On May 23, 2011, at 18:56, Steve Simon wrote:
> xfig + transfig - feels a bit like a patch on a patch and, being
> modern unix code would (no doubt) include configure hell...
geoff had a version of xfig running on 3ed years ago. i can try to
dig it up if you want to go that route. i d
you've got a very good shot at running p9p on it - p9p is
already known to run on some linux ppc platform. with
any luck, it should just work.
native plan9 will be some work. john points to the Blue
Gene kernel (which you can get somewhere, but as i
understand it isn't quite a "stock" plan9 kernel
has anyone gotten this working? i've got the
3rd-party tun/tap kexts installed (i believe; the
devices show up in /dev), but 9vx is unhappy.
my config file contains:
ether0=type=tap dev=/dev/tap0
9vx complains with:
9vx panic: fd 5 read -1
(when running as superuser, which i be
Edward Tufte's sparklines[0] are a wonderful way of
representing a wide variety of data in word-like spaces. You
can't use them in text-only places, though, leading some
folks to come up (very rough) approximations using unicode
characters[1]. They're a poor shadow of the real thing, but
can still
for the last few weeks (at least), i've been unable to really use the
9p access to the wiki. it connects, the Wiki client brings things up and
can brows around, but the channel gets hung up on in only a few
seconds (seems like ~15, although i've not timed it accurately). i've
tried this from multip
On May 12, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Steve Simon wrote:
> I put the OSX launchd ritual on the wiki a couple of years ago.
and here it is:
http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/9pfs.plist/index.html
a
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i use u9fs regularly; i install it on any unix machine i'm required
to care about. these days that's only os x boxes, and the source
in the distribution builds without issue for me there. i can dig up
the configuration if that'd be helpful, but it's for launchd (apple's
inetd replacement). i believ
In addition to the tree Andrey noted, the general
answer is simply to download the normal distribution
image and use that. The effect is the same as using
the tree Andrey pointed to and updating, but you'll
save yourself time and work by just grabbing the
current image.
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/
I have a VM that I created under Parallels 5 and am currently running under 6.
It's several months old.
> 1. ps2intellimouse: scrolling works if you're scrolling down, but if you make
> the scroll up gesture, the mouse skitters off to the right and really doesn't
> scroll back up. Anyone seen t
On May 2, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Jack Norton wrote:
> I'd claim that most sites these days lend well to being translated
> as NNTP news feeds. Most sites are people 'posting' crap and
> thoughts on said crap at regular intervals.
maybe by number, but that's not really a useful metric. this model
woul
On Apr 30, 2011, at 12:05 AM, errno wrote:
> But APE has c++ (old version of gcc though).
APE has no c++. there is a very old version of gcc floating around on
sources that can, with some effort, sometimes be made to compile things.
> I expect that a webkit (or gecko) port would need to rely on
On Apr 29, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>
> On 27 Apr 2011, at 6:47 pm, Anthony Sorace wrote:
>>
>> • Unification of X11 code and wsys device, by Jesús Galán López [1]
> [...]
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/re
On Apr 28, 2011, at 3:29 PM, dexen deVries wrote:
> the current hacker-unfriendlines of linux (a.k.a. `user
> friendlines') is the price paid for vide driver support.
perhaps in some vague philosophical terms, but certainly
that isn't any sort of actual engineering trade-off. you also
seem to be
Folks:
The official selection of project for our participation in GSoC is now
complete. We ended up selecting two proposals. They are:
• Unification of X11 code and wsys device, by Jesús Galán López [1]
• Replace html generation in wikifs(4), by Mikhail Kuryshev [2]
Folks signed
Folks:
Student applications close in just under 4 hours, at 19:00 UTC[0].
That's still plenty of time to get a good proposal in, and we could still use
more. If you're on the fence or have been putting it off, consider this your
kick to get moving. To apply, go to Plan 9's home page in Mela
On Apr 7, 2011, at 11:45, Paul Lalonde wrote:
> Fortunately you can build a case-insensitive file system on a mac, within a
> file.
