Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

On 2020-06-13 22:27, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:

I personally dislike the new format as gmail does NOT give agoran messages
to me in fixed width, thus I need to access the archives to read messages
like this (which I forgot my password to years ago). I overall prefer less
compactness in reports as I don't like the extreme misalignment that
everything comes into my client with. But I'm aware that there's probably a
way to fix this and it's just a me problem.
I am open to suggestions if you have a different way to display this. 
I'm not going to have nine tables as big as the current one, but I am 
open to suggestions.


--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

we can be a little overly rude to people who misinterpret the rules or
forget about a rule or two but if anyone actually tries to tell you they've
never made a similar mistake or that they actually understand and remember
all the rules, they are lying.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:41 PM Rebecca  wrote:

> Welcome lucidiot as well. We have treated some new players poorly in the
> past (we were awful to Cuddlebeam when e first joined) but I'd like to
> think we are relatively welcoming. Expectations might be high (maybe too
> high) for someone like PSS who holds like a million offices. I think what
> would be most useful to say and understand is that Agora is multifaceted
> enough that you can put in as much or as little effort as you like. You can
> hold a million offices and try hard to win every subgame, or you can just
> vote on proposals and judge a CFJ or two, or you can take no game actions
> at all and just offer your opinions/discuss things and those are all valid
> ways to play.
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:37 PM Rebecca  wrote:
>
>> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel
>> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
>> The Ruleset should have more prominent links and be updated to remove
>> outdated info and with the current name of the Rulekeepor. "As of May 2017"
>> should obviously be updated periodically to the current month. G. should
>> fix the gaps in eir CFJ database and I have pledged to give em all my
>> assets if e does so, so that's pretty cool.
>> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
>> I honestly think not much, maybe a few more tips on the technical side of
>> things (mailing lists are an old technology  that it is more likely to not
>> be understood than was the case a long time ago). Some appealing events
>> from our history, maybe
>> * What online resources do you use the most?
>> The ruleset I always use from the weblink, sometimes CFJ databases, and I
>> really like and often read Falsifian's reportor reports: we really need to
>> start compensating em with game assets for those reports/
>> * What resources do you wish were online?
>> Updated stuff for every office. HOWEVER i have no idea how to edit a
>> website or make my own office page or update it, so it's hypocritical from
>> me I guess.
>> * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client,
>> phone client]
>> gmail.com which is kind of bad.
>> * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you
>> access Agora through that you find indispensable?
>> Gmail's search function is excellent and usually dispenses with the need
>> to use the archives for me.
>> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?
>> Idk
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:16 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
>> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
>>> > Hello there!  First time posting here!
>>>
>>> Welcome!
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>>> >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.
>>> >>
>>> >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I
>>> feel
>>> >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
>>> > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the
>>> general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring
>>> interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while
>>> binge-reading through all the emails.
>>> >
>>> > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along
>>> other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making
>>> the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that
>>> the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect.
>>>
>>>
>>> +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I
>>> thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public
>>> archives.
>>>
>>>
>>> >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
>>> > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do
>>> not feel confident at all!  There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to
>>> uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people
>>> try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :).
>>> That was my experience, at least.
>>>
>>> Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic
>>> Github org [0].
>>>
>>>
>>> > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it
>>> is okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower
>>> than they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming
>>> (even during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself
>>> to convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would
>>> definitely 

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

Welcome lucidiot as well. We have treated some new players poorly in the
past (we were awful to Cuddlebeam when e first joined) but I'd like to
think we are relatively welcoming. Expectations might be high (maybe too
high) for someone like PSS who holds like a million offices. I think what
would be most useful to say and understand is that Agora is multifaceted
enough that you can put in as much or as little effort as you like. You can
hold a million offices and try hard to win every subgame, or you can just
vote on proposals and judge a CFJ or two, or you can take no game actions
at all and just offer your opinions/discuss things and those are all valid
ways to play.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:37 PM Rebecca  wrote:

> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel
> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
> The Ruleset should have more prominent links and be updated to remove
> outdated info and with the current name of the Rulekeepor. "As of May 2017"
> should obviously be updated periodically to the current month. G. should
> fix the gaps in eir CFJ database and I have pledged to give em all my
> assets if e does so, so that's pretty cool.
> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
> I honestly think not much, maybe a few more tips on the technical side of
> things (mailing lists are an old technology  that it is more likely to not
> be understood than was the case a long time ago). Some appealing events
> from our history, maybe
> * What online resources do you use the most?
> The ruleset I always use from the weblink, sometimes CFJ databases, and I
> really like and often read Falsifian's reportor reports: we really need to
> start compensating em with game assets for those reports/
> * What resources do you wish were online?
> Updated stuff for every office. HOWEVER i have no idea how to edit a
> website or make my own office page or update it, so it's hypocritical from
> me I guess.
> * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client,
> phone client]
> gmail.com which is kind of bad.
> * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you
> access Agora through that you find indispensable?
> Gmail's search function is excellent and usually dispenses with the need
> to use the archives for me.
> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?
> Idk
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:16 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
>> > Hello there!  First time posting here!
>>
>> Welcome!
>>
>>
>> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>> >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.
>> >>
>> >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I
>> feel
>> >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
>> > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the
>> general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring
>> interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while
>> binge-reading through all the emails.
>> >
>> > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along
>> other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making
>> the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that
>> the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect.
>>
>>
>> +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I
>> thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public
>> archives.
>>
>>
>> >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
>> > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do
>> not feel confident at all!  There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to
>> uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered.
>>
>>
>> There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people
>> try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :).
>> That was my experience, at least.
>>
>> Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic
>> Github org [0].
>>
>>
>> > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is
>> okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than
>> they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even
>> during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to
>> convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would
>> definitely help.
>> >
>> > The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common
>> practices for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links
>> with annotations like [0].  I had to explain what bottom-posting means to
>> someone yesterday, on an unrelated project.
>>
>>
>> The mailing lists should be adding the prefixes automatically, so long
>> as you send it to the right list's email 

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

* What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel
like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
The Ruleset should have more prominent links and be updated to remove
outdated info and with the current name of the Rulekeepor. "As of May 2017"
should obviously be updated periodically to the current month. G. should
fix the gaps in eir CFJ database and I have pledged to give em all my
assets if e does so, so that's pretty cool.
* What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
I honestly think not much, maybe a few more tips on the technical side of
things (mailing lists are an old technology  that it is more likely to not
be understood than was the case a long time ago). Some appealing events
from our history, maybe
* What online resources do you use the most?
The ruleset I always use from the weblink, sometimes CFJ databases, and I
really like and often read Falsifian's reportor reports: we really need to
start compensating em with game assets for those reports/
* What resources do you wish were online?
Updated stuff for every office. HOWEVER i have no idea how to edit a
website or make my own office page or update it, so it's hypocritical from
me I guess.
* How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client,
phone client]
gmail.com which is kind of bad.
* Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you
access Agora through that you find indispensable?
Gmail's search function is excellent and usually dispenses with the need to
use the archives for me.
* Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?
Idk

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:16 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
> > Hello there!  First time posting here!
>
> Welcome!
>
>
> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.
> >>
> >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel
> >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
> > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the
> general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring
> interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while
> binge-reading through all the emails.
> >
> > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along
> other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making
> the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that
> the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect.
>
>
> +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I
> thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public
> archives.
>
>
> >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
> > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do
> not feel confident at all!  There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to
> uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered.
>
>
> There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people
> try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :).
> That was my experience, at least.
>
> Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic
> Github org [0].
>
>
> > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is
> okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than
> they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even
> during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to
> convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would
> definitely help.
> >
> > The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common
> practices for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links
> with annotations like [0].  I had to explain what bottom-posting means to
> someone yesterday, on an unrelated project.
>
>
> The mailing lists should be adding the prefixes automatically, so long
> as you send it to the right list's email address.
>
>
> >> * What online resources do you use the most?
> > Since it is linked on the homepage, I had used the public archives at
> mail-archive.com quite a lot to get an overview of the game before
> subscribing to the lists.
> >
> > I no longer use this as I just get the emails, but I regularly use
> Gaelan's ruleset page [0]. It shows HTTP 502 errors half of the time, and
> right now it has HTTP 500, possibly due to recent changes in the FLR, but I
> still like it since it makes browsing the rules easier with hyperlinks on
> key concepts. That is a very welcome thing when you want to learn the rules!
>
>
> I've been considering rewriting the ruleset generation for a while, and
> that might permit a functional HTML ruleset viewer.
>
>
> > - A glossary of acronyms; I am still unsure about what CotC means, and
> it took me a while 

Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

also if those are the actual current numbers you have, be aware that i
currently have no cards, the lottery has some cards, the L department has
two of my cards now, etc

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:53 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 6/13/20 11:48 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 05:33, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-06-13 21:32, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> >>
>  -- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12
>  months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by
>  High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest
>  Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of
>  BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of
>  Infinite Nomic.
> >>> And I thought this was going to be a temporary joke. How foolish of me.
> >> I'm going to keep it until someone has to come to me in desperation and
> >> beg me to remove it.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trigon
> >> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> >> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> >> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> >> Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic;
> >> Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite
> Nomic.
> > You might want to squeeze "Founder of the League of Agorans Facilitating
> Effective Recordkeeping" in there
> >
> > --
> > ~lucidiot
>
>
> Also. "contributor to the Talk:Nomic page on Wikipedia".
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
>

-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

I personally dislike the new format as gmail does NOT give agoran messages
to me in fixed width, thus I need to access the archives to read messages
like this (which I forgot my password to years ago). I overall prefer less
compactness in reports as I don't like the extreme misalignment that
everything comes into my client with. But I'm aware that there's probably a
way to fix this and it's just a me problem.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:53 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 6/13/20 11:48 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 05:33, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-06-13 21:32, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> >>
>  -- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12
>  months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by
>  High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest
>  Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of
>  BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of
>  Infinite Nomic.
> >>> And I thought this was going to be a temporary joke. How foolish of me.
> >> I'm going to keep it until someone has to come to me in desperation and
> >> beg me to remove it.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trigon
> >> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> >> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> >> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> >> Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic;
> >> Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite
> Nomic.
> > You might want to squeeze "Founder of the League of Agorans Facilitating
> Effective Recordkeeping" in there
> >
> > --
> > ~lucidiot
>
>
> Also. "contributor to the Talk:Nomic page on Wikipedia".
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
>

-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
> Hello there!  First time posting here!

Welcome!


> On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.
>>
>> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel
>> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]
> Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the general 
> state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring interpretations of 
> the discussions that I had not understood while binge-reading through all the 
> emails.
>
> The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along other 
> 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making the 
> homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that the game 
> is still quite active and the type of play to expect.


+1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I
thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public
archives.


>> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?
> I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do not 
> feel confident at all!  There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to 
> uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered.


There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people
try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :).
That was my experience, at least.

Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic
Github org [0].


> This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is okay 
> to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than they 
> seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even during 
> hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to convince 
> myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would definitely help.
>
> The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common practices 
> for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links with 
> annotations like [0].  I had to explain what bottom-posting means to someone 
> yesterday, on an unrelated project.


The mailing lists should be adding the prefixes automatically, so long
as you send it to the right list's email address.


>> * What online resources do you use the most?
> Since it is linked on the homepage, I had used the public archives at 
> mail-archive.com quite a lot to get an overview of the game before 
> subscribing to the lists.
>
> I no longer use this as I just get the emails, but I regularly use Gaelan's 
> ruleset page [0]. It shows HTTP 502 errors half of the time, and right now it 
> has HTTP 500, possibly due to recent changes in the FLR, but I still like it 
> since it makes browsing the rules easier with hyperlinks on key concepts. 
> That is a very welcome thing when you want to learn the rules!


I've been considering rewriting the ruleset generation for a while, and
that might permit a functional HTML ruleset viewer.


> - A glossary of acronyms; I am still unsure about what CotC means, and it 
> took me a while to understand NttPF and TTttPF


Yes, we all have a chronic problem of not sending things to the public
forum. I learned about all the acronyms from Murphy's old site [1],
which is linked on the homepage. "CotC" stands for "Clerk of the
Courts", and is an unofficial position that G. takes on in addition to
eir role as Arbitor.


>> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?
> Some more generic thoughts: the website could probably become more attractive 
> by having more graphics.  ASCII art is cool, and I generally find the various 
> reports to be interesting, but a benefit of the web is it's not just 
> plaintext.
>
> This might require some effort, but a graph of the current economy showing 
> the volume of currency exchanges, or one with the volumes of mails exchanged 
> on each list over time would look nice.
> Or a hall of fame showing all the winners on golden plates.
> Or a very corporate-looking "sub-site" for the Dragon Corporation. The 
> Startup Generator [1] could be an inspiration.


Ooh I like the idea of a website for the Dragon Corporation...


[0]: http://github.com/AgoraNomic/

[1]: http://zenith.homelinux.net/agora_acronyms.php

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 9:27 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.
>
> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel 
> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]

I think current events would be a good idea, and we might want to focus
on updating some of the current links to old websites.


>
> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?

Acronyms, and pretty much everything lucidot said.


> * What online resources do you use the most?

The SLR and the CFJ archives.


>
> * What resources do you wish were online?

I'm actually pretty content with what we have now. Even the CFJ archive
can be made searchable by searching the GitHub mirror.


>
> * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, 
> phone client]

Thunderbird.


>
> * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you 
> access Agora through that you find indispensable?


Just use a client with proper threading support. This notably excludes
the Gmail web client.


> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?
>
/shrug. This is kind of hard for me to answer because I feel fine right
now, but I'm sure that as soon as an improvement is made I will think
"how did I ever live without this?".

