subject:"Drexciya"

Steven had a “dream” and then had to tell us all about this amazing “dream.”

A long while after the conversation ended. 

Are you my mother?

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:38, Benn Glazier  wrote:
> 
> Denise - Steven has cap in hand apologised. You are now denigrating him for 
> that. I do not feel it serves a purpose to further chastise him about the 
> matter. 
> 
> We know how you feel, and rightly or wrongly people will agree with you.  
> You've spent a lot of time discussing your point of view and others have 
> shared theirs which I'm all for. Remember, all of us do not live in Detroit 
> or the US or have had first-hand contact with racial discrimination. 
> 
> Whilst that doesn't at all mean for one minute we're disagreeing with how 
> blacks have been downtrodden in society, it means our exposure is different. 
> In my eyes your points are more than valid but one's own experiences elicit a 
> response, and whilst we can be more well read than in previous years thanks 
> to technology, there's still a lot to learn for anyone who has not grown up 
> with or been subject to this oppression. Humans are fickle and behaviour to 
> get people on board needs to be constructive. Short answer, it would have 
> been great if RA had of produced the piece in the way that has been 
> discussed!  Bottom line, Denise, you made Stephen dig deeper and read and 
> learn and that's great, but don't beat him down further!
> 
> Now to not be faceless, for those that don't know me I'm a white guy (who has 
> some north African roots!) who grew up in Australia. Where does even one 
> start to discuss what we've done to our Indigenous population.  I live in 
> London now, and I look around the office today and I can see people of all 
> backgrounds getting on harmoniously - and that's London for you. Our racial 
> issues, whilst still existing, pale in comparison with many other countries 
> and cities.  Speaking of London, for those of you here, check these black 
> history walks around the city (I just did the Soho one) -  
> http://www.blackhistorywalks.co.uk/
> 
> Hatchet buried? Just not in his head (or mine).  Where's George M Smiley 
> these days? 
> 
> Now... I just picked up on some music by Javonntte.  Hadn't heard of him 
> until a couple of weeks ago. Great to find a new name. 
> 
> BG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 13:12 Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>> 
>> Conversation very confusing.
>> 
>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.
>>> 
>>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR and 
>>> Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews. 
>>> 
>>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not 
>>> arrogant enough to post the link again. 
>>> 
>>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re 
>>> all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about 
>>> who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 
>>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>>>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as 
>>>> it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which 
>>>> opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am 
>>>> sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a 
>>>> neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
>>>> 
>>>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel 
>>>> very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened 
>>>> to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was 
>>>> ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to 
>>>> appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the 
>>>> insult. I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a 
>>>> listener probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that 
>>>> I'm not disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I 
>>>> would be disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to 
>>>> be disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about 
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-11-06 Thread Benn Glazier

Denise - Steven has cap in hand apologised. You are now denigrating him for
that. I do not feel it serves a purpose to further chastise him about the
matter.

We know how you feel, and rightly or wrongly people will agree with you.
You've spent a lot of time discussing your point of view and others have
shared theirs which I'm all for. Remember, all of us do not live in Detroit
or the US or have had first-hand contact with racial discrimination.

Whilst that doesn't at all mean for one minute we're disagreeing with how
blacks have been downtrodden in society, it means our exposure is
different. In my eyes your points are more than valid but one's own
experiences elicit a response, and whilst we can be more well read than in
previous years thanks to technology, there's still a lot to learn for
anyone who has not grown up with or been subject to this oppression. Humans
are fickle and behaviour to get people on board needs to be constructive.
Short answer, it would have been great if RA had of produced the piece in
the way that has been discussed!  Bottom line, Denise, you made Stephen dig
deeper and read and learn and that's great, but don't beat him down further!

Now to not be faceless, for those that don't know me I'm a white guy (who
has some north African roots!) who grew up in Australia. Where does even
one start to discuss what we've done to our Indigenous population.  I live
in London now, and I look around the office today and I can see people of
all backgrounds getting on harmoniously - and that's London for you. Our
racial issues, whilst still existing, pale in comparison with many other
countries and cities.  Speaking of London, for those of you here, check
these black history walks around the city (I just did the Soho one) -
http://www.blackhistorywalks.co.uk/

Hatchet buried? Just not in his head (or mine).  Where's George M Smiley
these days?

Now... I just picked up on some music by Javonntte.  Hadn't heard of him
until a couple of weeks ago. Great to find a new name.

BG

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 13:12 Steven Robertson  wrote:

> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>
> Conversation very confusing.
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.
>
> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR
> and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews.
>
> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not
> arrogant enough to post the link again.
>
> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re
> all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about
> who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as
> it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which
> opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am
> sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a
> neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
>
> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel
> very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened to
> what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was
> ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to
> appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the insult.
> I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a listener
> probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not
> disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I would be
> disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be
> disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about it,
> leading to my ignorance.
>
> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise
> (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular email
> reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem happily
> provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and read more of
> what you have got to say about it. The music is something else in any case,
> but I accept that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind the
> music, and that you may be right.
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>
> Denise
>
> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard what
> James Stinson was saying t

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I will just unsubscribe from this list. I apologise for whatever I said
that caused or may cause offence. I'm only here for the music, and I'm
sorry for responding to this topic entirely. Bye.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:14 PM, Steven Robertson wrote:
> No idea what that is.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:13 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> “Provocative?” 
>> 
>> What is this 1988? Have you been watching Falcon Crest?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:12, Steven Robertson  wrote:>>> If I 
>> am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>>> 
>>> Conversation very confusing.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it
>>>> is rude.>>>> 
>>>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya
>>>> and UR and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good
>>>> reviews.>>>> 
>>>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but
>>>> not arrogant enough to post the link again.>>>> 
>>>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots,
>>>> you’re all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating
>>>> with you about who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. >>>> 
>>>> Denise
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson 
>>>> wrote:>>>>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about 
>>>> it,
>>>>> but as it happens I came across other information a couple of days
>>>>> ago which opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be
>>>>> fair, I am sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.
>>>>> I do not have a neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up
>>>>> with a conversation.>>>>> 
>>>>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did
>>>>> feel very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't
>>>>> really listened to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about
>>>>> it, because it was ignorant. In the same manner I would defend
>>>>> other parties that fail to appreciate the sensitive nature of it,
>>>>> as probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't see it that
>>>>> way, that the interpretation as a listener probably just suited my
>>>>> own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if
>>>>> that were the case, and I regret writing that I would be
>>>>> disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to
>>>>> be disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough
>>>>> about it, leading to my ignorance.>>>>> 
>>>>> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy
>>>>> surprise (though it probably depends on the image being used in
>>>>> the particular email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's
>>>>> meant to be. You seem happily provocative, and I don't really
>>>>> object to that. I might go and read more of what you have got to
>>>>> say about it. The music is something else in any case, but I
>>>>> accept that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind
>>>>> the music, and that you may be right.>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson 
>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> Denise
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really
>>>>>>> heard what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was
>>>>>>> about racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong.
>>>>>>> Only 20 minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half
>>>>>>> asleep, but I know this was playing on my mind since reading an
>>>>>>> article on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families
>>>>>>> in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

No idea what that is.


