Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Richard L. Hamilton via X11-users]

The server in xquartz.org 2.7.11 is "xorg-server 1.18.4 plus other patches"

It's a repackaging of what also gets built for MacPorts, but on MacPorts, 
xorg-server is 1.20.6.

In other words, the xquartz.org package doesn't get updated nearly as often as 
MacPorts. It is of course easier to install, since you just need one package vs 
installing MacPorts base, and then the xorg-server port  (which will 
automatically install all its dependencies) - and maybe other MacPorts ports as 
well, if anything is missing then. Some details change, and there's an X11 app 
vs the Xquartz app; but aside from various directory and file name differences 
(since one could install both, although would usually just have the launch 
daemon and launch agent for one enabled), the principles are pretty much the 
same.

Yes, according to reports, the x.org server itself will eventually fade away. 
But there remain more active updates of it for macOS than what's on xquartz.org.

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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton North) via X11-users]

All,

A hack google translate is:

X.Org, the free implementation of the X11 windowing system will soon enter 
"maintenance mode". Driven by Red Hat, the Gnome desktop environment ditched 
X.Org in favor of Wayland, which is set to become the primary display server 
for GNU / Linux distributions. "Once we're done," says director of Red Hat 
Enterprise Linux (RHEL) Desktop, "we plan to put X.Org into maintenance mode 
soon enough."

This decision
will affect macOS, which supports X.Org through the XQuartz project. This 
framework contributed to the success of Mac OS X: by making the link between 
X11 and Quartz, it also made the link between the open source world and that of 
Apple, and established Mac OS X against such a powerful UNIX system. than 
familiar. Many scientific applications, the Gimp editor, or the Wine 
compatibility layer, used XQuartz to run on Mac.

>From Mac OS X Jaguar to Mac OS X Tiger, XQuartz used the free XFree86 
>implementation, before switching to X.Org in Mac OS X Leopard. From OS X 
>Mountain Lion, however, XQuartz is no longer integrated into the system, but 
>must now be downloaded separately. If it is still maintained, it is based on 
>old technologies that are expected to disappear more or less quickly, and does 
>not support Retina displays.

"X.Org is mainly maintained by [Red Hat]," says Christian Schaller, "It is 
unlikely that a major new version will be released once we are no longer paying 
attention. ". "We will keep an eye on it [...] at least until the end of RHEL 
8's life [Editor's note: in 2029]," added the director of RHEL Desktop, while 
inviting GNU / Linux developers to switch to Wayland.

What will it change on Mac? Probably not much. A few apps still request 
XQuartz, but Gimp and Wine have abandoned it for years. By abandoning X11 and 
XQuartz to better focus on its own technologies, Apple has made it easier to 
adapt. Unless there is a surprise, XQuartz should bow out at the same time as 
X.Org.



James Gunning
CSIRO
Clayton, Vic., Australia


From: X11-users  on 
behalf of Mick Mueck via X11-users 
Sent: Sunday, 5 January 2020 12:01 PM
To: fil...@ill.fr 
Cc: X11-users@lists.apple.com 
Subject: Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

G'Day Alain,

Is there an English version of that website? I've just assumed for years now 
that X11 is either effectively abandoned or on below-minimum life support. So 
sad...

Regards,

Mick


On 2020.0104, at 19:40, Filhol Alain via X11-users 
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will ever be an update 
for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)
Here the answer:

Alain



On 5 Jan 2020, at 00:30, Ward, Mark Daniel via X11-users 
mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

I use XQuartz 2.7.11 daily too, now with Catalina... but I worry that it
hasn't been updated since 2016.

Since there has been a flurry of emails on this email list in the last
few days, I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will
ever be an update for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)

Warmest regards,

Mark Daniel Ward, Ph.D.