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 11:48 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote:
> On Sunday 14 June 2020 05:33, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
>
>> On 2020-06-13 21:32, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
>>
 -- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12
 months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by
 High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest
 Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of
 BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of
 Infinite Nomic.
>>> And I thought this was going to be a temporary joke. How foolish of me.
>> I'm going to keep it until someone has to come to me in desperation and
>> beg me to remove it.
>>
>> --
>> Trigon
>> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
>> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
>> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
>> Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic;
>> Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.
> You might want to squeeze "Founder of the League of Agorans Facilitating 
> Effective Recordkeeping" in there
>
> --
> ~lucidiot


Also. "contributor to the Talk:Nomic page on Wikipedia".

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[Alex Smith via agora-discussion]

 On Sunday, 14 June 2020, 04:43:56 GMT+1, lucidiot via agora-discussion 
 wrote:
> > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client,
> > phone client]
> 
> I am currently replying using Protonmail's webmail, because I am having 
> issues with my normal desktop client, Evolution.

Huh, so it isn't just me. I wonder what's gone wrong with Evolution recently?

I used to be able to receive Agoran emails via Evolution but not send (thus I 
received at this account but sent via the @alumni email account). Recently it's 
been the other way round, I can send but not receive. (However, most of the 
time I want to reply to an existing thread, so can't really use it to send 
either.)

-- 
ais523  

Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[lucidiot via agora-discussion]

On Sunday 14 June 2020 05:33, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:

> On 2020-06-13 21:32, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
>
> > > -- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12
> > > months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by
> > > High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest
> > > Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of
> > > BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of
> > > Infinite Nomic.
> >
> > And I thought this was going to be a temporary joke. How foolish of me.
>
> I'm going to keep it until someone has to come to me in desperation and
> beg me to remove it.
>
> --
> Trigon
> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic;
> Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

You might want to squeeze "Founder of the League of Agorans Facilitating 
Effective Recordkeeping" in there

--
~lucidiot

Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[lucidiot via agora-discussion]

Hello there!  First time posting here!

I have been watching the lists for a bit more than a month now, and as I have 
been trying to keep up with the updates and understand all the concepts of 
Agora, I feel like I am in a pretty good spot to share some thoughts.

I also have a general interest in understanding Agora's history, preserving it, 
and making it easier to access; I would definitely love to help the Webmastor 
in general!

On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.
>
> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel
> like it could use a facelift and some new copy]

Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the general 
state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring interpretations of 
the discussions that I had not understood while binge-reading through all the 
emails.

The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along other 
'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making the 
homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that the game 
is still quite active and the type of play to expect.

The few paragraphs currently on the homepage could be updated and moved to an 
About page, and the homepage just has a short paragraph on the homepage to 
describe it, along with a link to that page to learn more.

> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?

I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do not feel 
confident at all!  There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to uncover, and 
archives, sites, repos are quite scattered.

I also felt like everyone was rather strict or unforgiving, until Aris 
expressed similar feelings and things warmed up.  It is possible that starting 
to watch during some difficult times encouraged that feeling.

This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is okay to 
start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than they seem 
to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even during hard 
times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to convince myself to 
reply, but reading them from someone else would definitely help.

The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common practices 
for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links with 
annotations like [0].  I had to explain what bottom-posting means to someone 
yesterday, on an unrelated project.

> * What online resources do you use the most?

Since it is linked on the homepage, I had used the public archives at 
mail-archive.com quite a lot to get an overview of the game before subscribing 
to the lists.

I no longer use this as I just get the emails, but I regularly use Gaelan's 
ruleset page [0]. It shows HTTP 502 errors half of the time, and right now it 
has HTTP 500, possibly due to recent changes in the FLR, but I still like it 
since it makes browsing the rules easier with hyperlinks on key concepts. That 
is a very welcome thing when you want to learn the rules!

> * What resources do you wish were online?

A non-exhaustive list from reflecting on this for half an hour:

- Undocumented traditions, such as those recently mentioned in the fora about 
not renewing PM mandates

- How-tos, tips about writing proposals, contracts, judgements, theses, etc. 
For example, common pitfalls (allow joining/leaving/amending contracts!), 
reminding players to check the FLR for annotations on the rules they use to 
avoid making some mistakes, encouraging to use protos, …

- Cantus Cygnei

- A glossary of acronyms; I am still unsure about what CotC means, and it took 
me a while to understand NttPF and TTttPF

- The Webmastor's reports, to get both a list of existing archives and a list 
of current issues (and maybe how to help).

I admit I haven't been looking that deep for existing resources and there might 
just be a missing visible link somewhere!

> * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client,
> phone client]

I am currently replying using Protonmail's webmail, because I am having issues 
with my normal desktop client, Evolution.

> * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you
> access Agora through that you find indispensable?

Configuring mail filters right after subscribing to have all Agora mails 
separated from my normal email keeps me sane, especially when I get 200 mails 
to catch up on just a day or two.

Marking as read and instead using labels or various other indicators via those 
filters also prevents receiving tons of notifications on the phone!

> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?

Some more generic thoughts: the website could probably become more attractive 
by having more graphics.  ASCII art is cool, and I generally find the various 
reports to be interesting, but a benefit of the web is 

Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

On 2020-06-13 21:32, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:

-- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12
months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by
High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest
Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of
BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of
Infinite Nomic.


And I thought this was going to be a temporary joke. How foolish of me.


I'm going to keep it until someone has to come to me in desperation and 
beg me to remove it.


--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

Re: DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 11:17 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
> I am looking into how I want to format the Treasuror's weekly reports 
> now that there are eight more assets to keep track of. I came up with 
> the following. I tried to keep it fairly compact, but readability in the 
> headings definitely suffered. If you have any suggestions, send them my way.


Looks good to me.


> -- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12
> months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by
> High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest
> Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of
> BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of
> Infinite Nomic.


And I thought this was going to be a temporary joke. How foolish of me.

-- 
Jason Cobb

DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

I am looking into how I want to format the Treasuror's weekly reports 
now that there are eight more assets to keep track of. I came up with 
the following. I tried to keep it fairly compact, but readability in the 
headings definitely suffered. If you have any suggestions, send them my way.


+--++++++++++
|  Active  ||Vict|Just|Legi|Vote|Vict|Blot|Pen-| Ex |
|  Player  |Coin|Card|Card|Card|Card| Pt |Gone|dant|Vote|
|==++++++++++
|Aris  | 514|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|ATMunn|  70|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Baron | 115|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Cuddlebeam| 125|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Margaux   |1259|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Falsifian |  98|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|G.| 904|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Gaelan|  58|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|grok  |  35|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Jason | 582|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Murphy| 235|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|omd   | 286|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|nch   | 118|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Publius   | 156|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|R. Lee| 131|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|sukil |  35|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Trigon|  85|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
+--++++++++++
|  ||Vict|Just|Legi|Vote|Vict|Blot|Pend| Ex |
|  Zombie  |Coin|Card|Card|Card|Card| Pt |Gone|ant |Vote|
+==++++++++++
|pikhq |  75|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Tcbapo|  47|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
+--++++++++++
|Non-player||Vict|Just|Legi|Vote|Vict|Blot|Pend| Ex |
|  Entity  |Coin|Card|Card|Card|Card| Pt |Gone|ant |Vote|
+==++++++++++
|Agora |2300|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|D. Corp.  | 495|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|L Dept. | 575|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
+--++++++++++

All other Entities have 0 of all enumerated assets.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

DIS: [Treasuror] New Report Format

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

I am looking into how I want to format the Treasuror's weekly reports 
now that there are eight more assets to keep track of. I came up with 
the following. I tried to keep it fairly compact, but readability in the 
headings definitely suffered. If you have any suggestions, send them my way.


+--++++++++++
|  Active  ||Vict|Just|Legi|Vote|Vict|Blot|Pen-| Ex |
|  Player  |Coin|Card|Card|Card|Card| Pt |Gone|dant|Vote|
|==++++++++++
|Aris  | 514|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|ATMunn|  70|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Baron | 115|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Cuddlebeam| 125|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Margaux   |1259|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Falsifian |  98|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|G.| 904|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Gaelan|  58|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|grok  |  35|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Jason | 582|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Murphy| 235|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|omd   | 286|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|nch   | 118|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Publius   | 156|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|R. Lee| 131|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|sukil |  35|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Trigon|  85|   1|   1|   1|   1|   0|   0|   0|   0|
+--++++++++++
|  ||Vict|Just|Legi|Vote|Vict|Blot|Pend| Ex |
|  Zombie  |Coin|Card|Card|Card|Card| Pt |Gone|ant |Vote|
+==++++++++++
|pikhq |  75|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|Tcbapo|  47|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
+--++++++++++
|Non-player||Vict|Just|Legi|Vote|Vict|Blot|Pend| Ex |
|  Entity  |Coin|Card|Card|Card|Card| Pt |Gone|ant |Vote|
+==++++++++++
|Agora |2300|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|D. Corp.  | 495|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
|L Dept. | 575|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
+--++++++++++

All other Entities have 0 of all enumerated assets.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

Proto:  "Registrar's monthly report highlights birthdays coming up in the
next month."  (or maybe just a suggestion to the registrar :) )

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 8:52 PM, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:
> lol do u have any ribbons you need to combine?

I don't think so, it looks like all of my ribbons and everything I have 
in the Scroll of Agora is properly credited.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

lol do u have any ribbons you need to combine?

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:44 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
agora-discussion  wrote:

> It’s news to me as well.
>
> >> On Jun 13, 2020, at 21:31, Rebecca via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:29 AM nch via agora-discussion <
> > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
>  On 6/13/20 8:24 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> >>> On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
>  I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
>  certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I
> >> intend
>  with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.
> >>> I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
> >>> set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
> >>> [0]:
> >>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
> >>> --
> >>> Jason Cobb
> >> While we're figuring these out, does anyone have any idea when I first
> >> registered? I'm not actually sure what my first username was. Possible
> >> nichdel.
> >>
> >> --
> >> nch
> >> Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
> >>
> >>
> >> Oh i had no idea you were the same person as em
> >
> > --
> > From R. Lee
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 8:44 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 9:42 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>> Looks like it was farther back, actually:
>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2013-August/032255.html
>>
>> My Agoran birthday is Aug 14th, 2013.
>
> My bad, I grepped for "Nic Evans" which was (at one point) the name in
> your email headers.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
I'm nothing if not consistently inconsistent.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

It’s news to me as well.

>> On Jun 13, 2020, at 21:31, Rebecca via agora-discussion 
>>  wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:29 AM nch via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> 
 On 6/13/20 8:24 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
>>> On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
 I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
 certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I
>> intend
 with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.
>>> I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
>>> set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
>>> [0]:
>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
>>> --
>>> Jason Cobb
>> While we're figuring these out, does anyone have any idea when I first
>> registered? I'm not actually sure what my first username was. Possible
>> nichdel.
>> 
>> --
>> nch
>> Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
>> 
>> 
>> Oh i had no idea you were the same person as em
> 
> -- 
> From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 9:42 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> Looks like it was farther back, actually: 
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2013-August/032255.html
>
> My Agoran birthday is Aug 14th, 2013.


My bad, I grepped for "Nic Evans" which was (at one point) the name in
your email headers.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 8:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 9:29 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>> On 6/13/20 8:24 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
>>> On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
 I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
 certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I intend
 with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.

>>> I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
>>> set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
>>>
>>> [0]:
>>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jason Cobb
>>>
>> While we're figuring these out, does anyone have any idea when I first
>> registered? I'm not actually sure what my first username was. Possible
>> nichdel.
>>
> Looks like [0].
>
> [0]:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2015-December/033963.html
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
Looks like it was farther back, actually: 
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2013-August/032255.html

My Agoran birthday is Aug 14th, 2013.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 9:29 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 8:24 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
>> On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
>>> I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
>>> certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I intend
>>> with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.
>>>
>> I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
>> set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
>>
>> [0]:
>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
>>
>> --
>> Jason Cobb
>>
> While we're figuring these out, does anyone have any idea when I first 
> registered? I'm not actually sure what my first username was. Possible 
> nichdel.
>

Looks like [0].

[0]:
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2015-December/033963.html

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:29 AM nch via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 6/13/20 8:24 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> > On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
> >> I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
> >> certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I
> intend
> >> with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.
> >>
> > I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
> > set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
> >
> > [0]:
> >
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
> >
> > --
> > Jason Cobb
> >
> While we're figuring these out, does anyone have any idea when I first
> registered? I'm not actually sure what my first username was. Possible
> nichdel.
>
> --
> nch
> Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
>
>
> Oh i had no idea you were the same person as em

-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 9:18 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>> Rule 2595 requires that "[the initiator] published an announcement of
>> intent that unambiguously, clearly, conspicuously, and without
>> obfuscation specified the action to be taken and the method(s) to be
>> used". If the parameters can only be evaluated at the time of resolution
>> and not at the time of initiation, the specification arguably does not
>> meet that standard.
>>
>> --
>> Jason Cobb
>>
> Which part of those standards do you feel it doesn't meet?


If the set of coins that could potentially be transferred by the intent
can be changed by the time of resolution, I would say that it's not even
"clear" which coins the intent specifies, because, ultimately a set of
assets has to be selected to be transferred from L under Rule 2576,
and the intent has to "unambiguously, clearly, conspicuously, and
without obfuscation" specify those assets. If the reference is floating,
then it could come to potentially include any coin in the game, which I
feel isn't a "clear" specification of the assets to be transferred.