On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:13 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> “Provocative?” 
> 
> What is this 1988? Have you been watching Falcon Crest?
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:12, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
>> 
>> Conversation very confusing.
>> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it
>>> is rude.>>> 
>>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and
>>> UR and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews.>>> 
>>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not
>>> arrogant enough to post the link again.>>> 
>>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots,
>>> you’re all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating
>>> with you about who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. >>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:>>>> 
>>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it,
>>>> but as it happens I came across other information a couple of days
>>>> ago which opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be
>>>> fair, I am sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.
>>>> I do not have a neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up
>>>> with a conversation.>>>> 
>>>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did
>>>> feel very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't
>>>> really listened to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about
>>>> it, because it was ignorant. In the same manner I would defend
>>>> other parties that fail to appreciate the sensitive nature of it,
>>>> as probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't see it that way,
>>>> that the interpretation as a listener probably just suited my own
>>>> world view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if that
>>>> were the case, and I regret writing that I would be disappointed. I
>>>> am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be disappointed.
>>>> It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about it, leading
>>>> to my ignorance.>>>> 
>>>> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy
>>>> surprise (though it probably depends on the image being used in the
>>>> particular email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant
>>>> to be. You seem happily provocative, and I don't really object to
>>>> that. I might go and read more of what you have got to say about
>>>> it. The music is something else in any case, but I accept that you
>>>> probably know a lot better the motivations behind the music, and
>>>> that you may be right.>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson 
>>>>> wrote:>>>>>> Denise
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really
>>>>>> heard what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was
>>>>>> about racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong.
>>>>>> Only 20 minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep,
>>>>>> but I know this was playing on my mind since reading an article
>>>>>> on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families in the
>>>>>> slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and
>>>>>> honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
>>>>>> about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation
>>>>>> of Scotland by the British army for many many years following the
>>>>>> battle of Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances,
>>>>>> ordered by land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of
>>>>>> them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British
>&

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

“Provocative?” 

What is this 1988? Have you been watching Falcon Crest?



> On Nov 6, 2018, at 08:12, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.
> 
> Conversation very confusing.
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.
>> 
>> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR and 
>> Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews. 
>> 
>> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not 
>> arrogant enough to post the link again. 
>> 
>> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re 
>> all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about 
>> who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as 
>>> it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which 
>>> opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am 
>>> sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a 
>>> neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
>>> 
>>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel 
>>> very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened to 
>>> what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was 
>>> ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to 
>>> appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the insult. 
>>> I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a listener 
>>> probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not 
>>> disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I would be 
>>> disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be 
>>> disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough about it, 
>>> leading to my ignorance.
>>> 
>>> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise 
>>> (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular email 
>>> reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem happily 
>>> provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and read more of 
>>> what you have got to say about it. The music is something else in any case, 
>>> but I accept that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind the 
>>> music, and that you may be right.
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>>>>> Denise
>>>>> 
>>>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard 
>>>>> what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, 
>>>>> and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later 
>>>>> I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing 
>>>>> on my mind since reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of 
>>>>> Scottish families in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh 
>>>>> benefited, and honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about 
>>>>> the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by 
>>>>> the British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden. 
>>>>> Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in 
>>>>> England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice 
>>>>> an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the British ambassador 
>>>>> in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In 
>>>>> short, it says more about the British involvement in the slave trade at 
>>>>> the time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly used, but they 
>>>>> were used in some arrangement which was directly involved with the slave 
>>>>&

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

If I am, I really don't mean to be.  Guilty of poor communication.

Conversation very confusing.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 1:08 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it
> is rude.> 
> You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and
> UR and Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews.> 
> I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not
> arrogant enough to post the link again.> 
> Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots,
> you’re all the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with
> you about who you are. And I have to look like you. It sux. > 
> Denise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it,
>> but as it happens I came across other information a couple of days
>> ago which opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be
>> fair, I am sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I
>> do not have a neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with
>> a conversation.>> 
>> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did
>> feel very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really
>> listened to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it,
>> because it was ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other
>> parties that fail to appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as
>> probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't see it that way, that
>> the interpretation as a listener probably just suited my own world
>> view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if that were the
>> case, and I regret writing that I would be disappointed. I am not
>> personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be disappointed. It's fair
>> enough. I just don't really know enough about it, leading to my
>> ignorance.>> 
>> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise
>> (though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular
>> email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You
>> seem happily provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might
>> go and read more of what you have got to say about it. The music is
>> something else in any case, but I accept that you probably know a lot
>> better the motivations behind the music, and that you may be right.>> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:>>>> 
>>> Denise
>>>> 
>>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really
>>>> heard what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was
>>>> about racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong.
>>>> Only 20 minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep,
>>>> but I know this was playing on my mind since reading an article on
>>>> the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families in the slave
>>>> trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those
>>>> families. It makes you feel sick.>>>> 
>>>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
>>>> about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of
>>>> Scotland by the British army for many many years following the
>>>> battle of Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances,
>>>> ordered by land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of
>>>> them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British
>>>> Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in Paris. People
>>>> demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In short, it
>>>> says more about the British involvement in the slave trade at the
>>>> time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly used, but
>>>> they were used in some arrangement which was directly involved with
>>>> the slave trade. I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly
>>>> business. I was born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all
>>>> poor working class families. I think we should be taught this stuff
>>>> in school. That's all white-washing and as a result we are mostly
>>>> ignorant. I will apologise for my own ignorance, and appreciate
>>>> that you may be right. I certainly woke with a

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Your tone is extremely condescending. I chose the emoji because it is rude.

You could read my works. My latest essay that addresses Drexciya and UR and 
Moodymann and revolution is getting some pretty good reviews. 

I already shared the book in an earlier email. I’m arrogant, but not arrogant 
enough to post the link again. 

Also, I don’t care about 1 or 10 or 50 white people who are bigots, you’re all 
the same to me. I’m not gonna waste my energy debating with you about who you 
are. And I have to look like you. It sux. 

Denise




> On Nov 6, 2018, at 07:42, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but as it 
> happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which opened my 
> eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am sometimes 
> processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a neuro-typical 
> mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
> 
> The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel very 
> strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened to what 
> he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was ignorant. In 
> the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to appreciate the 
> sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the insult. I just didn't 
> see it that way, that the interpretation as a listener probably just suited 
> my own world view. I want to be clear that I'm not disappointed if that were 
> the case, and I regret writing that I would be disappointed. I am not 
> personally ashamed, but I see no reason to be disappointed. It's fair enough. 
> I just don't really know enough about it, leading to my ignorance.
> 
> It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise (though 
> it probably depends on the image being used in the particular email reader I 
> guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem happily provocative, 
> and I don't really object to that. I might go and read more of what you have 
> got to say about it. The music is something else in any case, but I accept 
> that you probably know a lot better the motivations behind the music, and 
> that you may be right.
> 
>> On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> It took you this long to think of a response. 
>> 
>>> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard what 
>>> James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, and that 
>>> Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later I'm writing 
>>> this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing on my mind 
>>> since reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish 
>>> families in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and 
>>> honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.
>>> 
>>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about the 
>>> practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by the 
>>> British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden. 
>>> Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in 
>>> England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice 
>>> an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in 
>>> Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In 
>>> short, it says more about the British involvement in the slave trade at the 
>>> time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly used, but they were 
>>> used in some arrangement which was directly involved with the slave trade. 
>>> I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in 
>>> Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all poor working class families. I 
>>> think we should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-washing 
>>> and as a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise for my own 
>>> ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly woke with a 
>>> strong feeling that you could be.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. Read 
>>>> my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, you’re 
>>>> confused by your rage. 
>>>> 
>>>> Denise
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Yes I suppose it did. I wasn't aware that I was thinking about it, but
as it happens I came across other information a couple of days ago which
opened my eyes, and I will admit when I was wrong. To be fair, I am
sometimes processing things well beyond a conversation.  I do not have a
neuro-typical mind, and often struggle to keep up with a conversation.
The feeling I woke up with this morning was that James Stinson did feel
very strongly about it, that I should know, and I hand't really listened
to what he said in the interview. I felt bad about it, because it was
ignorant. In the same manner I would defend other parties that fail to
appreciate the sensitive nature of it, as probably not aware of the
insult. I just didn't see it that way, that the interpretation as a
listener probably just suited my own world view. I want to be clear that
I'm not disappointed if that were the case, and I regret writing that I
would be disappointed. I am not personally ashamed, but I see no reason
to be disappointed. It's fair enough. I just don't really know enough
about it, leading to my ignorance.
It's funny the emoticon you have put there looks like happy surprise
(though it probably depends on the image being used in the particular
email reader I guess). It's hard to tell if it's meant to be. You seem
happily provocative, and I don't really object to that. I might go and
read more of what you have got to say about it. The music is something
else in any case, but I accept that you probably know a lot better the
motivations behind the music, and that you may be right.
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018, at 12:15 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It took you this long to think of a response. 
> 
> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
>> Denise
>> 
>> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard
>> what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about
>> racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20
>> minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know
>> this was playing on my mind since reading an article on the mostly
>> unknown involvement of Scottish families in the slave trade, and how
>> Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those families. It
>> makes you feel sick.>> 
>> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently
>> about the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of
>> Scotland by the British army for many many years following the battle
>> of Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by
>> land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke
>> of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British Parliament, he later became
>> the British ambassador in Paris. People demand that the statue be
>> removed, or at least moved. In short, it says more about the British
>> involvement in the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed.
>> Ports were not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement
>> which was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had
>> nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and my
>> ancestors there were all poor working class families. I think we
>> should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-washing and
>> as a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise for my own
>> ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly woke
>> with a strong feeling that you could be.>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended.
>>> Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet,
>>> you’re confused by your rage.>>> 
>>> Denise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
 Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I
 feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on
 >50% of the synonyms being a match. 
 Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to
 choose from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper
 moral principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of: 
 https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ
  
