On 06/10/2012 12:01 PM, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
I like the or MIME part. ;)
i forgot to include a reference: http://mail.9fans.net/listinfo/9fans
On above said page, it would be nice to have the following as
active/click-able links:
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/
On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 13:03:16 -0600
andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:
Don't submit messages containing flames or MIME. Content should be
technical.
I'm looking at all of you here!
I like the or MIME part. ;)
--
This is obviously some strange usage of the
word simple that
I like the or MIME part. ;)
i forgot to include a reference: http://mail.9fans.net/listinfo/9fans
Seems like after all there is a dependency hell for windows, too. It's
a slower, but more thorough kind of cancer. Trying to download an
older version of opera (opera 9 works) with internet explorer 5 is
impossible because of web standards. The windows update web site
creates a redirection loop.
On Friday, June 8, 2012, erik quanstrom wrote:
In fact, the people who will eat the lunch of these people wrangling
unstructured data, are the ones that figure out how to structure the data
in a way that it's not a problem anymore.
i don't know what you're saying here.
And that is
on content-sniffing. I assume Abaco either does the same or allows the
HTML to override the HTTP. Based on previous experience I expect Safari
also gets it right.
abaco gets it right on accident. webfs isn't capable of dealing
with the http charset so it's simply ignored. this causes a
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 14:05:06 -0700
David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:44 AM, erik quanstrom
quans...@labs.coraid.comwrote:
i haven't seen any evidence that strongly typed files are a good idea.
but maybe
others have?
I can tell you that the Big Data
On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 02:00:37 -0400
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
regardless of what one thinks of the standard, the header charset
takes precidence! see
http://www.webstandards.org/learn/articles/askw3c/dec2002/
it sucks, but it's better to follow standards than to invent one's
How much more so then should we oppose
standards which benefit nobody while requiring a lot of work to no
purpose?
You're getting lost. The MIME standard (RFC 1341, June 1992) is what
you started criticising and you're overlooking (a) that a phenomenal
amount of effort went into establishing
Regardless of how unjust a law is, it must be obeyed, for it is the
Law! Right? Hah! I'm one of those people who believe citizens have a
duty to oppose unjust laws. How much more so then should we oppose
standards which benefit nobody while requiring a lot of work to no
purpose?
standards
standards aren't laws. there's no moral component at all.
Politics (insufficient resources) can put moral components into
anything. But most technical standard organisations do aim to avoid
making the type of short sighted judgements that lead to resource
depletion. Then the market comes
On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 04:29:15PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote:
(a) that a phenomenal
amount of effort went into establishing that standard;
Then it belongs on someone's refrigerator, next to a participation
award. Bad decisions aren't less bad just because a lot of people
worked hard to make
Are you claiming it is good through tenure, which is obviously a
fallacy, or are you actually calling this catastrophe of a standard
great?
You're not offering a comparison, so, yes, I'm calling it good. So,
apparently, do innumerable users, again, maybe for want of a better
product. Twenty
On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 16:29:15 +0200
Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
How much more so then should we oppose
standards which benefit nobody while requiring a lot of work to no
purpose?
You're getting lost. The MIME standard (RFC 1341, June 1992) is what
you started criticising
MIME is a shitty workaround (badly) designed to cram non-text data into
a text-based protocol. Instead of using proper transfer protocols to
transfer files, some morons decided to shove binary data into text-based
messaging. When the web crowd decided they, too, would like to shove
unlikely
On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 16:51:37 +0200
Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
standards aren't laws. there's no moral component at all.
Politics (insufficient resources) can put moral components into
anything. But most technical standard organisations do aim to avoid
making the type of short
Kurt H Maier: Are you claiming it is good through tenure, which is
obviously a fallacy, or are you actually calling this catastrophe of a
standard great?
Lucio De Re: You're not offering a comparison, so, yes, I'm calling
it good. So, apparently, do innumerable users, again, maybe for
want of a
On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 05:53:42PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote:
And you see no contradiction that the seemingly obvious alternatives
just simply haven't gained any ground at all?
Since you seem to be the sort of idiot who can't differentiate technical
quality from distribution volume, I'll
On Sat Jun 9 12:32:20 EDT 2012, kh...@intma.in wrote:
On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 05:53:42PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote:
And you see no contradiction that the seemingly obvious alternatives
just simply haven't gained any ground at all?