Of course, I don't have any other rule text then what I've cited so far
for my argument, and I haven't conducted a thorough (or any) search of
the archives for this, so I could be missing something glaringly obvious.

-- 
Jason Cobb

DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 8:24 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
>> I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
>> certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I intend
>> with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.
>>
> I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
> set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
>
> [0]:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
While we're figuring these out, does anyone have any idea when I first 
registered? I'm not actually sure what my first username was. Possible 
nichdel.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling

[nch via agora-discussion]

Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content.

* What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel 
like it could use a facelift and some new copy]

* What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page?

* What online resources do you use the most?

* What resources do you wish were online?

* How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, 
phone client]

* Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you 
access Agora through that you find indispensable?

* Anything else that you think would help improve the web content?

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

DIS: Re: BUS: Agora Birthday

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

Nooo i was afraid of this

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 11:25 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 6/13/20 9:22 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
> > I have no idea what exact day I registered for Agora, but I know with
> > certainty that it was mid-June, 2017 (under the name V.J. Rada). I intend
> > with agoran consent to set my Agoran Birthday at 19 June.
> >
>
> I object. It is known that you registered with message [0], which would
> set your date of registration to 7 Jun 2017.
>
> [0]:
>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-June/035041.html
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
>

-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 7:27 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 8:16 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
>>> No, that's not right. It is calculated from the time of the resolution of
>> the intent, not the intent itself.
>>
>> I do intend to transfer a  victory card and also intend to transfer a
>> legislative card from the Lost and Found Department to myself, both without
>> objection.
>
> I know that coins are fungible, but let's consider if they weren't for a
> second.
>
> Assume L had 3 coins: Coin A, Coin B, and Coin C, and I said "I
> intend, without objection, to transfer each coin owned by the L to
> myself". I think that I would clearly have only given intents for Coins
> A, B, and C, even if Coin D was later transferred to L, because Coin
> D wasn't a "coin owned by the L" at the time of the intent.
>
> You're suggesting that the parameters to the actions are evaluated at
> the time the intent is resolved. Consider if the Registrar said "I
> intend, with notice, to deregister the person I have most recently
> designated as 'The One To Be Deregistered'." I think everyone would have
> a problem with that - the parameters to the action are arguably part of
> specifying the action itself.
>
> Rule 2595 requires that "[the initiator] published an announcement of
> intent that unambiguously, clearly, conspicuously, and without
> obfuscation specified the action to be taken and the method(s) to be
> used". If the parameters can only be evaluated at the time of resolution
> and not at the time of initiation, the specification arguably does not
> meet that standard.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
Which part of those standards do you feel it doesn't meet?

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer now has a pegleg and an eyepatch

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

I even have a pun in my name

Aaaargh Lee

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:55 AM ATMunn via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> you're already a pirate
>
> On 6/13/2020 8:51 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
> > I become a Pirate and consent to Falsifian's Parley
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:50 AM James Cook via agora-business <
> > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 4:49 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business
> >>>  wrote:
> 
>  On 6/13/20 4:46 PM, James Cook via agora-business wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 15:05, Cuddle Beam via agora-business
> >  wrote:
> >> Thanks for pointing that out! I amend "The Plunder Partnership" to
> >> read in
> >> full:
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >> The Plunder Partnership
> >>
> >> ‍☠️ WHO WE BE
> >>
> >> The Plunder Partnership is also known as the Plundership. A party
> >> to this
> >> contract is known as a Pirate. Any person who is not in Davy Jones’
> >> Locker
> >> can become a Pirate. Any Pirate can make themselves cease to be one
> >> by
> >> announcement.
> >>
> >> ‍☠️ NO TATTLE-TALES
> >>
> >> Any person who has objected to a transferral of coins from the Lost
> >> and
> >> Found Department to the Plundership are in Davy Jones’ Locker. A
> >> person in
> >> Davy Jones’ Locker cannot become a Pirate, and they immediately
> >> cease to be
> >> a Pirate if they already were one.
> >>
> >> ‍☠️ DOUBLOONS
> >>
> >> Doubloons are a destructible asset that can only belong to Pirates.
> >> When an
> >> amount of coins is transferred to the Plundership, each Pirate
> >> gains an
> >> amount of Doubloons equal to the amount transferred divided by the
> >> amount
> >> of Pirates, rounded down. A Pirate with at least 1 Doubloon can
> >> transfer 1
> >> coin to themselves from the Plundership. Doing so destroys 1
> >> Doubloon in
> >> their possession.
> >>
> >> ‍☠️ PARLEY
> >>
> >> Any Pirate can propose a Parley by announcement, which describes
> >> amendments
> >> to this contract. If at least 2/3rds (rounded up) of all Pirates
> >> consent to
> >> the Parley’s contents, this contract is amended according to the
> >> Parley.
> >>
> >> -
> >
> > I become a Pirate.
> >
> > I propose the following Parley:
> >
> > {
> >
> > Replace the last sentence (under PARLEY) with:
> >
> > If a Parley was proposed at least 2 days ago, at least 2/3rds
> >> (rounded
> > up) of all Pirates consent to its contents, and it has not yet been
> > applied, then any Pirate can apply it by announcement, causing this
> > contract to be amended according to it.
> >
> > }
> >
> > (Motivation: give players a chance to escape if 2/3 try to bind the
> > remaining 1/3 to unfavourable terms. I'd prefer 4 days, but starting
> > with 2 since it's closer to the current situation.)
> >
> > - Falsifian
> 
> 
>  I consent.
> 
>  --
>  Jason Cobb
> >>
> >> On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 21:21, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
> >> agora-business  wrote:
> >>> As do I.
> >>
> >> I also consent to my Parley.
> >>
> >> - Falsifian
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> ATMunn
> future notary here :)
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer now has a pegleg and an eyepatch

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

you're already a pirate

On 6/13/2020 8:51 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:

I become a Pirate and consent to Falsifian's Parley

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:50 AM James Cook via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:



On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 4:49 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business
 wrote:


On 6/13/20 4:46 PM, James Cook via agora-business wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 15:05, Cuddle Beam via agora-business
 wrote:

Thanks for pointing that out! I amend "The Plunder Partnership" to

read in

full:

-

The Plunder Partnership

‍☠️ WHO WE BE

The Plunder Partnership is also known as the Plundership. A party

to this

contract is known as a Pirate. Any person who is not in Davy Jones’

Locker

can become a Pirate. Any Pirate can make themselves cease to be one

by

announcement.

‍☠️ NO TATTLE-TALES

Any person who has objected to a transferral of coins from the Lost

and

Found Department to the Plundership are in Davy Jones’ Locker. A

person in

Davy Jones’ Locker cannot become a Pirate, and they immediately

cease to be

a Pirate if they already were one.

‍☠️ DOUBLOONS

Doubloons are a destructible asset that can only belong to Pirates.

When an

amount of coins is transferred to the Plundership, each Pirate

gains an

amount of Doubloons equal to the amount transferred divided by the

amount

of Pirates, rounded down. A Pirate with at least 1 Doubloon can

transfer 1

coin to themselves from the Plundership. Doing so destroys 1

Doubloon in

their possession.

‍☠️ PARLEY

Any Pirate can propose a Parley by announcement, which describes

amendments

to this contract. If at least 2/3rds (rounded up) of all Pirates

consent to

the Parley’s contents, this contract is amended according to the

Parley.


-


I become a Pirate.

I propose the following Parley:

{

Replace the last sentence (under PARLEY) with:

If a Parley was proposed at least 2 days ago, at least 2/3rds

(rounded

up) of all Pirates consent to its contents, and it has not yet been
applied, then any Pirate can apply it by announcement, causing this
contract to be amended according to it.

}

(Motivation: give players a chance to escape if 2/3 try to bind the
remaining 1/3 to unfavourable terms. I'd prefer 4 days, but starting
with 2 since it's closer to the current situation.)

- Falsifian



I consent.

--
Jason Cobb


On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 21:21, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
agora-business  wrote:

As do I.


I also consent to my Parley.

- Falsifian






--
ATMunn
future notary here :)

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3842 Assigned to R. Lee

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:25 PM Rebecca via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> I had problems with the previous Tailor (circa 2017) where I claimed
> several ribbons that I wasn't given credit for, but you're right that it's
> an overreaction, I haven't claimed many ribbons since my return.
>

I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm trying to keep a good handle on it.

> (but also remember to record my recent ribbon for winning the election, lol)

I've already got that.

>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:23 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
> agora-discussion  wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:20 PM Rebecca via agora-business
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > I claim a blue ribbon for this judgement. I have done this a MILLION
> > times
> > > i am sure but the ribbon bar STILL doesn't credit me with a blue ribbon,
> > so
> > > PLEASE take notice of this one.
> >
> >
> > I don't believe I understand the complaint because one has to claim
> > the ribbon explicitly before one gets it, but I can assure you that
> > this has been recorded.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:38 AM Rebecca 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Alright, I Fulfill the Spell! Here we go!
> > > >> >
> > > >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > > >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> > > >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > > >> >
> > > >> > AGORA SPIRIT OF THE GAME, I CALL UPON THEE, LISTEN TO ME EXCLAIM!!
> > > >> >
> > > >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > > >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> > > >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > > >> >
> > > >> > SCAMS BEGONE FROM THIS PLACE, I BANISH THEE TO THE DARK NETHER FROM
> > THE
> > > >> > WHICH YOU CAME!!
> > > >> >
> > > >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > > >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> > > >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > > >> >
> > > >> > SCAMS BE GONE AND NEVER COME BACK, BURN FOREVER, DEPART WITH THIS
> > > >> FLAME!
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > WOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOO - BOOOSHA!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The ritual has been completed.
> > > >> > The scams have been banished from THE MYSTICAL MENAGERIE.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > But, be careful, they may return. (In which case I recommend you buy
> > > >> more
> > > >> > banishment rituals).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thank you for your patronage!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > This one is easy. I judge CFJ 3842 FALSE. The question is whether the
> > > > above message altered Cuddlebeam's contract "Mystical Menagerie". It
> > could
> > > > only have done so with eir consent which is defined under rule 2519.
> > None
> > > > of the four conditions apply, Cuddlebeam hasn't publicly stated that e
> > > > agrees to amend Mystical Menagerie in the above message, the above
> > message
> > > > doesn't lead to an implication that e wanted to amend Mystical
> > Menagerie,
> > > > and the portion of that contract defining the "Scam Banishment Ritual"
> > > > certainly doesn't "clearly and unambiguously" state a mechanism for
> > > > amending itself.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > From R. Lee
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > From R. Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
> > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
> >
>
>
> --
> From R. Lee



-- 

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 8:16 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
>> No, that's not right. It is calculated from the time of the resolution of
> the intent, not the intent itself.
>
> I do intend to transfer a  victory card and also intend to transfer a
> legislative card from the Lost and Found Department to myself, both without
> objection.


I know that coins are fungible, but let's consider if they weren't for a
second.

Assume L had 3 coins: Coin A, Coin B, and Coin C, and I said "I
intend, without objection, to transfer each coin owned by the L to
myself". I think that I would clearly have only given intents for Coins
A, B, and C, even if Coin D was later transferred to L, because Coin
D wasn't a "coin owned by the L" at the time of the intent.

You're suggesting that the parameters to the actions are evaluated at
the time the intent is resolved. Consider if the Registrar said "I
intend, with notice, to deregister the person I have most recently
designated as 'The One To Be Deregistered'." I think everyone would have
a problem with that - the parameters to the action are arguably part of
specifying the action itself.

Rule 2595 requires that "[the initiator] published an announcement of
intent that unambiguously, clearly, conspicuously, and without
obfuscation specified the action to be taken and the method(s) to be
used". If the parameters can only be evaluated at the time of resolution
and not at the time of initiation, the specification arguably does not
meet that standard.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3842 Assigned to R. Lee

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

I had problems with the previous Tailor (circa 2017) where I claimed
several ribbons that I wasn't given credit for, but you're right that it's
an overreaction, I haven't claimed many ribbons since my return.

(but also remember to record my recent ribbon for winning the election, lol)

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 10:23 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
agora-discussion  wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:20 PM Rebecca via agora-business
>  wrote:
> >
> > I claim a blue ribbon for this judgement. I have done this a MILLION
> times
> > i am sure but the ribbon bar STILL doesn't credit me with a blue ribbon,
> so
> > PLEASE take notice of this one.
>
>
> I don't believe I understand the complaint because one has to claim
> the ribbon explicitly before one gets it, but I can assure you that
> this has been recorded.
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:38 AM Rebecca 
> wrote:
> >
> > > > Alright, I Fulfill the Spell! Here we go!
> > >> >
> > >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> > >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > >> >
> > >> > AGORA SPIRIT OF THE GAME, I CALL UPON THEE, LISTEN TO ME EXCLAIM!!
> > >> >
> > >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> > >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > >> >
> > >> > SCAMS BEGONE FROM THIS PLACE, I BANISH THEE TO THE DARK NETHER FROM
> THE
> > >> > WHICH YOU CAME!!
> > >> >
> > >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> > >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> > >> >
> > >> > SCAMS BE GONE AND NEVER COME BACK, BURN FOREVER, DEPART WITH THIS
> > >> FLAME!
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > WOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOO - BOOOSHA!
> > >> >
> > >> > 
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > The ritual has been completed.
> > >> > The scams have been banished from THE MYSTICAL MENAGERIE.
> > >> >
> > >> > But, be careful, they may return. (In which case I recommend you buy
> > >> more
> > >> > banishment rituals).
> > >> >
> > >> > Thank you for your patronage!
> > >>
> > >>
> > > This one is easy. I judge CFJ 3842 FALSE. The question is whether the
> > > above message altered Cuddlebeam's contract "Mystical Menagerie". It
> could
> > > only have done so with eir consent which is defined under rule 2519.
> None
> > > of the four conditions apply, Cuddlebeam hasn't publicly stated that e
> > > agrees to amend Mystical Menagerie in the above message, the above
> message
> > > doesn't lead to an implication that e wanted to amend Mystical
> Menagerie,
> > > and the portion of that contract defining the "Scam Banishment Ritual"
> > > certainly doesn't "clearly and unambiguously" state a mechanism for
> > > amending itself.
> > >
> > > --
> > > From R. Lee
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From R. Lee
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3842 Assigned to R. Lee

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:20 PM Rebecca via agora-business
 wrote:
>
> I claim a blue ribbon for this judgement. I have done this a MILLION times
> i am sure but the ribbon bar STILL doesn't credit me with a blue ribbon, so
> PLEASE take notice of this one.


