Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > like it could use a facelift and some new copy] Information for people who want to know what Agora is. I think the current content is pretty good for that. I think having recent events and up-to-date information about the game state is useful, since it serves as an example for someone learning about Agora, but isn't more important than other general information about the game. So, I'm not keen on reformatting the whole thing as a blog, but adding a "recent events" section could be good. Maybe just links to the last few weekly summaries? I could make updating those part of my routine. The styling seems fine to me. > * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? Not directly answering this... Right now the home page says "there ... 130 rules, but you are not expected to know all of them when you start" but also says "Before joining, you should probably read the rules". These seem mildly contradictory, and personally, I lean toward the second statement: it's good to know the rules. (This is one argument for trying to keep the ruleset simple.) > * What online resources do you use the most? I keep https://agoranomic.org/ruleset/flr-fresh.txt open in a tab most of the time. Other than that: G.'s CFJ archive, and the list archives (for sending links to messages, and for looking up things from before I subscribed). > * What resources do you wish were online? Old theses! > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > phone client] GMail. (I'm in the process of moving away from GMail but haven't figured out which client I'll use.) > * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you > access Agora through that you find indispensable? I've got my own quirky way of handling GMail. I disable conversation view so that I can archive individual emails as I deal with them, and so that an entire thread doesn't leap back out of the archive just because of one reply to it. To cope with the lack of threading I use a lot of searches like [in:inbox subject:informal]. Er, you probably shouldn't give this advice to anyone, but there you are. - Falsifian
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/20 2:06 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > I tried that. The problem is that, if I want users to be able to access a > .txt version (the original) and an .html version, I have to maintain two > copies of every single case, which is a pain both for number of files and > the possibility of divergence/keeping them in sync (and cranking through > lots of cases is time-consuming to process). Why would a .txt and .html version both need to be kept? Based on the code already in the repo, it looks like the small bit of markup is already being generated. One solution would be to generate the markup for all of the cases as another CI step, which would remove the need to keep two records. > > Also, the only way to do that on Agoranomic is to have each case end with > a file extension, so you'd have /3834.html and /3834.txt which is just > plain ugly if you ask me. There's an alternative of doing /3834 and /raw/3834, but good point about the ugliness. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/2020 11:06 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On 6/14/2020 11:01 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: >> On 6/14/20 1:44 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: >>> I'll start pushing my weekly report somewhere so people can bookmark it to >>> check deadlines or whatnot - would people prefer it on my site or on >>> Agoranomic somewhere. I only update it when I also publish the weekly >>> but maybe useful. >> >> >> I'd prefer it to be on agoranomic solely for the sake of keeping >> everything together. >> >> >>> >>> btw, the only reason the official version of the CotC site hasn't been >>> moved to its Agoranmic.org backup repo is that github pages doesn't >>> support server-side scripting i.e. php and that static versions I've >>> experimented with are very ugly. >>> >> >> What I've done for Assessor is have a CI job generate static markdown >> from the source in the main branch; I wonder if something similar could >> be done for the case log. >> > > I tried that. The problem is that, if I want users to be able to access a > .txt version (the original) and an .html version, I have to maintain two > copies of every single case, which is a pain both for number of files and > the possibility of divergence/keeping them in sync (and cranking through > lots of cases is time-consuming to process). > > Also, the only way to do that on Agoranomic is to have each case end with > a file extension, so you'd have /3834.html and /3834.txt which is just > plain ugly if you ask me. > Addendum: my next attempt was going to be to try javascript so the html page would load the txtfile on the client side, but if I do that I'd be learning javascript pretty much from scratch so it's been low on the priority list. (python and javascript are my two "I'm feeling behind the times because I haven't sat down or had an excuse to learn these" languages).
