart from the benefits to those maintaining the files, there's not much gain from that. So yes, we wait :) Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] [Fwd: New XHTML 2.0 draft, HTML/XHTML FAQ, XML Events for HTML Authors]
- Original Message - From: Mordechai Peller [...] While transforming from XHTML 1.0 or 1.1 is a trivial task, from XHTML 2 to even 1.1 is not so. In some cases there's no equivalent (di), in others there's more than one choice depending on the CSS (l = span, br, li, p). Yes, I'm aware of that. Maybe I should have expanded a bit more: you can use the nicer, more structured semantics of xhtml2 for the documents you create (and even send them to more modern browsers which will be able to cope with them directly), and then use xslt to create the more traditional (read: ad-hoc, slightly non-semantic) chunks of code in xhtml1.x which rely on adding those extra hooks via divs and spans. You will still have to get your hands down and dirty by crafting some rather convoluted transformations, and the css to then style the outcome. As I said, really a futile exercise for the most part, but it would enable you, the author, to leverage the more structurally accurate markup for the purpose of document creation/maintenance. Or something along those lines anyway (on the other hand, since it's just about 2am here, it may just be that I need some sleep, or another hobby) Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Fixed vs flexible layouts
- Original Message - From: Patrick Griffiths [snip] I don't see what the big deal is. You can just take a pixel-laden layout and replace values with suitable ems values. Why isn't this realistic? until we have fully supported scalable vectors, images will either not resize (changing the font size on the zengarden example, you end up with illegible chopped off text) or look crud when attempting ad-hoc i'll use ems instead of pixels for width/height methods. Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Ikon, where are you?
- Original Message - From: theGrafixGuy [snip] It is NOT hard at all to do as you said, unsubscribe or simply set up a filter - better yet, DON'T EVEN USE AUTO-REPLY. If you work in large organisations, out of office is usually mandated or at least very strongly recommended, particularly if you're going to be away for more than a day or two. And yes, it's not hard to unsubscribe from a list or set up a filter...but once you are subscribe to 20+, it's easy enough to forget one or two if you're working up to the last minute of your last day. My GBP0.02 P __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk | http://redux.deviantart.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Why has the background jumped to the right in IE?
Not looked too closely at your markup or existing CSS, but adding
#specials_pane { position: absolute; top: 0; }
seems to cure the problem in IE6
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively. [latin : re-,
re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
http://www.splintered.co.uk | http://www.photographia.co.uk |
http://redux.deviantart.com
- Original Message -
From: Seona Bellamy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WSG List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:16 AM
Subject: [WSG] Why has the background jumped to the right in IE?
Hi guys,
If you have a look at this page in IE6/Win (not sure if it does the same
in
IE5 or not) you might see that the Today's Special box is floating out
over the main content. It is supposed to sit under the picture that it
beside it and to the right. It did this perfectly yesterday, and does it
fine in Mozilla, but today it doesn't want to sit right and I can't figure
out why.
In the same browser, the right menu bar is also not showing up anymore.
Again, I can't work out where it's gone or why.
Please, can some kind soul have a peek and tell me why it doesn't work?
http://216.119.123.23/
Thanks in advance,
Seona.
__
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for me
You can use it too - and it's FREE! http://www.ellaforspam.com
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Re: [WSG] HTML CSS references
If you're using FF with the webdev extension, you can quickly (ok, relatively quickly) go to Miscellaneous W3C Documents for reference. At least that's what I end up doing most of the time... Patrick -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility
Well, first of all...what do you mean by doctype javascript? Secondly, what happens when javascript is not available/enabled? Does it provide the page provide the same links even when the javascript is not executed? If not, no, it's not accessible. Unless I'm misunderstanding your intention, what you're trying to do should be done via server-side includes, not javascript... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PHP GET session ID's prevent validation?
If you have access to php.ini, make sure you change arg_separator.input
and arg_separator.output to
arg_separator.input = 'amp;'
arg_separator.output = 'amp;'
You may be able to do this in an .htaccess file
php_value arg_separator.input 'amp;'
php_value arg_separator.output 'amp;'
As a last resort, you may be able to override it at the beginning of all
your scripts in PHP itself
ini_set('arg_separator.input','amp;');
ini_set('arg_separator.output','amp;');
Patrick H. Lauke
_
redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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Re: [WSG] Some light reading...
russ - maxdesign wrote: [snip] Redesign of WWF UK: http://www.wwf.org.uk/core/index.asp Andy talks about the redesign of WWF UK: http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/wwf.html Maybe nitpicking, but it's worth noting that Andy redesigned (quite fantastically, may I add) the WWF store http://shop.wwf.org.uk/store/Home.aspx and not, as the above suggests initially, the core WWF site itself (unless I'm mistaken, anyway) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] floating an image hides the container's background
If you float all the content of a div, you take that content out of the
normal document flow. The containing div is now empty, and doesn't wrap
around the floated elements anymore...it's still there, but has a height
of 0 (or well, of whatever non-floated content is left there, in your case).
Either keep one element non floating, or add something with a clear
property after the floated elements.
Patrick
Scott Reston wrote:
I'm experiencing a problem with Mozilla/Safari. I have a container div with a
background and two floated elements inside it. when I float one, I get the infamous IE
3px bug[1]. so... I float both (since this avoids the problem with the 3px bug) and
the background of the containing div vanishes.
with float applied to div and image:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/obrienatkinsx/test1.html
with float applied only to the div:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/obrienatkinsx/test2.html
the elements in question are:
div#content-main #portfolio-text {
margin: 0;
float: left;
padding-top: 30px;
width: 186px;
font-size: .8em;
}
img#portfolio-image {
float: left;
width: 465px; height: 465px;
margin-left: 1px; padding: 0;
}
[1] http://positioniseverything.net/explorer/threepxtest.html
can someone give me some guidance on this?
thanks!
Scott Reston
Director, Web Development
Capstrat
919/882.1966 v
919/834.7959 f
1201 Edwards Mill Road, Suite 102
Raleigh, NC 27607
www.capstrat.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:04 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Some light reading...
