Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt There are tons of tutorials on C++. There's one at cplusplus.com -- the tutorial I learned it from was that one, in fact. It teaches C++11 (or C++0x, not precisely sure). Its a good starter though -- you don't need to learn C++14, C++17 or C++20 until you've gotten

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt There are tons of tutorials on C++. There's one at cplusplus.com -- the tutorial I learned it from was that one, in fact. It teaches C++11 (or C++0x, not precisely sure). Its a good starter though -- you don't need to learn C++14, C++17 or C++20 until you've gotten

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Hi Guys,I was just wondering where I can learn more about some of these programming languages you have mentioned here. I found material on Python, more than enough to get me started in learning it I think. However, are there any tutorials here that have to do with C

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @61yeah but so the thing is.  You're supposed to preload your art assets up front.  This isn't even about 30MS of audio latency at the end of the day, from a programming perspective.  Even if your game takes 10 times longer to load you're still going to run out

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt camlorn wrote:@55This thread never had a question and this is an internet forum. What's the problem with it going off topic, especially when it's still sort of on topic?The main thing I'm struggling to understand is, does the op actually have slowness in his game

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt now watch the op not say anything and just make a topic for the hell of it and sitting back watching the drama fest go on...well at least there's a lot of constructive discussion in this topic too i guess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506382/#p506382

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @58, oh no, I did mean 30 seconds sometimes. ATA8 ACS-4 (INCITS 529-2018) indicates that a disk can take up to 30 seconds to complete the HYBRID CHANGE BY LBA RANGE and HYBRID EVICT commands. A disk can also take an unusually long time to identify itself through

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @58, oh no, I did mean 30 seconds sometimes. ATA8 ACS-4 (INCITS 529-2018) indicates that a disk can take up to 30 seconds to complete the HYBRID CHANGE BY LBA RANGE and HYBRID EVICT commands. A disk can also take an unusually long time to identify itself through

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @55This thread never had a question and this is an internet forum. What's the problem with it going off topic, especially when it's still sort of on topic?@56Hopefully you meant 30 MS, though it is actually quite possible for a disk to take 30 seconds as well

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @55This thread never had a question and this is an internet forum. What's the problem with it going off topic, especially when it's still sort of on topic?@57Hopefully you meant 30 MS, though it is actually quite possible for a disk to take 30 seconds as well

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I mean, I think I can throw a disc pretty far. I can throw a 5 pound shot put ball about 7 metres. So I think I can throw a disc further. Rory has this habit of going about telling people how great pure basic is, and providing 0.0.000..0 pieces of evidence

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @55, definitely right on all of your points. Regarding load times, I'd just like to point out that a disk can take up to 30 seconds to respond to an IO request, if not longer. This is one of those flaws that post 4 pointed out -- a sound might take far longer than

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @55, definitely right on all of your points. Regarding load times, I'd just like to point out that a disk can take up to 30 seconds to respond to an IO request, if not longer. This is one of those flaws that post 4 pointed out -- a sound make take far longer than

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I'm not a coder. I dabble in a few code-related things but still struggle with basic concepts, so I'm largely a player of games and don't much care about the language. Therefore I'm not the target audience here and probably not in this room in general, but I feel

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Liam wrote:33: Lol. No you can't tell the difference between that short of a time span. That's ridiculous.Agreed with Liam. I'd like you to record you playing Manamon at Hanja Village and play that speedy reaction game in the arcade. When you hear the sound, respond

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @52If you read what I've written on the topic, you will find that I have listed out at least 10 reasons why the benchmark is flawed in this thread already, and that my procedure for actually being able to notice requires spending around $1000 on hardware. URL

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @camlorn, I have no doubt that you can notice 30 ms delay when using keyboard to trigger your sound.However, the OP only specifies that he tested the delay by launching a program which automatically loaded and played the sound, without the user doing anything.Again

