Re: [ZION] Goodbye
Stacy, I am not interested in joining a list that only discusses one topic, although it might be interesting. I am really interested in a group of committed LDS that can discuss and suggest and gently critique the thoughts of others. There are a lot of questions that I feel need to be discussed - more as a way of checking my own understanding as well as sharing my insights with others. Most lists that say they want to do this allow Anti-Mormons to get on and dominate with their horrible comments. Or allow one person with an extreme, or even a not so extreme but unyielding view, to dominate. Too often one person will not be willing to discuss anything of real meaning because He/She already has the answer. I would like to find a list that does not have that problem. B H Roberts said: In essentials, let us have unity. In non-essentials, let us have liberty. In all things, let us have charity. (If not an exact quote it is close.) That would be a nice standard for any list. George - Original Message - From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye George, I guess I'm still here. I thought I had unsubscribed, but maybe I got sidetracked. There's been so much going on in my life I don't always check to see what lists I'm on anymore. What kinds of things do you wish to discuss? Eternal progression? Exaltation? What will happen to each one of us? I'm not sure I know the answer to the last question as my entire life hasn't come up for review yet. I know I'll have some regrets about the way I've handled my last working situation and I'm afraid I'm going to be in hot water over that one, since I can't right every wrong I committed in that situation. That's my one big regret and I honestly worry I'm going to lose out on that one. Stacy. At 07:29 PM 06/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: I had great hopes of finding a list where I could discuss gospel topics with true believers and not have the anti -Mormon baiters always jumping in with their obnoxious comments. It would be nice if the fellow participants would be willing to discuss without being judgmental if we happen to disagree a bit. I am still looking and would be interested if one of those 10 might fit the criteria. Otherwise I will likely just give up and go back to my study and figure it all out by myself. George - Original Message - From: Bill Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye When you consider why people leave certain lists, I find you must consider the other lists (if any) a person may review. Although, I consider myself a lurker, I'm a member of about 10 other mormon related lists, and I like this one the best. When you consider what is being said on some of the yahoo groups, like thinker, polygomy, libertarian, etc; this is the most tame one that I have come across. Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven asked: Why leave the list because of the few? I completely understand Gary's reasons for leaving. Once upon a time, this list was place where we met together with friends and discussed the gospel and all kinds of other things. It was a great source pleasure and an opportunity to meet many new friends too. Now, however, the list has changed to be more of a debating society. It is a place where people come to debate and contend with each other about gospel related (usually) subjects. Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. The list, as a whole, brings me no more of the joy it once did. I just loath losing touch with my friends. Oh, one more point. I used to read each and every post to the list. Even when there were were hundreds a day! When you start skipping threads and such, however, you start to lose interest in most of the day to day chatter that makes up the list. THat is the biggest problem with those who say if you don't like this discussion, just delete it! Once you start that, the list becomes just a list of email messages, not a community to you. That is what has happened to me, and why, one day, I will likely leave too. Scott -- I'd rather be riding! - Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ /// / // /// ZION LIST
RE: [ZION] Goodbye
I wish I knew who it was that said, In essentials let there be unity: in non-essentials, liberty; and in all things, charity. But if I ever knew who said it I cannot now remember who it was, and I don't know that it matters, because the beauty and truth of the utterance is self-evident. It is one of those things which the world has accepted into its literature as being true and sensible, and it matters little who said it since it does not require other authority than the thing itself to commend it to men. (B.H. Roberts, Conference Report, October 1912) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
At 10:16 AM 6/14/2003, Scott wrote: Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. What? I was not included in your list of good friends grin? My suggestion--start such a list of friends. Perhaps you can name it the ZION-FRIENDS list. I would certainly enjoy such a list but then you may not like my association. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