I don't believe I understand the complaint because one has to claim
the ribbon explicitly before one gets it, but I can assure you that
this has been recorded.


>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:38 AM Rebecca  wrote:
>
> > > Alright, I Fulfill the Spell! Here we go!
> >> >
> >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> >> >
> >> > AGORA SPIRIT OF THE GAME, I CALL UPON THEE, LISTEN TO ME EXCLAIM!!
> >> >
> >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> >> >
> >> > SCAMS BEGONE FROM THIS PLACE, I BANISH THEE TO THE DARK NETHER FROM THE
> >> > WHICH YOU CAME!!
> >> >
> >> >  暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> >> > EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA EYA
> >> > 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈 暈
> >> >
> >> > SCAMS BE GONE AND NEVER COME BACK, BURN FOREVER, DEPART WITH THIS
> >> FLAME!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > WOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOO - BOOOSHA!
> >> >
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The ritual has been completed.
> >> > The scams have been banished from THE MYSTICAL MENAGERIE.
> >> >
> >> > But, be careful, they may return. (In which case I recommend you buy
> >> more
> >> > banishment rituals).
> >> >
> >> > Thank you for your patronage!
> >>
> >>
> > This one is easy. I judge CFJ 3842 FALSE. The question is whether the
> > above message altered Cuddlebeam's contract "Mystical Menagerie". It could
> > only have done so with eir consent which is defined under rule 2519. None
> > of the four conditions apply, Cuddlebeam hasn't publicly stated that e
> > agrees to amend Mystical Menagerie in the above message, the above message
> > doesn't lead to an implication that e wanted to amend Mystical Menagerie,
> > and the portion of that contract defining the "Scam Banishment Ritual"
> > certainly doesn't "clearly and unambiguously" state a mechanism for
> > amending itself.
> >
> > --
> > From R. Lee
> >
>
>
> --
> From R. Lee



--

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3847 found TRUE

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 8:13 PM ATMunn via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> Speaking of ribbons, do I have to wait at all or can I immediately claim
> a Blue Ribbon for this?
>

You can do it immediately.

-- 

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3847 found TRUE

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

Speaking of ribbons, do I have to wait at all or can I immediately claim
a Blue Ribbon for this?

On 6/13/2020 8:08 PM, ATMunn via agora-business wrote:

Caller's Arguments:

There's seemingly nothing stopping an impure person from Raising a 
Banner if eir ribbon ownership allows, even though e's prevented from

 winning. It's unclear whether the ribbon reset is a result of
raising the banner on its own, or whether failure to win prevents the
reset.

Caller's Evidence:

From Rule 2438/18 (Power=3) Ribbons:
While a person owns all types of Ribbon, that person can Raise a 
Banner by announcement. This causes that person to win the game. 
That person's Ribbon Ownership becomes the empty set.


From Rule 2556/1 (Power=3) Penalties:

Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, an impure person CANNOT win
the game.



Judge's Arguments:

Since the statement in rule 2438 stating that a person's Ribbon 
Ownership becomes the empty set upon Raising a Banner is not

conditional upon the preceding statement that e wins the game, one
can happen without the other. Therefore, e CANNOT win the game due to
the "Rules to the contrary notwithstanding" clause in Rule 2556, but
eir Ribbon Ownership is still reset.

As per the caller's arguments and mine, I find this CFJ TRUE.


--
ATMunn
future notary here :)

Re: DIS: timestamps

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 8:02 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:


On 6/13/2020 4:50 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:

On 2020-06-13 17:42, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:

I am the dirty fool who removed the timestamps from the report, I tend to
do that with all my offices because it doesn't seem useful and I don't have
an automated way of collecting that information or anything.


The Treasuror Reports that I copied once I got into office all had
timestamps, so I have continued the trend. I have noticed, though, that
the timestamps in Thunderbird and on the archives don't always line up
100%. I do think that having timestamps for transactions like the ones
the Treasuror tracks can be valuable, but that perfect accuracy isn't
really that important, and including them isn't that much harder anyway,
so I just do it.


Reasons to include time:

- For reports like Tresuoror it's good to order transactions - exact time
doesn't matter but sometimes you want to replay a set of transactions
while assuming one of them didn't happen.  Adding a timestamp as you go
makes them easier to keep in order but I wouldn't go back and add them.

- I know people check reports for errors (again, mostly reports with
quantities that change alot like coin balances) and if there's a possible
error it comes down to looking and seeing "is there an entry in the
report's table of transactions that matches this message in my sent mail".
  Timestamp can be the best way to match that stuff up otherwise tracking
down errors can be a bear.  Again I wouldn't go back and add but useful
going forward.



Alright. I think I will just keep them as is for the first report, but 
have them for all actions taken after the first report.


--
ATMunn
future notary here :)

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 8:06 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> They should belong to the Lost and Found Department now, right? You 
> might be able to fish out the cards if no one objects. The coins might 
> be about to go to the pirateship, since CB already intended to transfer 
> them and nobody has objected yet.


That's actually an interesting question. Rule 2576 says:

>   If an asset would otherwise lack an owner, or if its ownership
>   would otherwise be indeterminate, it is owned by the Lost and
>   Found Department.. Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the
>   Lost and Found Department can own assets of every type. Assets
>   owned by the Lost and Found Department can be transferred or
>   destroyed by any player without objection.


And Cuddlebeam said this:

> I intend, without objection, to transfer all coins belonging to the Lost
> and Found Department to The Plunder Partnership.


My reading is that Cuddlebeam only specified an intent to transfer the
coins _already in_ in the L Dept. to the Plunder Partnership, which
would mean that the new coins had no intent to transfer them, and thus
would need another w/o objection intent to be transferred out.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 6:53 PM, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:
> wait no i forgot it had 50 of my coins and my victory card and
> participation card, now i can't propose anything or win no!

They should belong to the Lost and Found Department now, right? You 
might be able to fish out the cards if no one objects. The coins might 
be about to go to the pirateship, since CB already intended to transfer 
them and nobody has objected yet.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: timestamps

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 4:50 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 2020-06-13 17:42, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:
>> I am the dirty fool who removed the timestamps from the report, I tend to
>> do that with all my offices because it doesn't seem useful and I don't have
>> an automated way of collecting that information or anything.
> 
> The Treasuror Reports that I copied once I got into office all had 
> timestamps, so I have continued the trend. I have noticed, though, that 
> the timestamps in Thunderbird and on the archives don't always line up 
> 100%. I do think that having timestamps for transactions like the ones 
> the Treasuror tracks can be valuable, but that perfect accuracy isn't 
> really that important, and including them isn't that much harder anyway, 
> so I just do it.

Reasons to include time:

- For reports like Tresuoror it's good to order transactions - exact time
doesn't matter but sometimes you want to replay a set of transactions
while assuming one of them didn't happen.  Adding a timestamp as you go
makes them easier to keep in order but I wouldn't go back and add them.

- I know people check reports for errors (again, mostly reports with
quantities that change alot like coin balances) and if there's a possible
error it comes down to looking and seeing "is there an entry in the
report's table of transactions that matches this message in my sent mail".
 Timestamp can be the best way to match that stuff up otherwise tracking
down errors can be a bear.  Again I wouldn't go back and add but useful
going forward.

DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

this is a very characteristic story of failure

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:53 AM Rebecca  wrote:

> wait no i forgot it had 50 of my coins and my victory card and
> participation card, now i can't propose anything or win no!
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:52 AM Rebecca  wrote:
>
>> Oh I didn't say it in text, I destroy "Combinotron"
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:51 AM Rebecca via agora-business <
>> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>>
>>> To absolutely nobody's surprise, I was planning to exploit a loophole to
>>> give me all of the assets anyway.
>>>
>>> --
>>> From R. Lee
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From R. Lee
>>
>
>
> --
> From R. Lee
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:53 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 6/13/20 7:50 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
> > To absolutely nobody's surprise, I was planning to exploit a loophole to
> > give me all of the assets anyway.
> >
>
> You can't take actions in the subject of a message. Also, I admit to not
> immediately seeing the exploit in the contract.
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
>
It didn't say I had to do all the actions in a Transmutocles (or whatever
the name was) in order, just in the same message. So I was just going to
transfer all the assets I'd gained first, which would be zero. Then keep
all your assets.
-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: timestamps

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 7:52 PM, ATMunn wrote:

--
--
ATMunn
future notary here :)


aahh i was trying to add a fancy signature like y'all have but i screwed 
it up


--
ATMunn
future notary here :)

DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

wait no i forgot it had 50 of my coins and my victory card and
participation card, now i can't propose anything or win no!

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:52 AM Rebecca  wrote:

> Oh I didn't say it in text, I destroy "Combinotron"
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:51 AM Rebecca via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> To absolutely nobody's surprise, I was planning to exploit a loophole to
>> give me all of the assets anyway.
>>
>> --
>> From R. Lee
>>
>
>
> --
> From R. Lee
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

DIS: Re: BUS: Fine, I destroy "Combinotron"

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 7:50 PM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
> To absolutely nobody's surprise, I was planning to exploit a loophole to
> give me all of the assets anyway.
>

You can't take actions in the subject of a message. Also, I admit to not
immediately seeing the exploit in the contract.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: timestamps

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 7:50 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:

On 2020-06-13 17:42, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:

I am the dirty fool who removed the timestamps from the report, I
tend to do that with all my offices because it doesn't seem useful
and I don't have an automated way of collecting that information or
anything.


The Treasuror Reports that I copied once I got into office all had 
timestamps, so I have continued the trend. I have noticed, though,

that the timestamps in Thunderbird and on the archives don't always
line up 100%. I do think that having timestamps for transactions like
the ones the Treasuror tracks can be valuable, but that perfect
accuracy isn't really that important, and including them isn't that
much harder anyway, so I just do it.



I always just go with the ones on the archives. I have no problem with
adding them in the future, but I just don't want to go back and redo
every single timestamp on the report up to this point if I don't have to.

Though I might get bored and do it anyway.

--
--
ATMunn
future notary here :)

Re: DIS: timestamps

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

On 2020-06-13 17:42, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:

I am the dirty fool who removed the timestamps from the report, I tend to
do that with all my offices because it doesn't seem useful and I don't have
an automated way of collecting that information or anything.


The Treasuror Reports that I copied once I got into office all had 
timestamps, so I have continued the trend. I have noticed, though, that 
the timestamps in Thunderbird and on the archives don't always line up 
100%. I do think that having timestamps for transactions like the ones 
the Treasuror tracks can be valuable, but that perfect accuracy isn't 
really that important, and including them isn't that much harder anyway, 
so I just do it.


--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

DIS: Re: BUS: [Important and Very Cool Contract] Combinotron

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

Yeah I already fixed that

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:36 AM Reuben Staley via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On 2020-06-12 23:18, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:
> > 7. Post-Transmutoramas
> > After a Transmutorama has been performed, this contract automatically
> > transfers 2 corresponding Products to the owner of each card in that
> > Transmutorama.
>
> I believe this would fail because the owner of these assets would be
> this contract. Perhaps "the player who transferred the cards to this
> contract" or something along those lines?
>
> --
> Trigon
> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> Registered Player.
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: timestamps

[Rebecca via agora-discussion]

I am the dirty fool who removed the timestamps from the report, I tend to
do that with all my offices because it doesn't seem useful and I don't have
an automated way of collecting that information or anything.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> I don't see much immediate use to the exact timestamps, personally.
>
> El sáb., 13 jun. 2020 a las 22:21, Alex Smith via agora-discussion (<
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org>) escribió:
>
> >  On Saturday, 13 June 2020, 19:06:17 GMT+1, ATMunn via agora-discussion <
> > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> > > hi, future notary here
> > >
> > > in the upcoming Notary reports, would it be useful to have exact
> > > timestamps (instead of just dates) for contract history? because of all
> > > the craziness with contracts that you guys have been doing, i would
> have
> > > to go back and find the exact timestamps for 36 different messages, but
> > > I would be willing to do that if a lot of people would find it useful.
> > > if not, though, I won't bother.
> >
> > Former Notary here. The information is slightly useful, but not very
> > useful. As such, I recommend recording it only when it's easy to record.
> >
> > Perhaps this implies that it's worth recording for future actions, but
> > there's insufficient evidence in trawling the archives for timestamps on
> > past actions.
> >
> > --
> > ais523
> >
>


-- 
>From R. Lee

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 4:39 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:

On 2020-06-13 14:36, nch via agora-discussion wrote:

On 6/13/20 3:29 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:

On 2020-06-12 18:16, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business
wrote:

-- > 
Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth


I see how it is.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
Registered Player.


What have I done.