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @50Yeah; in general stay away from sighted game dev as a job. Though I suspect you've already worked that out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506064/#p506064 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I wish there was a way to work with unity completely programatically. if so I would be all over that. I've missed out on a couple paid opportunities because of it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506058/#p506058 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt As said, the 28 MS will be maibnly noticed by sighted gammers. Its called ghosting. The longer it takes for a colour to change, the less clean it looks. It can also fuck up your game. Experienced this when I tried COD on my friend's low-end phone. URL: https

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @47I want to write audiogame unity.  I honestly truly don't know why.  I started one in Electron, proved the concept, then realized that (for the third time) audiogames are pointless without good audio which lead into Synthizer as a thing, thus sorta derailing

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt 45:I want to work in unity in the worst way. Monogame alone is not cutting it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506025/#p506025 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Actually to follow that up with how to notice 30MS:It's not that 30MS is going to be "O wow that's obviously 30MS".  it's that 30MS is going to feel mushy for lack of a better word.  If you're playing a music keyboard then, at least to me, it actually

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @40Sighted people like C/C++ because they're fast enough that you can manipulate literally 10 individual triangles, doing stuff with them 60 times a second, and streaming them to your graphics card and ultimately as pixels at gigabits per second down the cable

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @43, he might notice the 28 MS delay but only if we put queues in it. But the 2 MS delay? No way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505966/#p505966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @43, the mind is incapable of that. I can tell that there's a delay of, say, between 20 to 50 MS in audio when I'mmonirong myself. But when it comes to program execution... the mind is incapable of that kind of measurement because that's nothing to queue it to let

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I'm just gonna chime in here.@33 says that they can tell the difference between 2 and 30 milliseconds. I say we put it to the test.1. We write 2 PB programs, one that loads a file ASAP and one that hesitates for 28 ms (the difference between PB and BGT).2. We

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I'm just gonna chime in here.@33 says that they can tell the difference between 2 and 30 milliseconds. I say we put it to the test.1. We write 2 PB programs, one that loads a file ASAP and one that hesitates for 28 ms (the difference between PB and BGT).2. We

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I'm just gonna chime in here.@33 says that they can tell the difference between 2 and 30 milliseconds. I say we put it to the test.1. We write 2 PB programs, one that loads a file ASAP and one that hesitates for 28 ms (the difference between PB and BGT).2. We

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @40, typically C is used by game developers (especially AAA games) because it gives them not only maximum performance but allows them to dig into the really low-level stuff too. For example, a mainstream game might use the computational features of a GPU, or might

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I have no real problem with terminal games, in fact I quite like the cmd and powershell and use them for quite a lot. But Rorrys games were just the same sort of thing in a terminal, over, and over. But if you look in the general room, you'll see he's moving away

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt So this brings up a good point about C in general. Are there reasons people choose it over an object oriented language like Java or Python for game creation? From personal experience (not game making related), there are a lot of things that I like that C does, but C

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt So this brings up a good point about C in general. Are there reasons people choose it over an object oriented language like Java or Python for game creation? From personal experience (not game making related), there are a lot of things that I like that C does, but C

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @36The level of conversation you're talking about not liking is maybe half as deep as the conversations I have at work every day.  There is this idea around here that the way you make a game is you go get BGT and the rest will fall into place.  In reality games

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt And yet, I still haven't understood what's the issue with terminal games. Could  someone explain it to me? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505895/#p505895 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt The only way you can tell that kind of difference is if you're experiencing it all the time. Like, I can see being able to slightly tell the difference if that's the amount of audio lag you have, but even then it might not be noticeable. But loading a game, which

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt THe only way you can tell that kind of difference is if you're experiencing it all the time. Like, I can see being able to slightly tell the difference if that's the amount of audio lag you have, but even then it might not be noticeable. But loading a game, which

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I think I'm going to have to side with 35 on this one; if you seriously can tell the difference, you're biohacked.  You don't belong on this forum; you're clearly out of a straight up SciFi trhiller franchise... I dunno, the matrix?  Resident Evil? URL: https

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt 33: Lol. No you can't tell the difference between that short of a time span. That's ridiculous. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505857/#p505857 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @32, understandable.  There's always going to be workarounds though, or people wouldn't write about finding huge stacks of atari2600 games.  Clearly they were valuable to someone.  If that story doesn't inspire you a bit, try this one on for size.  Why do we even