Director of The Data Mine
Purdue University
1301 Third Street
West Lafayette, IN 47906-4206
datam...@purdue.edu
phone: (765) 496-9563

Professor of Statistics and
(by courtesy) of Mathematics
Purdue University
150 North University Street
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2067
m...@purdue.edu
phone: (765) 496-9563


On 1/4/20 4:51 PM, Tom Lane via X11-users wrote:
JF Mezei via X11-users  writes:
I am running the "Apple suppoted" older version on High Sierrs
XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)
Yeah, that one still works pretty well for me on Catalina.
I am using a slightly modified X11 server with it too, to fix
the focus problems that were such a hassle a few years ago.
Beyond having to reinstall that stuff after any OS upgrade,
it hasn't broken yet.

Apart from a few hiccups here and there, it works.  For instance, after
I turn the TV on or off and the Mac insists on flashing the screens
multiple times, the Xterm windows always end up on top.
Yeah, I do notice the X11 windows forcing themselves to front in
certain circumstances, but it's not been a huge problem for me.

Lots of things don't really work well
1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then start 
quartz-wm from the
xterm it fires up.
Hm, nope, clicking the XQuartz dock icon works fine for me.

regards, tom lane
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Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
Institut Laue-Langevin

Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Mick Mueck via X11-users]

G'Day Alain,

Is there an English version of that website? I've just assumed for years now 
that X11 is either effectively abandoned or on below-minimum life support. So 
sad...

Regards,

Mick


> On 2020.0104, at 19:40, Filhol Alain via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will ever be an 
>> update for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)
> Here the answer:
>   
> >
> Alain
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5 Jan 2020, at 00:30, Ward, Mark Daniel via X11-users 
>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I use XQuartz 2.7.11 daily too, now with Catalina... but I worry that it 
>> hasn't been updated since 2016.
>> 
>> Since there has been a flurry of emails on this email list in the last 
>> few days, I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will 
>> ever be an update for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)
>> 
>> Warmest regards,
>> 
>> Mark Daniel Ward, Ph.D.
>> 
>> Director of The Data Mine
>> Purdue University
>> 1301 Third Street
>> West Lafayette, IN 47906-4206
>> datam...@purdue.edu 
>> phone: (765) 496-9563
>> 
>> Professor of Statistics and
>> (by courtesy) of Mathematics
>> Purdue University
>> 150 North University Street
>> West Lafayette, IN 47907-2067
>> m...@purdue.edu
>> phone: (765) 496-9563
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/4/20 4:51 PM, Tom Lane via X11-users wrote:
>>> JF Mezei via X11-users  writes:
 I am running the "Apple suppoted" older version on High Sierrs
 XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)
>>> Yeah, that one still works pretty well for me on Catalina.
>>> I am using a slightly modified X11 server with it too, to fix
>>> the focus problems that were such a hassle a few years ago.
>>> Beyond having to reinstall that stuff after any OS upgrade,
>>> it hasn't broken yet.
>>> 
 Apart from a few hiccups here and there, it works.  For instance, after
 I turn the TV on or off and the Mac insists on flashing the screens
 multiple times, the Xterm windows always end up on top.
>>> Yeah, I do notice the X11 windows forcing themselves to front in
>>> certain circumstances, but it's not been a huge problem for me.
>>> 
> Lots of things don't really work well
> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
> start quartz-wm from the
> xterm it fires up.
>>> Hm, nope, clicking the XQuartz dock icon works fine for me.
>>> 
>>> regards, tom lane
>>>  ___
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: 
>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/x11-users/mdw%40purdue.edu
>>> 
>>> This email sent to m...@purdue.edu
> 
> 
> —
> Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
> Institut Laue-Langevin
> EPN Campus, CS 20156, 71 ave des Martyrs, F-38042 Grenoble cedex 9
> mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>, Office: ILL19-206
> Tel:+33 4.76.20.71.56, Fax: +33 4.76.20.76.48
> 
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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Filhol Alain via X11-users]

> I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will ever be an update 
> for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)
Here the answer:
>
Alain