Westciv's free online CSS course - week 1 of CSS Level 1:
http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/index.html
A Better Image Rotator:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterrotator/
WaSP Interviews Jim Ramsey on the redesign of The San Francisco Examiner
http://www.webstandards.org/learn/interviews/jramsey/
Pixy-style CSS no-preload rollovers, with PNG support for IE
http://devilock.mine.nu/pixie/
Redesign of WWF UK:
http://www.wwf.org.uk/core/index.asp
Andy talks about the redesign of WWF UK:
http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/wwf.html
New PGA site launch:
http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/2004/
Behind the scenes of PGA rebuild:
http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/001797.shtml
Learning CSS:
http://9rules.com/whitespace/design/learning_css.php
Thanks
Russ
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--
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
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Re: [WSG] image placement
How's this:
p { background: url(someimage.png) no-repeat left top; }
p:first-letter { padding-left: 15px; }
Works in IE5.5 onwards. 5 and below don't quite get it, I'm afraid. If 5
is your target, you may have to resort to using a sacrificial span
pspan/spanblah blah.../p
and the convoluted
p { background: url(arrow_on.png) no-repeat left top; }
p span { padding-left: 15px; display: block; float: left;}
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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Re: [WSG] image placement
Lea de Groot wrote: [...] Would that work? I was thinking of text-indent, but it only does the one line. [...] Ooh, neat! How does it figure out the height to leave for the image? ah, when you said small graphic, i thought you meant something *really* small. If it spans more than one line, this won't work, obviously, and you should stick with another sacrificial element instead. Personally, I dont see the point in taking out an img tag to add a span tag :) some will argue that it gives you added flexibility if you want to change the image (and its dimensions) later. You only need to do it in the CSS once, and not finding/replacing the image tag throughout potentially multiple pages. Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] applying style to the 3rd column of a table?
You may want to look at COLGROUPs
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4
Patrick H. Lauke
Justin French wrote:
Hi Folks,
Is there any way (without ids or classes) to target the 3rd (for
example) column of a table to apply styles?
What I'm hoping for is something like...
table td[3]{ text-align:right; }
... but I can't see anything like that in my references.
TIA
---
Justin French
http://indent.com.au
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--
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
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Re: [WSG] Techniques for Styling Columns in Tables?
we talked about colgroups just the other day, i think http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.4.1 Patrick Geoff Deering wrote: Hi, Does anyone have any reference for applying styles to columns in tables in a semantically correct way, without having to code class attr into each TD.? Can it be done? Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Online browser XTHML editor
I use www.editize.com extensively on all my projects for client admin area, but yes...it's a java plugin, and it's not completely free. Patrick Sarah Peeke (XERT) wrote: Hi all Can anyone recommend a browser based editor (preferably written in PHP) that will allow clients to update code themselves, but that outputs standards compliant XHTML? I am not interested in a full CMS, this is just for updating page snippets etc. I have come across WYSIWYG Pro which looks good. Thanks Sarah -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] tab index vs java script in xhtml 1.0
Name is still perfectly valid for form elements (inputs, selects, etc), just not for the FORM element itself. http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_forms In any case, you should be using DOM scripting (with IDs assigned to the relevant elements and getElementById or similar), which works just fine. Patrick Herrod, Lisa wrote: Looking for opinions on the use of javascript for input control focus and tab index, instead of actually using the 'tabindex' attribute... I understnd that incomplete browser support of tabindex might influence this choice, ie javascript. But this would then force the use of the 'name' attribute which is formally deprecated in xhtml 1.0. I guess it improves accessibility but reduces compliance. Any thoughts? Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
When done properly, with due care for which parent container it uses, absolute positioning yields a lot more robust results, imho. It would be dangerous to simply dismiss absolute positioning in favour of floats. You've just got to be careful in how you position things, to avoid potential problems of things overlapping or not scaling properly at different browser sizes. Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed someone made the comment that the preferred floats to absolute positioning. I have just created a new design using absolute positioning. It 'seems' to work across IE, Mozilla, Opera and latest Netscape (I'm trying to forget about NS4.7). But what is the consensus amongst my esteemed colleagues here? Am I walking into a trap? Are there flaws in absolute positioning so terrible that something will break dreadfully somewhere? AS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] RE: PHP, FORMS and XHTML validation
James Ellis wrote: There is a setting in your php.ini file to turn off auto propagation of your session id's via URLs (enable_trans_sid I believe). This is good for validation (if you are having amp; problems in URLs) and very good for security. Correct me if i'm wrong, but: without trans_sid, any browser that does not support cookies (e.g. lynx and co) will not be able to keep a session alive. With regards to accessbility, I'd shy away from this (of course, if all you're doing is storing information for non mission-critical fluff like stylesheet switcher info and similar, this is not a big deal). Same thing if users are rejecting the cookie (either knowingly or because of some draconian IT department's settings on their browser). Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Duplicate buttons
well, imagine the user has a screenreader or braille display and is tabbing through the form . they end up on the first submit button, and have no way of knowing that there's more after that button, so they submit it at the first intermediate step...not good. why not split up the form over multiple screens instead (or even better, offer two options: multi-page or one single long form - with only one submit button at the end). additionally, you could provide an access key for the submit button, enabling keyboard users to quickly skip to the end and submit. and another thought: skip links to go to the end of the form (which benefit all users, and do pretty much what you're aiming to do). but i'd definitely recommend not having intermediate buttons... Patrick H. Lauke Taco Fleur wrote: I have been putting duplicate buttons on one form when its a long form, so the user does not have to scroll. I have been told its not good for accessibility, what's the go? *Taco Fleur* Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Duplicate buttons
Unfortunately browser like lynx ignore tabindices, and some older versions of Mozilla get it wrong and make it impossible to tab to anything which doesn't have a tabindex as soon as you use elements with tabindex. Moreover, especially on long forms, even if you could rely on tabindex, you'd start pulling your hairs out having to add tabindices to every single form element (as otherwise the browser will still cycle through the ones with a tabindex, no matter how high/low you set it, before tabbing through the non-tabindexed elements). So overall, I still don't think that's a viable solution. Why not go for skip to the end of the form type links (they can even be graphical for sighted users)? Seems to me these would be the least bothersome, and not about to break even in older browsers... Patrick Mordechai Peller wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: well, imagine the user has a screenreader or braille display and is tabbing through the form . they end up on the first submit button, and have no way of knowing that there's more after that button, so they submit it at the first intermediate step...not good. That's not a problem. All you need to do is make sure the tab indexes are higher than than the last element. Also, iirc, setting the tab index to -1 will make it unaccessible by tabbing; just make sure you don't do that to the last one. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web essentials briefing/ westciv CSS Guide
Frederic Fery wrote: What's the (standard) benefit of using firefox over safari for testing? Safari and Firefox have slightly different quirks and bugs when it comes to rendering CSS, so it's best to check in both (and, as Firefox is also used on many other platforms - Windows, *nix, etc - it's probably in your best interest to at least get an idea how your pages render in it) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