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt yeah, simpicity isn't a complaint for me. Also, FYI I can tell the different between 2 and 30 ms so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505850/#p505850 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I personally have no problem with extreme simplicity. In fact, I indorse it. Like you, Nocturnus, I couldn't code my way out of a cardboard box, but I would love to make games that people enjoy. My problem with BGT is continued compatibility. Call me a pessimist

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Best post in this whole freaking topic?  27.  Thirty's not far behind, either.  Thumbs up.  The rest of you hurt my head.  You know what's worse than not knowing how to program?  Not knowing how to program but still being able to tell that there's a bunch of wanabes

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @28I was actually the one that made the CP server CLI, and for that matter gave BGT the ability to read from and write to stdout/stderr. Boredom called, and we were considering the many different ways one might run a BGT server under both windows and wine

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @28I was actually the one that made the CP server CLI, and for that matter gave BGT the ability to read from and write to stdout/stderr. Bordom called, and we were considering the many different ways one might run a BGT server under both windows and wine

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @20All fair points and accurate, but this discussion was about games, though I guess it isn't now.  But I was addressing it from that perspective.I will say though that while you're right that people won't need to i.e. use variadic parameter packs, things like

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Plenty of good things were in the cmd. TTCom. The crazy party server, all though I don't know how pragma pulled off a terminal bgt script. Yes, Rorys games were nothing impressive, in fact, mostly lacking of that, but everyone has to start somewhere. Especially when

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Why not just own it?Yes, I used to develop games that ran in the console. At least I took the time to create and present something to the public, quite a big hurtle for some.No shame in making text-based projects as long as they're balanced. Gameplay is gameplay

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Why not just own it?Yes, I used to develop games that ran in the console. At least I took the time to create and present something to the public, quite a big hurtle for some.No shame in making text-based projects as long as they're balanced. Gameplay is gameplay

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Yeah seriously Ivan. Rory's games may not be the most amazing titles out there, but as people have said before, you have no room to say anything. You know why? Because you release the same game all the time, just with a new paint job. At least Rory makes something

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Post 11, you have no room to talk. Like, at all. You do realize that you contributed to a large amount of drama on this forum, right? So what if the OP is not making the next block buster. So what if his games were all in the terminal up til now. Should he improve

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @ Rory: Hallelujah! Preach! Psych, no! It's just by 28, fricking, milliseconds. If you're going to judge by speed between the two languages, and you're unable to provide evidence, it's likely that you are the one causing the speed decrease due to bad structured code

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @Ethin, that hello world programme confused  the shit out of me, but maybe if I took the time to sit down, apply myself, or listen to an audio tutorial, I'd probably grasp it.@Rory, why didn't you make a topic about the slowness of my metabolic system? ! Ivan, why

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt To further step away from the ever-blooming BGT yes or no discussions:Whenever you blow out random numbers into the world and compare them to other random numbers, scientists will laugh at you and don't take you for granted at all. Try supporting them with the code

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt oh for god sake @11, give it a bloody rest! I've already said time and time again that I've moved away from terminal games! What's your big deal! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505490/#p505490 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt camlorn wrote:@18I don't know that I agree that productivity is highly subjective, no.  There are a number of objective measures that you could use for it and there are people who spend a lot of time researching it, but it's not my area of expertise so i can't quote

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt camlorn wrote:@18I don't know that I agree that productivity is highly subjective, no.  There are a number of objective measures that you could use for it and there are people who spend a lot of time researching it, but it's not my area of expertise so i can't quote

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt camlorn wrote:@18I don't know that I agree that productivity is highly subjective, no.  There are a number of objective measures that you could use for it and there are people who spend a lot of time researching it, but it's not my area of expertise so i can't quote

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @18I don't know that I agree that productivity is highly subjective, no.  There are a number of objective measures that you could use for it and there are people who spend a lot of time researching it, but it's not my area of expertise so i can't quote studies

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @17, nope. This is hello world in C:#include int main() { printf("Hello world!\n"); return 0; }And this is the same result in C++:#include int main() { std::cout << "Hello world!" << std::endl; return 0; }You can also write the