 
 
 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams
  wrote:> I think it's fine to disagree, even 
 to argue, but putting on my
> 313 List Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List
> Administrator Sceptre, let me say this:> 
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the
> line.  And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has
> strong opinions and you can argue about them all you want, but

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

It took you this long to think of a response. 

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 04:07, Steven Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Denise
> 
> I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard what 
> James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism, and that 
> Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later I'm writing 
> this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing on my mind since 
> reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of Scottish families in 
> the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those 
> families. It makes you feel sick.
> 
> I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about the 
> practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by the 
> British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden. Following 
> that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in England. There's 
> a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland, twice an MP in the British 
> Parliament, he later became the British ambassador in Paris. People demand 
> that the statue be removed, or at least moved. In short, it says more about 
> the British involvement in the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is 
> shamed. Ports were not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement 
> which was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had nothing 
> to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there 
> were all poor working class families. I think we should be taught this stuff 
> in school. That's all white-washing and as a result we are mostly ignorant. I 
> will apologise for my own ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I 
> certainly woke with a strong feeling that you could be.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve
> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. Read my 
>> original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, you’re confused 
>> by your rage. 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel 
>>> that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of the 
>>> synonyms being a match. 
>>> 
>>> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose 
>>> from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral principles” 
>>> is precisely what she’s guilty of:
>>> 
>>> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams  
>>> wrote:
>>> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List 
>>> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let 
>>> me say this:
>>> 
>>> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.  
>>> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions 
>>> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>>> 
>>> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> Agreed,
>>> 
>>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just 
>>> as much as actual racist views/comments. 
>>> 
>>> Next subject? 邏
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  wrote:
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
>>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>> 
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
>>> massive respect, nuff said 
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  wrote:
>>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
>>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't 
>>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
>>> ago?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  wrote:
>>> 
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36,ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
>>> > response in situations like this.
>>> > 
>>> 
>>> Proper LOL
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-11-06 Thread 313

Iona. Rome. Detroit.

On 2018-11-06 09:07, Steven Robertson wrote:

Denise

I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard
what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about
racism, and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20
minutes later I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know
this was playing on my mind since reading an article on the mostly
unknown involvement of Scottish families in the slave trade, and how
Glasgow and Edinburgh benefited, and honoured those families. It makes
you feel sick.

I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about
the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland
by the British army for many many years following the battle of
Culloden. Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by
land-owners in England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of
Sutherland, twice an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the
British ambassador in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed,
or at least moved. In short, it says more about the British
involvement in the slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed.
Ports were not directly used, but they were used in some arrangement
which was directly involved with the slave trade. I felt that we had
nothing to do with that ugly business. I was born in Glasgow, and my
ancestors there were all poor working class families. I think we
should be taught this stuff in school. That's all white-washing and as
a result we are mostly ignorant. I will apologise for my own
ignorance, and appreciate that you may be right. I certainly woke with
a strong feeling that you could be.

Regards

Steve

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:

I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are
offended. Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage.
Better yet, you’re confused by your rage.

Denise

On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi wrote:

Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I
feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on

50% of the synonyms being a match.

Could I have used another word? Sure, there are many synonyms to
choose from. I think “not being fair” and “not applying
proper moral principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams
wrote:

I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313
List Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator
Sceptre, let me say this:

I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the
line. And in this particular case, patently absurd. Denise has
strong opinions and you can argue about them all you want, but she
is not unscrupulous.

To quote Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it
means."

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi
wrote:

Agreed,

However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called
out just as much as actual racist views/comments.

Next subject? 邏

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com
wrote:

Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon
Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)

ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much
love, massive respect, nuff said

Jason

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams
wrote:

Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good.
He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka
MCs (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble
these days.

I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
years ago?

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust
wrote:

On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36,ja...@iridite.com wrote:

Where's Tom Cox when you need him? He's always got a calm and

measured response in situations like this.

Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Denise

I woke up this morning having had a dream where I hadn't really heard
what James Stinson was saying to Andrew Duke, that it was about racism,
and that Denise was right. The feeling was strong. Only 20 minutes later
I'm writing this and I'm still half asleep, but I know this was playing
on my mind since reading an article on the mostly unknown involvement of
Scottish families in the slave trade, and how Glasgow and Edinburgh
benefited, and honoured those families. It makes you feel sick.
I'm not well read on history, but I also have read more recently about
the practically unknown, hidden and widespread occupation of Scotland by
the British army for many many years following the battle of Culloden.
Following that were the highland clearances, ordered by land-owners in
England. There's a monument to one of them, the Duke of Sutherland,
twice an MP in the British Parliament, he later became the British
ambassador in Paris. People demand that the statue be removed, or at
least moved. In short, it says more about the British involvement in the
slave trade at the time, but Scotland is shamed. Ports were not directly
used, but they were used in some arrangement which was directly involved
with the slave trade. I felt that we had nothing to do with that ugly
business. I was born in Glasgow, and my ancestors there were all poor
working class families. I think we should be taught this stuff in
school. That's all white-washing and as a result we are mostly ignorant.
I will apologise for my own ignorance, and appreciate that you may be
right. I certainly woke with a strong feeling that you could be.
Regards

Steve

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018, at 7:23 PM, denisedalph...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended.
> Read my original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet,
> you’re confused by your rage.> 
> Denise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I
>> feel that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on
>> >50% of the synonyms being a match.>> 
>> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to
>> choose from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral
>> principles” is precisely what she’s guilty of:>> 
>> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ>>
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams
>>  wrote:>>> I think it's fine to disagree, even to 
>> argue, but putting on my 313
>>> List Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator
>>> Sceptre, let me say this:>>> 
>>> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the
>>> line.  And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has
>>> strong opinions and you can argue about them all you want, but she
>>> is not unscrupulous.>>> 
>>> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it
>>> means.">>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi 
>>> wrote: Agreed,

 However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called
 out just as much as actual racist views/comments. 
 Next subject? 邏

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com
  wrote:> Heh - you obviously weren't part of 
 our.discussion about Dixon
> Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)> 
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much
> love, massive respect, nuff said> 
> Jason
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams
>  wrote:>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 
> list when the getting was
>> good. He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with
>> the sucka MCs (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out
>> of trouble these days.>> 
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like
>> 15 years ago?>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust
>>  wrote:>>> 
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36,ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>>  > 
>>>  > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm
>>>  > and measured response in situations like this.>>>  > 
>>> 
>>>  Proper LOL

Possibly best Drexciya meme ever, and my own interest in participation

2018-10-25 Thread Steven Robertson

On Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/DarkScienceElectro/photos/a.1890014504355836/2102999539723997/

Must admit that I'm guilty of doing something the same, though my track titled 
Deep Sea Dweller shared with this list around 5 years (or more) ago was perhaps 
ahead of the current wave of copy-cats. I wasn't copying directly. I'm not that 
good at sound engineering. I do try to make my own music anyway, and take 
inspiration from many sources, primarily my own experiences. I'd really like to 
make electro music inspired by the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, but again, 
the idea of some-one else. My thoughts were more to try make electro that 
doesn't take itself too seriously.