You just realised it, but this has been a huge part of the whole image replacement discussion from the beginning. http://www.google.com/search?q=accessibility+image+replacement+css No, there's no way to test if images are turned off. Use techniques that don't actually hide the original text. but just cover it (I lost track which one of the *IR techniques does). If all else fails, go back to tried and tested stick and image in your source code. If it's a heading, you can still wrap the image tag like so: h1img src=... alt=your heading text //h1 Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
just checked the various IR methods. your best bet looks like Gilder/Levin and/or the Shea enhancement http://www.mezzoblue.com/tests/revised-image-replacement/ Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
Sorry Cameron, but I think that you're taking it a step too far here. At the end of the day, those who work with the CSS can order it any way they please and that works for them. This is all about personal preference and working styles, and separation of content and style has nothing to do with it. IMHO, anyway. Patrick Cameron Adams wrote: If you think about it, ordering IDs in the order that they appear in the HTML goes against the grain of XHTML/CSS separation of content and style. If you change the position of an object in the HTML, then you have to change it in the CSS, otherwise your order becomes meaningless. The best way is to have an order independent of the HTML content, such as alphabetical. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Brian Duchek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm 100% with Andy on this one. My coding style (pun intended) usually falls into the source ordered approach (i.e. the ID selectors will be found in the CSS in the same order that they appear in the HTML document). I'll do grouping of helper classes as well, as I use them as sort of utilities. Within each class or selector statement, I'll let my editor (DW or Topstyle) place them for me. At most it ends up being 10 short lines of text, and easy enough to scan quickly and identify what's what. I do tend to put any hacks or unusual approaches at the bottom of the definition. Cheers! Brian Duchek www.inquiline.com On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:33:23 +0100, Andy Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created. Are you meaning in a micro or macro sense. i.e. how to structure sets of statement within a stylesheet or how to structure a set of declarations within a statement? If it's the former there tend to be a couple of main ways. One is to group statements into logical types, such as all layout goes in one place, all text stuff in another. However I personally break this info into separate stylesheets as I find it easier to manage. Another popular way is to structure stylesheets based on selector type, so you may have all element selectors first, then all id's and lastly all classes. I can see the logic behind this but it's not something I favour. The way I tend to arrange statements is by position in the flow of the document. So I'll have all universal statements at the top, then statements relating to the header, nav, content and finally footer statements at the bottom. This works well for me, but I do often find that I'll need to add a new statement later that's the same of similar to one I already have. Rather than taking the original statement out and putting it up top with the universal statements, I tend just to tack a new selector on. This means that sometimes statements aren't always exactly matching the flow of the document. This is fine if you've only got one person working on the CSS, but would get confusing if you've got multiple people using the same file. As for arranging declarations within a statement, because statements don't tend to be so long, I generally don't have a format. I simply put them in the order I write them in. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Brian Duchek =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c: 847.809.2140 w: www.inquiline.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
To clarify my previous message: what I mean is Cameron Adams wrote: If you change the position of an object in the HTML, then you have to change it in the CSS, otherwise your order becomes meaningless. Yes, it becomes meaningless in that it makes it more convoluted to work with, *but* it does not mean that it won't work. There is no dependency here between the order in which it appears in the XHTML and the CSS (unless you have deep dark cascade dependencies going on where the order is indeed important). Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interview markup?
I'd go for definition lists, overkill or not. dl dtQ/dt ddA/dd /dl Failing that, the question could be in headings h1interview/h1 h2Q1/h2 p.../p h2Q2/h2 p.../p Patrick Sage Olson wrote: Oops, sorry I wasn't more specific I meant a large interview that takes up an entire article, something like this: http://www.macthemes.net/articles/insider/000189.php (Note: I'm not a staff member or anything of MacThemes.) They've used bold tags to indicate the interviewer's questions, and regular text to indicate the interviewee's answer. However, I'd like a more semantic way of doing it, if there is one (I'm not sure if definition lists would be overkill, but everybody seems to be using them for just about everything these days). -Sage On Sep 4, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Lennart Fylling wrote: Sage Olson wrote: What is the most semantic way to markup an interview? I believe it must be cite/cite and for bigger phrases, you can useblockquote title= /blockquote Correct me someone if I'm wrong. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browsing without images
James Denholm-Price wrote: Dunno if the assumption about screen readers not loading images is correct, though... The main mistake in that article is that, for the most part, screen readers don't do anything on their own. They're pieces of software which run on top of the normal operating system. To browse the web, a blind person uses IE, Firefox or whatever, with screen reader software interpreting the output of said browser. Therefore, it's not about whether screen readers load images...it's about the browser that the user is running. (caveat: there are older pieces of software, not completely screen readers but more like custom talking browsers, which can behave differently...but they're certainly the exception) I'm not particularly fond of PPK's solution, as it only allows for two scenarios: CSS+javascript - to get nice image replacement - or bare bones text. No middle ground for just CSS. As I said, the safest option are those techniques that cover the original text with an image, without hiding the underlying text via visibility:hidden, display:none or text-indent:-1000em or whatever. Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Copyright image or text inside the photo
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/watermark-images-php Diego Diaz wrote: Hello, there I am read tutoriales and documents about captions inside the images, but even I do not know as to put a small text or image of copyright that be generated automatically in a photo published in my gallery. There show an example of what would desire. see - bottom right of the photo the example. http://diego.chiledalnet.cl/pesleon.jpg If someone can help me, I will be very thanked Greetings. - Diego Diaz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] accessible audio-visual content
Russ linked to it before, but: http://joeclark.org/access/captioning/bpoc/ is worth a read. For video, you may consider using Magpie http://www.google.com/search?q=magpie+video+captioning For audio, a full transcript should be enough (as a separate document). Patrick Vicki Berry wrote: Hi all, I have a client who wants some audio-visual content on his site. He wants to stream interviews etc like a radio channel - but not live, at this point. There will also be some video clips. (All of these will be downloadable, and not play automatically.) The client represents a local govt agency I have made him aware of accessibility issues and he is keen to comply. That's a double bonus for me, as a hearing-impaired person - I might actually get to find out what is being said! :-) So... what's the best way to caption audio content? Is it possible (or practical) to do it in real time? And if so, what format should be used for the audio file and how do I set about adding captions? Or is a text alternative considered acceptable? How is video content usually made accessible? I don't recall ever seeing video on the web that's been accessible to *me*... though there's been some nice Breeze presentations sent to me from Macromedia that work really well. (The cost of Breeze means it's not an option here.) I believe Flash does real-time captioning etc - is the Flash server required for this? (That's not an option either.) And do sight-impaired people have problems with video content even when it is captioned? What other disabilities do I need to consider when it comes to video content? Sorry for all the questions. I guess I know most of the you musts but now it's a matter of finding out the hows. :-) Vicki. :-) Perth, Western Australia. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [offlist][WSG] Free GMail Invites