Something beautiful.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.


truly beautiful

DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer cRoSsEs tHe VoId

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 3:55 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote:
> ⚫Pacts
>
> A Voidwalker can create a Pact by announcement and specifying its Gift and
> After-Void cost. Voidwalkers are the recordkeepors of their own Pacts, and
> the report for such recordkeeping is monthly.
>
> A Pact is a list of information with the following elements:
>
> -
>
> Creator: The person who created the Pact.
> -
>
> Gift: A set of assets
> -
>
> After-Void Cost: A set of assets
> -
>
> Debtor: A certain Voidwalker, or nobody, and it defaults to nobody
> -
>
> Void Clock: It can be silent, or ringing, and it defaults to silent.
>
>
> A Voidwalker can make themselves a Debtor to a certain Pact that has no
> Debtor, by announcement.
>
> If a Pact’s Gift is not an empty set, the Debtor to that Pact can act on
> behalf of its Creator transfer one instance of each element in the Gift set
> from the Pact’s Creator to themselves - doing so sets the Gift set to the
> empty set.
>
> If a Pact’s Void Clock is ringing, its Creator can act on behalf of its
> Debtor to transfer one instance of each element in the After-Void Cost set
> from the Pact’s Debtor to themselves - doing so then destroys the Pact
> immediately after.
>
> When all Cards and all Products are destroyed, all Pact Void Clocks are set
> to be ringing.

You might want to allow creators to destroy unclaimed pacts by 
announcement, otherwise they have to track them forever. Also, I'm not 
sure what happens if someone leaves the contract with pacts in place. 
Who is the recordkeepor then? The contract can't compel them to do the 
job...

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

> Infinite Nomic.

Let me just blatantly brag that I made someone win Infinite nomic on the
same day that I joined lol.

The story: They had been playing for months on Discord, with no winner. You
won by having a certain amount of wealth. There was an office, the
Merchant, that always earned +20% money each time they earned money. There
was a mechanic for bribing other players to vote in favor of your Proposals
(for a fixed amount of rule-dictated money), but the other player had to
accept, it was consensual - this is also the only way to transfer money. I
sent money back and forth indefinitely between myself and the Merchant,
creating cash out of thin air with each loop. Bada bing bada boom *does
cheesy finger guns*.

El sáb., 13 jun. 2020 a las 22:40, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion (<
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org>) escribió:

> On 2020-06-13 14:36, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> > On 6/13/20 3:29 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
> >> On 2020-06-12 18:16, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business
> >> wrote:
> >>> -- > 
> >>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
> >>> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
> >>
> >> I see how it is.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trigon
> >> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> >> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> >> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> >> Registered Player.
> >
> > What have I done.
> >
>
> Something beautiful.
>
> --
> Trigon
> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic;
> Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

On 2020-06-13 14:36, nch via agora-discussion wrote:

On 6/13/20 3:29 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:

On 2020-06-12 18:16, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business
wrote:

-- > 
Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth


I see how it is.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
Registered Player.


What have I done.



Something beautiful.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; 
Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 3:29 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 2020-06-12 18:16, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business
> wrote:
>> -- > 
>> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
>> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
>
> I see how it is.
>
> --
> Trigon
> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> Registered Player.

What have I done.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

Hrmmm.

--
Cuddlebeam
humble agoran farmer

El sáb., 13 jun. 2020 a las 22:29, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion (<
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org>) escribió:

> On 2020-06-12 18:16, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business
> wrote:
> > -- > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
> > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
>
>
> I see how it is.
>
> --
> Trigon
> Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and
> Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and
> Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually
> Registered Player.
>

DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[Reuben Staley via agora-discussion]

On 2020-06-12 18:16, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business 
wrote:

-- > 
Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate 
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth



I see how it is.

--
Trigon
Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and 
Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and 
Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually 
Registered Player.

Re: DIS: timestamps

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

I don't see much immediate use to the exact timestamps, personally.

El sáb., 13 jun. 2020 a las 22:21, Alex Smith via agora-discussion (<
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org>) escribió:

>  On Saturday, 13 June 2020, 19:06:17 GMT+1, ATMunn via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> > hi, future notary here
> >
> > in the upcoming Notary reports, would it be useful to have exact
> > timestamps (instead of just dates) for contract history? because of all
> > the craziness with contracts that you guys have been doing, i would have
> > to go back and find the exact timestamps for 36 different messages, but
> > I would be willing to do that if a lot of people would find it useful.
> > if not, though, I won't bother.
>
> Former Notary here. The information is slightly useful, but not very
> useful. As such, I recommend recording it only when it's easy to record.
>
> Perhaps this implies that it's worth recording for future actions, but
> there's insufficient evidence in trawling the archives for timestamps on
> past actions.
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: humble agoran farmer's birthday

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

Ah, yes. It could be a timezone issue. I'm from Spain.

El sáb., 13 jun. 2020 a las 22:16, James Cook via agora-discussion (<
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org>) escribió:

> Is that the same as this message:
>
>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-May/034726.html
>
> If so, the archives think it was sent 22:09 UTC on May 20. Could it be
> a time zone issue?
>
> - Falsifian
>
> On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 19:45, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
>  wrote:
> >
> > That message wasn't considered to be my registration iirc. This one was
> > https://i.gyazo.com/01b292873845ea08041c2d56b5596048.png
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:41 PM James Cook via agora-discussion <
> > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 16:25, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
> > >  wrote:
> > > > I was reading the rules and I found Rule 2585. My Agoran Birthday is
> May
> > > > 21st, this is me announcing this.
> > > >
> > > > Anyways, just that, cheers.
> > >
> > > Are you sure it's not May 20? I have May 20, 2017 in my monthly
> > > report, and found this:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-May/034711.html
> > >
> > > But I haven't looked too deeply, so it could be wrong if e.g. the
> > > registration turned out not to have worked or that was a different
> > > person.
> > >
> > > - Falsifian
> > >
>

Re: DIS: timestamps

[Alex Smith via agora-discussion]

 On Saturday, 13 June 2020, 19:06:17 GMT+1, ATMunn via agora-discussion 
 wrote:
> hi, future notary here
> 
> in the upcoming Notary reports, would it be useful to have exact
> timestamps (instead of just dates) for contract history? because of all
> the craziness with contracts that you guys have been doing, i would have
> to go back and find the exact timestamps for 36 different messages, but
> I would be willing to do that if a lot of people would find it useful.
> if not, though, I won't bother.

Former Notary here. The information is slightly useful, but not very useful. As 
such, I recommend recording it only when it's easy to record.

Perhaps this implies that it's worth recording for future actions, but there's 
insufficient evidence in trawling the archives for timestamps on past actions.

-- 
ais523  

Re: DIS: humble agoran farmer's birthday

[James Cook via agora-discussion]

Is that the same as this message:

https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-May/034726.html

If so, the archives think it was sent 22:09 UTC on May 20. Could it be
a time zone issue?

- Falsifian

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 19:45, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> That message wasn't considered to be my registration iirc. This one was
> https://i.gyazo.com/01b292873845ea08041c2d56b5596048.png
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:41 PM James Cook via agora-discussion <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 16:25, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
> >  wrote:
> > > I was reading the rules and I found Rule 2585. My Agoran Birthday is May
> > > 21st, this is me announcing this.
> > >
> > > Anyways, just that, cheers.
> >
> > Are you sure it's not May 20? I have May 20, 2017 in my monthly
> > report, and found this:
> >
> >
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-May/034711.html
> >
> > But I haven't looked too deeply, so it could be wrong if e.g. the
> > registration turned out not to have worked or that was a different
> > person.
> >
> > - Falsifian
> >

DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Exchange Manager's Report (ATTN: Treasuror)

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 2:46 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> considering I did things wrong, can I get a refund on my 30 coins?

You sent your original join and order to a-d, so none of it happened 
because it wasn't sent to a Public fora.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Exchange Manager's Report (ATTN: Treasuror)

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

or... does my order still exist? i'm confused lol, sorry

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:46 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> considering I did things wrong, can I get a refund on my 30 coins?
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 3:29 PM nch via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > This is the NAX Weekly Report
> >
> > {
> >
> > Outstanding Orders
> > -
> >
> > Order 0
> > - Creater: nch
> > - Goods: 10 coins
> > - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
> >
> > Order 1
> > - Creater: nch
> > - Goods: 20 coins
> > - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
> >
> > Order 3
> > - Creater: CuddleBeam
> > - Goods: 30 coins
> > - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer 1 Victory card to NAX"
> >
> > Order History
> > 
> >
> > Order 2
> > - Creater: nch
> > - Goods: 30 coins
> > - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
> > - Fulfiller: Jason
> >
> > }
> >
> > The Purse of NAX is 5. I transfer 5 coins from NAX to myself, making
> > the Purse 0.
> >
> > Below is the entire NAX contract, for convenience
> >
> > {
> >
> > Contract: Needlessly Abstract Exchange
> >
> > PART I: Definitions
> >
> > The Needlessly Abstract Exchange (also known as NAX) is a contract which
> > facilitates trading among Agorans by providing a fair third party to
> > manage assets mid-trade.
> >
> > Any party to this contract is a trader. Any player CAN become or cease
> > to be a party to this contract by announcement.
> >
> > The Exchange Manager is a title belonging to a specific trader. If there
> > is no Exchange Manager or the Exchange Manager would be an entity that
> > is not a trader, the entity that has been a trader for the longest
> > (continuously) becomes the Exchange Manager.
> >
> > The Purse is an integer. If the value of The Purse is indeterminate or
> > ambiguous, it becomes 0.
> >
> > An Order represents a trade. Orders have a Creater, a Fulfiller, Goods,
> > Fullfillment Conditions, and may have an Expiration Condition (if none
> > is specified, an order has no Expiration Condition). Goods is a list of
> > assets, and Fulfillment Conditions can be any text that describes or
> > could at some point describe any combination of assets, actions, or
> > other conditions. Orders may be closed, pending, or open and are open
> > when created.
> >
> > PART II: The Trading Fee, Order Creation, and Order Fulfillment
> >
> > For every order a trader Creates or Fulfills, e must first pay 1 coin to
> > this contract (not as part of an order creation or fulfillment) in the
> > same message; otherwise it is INEFFECTIVE. For every coin paid to the
> > contract this way the Purse is increased by 1.
> >
> > Any trader CAN create an order by transferring any (non-zero) number of
> > assets to this contract, specifying Fulfillment Conditions, and
> > optionally specifying Expiration Conditions. E becomes the Creator of
> > the order, and all assets paid become the Goods of the order.
> >
> > Any trader CAN fulfill a specified open order by announcement, and by
> > additionally transferring any number of assets to the contract,
> > specifying any actions e does in the same message, and specifying any
> > other evidence e has successfully fulfilled the order. The order becomes
> > pending and e becomes the Fulfiller of the order.
> >
> > PART III: Resolving Orders
> >
> > For each pending order, the Exchange Manager CAN and SHALL, in a timely
> > fashion and by announcement, declare the fulfillment Successful or
> > Unsuccessful. E SHALL only declare the fulfillment Successful if e
> > believes the Fulfillment Conditions have been met and SHALL NOT declare
> > the Unsuccessful unless e believes the Fulfillment Conditions have not
> > been met.
> >
> > When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment Successful, e CAN and
> > SHALL transfer the Goods of the order from this contract to the
> > Fulfiller and transfer any assets that were transferred to the contract
> > as part of the fulfillment to the Creater of the order. The order
> > becomes closed.
> >
> > When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment Unsuccessful, e CAN and
> > SHALL transfer any assets that were transferred to the contract as part
> > of the fulfillment to the Fulfiller. E CAN also transfer 1 coin from
> > this contract to the Fulfiller; if e does so the Purse is decreased by
> > 1. When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment unsuccessful. the
> > order becomes open.
> >
> > PART IV: Annulling and Refunding Orders
> >
> > To annul an order is to transfer all Goods from the order to its
> > creater. When an order is annulled it becomes closed. Only an open order
> > can be annulled.
> >
> > To refund an order is to annul an order and to transfer 1 coin from this
> > contract to the order's creater. When an order is refunded the Purse is
> > decreased by 1.
> >
> > The Exchange Manager CAN annul an order by announcement when it 

DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Exchange Manager's Report (ATTN: Treasuror)

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

considering I did things wrong, can I get a refund on my 30 coins?