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/2020 11:01 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/14/20 1:44 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: >> I'll start pushing my weekly report somewhere so people can bookmark it to >> check deadlines or whatnot - would people prefer it on my site or on >> Agoranomic somewhere. I only update it when I also publish the weekly >> but maybe useful. > > > I'd prefer it to be on agoranomic solely for the sake of keeping > everything together. > > >> >> btw, the only reason the official version of the CotC site hasn't been >> moved to its Agoranmic.org backup repo is that github pages doesn't >> support server-side scripting i.e. php and that static versions I've >> experimented with are very ugly. >> > > What I've done for Assessor is have a CI job generate static markdown > from the source in the main branch; I wonder if something similar could > be done for the case log. > I tried that. The problem is that, if I want users to be able to access a .txt version (the original) and an .html version, I have to maintain two copies of every single case, which is a pain both for number of files and the possibility of divergence/keeping them in sync (and cranking through lots of cases is time-consuming to process). Also, the only way to do that on Agoranomic is to have each case end with a file extension, so you'd have /3834.html and /3834.txt which is just plain ugly if you ask me.
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/2020 2:36 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:44 AM Rebecca wrote: >> >> we can be a little overly rude to people who misinterpret the rules or >> forget about a rule or two but if anyone actually tries to tell you they've >> never made a similar mistake or that they actually understand and remember >> all the rules, they are lying. >> > > This is very important to remember. In the same vein, if you aren't > sure about the intended tone or if something seems direct, assume the > best because they probably aren't attacking you. > Yah, I think a thing to remember is that we channel academia a fair amount - i.e. one of the first lessons in grad school is that if someone hands you back a manuscript of your life's work dripping in red ink with terse comments like "this sentence is completely unsupported and probably wrong" it's not about you, it actually means they respect you enough to spend time scrutinizing every detail.
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/20 1:44 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > I'll start pushing my weekly report somewhere so people can bookmark it to > check deadlines or whatnot - would people prefer it on my site or on > Agoranomic somewhere. I only update it when I also publish the weekly > but maybe useful. I'd prefer it to be on agoranomic solely for the sake of keeping everything together. > > btw, the only reason the official version of the CotC site hasn't been > moved to its Agoranmic.org backup repo is that github pages doesn't > support server-side scripting i.e. php and that static versions I've > experimented with are very ugly. > What I've done for Assessor is have a CI job generate static markdown from the source in the main branch; I wonder if something similar could be done for the case log. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/2020 4:14 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/14/20 5:03 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion > wrote: >>> * What resources do you wish were online? >> I'd like to put my reports online since people seem to want them all to >> be online, but I don't currently have write access to the Agoran >> repositories. I'll start pushing my weekly report somewhere so people can bookmark it to check deadlines or whatnot - would people prefer it on my site or on Agoranomic somewhere. I only update it when I also publish the weekly but maybe useful. btw, the only reason the official version of the CotC site hasn't been moved to its Agoranmic.org backup repo is that github pages doesn't support server-side scripting i.e. php and that static versions I've experimented with are very ugly.
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
I should also mention that I had started working on something called Makor, basically a web-based gadget for creating proposals and reports. It would take a lot of work to bring it to the point of being more practical than just writing reports manually, but it could definitely help new players be more interested in holding offices and help get more reports online. On 6/13/2020 9:27 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? * What online resources do you use the most? * What resources do you wish were online? * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? -- ATMunn future notary here :)
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
Haven't looked at anyone else's answers yet, so there might be some repeat stuff in here, but I wanted to be unbiased in my answers. On 6/13/2020 9:27 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] It's pretty good as is (it was enough to get me into the game when I stumbled upon it in a random Google search), but a facelift could be good. * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? Basic information about how to set up the mailing lists; a summary of important rules; explanation of common terms used by Agorans; stuff like that. * What online resources do you use the most? The ruleset and archives. That's about it. Occasionally the CFJ archive. * What resources do you wish were online? Honestly not that much, I'm pretty content with it as is. Although, I will mention that I would be willing to put my Notary report online at some point if it's requested. * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] Thunderbird. * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? USE MONOSPACE FONT. Also make it default to plain text in the settings (don't remember exactly how to do that, it's been a while lol) * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? Not that I can really think of. -- ATMunn future notary here :)
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On Sunday 14 June 2020 08:55, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > For some reason or another (probably that we're mentioned on the Nomic > Wikipedia page) people can find Agora. That's how I found Agora myself! I later learned about Infinite Nomic by clicking on links and finding a mention of it on nomic.club [0], but I do not have a Discord account. I have been playing around on pubnixes for a while, and co-founded one with a friend, centered around baking bread and more generally building and repairing things yourself instead of buying and throwing away [1]. I discovered Nomic right during that time and found out there has been an attempt from others in a similar community to make a game of Nomic on GitHub [2], but it is now dead, so I have been trying to revive this concept on my own pubnix [3] and started watching y'all to get inspired! Right now we are waiting on 1 (one) more player as Rule 215 states we need 5 to start. [0]: https://nomic.club/wiki/index.php/Infinite_Nomic [1]: https://breadpunk.club/ [2]: https://github.com/audiodude/tiny-nomic [3]: https://tildegit.org/breadpunk/nomic -- ~lucidiot
