Re: Contribute your assets to Golden Crayon
Re: Contribute your assets to Golden Crayon Moderation:Closing this thread, per Tunmi's request, because there is already a well-established thread that Tunmi couldn't be bothered to find by having a thirty-second peek at DanGero's post history or the general games discussion board. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/621769/#p621769 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Bear in mind, this boss comes well into the game, when you have a full party with decent levels and quite a few tools at your disposal. A lot of folks who enjoy turn-based games criticize AHC because it's too easy, and Entombed because it's too random and uncomplicated. I think my example, and stuff like it, solves both problems. Yes, that boss is hard, and yes it's going to kill you the first time you face it probably. But it's not insurmountable, any more than the Magus Sisters were. I kind of feel like you were at first saying turn-based combat is too easy, and then when I gave an example that was hard, you're saying it's...too hard? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570702/#p570702 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Okay, so for the sake of argument, here's a boss I built three years ago. Exact numbers don't matter right now, but extrapolate a little bit and you'll see what I mean here. It should be noted that including the main character, you have three three party members. You can swap them in and out (like Final Fantasy X this way) but doing so removes their buffs and takes a turn.Name: Kamala-Notai, the Dream ShamanDescription: A wizened old man with a long, smooth staff, a headdress made from bones and feathers, and a tiny misty woman perched on his left shoulderStats:Shaman: fairly high HP, bad attack, good defenses vs. all types of damage, fairly low initiative, fairly high magic attackSpirit Element: fairly low HP, bad attack, fairly low physical defense, very high magic attack and magic defense, extremely high initiativeNote: It is possible to target either the shaman or the elemental in this battle, but there are consequences for the latter on the first three rounds (see below)Shaman's AttacksMystic Chant: raises magic attack by 20 points and grants +10 evasionHypnotic Orb: causes one target to fall asleep; has a 10% chance to failTroubled Dreams: inflicts a debuff on any sleeping party members which removes 1/4 of their max HP every round until they wake up, or until they dieLightwarp: has a 10% chance to fail on each target; attempts to hit all targets with a debuff which will cause the Blind statusNightmare: does large damage to all sleeping targets, but wakes them up in the processRaise Staff: does not attack, but simply lifts his staff (as noted in the text); armour and magic armour lower by 10; preparation for Void of EternityVoid of Eternity: does extreme damage to all waking targets, but fails against those targets who are asleep; cancels Mystic Chant buff, thus lowering magic attack by 20 points and removing the 10 evasion buff; armour and magic armour raises by 10-10 after this attack firesEther Transfer: drains a modest amount of MP from a target and restores that amount of HP to Kamalla-NotaiElement of Spirit AttacksCoalesce: lasts for 3 rounds; during those rounds, the Spirit Elemental cannot be damaged in any way, and any skills or spells which target her will simply fail outright; she does nothing else while coalescingSpirit Link: used only once, and sets up a psychic link with Kamalla-Notai which allows both of them to heal a small amount of HP per roundDream Haze: cast on both herself and on the shaman, this is a field of spiritual energy which will cause the next person to attack either of them to fall asleep after their attack is finished; this field is disrupted once attacked, which is why she recasts it so often (see below)Delirium: a debuff cast on all party members which attempts to inflict poison, silence, sleep and confusion; has a 10% chance to fail on each attempted malediction, per character (thus making it unlikely for the entire party of 3 to be afflicted with all three maladies at once)Mind to Mind: Reaches out to touch the mind of one of the party members at random; this party member will always miss when targeting the spirit or the shaman until the link is broken; the link breaks on its own after Mental Anguish (see below) or after another character damages the spiritMental Anguish: does fairly large damage, and targets the victim of Mind to Mind (which means it is possible to fail if that link has been cancelled); after being inflicted with Mental Anguish, the target takes small damage every round and becomes immune to sleep until battle ends or until they diePsychic Illusions: When the spirit reaches the 15%HP threshold, she will cast this spell. She summons three copies each of herself and the shaman. These copies have a chance to intercept an incoming attack, and if they do, the attacker takes that damage instead, and the illusion perishes. The illusions cannot attack, never fade on their own, and essentially mean that for a short time, the likelihood of actually doing damage to the shaman or the spirit is drastically lowered.Attack Pattern (shaman)Mystic Chant, Lightwarp, Hypnotic Orb, Troubled Dreams, Nightmare, Raise Staff, Void of Eternity, skip turn, Ether Transfer, repeatElement of Spirit AttacksCoalesce, Coalesce, Coalesce, Dream Haze, Spirit Link, Mind to Mind, Dream Haze, Delirium, Mental Anguish, Dream Haze, Mind to Mind, Dream Haze, Delirium, Mental Anguish, repeat (ignoring Coalesce)Hard Mode: Psychic Illusions happens at 30% HP instead of 15% HP; if the shaman is killed first on Hard Mode, it will cast Hypnotic Orb three times in a row (once on each target), then cast Nightmare before dying.Now obviously, this thing will change if and when I ever get a chance to make my RPG and really run with it, but hopefully you can see that there's plenty of complexity here. Make all your chars stay awake, and you're going to take enormous damage. Let them get put to sleep, and obviously they can't react to other stuff, and it lets the spirit element
