On 3/20/07, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is one way you can form a coherent, working system from a congeries
of
random agents: put them in a marketplace. This has a fairly rigorous
discipline of its own and most of them will not survive... and of course
the
system has
--- Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
rooftop8000 wrote:
Hi, I've been thinking for a bit about how a big collaboration AI project
could work. I browsed the archives and i see you guys have similar
ideas
I'd love to see someone build a system that is capable of adding any
YKY On 3/20/07, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is one way you can form a coherent, working system from a
congeries
YKY of
random agents: put them in a marketplace. This has a fairly
rigorous discipline of its own and most of them will not
survive... and of course
YKY the
This response will cover points raised by several previous posts in
the emergence/agenda/structure of mind threads, by Goertzel, Hall,
Wallace, etc.
What makes an intelligence general, to the extent that is possible,
is that it does the right thing on new tasks or new situations, which
it hadn't
This 'emergence' discussion is already going the same way as most such
discussions: everyone talking about different meanings for the word,
and even in the case of those who are talking about the standard
meaning, the talk is only serving to completely confuse the issue.
Ben, you refer to a
Richard
But where you (I believe) start to confuse the picture is by selecting
an example of an 'emergent' system that is a special case. Hopfield
nets are barely complex enough to have any emergent properties: in
fact, they were pretty much engineered so that they could be analysed
Eric Baum wrote:
Hayek doesn't directly scale from random start
to an AGI architecture in as much as the
learning is too slow. But the same is true of any other means of
EC or learning that doesn't start with some huge head start.
It seems entirely reasonable to merge a Hayek like architecture
I wonder if Jef, or anyone else here, knows what has happened to
Project Halo, the Digital Aristotle. The project website
(http://www.projecthalo.com/) hasn't been updated for three years.
Pei
On 3/16/07, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, Novamente LLC submitted a proposal to this
Ben Goertzel wrote:
Richard
But where you (I believe) start to confuse the picture is by selecting
an example of an 'emergent' system that is a special case. Hopfield
nets are barely complex enough to have any emergent properties: in
fact, they were pretty much engineered so that they
Hi,
P.S. About Daniel Amit:
I haven't read the book, but are you saying he demonstrates coherent,
*meaningful* symbol processing as the transition of the dynamics
through the lobes of an ultracomplex set of attractor lobes? Like,
reasoning with the symbols, or something?
And that he
- Original Message -
From: rooftop8000
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] My proposal for an AGI agenda
Hi, I've been thinking for a bit about how a big collaboration AI project
could work. I browsed the archives and i see you guys have
For people who might be interested in influencing some of the
features of this system, I would appreciate them looking at my
documentation at www.rccconsulting.com/hal.htm
http://www.rccconsulting.com/hal.htm Although my system isn't quite
ready for alpha distribution yet, I expect that it
I have seen multiple times where others have lamented an adequate platform
that can be used for
creating an AGI. One that has full introspection, speed, power tools, self
programmability and
extreme flexibility. I came to this conclusion about 3 years ago and have
been creating that
On 3/20/07, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wonder if Jef, or anyone else here, knows what has happened to
Project Halo, the Digital Aristotle. The project website
(http://www.projecthalo.com/) hasn't been updated for three years.
I think Danny Hillis became consumed with FreeBasing. ;-)
FreeBase should be a really wonderful resource for early-stage AGIs
to learn from...
-- Ben
I think Danny Hillis became consumed with FreeBasing. ;-)
See http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge205.html for a recent
report on his newly announced open database project.
- Jef
-
This
On 3/20/07, Eric Baum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is the problem with Wallace's complaints. You actually want the
machine [to do] something unpredicted, namely the right thing in
unpredicted circumstances. Its true that its hard and expensive to
engineer/find an underlying compact
As has been pointed out in this thread (I believe by Goertzel and Hall)
Minsky's approach in Society of Mind et seq of adding large numbers
of systems then begs the question: how will these things ever work
together, and why should the system generalize?
How does adding auditory modules
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 06:34:25PM +, Russell Wallace wrote:
wouldn't exist unless it generalized to new experiences. So while
its hard to engineer this, which might be called emergence,
It's not emergence, but rather failing gracefully and doing the
right thing.
you will
Russell On 3/20/07, Eric Baum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is the problem with Wallace's complaints. You actually want
the machine [to do] something unpredicted, namely the right thing
in unpredicted circumstances. Its true that its hard and expensive
to engineer/find an underlying compact
If you were introducing a radically new programming paradigm for AGI, I
would be more interested Not that I think this is necessary to
achieve AGI, but I would find it more intellectually stimulating ;-)
If you care to detail what kind of problem or structure you find hard to
deal with
David Clark wrote:
If you were introducing a radically new programming paradigm for AGI, I
would be more interested Not that I think this is necessary to
achieve AGI, but I would find it more intellectually stimulating ;-)
If you care to detail what kind of problem or structure you
As has been pointed out in this thread (I believe by Goertzel and
Hall) Minsky's approach in Society of Mind et seq of adding large
numbers of systems then begs the question: how will these things
ever work together, and why should the system generalize?
rooftop How does adding auditory
- Original Message -
From: rooftop8000 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] My proposal for an AGI agenda
I think we should somehow allow people to use all the program languages
they want.