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/20 5:03 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: >> * What resources do you wish were online? > I'd like to put my reports online since people seem to want them all to > be online, but I don't currently have write access to the Agoran > repositories. > You have read and write access in the org now (as does every member). Let me know if you need anything else. -- nch Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/20 5:36 AM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/14/20 5:03 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion > wrote: >>> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? >> I'd include a description of the customs and systems that aren't >> described in the ruleset and a short description of major game actions >> and any major systems we are using at the time. In the past, I think >> this hasn't worked because one player has taken it upon themselves, but >> I think if we did it collaboratively, we could get it done. >> > Ironically I set up a github based Wiki in 2016 to address this but > nobody ever updated it. In retrospect I think it's unnecessary anyway > because most players that have wanted to help with the website seem > comfortable using git to some extent (and if it's all text you can edit > it from github directly anyway). I should say more here: I'm not actually convinced a webpage is good for summarizing gameplay. It just seems to have never worked well historically. Part of that is infrequent updating, but another part is that play rarely happens as intended/expected. I'm going to focus on adding content that is more independent of current subgames and trends, but if someone else works on this sort of thing I'll be happy to integrate it where it makes sense. -- nch Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/13/20 10:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote: > Hello there! First time posting here! > > I have been watching the lists for a bit more than a month now, and as I have > been trying to keep up with the updates and understand all the concepts of > Agora, I feel like I am in a pretty good spot to share some thoughts. > > I also have a general interest in understanding Agora's history, preserving > it, and making it easier to access; I would definitely love to help the > Webmastor in general! Wow! Thank you for the detailed feedback from fresh eyes! It'll be extremely helpful when trying to design content aimed at newer players. And always feel free to jump in and try your best in whatever capacity. The rules don't actually require you to do anything but occasionally post. I recently looked at stuff I did when I first joined and I think for a couple months I made more mistakes than not, but people were quick to help me fix them. -- nch Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/20 5:03 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? > I'd include a description of the customs and systems that aren't > described in the ruleset and a short description of major game actions > and any major systems we are using at the time. In the past, I think > this hasn't worked because one player has taken it upon themselves, but > I think if we did it collaboratively, we could get it done. > Ironically I set up a github based Wiki in 2016 to address this but nobody ever updated it. In retrospect I think it's unnecessary anyway because most players that have wanted to help with the website seem comfortable using git to some extent (and if it's all text you can edit it from github directly anyway). -- nch Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On Sunday, 14 June 2020, 11:15:58 GMT+1, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/14/20 6:11 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote: > > Links to all thesis, we have so many lost ones > > We have many of the theses in GitHub. If you know of any others > available online, let me know so that I can archive them. These don't seem to be linked from the agoranomic.org homepage. I think that *everything* that we're tracking online should be linked from there. Otherwise, new people will never find it. -- ais523
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/14/20 6:11 AM, Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion wrote: I should answer the whole thing actually * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] I think it's good actually. The "Historical Records" thing could be updated/removed but it's otherwise very fine imo. * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? [Answered previously] * What online resources do you use the most? On a scale of 1-10, where 10 is every time I play Agora, and 1 is hardly ever: Email archives: 10: discussion 8: business 4: official 3: The Ruleset 1: Anything else * What resources do you wish were online? Links to all thesis, we have so many lost ones We have many of the theses in GitHub. If you know of any others available online, let me know so that I can archive them. * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] Archives to read, normal Gmail client to read/reply * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? Nope * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? Not that I can think of right now On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 3:27 AM nch via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? * What online resources do you use the most? * What resources do you wish were online? * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? -- nch Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
I should answer the whole thing actually * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] I think it's good actually. The "Historical Records" thing could be updated/removed but it's otherwise very fine imo. * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? [Answered previously] * What online resources do you use the most? On a scale of 1-10, where 10 is every time I play Agora, and 1 is hardly ever: Email archives: 10: discussion 8: business 4: official 3: The Ruleset 1: Anything else * What resources do you wish were online? Links to all thesis, we have so many lost ones * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] Archives to read, normal Gmail client to read/reply * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? Nope * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? Not that I can think of right now On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 3:27 AM nch via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. > > * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > like it could use a facelift and some new copy] > > * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? > > * What online resources do you use the most? > > * What resources do you wish were online? > > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > phone client] > > * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you > access Agora through that you find indispensable? > > * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? > > -- > nch > Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate > > >
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/13/20 9:27 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] I'd personally lean towards simply updating what we have because I like the look and vibe of it, but I understand that many others feel differently; however, I am strongly opposed to replacing it with a blog because, in the past, we have tended to stop using that. * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? I'd include a description of the customs and systems that aren't described in the ruleset and a short description of major game actions and any major systems we are using at the time. In the past, I think this hasn't worked because one player has taken it upon themselves, but I think if we did it collaboratively, we could get it done. * What online resources do you use the most? In order: * The ruleset * CFJ Archives * Mailman archives * What resources do you wish were online? I'd like to put my reports online since people seem to want them all to be online, but I don't currently have write access to the Agoran repositories. * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] I use a webclient, Thunderbird, and a phone client. * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? > * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? I think producing some documentation about how to produce content for the website would be helpful. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
>* What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? Just ad libbing this but: - Something that acknowledges that Agora's learning curve to being fully fluent in it is steep and huge, but that it's not necessary to have a full grip on everything to play. Plenty of players don't have a full command of the rules, and players helping players (ie. Protosal discussion, Grat. Arguments in CfJs) is a very common thing in Agora culture. - If a Rule has obscure wording, very often its scope is obscure as well, so you don't need to worry too much about understanding it in depth because it most likely won't be relevant to things you do. - There exist a shitload of "invisible rules" in the form of CfJs. They are an absolute nightmare on top of an already massive Ruleset - but don't worry too much about them. Veteran players can lawyer for you and bring up which are relevant when they pop up. - Posting prototypes of your Proposals (Protosals) are common, and as a new player, feel free to post your own Prototypes for Proposals, Contracts, etc for others to review and help you with. It's not just a 'new player' thing to do, veteran players often post Prototypes like this for help as well. On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 3:27 AM nch via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. > > * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > like it could use a facelift and some new copy] > > * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? > > * What online resources do you use the most? > > * What resources do you wish were online? > > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > phone client] > > * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you > access Agora through that you find indispensable? > > * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? > > -- > nch > Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate > > >
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 12:44 AM Rebecca via agora-discussion wrote: > > we can be a little overly rude to people who misinterpret the rules or > forget about a rule or two but if anyone actually tries to tell you they've > never made a similar mistake or that they actually understand and remember > all the rules, they are lying. > This is very important to remember. In the same vein, if you aren't sure about the intended tone or if something seems direct, assume the best because they probably aren't attacking you. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 2020-06-13 19:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote: * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] I echo everything that people have already requested. * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? It might be useful to explain the "Mother, May I" terms. I got a bit confused about all those capital-letter CANs and SHALLs as a beginner. Not the most useful thing in the world but it might clarify the difference between regular can and capital CAN. * What online resources do you use the most? I reference the SLR pretty much daily. Occasionally the CFJ archive. The Assessor's archive once every few weeks. * What resources do you wish were online? It would be nice if we had web copies of every officer's reports. It's ENCOURAGED right now, but only a few people do it (I wasn't even planning on it, in fact). My report requires lots of information from other officers, and searching through the archives is tedious. * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] Thunderbird for 95% of composition; the Gmail Android app the other 5%. I have my phone handy most of the time though, so those ratios are reversed when we're talking about flipping through new mail. * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? Before I switched to OpenBSD a couple weeks back my Firefox install had all the archives bookmarked (both mail-archive and mailman). So nothing fancy, but having them a couple clicks away was useful. Speaking of which I need to get them back. * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? I am going to add one thing to this discussion: I would like a list of active nomics. For some reason or another (probably that we're mentioned on the Nomic Wikipedia page) people can find Agora. Over in Infinite Nomic it's been a bit difficult recruiting people because they can't find Infinite Nomic easily. This has been a problem with other Nomics I've played before as well. So I think it would be useful if we made a list of other nomics out there. Agora is the eldest and wisest of Nomic games; therefore I would argue that it is our duty to ensure the survival of Nomics any way we can, including publicizing the new ones. I remember reading some old rulesets and finding a rule that gave rewards for the discovery of new nomic-like games. Maybe we could bring that back? As a crowdfunded contract, perhaps. /soapbox -- Trigon Speaker and Treasuror of Agora; Former Rulekeepor (12 months) and Cartographor (8 months) of Agora; Champion of Agora by High Score and Proposal; Badge of the Salted Earth; Sixth-Longest Continually Registered Player of Agora; Player and former Emperor of BlogNomic; Player, Book-keeper, and originator of the Metaruleset of Infinite Nomic.