Somebody needs to learn how to send things off-list... Can this thread be closed now? P AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: Dear Dmitri, Would you please give me one if there is any left. Thanks in advance, Behzad - Original Message - From: Dmitri Vassilenko [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Free GMail Invites Got a few to give away as well. Email off-list, please. Dmitri ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The way forward for Web Standards
Dan Webb wrote: I've got Firefox 0.9.2...is it worth getting v1.0PR? If you're reliant on specific extensions with your current FF, just double check that they're compatible with 1.0PR before making the switch. Beyond that, it looks like a reasonably stable release (although it does feel just a tad more sluggish than 0.9.3 on my old PIII 800) On a related topic, Thunderbird 0.8 is perfect and natively incorporates a lot of features that 0.7 needed extensions for...well worth an upgrade as well. Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Footer stuff
The semantics obviously depend on what stuff | more stuff and stuff too | more stuff again actually are... Patrick Amit Karmakar wrote: Apologies if this has been discussed before. What is better in terms of semantics and accessibility? div id=footer pstuff | more stuffbr / stuff too | more stuff again/p /div or div id=footer ullistuff/li | limore stuff/li listuff too/li | limore stuff again/li/ul /div Obviously the first one uses a br / to differentiate 2 lines, which I am sure can be done many other ways too. The second method in my opinion has more control over the information as it uses lis instead of p, would it be right to say ps need be used more in the content area instead of footers. Would appreciate your feedback on this. Regards, Amit Karmakar http://karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Footer stuff
adam reitsma wrote: div id=footer ullistuff/li | limore stuff/li/ul ullistuff too/li | limore stuff again/li/ul /div Drop those | in between list items, as it's not valid markup (probably just an oversight, but it's best to clarify nonetheless) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tidy extension for Firefox
Kevin Futter wrote: Is it OS or version specific? It's windows only. http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=249vid=716page=releases Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Embedding Flash
Ian Fenn wrote: I wrote: Anyone notice Zeldman's recently announcement Sorry for the typo. It's 2.40am here in the UK. Time to get some shut-eye. Kids nowadays...no staying power. ;) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] help with fixed positioning in IE
john wrote: The page with the CSS code for fixed positioning in IE is at http://limpid.nl/lab/css/fixed/header Interesting...although I wonder why Anne didn't actually construct proper html documents with a html, head and body...because it seems to work in that situation as well? Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] help with fixed positioning in IE
Focas, Grant wrote: john, the solution requires putting the an html comment above the doctype declaration. If the aim is to throw IE into quirks mode, I'd imagine that one may also consider just sticking the xml declaration there (but haven't got the time to test this assertion). Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Positioning Quandry
Joseph Lindsay wrote: Also, when positioning within a container even though it is implicit, its good to also specify position: relative; to the container's selector. I'm not sure if this is in the spec or not Section 9.8.4. of the CSS2.1 spec http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#q28 The containing block for a positioned box is established by the nearest positioned ancestor (or, if none exists, the initial containing block, as in our example). Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Preventing flash of unstyled content
knowing the name of the problem is half-way to finding a solution already... http://www.google.com/search?q=%22flash+of+unstyled+content%22 Patrick David wrote: Hello everyone, Does anybody know how to prevent the flash of (CSS)unstyled content that appears when a page is loading and the browser is yet to download and apply the stylesheet to the web page? I know I read about a technique for preventing this somewhere (maybe o on this list) but I can't remember. So can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks David ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PNGs and IE windows
Kevin Futter wrote: My understanding is that while IE Win supports the display of PNG files, it doesn't support any of their transparency features. If you want to use transparency for images in a cross-browser safe way, GIF is really your only option. I wouldn't be holding my breath for IE to catch up either ... PNG-8 works fine (1 bit transparency, like GIF) in IE. It's PNG-24 (8 bit transparency) that IE struggles to understand, but there are tricks that can be used http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/ Depending on your needs, you can also just use a PNG-8 and then replace it with a PNG-24 in capable browsers (either via javascript or purely via CSS, e.g. http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/19/ ) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] AOHell
Tim Shortt wrote: You have to actually test on an AOL account to really see any affect of this (or any other) behavior (versus just running a local AOL browser, which I did for years). If you're really, really committed (or just masochistic) to testing it, but want to avoid having to actually get an AOL account, you can also run your own server http://www.aolserver.com/ and do testing on your local setup under true battle conditions...either that, or you have an secret desire to delve into Tcl development ;) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] hta files and css
Debbie Riendeau wrote: I'm self teaching myself web design. I'm in a class right now that is very lightly going over hta for css. If anyone can provide me with some links that would better understand this I would appreciate it. http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/author/hta/overview/htaoverview.asp Also, would appreciate any links to tutorials on css positioning. http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/default.asp Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
Neerav wrote: so go for html 4 transitional validation if the clients tables will always be invalid If you know for sure that the markup is going to be invalid, why bother with a doctype at all? It's a bit like putting a may contain nuts sticker on a bag of peanuts... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PNGs and IE windows
Hey, no worries. Glad it helped :) P Wayne Godfrey wrote: Patrick, Thank you for the both links and the explanation of PNGs. I got a bit overwhelmed in reading the link info and forgot my manners, so please forgive me, but I do thank you for the info, it's been a great help. Again, Thanks, wayne On 9/29/04 7:52 PM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: My understanding is that while IE Win supports the display of PNG files, it doesn't support any of their transparency features. If you want to use transparency for images in a cross-browser safe way, GIF is really your only option. I wouldn't be holding my breath for IE to catch up either ... PNG-8 works fine (1 bit transparency, like GIF) in IE. It's PNG-24 (8 bit transparency) that IE struggles to understand, but there are tricks that can be used http://www.alistapart.com/articles/pngopacity/ Depending on your needs, you can also just use a PNG-8 and then replace it with a PNG-24 in capable browsers (either via javascript or purely via CSS, e.g. http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/19/ ) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Consider this very simple HTML document: ... How could leaving out the doctype make such a definite difference to such a simple page? The crucial part of my answer was: If you know for sure that the markup *is going to be invalid* The example you provide is of valid markup. I tried corrupting the code, but interestingly, on Firefox and Opera, even when the markup is blatantly broken, the doctype keeps the browser in standards mode (or almost-standards mode, as the case may be). Interesting...seems the wrong behaviour to me, but still interesting... You learn something odd/new every day :) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