My proposal certainly allows that.
I think that the concept that many of you are struggling to voice is
Credit attribution is a really hard problem in AGI. Market
economies solve that problem (with various difficulties, but . . . . :-)
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:29:06 -0400, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, **anything** can be dealt with in C++, it's just a matter of how
awkward it is.
nod :-)
I don't want to become deeply involved in these language wars, because I
cannot say honestly that my very limited
rooftop8000 wrote:
...
I think we should somehow allow people to use all the program languages they
want.
That somehow is the big problem. Most approaches to dealing with it
are...lamentable.
...
You can use closed modules if you have meta-information on
how to use them and what they do.
Yes, David, some good ideas.
We are well into our AGI prototype using c# and are quite happy with it.
However, fully integrated reflection, DB support, etc. would be nice.
I designed and implemented a very comprehensive language (called One) in the
'80s and used it to code a large commercial
Ben, I didn't know you were a Ruby fan...
After working in C# with Peter I'd say that's is a pretty good choice.
Sort of like Java but you can get closer to the metal where needed
quite easily.
For my project we are using Ruby and C. Almost all the code can
be in high level Ruby which is very
Getting people to work in a new language will be very hard indeed. No
language can be everything to everyone and we all have a lot invested in our
pet language. I didn't create this language to make any money on it
directly, so, success for me doesn't have to be too many people using the
On 3/20/07, David Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My proposal certainly allows that. If sockets and some form of standard
English is used to communicate between the different systems, then any
language should work. If you want to directly use major chunks of code that
others have written
Shane Legg wrote:
Ben, I didn't know you were a Ruby fan...
Cassio has gotten me into Ruby ... but in Novamente it's used only
for prototyping, the real system is C++
For some non-AGI consulting projects we have also used Ruby.
Ruby runs slowly, but, other than that, it's a great language.
KIF would be a highly practical lingua franca
Lojban would work fine too
I agree that using English to interface btw modules of an AGI system
seems suboptimal...
I am glad that the different components of my brain don't need to
communicate using English ;-_)
Ben
Jey Kottalam wrote:
On
On 3/20/07, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Was Hillis involved with Halo? I only saw him listed as one of the
inspirations.
My mistake, I was working from memory and made a false association...
Here's all I can find as to the latest status:
Three teams, Team SRI International, Team
On 3/20/07, Shane Legg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben, I didn't know you were a Ruby fan...
After working in C# with Peter I'd say that's is a pretty good choice.
Sort of like Java but you can get closer to the metal where needed
quite easily.
For my project we are using Ruby and C. Almost all
On 3/20/07, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Shane Legg wrote:
Ben, I didn't know you were a Ruby fan...
Cassio has gotten me into Ruby ... but in Novamente it's used only
for prototyping, the real system is C++
For some non-AGI consulting projects we have also used Ruby.
Ruby runs
On 3/20/07, Charles D Hixson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
rooftop8000 wrote:
...
I think we should somehow allow people to use all the program languages they
want.
That somehow is the big problem. Most approaches to dealing with it
are...lamentable.
...
You can use closed modules if you have
recognition ... irrespective of scale, distortion and noise sounds
pretty interesting. Are these capabilities outside of current NNs? I'm
familiar with NNs ignoring noise, but not scale. But my NN
investigations are several years old...
I wonder if distortion includes any degree of rotation. I
I tested this and it is very very poor at invariant recognition. I am
surprised they released this given how bad it actually is. As an example I
drew a small A in the bottom left corner of their draw area. The program
returns the top 5 guesses on what you drew. The letter A was not even in
the
Kevin Cramer wrote:
I tested this and it is very very poor at invariant recognition. I am
surprised they released this given how bad it actually is. As an example I
drew a small A in the bottom left corner of their draw area. The program
returns the top 5 guesses on what you drew. The letter
On 3/20/07, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would certainly expect that a mature Novamente system would be able to
easily solve this kind of
invariant recognition problem. However, just because a human toddler
can solve this sort of problem easily, doesn't
mean a toddler level AGI
Chuck,
I did not mean to poopoo their efforts..only that they should not make such
grand claims that they aren't even close to achieving.
FYI...After reading Hawkins book I actually believe that his ideas may
indeed underlie a future AGI system...but they need to be fleshed out in
much greater
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