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
we can be a little overly rude to people who misinterpret the rules or forget about a rule or two but if anyone actually tries to tell you they've never made a similar mistake or that they actually understand and remember all the rules, they are lying. On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:41 PM Rebecca wrote: > Welcome lucidiot as well. We have treated some new players poorly in the > past (we were awful to Cuddlebeam when e first joined) but I'd like to > think we are relatively welcoming. Expectations might be high (maybe too > high) for someone like PSS who holds like a million offices. I think what > would be most useful to say and understand is that Agora is multifaceted > enough that you can put in as much or as little effort as you like. You can > hold a million offices and try hard to win every subgame, or you can just > vote on proposals and judge a CFJ or two, or you can take no game actions > at all and just offer your opinions/discuss things and those are all valid > ways to play. > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:37 PM Rebecca wrote: > >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy] >> The Ruleset should have more prominent links and be updated to remove >> outdated info and with the current name of the Rulekeepor. "As of May 2017" >> should obviously be updated periodically to the current month. G. should >> fix the gaps in eir CFJ database and I have pledged to give em all my >> assets if e does so, so that's pretty cool. >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? >> I honestly think not much, maybe a few more tips on the technical side of >> things (mailing lists are an old technology that it is more likely to not >> be understood than was the case a long time ago). Some appealing events >> from our history, maybe >> * What online resources do you use the most? >> The ruleset I always use from the weblink, sometimes CFJ databases, and I >> really like and often read Falsifian's reportor reports: we really need to >> start compensating em with game assets for those reports/ >> * What resources do you wish were online? >> Updated stuff for every office. HOWEVER i have no idea how to edit a >> website or make my own office page or update it, so it's hypocritical from >> me I guess. >> * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, >> phone client] >> gmail.com which is kind of bad. >> * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you >> access Agora through that you find indispensable? >> Gmail's search function is excellent and usually dispenses with the need >> to use the archives for me. >> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? >> Idk >> >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:16 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < >> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> >>> On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote: >>> > Hello there! First time posting here! >>> >>> Welcome! >>> >>> >>> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >>> >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. >>> >> >>> >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I >>> feel >>> >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy] >>> > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the >>> general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring >>> interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while >>> binge-reading through all the emails. >>> > >>> > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along >>> other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making >>> the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that >>> the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect. >>> >>> >>> +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I >>> thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public >>> archives. >>> >>> >>> >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? >>> > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do >>> not feel confident at all! There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to >>> uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered. >>> >>> >>> There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people >>> try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :). >>> That was my experience, at least. >>> >>> Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic >>> Github org [0]. >>> >>> >>> > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it >>> is okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower >>> than they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming >>> (even during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself >>> to convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would >>> definitely
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
Welcome lucidiot as well. We have treated some new players poorly in the past (we were awful to Cuddlebeam when e first joined) but I'd like to think we are relatively welcoming. Expectations might be high (maybe too high) for someone like PSS who holds like a million offices. I think what would be most useful to say and understand is that Agora is multifaceted enough that you can put in as much or as little effort as you like. You can hold a million offices and try hard to win every subgame, or you can just vote on proposals and judge a CFJ or two, or you can take no game actions at all and just offer your opinions/discuss things and those are all valid ways to play. On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:37 PM Rebecca wrote: > * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > like it could use a facelift and some new copy] > The Ruleset should have more prominent links and be updated to remove > outdated info and with the current name of the Rulekeepor. "As of May 2017" > should obviously be updated periodically to the current month. G. should > fix the gaps in eir CFJ database and I have pledged to give em all my > assets if e does so, so that's pretty cool. > * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? > I honestly think not much, maybe a few more tips on the technical side of > things (mailing lists are an old technology that it is more likely to not > be understood than was the case a long time ago). Some appealing events > from our history, maybe > * What online resources do you use the most? > The ruleset I