Just in case this wasn't obvious, you can do this with the real, on-disk
filesystem, too. There's no "upgrading" an existing FS, so this is most
practical when ge
On Apr 4, 2011, at 17:35, smi...@zenzebra.mv.com wrote:
> All combined (forking read/test/echo, forking awk/sed/dd, parsing
> /mnt/acme/%d/events, etc.)... this, I think, is why languages like Perl
> came into existence and became so popular. I could definitely write an
> Acme event parser in Per
On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Jacob Todd wrote:
> There's 'Document formatting and Typesetting on the Unix System, Vol. I &II'
> by Narain Gehani and Steven Lally. They're available on alibris at a cheap
> price. I unfortunately haven't had time to read them yet. I know there's also
> more liste
On Mar 16, 2011, at 17:30, Iruatã Souza wrote:
> adiff may be a good place to look at too.
A while ago I also wrote cdiff, which you put in the tag line of an
adiff window and it'll plumb successive change pairs, bringing up
the relevant sections in each file. It is not well tested, but there's
n
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Folks:
Our application to Google Summer of Code 2011 is now in. Google
begins reviewing organization applications on Monday, and is expected
to announce the accepted organizations on the 18th, a week from
today. We have until 23:00 UTC to corre
// I can't rememberif he actually called them an
// abomination, but at the same time, onewas left
// with the feeling that he might have.
Geoff's explanation to me a long time ago wasn't quite as emotional, but was
quite helpful for understanding what was actually going on:
"They're not 'keep a
> Any plans to participate this year?
Yes; I'm working on it. We've got a handful of great mentors lined up
already, and I'm working on the application and wiki docs. Expect a
more formal announcement later today.
In the mean time, if you'd like to follow along with the Plan 9 GSoC
goodness, plea
I hadn't thought of erik's answer. I usually end up doing something
like "cat `{ls | grep -v hola}" or the like. I find that easier to read,
unless you're really restricted to literally using just rc for some reason.
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No big mystery: the Bell Labs folks are more
conservative about folding in certain kinds
of changes than Erik is.
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Just to address the unanswered Limbo questions:
The only Limbo compilers extant compile to a portable bytecode for the Dis
virtual machine. The only first-class Dis implementation is built into Inferno.
Dis can be either interpreted or just-in-time compiled. The historical claim
was a that the J
I've not looked closely at push, but I assume it uses the same /rc/lib/rcmain
as, well, rc. See that file for the trick: it sets the prompt to that if your
running a $O.out, so you know.
anth
I know it's come up several times, but has anyone actually
gotten anywhere with a PAM module which authenticates
against factotum (preferable) or does p9any/p9sk1 itself?
Any stage of progress would be welcome.
After running something like the following on the server:
: root; auth/rsagen -b 2048 -t 'service=tls owner=*' >/tmp/keykey
: root; auth/rsa2x509 'C=US CN=9srv.net' /tmp/key | auth/pemencode
CERTIFICATE > /tmp/cert
: root; cat /tmp/key > /mnt/factotum/ctl
: root; au
I use vac -a to back up several unix systems to my main Plan 9 file server.