Boards of Canada have an album titled Music Has The Right To Children. I do see 
that this is potentially controversial on this list, but art will always have 
its imitators and people who are participants. Many people who like a kind of 
music will wish to take part, and so it goes.

I'm fascinated by Detroit techno & electro, though I do think that while 
Drexciya is an incredible source of inspiration that it's sad the way that they 
are being recycled so desperately. I have recently done a mix for Tec-Troit 
that doesn't feature a single Drexciya track, yet it still strongly features 
the sound in the music of others. I have also included a lot of what I find 
inspiring, and a thread of music over 37 years that included Kraftwerk, 
Cybotron, Dynamix II, Aux 88 and more. No music exists in a vacuum. Aux 88 are 
back in the studio, and I keenly await new work, from which I will surely feel 
inspired too.

Taking inspiration from such a wholesome source, I don't feel guilty about, but 
I do worry more now I don't have a good grasp of the cultural differences. I 
think some of us fans can be misunderstood. Still, I don't think that should 
kill our interest in the music and participating, but I do wonder what approach 
- or none at all, is appropriate. After all, spinning tunes or making tracks, 
we're all participants. We're not trying to steal culture, but some music is 
just better than others. It's a matter of taste.

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I didn’t say that Black people would be, should be, or are offended. Read my 
original statements. I’m confused by your rage. Better yet, you’re confused by 
your rage. 

Denise





> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:33, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> 
> Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel that 
> it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of the 
> synonyms being a match. 
> 
> Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose 
> from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral principles” is 
> precisely what she’s guilty of:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams  
>> wrote:
>> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List 
>> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let me 
>> say this:
>> 
>> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.  
>> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions 
>> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>> 
>> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> Agreed,
>>> 
>>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just 
>>> as much as actual racist views/comments. 
>>> 
>>> Next subject? 邏
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  
 wrote:
 Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
 Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
 
 ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
 massive respect, nuff said 
 
 Jason
 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  
> wrote:
> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs 
> (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
> 
> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 
> years ago?
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>> > 
>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and 
>> > measured response in situations like this.
>> > 
>> 
>> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Even though English is my second language I just looked it up and I feel
that it was an accurate description of her intentions based on >50% of the
synonyms being a match.

Could I have used another word?  Sure, there are many synonyms to choose
from.  I think “not being fair” and “not applying proper moral principles”
is precisely what she’s guilty of:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS761US761=en-US=_KnQW9COIdrB0PEPjLmWgAM=false=unscrupulous=uns_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.35i39j0i131l2j46i20i264j0i131.3280.5506..6457...1.0..3.502.2111.0j9j1j5-1..01...5..0j0i71j0i10j46i39j0i131i20i264.72dD2dpqNVQ




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:19 AM kent williams 
wrote:

> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List
> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let
> me say this:
>
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.
> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions
> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>
> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
>> Agreed,
>>
>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out
>> just as much as actual racist views/comments.
>>
>> Next subject? 邏
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon
>>> Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>>
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>>> massive respect, nuff said
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good.
 He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs
 (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.

 I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
 years ago?

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
 wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> >
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
> measured response in situations like this.
> >
>
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Yeah ok, and based on popular opinion Lil’ Wayne is the best rapper.

Again, name one black person here that was offended by the video...still
waiting ;)

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:20 AM  wrote:

> Denise’s opinions are widely shared around the world and are based on
> research.
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:18, kent williams  wrote:
>
> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List
> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let
> me say this:
>
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.
> And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions
> and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
>
> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
>> Agreed,
>>
>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out
>> just as much as actual racist views/comments.
>>
>> Next subject? 邏
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon
>>> Avenue Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>>
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>>> massive respect, nuff said
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good.
 He's still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs
 (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.

 I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
 years ago?

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
 wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> >
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
> measured response in situations like this.
> >
>
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Denise’s opinions are widely shared around the world and are based on research. 



> On Oct 24, 2018, at 13:18, kent williams  wrote:
> 
> I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List 
> Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let me 
> say this:
> 
> I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.  And 
> in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions and you 
> can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.
> 
> To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:
>> Agreed,
>> 
>> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just 
>> as much as actual racist views/comments. 
>> 
>> Next subject? 邏
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  wrote:
>>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
>>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>> 
>>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
>>> massive respect, nuff said 
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
 On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  wrote:
 Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
 still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs 
 (aren't we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
 
 I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
 ago?
 
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  
> wrote:
> 
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> > 
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
> > response in situations like this.
> > 
> 
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread kent williams

I think it's fine to disagree, even to argue, but putting on my 313 List
Administrator Crown and picking up my 313 List Administrator Sceptre, let
me say this:

I think that calling other list members 'unscrupulous' is over the line.
And in this particular case, patently absurd.  Denise has strong opinions
and you can argue about them all you want, but she is not unscrupulous.

To quote Inigo Montoya,  "I do not think it means what you think it means."


On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:03 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:

> Agreed,
>
> However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just
> as much as actual racist views/comments.
>
> Next subject? 邏
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>
>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>> massive respect, nuff said
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>>> years ago?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
 >
 > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
 measured response in situations like this.
 >

 Proper LOL
>>>
>>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Eamonn Doyle

All still well here in Dublin Jason..   been too long !
E 



> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:58, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> 
> Heh, they're all coming out of the woodwork today!
> 
> Alrighty Eamonn?
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:55, Eamonn Doyle mailto:d...@d1.ie>> 
> wrote:
> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 
> <http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/>
> 
> Probably the most exhaustively researched site / blog about all things 
> Drexciya out there -  [caution: written by a white Irish guy] 
> 
> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 
> <http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eamonn Doyle
> 
> D1 Recordings, Dublin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:48, ja...@iridite.com <mailto:ja...@iridite.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>> 
>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
>> massive respect, nuff said 
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams > <mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't 
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>> 
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
>> ago?
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust > <mailto:mar...@dustscience.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com <mailto:ja...@iridite.com> 
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
>> > response in situations like this.
>> > 
>> 
>> Proper LOL
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Agreed,

However I do feel that unscrupulous race-baiting should be called out just
as much as actual racist views/comments.

Next subject? 邏



On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM ja...@iridite.com  wrote:

> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
> massive respect, nuff said
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>> years ago?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
>>> measured response in situations like this.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Proper LOL
>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread jwan allen

The record still bangs.

and as for me being mad, or offended.


hm how do I say this. First pardon my crassness:

When as a black man in america, has getting mad about how two allies
perceived a beef/misunderstanding about some black shit between themselves
ever done anything for me...ever.

When I see Denise or Joe in whatever capacity in the near or distant
future. I'll dap  em up.

The end.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:52 PM Aidan O'Doherty 
wrote:

> The only drama I want in my life is this:
>
> https://www.discogs.com/HM-Drama-EP/release/6784
>
>
>
> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 17:48 ja...@iridite.com,  wrote:
>
>> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
>> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>>
>> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
>> massive respect, nuff said
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>>> years ago?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
 >
 > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
 measured response in situations like this.
 >

 Proper LOL
>>>
>>>

-- 
Technoir Audio
Broken Planet

"dealing with your imperfect world"

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread ja...@iridite.com

Heh, they're all coming out of the woodwork today!

Alrighty Eamonn?

