Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
I didn't see the marriage thing as anything but that--but I'm not into conspiracy as many on this list are ;-). I was actually proud of little Dubyah that he had the guts to stand up for something like marriage. For me, I am glad to have heard the words, "marriage is sacred" spoken by the leader of our country (I wondered at that moment if he hadn't just gotten off the phone with Pres. Hinckley!). The Marriage is one of Satan's many battlefields, as is the family. If he can successfully destroy the family, then the Church will fail. Since we know that's not supposed to happen, can we presume the family is safe? I don't think so. While I don't agree with constitutionalizing marriage, I believe a stand by our leaders is necessary in the fight for the preservation of something as sacred as marriage. val On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:30:34 -0400 Grampa Bill in Savannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: > > >I don't think, though, that the persecution will have the backing > of the government as it did in the days of Boggs. > > > = > Grampa Bill comments: > snip> There is a movement afoot today to pass a Constitutional > amendment > to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. This is > being > promoted as a ban on homosexual marriage. I view it as a > Constitutional > sanction against Plural Marriage. Now, I do not know if this > principle > will again be restored prior to the Lord's return. But if this > amendment > is passed and the principle restored, you can bet that the full > armed > might of the government will be raised against us. > People are people. They are no less bigoted and devilish than > they > were a hundred or two hundred years ago. They just have a thin > veneer of > sophistication to hide their bigotry. > Love y'all, > Grampa Bill in Savannah > > / / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: For me, I am glad to have heard the words, "marriage is sacred" spoken by the leader of our country (I wondered at that moment if he hadn't just gotten off the phone with Pres. Hinckley!). I agree that President Bush is either the most righteous man we have had for President of the United States in modern times, or the biggest hypocrite. Time will tell. If he is a hypocrite, he has snookered a lot of really wonderful, good people. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
Saints and will yet persecute > because > eventually they are going to have to pay a terrible price and they > don't > even know it. What a terrible surprise that will be. If I have > faith, if > I truly live the gospel, what of any eternal significance can happen > to me? > > Just my two cents' worth... > Heidi the fair > > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Valerie Nielsen Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 8/8/2003 4:32:27 PM > > Subject: Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo > > > > The feelings then are still present today. I have been to Nauvoo > twice > > in the past year, and both times met up with people who absolutely > hate > > us. I'm not sure they even know why they do, except it has been > taught > > to them to hate. As I stood looking across the mighty > Mississippi, I > > tried to imagine the Saints crossing with wagons and horses. It > was > > incomprehensible to me. I get nervous driving over that river on > a > > bridge. Then, on the Iowa side, I looked over and saw what the > Saints > > must have seen--the beautiful Nauvoo temple, shining and > beautiful. I > > cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like to work so > hard to > > build that edifice, only to have to leave it behind. In fact, it > was > > finished and dedicated after many Saints had already left Nauvoo. > I > > can't be so sure that I would not have stayed behind with > Emma--she had > > already suffered so much loss. > > > > It is unfortunate that such hatred exists--but it did then and it > still > > does. If anyone read the article link I sent the other day, then > you > > know that such hatred still exists. A few months ago we discussed > here, > > briefly, Pres. Hinckley's allusion to our season of relative > comfort > > coming to an end. At the April 2001 General Conference, he > mentioned the > > relative peace we lived in, and the fact there were no big wars. > Of > > course we know what happened less than a month before the Oct > 2001 > > conference. At that conference GBHinckley talked very strongly > about the > > evil that still exists in the world today. He emphasized over and > over > > the value of our testimonies and faith. Especially our faith. > > > > I still remember hearing him speak and thinking to myself that we > are > > going to, again, be a persecuted people. I doubt it will be in > the same > > manner it was then--our country has laws now against such things, > but I > > believe it will happen nonetheless. I still have people who have > known > > me for years give me the strangest look and turn their backs when > they > > find out I am a Mormon. I much prefer those who find out and joke > with > > me about which wife I am. At least I have something on which to > build. > > But those who say nothing and just walk away. . . > > > > my 2cents > > val > > > > > > On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:48:36 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. > > > > Allen and > > > Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were > > > > forced to > > > leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned > > > departure in > > > April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints who > were > > > too poor > > > to make the trek, but who were forced across the river > > > nevertheless. Reading this history, I just can't help feeling > a > > > deep > > > resentment towards the American people who either persecuted the > > > > saints or > > > looked the other way while they were persecuted. > > > > > > Over a thousand saints died on the trail that first winter, the > > > > winter of > > > 1846-47. Disgusting. > > > > > > > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > === > > > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > > > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > > > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > > > === > > > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > > > &g
[ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. Allen and Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were forced to leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned departure in April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints who were too poor to make the trek, but who were forced across the river nevertheless. Reading this history, I just can't help feeling a deep resentment towards the American people who either persecuted the saints or looked the other way while they were persecuted. Over a thousand saints died on the trail that first winter, the winter of 1846-47. Disgusting. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
I have to admit that I didn't know that much about Nauvoo and what happened to the Saints until I read the "150 Years Ago Today" series that began on Zion. It grew into what we now know as Gems. My ancestors were there alone with my wife's. (Please don't think that I'm announcing that I'm a great Latter-day Saint just because my family was at Nauvoo - I still have a LONG way to go just to get myself where I need to be). As I read the narrative, I gained a testimony of a couple of things. First, the Saints needed a decision point. Would they, one last time, submit themselves to hardship by remaining loyal to the Gospel. Many didn't, not a huge group, but some certainly didn't decide to move west - they felt that their comfort, safety, and wealth were more important than eternal life. They took the easy route and became Re-Organites, etc. Second, and a by-product of the first, a cleansing of Zion was needed. A final (for then) culling of the heard was needed to build Zion in the mountains. The Prophet Brigham Young didn't need his attention diverted by taking care of dissention in the West while he was building the initial infrastructure for Utah, Idaho, etc. A peaceful period was needed from those who would harm or make afraid the Saints. Third, and perhaps most iportantly, Joseph needed to seal his testimony. How much more powerful did the testimony of the first vision and the Book of Mormon become when he gave himself up like a lamb going to the slaughter. He declared himself calm as the morning as he and the patriarch submitted themselves to the authorities (gods) of this world. I stood there in the street where the wagons were queued up to cross the Mississippi. There was a plaque there amongst the others quoting my ancestor. I wept openly as I read it. Even though I am adopted into the family and none of his blood flows through my veins, I was and am greatful to him and all he went through. I'm greatful to another ancestor who died at Winter Quarters, leaving behind two young wives who had to make the rest of the journey relying on each other and the generosity of the Saints on the trail and in Utah to raise up a righteous family. I know that it will happen again. To tell you the truth, I look forward to it. I'm REALLY tired of those who declare themselves royal families, who know that we can buy anything in this world with money, who thnk of those of us who have sufficient for our needs are lesser members of the Church. It will be interesting to see how many of us will actually be left. But this is where my knowledge of the prophesies gets sketchy. Will this be just before another exodus, this time to Independence, MO? I hear this discussed in some quarters but I'm unclear as to when this will happen and its timing. Tom John W. Redelfs wrote: > I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. Allen > and Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were > forced to leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned > departure in April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints > who were too poor to make the trek, but who were forced across the > river nevertheless. Reading this history, I just can't help feeling > a deep resentment towards the American people who either persecuted > the saints or looked the other way while they were persecuted. > > Over a thousand saints died on the trail that first winter, the winter > of 1846-47. Disgusting. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
John W. Redelfs" wrote: > I agree that President Bush is either the most righteous man we have had > for President of the United States in modern times, or the biggest > hypocrite. Time will tell. If he is a hypocrite, he has snookered a lot > of really wonderful, good people. --JWR Why, thanks for the compliment! Jon // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: I don't think, though, that the persecution will have the backing of the government as it did in the days of Boggs. = Grampa Bill comments: I beg to disagree. I 'spect there are many in government, both elected and appointed, who, when the winds are blowing correctly, would use the full power of their office to persecute us, either to gratfy their own hatred or to curry favor with a hating constituency. There is a movement afoot today to pass a Constitutional amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. This is being promoted as a ban on homosexual marriage. I view it as a Constitutional sanction against Plural Marriage. Now, I do not know if this principle will again be restored prior to the Lord's return. But if this amendment is passed and the principle restored, you can bet that the full armed might of the government will be raised against us. People are people. They are no less bigoted and devilish than they were a hundred or two hundred years ago. They just have a thin veneer of sophistication to hide their bigotry. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