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 3:29 PM nch via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> This is the NAX Weekly Report
>
> {
>
> Outstanding Orders
> -
>
> Order 0
> - Creater: nch
> - Goods: 10 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
>
> Order 1
> - Creater: nch
> - Goods: 20 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
>
> Order 3
> - Creater: CuddleBeam
> - Goods: 30 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer 1 Victory card to NAX"
>
> Order History
> 
>
> Order 2
> - Creater: nch
> - Goods: 30 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
> - Fulfiller: Jason
>
> }
>
> The Purse of NAX is 5. I transfer 5 coins from NAX to myself, making
> the Purse 0.
>
> Below is the entire NAX contract, for convenience
>
> {
>
> Contract: Needlessly Abstract Exchange
>
> PART I: Definitions
>
> The Needlessly Abstract Exchange (also known as NAX) is a contract which
> facilitates trading among Agorans by providing a fair third party to
> manage assets mid-trade.
>
> Any party to this contract is a trader. Any player CAN become or cease
> to be a party to this contract by announcement.
>
> The Exchange Manager is a title belonging to a specific trader. If there
> is no Exchange Manager or the Exchange Manager would be an entity that
> is not a trader, the entity that has been a trader for the longest
> (continuously) becomes the Exchange Manager.
>
> The Purse is an integer. If the value of The Purse is indeterminate or
> ambiguous, it becomes 0.
>
> An Order represents a trade. Orders have a Creater, a Fulfiller, Goods,
> Fullfillment Conditions, and may have an Expiration Condition (if none
> is specified, an order has no Expiration Condition). Goods is a list of
> assets, and Fulfillment Conditions can be any text that describes or
> could at some point describe any combination of assets, actions, or
> other conditions. Orders may be closed, pending, or open and are open
> when created.
>
> PART II: The Trading Fee, Order Creation, and Order Fulfillment
>
> For every order a trader Creates or Fulfills, e must first pay 1 coin to
> this contract (not as part of an order creation or fulfillment) in the
> same message; otherwise it is INEFFECTIVE. For every coin paid to the
> contract this way the Purse is increased by 1.
>
> Any trader CAN create an order by transferring any (non-zero) number of
> assets to this contract, specifying Fulfillment Conditions, and
> optionally specifying Expiration Conditions. E becomes the Creator of
> the order, and all assets paid become the Goods of the order.
>
> Any trader CAN fulfill a specified open order by announcement, and by
> additionally transferring any number of assets to the contract,
> specifying any actions e does in the same message, and specifying any
> other evidence e has successfully fulfilled the order. The order becomes
> pending and e becomes the Fulfiller of the order.
>
> PART III: Resolving Orders
>
> For each pending order, the Exchange Manager CAN and SHALL, in a timely
> fashion and by announcement, declare the fulfillment Successful or
> Unsuccessful. E SHALL only declare the fulfillment Successful if e
> believes the Fulfillment Conditions have been met and SHALL NOT declare
> the Unsuccessful unless e believes the Fulfillment Conditions have not
> been met.
>
> When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment Successful, e CAN and
> SHALL transfer the Goods of the order from this contract to the
> Fulfiller and transfer any assets that were transferred to the contract
> as part of the fulfillment to the Creater of the order. The order
> becomes closed.
>
> When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment Unsuccessful, e CAN and
> SHALL transfer any assets that were transferred to the contract as part
> of the fulfillment to the Fulfiller. E CAN also transfer 1 coin from
> this contract to the Fulfiller; if e does so the Purse is decreased by
> 1. When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment unsuccessful. the
> order becomes open.
>
> PART IV: Annulling and Refunding Orders
>
> To annul an order is to transfer all Goods from the order to its
> creater. When an order is annulled it becomes closed. Only an open order
> can be annulled.
>
> To refund an order is to annul an order and to transfer 1 coin from this
> contract to the order's creater. When an order is refunded the Purse is
> decreased by 1.
>
> The Exchange Manager CAN annul an order by announcement when it would be
> impossible to ever fulfill the order or when the expiration conditions
> of the order have been met.
>
> The Exchange Manager CAN refund an order:
>
> * whenever that order could be annulled. E SHOULD do this instead of
> just annul if e believes the order contains an error, such as a typo or
> misunderstanding of the contract or rules.
>
> * if the Creater of the order has made more than 2 orders 

Re: DIS: humble agoran farmer's birthday

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

That message wasn't considered to be my registration iirc. This one was
https://i.gyazo.com/01b292873845ea08041c2d56b5596048.png

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:41 PM James Cook via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 16:25, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
>  wrote:
> > I was reading the rules and I found Rule 2585. My Agoran Birthday is May
> > 21st, this is me announcing this.
> >
> > Anyways, just that, cheers.
>
> Are you sure it's not May 20? I have May 20, 2017 in my monthly
> report, and found this:
>
>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-May/034711.html
>
> But I haven't looked too deeply, so it could be wrong if e.g. the
> registration turned out not to have worked or that was a different
> person.
>
> - Falsifian
>

Re: DIS: humble agoran farmer's birthday

[James Cook via agora-discussion]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 at 16:25, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
 wrote:
> I was reading the rules and I found Rule 2585. My Agoran Birthday is May
> 21st, this is me announcing this.
>
> Anyways, just that, cheers.

Are you sure it's not May 20? I have May 20, 2017 in my monthly
report, and found this:

https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-May/034711.html

But I haven't looked too deeply, so it could be wrong if e.g. the
registration turned out not to have worked or that was a different
person.

- Falsifian

DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Exchange Manager's Report (ATTN: Treasuror)

[nch via agora-discussion]

Corrections follow.

On 6/13/20 8:28 AM, nch via agora-business wrote:
> {
>
> Outstanding Orders
> -
>
> Order 0
> - Creater: nch
> - Goods: 10 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
>
> Order 1
> - Creater: nch
> - Goods: 20 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
>
> Order 3
> - Creater: CuddleBeam
> - Goods: 30 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer 1 Victory card to NAX"
This Order does not exist because CuddleBeam is not a trader.
>
> Order History
> 
>
> Order 2
> - Creater: nch
> - Goods: 30 coins
> - Fulfillment Conditions: "Transfer any card to NAX."
> - Fulfiller: Jason
>
> }
>
> The Purse of NAX is 5. I transfer 5 coins from NAX to myself, making
> the Purse 0.
This fails because the Purse is 4, not 5 due to Order 3 never being made.


-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJs 3831 and 3838 judged TRUE

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 9:52 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> First of all, I think I should address a potential conflict of
> interest with respect to CFJ 3831, that I am the recipient of the
> karma in Murphy's message. I don't believe this represents a conflict
> of interest because Murphy has subsequently acted to ensure that I
> will receive this karma once and only once regardless of whether this
> is found to have been effective. With regards to this, I also note
> that the Honorable Arbitor did not view this as a conflict of interest
> for the purposes of assignment and I was not barred from being the
> judge by the caller, Aris, so others also seem to view this conflict
> of interest as nonexistent. Now, let's get to the fun part!

Just on this point, when starting the moot I noticed that all the relevant
records had been allowed to self-ratify before you were assigned the case
(during the time that Alexis's first judgement remained un-mooted), so
this judgement has no practical effect therefore no self-interest.

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3845 Assigned to Aris

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

Oh oops (my workflow was briefly interrupted and I lost my place).  Second
one should do nothing.

On 6/13/2020 11:37 AM, ATMunn via agora-discussion wrote:
> This was sent twice for some reason.
> 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3845 Assigned to Aris

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

This was sent twice for some reason.

On 6/13/2020 2:35 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-official wrote:

The below CFJ is 3845.  I assign it to Aris.

status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3845

===  CFJ 3845  ===

   On or about 16 May 2020, CFJ 3835 became G.

==

Caller:Jason

Judge: Aris

==

History:

Called by Jason:  12 Jun 2020 02:08:56
Assigned to Aris: [now]

==

Caller's Arguments:

This may sound stupid (and, in fact, it is), but the terminology is
enshrined in Rule 2162/13, with power=3:


   "To flip an instance of a switch" is to make it come to have a
   given value. "To become X" (where X is a possible value of
   exactly one of the subject's switches) is to flip that switch to
   X.



The only switch possessed by CFJs is Judge which, per Rule 991/31, has
possible values of any person or "unassigned". Because Judge is CFJ
3835's only switch, each of Judge's possible values is the value of
exactly one of CFJ 3835's switches. Thus, Rule 2162 says that the
statement of this CFJ is true.

==

Re: DIS: Talismans (hopefully) final draft

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 11:26 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 2:18 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>> Hmm - I missed that implication and it's a point against voting for it, I
>> think.  It would be nice if we didn't try to change any gameplay aspects
>> other than the mechanics of transfer and left actual game play decisions
>> to other proposals.  I think it's good to have an explicit CANNOT list
>> that we have to consciously modify rather than accidentally adding
>> abilities elsewhere if we word them too generally.
>>
> 
> Fair point about changing mechanics (and I'll rephrase my local copy to
> do that), but if the goal is to protect from accidental abilities, then
> I don't quite see how explicitly limiting only masters and zombies is
> sufficient protection.

Appreciated, tho maybe I'm just being over-cautious it's probably not
enough on its own for me to vote against

Re: DIS: Talismans (hopefully) final draft

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 2:18 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
> Hmm - I missed that implication and it's a point against voting for it, I
> think.  It would be nice if we didn't try to change any gameplay aspects
> other than the mechanics of transfer and left actual game play decisions
> to other proposals.  I think it's good to have an explicit CANNOT list
> that we have to consciously modify rather than accidentally adding
> abilities elsewhere if we word them too generally.
>

Fair point about changing mechanics (and I'll rephrase my local copy to
do that), but if the goal is to protect from accidental abilities, then
I don't quite see how explicitly limiting only masters and zombies is
sufficient protection.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Talismans (hopefully) final draft

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 11:10 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 2:07 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
>>  wrote:
>>> The master of a player CAN act on behalf of em to perform any action
>>> except the following:
>> You need to keep the word "zombie" in the above sentence somewhere,
>> otherwise this stops a person who is their own master from acting on
>> eir own behalf to do these things.
> 
> 
> Fixed, but the goal with that phrasing was to permit other rules from
> allowing acting-on-behalf to perfom those things. The current phrasing
> in the rule prohibits a master acting on behalf of eir zombie to do
> things in the list even if it would otherwise be permitted by a
> different rule (modulo precedence). The goal with the draft phrasing was
> to simply not provide a method for the things in the list, rather than
> outright prohibiting it.
> 

Hmm - I missed that implication and it's a point against voting for it, I
think.  It would be nice if we didn't try to change any gameplay aspects
other than the mechanics of transfer and left actual game play decisions
to other proposals.  I think it's good to have an explicit CANNOT list
that we have to consciously modify rather than accidentally adding
abilities elsewhere if we word them too generally.

Re: DIS: Talismans (hopefully) final draft

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 2:07 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
>  wrote:
>> The master of a player CAN act on behalf of em to perform any action
>> except the following:
> You need to keep the word "zombie" in the above sentence somewhere,
> otherwise this stops a person who is their own master from acting on
> eir own behalf to do these things.


Fixed, but the goal with that phrasing was to permit other rules from
allowing acting-on-behalf to perfom those things. The current phrasing
in the rule prohibits a master acting on behalf of eir zombie to do
things in the list even if it would otherwise be permitted by a
different rule (modulo precedence). The goal with the draft phrasing was
to simply not provide a method for the things in the list, rather than
outright prohibiting it.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Talismans (hopefully) final draft

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:01 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion
 wrote:
> The master of a player CAN act on behalf of em to perform any action
> except the following:

You need to keep the word "zombie" in the above sentence somewhere,
otherwise this stops a person who is their own master from acting on
eir own behalf to do these things.

DIS: timestamps

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

hi, future notary here

in the upcoming Notary reports, would it be useful to have exact
timestamps (instead of just dates) for contract history? because of all
the craziness with contracts that you guys have been doing, i would have
to go back and find the exact timestamps for 36 different messages, but
I would be willing to do that if a lot of people would find it useful.
if not, though, I won't bother.

DIS: Talismans (hopefully) final draft

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

Now that auction reform has passed, I plan to propose this soon so that
it can be tried in the July zombie auction:

Title: Talismans
Adoption index: 3.0
Coauthors: nch, Falsifian

{

For the purposes of this proposal, a player's prior master is eir master
before this proposal applies any effects.

Amend Rule 2532 to read, in whole:
{

A talisman is an indestructible asset, tracked by the Registrar, and
with ownership wholly restricted to players and Agora. There exists
exactly one talisman for each player, and no other talismans; if one
does not exist for a certain player, it is created in eir posession.
Talismans CAN only be transferred as explicitly specified by the rules.
The creation, destruction, and transfer of talismans is secured.

Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a player CAN, by announcement,
transfer the talisman for em to emself. The master of a player is the
entity that possesses the talisman for em. A player who is eir own
master is active; any other player is a zombie (syn. inactive).

The master of a player CAN act on behalf of em to perform any action
except the following:
    - initiate, support, object to, or perform a dependent action;
    - act on behalf of that zombie's zombies;
    - bid in a zombie auction;
    - enter a contract, pledge, or other type of agreement;
    - initiate a Call for Judgement;
    - create blots;
    - deregister.

If a master causes a zombie to perform an ILLEGAL action, the master
commits the Class 4+N Crime of Masterminding (where N is the class of
the illegal action).

If an active player who was a zombie has not received a Welcome Package
since e most recently ceased being a zombie, and if eir resale value was
less than 2 at any point during eir most recent time as a zombie, then
any player CAN cause em to receive a Welcome Package by announcement.

}

Amend Rule 2574 to read, in whole:
{

Any player CAN, with notice, transfer the talisman for an active player
who has not made a public announcement in the past 60 days to Agora.

Resale value is a secured natural switch for zombies, tracked by the
Registrar, with a default value of 2. Whenever the talisman for a zombie
is transferred to a player, that zombie's resale value is decreased by
1. At the end of a zombie auction, the resale value of every zombie that
is an excess lot in that auction decreases by 1.

The talisman of a zombie with zero resale value CANNOT be transferred to
any player other than that zombie.

Any player CAN, with notice:
    - If a zombie has been a zombie for the past 90 days and not had
Agora for a master during any of that time, transfer the talisman for em
to Agora;
    - If a player possesses more than one talisman, specify and transfer
one of those talismans to Agora;
    - Deregister a zombie whose resale value is zero and whose master is
Agora.

The Registrar SHALL track the date for each zombie on which Agora was
most recently eir master. The Registrar SHALL perform all POSSIBLE
actions in the preceding paragraph in a timely fashion after first
reporting their possibility via the facts in eir weekly report.

}


Amend Rule 1885 to read, in whole:
{

Whenever a zombie has Agora for a master and has a resale value greater
than 0, and when eir talisman is not currently a lot in an auction and
has not been won as an auction lot in the past 14 days, then the
Registrar CAN put that zombie (along with any other zombies that fulfill
the same conditions) up for auction.