John wrote: Many marketing groups would never accept replacing the content of the current browser window of their site with the content of an external site. Is there some standard way to give the user control of popups, such as a checbox (maybe somewhat obscured from visual browsers)? Don't imagine that users of visual browsers are automatically free of disabilities. Think for instance about users with learning disabilities...they too would get confused by a new window being popped up, effectively breaking the back button navigation. The best thing to do, if the client is absolutely adamant that new windows be popped up, is to give users enough direct clues that activating a link will indeed open a new window (e.g. adding (opens in a new window) to the link text of title attribute, adding an icon - for instance via css' background property - or similar) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Wayne Godfrey wrote: Even with the tab browsers that I've tried, I still end up opening a new tab more often than using the back and forward buttons. Key here is *I* [...] ended up opening a new tab. You, the user, made that choice. Not the web author/developer... Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Manuel González Noriega wrote: Often, markup errors, like natural language errors, are most likely typos than anything else. Therefore, i don't really learn anything from them You learn that you should validate anything before making it live (just like you'd spell-check and proofread anything before going to publication in the print world, for instance). ;) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] anchors within a page
Two ideas spring to mind: - wrap the entire page content in a div with a specific ID, and change the link to point to that body div id=top a href='#top ... /div /body - taking it one step further (and admittedly a bit crazy, but seems to work fine in FF, IE and Opera from my really quick testing) add an ID to the body element itself and link to that body id=top ... a href=#top ,,, /body Patrick john wrote: Hello, group. I want to put a top of page link in the footer of one of my sites, so instead of using the a name= tag, I a href= to one of my ID's. The problem is, I've used z-index in the CSS so that the header and nav stay put when scrolling...but it doesn't work in IE. The result is that, in IE, when you hit the to the top link, it doesn't take you all the to the top of the page (where you can see the header and nav). What I need is better solution. It's probably very obvious and I just can't formulate it at the moment. Any suggestions? You can see an example at http://www.drzeus.net/redesign/cslewis/faq/ Thanks! -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] anchors within a page
Paul Novitski wrote: At 12:05 PM 10/6/2004, john wrote: Why not just put a name=content/a at the top of the page? Probably because it doesn't look or feel (from a markup point of view) like an elegant, modern solution. Some browsers don't appear to need a corresponding named anchor if the link is to #top. As far as I can tell, every modern browser (greater than generation 4) can handle fragment identifiers (i.e. linking to a certain element with a specific ID, rather than using named anchors). Even the later versions of Lynx support it. Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Shane Helm wrote: I have also become a better and cleaner coder since I switched to XHTML CSS. Table-less layout rules! But, to clarify: there's nothing, absolutely nothing at all, stopping you from going all CSS-driven, table-less, separation of content and presentation, etc in HTML 4 - just as it's still perfectly feasible to do a completely table-driven layout even in XHTML 1.1. These two quite separate issues should not be confused, or made synonymous (similar to the xhtml is better for accessibility myth) Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
One that I know, but there may be more: in HTML, body is the size of the entire viewport, even if it's empty. In XHTML, it's just like any other block level elements and takes on the dimensions of its content (and if you float everything in the body, it effectively is 0 pixels high). If you define a background colour just in the body, in XHTML it may not cover the entire viewport of your browser if the content is shorter than the viewport itself...so you should apply background colour etc to the HTML element instead Patrick John Horner wrote: Can anyone explain what this means in that article? * A CSS stylesheet written for an HTML4 document is interpreted slightly differently in an XHTML context (e.g. the body element is not magical in XHTML In what ways might body be magical? Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 2110 Senior Developer, ABC Online http://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Chris Stratford wrote: I use XHTML Strict, and have modded the DTD to accept New Window code. What always makes me wonder about these solutions is that, in effect, they are still reliant on the fact that current browsers have the built-in understanding and capability of reacting a certain way (i.e. popping up a new window) when they encounter something like target=_blank. It's not the DTD that automatically causes this behaviour, it only tells the browser that it's ok to have those attributes in the code. If (I know, unlikely in the foreseeable future) a browser came out that only understood anything from xhtml 1.0 strict onwards, I wonder how this type of functionality could be forced. Surely, beyond modifying a DTD, there must be some additional piece of behavioural code that will have to be passed on to the user agent? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole eXtensible nature of XHTML here? Hypothetically speaking, anyway... Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] thoughts of external links in new window?
Terrence Wood wrote: Having said all that Chris's solution of having extended and published the DTD is perfectly acceptable. Yes, sorry...I wasn't questioning the validity of Chris' solution per se. I was just taking a step back to look at the bigger picture, beyond mere validation, to what it actually means to create your own DTD and how any effect is still dependent on legacy (well, if you consider xhtml 1.0 transitional and before as legacy) behaviour hardcoded into the UA so that it can cope with older code. Extending a DTD to allow for deprecated elements/attributes is a working solution today, but is more akin, in my humble opinion, to those methods that rely on javascript to pepper a document with legacy code onload so that it passes validation but then - after the DOM has been manipulated - in effect turns into invalid code. Not passing judgement, merely observing that if there were a strict browser out there, even a hand-rolled DTD allowing target=_blank would not actually mean that the UA would understand your intentions... Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Validator error
Well, I tried recreating a simple document like the one you describe, with missing ALT attribute on the image...but can't seem to reproduce the slew of errors you're reporting. Any chance you can upload the broken page so we can have a look if there's anything specific to your document that may be causing this behaviour? Patrick Mordechai Peller wrote: Let me start by saying that I have enough experience with syntax checker to know that the error message doesn't always point to the right place and that one error can generate many messages. But that being said, I think this one takes the cake. The DOCTYPE was set to XHTML 1.0 STRICT and the page had an image missing an alt attribute on line 68 so of course it didn't validate. But instead of just a Line 68, column 104: required attribute alt not specified, I got eight more errors, five before and three after, all reference to non-SGML character. Fix the missing alt error and everything else validates. What's going on? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] w3c badges
Make sure to grab my served as 'application/xhtml+xml' where available badge ;) http://www.splintered.co.uk/about/ Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Validator error
Mordechai Peller wrote: what I would like to know is Why? ok, but the What wasn't quite clear, hence my question. Try: div img src= / p#151;Test/p /div Ok, see what you mean now. Well, for the Why I think the only explanation that I can think of is you may be experiencing a cascade failure one error that gets The Validator so confused that it can't make sense of the rest of your page. Try correcting the first few errors and running your page through The Validator again. (from http://validator.w3.org/docs/help.html#munged-doctype). For a more specific answer, it may be worth contacting the W3C validator team directly... Patrick _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] breaking long urls
Is there any way to force word wrap, even on single words such as urls in a valid cross browser friendly way? I think the short answer would be no. Depending on the exact need you have, you could set a specific width and overflow:hidden to the block containing the url, in which case they'll simply appear cut off. Otherwise, you may have to resolve to chopping up the link text with the url server-side. Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] should you refuse to support IE?
Chris Blown wrote: Did I mention I hate analogies. ;) as in your expansion of the analogy you're blaming *users* of IE, rather than the developers that purely cater for IE and/or the programmers at MS who made the leaky car, i'd say it's not too accurate anyway ;) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Jason, haven't got direct experience in doing this, but my gut feeling would be to encode everything in unicode (UTF-8) as it should cover most character sets required. You'll need the translated bits of text provided as unicode as well, to place within your document. Does that make sense? Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] blockquote cite=what the?