always use from the weblink, sometimes CFJ databases, and I > really like and often read Falsifian's reportor reports: we really need to > start compensating em with game assets for those reports/ > * What resources do you wish were online? > Updated stuff for every office. HOWEVER i have no idea how to edit a > website or make my own office page or update it, so it's hypocritical from > me I guess. > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > phone client] > gmail.com which is kind of bad. > * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you > access Agora through that you find indispensable? > Gmail's search function is excellent and usually dispenses with the need > to use the archives for me. > * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? > Idk > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:16 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote: >> > Hello there! First time posting here! >> >> Welcome! >> >> >> > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >> >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. >> >> >> >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I >> feel >> >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy] >> > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the >> general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring >> interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while >> binge-reading through all the emails. >> > >> > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along >> other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making >> the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that >> the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect. >> >> >> +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I >> thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public >> archives. >> >> >> >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? >> > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do >> not feel confident at all! There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to >> uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered. >> >> >> There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people >> try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :). >> That was my experience, at least. >> >> Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic >> Github org [0]. >> >> >> > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is >> okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than >> they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even >> during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to >> convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would >> definitely help. >> > >> > The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common >> practices for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links >> with annotations like [0]. I had to explain what bottom-posting means to >> someone yesterday, on an unrelated project. >> >> >> The mailing lists should be adding the prefixes automatically, so long >> as you send it to the right list's email
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
* What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] The Ruleset should have more prominent links and be updated to remove outdated info and with the current name of the Rulekeepor. "As of May 2017" should obviously be updated periodically to the current month. G. should fix the gaps in eir CFJ database and I have pledged to give em all my assets if e does so, so that's pretty cool. * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? I honestly think not much, maybe a few more tips on the technical side of things (mailing lists are an old technology that it is more likely to not be understood than was the case a long time ago). Some appealing events from our history, maybe * What online resources do you use the most? The ruleset I always use from the weblink, sometimes CFJ databases, and I really like and often read Falsifian's reportor reports: we really need to start compensating em with game assets for those reports/ * What resources do you wish were online? Updated stuff for every office. HOWEVER i have no idea how to edit a website or make my own office page or update it, so it's hypocritical from me I guess. * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] gmail.com which is kind of bad. * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? Gmail's search function is excellent and usually dispenses with the need to use the archives for me. * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? Idk On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 2:16 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote: > > Hello there! First time posting here! > > Welcome! > > > > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. > >> > >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy] > > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the > general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring > interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while > binge-reading through all the emails. > > > > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along > other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making > the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that > the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect. > > > +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I > thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public > archives. > > > >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? > > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do > not feel confident at all! There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to > uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered. > > > There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people > try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :). > That was my experience, at least. > > Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic > Github org [0]. > > > > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is > okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than > they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even > during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to > convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would > definitely help. > > > > The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common > practices