Re: DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

On 05/29/2017 04:08 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: We have a serious deregistration problem. Two of our experienced players, and one of our new players have deregistered. I'd like to open this up as a central thread about what we've done wrong. I'd appreciate if the former players would consider

DIS: Up for testing Agency minigames

Agencies are amazing, you can pretty much create switches inside of it and make your own minigames inside of it via threading conditions. If you need a tester for a mechanic for your protosal/proposal, and you'd like to use an Agency for that testing, I'm up for it. I have a few shinies too (you

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Judicial Reform

The Academia Proposal Contest is there so perhaps have two levels of Judges? Casual and High/Pro/Superior? Make a Judge-Degree? (Can just be a CFJ test) I definitely think newcomers can handle the more mundane CFJs like CFJ: "can I do this?" *Judge points to a rule, sometimes even two.* "Yes

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 6:49 PM Ørjan Johansen wrote: > On Tue, 30 May 2017, CuddleBeam wrote: > > >> Gah. Oh well. How would you put it? > > I'm digging a hole for myself, nvm, sorry > > So was I. Sorry. > > Greetings, > Ørjan. As was I in all probability. I'm sorry too.

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

On Tue, 30 May 2017, CuddleBeam wrote: Gah. Oh well. How would you put it? I'm digging a hole for myself, nvm, sorry So was I. Sorry. Greetings, Ørjan.

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

>Gah. Oh well. How would you put it? I'm digging a hole for myself, nvm, sorry

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

>Just in case you're not aware, that message _still_ makes you sound like a huge dick. Gah. Oh well. How would you put it?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Ørjan Johansen wrote: > On Tue, 30 May 2017, CuddleBeam wrote: > >> man saying that so stale makes me sound like a huge dick. >> >> ok so BASICALLY: >> >> -Dude it sucks that you have to leave >> -I'm not sorry about doing what I'm doing though

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Judicial Reform

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 6:17 PM Gaelan Steele wrote: > On May 29, 2017, at 6:04 PM, Aris Merchant < > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Missing a close parenthesis. Why do we need None? Surely any player > could occasionally want to judge a case, so the distinction

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

On Tue, 30 May 2017, CuddleBeam wrote: man saying that so stale makes me sound like a huge dick. ok so BASICALLY: -Dude it sucks that you have to leave -I'm not sorry about doing what I'm doing though -I want us both to play *together* in our *own way* and be HAPPY. Hopefully in the future

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Judicial Reform

> On May 29, 2017, at 6:04 PM, Aris Merchant > wrote: > > Missing a close parenthesis. Why do we need None? Surely any player > could occasionally want to judge a case, so the distinction seems > unnecessary. Fair. > I'd also make Wide the default, although

DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Judicial Reform

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 5:58 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > I create the AI-2 proposal “Judicial Reform” by Gaelan with the following > text: < > > Amend R991 “Calls for Judgement” by replacing the last paragraph with { > > “Judge Status” is a player switch tracked by the Arbitor in

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3517 assigned to Aris

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Alex Smith wrote: > > I'm finding keeping up with the game very difficult at the moment, and > may end up having to resign offices or even deregister if the activity > continues. Please don't leave. We're having enough problems with

Re: DIS: Proto/Suggestion: Agoran Provinces

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 5:05 PM, CuddleBeam wrote: > In order to break this "critical mass" of activity, I suggest dividing the > game into three (simplified) sub-nomics, and have them each develop as their > own Province. > > There has been precedence of Agora having a

Re: DIS: Proto/Suggestion: Agoran Provinces

I think this could be a good idea and I was thinking about messing around with agencies to test this out. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On May 29, 2017, at 8:05 PM, CuddleBeam wrote: > > In order to break this "critical

DIS: Proto/Suggestion: Agoran Provinces

In order to break this "critical mass" of activity, I suggest dividing the game into three (simplified) sub-nomics, and have them each develop as their own Province. There has been precedence of Agora having a similar "divide" (the Blots and such), although this would be making the slices in a

Re: Re: DIS: A Solution to the Issue of Philosophy

Precisely because its gameplay-related is what makes it interesting (to me, personally). It's like finding a lego block and finding that it somehow relates to the beginning of the universe. Also, there seems to be a "Critical Mass" of activity that the Ruleset/game design can handle at any time.