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @17, nope. This is hello world in C:#include int main() { printf("Hello world!\n"); return 0; }And this is the same result in C++:#include int main() { std::cout << "Hello world!" << std::endl; return 0; }You can also write the

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @17, nope. This is hello world in C:#include int main() { printf("Hello world!\n"); return 0; }And this is the same result in C++:#include int main() { std::cout << "Hello world!" << std::endl; return 0; }You can also write the

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @17, nope. This is hello world in C:#include int main() { printf("Hello world!\n"); return 0; }And this is the same result in C++:#include int main() { std::cout << "Hello world!" << std::endl; return 0; }You can also write the

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt If I could understand the language of C++ I would actually try working in it. But even a simple hello world program takes a lot to make URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505418/#p505418 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @15I shy away from C/C++.  There is some enjoyment in using it but again productivity vs performance.  But if you're going to use PB you might as well save yourself the $90, learn how to install SDL and one of the screen reader speech wrappers, and skip the PB phase

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @14, true that. Not really sure why so many people on here shy away from C/C++. I, myself, really enjoy working in it. Add Rust to that list and I'm golden. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505408/#p505408 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Moving from one commercial but abandoned product to another commercial but as of yet not abandoned product just punts the problem down the road.If you are paying for your programming language and aren't in some very specialized domain like custom microcontrollers

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt @11 I mean, pragma did it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505352/#p505352 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I'm gonna give my opinion on BGT now since this is what the topic is about. If you guys are willing to sacrifice support for other platforms as well as future versions of Windows when BGT finally kicks the bucket, and if you're also prepared to accept the fact

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Someone will have to show us how to write console games in bgt so we can make better games than OP.Oh wait a sec...you can make console apps in python! Don't use BGT everyone, because python can output to the terminal so we can have terminal based games!Oh wait

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Someone will have to show us how to write console games in bgt so we can make better games than OP.Oh wait a sec...you can make console apps in python! Don't use BGT everyone, because python can output to the terminal so we can have termminal based gakmes!Oh wait

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt Please someone enlighten me to as why this topic exists? Cool, you figured something out. Do we care? Most people, probably don't. It's like 28 ms. Now if we were doing speed of something like ruby or python to something like c or c++, that would be a big difference

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I am not going to leave bgt, if you dont like it, just stop useing it and keap your observations for your self, peaple hoo will stik to bgt will just ignore your topick, pointless... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505274/#p505274 -- Audiogames

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I am not going to leave bgt, iff you dont like it, just stop useing it and keap your observations for your self, peaple hoo will stik to bgt will just ignore your topick, pointless... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505274/#p505274 -- Audiogames

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I mean, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. When switching away from BGT for the reasoning that most people here do, I probably wouldn't choose PB as my replacement language for several reasons. It's still not really what I'd consider a mainstream

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt I really don't know what the point of this topic is other than to shit on people who use a certain scripting engine.Oh guys don't use BGT I use PB it's much much much much better so fuck man don't code any games in bgt!Haha! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt just for 28 ms? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505197/#p505197 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt The question is, do I care? When I worked with the language, it was fast enough to meet my needs. Just because other languages may be faster does not necessarily make my choice bad. If you are going to convince us not to use something, speed should be your last

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt 2ms vs 30ms is within the margin of error for anything doing disk I/O.  Purebasic is faster in the general case because it's basically C, but the above benchmark isn't useful and may actually come out with BGT as the winner if ran properly.There are something like 4

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt 2ms is much faster though URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505175/#p505175 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector

Re: the slowness of bgt

Re: the slowness of bgt 30 MS really isn't that slow. I agree though; I don't really think things should continue to be developed in BGT. That's not to say I won't still play said games; I just don't think BGT should continue to be used regularly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post

the slowness of bgt

the slowness of bgt I just realized how slow it is! it does stuff so slow, I couldn't believe it. I can perform loops in , say, pure basic, that I would never dream of doing in bgt. It loads stuff slow, it handles stuff slow, it's just, slow. don't use it! trust me! check out another