for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links > with annotations like [0]. I had to explain what bottom-posting means to > someone yesterday, on an unrelated project. > > > The mailing lists should be adding the prefixes automatically, so long > as you send it to the right list's email address. > > > >> * What online resources do you use the most? > > Since it is linked on the homepage, I had used the public archives at > mail-archive.com quite a lot to get an overview of the game before > subscribing to the lists. > > > > I no longer use this as I just get the emails, but I regularly use > Gaelan's ruleset page [0]. It shows HTTP 502 errors half of the time, and > right now it has HTTP 500, possibly due to recent changes in the FLR, but I > still like it since it makes browsing the rules easier with hyperlinks on > key concepts. That is a very welcome thing when you want to learn the rules! > > > I've been considering rewriting the ruleset generation for a while, and > that might permit a functional HTML ruleset viewer. > > > > - A glossary of acronyms; I am still unsure about what CotC means, and > it took me a while
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/13/20 11:43 PM, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote: > Hello there! First time posting here! Welcome! > On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >> Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. >> >> * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel >> like it could use a facelift and some new copy] > Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the general > state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring interpretations of > the discussions that I had not understood while binge-reading through all the > emails. > > The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along other > 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making the > homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that the game > is still quite active and the type of play to expect. +1 on keeping it updated; when I was looking at before joining, I thought "oh no, is this dead?", at least until looking at the public archives. >> * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? > I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do not > feel confident at all! There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to > uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered. There's no reason to be scared of sending mail to the lists; most people try to be as forgiving as reasonable, especially for new players :). That was my experience, at least. Also, we try to keep a lot of the code and reports on the AgoraNomic Github org [0]. > This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is okay > to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than they > seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even during > hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to convince > myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would definitely help. > > The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common practices > for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links with > annotations like [0]. I had to explain what bottom-posting means to someone > yesterday, on an unrelated project. The mailing lists should be adding the prefixes automatically, so long as you send it to the right list's email address. >> * What online resources do you use the most? > Since it is linked on the homepage, I had used the public archives at > mail-archive.com quite a lot to get an overview of the game before > subscribing to the lists. > > I no longer use this as I just get the emails, but I regularly use Gaelan's > ruleset page [0]. It shows HTTP 502 errors half of the time, and right now it > has HTTP 500, possibly due to recent changes in the FLR, but I still like it > since it makes browsing the rules easier with hyperlinks on key concepts. > That is a very welcome thing when you want to learn the rules! I've been considering rewriting the ruleset generation for a while, and that might permit a functional HTML ruleset viewer. > - A glossary of acronyms; I am still unsure about what CotC means, and it > took me a while to understand NttPF and TTttPF Yes, we all have a chronic problem of not sending things to the public forum. I learned about all the acronyms from Murphy's old site [1], which is linked on the homepage. "CotC" stands for "Clerk of the Courts", and is an unofficial position that G. takes on in addition to eir role as Arbitor. >> * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? > Some more generic thoughts: the website could probably become more attractive > by having more graphics. ASCII art is cool, and I generally find the various > reports to be interesting, but a benefit of the web is it's not just > plaintext. > > This might require some effort, but a graph of the current economy showing > the volume of currency exchanges, or one with the volumes of mails exchanged > on each list over time would look nice. > Or a hall of fame showing all the winners on golden plates. > Or a very corporate-looking "sub-site" for the Dragon Corporation. The > Startup Generator [1] could be an inspiration. Ooh I like the idea of a website for the Dragon Corporation... [0]: http://github.com/AgoraNomic/ [1]: http://zenith.homelinux.net/agora_acronyms.php -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On 6/13/20 9:27 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. > > * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > like it could use a facelift and some new copy] I think current events would be a good idea, and we might want to focus on updating some of the current links to old websites. > > * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? Acronyms, and pretty much everything lucidot said. > * What online resources do you use the most? The SLR and the CFJ archives. > > * What resources do you wish were online? I'm actually pretty content with what we have now. Even the CFJ archive can be made searchable by searching the GitHub mirror. > > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > phone client] Thunderbird. > > * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you > access Agora through that you find indispensable? Just use a client with proper threading support. This notably excludes the Gmail web client. > * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? > /shrug. This is kind of hard for me to answer because I feel fine right now, but I'm sure that as soon as an improvement is made I will think "how did I ever live without this?". -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