In a timely fashion after the beginning of each month, the Registrar
SHALL either initiate such an auction or, if no zombies meeting these
conditions existed at the beginning of the month, announce that no such
auction is necessary.

For such an auction, each lot consists of the talisman for one zombie,
ordered at the discretion of the Registrar. The Registrar is the
announcer, and the minimum bid is 1. The method to be used for this
auction is the zombie auction method if such a method exists, or
otherwise the default auction method.

}

Amend Rule 2575 by replacing the final sentence with
"Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the talisman for the Distributor
is possessed by emself, and e CANNOT deregister or be deregistered."

For each player who is not eir own prior master, transfer the talisman
for em to eir prior master.

}

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Important and Very Cool Contract] Combinotron

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

hi, future notary here

you have no parties to your contract so you can just amend it

On 6/13/2020 4:08 AM, Rebecca via agora-business wrote:

I intend to amend that contract by replacing paragraph  7 with

{After a Transmutorama has been performed, the Aggregator SHALL randomly
select two cards in that Transmutorama. After e does, the owners of those
two cards CAN transfer 3  corresponding Products to emselves, and the
owners of the other two cards CAN transfer 2 corresponding products to
emselves.}

Also please join this contract, lol. It's literally just more efficient in
every case than the actual rules-based exchange.




On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 5:04 PM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:


On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:19 PM Rebecca via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:


So here's the thing. If you have 4 cards of one type, you can create 10
Products, at a gold efficiency of 2.5. But with the following contract,
which I create, ANYONE can get a gold efficiency of (on average) 2.5 with
just ONE card, and I'll throw in coins to sweeten the deal, meaning it's
still optimal to use the Combinotron with four cards.

{Title: Combinotron

1. The Aggregator.
The Aggregator is a contract-defined office, to be held originally by R.
Lee. If R. Lee does not perform eir duties under this contract, any other
party may deputise for the Aggregator in the same way they may deputise

for

elected offices under the ruleset.

2.  Assets
The Combinotron can hold coins, Cards of any type, and Products of any
type. IMPORTANT: Any player may transfer any number of Cards and coins to
the Combinotron at any time, but Products may only be transferred to it

as

defined later.

3. Reporting
The Aggregator SHALL publish a weekly report detailing all assets held by
the Combinotron, as well as who gave each card the Combinotron holds to

the

Combinotron.

4. Becoming a party
Any player may become a party of the Combinotron. This gives you voting
rights, but you don't have to be a party to give assets or take them from
the Combinotron, although players only gain assets from the Combinotron

in

accordance with its rules.

5. Combination Procedure
Whenever the Combinotron holds 4 or more cards of the same type, the
Aggregator CAN and timely SHALL perform a valid Transmutorama with the
earliest four cards of that type that were transferred to the Combinotron
that the Combinotron still owns

6. Transmutoramas
To perform a Transmutorama is to do the following actions, all in the

same

message. It is INVALID to perform one or more of these actions if all

three

are not performed in the same message
(1): Transfer the 4 cards that are part of the Transmutorama from the
Combinotron to the Aggregator
(2) The Aggregator pays those 4 cards to acquire 10 Products of the
corresponding type
(3): The Aggregator deposits any Products e has acquired from this
Transmutorama back into the Combinitron

7. Post-Transmutoramas
After a Transmutorama has been performed, this contract automatically
transfers 2 corresponding Products to the owner of each card in that
Transmutorama. Then, the Aggregator, within one hour of the

Transmutorama,

SHALL randomly select two cards that were in the Transmutorama. After e
does, this contract automatically transfers 1 corresponding Product to

the

owners of those cards.



Too tired to explain in full, but contracts aren't allowed to do automatic
transfers.

-Aris

DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Amendment: Fixing Fulfillment and Mess Cleaning

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

On 6/12/2020 9:24 PM, nch via agora-business wrote:

On 6/12/20 6:32 PM, nch via agora-business wrote:

I submit and consent to the following amendment for NAX, which I will
enact with consent from a simple majority of NAX members:

-

Replace "Part I" with "PART I"

[I just noticed the first two parts don't follow the style of the other
parts].

Replace all the text in Part II with

{

PART II: The Trading Fee, Order Creation, and Order Fulfillment

For every order a trader Creates or Fulfills, e must first pay 1 coin to
this contract (not as part of an order creation or fulfillment) in the
same message; otherwise it is INEFFECTIVE. For every coin paid to the
contract this way the Purse is increased by 1.

Any trader CAN create an order by transferring any (non-zero) number of
assets to this contract, specifying Fulfillment Conditions, and
optionally specifying Expiration Conditions. E becomes the Creator of
the order, and all assets paid become the Goods of the order.

Any trader CAN fulfill a specified open order by announcement, and by
additionally transferring any number of assets to the contract,
specifying any actions e does in the same message, and specifying any
other evidence e has successfully fulfilled the order. The order becomes
pending and e becomes the Fulfiller of the order.

}

[All I did was change the title, replace "attempt to fulfill" with
"fulfill", and change the word 'paying' to 'transferring' in the create
and fulfill paragraphs. This part worked correctly, it was just
confusing.]

Replace all the text in PART III with

{

PART III: Resolving Orders

For each pending order, the Exchange Manager CAN and SHALL, in a timely
fashion and by announcement, declare the fulfillment Successful or
Unsuccessful. E SHALL only declare the fulfillment Successful if e
believes the Fulfillment Conditions have been met and SHALL NOT declare
the Unsuccessful unless e believes the Fulfillment Conditions have not
been met.

When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment Successful, e CAN and
SHALL transfer the Goods of the order from this contract to the
Fulfiller and transfer any assets that were transferred to the contract
as part of the fulfillment to the Creater of the order. The order
becomes closed.

When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment Unsuccessful, e CAN and
SHALL transfer any assets that were transferred to the contract as part
of the fulfillment to the Fulfiller. E CAN also transfer 1 coin from
this contract to the Fulfiller; if e does so the Purse is decreased by
1. When the Exchange Manager declares a fulfillment unsuccessful. the
order becomes open.

}

[Added "CAN and SHALL" to the first paragraph, changed "attempt to
fulfill" to "fulfillment", added an option for the Exchange Manager to
refund the fulfiller's 1 coin when unsuccessful.]

Append the following

{

PART VIII: Cleaning Messes

If this contract owns an asset not associated with an order, the
exchange manager CAN transfer that asset to the entity who transferred
the asset to the contract. If the entity that did so cannot own the
asset, e CAN transfer it to the Lost and Found Department.

}

[Let's me give Jason's Card back so the fulfillment can be done
properly, and also fix this when it happens again.]

-

--
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate



Having the consent of 3 traders (myself, PSS, and Jason) out of 5
(CuddleBeam, ATMunn) I make the above changes. As Exchange Master I
transfer the Voting Card, which is not associated with any orders, from
NAX back to Jason.



hi future notary here

Cuddlebeam is not a trader, eir message saying that e joined was NttPF.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [NAX] Setting Prices

[ATMunn via agora-discussion]

NttPF

On 6/12/2020 6:35 PM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote:

I join NAX

I pay 1 coin to NAX

I transfer 30 coins to the NAX to create an order, specifying the
fulfillment condition of "transfer 1 Victory card to NAX".


On Saturday, June 13, 2020, nch via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:


On 6/12/20 5:20 PM, Cuddle Beam wrote:

I'd like to put up a trade too of me giving people 30 coins for 1
victory card, on NAX. How should I do it?
(thats how NAX works, yes?)


You pay 1 coin to NAX to make an order, then you transfer the 30 coins
and specify the fulfillment condition as "transfer 1 victory card to NAX".

--
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJs 3831 and 3838 judged TRUE

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 1:04 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
>
> On 6/13/2020 9:52 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> > In CFJ 1500, the Court found that words should be
> > interpreted by their common language definition after a definition in
> > the rules has been overturned. The Court presently believes that this
> > is somewhat misguided: while the common language definition should be
> > used in any interpretation, the past definition in the rules and its
> > historical usage within Agora should also be looked at, where
> > reasonable, as part of the game custom criterion.
>
> I'm very concerned about this bit and considering a motion.  This greatly
> expands the scope of what we have to remember about past rules, greatly
> reduces clarity to new players, and considering there's many common terms
> that we drag into rules-definitions (e.g. "refer" or whatever) they should
> revert really quickly to common definitions when removed from the rules.
>
> Shiny was removed from the ruleset in early 2018.  That's two years.
> What's the limit?
>
> -G.
>

I thought that might be controversial. I think that the limit is the
point at which almost no one remembers the definition. Here, the
context and the recency both implied the definition. In the instance
of "refer", as long as we don't leave the mechanic after returning the
definition, it will almost immediately return to solely its common
language definition.

-- 

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJs 3831 and 3838 judged TRUE

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 9:52 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> In CFJ 1500, the Court found that words should be
> interpreted by their common language definition after a definition in
> the rules has been overturned. The Court presently believes that this
> is somewhat misguided: while the common language definition should be
> used in any interpretation, the past definition in the rules and its
> historical usage within Agora should also be looked at, where
> reasonable, as part of the game custom criterion. 

I'm very concerned about this bit and considering a motion.  This greatly
expands the scope of what we have to remember about past rules, greatly
reduces clarity to new players, and considering there's many common terms
that we drag into rules-definitions (e.g. "refer" or whatever) they should
revert really quickly to common definitions when removed from the rules.

Shiny was removed from the ruleset in early 2018.  That's two years.
What's the limit?

-G.

Re: DIS: zombie auctions broken again

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 12:38 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
> There was a Talisman proto floating around (turning zombie ownership to
> being asset-based) that I assumed was in the offing, which helped a lot
> not having to worry about putting switch language in auctions.  I lost
> track of whether that was actually submitted, but consider it a fair
> warning for July's auction, if not (halfway through the month so it should
> be submitted soon it a July zombie auction is wanted).


Right, I'll polish that up. I was waiting for the auction changes to get
through so that the rules didn't get into some crazy broken state.

-- 
Jason Cobb

DIS: zombie auctions broken again

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

Ok, not talking about the most recently-completed auction this time!  But
the upcoming ones.

The new auction rule purposefully took out the concept of auctioning the
ability to flip a master switch.  It's restricted to auctioning assets
only now.

There was a Talisman proto floating around (turning zombie ownership to
being asset-based) that I assumed was in the offing, which helped a lot
not having to worry about putting switch language in auctions.  I lost
track of whether that was actually submitted, but consider it a fair
warning for July's auction, if not (halfway through the month so it should
be submitted soon it a July zombie auction is wanted).

-G.

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 9:21 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 11:18 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>>
>> On 6/13/2020 9:13 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>>> On 6/13/20 10:01 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
 On 6/13/2020 3:43 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote:
> So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
> see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
> people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
> mechanical perks).
 I'm totally on board with zombie auction pools, but I also wanted to
 mention that, in Sets and related protos, there was the intent bring in
 auctions for cards so coins had multiple uses - that part was taken out of
 Sets because auctions were broken, but I think there's a proposal in the
 pool already to put it back in? (and if not, probably soon).

 -G.

>>> I don't think there is but I'll gladly write one today if there's no
>>> proposals currently up for vote that change how auctions work.
>>>
>> Went back and checked, in my flurry of proposals I stuck this one in
>> (couldn't remember if it was a proposal or just a proto):
>>
>> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-June/043201.html
>>
>> If you want to take a different tack I don't mind withdrawing it.
>> I didn't see any auction-changing proposals go into the pool but who knows
>> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>
> Looks good except, does that implicit creation of a new Victory Card 
> actually work?
> 

Dunno!  it's in the new auction rule (R2545):
> If the authorization is to auction "new" items, it further
>  authorizes the creation of said items as per the chosen method.

That applies a CAN to the card's creation without an explicit method for
creation, I think the regulations the auctioneer uses might have to define
the method?  And whether they have the ability to do so is part of the
experiment I suppose...

DIS: humble agoran farmer's birthday

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

I was reading the rules and I found Rule 2585. My Agoran Birthday is May
21st, this is me announcing this.

Anyways, just that, cheers.

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 11:18 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>
> On 6/13/2020 9:13 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
>> On 6/13/20 10:01 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>>> On 6/13/2020 3:43 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote:
 So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
 see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
 people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
 mechanical perks).
>>> I'm totally on board with zombie auction pools, but I also wanted to
>>> mention that, in Sets and related protos, there was the intent bring in
>>> auctions for cards so coins had multiple uses - that part was taken out of
>>> Sets because auctions were broken, but I think there's a proposal in the
>>> pool already to put it back in? (and if not, probably soon).
>>>
>>> -G.
>>>
>> I don't think there is but I'll gladly write one today if there's no
>> proposals currently up for vote that change how auctions work.
>>
> Went back and checked, in my flurry of proposals I stuck this one in
> (couldn't remember if it was a proposal or just a proto):
>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-June/043201.html
>
> If you want to take a different tack I don't mind withdrawing it.
> I didn't see any auction-changing proposals go into the pool but who knows
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>
Looks good except, does that implicit creation of a new Victory Card 
actually work?