> On 5 Jan 2020, at 00:30, Ward, Mark Daniel via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I use XQuartz 2.7.11 daily too, now with Catalina... but I worry that it 
> hasn't been updated since 2016.
> 
> Since there has been a flurry of emails on this email list in the last 
> few days, I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will 
> ever be an update for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)
> 
> Warmest regards,
> 
> Mark Daniel Ward, Ph.D.
> 
> Director of The Data Mine
> Purdue University
> 1301 Third Street
> West Lafayette, IN 47906-4206
> datam...@purdue.edu
> phone: (765) 496-9563
> 
> Professor of Statistics and
> (by courtesy) of Mathematics
> Purdue University
> 150 North University Street
> West Lafayette, IN 47907-2067
> m...@purdue.edu
> phone: (765) 496-9563
> 
> 
> On 1/4/20 4:51 PM, Tom Lane via X11-users wrote:
>> JF Mezei via X11-users  writes:
>>> I am running the "Apple suppoted" older version on High Sierrs
>>> XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)
>> Yeah, that one still works pretty well for me on Catalina.
>> I am using a slightly modified X11 server with it too, to fix
>> the focus problems that were such a hassle a few years ago.
>> Beyond having to reinstall that stuff after any OS upgrade,
>> it hasn't broken yet.
>> 
>>> Apart from a few hiccups here and there, it works.  For instance, after
>>> I turn the TV on or off and the Mac insists on flashing the screens
>>> multiple times, the Xterm windows always end up on top.
>> Yeah, I do notice the X11 windows forcing themselves to front in
>> certain circumstances, but it's not been a huge problem for me.
>> 
 Lots of things don't really work well
 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
 start quartz-wm from the
 xterm it fires up.
>> Hm, nope, clicking the XQuartz dock icon works fine for me.
>> 
>>  regards, tom lane
>>  ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> X11-users mailing list  (X11-users@lists.apple.com)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: 
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/x11-users/mdw%40purdue.edu
>> 
>> This email sent to m...@purdue.edu


—
Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
Institut Laue-Langevin
EPN Campus, CS 20156, 71 ave des Martyrs, F-38042 Grenoble cedex 9
, Office: ILL19-206
Tel:+33 4.76.20.71.56, Fax: +33 4.76.20.76.48

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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Ward, Mark Daniel via X11-users]

I use XQuartz 2.7.11 daily too, now with Catalina... but I worry that it 
hasn't been updated since 2016.

Since there has been a flurry of emails on this email list in the last 
few days, I thought it might be a good time to ask whether there will 
ever be an update for XQuartz?  (I really hope so!)

Warmest regards,

Mark Daniel Ward, Ph.D.

Director of The Data Mine
Purdue University
1301 Third Street
West Lafayette, IN 47906-4206
datam...@purdue.edu
phone: (765) 496-9563

Professor of Statistics and
(by courtesy) of Mathematics
Purdue University
150 North University Street
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2067
m...@purdue.edu
phone: (765) 496-9563


On 1/4/20 4:51 PM, Tom Lane via X11-users wrote:
> JF Mezei via X11-users  writes:
>> I am running the "Apple suppoted" older version on High Sierrs
>> XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)
> Yeah, that one still works pretty well for me on Catalina.
> I am using a slightly modified X11 server with it too, to fix
> the focus problems that were such a hassle a few years ago.
> Beyond having to reinstall that stuff after any OS upgrade,
> it hasn't broken yet.
>
>> Apart from a few hiccups here and there, it works.  For instance, after
>> I turn the TV on or off and the Mac insists on flashing the screens
>> multiple times, the Xterm windows always end up on top.
> Yeah, I do notice the X11 windows forcing themselves to front in
> certain circumstances, but it's not been a huge problem for me.
>
>>> Lots of things don't really work well
>>> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
>>> start quartz-wm from the
>>> xterm it fires up.
> Hm, nope, clicking the XQuartz dock icon works fine for me.
>
>   regards, tom lane
>   ___
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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Tom Lane via X11-users]

JF Mezei via X11-users  writes:
> I am running the "Apple suppoted" older version on High Sierrs
> XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)

Yeah, that one still works pretty well for me on Catalina.
I am using a slightly modified X11 server with it too, to fix
the focus problems that were such a hassle a few years ago.
Beyond having to reinstall that stuff after any OS upgrade,
it hasn't broken yet.

