Re: [zfs-discuss] S11 vs illumos zfs compatiblity
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote: http://sparcv9.blogspot.com/2011/12/solaris-11-illumos-and-source.html If I upgrade ZFS to use the new features in Solaris 11 I will be unable to import my pool using the free ZFS implementation that is available in illumos based distributions Is that accurate? I understand if the S11 version is ahead of illumos, of course I can't use the same pools in both places, but that is the same problem as using an S11 pool on S10. The author is implying a much worse situation, that there are zfs tracks in addition to versions and that S11 is now on a different track and an S11 pool will not be usable elsewhere, ever. I hope it's just a misrepresentation. Hard to say. Suppose Oracle releases no details on any additions to the on-disk ZFS format since build 147... then either the rest of the ZFS developer community forks for good, or they have to reverse engineer Oracle's additions. Even if Oracle does release details on their additions, what if the external ZFS developer community disagrees vehemently with any of those? And what if the open source community adds extensions that Oracle never adopts? A fork is not yet a reality, but IMO it sure looks likely. Of course, you can still manage to have pools that will work on all implementations -- until the day that implementations start removing older formats anyways, which not only could happen, but I think will happen, though probably not until S10 is EOLed, and in any case probably not for a few years yet, likely not even within the next half decade. It's hard to predict such things though, so take the above with some (or lots!) of salt. Nico -- ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] S11 vs illumos zfs compatiblity
On 12/27/11 09:20 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: http://sparcv9.blogspot.com/2011/12/solaris-11-illumos-and-source.html If I upgrade ZFS to use the new features in Solaris 11 I will be unable to import my pool using the free ZFS implementation that is available in illumos based distributions Is that accurate? I understand if the S11 version is ahead of illumos, of course I can't use the same pools in both places, but that is the same problem as using an S11 pool on S10. The author is implying a much worse situation, that there are zfs tracks in addition to versions and that S11 is now on a different track and an S11 pool will not be usable elsewhere, ever. I hope it's just a misrepresentation. I used to have rpool from 2009.06 Opensolaris , updated over snv_134 to both Openindiana with Illumos and to the Solaris11 express in separate Boot environment, but at the same ZFS rpool. Since then, Oracle removed both pkg.opensolaris.org/release and /dev and also seems that there is no Solaris11 express IPS publisher to be found anymore. So, one could use pkg.openindiana.org/legacy to update to snv_134 (Not the Oracle's snv_134b needed to S11Express upgrade) and to upgrade to Openindiana latest /dev as described on openindiana.org Wiki. But for Updating to snv_134b fro Oracle and Solaris11 Express, prior to updating to Solaris11 on the same rpool, one would need to download and activate local IPS repository of both of them and install from there, since Oracle pulled the plug from both, most probably to actually stop just that thing: Ability to have Openindiana and Solaris11 on the same rpool, upgraded from snv_134 , because S11 ZFS is closed source and newer version number, and therefore not usable for any implementation but Oracle's (including Illumos, Zfs-fuse, ZfsonLinux and FreeBSD implementations) Recent S11 source code leak might help as a blueprint for implementing maybe compatible implementations in other OS'es but Oracle, but it needs to be re-written, and not copied due to Oracle's copyright. So it is possible to have S11 and Openindiana/Illumos on same rpool. Just jou need both snv_134b Opensolaris and S11Express IPS publisher to update from. You can put them up from repository archives and if you do, share a cookbook for it, OK? ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] S11 vs illumos zfs compatiblity
On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: http://sparcv9.blogspot.com/2011/12/solaris-11-illumos-and-source.html If I upgrade ZFS to use the new features in Solaris 11 I will be unable to import my pool using the free ZFS implementation that is available in illumos based distributions Is that accurate? I understand if the S11 version is ahead of illumos, of course I can't use the same pools in both places, but that is the same problem as using an S11 pool on S10. The author is implying a much worse situation, that there are zfs tracks in addition to versions and that S11 is now on a different track and an S11 pool will not be usable elsewhere, ever. I hope it's just a misrepresentation. I think the author has a valid point ;) I probably should have written zpools instead of ZFS in that sentence. It is same as always with different pool version and features, but in this case we don't now if they will be implemented and implemented in the same way outside of Oracle after zpool version 28 since we do not have the source and Oracle does't want to play with us. Regards Henrik http://sparcv9.blogspot.com___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] S11 vs illumos zfs compatiblity
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote: So with a de facto fork (illumos) now in place, is it possible that two zpools will report the same version yet be incompatible across implementations? Not likely: the Illumos community has developed a method for managing ZFS extensions in a way other than linear chronology. Nico -- ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] S11 vs illumos zfs compatiblity
On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Tim Cook wrote: On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote: So with a de facto fork (illumos) now in place, is it possible that two zpools will report the same version yet be incompatible across implementations? This was already broken by Sun/Oracle when the deduplication feature was not backported to Solaris 10. If you are running Solaris 10, then zpool version 29 features are not implemented. Not likely: the Illumos community has developed a method for managing ZFS extensions in a way other than linear chronology. This goes beyond the illumos community. I'm not sure that answer is helpful. If they aren't revving the ID when features are added, how exactly is someone supposed to know the feature status of their release? I know they were trying to compartmentalize features, but feature number is the quickest and easiest way to differentiate functionality. If you have to filter through a list of potentially hundreds of features to determine compatibility, that's going to be a nightmare long-term (which is why most products use a version number in the first place). This was discussed on the list last May. http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2011-May/048514.html On Dec 27, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Rich Teer wrote: On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Frank Cusack wrote: So with a de facto fork (illumos) now in place, is it possible that two zpools will report the same version yet be incompatible across implementations? As shown above, this is already the case between Solaris 10 and 11. I hope not. :-( I agree, it is unfortunate. ISTR some super-secret, behind-closed-doors ZFS steering commitee being established to try to avoid such a nightmare scenario… I wouldn't refer to the Oracle ZFS team in that way! There are lots of good folks striving to do the right thing there. Oh, perhaps you are referring to the ZFS working group? If so, there are no super- secrets there. As the above URL states, The community of developers working on ZFS continues to grow, as does the diversity of companies betting big on ZFS. We wanted a forum for these developers to coordinate their efforts and exchange ideas. The ZFS working group was formed to coordinate these development efforts. The working group encourages new membership. In order to maintain the group's focus on ZFS development, candidates should demonstrate significant and ongoing contribution to ZFS. Note that the ZFS working group members represent several OSes beyond the SunOS-derived OSes. If you are interested in porting ZFS to a new OS, then the ZFS working group is interested in providing support. For the truly open source illumos project, many of the former Sun ZFS team regularly contribute to ZFS through the illumos developer community. illumos-developer lists and archives are available at https://www.illumos.org/projects/site/wiki/Mailing_Lists -- richard -- ZFS and performance consulting http://www.RichardElling.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