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:55, Eamonn Doyle  wrote:

> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/
>
> Probably the most exhaustively researched site / blog about all things
> Drexciya out there -  *[caution: written by a white Irish guy]*
>
> http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Eamonn Doyle
>
> D1 Recordings, Dublin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:48, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>
> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
> massive respect, nuff said
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>> years ago?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
>>> measured response in situations like this.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Proper LOL
>>
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Eamonn Doyle

http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 
<http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/>

Probably the most exhaustively researched site / blog about all things Drexciya 
out there -  [caution: written by a white Irish guy] 

http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/ 
<http://drexciyaresearchlab.blogspot.com/>






Eamonn Doyle

D1 Recordings, Dublin








> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:48, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> 
> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue 
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
> 
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love, 
> massive respect, nuff said 
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  <mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's 
> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't 
> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
> 
> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years 
> ago?
> 
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  <mailto:mar...@dustscience.com>> wrote:
> 
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com <mailto:ja...@iridite.com> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
> > response in situations like this.
> > 
> 
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Aidan O'Doherty

The only drama I want in my life is this:

https://www.discogs.com/HM-Drama-EP/release/6784



On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 17:48 ja...@iridite.com,  wrote:

> Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
> Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)
>
> ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
> massive respect, nuff said
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams 
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
>> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
>> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>>
>> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15
>> years ago?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and
>>> measured response in situations like this.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Proper LOL
>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread ja...@iridite.com

Heh - you obviously weren't part of our.discussion about Dixon Avenue
Basement Jams a year or so ago on Facebook :)

ANYWAYlet's move off the insta-drama and on to the music..much love,
massive respect, nuff said

Jason

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:42, kent williams  wrote:

> Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
> still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
> we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.
>
> I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years
> ago?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
>> response in situations like this.
>> >
>>
>> Proper LOL
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread kent williams

Tom Cox got the fuck out of the 313 list when the getting was good. He's
still as opinionated as ever, still doing battle with the sucka MCs (aren't
we all?), but I think he mostly stays out of trouble these days.

I'm trying to remember when he posted to 313 last. Something like 15 years
ago?

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM Martin Dust  wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> >
> > Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
> response in situations like this.
> >
>
> Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread jwan allen

I was glad I wasn't drinking coffee at that very moment.

My screen would've been covered.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:41 PM Joe Marougi  wrote:

> Bring on Tom! 藍
>
> Were you offended Jwan?  Kevin?  Anyone?
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:38 AM jwan allen  wrote:
>
>> HA!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM ja...@iridite.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
>>> response in situations like this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty <
>>> aidan.b.odohe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
>>>> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>>>>
>>>> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
>>>> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
>>>> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
>>>> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
>>>> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
>>>> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
>>>> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
>>>> not doing it.
>>>>
>>>> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if
>>>> they had actually considered this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Aidan
>>>>
>>>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how
>>>>> all this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white
>>>>> list! WTF
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
>>>>> racist views like you do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been
>>>>> trying to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the
>>>>> team with this approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be
>>>>> happy that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who
>>>>> Drexciya is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s
>>>>>> past contributions to this listserv.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Denise
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>>>>>> talking about?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive
>>>>>> white woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything
>>>>>> in a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> it was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a
>>>>>> problem with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to
>>>>>> lead the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they
>>>>>> target look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or
>>>>>> mine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released
>>>>>> and hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved 
>>>>>> artists
>&

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Bring on Tom! 藍

Were you offended Jwan?  Kevin?  Anyone?




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:38 AM jwan allen  wrote:

> HA!
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM ja...@iridite.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
>> response in situations like this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
>>> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>>>
>>> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
>>> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
>>> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
>>> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
>>> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
>>> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
>>> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
>>> not doing it.
>>>
>>> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if
>>> they had actually considered this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Aidan
>>>
>>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
>>>> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
>>>> WTF
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
>>>> racist views like you do.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been
>>>> trying to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the
>>>> team with this approach.
>>>>
>>>> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
>>>> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
>>>> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s
>>>>> past contributions to this listserv.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Denise
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>>>>> talking about?
>>>>>
>>>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive
>>>>> white woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>>>>
>>>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything
>>>>> in a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long 
>>>>> as
>>>>> it was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a
>>>>> problem with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>>>>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they 
>>>>> target
>>>>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released
>>>>> and hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists
>>>>> you have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>>>>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>>>>> white people (their audience).
>>>>>
>>>>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re
>>>>> trying to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t
>>>>> make it??
>>>>>
>>>&

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread jwan allen

HA!


On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 12:36 PM ja...@iridite.com 
wrote:

> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
> response in situations like this.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty 
> wrote:
>
>> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
>> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>>
>> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
>> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
>> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
>> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
>> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
>> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
>> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
>> not doing it.
>>
>> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if they
>> had actually considered this.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Aidan
>>
>> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>>
>>> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
>>> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
>>> WTF
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
>>> racist views like you do.
>>>
>>> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
>>> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
>>> with this approach.
>>>
>>> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
>>> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
>>> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s
>>>> past contributions to this listserv.
>>>>
>>>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Denise
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>>>> talking about?
>>>>
>>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>>>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>>>
>>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in
>>>> a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>>>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>>>> with it.
>>>>
>>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>>>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>>>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>>>
>>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>>>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>>>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>>>
>>>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>>>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>>>> white people (their audience).
>>>>
>>>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>>>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>>>> it??
>>>>
>>>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>>>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>>>
>>>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>>>> filet mignon.
>>>>
>>>> Pathetic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond <
>>>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I love Drexci

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Martin Dust



> On 24 Oct 2018, at 17:36, ja...@iridite.com wrote:
> 
> Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured 
> response in situations like this.
> 

Proper LOL

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread ja...@iridite.com

Where's Tom Cox when you need him?  He's always got a calm and measured
response in situations like this.



On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:18, Aidan O'Doherty 
wrote:

> Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
> we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac
>
> Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
> have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
> are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
> are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
> It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
> that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
> if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
> not doing it.
>
> I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if they
> had actually considered this.
>
> Thanks,
> Aidan
>
> On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:
>
>> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
>> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
>> WTF
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew
>> racist views like you do.
>>
>> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
>> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
>> with this approach.
>>
>> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
>> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
>> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
>>> contributions to this listserv.
>>>
>>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>>
>>>
>>> Denise
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>>> talking about?
>>>
>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>>
>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>>
>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in
>>> a certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>>
>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>>
>>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>>> white people (their audience).
>>>
>>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>>> it??
>>>
>>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>>
>>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>>> filet mignon.
>>>
>>> Pathetic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond <
>>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>>
>>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to te

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-24 Thread Aidan O'Doherty

Ladies and gentlemen, we've only got the band back together and already
we're squabbling worse than Fleetwood Mac

Denise, Moxie is RA's go-to-person to narrate their docs. Yes, it would
have been better if they had used a Detroit native and artist, but there
are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case, none of which I would say
are racist. The most obvious one is that they probably never thought of it.
It is a great idea and it's a pity - Stingray would have been perfect -
that it didn't happen, as it would add extra legitimacy to the project. And
if you mentioned it to RA heads, they would probably kick themselves for
not doing it.

I can actually ask someone if you want, who is an employee at RA, if they
had actually considered this.

Thanks,
Aidan

On Wed 24 Oct 2018, 16:59 ,  wrote:

> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
> WTF
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist
> views like you do.
>
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
> with this approach.
>
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
>> contributions to this listserv.
>>
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>> talking about?
>>
>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>
>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>
>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
>> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>> with it.
>>
>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>
>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>
>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>> white people (their audience).
>>
>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>> it??
>>
>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>
>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>> filet mignon.
>>
>> Pathetic.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>>> the colonizer.
>>>
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>>
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>>
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Name one who was fucking offended by the video??

Go ahead, I’ll wait...

Your ignorance is truly astonishing.

That video was dope, informative and above all RESPECTFUL.

I suppose my “way of thinking” hasn’t caught up to me yet because I’m still
tight with my D peeps.  I put out records with and stay at Wilhite’s place
when in town, Atkins would stay at my house back in the day when I’d bring
him out to LA and Kenny personally walked me into Soul Skate last Movement
weekend.

For some reason they don’t give a fuck about all this but YOU do.

The only thing that comes close is my man Mike Grant taking issue with
white European artists using black artwork and artist names on their
releases. I think we can all agree that sucks.