> Apart from a few hiccups here and there, it works.  For instance, after
> I turn the TV on or off and the Mac insists on flashing the screens
> multiple times, the Xterm windows always end up on top.

Yeah, I do notice the X11 windows forcing themselves to front in
certain circumstances, but it's not been a huge problem for me.

>> Lots of things don't really work well
>> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
>> start quartz-wm from the
>> xterm it fires up.

Hm, nope, clicking the XQuartz dock icon works fine for me.

regards, tom lane
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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[JF Mezei via X11-users]

On 2020-01-04 03:34, Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton North) via
X11-users wrote:
> Hi All,
>  I'm running Xquartz from the Macports build on High Sierra.

I am running the "Apple suppoted" older version on High Sierrs
XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)

Apart from a few hiccups here and there, it works.  For instance, after
I turn the TV on or off and the Mac insists on flashing the screens
multiple times, the Xterm windows always end up on top.


Starting X11 after a crash (window server freezes often on a Mac Pro
2013, I force the crash by disconnecting TV from HDMI port), it can take
a while after clicking on the XQuartz icon before the first terminal
window appears.


> Lots of things don't really work well
> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then start 
> quartz-wm from the
> xterm it fires up.

Sometimes your login does stuff that worked in previous version but not
in current one. Experienced that during one upgrade years ago when my
.xinitrc did stuff thyat should no longer be done (like calling the
xinitrc binary to start the window manager).

Rename all your . files that are related to x in yoru login and see if
it starts normally, then rename each back one at a time to see which one
can cause the startup to fail.
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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[René J . V . Bertin via X11-users]

On Saturday January 04 2020 03:21:20 Ken Preslan wrote:

>There was a speed regression from 1.18 to 1.20.  It's still not nearly
>as fast as XQuartz was before Yosemite, though.

Thanks for giving me another reason not to upgrade beyond 10.9! I too do lots 
of things under X11 because it typically isn't slower and usually reduces 
memory overhead for some reason.

>At times, I wonder how hard it would be to change MacPorts' "vnc" port to
>start compiling the VNC/X11 server.  (Right now it only compiles the

You'd lose the rootless mode where X11 windows are mixed with native windows, 
as well as multihead support, right?

There may be another approach. A few years back I asked Jeremy H. what he 
thought of an interest for having Wayland on Mac. If I understood his answer 
correctly it could also be an answer to the current X11 problems because it 
should allow to run a standard X11-on-Wayland layer. I don't have enough 
experience with Wayland to know how well those layers work, but I'd assume them 
to be rather crucial for the new platform to get acceptance.

R.
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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Cheng-Yang Tan via X11-users]

 FYI, at least for me, a clean install of X11 doesn't work/start properly. I 
had to install Xquartz first and then install X11. Once that is done, only X11 
needs to be run.
Unfortunately, on Catalina, local xterms just doesn't work properly and I have 
an activation/focus problem with X11 on Catalina as well (see my previous pos). 
On the bright side, I've not had problems with remotely opened X programs from 
Linux boxes.
YMMV
cytan
On Saturday, January 4, 2020, 01:02:29 PM CST, Ken Preslan via X11-users 
 wrote:  
 
 Yes, it's a version of X11 from x.org.

You install Macports then you do a "port install xorg-server".  That puts
an X11.app into /Applications/MacPorts.  You can double click it or drag
it to your dock and click it there.  It's just like the one installed by
XQuartz.

You want to make sure /opt/local/bin and /opt/local/sbin are in your path,
as that's where the the X11 apps (xterm, xclock, etc) are stored.