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3493, 3494 assigned to Aris

Aris, I think CFJ 3493 is trivially FALSE given your judgement on 3494, but I think you still need to judge it :). (sorry if you did and I missed it). https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3493 On Sat, 27 May 2017, Aris Merchant wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 12:25 AM Owen

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3517 assigned to Aris

Please don't leave before you fix up the ruleset - though I guess you don't lose your nickname even if you deregister On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 16:24 Alex Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2017-05-29 at 16:17 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > On Mon, 29 May 2017, Alex Smith wrote: >

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3517 assigned to Aris

On Mon, 2017-05-29 at 16:17 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > On Mon, 29 May 2017, Alex Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 2017-05-28 at 12:53 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > I request this be linked to Cuddlebeam's most recent CFJ. > > I can't honour this request because the CFJ in question was > withdrawn. >

DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3517 assigned to Aris

On Mon, 29 May 2017, Alex Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2017-05-28 at 12:53 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > I request this be linked to Cuddlebeam's most recent CFJ. > I can't honour this request because the CFJ in question was withdrawn. Actually, I think CuddleBeam withdrew it in discussion forum, but

Re: DIS: Voting strength

Cool, I'll gain a better understanding of all of this as I become hopefully temp assessor. I've got some scripts to write today it seems. On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 15:45 Alex Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2017-05-29 at 20:12 +, Quazie wrote: > > If voting strength increases

Re: DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

On Mon, 2017-05-29 at 16:25 -0500, grok (caleb vines) wrote: > I'm fairly certain my deregistration statement clearly outlines that the > fruitless philosophical CFJ attempts in spite of obvious rules that answers > them are my biggest gripe. I don't mind some philosophical discussion of > the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

man saying that so stale makes me sound like a huge dick. ok so BASICALLY: -Dude it sucks that you have to leave -I'm not sorry about doing what I'm doing though -I want us both to play *together* in our *own way* and be HAPPY. Hopefully in the future that happens. OK THATS ALL I FEEL AWKWARD

Re: DIS: Draft promotor report

I would like to unofficially request that the proposal pool not be drained until people get paid so that people can afford to pay the fees. 天火狐 On 28 May 2017 at 20:11, Aris Merchant wrote: > The following is a draft report. Note that it's not quite the same

Re: DIS: Voting strength

On Mon, 2017-05-29 at 20:12 +, Quazie wrote: > If voting strength increases or decreases during the voting period, what > happens?  Nichdel voted and then deregistered, thus dropping eir strength > to 0 - do eir votes still count? Actually, nonregistered persons have voting strength 1. They

DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

I find it massively unfortunate that you've felt the need to leave, and I do feel that I'm definitely part of this new music that is sounding across Agora which you dislike. But I enjoy what I enjoy, and I'll pursue my own happiness in Agora, but I'll also try to help everyone else achieve theirs

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

On Mon, 29 May 2017, grok (caleb vines) wrote: > Believe me, you were never part of the problem. I didn't mind opining > over philosophy in Agora as long as it's backed with an understanding > of the rules and CFJ precedent--something you always made sure to include > in your more abstract

Re: DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

I'm fairly certain my deregistration statement clearly outlines that the fruitless philosophical CFJ attempts in spite of obvious rules that answers them are my biggest gripe. I don't mind some philosophical discussion of the rules, but when the ruleset or prior CFJs obviously answer the question

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3505 assigned to Quazie

On Mon, 29 May 2017, Quazie wrote: > Cool cool. It was a double whammy of precedence I was trying to set. > > 1 - you can CFJ on questions (non-controvertial) > 2 - some future conditionals are legit outside of voting (but I tried > to ensure that it was limited in scope) Yeah, the full

Re: DIS: A Solution to the Issue of Philosophy

On Mon, 29 May 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > Given the recent problems regarding philosophical discussion: > > How would people feel about making a new mailing list for these discussions > to take place and maybe the Herald could post weekly summaries to official? > This would

Re: DIS: Regulating snark

On Mon, 29 May 2017, Quazie wrote: > Proto proposal: Grudge. > There exists an asset called a Grudge. Karma systems +1 like the idea; when we've had them, they both lead to good feelings and let us know when we're stepping on each others' toes.