On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:59 AM  wrote:

> What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all
> this old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list!
> WTF
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist
> views like you do.
>
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying
> to point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team
> with this approach.
>
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
> that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
> is and maybe even bought a release or two.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
>> contributions to this listserv.
>>
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>
>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
>> talking about?
>>
>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>
>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>
>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
>> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
>> with it.
>>
>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead
>> the video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>>
>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>
>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
>> white people (their audience).
>>
>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying
>> to make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make
>> it??
>>
>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
>> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>>
>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
>> filet mignon.
>>
>> Pathetic.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>
>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>>> the colonizer.
>>>
>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>>
>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>>
>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>>
>>> Why didn't the

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

What about people of color who are on this list? You don’t know how all this 
old man thinking could be making anyone feel. It’s not a white list! WTF 

> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:58, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> 
> I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist 
> views like you do.  
> 
> Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying to 
> point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team with 
> this approach. 
> 
> Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy that 
> maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya is and 
> maybe even bought a release or two. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:
>> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past 
>> contributions to this listserv. 
>> 
>> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>> 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you 
>>> talking about?  
>>> 
>>> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white 
>>> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>>> 
>>> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>>> 
>>> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a 
>>> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it 
>>> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem 
>>> with it. 
>>> 
>>> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the 
>>> video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target 
>>> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine. 
>>> 
>>> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and 
>>> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you 
>>> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>>> 
>>> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make 
>>> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE 
>>> white people (their audience).  
>>> 
>>> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to 
>>> make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??
>>> 
>>> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview without 
>>> asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle. 
>>> 
>>> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t 
>>> filet mignon.  
>>> 
>>> Pathetic. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James 
>>>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that 
>>>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>>> 
>>>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the 
>>>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off 
>>>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of 
>>>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from 
>>>> the colonizer. 
>>>> 
>>>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all 
>>>> the way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>>>> 
>>>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>>>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>>>> 
>>>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>>>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>>>> 
>>>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>>>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Denise
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>>> ethnomusicologist
>>>> schoolcraftwax.work
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>>>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>>>> behind Drexciya.
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>>>> 
>>>>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>>>> 
>>>>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 218.833.2847

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I’m saying I’d rather continue to not post much at all than to spew racist
views like you do.

Apparently you’re not getting the hint from others that have been trying to
point this out to you more respectfully so I’ll take one for the team with
this approach.

Couldn’t care less what you think of me.  Grow the fuck up and be happy
that maybe at least a handful of “racist white folks” now know who Drexciya
is and maybe even bought a release or two.




On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:50 AM  wrote:

> Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past
> contributions to this listserv.
>
> Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
>
> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
> talking about?
>
> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
>
> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
>
> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
> was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
> with it.
>
> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the
> video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
> look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.
>
> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
>
> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
> white people (their audience).
>
> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to
> make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??
>
> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview
> without asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.
>
> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
> filet mignon.
>
> Pathetic.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
>> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
>> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>>
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
>> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
>> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
>> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
>> the colonizer.
>>
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
>> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>>
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>>
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>>
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>>
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>> behind Drexciya.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>>
>>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>>
>>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>
>>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>>
>>> 218.833.2847
>>>
>>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Pathetic is one word that comes to mind when I recall Joe Marougi’s past 
contributions to this listserv. 

Are you sad that I’m smart or triggered by truth?


Denise






> On Oct 24, 2018, at 11:32, Joe Marougi  wrote:
> 
> Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you talking 
> about?  
> 
> That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white 
> woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?
> 
> Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:
> 
> - RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a 
> certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it was 
> done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem with 
> it. 
> 
> - Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the 
> video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target look 
> and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine. 
> 
> - Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and 
> hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you 
> have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.
> 
> - You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make 
> something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE white 
> people (their audience).   
> 
> - For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to 
> make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??
> 
> The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview without 
> asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle. 
> 
> That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t filet 
> mignon.  
> 
> Pathetic. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond  
>> wrote:
>> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James Stinson 
>> still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that Andrew 
>> Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>> 
>> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the video, 
>> and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off putting. 
>> They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of brilliant, 
>> musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from the colonizer. 
>> 
>> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all the 
>> way super duper is all about race and racism. 
>> 
>> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the 
>> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot. 
>> 
>> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and 
>> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music. 
>> 
>> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John 
>> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>> ethnomusicologist
>> schoolcraftwax.work
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>>> behind Drexciya.
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>> 
>>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> 
>>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>> 
>>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>> 
>>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>> 
>>> 218.833.2847

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Wow Denise you must really be fun at parties.  What the hell are you
talking about?

That was an amazing video tribute to Drexciya and the “oppressive white
woman” was blowing them the whole time with mad props!?

Maybe you’re forgetting a few things:

- RA (or no one at all for that matter) are OBLIGATED to do anything in a
certain way.  Their money, their resources, their business. As long as it
was done with integrity and factual etc then there shouldn’t be a problem
with it.

- Apparenly they felt that the woman had the voice they wanted to lead the
video.  Umm, let’s see...maybe because the fucking AUDIENCE they target
look and sound like her??  And again, it’s their dime not yours or mine.

- Instead of being pumped that a documentary like this was released and
hopefully generated some more awareness for very well-deserved artists you
have to come in with your miserable take and try to shit on it.

- You’re the only racist here by saying that a white person can’t make
something about black people, especially when it’s geared towards MORE
white people (their audience).

- For fucks sake, this was a totally positive project and you’re trying to
make them out to be slave owners.  Are you jelly that you didn’t make it??

The only thing that sucks is if they used my man Andrew’s interview without
asking him, but that’s far from any sort of racial bias or angle.

That’s like someone starving being given food then complaining it isn’t
filet mignon.

Pathetic.



On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> I love Drexciya. And it's really cool to be able to hear from James
> Stinson still in 2018, thanks to Andrew Duke. And it's pretty amazing that
> Andrew Duke did that interview. It's a priceless artifact. I could go on!
>
> Resident Advisor didn't credit Andrew Duke when they first posted the
> video, and why is there a white woman's british voice narrating? It's off
> putting. They're using the voice of the colonizer to tell the story of
> brilliant, musical escape from enslavement and forced labor. Escape from
> the colonizer.
>
> Oh here goes Denise, making everything about race. But this actually all
> the way super duper is all about race and racism.
>
> And how much electronic music culture coverage is based in europe, the
> birthplace of imperialism and colonialism?  A lot.
>
> Music fans and writers should be more concerned about preserving and
> protecting and respecting the culture that made this music.
>
> Why didn't they ask Cornelius Harris to narrate? Why didn't they ask John
> Collins to narrate? That would be meaningful to artists and fans alike.
>
>
>
> Denise
>
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:47 AM Jeff Davis  wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure most of you saw this already but I thought this short
>> video did a good job encapsulating and contextualizing the concepts
>> behind Drexciya.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgG-QiChiA8
>>
>> includes a snippet from an Andrew Duke interview as well!!
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Jeffrey J Davis
>>
>> j...@jeffreyjdavis.com
>>
>> www.jeffreyjdavis.com
>>
>> 218.833.2847
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread denisedalphond

tter 
>>>> future together. 
>>>> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ~David
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement 
>>>>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the 
>>>>> instagram account of Underground Resistance. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting 
>>>>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are 
>>>>> full of people of color. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the 
>>>>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using 
>>>>> Mike Bank's words to support your opinions. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge. 
>>>>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original 
>>>>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can 
>>>>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't 
>>>>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too. 
>>>>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You 
>>>>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant 
>>>>> scene in the city of Detroit right now. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You're blind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.
>>>>> ethnomusicologist
>>>>> schoolcraftwax.work
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA 
>>>>>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent 
>>>>>> introduction to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever 
>>>>>> heard of Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know 
>>>>>> who they are, trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life 
>>>>>> for sure, and old Cybotron records, but really people only know the 
>>>>>> first wave well. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most 
>>>>>> is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that 
>>>>>> the music has not been able to play the positive role in the local 
>>>>>> Detroit community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the 
>>>>>> fundamental vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the 
>>>>>> community could prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. 
>>>>>> Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront 
>>>>>> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal 
>>>>>> power of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit 
>>>>>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is 
>>>>>> that nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and 
>>>>>> this is nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out 
>>>>>> about it in the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the 
>>>>>> midwest a year ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, 
>>>>>> has ever heard of Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to 
>>>>>> people what it is. There is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no 
>>>>>> longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. 
>>>>>> Furthermore, the US is a huge country. Detroit

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I agree, that's why I mentioned "sustainable."