Currently I'm doing two nightly via cron and two sporadically (laptops); there
have been more of each in the past. In addition to storing the scores locally,
I wrote a little rc script that lives in /rc/bin/service.auth
On Nov 14, 2010, at 1:26, Russ Cox wrote:
[a bunch of very reasonable stuff]
I clearly didn't write that well because Russ just disagreed with me by saying
exactly what I was trying to say: the approaches ask and answer different
questions. My main interest was to point out that the mail Gary
On Nov 13, 2010, at 21:17, Gary V. Vaughan wrote:
> People like to beat on GNU Libtool, and in some cases that criticism is
> not undeserved... but in my experience, many critics of the tool come
> from a perspective of building on a single architecture. If you have
> never tried to build and lin
Anyone considering things like that should also be familiar with the "Styx on a
Brick" work, where the Vita Nuova guys stuck a Styx interface on a Lego
mindstorm controller brick. The interface layering from the raw serial
interface up through something which you wrote times to (and the clickabl
> the other problem with both volume and audioctl will come with multiple
> streams. in1 and out1 might work, but it starts to look ugly. usbaudio
> appears to ignore multiple inputs or outputs.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by "streams" in this context. multiple
inputs or outputs? if so, m
I've misplaced my USB audio kit, but I'm reasonably sure I read from /dev/audio
(and a cursory reading of the source suggests that ought to work). Is there any
reason to do otherwise? I don't know what audioin is intended to buy. Given
that it's never been in audio(3), I'm not sure it's importan
They're different things. monitor=vesa is "special" in that it tells vga(8) to
use the VESA bios calls; xga is just another monitor definition and will try to
go through a card-specific driver. All other things being equal, non-vesa stuff
will generally yield better performance. Some of the driv
I'm more interested in what this means for Coraid? If Oracle buckles
under then zfs ports to Linux et al. is doomed.
It's unlikely Oracle will buckle, although it's theoretically possible
they'll lose. That would uphold NetApp's patents and potentially make
the use of ZFS illegal without a
Ah, right. I meant you don't get to change which license you got the
software under. It wasn't my intent to imply one couldn't relicense
differently. Thanks for clarifying.
On May 26, 2010, at 8:42, Charles Forsyth wrote:
You don't get to change the license
``3. REQUIREMENTS
A. Distrib
Does this mean that for all intents and purposes, Plan9 can be
considered EPL (even if licence notices say otherwise)?
The short answer is "no". You don't get to change the license, even if
you or some other body decide the terms are equivelent in some way.
You're given the software under t
anyone ever used one of the minipci
versions of the orinoco cards?
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for the mac the documentation says ctrl+click is equal to right click
and option+click is middle click. It works fine using them with acme,
but I cant seem to make a new window in rio?
for right click, you want command+click, not control+click. works here,
and is the same in 9vx. You can fake a
I suspect the reaction is based on being forced to use it when you'd
rather not, like many residential ISPs require. It's particularly
upsetting when the CPE doesn't even have a globally routable address.
How much is many?
Um, some? I don't have any sort of global count. I've had 7 broadband
ron said:
Oh, and, it is likely that when we issue that many or more reads, we
want a flow controlled network. Just guessing :-)
You'd want one, sure. But (unless I'm missing something) it doesn't
seem that increasing the number of outstanding messages would
*require* it (your performance
Both fossil and kfs seem like the wrong tool for your job. In
addition to the robustness questions, they (especially fossil)
include features you're not going to get anything out of in
your environment. If you use something like paqfs(4) or
sacfs(4) (not sure which is more appropriate) you'll get
On Apr 12, 2010, at 22:53, EBo wrote:
On Apr 12, 2010, at 11:23, hiro wrote:
and what is src/9vx/a/devcap.c ?
As far as my system and (as far as I can tell) the
Mercurial repository: fictional. Something you'd
like to share with the class?
Hunting on the we it looks like Ron Cox is the got
On Apr 12, 2010, at 11:23, hiro wrote:
and what is src/9vx/a/devcap.c ?
As far as my system and (as far as I can tell) the
Mercurial repository: fictional. Something you'd
like to share with the class?
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On a "real" plan 9 system, you create the user at the file server
console, then log in as that user and run newuser. That first step
creates /usr/$user. The analogue in 9vx is at least 'mkdir /usr/
$user', and (less likely) possibly creating the actual user in the
unix world, depending on yo
I really don't understand why people don't line contrib and want to
put stuff in /opt or $home/bin.
That's a false dichotiomy. I quite like replica/contrib, but I also
think there's some value to /opt packages. They answer two different
questions.