Daniel Bowling wrote: shouldn't it be in a way that any reader can see the attribution? Of course. Unfortunately, this is a user agent issue, and no mainstream browser (as far as I'm aware of) exposes this attribute to the user. It *can* be visually displayed via CSS (:before / :after and the content rule), but that's not really good enough. It's similar to the issue I have with the longdesc attribute, which again is not really presented to users in any reasonable way (and prompted me to write a quick and dirty extension for firefox http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/55/ ) One can only hope that browser manufacturers/developers will take this on board at some point... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb you are here links
Sean Naden wrote: er, maybe it's my 'listless' disposition but why would you put a breadcrumb in a list? The usual gt; seperators seem ideal ...except that it does not, intrinsically, have any structure or semantic meaning if it's just a line of text with an arbitrary character as separator. Using a list attempts to give some meaning and relationship to the various bits that make up the breadcrumb. However, it's true that one needs to be able to draw the line, and not get too carried away with using lists. Otherwise everything starts looking like a list (in the same way that when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail): a page of text could arguably be seen as an ordered list of paragraphs/lists/images, even individual words could be ordered lists of individual characters, etc. It's about walking a fine (sane) line, and in many cases realising that the semantic structures offered by (x)html are actually quite limited, and you won't always find the exact right set of elements that perfectly fit your real-world content...so it turns into a question of triage. Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] blockquote cite=what the?
Clayton Lengel-Zigich wrote: There is this format for presenting quotes As CITEHarry S. Truman/CITE said, Q lang=en-usThe buck stops here./Q The problem with that (and yes, I know it's an official W3C example) is that it does not unequivocally link the CITE with the Q (not in the same way that, for instance, LABEL is linked to an INPUT or other form control via the FOR attribute). So the relationship between those two elements is really implicit, and mostly down to proximity within the page and the general context... But again, one of those examples of how ambiguous and utterly flawed many aspects of the semantic structures in (x)html are... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Looking for party animals
Anything happening in the UK at all? Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] blockquote cite=what the?
Clayton Lengel-Zigich wrote: That is a good point, however is there an instance where the two would not appear to be linked when viewing the page? (e.g. a screen reader or something) Ok, aside from any automated harvesting tools or whatever, consider the scenario of a screenreader user who skips from paragraph to paragraph, and ends up on the second paragraph of this pciteHarry S. Truman/cite said, q lang=en-usThe buck stops here./q/p ... pHe then also said qsomething else entirely/q./p Now, assuming that the screenreader flags up that something else entirely is actually a quote, it still can't (programmatically) determine what source it's being cited from. The user will, if interested, start reading around the q element, but still not find out who the quote is from, and will have to - in the worst case - read the entire document top to bottom until stumbling across the cite. In this case, rather than the LABEL/FOR attribute idea, you'd probably want something more like the headers attribute in tables (or in general something more akin to classes that can be reused). Admittedly, you may not encounter this type of scenario often, and it's maybe an extreme case I'm talking about, but still...something that just nags at me ;) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb you are here links
Ryan Nichols wrote: I think this is where Xhtml has it's (eventual) power. Since it's extensible, you could use your own DTD, which has extra tags and markup which contains the semantic meaning you need. Then via CSS and javascript, you can alter/style the data anyway you need for the client. Maybe it's a bit too much of a principle idea, but...even if you can extend xhtml to include all sorts of your own vocabularies, this does not guarantee that the browser will actually *understand* them. They may present them, and maybe even make them available in the DOM as a separate node, but they may not know what they actually are. Yes, a very academic discussion, admittedly... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Combining in css
Lyn Patterson wrote:
have I left out commas or something?
Yes.
#[name of page] #container, #[name of page] #floatimgleft
{background-color: #dff;}
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] select as form label
Nick Lo wrote: So my question is really; is the label around a select element essentially pointless? Labels are a good thing, both from an accessibility and usability point of view. So no, not pointless at all. Read http://www.webaim.org/techniques/forms/2#labels for a soft introduction on this. ...if that was your question. Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] select as form label
Oops...should really make it a habit to actually read the questions properly before storming in with what I think is the answer *blush* P Nick Lo wrote: Hi Patrick, Thanks for your response, unfortunately that wasn't my question though I realise at a glance it's how my question read. It was specifically referring to this type of instance... p label class=blank for=input_phone_1 select name=input_phone_1_type id=input_phone_1_type option value=Please Select/option option value=work selected=selectedwork/option option value=homehome/option option value=faxfax/option option value=mobilemobile/option option value=otherother/option /select /label br / input type=text name=input_phone_1 id=input_phone_1 value= /p As I've just put at... http://www.trikeinteractive.com/form_example.html ...as an example. Note there is no actual text as would normally be within the label tags but instead another form element. Thanks, Nick Nick Lo wrote: So my question is really; is the label around a select element essentially pointless? Labels are a good thing, both from an accessibility and usability point of view. So no, not pointless at all. Read http://www.webaim.org/techniques/forms/2#labels for a soft introduction on this. ...if that was your question. Patrick H. Lauke ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] blockquote cite=what the?
Paul Connolley wrote: This is a perfectly natural English language grammar. Sorry, wasn't advocating changing the writing style, but having a mechanism in place to unequivocally tie a CITE course to Q or BLOCKQUOTE and have those pesky browsers actually expose that information to the user (with possibly user selectable preferences on how, and how often - once in a document for same source, for instance - to present it). So yes, my main gripe is with browsers. Here's hoping for some new developments on that front in the future ;) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] select as form label
Nick Lo wrote: Perhaps this is a case where it needs a nested label like... p label class=blank for=input_phone_1 label class=blank for=input_phone_1_typePhone type/label select name=input_phone_1_type id=input_phone_1_type option value=Please Select/option option value=workwork/option option value=homehome/option option value=faxfax/option option value=mobilemobile/option option value=otherother/option /select /label br / input type=text name=input_phone_1 id=input_phone_1 value= /p I think you may be wanting a FIELDSET here. And don't get hung up on wrapping the form element in its own label...I'd say it's perfectly ok NOT to do that, as long as FOR is properly tied to an ID. fieldset legendYour phone details/legend label class=blank for=input_phone_1_typePhone type/label select name=input_phone_1_type id=input_phone_1_type option value=Please Select/option option value=workwork/option option value=homehome/option option value=faxfax/option option value=mobilemobile/option option value=otherother/option /select br / label for=input_phone_1Phone number/label input type=text name=input_phone_1 id=input_phone_1 value= /fieldset Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic indentation
Joshua Street wrote:
What's the recommended practice with indentation?
Uh - is there any reason not to use pre?
Charles Eaton wrote:
I'll second that with the css code of white-space
Well, I wouldn't say the spaces are part of the content, but rather
they're a part of the presentation, based on the traditional way of
presenting poems of this nature on paper...so they'd belong purely in
the CSS and not in the markup (even if it's only a few space characters).
In the absence of a line element in xhtml (like the one proposed for
xhtml 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/mod-text.html#sec_9.7.),
something like this would probably be an acceptable solution
blockquote class=poem
p
spanJust the place for a Snark!â the Bellman cried,/span
spanAs he landed his crew with care;/span
spanSupporting each man on the top of the tide/span
spanBy a finger entwined in his hair./span
/p
p
... second stanza ...