I wasn't trying to criticize UR, but just looking at the facts that markets
change and you have to make enough so that folks can eat.
And I have to solve this problem too, because I'm a musician myself in the
current market.

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> There is a basic misunderstanding here.  Getting paid enough to
> cover the bills and have a reasonable life is important.
>
> Making as much money as possible is not the purpose.
>
> Detroit techno is all about retaining that difference.
>
> Twenty years ago, Sony Japan issued its crappy unauthorized and
> uncompensated remake of Jaguar.  We all understood what that
> represented, and UR made the right choice.
>
> Detroit techno is far more than just UR (and it's also true that
> "the D in Detroit stands for Drama").  But also remember, leadership
> is shown by action, not just words.
>
> fh
>
>
> -
> >Fred,
> >
> >I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
> >I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
> >I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
> >You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
> >Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but
> changes
> >in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
> >The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
> >This is just reality.
> >
> >Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
> >exists at all.
> >But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.
> >
> >Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
> >and the community around music.
> >My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make
> kick
> >ass music.
> >I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
> >I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
> >finding ways to do shit that work, now.
> >And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
> >I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
> >community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
> >succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.
> >
> >Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
> >musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
> >forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
> >as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
> >interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
> >three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
> >participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
> >and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
> >I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
> >keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound
> Signature
> >album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians
> recently
> >and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.
> >
> >I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
> >a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
> >And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???
> >
> >~David
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte 
> wrote:
> >
> >> For those who haven't seen it:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
> >>
> >> fh
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

gt;>>>
>>>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>>>
>>>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>>>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>>>> full of people of color.
>>>>
>>>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>>>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>>>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>>>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>>>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>>>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>>>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>>>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>>>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>>>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>>>
>>>> You're blind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>>> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>>>>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent 
>>>>> introduction
>>>>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>>>>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>>>>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>>>>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most
>>>>> is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>>>>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>>>>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>>>>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community 
>>>>> could
>>>>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>>>>
>>>>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to
>>>>> confront racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the
>>>>> universal power of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>>>>>
>>>>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
>>>>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
>>>>> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
>>>>> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
>>>>> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
>>>>> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
>>>>> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
>>>>> is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>>>>>
>>>>> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they
>>>>> no longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre.
>>>>> Furthermore, the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one
>>>>> regional style in a gigantic country full of little regional musical
>>>>> styles. Although it was vastly important to the development of European
>>>>> dance music, the fact is that the US does not support musicians, and all
>>>>> musicians in the US struggle, even before you consider race. The average
>>>>> income for a full time musician in the US is $20,000.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together
>>>>> to build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
>>>>> solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
&

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Fred Heutte

There is a basic misunderstanding here.  Getting paid enough to
cover the bills and have a reasonable life is important.

Making as much money as possible is not the purpose.

Detroit techno is all about retaining that difference.

Twenty years ago, Sony Japan issued its crappy unauthorized and
uncompensated remake of Jaguar.  We all understood what that
represented, and UR made the right choice.

Detroit techno is far more than just UR (and it's also true that 
"the D in Detroit stands for Drama").  But also remember, leadership
is shown by action, not just words.

fh


-
>Fred,
>
>I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
>I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
>I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
>You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
>Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but changes
>in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
>The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
>This is just reality.
>
>Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
>exists at all.
>But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.
>
>Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
>and the community around music.
>My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make kick
>ass music.
>I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
>I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
>finding ways to do shit that work, now.
>And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
>I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
>community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
>succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.
>
>Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
>musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
>forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
>as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
>interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
>three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
>participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
>and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
>I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
>keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound Signature
>album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians recently
>and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.
>
>I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
>a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
>And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???
>
>~David
>
>
>
>On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte  wrote:
>
>> For those who haven't seen it:
>>
>>
>> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>>
>> fh
>>
>>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Fred,

I don't scorn UR they are my heroes.
I just WANT THEM TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
I'm being realistic about how well the business model is doing.
You can't solve a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.
Making money is a problem for musicians right now--not just UR, but changes
in music as a whole might be hitting their business model hard.
The move from streaming to owning hurts some underground business models.
This is just reality.

Likewise, yes, you are right, it's amazing that an email list from 1994
exists at all.
But be honest, the list today is nothing like what it was in its prime.

Anyway, you are missing the point. As a musician, I care about the music
and the community around music.
My job is to act to help the community grow in positive ways, and make kick
ass music.
I'm trying to do that within the reality of 2018, and streaming.
I have no interest in CRITIQUING shit out of the past. I only care about
finding ways to do shit that work, now.
And that includes Submerge being able to sell records.
I want them to succeed and I want to develop resources to help all local
community initiatives and cooperatives and grassroots cultural efforts to
succeed. But that requires strategy and actual new ideas.

Traditions are built over generations, but something I learned as a jazz
musician, is that each generation is responsible for moving the music
forward, and each individual. Not only that, we inherent a responsibility
as caretakers when we become participants within a tradition. I'm
interested in how I can get better at doing my job as a participant in
three living musical traditions, jazz, classical, and techno. You
participate in the tradition, FYI, by working with people in the tradition
and gaining their blessing, not just be declaring yourself to be a member.
I played with Detroit drummer Djallo Djakate's group, and recorded
keyboards with Alton Miller (it's supposed to come out on a Sound Signature
album eventually), so I'm actively involved with Detroit musicians recently
and have more projects in the works. So I have a direct stake in all this.

I'm starting a record label, so I need to know, for instance, if I put out
a record by a talented Detroit cat, how can I help him sell more records?
And if people won't buy records, how can I get my artists paid???

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:34 AM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> For those who haven't seen it:
>
>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>
> fh
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Hell yeah Mike Rubin.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM Fred Heutte  wrote:

> For those who haven't seen it:
>
>
> http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space
>
> fh
>
>

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

I've never lived in Detroit, unfortunately. I didn't want to gentrify.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.
>
> It's for education. So people don't get confused.
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers 
> wrote:
>
>> Denise,
>>
>> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
>> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>>
>> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists
>> in order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human
>> body.
>> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
>> screw them.
>>
>> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
>> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>>
>> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
>> making money! I'm talking about this:
>> http://submerge.com/
>>
>> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
>> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
>> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
>> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
>> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
>> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
>> hometown recognition.
>>
>> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
>> part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
>> States.
>> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including
>> the Detroit techno community.
>> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
>> musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>>
>> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
>> advocate.
>> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a
>> better future together.
>> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>>
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond <
>> denisedalph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
>>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
>>> account of Underground Resistance.
>>>
>>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>>
>>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>>> full of people of color.
>>>
>>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>>
>>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>>
>>> You're blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>>> *ethnomusicologist*
>>> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>>>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>>>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>>>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>>>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>>>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>>>
>>&g

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Mike Banks owns a museum. It's called Exhibit 3000.

It's for education. So people don't get confused.


*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:39 PM David A. Powers  wrote:

> Denise,
>
> I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
> played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.
>
> First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in
> order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
> I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
> screw them.
>
> Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
> DIFFERENT THINGS.
>
> You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and
> making money! I'm talking about this:
> http://submerge.com/
>
> Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of
> cultural recognition by the city of Detroit?
> How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
> UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
> You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
> All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
> hometown recognition.
>
> Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
> part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
> States.
> This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the
> Detroit techno community.
> What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
> musicians do to move the music forward in the present.
>
> Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
> advocate.
> What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better
> future together.
> Building a better future is what techno is all about.
>
>
> ~David
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
> wrote:
>
>> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement
>> is completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
>> account of Underground Resistance.
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>>
>> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
>> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
>> full of people of color.
>>
>> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
>> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
>> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>>
>> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
>> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
>> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
>> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
>> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
>> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
>> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
>> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>>
>> You're blind.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
>> *ethnomusicologist*
>> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>>
>>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most
>>> is that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
>>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>>
>>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
>>> racial issues directly

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Denise,

I lived in the city, I talk to my friends in the city every week, and I
played a gig there recently. I know exactly what's going on.