Well, the trouble unfortunately is that when man gets together with his fellows there is usually bound to be some contention somewhere once in a while. I don't know how the Nephites were able to do it for so long except that once Christ makes an appearance it usually works for a long period of time. Unless He makes such an appearance it doesn't work. We've now had a little over two thousand years to prove this fact since the last appearance of Christ. Stacy. At 10:34 AM 06/15/2003 -0600, you wrote: Stacy, I am not interested in joining a list that only discusses one topic, although it might be interesting. I am really interested in a group of committed LDS that can discuss and suggest and gently critique the thoughts of others. There are a lot of questions that I feel need to be discussed - more as a way of checking my own understanding as well as sharing my insights with others. Most lists that say they want to do this allow Anti-Mormons to get on and dominate with their horrible comments. Or allow one person with an extreme, or even a not so extreme but unyielding view, to dominate. Too often one person will not be willing to discuss anything of real meaning because He/She already has the answer. I would like to find a list that does not have that problem. B H Roberts said: In essentials, let us have unity. In non-essentials, let us have liberty. In all things, let us have charity. (If not an exact quote it is close.) That would be a nice standard for any list. George - Original Message - From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye George, I guess I'm still here. I thought I had unsubscribed, but maybe I got sidetracked. There's been so much going on in my life I don't always check to see what lists I'm on anymore. What kinds of things do you wish to discuss? Eternal progression? Exaltation? What will happen to each one of us? I'm not sure I know the answer to the last question as my entire life hasn't come up for review yet. I know I'll have some regrets about the way I've handled my last working situation and I'm afraid I'm going to be in hot water over that one, since I can't right every wrong I committed in that situation. That's my one big regret and I honestly worry I'm going to lose out on that one. Stacy. At 07:29 PM 06/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: I had great hopes of finding a list where I could discuss gospel topics with true believers and not have the anti -Mormon baiters always jumping in with their obnoxious comments. It would be nice if the fellow participants would be willing to discuss without being judgmental if we happen to disagree a bit. I am still looking and would be interested if one of those 10 might fit the criteria. Otherwise I will likely just give up and go back to my study and figure it all out by myself. George - Original Message - From: Bill Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye When you consider why people leave certain lists, I find you must consider the other lists (if any) a person may review. Although, I consider myself a lurker, I'm a member of about 10 other mormon related lists, and I like this one the best. When you consider what is being said on some of the yahoo groups, like thinker, polygomy, libertarian, etc; this is the most tame one that I have come across. Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven asked: Why leave the list because of the few? I completely understand Gary's reasons for leaving. Once upon a time, this list was place where we met together with friends and discussed the gospel and all kinds of other things. It was a great source pleasure and an opportunity to meet many new friends too. Now, however, the list has changed to be more of a debating society. It is a place where people come to debate and contend with each other about gospel related (usually) subjects. Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. The list, as a whole, brings me no more of the joy it once did. I just loath losing touch with my friends. Oh, one more point. I used to read each and every post to the list. Even when there were were hundreds a day! When you start skipping threads and such, however, you start to lose interest in most of the day to day chatter that makes up the list. THat is the biggest problem with those
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
Steven asked: Why leave the list because of the few? I completely understand Gary's reasons for leaving. Once upon a time, this list was place where we met together with friends and discussed the gospel and all kinds of other things. It was a great source pleasure and an opportunity to meet many new friends too. Now, however, the list has changed to be more of a debating society. It is a place where people come to debate and contend with each other about gospel related (usually) subjects. Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. The list, as a whole, brings me no more of the joy it once did. I just loath losing touch with my friends. Oh, one more point. I used to read each and every post to the list. Even when there were were hundreds a day! When you start skipping threads and such, however, you start to lose interest in most of the day to day chatter that makes up the list. THat is the biggest problem with those who say if you don't like this discussion, just delete it! Once you start that, the list becomes just a list of email messages, not a community to you. That is what has happened to me, and why, one day, I will likely leave too. Scott -- I'd rather be riding! - Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