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 9:13 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote:
> On 6/13/20 10:01 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>>
>> On 6/13/2020 3:43 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote:
>>> So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
>>> see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
>>> people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
>>> mechanical perks).
>> I'm totally on board with zombie auction pools, but I also wanted to
>> mention that, in Sets and related protos, there was the intent bring in
>> auctions for cards so coins had multiple uses - that part was taken out of
>> Sets because auctions were broken, but I think there's a proposal in the
>> pool already to put it back in? (and if not, probably soon).
>>
>> -G.
>>
> I don't think there is but I'll gladly write one today if there's no 
> proposals currently up for vote that change how auctions work.
> 

Went back and checked, in my flurry of proposals I stuck this one in
(couldn't remember if it was a proposal or just a proto):

https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-June/043201.html

If you want to take a different tack I don't mind withdrawing it.
I didn't see any auction-changing proposals go into the pool but who knows
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[nch via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 10:01 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote:
>
> On 6/13/2020 3:43 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote:
>> So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
>> see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
>> people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
>> mechanical perks).
> I'm totally on board with zombie auction pools, but I also wanted to
> mention that, in Sets and related protos, there was the intent bring in
> auctions for cards so coins had multiple uses - that part was taken out of
> Sets because auctions were broken, but I think there's a proposal in the
> pool already to put it back in? (and if not, probably soon).
>
> -G.
>
I don't think there is but I'll gladly write one today if there's no 
proposals currently up for vote that change how auctions work.

-- 
nch
Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/2020 3:43 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote:
> So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
> see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
> people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
> mechanical perks).

I'm totally on board with zombie auction pools, but I also wanted to
mention that, in Sets and related protos, there was the intent bring in
auctions for cards so coins had multiple uses - that part was taken out of
Sets because auctions were broken, but I think there's a proposal in the
pool already to put it back in? (and if not, probably soon).

-G.

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Webmastor] Agora OnLine

[Jason Cobb via agora-discussion]

On 6/13/20 12:56 AM, Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote:
>> With the current concerns about the Internet Archive being sued out
>> existence, we may want to start archiving everything nomic-related on
>> the Wayback Machine.
>>
>> --
>> Jason Cobb
>>
>>
> We don't use copyrighted material.


Even if that's true, if the IA is bankrupted, the Wayback Machine could
be taken down with it. This is very clearly the absolute worst case
scenario, but we might want to prepare for it anyway.

-- 
Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

I think you can bid more money than you actually have, maybe that can come
into play, or transfers right before you need to pay to win the auction? no
idea.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 1:00 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via
agora-discussion  wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 6:44 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
>  wrote:
> >
> > So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
> > see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
> > people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
> > mechanical perks).
> >
> > Of course, since there doesn't seem to be any significant purely
> mechanical
> > reason to keep coins for anything other than this, it's likely going to
> be
> > a race to be the richest possible for an auction. Time to pool coins.
> >
> > I intended to proto a Contract but I don't know too well how to approach
> it
> > so I made a doodle (attached file to this message) to show what I intend
> to
> > do in case anyone has a good start or lead to go by for something like
> > this. Yeah, it's pretty inspired by pact summoners of anime and
> videogames
> > lol, a power boost in exchange for something.
> >
> > It's a dynamic coin-pooling system intended to overwhelm Zombie Auctions
> by
> > allowing a bidder to gain more coins by 'Summoning' another player to
> help
> > you: you gain extra coins to win the auction with, but you have to give a
> > certain amount of Cards/Products that are picked off the corpse AFTER you
> > win to the player you summoned. Need more coins to win? Summon more
> > players. Players can make themselves summonable by putting up a listing
> (a
> > "Pact"?) that says what cards/products they want, and how many coins they
> > will boost you by if you summon them.
>
> I like this idea, but what happens if you lose? How do the coins get
> back to the original player?
>
> --
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
>

Re: DIS: Summoning contract idea, with a doodle

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 6:44 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> So, with coins no longer backed by wins, the only pure mechanical value I
> see that they have left is to win zombie auctions to pick cards off dead
> people (so that you can win "fractions" of a win and other guaranteed
> mechanical perks).
>
> Of course, since there doesn't seem to be any significant purely mechanical
> reason to keep coins for anything other than this, it's likely going to be
> a race to be the richest possible for an auction. Time to pool coins.
>
> I intended to proto a Contract but I don't know too well how to approach it
> so I made a doodle (attached file to this message) to show what I intend to
> do in case anyone has a good start or lead to go by for something like
> this. Yeah, it's pretty inspired by pact summoners of anime and videogames
> lol, a power boost in exchange for something.
>
> It's a dynamic coin-pooling system intended to overwhelm Zombie Auctions by
> allowing a bidder to gain more coins by 'Summoning' another player to help
> you: you gain extra coins to win the auction with, but you have to give a
> certain amount of Cards/Products that are picked off the corpse AFTER you
> win to the player you summoned. Need more coins to win? Summon more
> players. Players can make themselves summonable by putting up a listing (a
> "Pact"?) that says what cards/products they want, and how many coins they
> will boost you by if you summon them.

I like this idea, but what happens if you lose? How do the coins get
back to the original player?

-- 

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth

DIS: Re: BUS: [Important and Very Cool Contract] Combinotron

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 1:18 AM Rebecca via agora-business
 wrote:
>
> So here's the thing. If you have 4 cards of one type, you can create 10
> Products, at a gold efficiency of 2.5. But with the following contract,
> which I create, ANYONE can get a gold efficiency of (on average) 2.5 with
> just ONE card, and I'll throw in coins to sweeten the deal, meaning it's
> still optimal to use the Combinotron with four cards.
>
> {Title: Combinotron
>
> 1. The Aggregator.
> The Aggregator is a contract-defined office, to be held originally by R.
> Lee. If R. Lee does not perform eir duties under this contract, any other
> party may deputise for the Aggregator in the same way they may deputise for
> elected offices under the ruleset.

This doesn't provide means for others being replaced by deputisation
after R. Lee has been replaced.

>
> 2.  Assets
> The Combinotron can hold coins, Cards of any type, and Products of any
> type. IMPORTANT: Any player may transfer any number of Cards and coins to
> the Combinotron at any time, but Products may only be transferred to it as
> defined later.
>
> 3. Reporting
> The Aggregator SHALL publish a weekly report detailing all assets held by
> the Combinotron, as well as who gave each card the Combinotron holds to the
> Combinotron.
>
> 4. Becoming a party
> Any player may become a party of the Combinotron. This gives you voting

This doesn't give a method or a CAN.


> rights, but you don't have to be a party to give assets or take them from
> the Combinotron, although players only gain assets from the Combinotron in
> accordance with its rules.
>
> 5. Combination Procedure
> Whenever the Combinotron holds 4 or more cards of the same type, the
> Aggregator CAN and timely SHALL perform a valid Transmutorama with the
> earliest four cards of that type that were transferred to the Combinotron
> that the Combinotron still owns
>
> 6. Transmutoramas
> To perform a Transmutorama is to do the following actions, all in the same
> message. It is INVALID to perform one or more of these actions if all three
> are not performed in the same message
> (1): Transfer the 4 cards that are part of the Transmutorama from the
> Combinotron to the Aggregator
> (2) The Aggregator pays those 4 cards to acquire 10 Products of the
> corresponding type
> (3): The Aggregator deposits any Products e has acquired from this
> Transmutorama back into the Combinitron
>
> 7. Post-Transmutoramas
> After a Transmutorama has been performed, this contract automatically
> transfers 2 corresponding Products to the owner of each card in that
> Transmutorama. Then, the Aggregator, within one hour of the Transmutorama,
> SHALL randomly select two cards that were in the Transmutorama. After e
> does, this contract automatically transfers 1 corresponding Product to the
> owners of those cards.
>
> 8. No scams
> Attempting to perform an invalid Transmutorama is a class 1 million crime.

I don't think contracts can define crimes at any class. My
interpretation has been that a breach of a contract is always a
class-2 crime.

> Not performing the Aggregator's timely duties for the Aggregator is a class
> 2 crime.
>
> 9. Coin Reward
> Any player who receives Products from this contract may also receive one
> coin from this contract by announcement

Missing a CAN

>
> 9. Amendment
> Any player may amend this contract with 3 days notice and the consent of a
> majority of parties to this contract, as well as the consent of the
> Aggregator.}
> --
> From R. Lee



--

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate
Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth

DIS: Re: BUS: [Important and Very Cool Contract] Combinotron

[Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion]

I had the same idea and I'm all up for joining this and popping my cards
open but, I just have a bit of an issue with how the randomness is
determined. How is it done?

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 7:19 AM Rebecca via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> So here's the thing. If you have 4 cards of one type, you can create 10
> Products, at a gold efficiency of 2.5. But with the following contract,
> which I create, ANYONE can get a gold efficiency of (on average) 2.5 with
> just ONE card, and I'll throw in coins to sweeten the deal, meaning it's
> still optimal to use the Combinotron with four cards.
>
> {Title: Combinotron
>
> 1. The Aggregator.
> The Aggregator is a contract-defined office, to be held originally by R.
> Lee. If R. Lee does not perform eir duties under this contract, any other
> party may deputise for the Aggregator in the same way they may deputise for
> elected offices under the ruleset.
>
> 2.  Assets
> The Combinotron can hold coins, Cards of any type, and Products of any
> type. IMPORTANT: Any player may transfer any number of Cards and coins to
> the Combinotron at any time, but Products may only be transferred to it as
> defined later.
>
> 3. Reporting
> The Aggregator SHALL publish a weekly report detailing all assets held by
> the Combinotron, as well as who gave each card the Combinotron holds to the
> Combinotron.
>
> 4. Becoming a party
> Any player may become a party of the Combinotron. This gives you voting
> rights, but you don't have to be a party to give assets or take them from
> the Combinotron, although players only gain assets from the Combinotron in
> accordance with its rules.
>
> 5. Combination Procedure
> Whenever the Combinotron holds 4 or more cards of the same type, the
> Aggregator CAN and timely SHALL perform a valid Transmutorama with the
> earliest four cards of that type that were transferred to the Combinotron
> that the Combinotron still owns
>
> 6. Transmutoramas
> To perform a Transmutorama is to do the following actions, all in the same
> message. It is INVALID to perform one or more of these actions if all three
> are not performed in the same message
> (1): Transfer the 4 cards that are part of the Transmutorama from the
> Combinotron to the Aggregator
> (2) The Aggregator pays those 4 cards to acquire 10 Products of the
> corresponding type
> (3): The Aggregator deposits any Products e has acquired from this
> Transmutorama back into the Combinitron
>
> 7. Post-Transmutoramas
> After a Transmutorama has been performed, this contract automatically
> transfers 2 corresponding Products to the owner of each card in that
> Transmutorama. Then, the Aggregator, within one hour of the Transmutorama,
> SHALL randomly select two cards that were in the Transmutorama. After e
> does, this contract automatically transfers 1 corresponding Product to the
> owners of those cards.
>
> 8. No scams
> Attempting to perform an invalid Transmutorama is a class 1 million crime.
> Not performing the Aggregator's timely duties for the Aggregator is a class
> 2 crime.
>
> 9. Coin Reward
> Any player who receives Products from this contract may also receive one
> coin from this contract by announcement
>
> 9. Amendment
> Any player may amend this contract with 3 days notice and the consent of a
> majority of parties to this contract, as well as the consent of the
> Aggregator.}
> --
> From R. Lee
>

DIS: Re: BUS: [Important and Very Cool Contract] Combinotron

[Aris Merchant via agora-discussion]

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:19 PM Rebecca via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:

> So here's the thing. If you have 4 cards of one type, you can create 10
> Products, at a gold efficiency of 2.5. But with the following contract,
> which I create, ANYONE can get a gold efficiency of (on average) 2.5 with
> just ONE card, and I'll throw in coins to sweeten the deal, meaning it's
> still optimal to use the Combinotron with four cards.
>
> {Title: Combinotron
>
> 1. The Aggregator.
> The Aggregator is a contract-defined office, to be held originally by R.
> Lee. If R. Lee does not perform eir duties under this contract, any other
> party may deputise for the Aggregator in the same way they may deputise for
> elected offices under the ruleset.
>
> 2.  Assets
> The Combinotron can hold coins, Cards of any type, and Products of any
> type. IMPORTANT: Any player may transfer any number of Cards and coins to
> the Combinotron at any time, but Products may only be transferred to it as
> defined later.
>
> 3. Reporting
> The Aggregator SHALL publish a weekly report detailing all assets held by
> the Combinotron, as well as who gave each card the Combinotron holds to the
> Combinotron.
>
> 4. Becoming a party
> Any player may become a party of the Combinotron. This gives you voting
> rights, but you don't have to be a party to give assets or take them from
> the Combinotron, although players only gain assets from the Combinotron in
> accordance with its rules.
>
> 5. Combination Procedure
> Whenever the Combinotron holds 4 or more cards of the same type, the
> Aggregator CAN and timely SHALL perform a valid Transmutorama with the
> earliest four cards of that type that were transferred to the Combinotron
> that the Combinotron still owns
>
> 6. Transmutoramas
> To perform a Transmutorama is to do the following actions, all in the same
> message. It is INVALID to perform one or more of these actions if all three
> are not performed in the same message
> (1): Transfer the 4 cards that are part of the Transmutorama from the
> Combinotron to the Aggregator
> (2) The Aggregator pays those 4 cards to acquire 10 Products of the
> corresponding type
> (3): The Aggregator deposits any Products e has acquired from this
> Transmutorama back into the Combinitron
>
> 7. Post-Transmutoramas
> After a Transmutorama has been performed, this contract automatically
> transfers 2 corresponding Products to the owner of each card in that
> Transmutorama. Then, the Aggregator, within one hour of the Transmutorama,
> SHALL randomly select two cards that were in the Transmutorama. After e
> does, this contract automatically transfers 1 corresponding Product to the
> owners of those cards.


Too tired to explain in full, but contracts aren't allowed to do automatic
transfers.

-Aris

>
>