Plan9 is susposed to be all about underst
You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
I don't know what you're replying to, but your "simpler" version
starts with what ron suggested and for multi-user setups recreates
the /usr/local model. Or was this to the earlier man subdir question?
No recursive binds are need
Unix has two camps for approaching this problem /usr/local and /opt.
While they're almost never followed well on modern unix systems, the
idea is basically a global local overlay vs. a per-package overlay.
The /usr/local approach takes all packages not part of the base
system and creates
You should also add:
http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/source/browse/trunk/src/cmd/cat.s
Which returns 1062 lines of HTML+Javascript, completely unreadable
in Abaco.
not to spoil the irony, but that works here. it drops indentation, but
that
hardly qualifies as "completely unreadable".
On my system, /mail/box is mode 775. This matches what's on sources.
So... how is the mail -c call in newuser supposed to work for normal
(ie: not in group sys) users?
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We're in.
In the next few days, we need to polish our materials for students,
flesh out our ideas list[1], and confirm our mentors. If you're
interested in following progress with Plan 9's GSoC activities, please
join the plan9-gsoc google group[2]; if you're interested in becoming
a ment
Erik asked:
does anyone with a 2e licence know if plumber used to accept rules
like this; that is shell script fragments?
It did not - because the plumber did not exist in 2e or earlier. Like
a handful of other things, it was originally drafted for Inferno and
then backported (with improv
Folks:
The application period for organizations wishing to participate in
GSoC is now open. I started our application today; all is going well.
Most of it is very straight-forward, based on what we did last year,
what worked well, and so on. There's a few things I'd like to get
community
Lyndon said:
You can also grab /n/sources/contrib/lyndon/contribindex which
generates a pretty-printed listing of people's contrib/*/INDEX files.
There's been several of these. Note that I run one to update the
contrib index on the wiki more or less daily. That version includes
both thing
We have fgb's contrib, and before that just the INDEX files in /
contrib on sources. Neither is a perfect solution, but I don't think
the problem here would be addressed by the Labs providing some new
resource. Between the above and the wiki, there's plenty of
opportunity for folks to make p
think we want to make slightly higher demands of
applicants. I'll be posting a revision for discussion shortly.
Anthony Sorace
Strand 1
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Google's Summer of Code is on for 2010. We had a very good year in
2009, and I intend to submit an application for Plan 9 (and related
projects/technologies) again. I've created a page on our wiki for info
and ideas for our participation:
http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/gso
days, though, I spend most of my interactive time in 9vx. Is anyone
working on getting the multi-touch stuff working in 9vx?
Anthony Sorace
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size of the cache in the vacfsopen call?
Anthony Sorace
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It happens that I bought Parallels 5 two or three days ago. Upon
upgrading my
Plan 9 VM from Parallels 3 (skipped a version), it stopped working.
I've not had
time to dig in, nor to try a fresh install. The Plan 9 version on
there had not been
kept up to date, so Geoff's info is likely more
Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
Anyone remember or still use the Depraz red mouse? I thought I had
heard
someone figured out how to convert them to USB...
I've got two of the USBified ones, one attached to my cpu server and
one moving
between an old iBook and a few other Plan 9 machines. i stil
Rog said:
that's why breadth-first might be useful, by putting
shallower files earlier in the search results - i often
do grep foo *.[ch] */*.[ch] */*/*.[ch] to achieve
a similar result, but you have to guess the depth that way.
for what it's worth, dan's walk.c has a -d option for limiting se
On Dec 25, 2009, at 04:57, erik quanstrom wrote:
Java sometimes does turn up trumps where C code struggles on machines
which were recently considered powerful. Other examples would be web
what?
from the rest of his post, i gather that the claim isn't that Java vs.
C code of equivalent
qual
I'm interested in the changes, although I'm mostly using 9vx rather
than drawterm. I tried to get ktrans running again a few months ago
and couldn't make it work, regardless of trigger. Is there an updated
version of that available somewhere, as well?