Re: DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

Are there any key behaviours you can identify that were problematic? Are there any solutions you would like to see Agora implement? Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On May 29, 2017, at 5:17 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote: > > If

Re: DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

If you have any questions about my deregistration that aren't answered in my deregistration statement, I'd be happy to answer them. On May 29, 2017 4:08 PM, "Aris Merchant" wrote: > We have a serious deregistration problem. Two of our experienced players, >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

I don't think this situation required permanent record. On May 29, 2017 3:53 PM, "Publius Scribonius Scholasticus" < p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I would have recommended that you submitted a Writ of FAGE. > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus >

Re: DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

I already proposed in a separate thread a new mailing list. As for other solutions, maybe a state of emergency where if we are plummeting down hill like this, we can hit the breaks stop and have a meta-conversation. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On

Re: DIS: A Solution to the Issue of Philosophy

As long as the discussions of philosophy have implications on the game state, this will never be a functional solution. Also, if my deregistration statement didn't make it clear, the problem is not philosophy on face. On May 29, 2017 4:03 PM, "Publius Scribonius Scholasticus" <

DIS: Regarding the dergistrations

We have a serious deregistration problem. Two of our experienced players, and one of our new players have deregistered. I'd like to open this up as a central thread about what we've done wrong. I'd appreciate if the former players would consider joining in the discussion, so that we might work

DIS: A Solution to the Issue of Philosophy

Given the recent problems regarding philosophical discussion: How would people feel about making a new mailing list for these discussions to take place and maybe the Herald could post weekly summaries to official? This would allow people to avoid the discussion without being completely out of

Re: DIS: Regulating snark

I think the Anger Management or even carding could be a helpful addition. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On May 29, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Josh T wrote: > > Maybe also have something like "If a player X owns three grudges and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

I don’t feel able to serve as assessor. I would be willing to serve as Reportor, but you should take it up, if you wish. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On May 29, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Martin Rönsch wrote: > > Am 29.05.2017 um

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

I concur with this general sentiment, philosophy is interesting, but the rules and legislative process are the core of the game. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On May 29, 2017, at 12:56 PM, Nic Evans wrote: > > On 05/26/2017

DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

I would have recommended that you submitted a Writ of FAGE. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com > On May 29, 2017, at 12:58 PM, grok (caleb vines) wrote: > > I was really excited to play legislative-based, classic nomic style Agora. >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3505 assigned to Quazie

Cool cool. It was a double whammy of precedence I was trying to set. 1 - you can CFJ on questions (non-controvertial) 2 - some future conditionals are legit outside of voting (but I tried to ensure that it was limited in scope) Also - that judgement also implies that the case is still open, as I

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3505 assigned to Quazie

On Mon, 29 May 2017, Quazie wrote: > I am always willing to listen to your criticism G. - please let me know what > you thought I said, and how I can word things better in the future to reduce > confusion. Actually, thinking about it, the honest truth is that in cutting/pasting everything, I

DIS: Voting strength

If voting strength increases or decreases during the voting period, what happens? Nichdel voted and then deregistered, thus dropping eir strength to 0 - do eir votes still count?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3505 assigned to Quazie

I am always willing to listen to your criticism G. - please let me know what you thought I said, and how I can word things better in the future to reduce confusion. On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 13:08 Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > I humbly and un-regulated-ly withdraw any objection

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3505 assigned to Quazie

I humbly and un-regulated-ly withdraw any objection I had to Quazie's judgement here. In rapidly cutting and pasting lots of judgements into the database yesterday, I completely misread/misinterpreted the way e rephrased the CFJ statement. Looking at it for more than 2 minutes now, it's a fine

Re: Re: DIS: Regulating snark

Perhaps make a central "Karma" system, linked to both cards and grudges? And holding Office with a "clean-streak" of not doing any offenses and no Tardiness would earn you Karma, for example, because you've done good service. I think it would be good for both anti-negative and pro-positive

Re: DIS: Regulating snark

Maybe also have something like "If a player X owns three grudges and for each of those grudges the targets thereof also owns a grudge against the player X, the {keeper of grudges} may place player X on Anger Management", which would be a state that punishes a player a little. Oh yeah, Grudges

Re: DIS: Regulating snark

It's a rough draft - I feel like holding grudges should be advantageous - but holding too many makes you vulnerable is the premise I was going for. Voting strength is pretty low right now (there were prior situations where voting strength defaulted to a much larger number) and maybe increasing it

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

To be fair, I think that having an important philosophical argument and background on these recent issues is important, although I haven't personally had the chance to read and go over them with a fine comb because of real life, much less come up with a worthy response. However, with the responses

Re: DIS: Regulating snark

I don't like the voting strength bit—I don't think there is any harm in creating a temporary grudge whenever you vote AGAINST. Gaelan > On May 29, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Quazie wrote: > > Proto proposal: Grudge. > > There exists an asset called a Grudge. > > Each Grudge

DIS: Unofficial Vote Results for 7853-7857

Here's the vote tallies for the most recent proposals: || 7853 | 7854 | 7855 | 7856 | 7857 | |+--+--+--+--+--+ |ais523 | F| F| F| F| F| |Gaelan | F| F| A| F| F| |grok| P| P| P| F| F| |nichdel |