On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 07:28:04PM +0100, Filhol Alain via X11-users wrote:
> When you speak of a MacPort version of X11, is it this one 
> > ?
> I am new at MacPorts and I am not sure I understand how to use it. 
>     port info xorg-apps
> If I install this port, does it gives a X11.app similar to Quartz.app ? Shall 
> I activate it through a Terminal command ?
> "Description: This package builds all of the x.org  app 
> packages.” but this does not say where they are installed and how to use them.
> 
> I think that Apple should support XQuartz and developers should complain 
> about it.
> 
> Happy new year
> Alain
> 
> 
> > On 4 Jan 2020, at 10:21, Ken Preslan via X11-users 
> > mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Try the xorg-server-1.18 MacPort instead of the default xorg-server port.
> > There was a speed regression from 1.18 to 1.20.  It's still not nearly
> > as fast as XQuartz was before Yosemite, though.
> > 
> > At times, I wonder how hard it would be to change MacPorts' "vnc" port to
> > start compiling the VNC/X11 server.  (Right now it only compiles the
> > client.)  If that could be made to work, you could use a native MacOS
> > VNC client to connect to it.  You'd have something that would run X11
> > apps on the Mac which would be lighter weight than a VM and much faster
> > than XQuartz.  You'd think that the work involved would be much smaller
> > than the "XtoQ in libxcwm" fix to XQuartz.
> > 
> > I've never gotten around to trying it though.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 08:34:32AM +, Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton 
> > North) via X11-users wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>    I'm running Xquartz from the Macports build on High Sierra.
> >> Lots of things don't really work well
> >> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
> >> start quartz-wm from the
> >> xterm it fires up. The  Applications/Macports/X11.app just bounced 
> >> endlessly.
> >> 2) Even when up, the drawing/rendering speed makes all X11 apps unusably 
> >> slow.
> >> See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/188 
> >> 
> >> Since X11 is my workhorse, this makes the whole OSX+X11 platform 
> >> experience rather
> >> unworkable for me. I've taken to running linux via a VM on OSX - at least 
> >> the X11 works well, but it's a heavyweight solution.
> >> It seems to me that without a fix this disqualifies OSX as a platform for 
> >> people who depend on the huge legacy set of X11 codes.
> >> 
> >> Are other people as plagued by these issues as well. Is there any hope of 
> >> remediation for Xquartz
> >> or substitute/workaround people know of?
> >> 
> >> Best wishes
> >>        James.
> >> 
> 
> 
> —
> Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
> Institut Laue-Langevin
> EPN Campus, CS 20156, 71 ave des Martyrs, F-38042 Grenoble cedex 9
> mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>, Office: ILL19-206
> Tel:+33 4.76.20.71.56, Fax: +33 4.76.20.76.48
> 

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-- 
Ken Preslan 

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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Ken Preslan via X11-users]

Yes, it's a version of X11 from x.org.

You install Macports then you do a "port install xorg-server".  That puts
an X11.app into /Applications/MacPorts.  You can double click it or drag
it to your dock and click it there.  It's just like the one installed by
XQuartz.

You want to make sure /opt/local/bin and /opt/local/sbin are in your path,
as that's where the the X11 apps (xterm, xclock, etc) are stored.