For anyone (considering) attending FOSDEM in February, there's a new "Alt-OS"
devroom - essentially an "anything but linux" spot. The room was requested by,
and will be organized by, some of the folks who were in the "!Linux" meeting at
the GSoC Mentor's Summit. I'm in that group, but won't be atte
there's a group called Rosetta that came out of another meeting at the GSoC
mentor's summit for non-linux OS users (good meeting, although not quite as
amusing as the "Troll Like a Pro" session). the folks at the meeting all thought
their biggest problem was lack of driver support, and the Rosetta
i think the easiest way to do this is to keep "|expander" in
your acme tag, highlight (b1 sweep) the _TMACRO you'd
like to expand, and b2 click |expander.
pushing things through plumber means expander won't
have the window context. you might be able to mount
acme's exported namespace and figure it
erik wrote:
// how to troll like a pro!
see, i was paying attention!
bill wrote:
// ...a questionable example...
if you have a lab of terminals but only one or two have a working
sound card and speakers, it can make good sense. first time i saw
that was a demo for something unrelated; we were
where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:20, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost always seems a
>> better deal than using USB.
>
> coraid agrees. except for the "almost" part.
>
> - erik
>
>
the most notable differences are that (by default) the network stack
is very stripped down and the file system goes through a special
pass-through driver (#Z) rather than fossil or whatnot. there are
patches to change both behaviors (use a tun device to allocate a
virtual interface to 9vx; use raw
For my company, I generate contracts using troff on Plan 9. The
contracts all contain my digital signature - that is, a postscript
image of my signature - like so:
.BP /usr/a/Pictures/sigs/signature.ps .5 "" "" "" l
I generate postscript for these documents like so:
troff -mm -mpictures foo.mm |
// Since the purpose of ape is to emulate the environment
// configure is expected to run in...
false premise. the purpose of ape is to provide an ANSI/POSIX environment.
it's purpose is as much for outbound porting as inbound, and maintaining the
actual target is more important in that direction.
along that line, you might check out steve's
mkmk (contrib/install steve/mkmk). i've only
used it lightly, but it often generates a useful
starting point for turning a chunk of files into
a mkfile.
i arrive around 9am on wednesday. anyone have a ride
arranged and have an extra seat?
I'd like to check this out, but the server doesn't want to
talk to me. Is there a copy available elsewhere?
as i understand it, "proper" android stuff is meant to be in their
java flavor. you can load C programs, but i think only with the
dev tools. what's more, the system doesn't have the full library
we're used to on unix-like systems. i'd be fairly surprised if our
stuff (inferno, p9p, or drawterm) ha
that's a whole different problem, though.
your first problem was whether japanese would have some sort of
new or unique problem with an alphabet given the absence of certain
syllables (like shi) from the language. the answer is, of course, no:
the language would fall into either of the two extant
lots of romance languages have exactly that characteristic, though
(maybe other languages, too). see C and G in italian. "ci" is simply
pronounced "correctly" as "chi".
i know very little about existing chinese input methods, so this is more a
question for my own understanding than a suggestion, but:
there is ktrans for Plan 9; the latest version i'm aware of is described here:
http://basalt.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp/plan9/s39.html
although that page is a bit
Akshat said:
// Considering that Plan 9 has only two inherent languages...
I'm curious which two you meant. Most of the code running on my Plan 9
installations is written in either C or rc. For code I've written running on it,
Limbo is about as high. And of course there's a little assembly down d
i've not used matt's sql module itself (i should check it out) so i
can't comment on his implementation, but... SQL is really ugly. it's
not hard to construct something that provides the same functionality
in a much more palatable form. aesthetics aside, if you're dealing
with a database-heavy app,
that wiki writeup isn't really right. importing /net isn't NAT in any
sort of technical sense; rather, it's what plan 9 does instead.
there's no "translation" of ports or addresses, it's more
(conceptually) like a straight multiplexing.
not directly. on my server running cwfs, i have this in /cfg//cpustart:
srv -e 'cwfs -ca tcp!*!54321 -m /sys/lib/arkive/devmap w4' arkivecons
which creates /srv/arkivecons. i can then 'con /srv/arkivecons' to get at the
console in more or less the same way as fscons.