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

Am 29.05.2017 um 19:44 schrieb Quazie: Okay - I will cover ADoP. Reporter is vacant as is assessor. PSS showed interest in reporter at one point, but does anyone have interest in Assessor? I don't want it - but i am now back at Agora, and I'm willing to step up if no one else is

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

Sad to see you go grok - hope I wasn't overly problematic - your insight so far has led me to some interesting archive spelunking on my part - and I really have enjoyed your play so far. Interestingly - does grok's agency get dissolved? I think it doesn't - so i'll work on fixing that. (Though

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

Okay - I will cover ADoP. Reporter is vacant as is assessor. PSS showed interest in reporter at one point, but does anyone have interest in Assessor? I don't want it - but i am now back at Agora, and I'm willing to step up if no one else is interested. On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:00 Nicholas

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

Did you resign from all your positions? Did you deregister? Don't leave us nichdel (but I understand if you need to leave) On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 09:55 Nic Evans wrote: > On 05/26/2017 04:39 PM, Nic Evans wrote: > > I initiate an election for Associate Director of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: This isn't what I thought it would be

Believe me, you were never part of the problem. I didn't mind opining over philosophy in Agora as long as it's backed with an understanding of the rules and CFJ precedent--something you always made sure to include in your more abstract posts. I'm more frustrated with the blase "I say I did so I

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: [ADoP] Initiating Elections Again (Referee, ADoP, Registrar)

On Mon, 29 May 2017, Nicholas Evans wrote: > To clarify i mean i completely deregister, not resign ADoP Ugh. I really am going to shut up about philosophy now. Really sorry for my part in this.

Re: Re: Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

>Please tone down the language a wee bit, we like to pretend to be >genteel. (I'm not saying nichdel wasn't overly snarky emself; this is a >de-escalation request all around). Yeah I re-read my thing and found it to be more intense than it should be lol. Sorry about that.

Re: Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

On Mon, 29 May 2017, CuddleBeam wrote: > But yeah. Don't fucking toss me an ad hominem. I'll gladly re-process > the ideas and re-present it again. Please tone down the language a wee bit, we like to pretend to be genteel. (I'm not saying nichdel wasn't overly snarky emself; this is a

Re: Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

>This response makes me think you didn't read or comprehend my response. This is a really intense claim, but I'll restate my response again, but breaking down your exact reply instead of making certain assumptions which I thought were obvious from dialogue. I believe this is the "practical"

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

Ok, here's the longer deal on unregulated actions. The rules neither take from, nor add to, your ability to perform unregulated actions. For this, CFJs 2149 and 2150 are instructive. From those two cases: "Celebrating" is unregulated. Can you celebrate something by announcement? Sure! By

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

This response makes me think you didn't read or comprehend my response. And your recent behavior makes me think you don't attempt to comprehend the rules before acting. On May 29, 2017 10:35, "CuddleBeam" wrote: > >The rules allow withdrawing ballots and proposals

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

>The rules allow withdrawing ballots and proposals explicitly, and explicitly mention what happens, so under those conditions it's clearly regulated. I disagree. An action is regulated if: * (1) the Rules limit, allow, enable, or permit its performance - There is no limitation, permission or

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3505 assigned to Quazie

I am happy to reconsider of you lemme know where I over stepped. On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 21:17 Josh T wrote: > I am willing to support reconsidering this CFJ on behalf of G. if there is > interest among the players for reconsideration. > > 天火狐 > > On 28 May 2017 at

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

On 05/29/2017 07:04 AM, CuddleBeam wrote: > No one seems to understand what unregulated means. All it means is > that the rules can't say that an action is impossible or prohibited. > It doesn't magically make it possible, or convince the rules to care > about it. All the unregulated/regulated

Re: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer is a humble agoran farmer

>Although I do think grok's "If I am still an objector, but my objection >has been withdrawn [by someone else], can I withdraw my objection?" is >a valid question. We don't even have a mechanic to *withdraw* in the first place. If you can pull out of the ether that you can "withdraw", I believe

DIS: Re: OFF: [Rulekeepor] Revised Full Logical Ruleset

On Sun, 28 May 2017, Gaelan Steele wrote: > Online documents: > https://agoranomic.github.io/ruleset/slr.txt (SLR) > https://agoranomic.github.io/ruleset/flr.txt (FLR) You might want to check your flr link Gaelan - it looks like it goes to an older (9-May) copy.