On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 07:28:04PM +0100, Filhol Alain via X11-users wrote:
> When you speak of a MacPort version of X11, is it this one 
> > ?
> I am new at MacPorts and I am not sure I understand how to use it. 
>   port info xorg-apps
> If I install this port, does it gives a X11.app similar to Quartz.app ? Shall 
> I activate it through a Terminal command ?
> "Description: This package builds all of the x.org  app 
> packages.” but this does not say where they are installed and how to use them.
> 
> I think that Apple should support XQuartz and developers should complain 
> about it.
> 
> Happy new year
> Alain
> 
> 
> > On 4 Jan 2020, at 10:21, Ken Preslan via X11-users 
> > mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Try the xorg-server-1.18 MacPort instead of the default xorg-server port.
> > There was a speed regression from 1.18 to 1.20.  It's still not nearly
> > as fast as XQuartz was before Yosemite, though.
> > 
> > At times, I wonder how hard it would be to change MacPorts' "vnc" port to
> > start compiling the VNC/X11 server.  (Right now it only compiles the
> > client.)  If that could be made to work, you could use a native MacOS
> > VNC client to connect to it.  You'd have something that would run X11
> > apps on the Mac which would be lighter weight than a VM and much faster
> > than XQuartz.  You'd think that the work involved would be much smaller
> > than the "XtoQ in libxcwm" fix to XQuartz.
> > 
> > I've never gotten around to trying it though.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 08:34:32AM +, Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton 
> > North) via X11-users wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >> I'm running Xquartz from the Macports build on High Sierra.
> >> Lots of things don't really work well
> >> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
> >> start quartz-wm from the
> >> xterm it fires up. The  Applications/Macports/X11.app just bounced 
> >> endlessly.
> >> 2) Even when up, the drawing/rendering speed makes all X11 apps unusably 
> >> slow.
> >> See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/188 
> >> 
> >> Since X11 is my workhorse, this makes the whole OSX+X11 platform 
> >> experience rather
> >> unworkable for me. I've taken to running linux via a VM on OSX - at least 
> >> the X11 works well, but it's a heavyweight solution.
> >> It seems to me that without a fix this disqualifies OSX as a platform for 
> >> people who depend on the huge legacy set of X11 codes.
> >> 
> >> Are other people as plagued by these issues as well. Is there any hope of 
> >> remediation for Xquartz
> >> or substitute/workaround people know of?
> >> 
> >> Best wishes
> >> James.
> >> 
> 
> 
> —
> Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
> Institut Laue-Langevin
> EPN Campus, CS 20156, 71 ave des Martyrs, F-38042 Grenoble cedex 9
> mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>, Office: ILL19-206
> Tel:+33 4.76.20.71.56, Fax: +33 4.76.20.76.48
> 

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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Filhol Alain via X11-users]

>> 2) Even when up, the drawing/rendering speed makes all X11 apps unusably 
>> slow.
XQuartz from www.quartz.org  was already extremely slow 
as compared to X11 on Linux or Windows.
On 02 Feb 2017 Jeremy Huddleston Sequoia wrote:  
> By oct 21 2016 I asked on  > a question about slow dialogues with 
> OpenMotif and XQuartz (much slower than with Linux). Is this a known bug ? 
> Shall I post again ?
>> There is a known issue there, I believe with Yosemite and newer versions of 
>> macOS (maybe Mavericks+, maybe ElCap+, I forget exactly).  The issue is 
>> below us in CoreGraphics and won't really be fixed on Apple's side as doing 
>> so would fix this case but cause bad performance penalties for every single 
>> other case out there.  The real solution is to get XQuartz off of libXplugin 
>> and start using more modern macOS APIs (eg: finishing up libxcwm), but 
>> there's not really anyone actively working on that right now.
> If you're interested in working on the replacement, I can point you in the 
> right direction.  It's maybe 60% done ... all by a group of college seniors 
> at PSU.


When you speak of a MacPort version of X11, is it this one 
> ?
I am new at MacPorts and I am not sure I understand how to use it. 
port info xorg-apps
If I install this port, does it gives a X11.app similar to Quartz.app ? Shall I 
activate it through a Terminal command ?
"Description: This package builds all of the x.org  app 
packages.” but this does not say where they are installed and how to use them.

I think that Apple should support XQuartz and developers should complain about 
it.