On Sunday, 14 June 2020, 04:43:56 GMT+1, lucidiot via agora-discussion wrote: > > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > > phone client] > > I am currently replying using Protonmail's webmail, because I am having > issues with my normal desktop client, Evolution. Huh, so it isn't just me. I wonder what's gone wrong with Evolution recently? I used to be able to receive Agoran emails via Evolution but not send (thus I received at this account but sent via the @alumni email account). Recently it's been the other way round, I can send but not receive. (However, most of the time I want to reply to an existing thread, so can't really use it to send either.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
Hello there! First time posting here! I have been watching the lists for a bit more than a month now, and as I have been trying to keep up with the updates and understand all the concepts of Agora, I feel like I am in a pretty good spot to share some thoughts. I also have a general interest in understanding Agora's history, preserving it, and making it easier to access; I would definitely love to help the Webmastor in general! On Sunday 14 June 2020 03:27, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. > > * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel > like it could use a facelift and some new copy] Falsifian's weekly reports have been very helpful to keep up on the general state of the game (thank you so much!) and sometimes bring interpretations of the discussions that I had not understood while binge-reading through all the emails. The site could turn into a blog and show those reports (maybe along other 'articles' like theses or anything Agorans want to publish?), making the homepage get updated regularly and allowing new visitors to see that the game is still quite active and the type of play to expect. The few paragraphs currently on the homepage could be updated and moved to an About page, and the homepage just has a short paragraph on the homepage to describe it, along with a link to that page to learn more. > * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? I haven't been sending anything on the lists for a while because I do not feel confident at all! There is a lot to learn and a lot of history to uncover, and archives, sites, repos are quite scattered. I also felt like everyone was rather strict or unforgiving, until Aris expressed similar feelings and things warmed up. It is possible that starting to watch during some difficult times encouraged that feeling. This just leads me to suggest to have reminders in this page that it is okay to start small, to ask questions, that the expectations are lower than they seem to be, or that everyone is always friendly and welcoming (even during hard times); those are what I have been trying to tell myself to convince myself to reply, but reading them from someone else would definitely help. The page could also include a reference to a netiquette, or common practices for posting such as the DIS/BUS/OFF prefixes, referencing links with annotations like [0]. I had to explain what bottom-posting means to someone yesterday, on an unrelated project. > * What online resources do you use the most? Since it is linked on the homepage, I had used the public archives at mail-archive.com quite a lot to get an overview of the game before subscribing to the lists. I no longer use this as I just get the emails, but I regularly use Gaelan's ruleset page [0]. It shows HTTP 502 errors half of the time, and right now it has HTTP 500, possibly due to recent changes in the FLR, but I still like it since it makes browsing the rules easier with hyperlinks on key concepts. That is a very welcome thing when you want to learn the rules! > * What resources do you wish were online? A non-exhaustive list from reflecting on this for half an hour: - Undocumented traditions, such as those recently mentioned in the fora about not renewing PM mandates - How-tos, tips about writing proposals, contracts, judgements, theses, etc. For example, common pitfalls (allow joining/leaving/amending contracts!), reminding players to check the FLR for annotations on the rules they use to avoid making some mistakes, encouraging to use protos, … - Cantus Cygnei - A glossary of acronyms; I am still unsure about what CotC means, and it took me a while to understand NttPF and TTttPF - The Webmastor's reports, to get both a list of existing archives and a list of current issues (and maybe how to help). I admit I haven't been looking that deep for existing resources and there might just be a missing visible link somewhere! > * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, > phone client] I am currently replying using Protonmail's webmail, because I am having issues with my normal desktop client, Evolution. > * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you > access Agora through that you find indispensable? Configuring mail filters right after subscribing to have all Agora mails separated from my normal email keeps me sane, especially when I get 200 mails to catch up on just a day or two. Marking as read and instead using labels or various other indicators via those filters also prevents receiving tons of notifications on the phone! > * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? Some more generic thoughts: the website could probably become more attractive by having more graphics. ASCII art is cool, and I generally find the various reports to be interesting, but a benefit of the web is
DIS: [Webmastor] Informal Polling
Some questions to help me plan some improvements to the web content. * What should be on the main page? [it's pretty outdated now, and I feel like it could use a facelift and some new copy] * What kinds of tips should go on a New Player page? * What online resources do you use the most? * What resources do you wish were online? * How do you access Agora? [your email's web client, a desktop client, phone client] * Any tips or tricks that you use on the devices/software that you access Agora through that you find indispensable? * Anything else that you think would help improve the web content? -- nch Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager, Pirate