/p
p
... third stanza ...
/p
etc
/blockquote
with a css of
blockquote.poem span { display: block; }
blockquote.poem span:first-child + span, blockquote.poem
span:first-child + span + span + span { text-indent: 2em; }
Of, if we wanted to go for CSS 3 (if it were supported anywhere), that
last line could be boiled down to
blockquote.poem span:nth-child(2n+2) { text-indext: 2em; }
or shorthanded to
blockquote.poem span:nth-child(even) { text-indext: 2em; }
Of course, neither the CSS 2 nor the CSS 3 method work in IE...so
classes on the spans it is, I think.
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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**
Re: [WSG] Circle menu
Jad Madi wrote: http://www.w3planet.info/circle-menu/menu.jpg sure without the circle border and little larger to fit the screen I dont want to use any image maping, or images, only markup any idea? Well, an approximation of what you want to do... http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/archives/circular_menu/ Basically, using the classic unordered list of links, making the containing UL a certain dimension, and setting position:relative to provide a point of reference for absolutely positioning the list items. The actual coordinates for the list items are calculated by hand with basic trigonometry, and additionally I changed them to percent values to make the whole thing a tad more flexible (this way, you can easily change the dimensions of this approximated circle by only changing the dimension of the containing UL). As for calculating the position itself, this is just basic trigonometry (sin and cos) Not perfect, as I haven't corrected for the actual size of the list items (effectively their top-left corner is roughly on the circle, not their middle point), but this should give you at least some basis for further experimentation... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section
Kevin Futter wrote:
a href=myWindow.html onclick=popWindow('myWindow.html'); return
false;Click here/a
Small modification: use popWindow(this.href) to refer back to the A
element's HREF attribute. This way, if you change the href at some
point, you won't have to remember to change the javascript as well, as
it will automatically pick it up...
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Stadards Site Section
Chris Kennon wrote: So the most standards compliant method would be loading each portfolio piece into a new window without JS. So if this is the case, why have so many sites resorted to the carnival that is often JS, with window upon window soaking up screen real estate? Simple answer: because most sites are not standards compliant... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Select form element doesnt validate
Michael Kear wrote: I figure if a validator is going to say that's wrong they ought to provide a link so you can find out what's right. Don't you think? There are no less than 2 links to the exact specification of the doctype your document purports to use (one at the top, in the form, just next to the dropdown where you can force a different doctype, and one in the big brown/red bar that tells you when something is not valid). Also, the actual error messages are quite verbose if you read them properly. For example, in the case of there is no attribute type errors, you have, among other things: How to fix: check the spelling and case of the element and attribute, (Remember XHTML is all lower-case) and/or check that they are both allowed in the chosen document type, and/or use CSS instead of this attribute. (and yes, in this case it was the lower-case issue that was to blame). Beyond that, it's a validating tool, not a teaching tool... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] How-to: Create a list with pictures / detail?
There's probably no *one* really correct way of doing this, but off the top of my head, two ideas would be: 1) make it an unordered list with addresses, and use CSS to leave enough padding on the left and stick the image in there as a background 2) use a definition list, with the image as DT and the address as DD Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] How-to: Create a list with pictures / detail?
Trovster wrote: I would do the following - http://trov.ath.cx/comm/~test/WSG/sportscenters.html My option nr 2) then ;-) Agree, the line breaks in this case can be argued as being part of the content (as we still don't have anything like the line element in xhtml2) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shared Div heights
Kimberly Lightholder wrote: Perhaps there is a way to combine 'faux columns' with some sort of 'sliding doors' trick to create 'faux columns' [...] Anyone attempt something like that before? Before I go wasting my time... ;) sliding faux columns by eric meyer/doug bowman http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/03/sliding-faux-columns/ Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] westciv templates competition results
Sam Hutchinson wrote: Don't mean to be ignorant, but the winners doesn't work correctly in Ie 6.0.2 - there's a step on the right above the links ! Some breakage in Firefox as well. But hey, overall, not bad and fairly trendy. Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] alt tag boundaries
Ted Drake wrote: Now, I know this is not the greatest description. It was sort of a dig at the requirement to use the silly image. I'm sure users that rely on alt attributes will be thrilled by your humour. Seriously though: nice to have a dig, but not at the expense of users. Granted, in this case it's not bad, but it's the principle that I object to... Anyway...if the image is purely decorative (which, by the sound of it, is the case), why not simply put a null alt attribute of alt= in there, or even better use CSS to place the image as a background? Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] links with same names
you can make use of the title attribute to make the links unique, while still visually having them appear short and similar. a href=whatever.html title=read article: [TITLE OF ARTICLE]read article/a best practice with regards to titles suggests that the link text should be repeated in the title itself. also be aware that in the case of screenreaders the output users will hear depends on the verbosity settings they have enabled. Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] links with same names
Andreas Boehmer wrote: So the ability to have the titles of links read out by screenreaders can be influenced by a setting? Relying on that setting is dangerous, don't you think? Of course it is. The best option by far, in my opinion, is having the news item title as the actual link, but you were looking for alternatives. It would also be conceivable to use a small image that signifies the read entire article concept, and expanding it fully in the alt attribute alt=read this article: [TITLE OF ARTICLE] - or using CSS image replacement for this purpose. If the users have the reading of title attributes turned off, they won't hear any difference between the links. In fact, no users of screenreaders I have met so far could hear the title attributes. Just to throw in a devil's advocate type comment: the onus is also on the user to know how to use their AT, and how to configure it properly (although I'd say the screenreader developers are to blame for mostly having this option OFF by default...I'm looking at you, FreedomScientifc) Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] links with same names
Edwart Visser wrote:
Just an idea... I don't know how screenreaders manage this but take a look
at this:
style
.readmoreTitle { display: none; }
/style
Unfortunately not a viable option, as some screenreaders then completely
miss out on it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=screenreaders+%22display%3Anone%22
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] CSS Shadows
Olajide Olaolorun wrote: How do you make an Image shadow using CSS like that on DeviantArt...? Can't be bothered to decypher dA's CSS, but I strongly suspect they'll be using one of the following techniques: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssdropshadows/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/cssdrop2/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/ Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Well since everybody...
russ - maxdesign wrote: And the url? http://mouseriders.dk/ ? Let's pray it's not http://localhost/mysite/test.html Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dupe Char Bug
Your markup is broken (probably as a result of a failed find/replace?). It validates, of course, but just look at this extract: a class=gallery slidea href=#spanimg src=images/thumbs/oils/sm_garden.jpg height=100 width=100 alt=Funnels title=Funnels /images/thumbs/sm_shed.jpg width=70 height=70/span/a Fix that, and your problem may be solved... Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dupe Char Bug
David Laakso wrote: Either of these changes eliminate the characters and bring back the gif (*at least on my machine*): 1) Enlarging the width of #sidethumb1 #sidethumb2 from 90px to 91px. 2) Changing a.gallery from display:inline to display :block. If the duplicate characters are still rendering on your end, I'd be grateful if you would let me know. http://www.dlaakso.com/ Sorry, but this is the point where I just shake my head and think whatever... You have rubbish in your markup. I'm glad you found ways of hiding it via one of the above methods, but...wouldn't it be better to just remove the rubbish? Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] li problems in Firefox and Opera
Erietta Sapounakis wrote:
#detail-tile li {list-style-type:circle; display:block;
list-style-position:inside;}
Remove display:block;
Any display other than display:list-item; kills the bullets, as far as
I'm aware...