First of all, Red Bull, really? They literally pimp out art and artists in
order to sell shitty corporate drugs that are terrible for the human body.
I'm glad that artists get paid even if it's by Red Bull, but seriously,
screw them.

Second, it's quite obvious that we are talking about literally TWO
DIFFERENT THINGS.

You are talking about museums. I'm talking about selling records and making
money! I'm talking about this:
http://submerge.com/

Do you honestly think that black artists in the US can live off of cultural
recognition by the city of Detroit?
How many Detroit techno records are selling in the Detroit area?
UR has trouble paying the bills. Musicians need to make money.
You can't make a living as a Detroit techno artist IN DETROIT.
All the artists you mentioned got notoriety overseas before they got
hometown recognition.

Musicians need to work together to carry on the work that UR started, and
part of this work is trying to find a way to sell records in the United
States.
This is hard work, and it involves all musicians and artists including the
Detroit techno community.
What people write about the music second hand is not so important as what
musicians do to move the music forward in the present.

Motown, UR, and Chicago's AACM are all examples of the kind of ethos I
advocate.
What matters is what we musicians do to help each other and build a better
future together.
Building a better future is what techno is all about.

~David

On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:21 AM Denise Dalphond 
wrote:

> Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement is
> completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
> account of Underground Resistance.
>
> https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en
>
> It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
> parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
> full of people of color.
>
> People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the
> true fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
> Bank's words to support your opinions.
>
> Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge.
> Carl Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original
> headquarters. You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can
> garner in their own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't
> only open its doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too.
> Submerge had an exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You
> don't know what current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant
> scene in the city of Detroit right now.
>
> You're blind.
>
>
>
>
> *Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
> *ethnomusicologist*
> *schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  wrote:
>
>> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
>> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
>> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
>> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
>> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
>> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>>
>> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
>> that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
>> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
>> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
>> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
>> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>>
>> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
>> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
>> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>>
>> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
>> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
>> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
>> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
>> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
>> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
>> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. Ther

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Fred Heutte

For those who haven't seen it:

http://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/06/drexciya-infinite-journey-to-inner-space

fh

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

2018-10-19 Thread Kevin Kennedy

David, without the rest of the world, where would Detroit artists escape to?
I understand what is at the crux of your argument... But I would still
consider that the vitriol comes from the telling of a local story that can
and has been told not only by others, but can be told with a deeper
understanding of the subject.

That's like a biography about your own life story being told with Google
search results and the author never speaks with your friends or family.

I refuse to say that it's OK.  But if we're going to look at RA for a high
standard of academic level journalism...I think we aren't going to find
that.

I am not sure any longer how much I feel about this, I don't speak for
anyone but myself and any reading this should please take a moment to
consider that piece of information.

The truth of the dead is that other people will write your narrative.

And sadly the most odd thing is that there are no 'new' ideas under the
sun... But some enterprising young journalists will always be able to find
an opportunity to rework an old story and make people think of it as a new
one.  "everything is a remix..." isn't just a documentary.

I have no credibility in academia and I barely have credibility in the
world of dance music, though I am rather affiliated with the wonderful
community of Detroit.

However, maybe we should find a way to use what has been another rise in
the activity of this forum for something positive?






On Oct 19, 2018 8:47 AM, "David A. Powers"  wrote:

The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.

Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI

The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.

The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.

In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
musician in the US is $20,000.

By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
planet.

The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and building
sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term, that is
resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy descent as
fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due to the
shifting climate.

I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people are losing their minds
right now engaging in useless debates, but

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater

Detroiters of color definitely give a shit about techno. Your statement is
completely wrong and off base. All you have to do is visit the instagram
account of Underground Resistance.

https://www.instagram.com/undergroundresistance313/?hl=en

It is filled with Black and Brown faces. In Detroit. Often, DJs hosting
parties all over Detroit are Black and Brown people, and the crowds are
full of people of color.

People are being duped with old ideas about clan mentality and who the true
fans are. Think what you want, but be careful what you say using Mike
Bank's words to support your opinions.

Moodymann's Prince museum is directly across the street from Submerge. Carl
Craig's studio is nearby. A mile west is Motown's original headquarters.
You have no idea what kind of support these geniuses can garner in their
own town now. Red Bull has a space in Detroit. It doesn't only open its
doors to white people. Black and Brown people visit too. Submerge had an
exhibit in the RBMA space about Detroit house music. You don't know what
current Detroit techno even looks like. It's a vibrant scene in the city of
Detroit right now.

You're blind.




*Denise Dalphond, Ph.D.*
*ethnomusicologist*
*schoolcraftwax.work <http://schoolcraftwax.work>*


On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:47 AM David A. Powers  wrote:

> The irony of this situation is that in the big picture, even if the RA
> piece was produced in an unethical manner, it's still a decent introduction
> to Drexciya for many people, and in the US nobody has ever heard of
> Drexciya. Hell, I doubt many people in Detroit actually know who they are,
> trust me, I lived there. People know the song Good Life for sure, and old
> Cybotron records, but really people only know the first wave well.
>
> Mad Mike has been clear in his interviews, in that what hurts him most is
> that the black community in the US has not embraced techno and that the
> music has not been able to play the positive role in the local Detroit
> community that he hoped over the long term. I understand the fundamental
> vision of UR as one of building local infrastructure so the community could
> prosper. There is a strong self-help and DIY ethos. Reference:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T0E6iLWhI
>
> The approach to race that I see in UR is to be proud of it, to confront
> racial issues directly, but combined with a belief in the universal power
> of sound to heal and to build bridges between people.
>
> The real reason you don't have videos coming out of the US and Detroit
> about Drexciya with a narrator who is actually from the community, is that
> nobody in Detroit actual gives a shit about techno in the US, and this is
> nothing new, and so there's literally zero reason to freak out about it in
> the year 2018. I live in Austin Tx now after leaving the midwest a year
> ago. Almost nobody I have spoken with, black or white, has ever heard of
> Detroit techno here. I have to try to explain to people what it is. There
> is slightly more familiarity with Chicago House.
>
> In most of the US, nobody has ever heard of "Detroit Techno" and they no
> longer have any idea what the term might signify as a genre. Furthermore,
> the US is a huge country. Detroit techno is simply one regional style in a
> gigantic country full of little regional musical styles. Although it was
> vastly important to the development of European dance music, the fact is
> that the US does not support musicians, and all musicians in the US
> struggle, even before you consider race. The average income for a full time
> musician in the US is $20,000.
>
> By the way, this is why it is vital for all musicians to work together to
> build our own infrastructure and work together to create sustainable
> solutions. As inspiring as UR is, it has not turned out to be a long term
> sustainable business model. Part of the problem really does seem to be the
> lack of local support of the music, because to run a sustainable local
> business you don't want all your customers to live on the other side of the
> planet.
>
> The real hard work of the future is in getting our hands dirty and
> building sustainable infrastructure from the ground up for the long term,
> that is resilient enough to withstand the next 100 years of slow energy
> descent as fossil fuels run out and we experience further instability due
> to the shifting climate.
>
> I want to offer a strong plea to all musicians and producers on this list
> to work together for the long term to create this kind of sustainable
> infrastructure, and actively work to build the community of musicians,
> especially if you are in the US. And anyone has any great ideas, I'd love
> to hear them. Nobody is going to create our future for us, if we don't
> build it, there won't be a future... A lot of people ar

Re: Why Drexciya Took Detroit Electro Underwater