Less of a "here's my experience" than a summary of earlier
conversations with various people, but still perhaps relevant or
helpful:
0) Venti contains neither authentication nor authorization. If you
care, you are advised to stick it on a trusted network, or listen only
on loopback.
1) The venti
yes, having this score makes your files available to anyone with
access to your venti. i'd suggest keeping it off the public network,
assuming you have things on there you care about.
James Tomaschke wrote:
// ...you limit freedom by placing a simple interface into kernelspace.
are you serious?
you need to read fossilcons(8) for how to turn them on.
the man page makes clear (i think) that there are two types of
snapshots, archival and not. i think the default behavior is
explained, too (see the description of snaptime).
Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
// This is easily demonstrable with rhythm games (such as Rock
// Band or Guitar Hero) where latency induced by a home audio
// system (mine at home is about 15ms induced by my receiver
// and 5ms using the Xbox digital output) can have a very
// significant negative impact o
you need venti for dumps, but not snapshots. do "9fs snap" and then
see if there's anything in /n/snap. these are ephemeral, not archival.
i don't believe fossil ships with these turned on by default, so
you're likely SOL, sorry.
assuming my memory from my last install is correct, and it's not
in
i certainly can't speak for the original designers, but i'd say
aesthetics, mostly. putting bin before the arch type allows you to
simply have fewer things in your home directory, which makes looking
around easier. you can't really do that in the root. well, you could,
binding, for example, /bin/38
Tim Newsham wrote:
// Yah, this format doesnt come up that often.. perhaps its not
// worth the effort, but then again the ability to switch a device's
// encoding isnt very much work either... About as hard as
// changing the sampling rate or turning stereo on and off...
i'd argue that the prim
i think russ has it exactly right: keep the kernel driver as simple as
is practical, do whatever else you want in user space. for /dev/audio,
i wouldn't suggest anything beyond plan 9's audio(3) as is. i'd
suggest some cleanup of the surround (kill /dev/volume, rationalize
/dev/audioctl), but the f
Lawrence E. Bakst wrote:
// I only want to point out that OS X has had an option for case sensitive
// versions of the HFS+ file system for some time now.
// ...It seems to work and I don't think there is much downside to using it,
// although I am not sure I would format my system partition that
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:45, ron minnich wrote:
> I wonder how many of the companies involved still exist :-)
i suspect ron knows all this already; this is intended for anyone else
who comes along and thinks this might make getting 2e CDs out easier
(instead of harder). again, this is all from m
the CD includes sources to the kernel on platforms which required NDAs
to get the information to do the port. part of the NDA, as i
understand it, required the sorts of restrictions on redistribution in
the commercial license. people have tried to get at least some bits of
that opened up, and at le
the floppies were available without the book+cd; at least as late as
1996 i remember downloading them from at&t's web site. they
represented a fairly minimal system. i don't remember specifically,
but it seems likely that there were license terms specific to the
download.
Ethan wrote:
// Oh God, not the everyday examples == proof argument, PLEASE.
Er, what? everyday examples are a perfectly good existence proof,
which is all they're being used for here. You seem to be after a more
"universal correctness" sort of proof, for which they're entirely
inappropriate, but
that was for 2nd edition. it's now horribly outdated.
it is also only available under an older, for-pay license that i'm not
sure it's actually possible to buy any more.
you don't actually want that set unless you're doing archeology.
this is silly. the philosophy has been explained. several people have
given lots of "real world" usage where it holds up just fine. i'd go
as far as to say the vast majority of plan9 installations are in such
environments.
but regardless, correcting what may be a whole in your environment is
easy;
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