Re: ConflictError's worthwhile to note? (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging)
Dieter Maurer wrote: In a similar way, I could argue that MemoryErrors are there by design. While it is true that *occational* ConflictErrors are nothing to worry about, a higher rate indicates that you soon may come into trouble -- because the risk increases that the automatic retries will not be able to recover and your users will see errors. Obviously, a ConflictError is far less important than a MemoryError, but a higher rate of conflicts should be analysed and if possible avoided. The conflict rate is related to the quality of your application design. I like quality related information in my logfiles -- to be able to take action before it is too late. It's not often you get my and Dieter agreeing, but a huge +1 to all of this from me! Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level:INFO 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retriedConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? no, without traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are alsologged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged tothe event log, and at which level:ERROR ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
How about adding a URL to the logged message? Something like See http://zope.org/ConflictError; detailing the difference between a retried and unresovled ConflictErrors and how to recognise them in the event.log. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: INFO 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? no traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: Yes, at ERROR level /dario ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) -- -- --- Dario Lopez-Kästen, IT Systems Services Chalmers University of Tech. Lyrics applied to programming application design: emancipate yourself from mental slavery - redemption song, b. marley ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: In my case it's mostly filesystem-based resources (css files, or images) accessed in read mode (zope-2.8.4). But the information no matter where it comes from has very little value compared to other messages in the log file, because these are completely predictable. That's your judgement. Many of us feel differently. In the log flle I'd like to be informed about events that are unexpected. Conflict errors of this kind occur by design. ...well, by the design of your app, yes. If you're getting more than a few, you really need to reconsider your design. cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 23:00 +0100, Florent Guillaume wrote: 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback No Traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other Error (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results. Thanks, Florent Andrew ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Florent Guillaume wrote at 2005-12-2 23:00 +0100:
Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict
errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user
but automatically retried by the Zope publisher.
1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level:
- INFO
- BLATHER
- DEBUG
- not logged
- other
INFO
(i *really* want to know, if there are lots of conflict errors)
2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried
ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged?
- Yes, with traceback
- No, without traceback
No traceback
(as Dieter has pointed out, they contain no useful information)
3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be
retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also
logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to
the event log, and at which level:
- ERROR
- not logged
- other
Like any other exception seen by the user
Thanks!
\wlang{}
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fax: +43/1/31336/9207
Zentrum fuer Informatikdienste, Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Austria
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Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Florent Guillaume wrote: Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user but automatically retried by the Zope publisher. 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other BLATHER. 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback with traceback because of the BLATHER mode above. 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other ERROR (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) Of course the same... J. - -- Julien Anguenot | Nuxeo RD (Paris, France) CPS Platform : http://www.cps-project.org Zope3 / ECM : http://www.z3lab.org mail: anguenot at nuxeo.com; tel: +33 (0) 6 72 57 57 66 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDlNhcGhoG8MxZ/pIRAsg4AJkBPnW4zGrl4GdZxEXXEZCpwcCdswCfU3hE 41XwD/GgOGRNAEC0nYh7lKM= =qNsx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
ConflictError's worthwhile to note? (was: Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging)
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote at 2005-12-4 22:28 +0100: ... In the log flle I'd like to be informed about events that are unexpected. Conflict errors of this kind occur by design. This argument is not convincing: In a similar way, I could argue that MemoryErrors are there by design. While it is true that *occational* ConflictErrors are nothing to worry about, a higher rate indicates that you soon may come into trouble -- because the risk increases that the automatic retries will not be able to recover and your users will see errors. Obviously, a ConflictError is far less important than a MemoryError, but a higher rate of conflicts should be analysed and if possible avoided. The conflict rate is related to the quality of your application design. I like quality related information in my logfiles -- to be able to take action before it is too late. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote at 2005-12-2 23:57 +0100: ... on what level to report retried ConflictError ... BLATHER (I have never be able to get any meaningful information from them, except that zope tries several times) That's because the generated messages *were* uninformative. You can see the critical spots (the objects causing lots of conflicts) easily with sane log messages. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Florent Guillaume wrote at 2005-12-2 23:00 +0100: Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user but automatically retried by the Zope publisher. 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other INFO 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback No traceback, as it usually will come from commit code and not really contain useful information. 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other They should be treated as any other exception seen by the user: They should be routed via error_log and standard_error_message; they should not cause a special log entry (they are not more dangerous than other exceptions seen by the user). I think your vote might be more interesting for Zope users rather than Zope developers. -- Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Dieter Maurer wrote: Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote at 2005-12-2 23:57 +0100: ... on what level to report retried ConflictError ... BLATHER (I have never be able to get any meaningful information from them, except that zope tries several times) That's because the generated messages *were* uninformative. You can see the critical spots (the objects causing lots of conflicts) easily with sane log messages. In my case it's mostly filesystem-based resources (css files, or images) accessed in read mode (zope-2.8.4). But the information no matter where it comes from has very little value compared to other messages in the log file, because these are completely predictable. In the log flle I'd like to be informed about events that are unexpected. Conflict errors of this kind occur by design. regards /JM ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user but automatically retried by the Zope publisher. 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results. Thanks, Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of RD +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: INFO 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? no traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: ERROR jens ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
On Dec 2, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Florent Guillaume wrote: Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user but automatically retried by the Zope publisher. 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other INFO or BLATHER 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback Traceback if at BLATHER, no traceback if at INFO. 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other ERROR (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results. Thanks, Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of RD +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists -http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
1. INFO 2. Yes, with traceback (necessary as these are heissenevents) 3. ERROR 4. don't care -- we can adapt Thanks Florent for taking the lead on this. I think it's a great help. On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Florent Guillaume wrote: Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user but automatically retried by the Zope publisher. 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results. Thanks, Florent -- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Florent Guillaume wrote: Please vote for the level at which you want to log retried conflict errors. These are the ConflictErrors that aren't returned to the user but automatically retried by the Zope publisher. 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO - BLATHER - DEBUG - not logged - other BLATHER (I have never be able to get any meaningful information from them, except that zope tries several times) 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - Yes, with traceback - No, without traceback Full traceback, since we're in BLATHER mode 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR - not logged - other ERROR /JM (Also, if you feel the logging should be different between 2.8 and 2.9, please say so.) I'll wait until Wednesday morning to collect results. Thanks, Florent ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Florent Guillaume wrote: 1. Do you want these ConflictErrors retried logs to be at level: - INFO 2. In addition, please specify if you feel those retried ConflictErrors should have their full traceback logged? - No, without traceback The actual traceback for any conflict error is pretty useless, since it comes from one of very few places inside zodb 3. Finally, please tell us if the ConflictErrors that *can't* be retried (and are returned to the user as an error, and are also logged to the error_log) should be additionally explicitely logged to the event log, and at which level: - ERROR ...ie: handled in the same way as any other user-visible error: standard_error_message and error_log. cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Please vote about conflict errors logging
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: BLATHER (I have never be able to get any meaningful information from them, except that zope tries several times) That's because they excluded any useful information before. The implementation I've put in tells you, at info level, what error actually occurred, what object it occurred on, how many conflicts occurred since server start and how many of those were resolved. It's compact and informative. I'd suggest anyone who's voting for blather should actually check out the trunk and try the functional test I put in to see the new code in action... cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