When you consider why people leave certain lists, I find you must consider the other lists (if any) a person may review. Although, I consider myself a lurker, I'm a member of about 10 other mormon related lists, and I like this one the best. When you consider what is being said on some of the yahoo groups, like thinker, polygomy, libertarian, etc; this is the most tame one that I have come across. Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven asked: Why leave the list because of the few? I completely understand Gary's reasons for leaving. Once upon a time, this list was place where we met together with friends and discussed the gospel and all kinds of other things. It was a great source pleasure and an opportunity to meet many new friends too. Now, however, the list has changed to be more of a debating society. It is a place where people come to debate and contend with each other about gospel related (usually) subjects. Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. The list, as a whole, brings me no more of the joy it once did. I just loath losing touch with my friends. Oh, one more point. I used to read each and every post to the list. Even when there were were hundreds a day! When you start skipping threads and such, however, you start to lose interest in most of the day to day chatter that makes up the list. THat is the biggest problem with those who say if you don't like this discussion, just delete it! Once you start that, the list becomes just a list of email messages, not a community to you. That is what has happened to me, and why, one day, I will likely leave too. Scott -- I'd rather be riding! - Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
I had great hopes of finding a list where I could discuss gospel topics with true believers and not have the anti -Mormon baiters always jumping in with their obnoxious comments. It would be nice if the fellow participants would be willing to discuss without being judgmental if we happen to disagree a bit. I am still looking and would be interested if one of those 10 might fit the criteria. Otherwise I will likely just give up and go back to my study and figure it all out by myself. George - Original Message - From: Bill Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye When you consider why people leave certain lists, I find you must consider the other lists (if any) a person may review. Although, I consider myself a lurker, I'm a member of about 10 other mormon related lists, and I like this one the best. When you consider what is being said on some of the yahoo groups, like thinker, polygomy, libertarian, etc; this is the most tame one that I have come across. Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven asked: Why leave the list because of the few? I completely understand Gary's reasons for leaving. Once upon a time, this list was place where we met together with friends and discussed the gospel and all kinds of other things. It was a great source pleasure and an opportunity to meet many new friends too. Now, however, the list has changed to be more of a debating society. It is a place where people come to debate and contend with each other about gospel related (usually) subjects. Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. The list, as a whole, brings me no more of the joy it once did. I just loath losing touch with my friends. Oh, one more point. I used to read each and every post to the list. Even when there were were hundreds a day! When you start skipping threads and such, however, you start to lose interest in most of the day to day chatter that makes up the list. THat is the biggest problem with those who say if you don't like this discussion, just delete it! Once you start that, the list becomes just a list of email messages, not a community to you. That is what has happened to me, and why, one day, I will likely leave too. Scott -- I'd rather be riding! - Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
George, I guess I'm still here. I thought I had unsubscribed, but maybe I got sidetracked. There's been so much going on in my life I don't always check to see what lists I'm on anymore. What kinds of things do you wish to discuss? Eternal progression? Exaltation? What will happen to each one of us? I'm not sure I know the answer to the last question as my entire life hasn't come up for review yet. I know I'll have some regrets about the way I've handled my last working situation and I'm afraid I'm going to be in hot water over that one, since I can't right every wrong I committed in that situation. That's my one big regret and I honestly worry I'm going to lose out on that one. Stacy. At 07:29 PM 06/14/2003 -0600, you wrote: I had great hopes of finding a list where I could discuss gospel topics with true believers and not have the anti -Mormon baiters always jumping in with their obnoxious comments. It would be nice if the fellow participants would be willing to discuss without being judgmental if we happen to disagree a bit. I am still looking and would be interested if one of those 10 might fit the criteria. Otherwise I will likely just give up and go back to my study and figure it all out by myself. George - Original Message - From: Bill Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye When you consider why people leave certain lists, I find you must consider the other lists (if any) a person may review. Although, I consider myself a lurker, I'm a member of about 10 other mormon related lists, and I like this one the best. When you consider what is being said on some of the yahoo groups, like thinker, polygomy, libertarian, etc; this is the most tame one that I have come across. Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven asked: Why leave the list because of the few? I completely understand Gary's reasons for leaving. Once upon a time, this list was place where we met together with friends and discussed the gospel and all kinds of other things. It was a great source pleasure and an opportunity to meet many new friends too. Now, however, the list has changed to be more of a debating society. It is a place where people come to debate and contend with each other about gospel related (usually) subjects. Like Gary, I have thought of leaving the list. The major reason I have not is that there continue to be a number of good friends (like Gary, also JWR, ELF, Grandpa Bill, and many others) who post occasional notes. I enjoy this association with them, even though it is often hidden among the other posts. I would probably have already left the list if volume weren't so much lower than I can afford to wade through the rubbish looking for my friends. The list, as a whole, brings me no more of the joy it once did. I just loath losing touch with my friends. Oh, one more point. I used to read each and every post to the list. Even when there were were hundreds a day! When you start skipping threads and such, however, you start to lose interest in most of the day to day chatter that makes up the list. THat is the biggest problem with those who say if you don't like this discussion, just delete it! Once you start that, the list becomes just a list of email messages, not a community to you. That is what has happened to me, and why, one day, I will likely leave too. Scott -- I'd rather be riding! - Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
Steven Montgomery wrote: Why leave the list because of a few? Personally, this has been the most thought provoking question for me since I've been on the list. And to be honest, I'm not quite sure what the answer is. I could say that a few rotten apples spoil the entire bushel , but as you suggest, I ignore 99% of the negative threads. So while the negativity may play a part, I don't think that's the real reason. I think the bigger reason is the feeling and the tone that I get from the list -- something that's there but hard to measure. Like the scripture in John 3:8 says, I can hear the wind and I can feel it, too, but I just can't see it -- something that's there but hard to put my finger on. I've been on LDS lists before, and I've excused myself before. Perhaps it's the nature of discussion groups in general or my own set of personal inadequacies or likely a combination of both. For some reason, my expectation is to feel that I'm participating in a Family Home Evening, where the feelings are warm and affectionate. Instead, I generally come away with the same feeling that I get when I visit a different ward in the stake, like I'm simply a visitor and not really part of the group, the odd man out, the goofball over in the corner. The Lord loves goofballs, so why can't we love each other a bit more? Because of fear, I suppose. As I ponder my thoughts and feelings out loud here, I suppose what I'm looking for can't be found, at least not from within an internet discussion group. If I don't feel genuinely greeted or warmly welcomed by fellow church members in a different ward, how can I expect to get this feeling and interaction from letters and words on a computer screen? I've enjoyed your comments, Steven, and your views are very similar to mine. I wish you and others here the best -- GBWYTWMA, TJ == / (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-- Reduce or eliminate your need for glasses NATURALLY. http://www.geocities.com/simplyvision/ == From: Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ZION] Goodbye Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:56:57 -0600 At 08:00 AM 6/10/2003, you wrote: Goodbye, Gerald, and thank you for all your interesting posts. I, too, will be signing off the list. No, don't shed a tear for me -- I'll be all right. I've enjoyed the list discussions but not as much as I thought I would. By the name of the list, I thought there would be a bit more camaraderie and a little less rivalry, but I think I was wrong. And please forgive me if I sound judgemental, because I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I certainly have no room to cast any stones -- I'm simply trying to make sense of my short experience here. Anyhow, good luck to you all, and may your personal decisions bring you joy and peace -- Terrance Hammond TJ Most people in my experience on ZION and LDS-DOCTRINE *are* respectful and try to be friends with all. Many simply enjoy the discussions and lurk because they either don't have the time to actively participate or feel inadequate to do so. A few have strong opinions and feelings but we always have the option to simply ignore them. Why leave the list because of a few? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