Since you seem to be the sort of idiot who can't
On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 12:52:17 -0400
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
On Sat Jun 9 12:32:20 EDT 2012, kh...@intma.in wrote:
On Sat, Jun 09, 2012 at 05:53:42PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote:
And you see no contradiction that the seemingly obvious alternatives
just simply haven't
I respect all you guy's senseless babbling as I'm being a lot more
disrespectful than anyone here (currently installing windows 98). Go
on.
On Jun 9, 2012 2:11 PM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote:
I respect all you guy's senseless babbling as I'm being a lot more
disrespectful than anyone here (currently installing windows 98). Go
on.
I would shit on you for this, but I'm an OpenVMS user.
--
Veety
On Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:42:11 -0400
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
I'll admit I don't have anything quite as convenient as that for an
immediate undo. I'd put a cp in the shell loop and for undo: for(f in
*.orig) {mv $f `{echo $f | sed 's/.orig$//'}}. Or use a scm, e.g. git
I see your point, I guess I can accept that. I still object to the idea
of a whole other suite of programs just to run within the editor, but I
guess it's immaterial whether the window system is part of the editor
or the editor is part of the window system.
right!
i'd also add that a program
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 6:58 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote:
I see your point, I guess I can accept that. I still object to the idea
of a whole other suite of programs just to run within the editor, but I
guess it's immaterial whether the window system is part of the editor
Yes, which makes one wonder about type systems in programming languages and
if they're any better than documented conventions of I/O. (i think they may
not be, but they serve some documentation purposes all their own)
I think type systems have their use but do not help much at the borders
On Friday, June 8, 2012, Gorka Guardiola wrote:
Yes, which makes one wonder about type systems in programming languages
and
if they're any better than documented conventions of I/O. (i think they
may
not be, but they serve some documentation purposes all their own)
I think type
Yes, which makes one wonder about type systems in programming languages and
if they're any better than documented conventions of I/O. (i think they
may not be, but they serve some documentation purposes all their own)
the unix model is that files are typeless. or at most the linker refuses
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 11:44:35 -0400
erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:
i haven't seen any evidence that strongly typed files are a good idea. but
maybe
others have?
I certainly haven't, and I wish the HTTP standards idiots would adopt
the unix position in this case; the
In fact, the people who will eat the lunch of these people wrangling
unstructured data, are the ones that figure out how to structure the data
in a way that it's not a problem anymore.
i don't know what you're saying here.
- erik
I'll admit I don't have anything quite as convenient as that for an
immediate undo. I'd put a cp in the shell loop and for undo: for(f in
*.orig) {mv $f `{echo $f | sed 's/.orig$//'}}. Or use a scm, e.g. git
reset --hard HEAD.
this is significantly more complicated for the user, and it
and if we were purists we'd
ditch rio and run acme directly on the screen
I tried this for a while when I was first starting to use plan 9.
It didn't work out because essentials like page and mothra didn't
fit in acme.
On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:33:19 +0100
Connor Lane Smith c...@lubutu.com wrote:
Hey,
On 3 June 2012 02:12, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote:
On a related note, what is the point of multi-file editors? I can see
their use with a primitive OS, but given ed and a shell with loops...
On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:53:21 +0100
Connor Lane Smith c...@lubutu.com wrote:
On 3 June 2012 02:40, Stephen Wiley swwi...@gmail.com wrote:
One thing that I can see is that the 40 billion windows you open are all
grouped together and don't get in your way when using other apps. (One of
the
On 3 June 2012 02:12, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote:
On a related note, what is the point of multi-file editors? I can see
their use with a primitive OS, but given ed and a shell with loops...
well I'd like to see what remains easier in a multi-file editor.
Don't
On Sun, 3 Jun 2012 23:15:51 -0400
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
i think you're ignoring the fact that any X command can be undone
by a single u command. this isn't just window dressing. (sorry.)
as you note, i can repeat {X ...; oops; u} as many times as necessary
then save
On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 23:40:11 +0300
Antonio Barrones antonio@gmail.com wrote:
On May 31, 10:01 pm, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:55:57PM -0400, Burton Samograd wrote:
so edit/win, edit/edit, edit/dir might all be little programs that do
part of what acme
On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:32:41 -0400
Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:
On May 31, 2012, at 0:10, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
This proper English is not the language of the English people...