More sophisticated? They like to think so, but they are just more worldly, and farther from the principles that lead to life. They will persecute us, using us (and other believers in Christ and Jews) as the scapegoats for the ills of the world. If only we would believe as they do, if only we would shed the archaic beliefs in some being beyond this world and understand that we just need to tolerate our differences and not hold to such a hardline doctrine, then we would understand that we can all achieve a higher level of being and of peace by working together... Of course, we know that this line will be a twisting of the truth and those who continue to hold onto the iron rod will be persecuted as the cause of so many problems. They will make special laws that WILL persecute us, despite their mantra of tolerance. They've done it before. They'll do it again. I believe we have seen the beginnings of this already. The pieces are being placed. Both sides (good and evil) have a master plan. But that doesn't matter. We only need to hold to the rod. ** For those of you who are long-time Zion members, you may remember me - Rusty Taylor. I've been on John's lists off and on since the beginning... anyone else remember the awesome cyber-food fights we had? Well, I've been teaching Seminary for the last 4 years and didn't have time to do that and be on this list. Now, I'm done for a while. I need a break. Our oldest son has left on his mission and our younger son will be a senior in high school this year. I want to spend more time with him before he goes on his mission. For those of you who don't know me - I joined the Church at 16 with my parents and younger 2 sisters (an older brother was away at college at the time and has never joined). We were baptized at the Joseph Smith Memorial in Sharon, VT. I went to school at BYU and went on a mission to Sapporo, Japan. Then I met my husband, Bob - we got married, moved to Alaska and ended up in Kotzebue. That's where we met John and Esperanza. After 6 years and adopting our sons, we moved back to the lower 48, and have lived on the Kitsap Peninsula (across the Puget Sound from Seattle) ever since. I work for the local school district. I don't have a Church calling at the moment. I'm looking forward to being part of "Zion", again. Yoroshiku onegai itashimasu! Sis. Rusty >Persecution against the Saints does not have to assume the same form as >those overt violent acts against the Church in the Nauvoo period. Even >more hateful and vindictive injustice was weighed against the Church >after it was established in the Rocky Mountains. The extent of the >bureacratic and legalistic punishment of the Church by the US Government >during that period is difficult to fathom. Such predations could easily >be revisited in the near future. It seems that all the motivation >required during the earlier period of anti-Mormon aggression was the >manipulation of public sentiment by powerful people in high places. Are >people any more sophisticated today? ** "There are no coincidences, only small miracles." Author Unknown Mrs. Rusty Taylor - Poulsbo, WA [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) website -- http://pacific.telebyte.com/~brtaylor/ ** // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
Even though our country has laws against certain forms of persecution (would it fall under "hate crimes"?), I believe that when it comes to the Saints, those laws will be ignored. I believe that any breaking of those laws will be overlooked, much as KKK activities were overlooked for so long. Laws or no laws, we are going to be persecuted. I believe that it has already begun, though not yet widespread. Faith, like Pres. Hinckley said, is the key. With faith, I can feel pity for those who have persecuted the Saints and will yet persecute because eventually they are going to have to pay a terrible price and they don't even know it. What a terrible surprise that will be. If I have faith, if I truly live the gospel, what of any eternal significance can happen to me? Just my two cents' worth... Heidi the fair > [Original Message] > From: Valerie Nielsen Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 8/8/2003 4:32:27 PM > Subject: Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo > > The feelings then are still present today. I have been to Nauvoo twice > in the past year, and both times met up with people who absolutely hate > us. I'm not sure they even know why they do, except it has been taught > to them to hate. As I stood looking across the mighty Mississippi, I > tried to imagine the Saints crossing with wagons and horses. It was > incomprehensible to me. I get nervous driving over that river on a > bridge. Then, on the Iowa side, I looked over and saw what the Saints > must have seen--the beautiful Nauvoo temple, shining and beautiful. I > cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like to work so hard to > build that edifice, only to have to leave it behind. In fact, it was > finished and dedicated after many Saints had already left Nauvoo. I > can't be so sure that I would not have stayed behind with Emma--she had > already suffered so much loss. > > It is unfortunate that such hatred exists--but it did then and it still > does. If anyone read the article link I sent the other day, then you > know that such hatred still exists. A few months ago we discussed here, > briefly, Pres. Hinckley's