At 09:35 AM 6/11/2003, Terrance wrote: As I ponder my thoughts and feelings out loud here, I suppose what I'm looking for can't be found, at least not from within an internet discussion group. If I don't feel genuinely greeted or warmly welcomed by fellow church members in a different ward, how can I expect to get this feeling and interaction from letters and words on a computer screen? My remarks are not directed against you specifically, but I suspect that what we garner from Internet lists in the way of further enlightenment, knowledge, genuineness, or warmth will be close to the effort we put into them. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Goodbye
Goodbye, Gerald, and thank you for all your interesting posts. I, too, will be signing off the list. No, don't shed a tear for me -- I'll be all right. I've enjoyed the list discussions but not as much as I thought I would. By the name of the list, I thought there would be a bit more camaraderie and a little less rivalry, but I think I was wrong. And please forgive me if I sound judgemental, because I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I certainly have no room to cast any stones -- I'm simply trying to make sense of my short experience here. Anyhow, good luck to you all, and may your personal decisions bring you joy and peace -- Terrance Hammond TJ == / (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-- Reduce or eliminate your need for glasses NATURALLY. http://www.geocities.com/simplyvision/ == _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Goodbye
It is only with faith in God that we are able to face the events of this life. We often face the daily basic routine happenings, hardly recognizing the vital moving force that accompanies our comings and goings. However, like the ebb and flow of the waters on the shoreline, there come occasions of high tide when the power of faith is activated in ways that we recognize as miraculous, and they become the very fruits of faith. They bear evidence of the realities of God and our relationship to him. It is then that we can draw deeply from a reservoir of faith gradually accumulated over years of learning and living the gospel and coming to know the Savior. With unwavering faith in God and the righteous desire of our hearts, we can call upon the Lord and actually witness his hand in our own personal lives. I know this to be true. (Ardeth Kapp, _The Lectures on Faith in Historical Perspective_, BYU Press) My lifelong experience verifies this assertion. Short-lived experiments often return a skewed perspective that does not accurately reflect the long-term reality. We cannot trifle with sacred covenants and expect to gain the same end as those who abide in faith. We can only find greater truths by really exercising long-suffering and endurance. The parable of the ten virgins is instructive. Only those who are prepared to wait patiently on the Lord will eventually find their reward. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] Goodbye
I have received several emails over the years by members of Zion and LDS Doctrine thanking me for my moderate and common sense views. I thank those who have appreciated my remarks over the years. However, the time has come when I must say goodbye to both lists. I have found that the tenor of both lists has changed over the years. Where LDS Doctrine was set up to be a place to discuss doctrine and share opinions, it has become a place different than its charter. Zion went through a difficult time (again) with the past war, with friends divided against one another. This has worn me out. I have more important things to do with my time, I feel, than try and help grown-ups act like grown-ups. But what has truly amazed me and torn me apart inside, has been seeing good LDS people find conspiracies in every shadow. Accusations, not only against political leaders, but even Church members and leaders have come out of both lists. On LDS Doctrine, members are accusing FARMS of being full of evil people requiring BYU and the prophets to rein them in. In reality, FARMS needed funding, and the Church wanted to expand its influence in the world. But some just do not want to see the truth, because conspiracies are so much more entertaining. I'm tired of conspiracies. I know some exist, but finding a sasquatch behind every tree is not my calling in life. Nor is it my calling to call others on these list to repentance, but that is exactly what I find I've had to do on many occasions. So, I leave you to your conspiracies. For those of you who wish to continue private conversation, please feel free to email me. I will also be on the FAIR internal list (yes folks, another conspiratorial group), and LDS-Phil. Although I may not agree with all these folks say, they try not to enter into ad hominem attacks, they try learning from each other, and do not find conspiracies everywhere. I can spend my time editing and writing articles that are useful to the Church, rather than using so much energy just trying to maintain such high maintenance lists. There are many on these lists, who over the years have uplifted me. I thank you for your strength. But with each passing year, that list seems to have grown shorter and shorter as many have left or gone quiet on the list. So, goodbye, and God bless you all. K'aya K'ama, Gerald (Gary) Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, Family History, Food Storage, etc. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