The English have no respect for their language, and will not teach their
children to speak it. They
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 01:31:04 BST Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm
wrote:
Yeah, it's almost a successor to Lisp machines (except it's a not a
good lisp, I'm told). I call it a desktop environment, myself. :) Acme
has been called Plan 9's emacs and I can't entirely disagree.
Eric
On Thu, 31 May 2012 14:49:38 -0400
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
Some people would love warp-to-location for Undo/Redo, some I'm sure
would hate it. Some people can't stand that up/down arrow keys scroll
the page rather than move the cursor (I'm not one). Acme might benefit
On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 17:43:57 -0700
Bakul Shah ba...@bitblocks.com wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 01:31:04 BST Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm
wrote:
Yeah, it's almost a successor to Lisp machines (except it's a not a
good lisp, I'm told). I call it a desktop environment, myself. :)
Hey,
On 3 June 2012 02:12, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote:
On a related note, what is the point of multi-file editors? I can see
their use with a primitive OS, but given ed and a shell with loops...
well I'd like to see what remains easier in a multi-file editor.
Don't sam's X
On Jun 2, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
...
On a related note, what is the point of multi-file editors? I can see
their use with a primitive OS, but given ed and a shell with loops...
well I'd like to see what remains easier in a multi-file editor.
--
This is obviously
On Sat Jun 2 21:35:19 EDT 2012, c...@lubutu.com wrote:
Hey,
On 3 June 2012 02:12, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote:
On a related note, what is the point of multi-file editors? I can see
their use with a primitive OS, but given ed and a shell with loops...
well I'd like to
On Sat Jun 2 20:45:23 EDT 2012, ba...@bitblocks.com wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 01:31:04 BST Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm
wrote:
Yeah, it's almost a successor to Lisp machines (except it's a not a
good lisp, I'm told). I call it a desktop environment, myself. :) Acme
has been
On 3 June 2012 02:40, Stephen Wiley swwi...@gmail.com wrote:
One thing that I can see is that the 40 billion windows you open are all
grouped together and don't get in your way when using other apps. (One of
the things I like about osx is that it does that with all the apps)
Though I guess
shut up and back to work. nothing to see here.
On 3 June 2012 11:53, Connor Lane Smith c...@lubutu.com wrote:
On 3 June 2012 02:40, Stephen Wiley swwi...@gmail.com wrote:
One thing that I can see is that the 40 billion windows you open are all
grouped together and don't get in your way when
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:18 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:
Some people would love warp-to-location for Undo/Redo, some I'm sure
would hate it. Some people can't stand that up/down arrow keys scroll
the page rather than move the cursor (I'm not one). Acme might benefit
from a config
On May 31, 10:01 pm, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:55:57PM -0400, Burton Samograd wrote:
so edit/win, edit/edit, edit/dir might all be little programs that do
part of what acme currently does.
Sounds a bit like emacs :)
emacs plan9 manpage is one of my
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 05:10:01AM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
This proper English is not the language of the English
people, and I find it remarkable that there is so much so-called
improperness in common between Britain and the US after 200 years of
separation and 100 years of
On May 31, 2012, at 0:10, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
This proper English is not the language of the English people...
The English have no respect for their language, and will not teach their
children to speak it. They spell it so abominably that no man can teach
himself what it sounds like. It
But to speak or to write a meaningful english, is far more difficult.
And I would say that it is easier to start english than to achieve a
correct level in english and I doubt that a non native english speaker
can achieve it---because there are no written rules but a context that
only a
Aww, leave sam alone, he served us well for (so) many
years, zerox is part of his baroque charm.
if where to change any text, which i wouldn't, it would
be snarf, which always draws comments from the uninitiated.
the one real change that i think would be worthwhile
would be a warp-to-location
Yes.
Also, if anyone wants a different behavior, it´s easy to change
to source so it fits your preferences.