allusion to our season of relative comfort > coming to an end. At the April 2001 General Conference, he mentioned the > relative peace we lived in, and the fact there were no big wars. Of > course we know what happened less than a month before the Oct 2001 > conference. At that conference GBHinckley talked very strongly about the > evil that still exists in the world today. He emphasized over and over > the value of our testimonies and faith. Especially our faith. > > I still remember hearing him speak and thinking to myself that we are > going to, again, be a persecuted people. I doubt it will be in the same > manner it was then--our country has laws now against such things, but I > believe it will happen nonetheless. I still have people who have known > me for years give me the strangest look and turn their backs when they > find out I am a Mormon. I much prefer those who find out and joke with > me about which wife I am. At least I have something on which to build. > But those who say nothing and just walk away. . . > > my 2cents > val > > > On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:48:36 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. > > Allen and > > Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were > > forced to > > leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned > > departure in > > April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints who were > > too poor > > to make the trek, but who were forced across the river > > nevertheless. Reading this history, I just can't help feeling a > > deep > > resentment towards the American people who either persecuted the > > saints or > > looked the other way while they were persecuted. > > > > Over a thousand saints died on the trail that first winter, the > > winter of > > 1846-47. Disgusting. > > > > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > === > > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > > === > > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > > > > / > / > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read
RE: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
Persecution against the Saints does not have to assume the same form as those overt violent acts against the Church in the Nauvoo period. Even more hateful and vindictive injustice was weighed against the Church after it was established in the Rocky Mountains. The extent of the bureacratic and legalistic punishment of the Church by the US Government during that period is difficult to fathom. Such predations could easily be revisited in the near future. It seems that all the motivation required during the earlier period of anti-Mormon aggression was the manipulation of public sentiment by powerful people in high places. Are people any more sophisticated today? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo
The feelings then are still present today. I have been to Nauvoo twice in the past year, and both times met up with people who absolutely hate us. I'm not sure they even know why they do, except it has been taught to them to hate. As I stood looking across the mighty Mississippi, I tried to imagine the Saints crossing with wagons and horses. It was incomprehensible to me. I get nervous driving over that river on a bridge. Then, on the Iowa side, I looked over and saw what the Saints must have seen--the beautiful Nauvoo temple, shining and beautiful. I cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like to work so hard to build that edifice, only to have to leave it behind. In fact, it was finished and dedicated after many Saints had already left Nauvoo. I can't be so sure that I would not have stayed behind with Emma--she had already suffered so much loss. It is unfortunate that such hatred exists--but it did then and it still does. If anyone read the article link I sent the other day, then you know that such hatred still exists. A few months ago we discussed here, briefly, Pres. Hinckley's allusion to our season of relative comfort coming to an end. At the April 2001 General Conference, he mentioned the relative peace we lived in, and the fact there were no big wars. Of course we know what happened less than a month before the Oct 2001 conference. At that conference GBHinckley talked very strongly about the evil that still exists in the world today. He emphasized over and over the value of our testimonies and faith. Especially our faith. I still remember hearing him speak and thinking to myself that we are going to, again, be a persecuted people. I doubt it will be in the same manner it was then--our country has laws now against such things, but I believe it will happen nonetheless. I still have people who have known me for years give me the strangest look and turn their backs when they find out I am a Mormon. I much prefer those who find out and joke with me about which wife I am. At least I have something on which to build. But those who say nothing and just walk away. . . my 2cents val On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:48:36 -0800 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. > Allen and > Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were > forced to > leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned > departure in > April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints who were > too poor > to make the trek, but who were forced across the river > nevertheless. Reading this history, I just can't help feeling a > deep > resentment towards the American people who either persecuted the > saints or > looked the other way while they were persecuted. > > Over a thousand saints died on the trail that first winter, the > winter of > 1846-47. Disgusting. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > / / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