Happy new year
Alain


> On 4 Jan 2020, at 10:21, Ken Preslan via X11-users  > wrote:
> 
> Try the xorg-server-1.18 MacPort instead of the default xorg-server port.
> There was a speed regression from 1.18 to 1.20.  It's still not nearly
> as fast as XQuartz was before Yosemite, though.
> 
> At times, I wonder how hard it would be to change MacPorts' "vnc" port to
> start compiling the VNC/X11 server.  (Right now it only compiles the
> client.)  If that could be made to work, you could use a native MacOS
> VNC client to connect to it.  You'd have something that would run X11
> apps on the Mac which would be lighter weight than a VM and much faster
> than XQuartz.  You'd think that the work involved would be much smaller
> than the "XtoQ in libxcwm" fix to XQuartz.
> 
> I've never gotten around to trying it though.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 08:34:32AM +, Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton 
> North) via X11-users wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I'm running Xquartz from the Macports build on High Sierra.
>> Lots of things don't really work well
>> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then 
>> start quartz-wm from the
>> xterm it fires up. The  Applications/Macports/X11.app just bounced endlessly.
>> 2) Even when up, the drawing/rendering speed makes all X11 apps unusably 
>> slow.
>> See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/188 
>> 
>> Since X11 is my workhorse, this makes the whole OSX+X11 platform experience 
>> rather
>> unworkable for me. I've taken to running linux via a VM on OSX - at least 
>> the X11 works well, but it's a heavyweight solution.
>> It seems to me that without a fix this disqualifies OSX as a platform for 
>> people who depend on the huge legacy set of X11 codes.
>> 
>> Are other people as plagued by these issues as well. Is there any hope of 
>> remediation for Xquartz
>> or substitute/workaround people know of?
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> James.
>> 


—
Dr. Alain Filhol  (Computer scientist)
Institut Laue-Langevin
EPN Campus, CS 20156, 71 ave des Martyrs, F-38042 Grenoble cedex 9
mailto:fil...@ill.eu>>, Office: ILL19-206
Tel:+33 4.76.20.71.56, Fax: +33 4.76.20.76.48

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Re: Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Ken Preslan via X11-users]

Try the xorg-server-1.18 MacPort instead of the default xorg-server port.
There was a speed regression from 1.18 to 1.20.  It's still not nearly
as fast as XQuartz was before Yosemite, though.

At times, I wonder how hard it would be to change MacPorts' "vnc" port to
start compiling the VNC/X11 server.  (Right now it only compiles the
client.)  If that could be made to work, you could use a native MacOS
VNC client to connect to it.  You'd have something that would run X11
apps on the Mac which would be lighter weight than a VM and much faster
than XQuartz.  You'd think that the work involved would be much smaller
than the "XtoQ in libxcwm" fix to XQuartz.

I've never gotten around to trying it though.


On Sat, Jan 04, 2020 at 08:34:32AM +, Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton 
North) via X11-users wrote:
> Hi All,
>  I'm running Xquartz from the Macports build on High Sierra.
> Lots of things don't really work well
> 1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then start 
> quartz-wm from the
> xterm it fires up. The  Applications/Macports/X11.app just bounced endlessly.
> 2) Even when up, the drawing/rendering speed makes all X11 apps unusably slow.
> See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/188
> Since X11 is my workhorse, this makes the whole OSX+X11 platform experience 
> rather
> unworkable for me. I've taken to running linux via a VM on OSX - at least the 
> X11 works well, but it's a heavyweight solution.
> It seems to me that without a fix this disqualifies OSX as a platform for 
> people who depend on the huge legacy set of X11 codes.
> 
> Are other people as plagued by these issues as well. Is there any hope of 
> remediation for Xquartz
> or substitute/workaround people know of?
> 
> Best wishes
>  James.
> 
> 

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Xquartz (non-) usability. Drawing speed. Startup etc

[Gunning, James (Energy, Clayton North) via X11-users]

Hi All,
 I'm running Xquartz from the Macports build on High Sierra.
Lots of things don't really work well
1)  I have to run /opt/local/bin/Xquartz manually from a terminal, then start 
quartz-wm from the
xterm it fires up. The  Applications/Macports/X11.app just bounced endlessly.
2) Even when up, the drawing/rendering speed makes all X11 apps unusably slow.
See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/188
Since X11 is my workhorse, this makes the whole OSX+X11 platform experience 
rather
unworkable for me. I've taken to running linux via a VM on OSX - at least the 
X11 works well, but it's a heavyweight solution.
It seems to me that without a fix this disqualifies OSX as a platform for 
people who depend on the huge legacy set of X11 codes.

Are other people as plagued by these issues as well. Is there any hope of 
remediation for Xquartz
or substitute/workaround people know of?

Best wishes
 James.


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