On May 31, 2012, at 8:05 PM, steve wrote:
Aww, leave sam alone, he served us well for (so) many
years, zerox is part of his baroque charm.
if where to change any text, which i
Some people would love warp-to-location for Undo/Redo, some I'm sure
would hate it. Some people can't stand that up/down arrow keys scroll
the page rather than move the cursor (I'm not one). Acme might benefit
from a config file in $home/lib/acme.conf or something. Yeah yeah, [...]
i think
so edit/win, edit/edit, edit/dir might all be little programs that do part of
what acme currently does.
Sounds a bit like emacs :)
--
Burton Samograd
This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is strictly
confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:00:35PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
- my wife proves you wrong. (don't worry. you're not alone.) nobody
guesses that english is not her native tongue.
But she lives in this U.S. context. I'm speaking about off the ground
speakers.
- the rules are in proper
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:55:57PM -0400, Burton Samograd wrote:
so edit/win, edit/edit, edit/dir might all be little programs that do part
of what acme currently does.
Sounds a bit like emacs :)
emacs plan9 manpage is one of my preferred. I do like the laconic:
BUGS
Yes.
and I use
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
(Trolling unintentional)
The misspelling of Xerox in Acme has bugged me for a long time. I
want to suggest that we change it to Clone. Votes?
++L
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...
All bikesheds need to be repainted eventually.
++L
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:28:47PM -0700, John Floren wrote:
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...
But we don't agree on the colour...
--
Thierry Laronde tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com
http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:28:47PM -0700, John Floren wrote:
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...
But we don't agree on the colour...
That's the thing about the bike shed: choosing a colour must not delay
construction. But once it's built and it needs a new coat of
This is a bit silly. Zerox here (in the context of acme/Plan 9) has a
well-understood meaning. Obvious etymology aside, it's essentially a made-up
word here. It's beneficial that it isn't a false cognate to some action, since
the behavior is not obvious a priori (in the normal case of xeroxing
it isn't a false cognate to some action, since the behavior is not obvious a
priori (in the normal case of xeroxing or cloning, there's no expectation
that the copies stay in sync, as they do here).
I vote for Dup.
Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger).
Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger).
dop. dop! make it stop!
i can't not
will not
have a dop!
- erik
On 30 May 2012 11:25, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger).
dop. dop! make it stop!
i can't not
will not
have a dop!
- erik
copy?
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Calvin Morrison mutanttur...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 May 2012 11:25, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger).
dop. dop! make it stop!
i can't not
will not
have a dop!
- erik
copy?
That surely won't be confused with
copy?
That surely won't be confused with the Snarf functionality at all
And on second thought, maybe Dup is a bit too much like Dump ...
On 30 May 2012 12:17, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Calvin Morrison mutanttur...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 30 May 2012 11:25, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger).
dop. dop! make it stop!
i can't not
will not
have
I'd prefer clown, because it reminds me of clone. ;)
couldn't resist.
On May 30, 2012, at 6:20 PM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote:
copy?
That surely won't be confused with the Snarf functionality at all
And on second thought, maybe Dup is a bit too much like Dump ...
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 12:23:02PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Snarf is a dumb name. It isn't well named.
This is because you are probably an english native speaker searching
sensibility behind sounds or pictures (written text) that seem
familiar to you. For the others---like me---the
Snarf is not the same as Zerox. I suggest Xerox. Let them sue.
On May 30, 2012, at 9:17 AM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Calvin Morrison mutanttur...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 30 May 2012 11:25, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
Or Dop (short for
alles doofköppe hier?
translation: this thread is so dope.
ZARDOZ!!!
--
cinap
On Wed, 30 May 2012 16:20:47 BST Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote:
it isn't a false cognate to some action, since the behavior is not obvi=
ous a priori (in the normal case of xeroxing or cloning, there's no exp=
ectation that the copies stay in sync, as they do here).
It just opens
I'd leave it alone.
This.
-sl
This is a bit silly. Zerox here (in the context of acme/Plan 9) has a
well-understood meaning. Obvious etymology aside, it's essentially a
made-up word here. It's beneficial that it isn't a false cognate to
some action, since the behavior is not obvious a priori (in the
normal case of
On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:42:21 +0200
tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 12:23:02PM -0400, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Snarf is a dumb name. It isn't well named.
This is because you are probably an english native speaker searching
sensibility behind sounds or pictures (written
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