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Proper extension and directory for server side includes
Larry Rappaport wrote:
I have been told that it is improper to use .inc as an extension for
server side includes. Ex: menu.inc.
What is the proper extension to use for server side includes and into
which directory should they be placed?
It all comes down to how your server is set up. In the majority of cases,
servers are not set up to do anything special when encountering files with
a .inc extension. Although this does not impede execution when included
(e.g. in PHP, include('blah.inc') will still work), there is a danger
that if anybody
finds out the location of the includes, they can just open them in their
browser
and see them as clean text (as, by default, the web server will send any
files
with an extension it doesn't know how to handle as text/plain). Now, if
you have
include files that also contain information like database connection
details with
usernames and passwords, this would mean that anybody who (accidentally
or not)
finds your includes, they can simply read this type of sensitive
information.
I've always advised my web authors to do one of two things:
a) either set up your server to also parse .inc files (e.g., if you're
using PHP, set
your server so it handles .inc files the same way it would .php ones); or
b) simply use the extension of your server-side language (again, in the
case of PHP,
simply use .php)
This way, in the worst case, somebody who tries to access an include
file on its
own will only see any output the include might generate. They won't see
the source
code, and won't see things like database connection details or any other
business
logic.
Now, on the subject of directories: an additional safeguard to prevent
people from
accessing includes in their browser on their own is to have a directory
for include
files which is completely outside of the normal web root, meaning that
it's not possible
to actually get to them from the web. Only your server-side language -
as it can
access your server's real file system - can get to them when generating
the page.
Hope this makes some kind of sense. If you *are* using PHP, have an
additional look
at http://www.php.net/manual/en/security.php
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] discussion at juicy studio: It's all in the MIME
Richard Czeiger wrote:
Thanks Patrick. I guess with people telling you to put inline scripts as
text/JavaScript and CSS as text/css I just assumed that the meta would
take care of it
A similar problem can be seen when CSS is erroneously sent as text/plain
or text/html by some badly configured servers (or in cases where people
use a server-side language to dynamically create CSS, and forget to set
headers accordingly). Firefox will not display/understand CSS files
unless they were sent as text/css
If, like most of my customers, theire sharing a server at some hosting
company, then it's unlikely that the host would do this to their servers...
Your host may allow you to set things via .htaccess files, or - if
you're using a server-side language like PHP - you can send custom
headers yourself. I use the method described roughly in the middle of
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/03/19/dive-into-xml.html
?php
if ( stristr($_SERVER[HTTP_ACCEPT],application/xhtml+xml) ) {
header(Content-type: application/xhtml+xml);
}
else {
header(Content-type: text/html);
}
?
Make sure this is sent before any other content (unless you're using
output buffering)
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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Re: [WSG] discussion at juicy studio: It's all in the MIME
Jason Foss wrote:
Is anyone aware of a good reference on configuring Apache to serve the
files as the correct MIME type? Something in English would be good - a
system administrator I'm not! Does it need to be set up in a per-site
basis (as they're all set up as Virtual Hosts.) I'm assuming this can
be done with .htaccess files?
Again, the article I mentioned
http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/03/19/dive-into-xml.html has a suggested
few lines of code for Apache (which can either be used in httpd.conf, or
an .htaccess file (which can be site wide, if it's in the site root, or
can be set on a per-directory basis depending on where you save it)
RewriteEngine on
RewriteBase /
RewriteCond %{HTTP_ACCEPT} application/xhtml\+xml
RewriteCond %{HTTP_ACCEPT} !application/xhtml\+xml\s*;\s*q=0
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} \.html$
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} HTTP/1\.1
RewriteRule .* - [T=application/xhtml+xml]
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Underscores and multiple class names (WAS: Re: [WSG] colgroup alignment issue)
Iain Harrison wrote: Friday, November 12, 2004, 7:23:40 PM, Ben wrote: Could be wrong here, or just showing my age, but I recall standards in 1999 saying that underscores were forbidden in class and id names. I think they were always legal in css as long as they weren't at the beginning of the name. However, I'm fairly sure that there is an issue with underscores in class names in the html From the Dec '96 CSS1 spec, under 7.1 Forward-compatible parsing: in CSS1, selectors (element names, classes and IDs) can contain only the characters A-Z, 0-9, and Unicode characters 161-255, plus dash (-); they cannot start with a dash or a digit; they can also contain escaped characters and any Unicode character as a numeric code There's no apparent change to this in the May '98 CSS2 spec. Then, in the Feb '04 CSS2.1 spec, under 4.1.3 Characters and case: In CSS 2.1, identifiers (including element names, classes, and IDs in selectors) can contain only the characters [A-Za-z0-9] and ISO 10646 characters U+00A1 and higher, plus the hyphen (-) and the underscore (_); they cannot start with a digit. Only properties, values, units, pseudo-classes, pseudo-elements, and at-rules may start with a hyphen (-); other identifiers (e.g. element names, classes, or IDs) may not. Identifiers can also contain escaped characters and any ISO 10646 character as a numeric code This change is listed under Appendix C Changes, point 3.3 The underscore is allowed in identifiers. Changed In CSS2, identifiers [...] can contain only the characters [A-Za-z0-9] and ISO 10646 characters 161 and higher, plus the hyphen (-) to: In CSS2, identifiers [...] contain only the characters [A-Za-z0-9] and ISO 10646 characters 161 and higher, plus the hyphen (-) and the underscore (_) Personally, I avoid them, because I'm not sure where the problem is - perhaps your question will flush out the answer that has eluded me for so long! Did some really small superficial test to see which older browsers support underscores in class names: - IE 4 no - IE 5, 5.5 yes - Netscape 4.77 yes (surprisingly) - Netscape 6 no - Netscape 7 yes (obviously this list is far from complete) While I was at it, also tested support for multiple class names (e.g. class=warning notice referring to .warning and .notice simultaneously): - IE 4 no - IE 5, 5.5 yes - Netscape 4.77 no - Netscape 6, 7 yes Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