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax When you have the freedom to use your biggest spells or skills every round, sure. That's what Entombed boils down to, and by and large, that's what AHC boils down to.But what about bosses that can paralyze you? Bosses which will actually react to AoE attacks by using attacks you aren't prepared to handle? Bosses which will protect themselves against things, such that if all you do is just mash, you're going to die? If games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI and IV and X and stuff were so simple, why did people get stuck on certain bosses? I'll give you a hint; it wasn't just because those bosses had good stats. It's because those bosses did particularly creative things and stopped you from just hitting "attack" every round.The Magus Sisters from FFIV, Magus from Chrono Trigger, Yunaleska or Seymour Flux for normal in-game bosses for Final Fantasy X (really, all the Seymour fights were decent, but this was perhaps the best), Atma Weapon or even Whelk/Presenter from Final Fantasy VI. Bosses have gimmicks. They have weak points. They have big attacks. And there's a great deal of customization in who you bring to a given fight. This is, IMO, its own sort of difficulty. Sure it's ultimately simplistic in its mechanics, but (and I pray you take this in the way I intend) bigger is not always better. There is a reason why certain RPGs sold like hotcakes long, long after such memory limitations were no longer a problem. Sure, the story is there, and I want to use that. Sure, the exploration and lore and world were there, and I want that too. But part of it was the combat. People liked it. It was engaging. It wasn't just random and nonsensical or heartlessly RNG the whole way through (this is Entombed's biggest failing, in fact). I'm 100% okay with this not being your cup of tea, but definitely not so okay with what looks like dismissal of the turn-based genre of RPG. It's been done loads of times, and continues being done to some extent, and it -does work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570526/#p570526 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Okay, Canlorn, here's the deal:World of Warcraft and, say, Chrono Trigger have entirely different styles of combat.The former can be hard because you're teaming up with other players (or not) and you're doing things like calculate DPS, test reaction speed and whatnot. Chrono Trigger is hard because bosses (and even regular enemies sometimes) do very specific things which require time to think and plan. One game, or game type, prioritizes things like speed and reaction time; the other prioritizes a different sort of strategy.There is absolutely a bit of bias talking here, but it isn't ignorance, the way you may be thinking. I, personally, happen to prefer turn-based stuff, not because it's easier to code (I'll get to this in a sec) but because it's the sort of game I enjoy when it's done well. Entombed, BTW, is manifestly -not done well, as it's too random. AHC tries, but again, it's not done especially well here. Things like Shadow Rine are a bit more action-focused than I prefer, but they absolutely do have their place. In addition, I have believed for quite awhile that if I could play games like WoW, I'd probably enjoy them immensely.But the reality of the situation, for me at least, is pretty straightforward. I like turn-based combat, it's much, much easier to code, and I don't code. Believe me, I've tried. I can write like nobody's business, and I can design monsters and storylines and stat systems and whatnot, but I can't actually write the code to make it happen. So if I want not only the sort of game I'd like to play, but also want to up the level of turn-based RPGs while simultaneously setting the entry point in a position where everybody wins in the end, this is where I'm at. I'm not knocking active combat, and I'd happily play an MMO-style RPG if given a chance; it is just not something I personally want to do, especially not at first. As you pointed out, most people don't have the chops to make it work, and as such, I know which way the wind is blowing. I am by no means trying to discourage people from making games like World of Warcraft. I just want to make a game more like the JRPGs I know and love, because we really don't have many of those, and those we -do have haven't done nearly the sort of things they could have done IMO. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570511/#p570511 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Oh, there is definitely a place for non turn-based stuff. I just think that we should have more turn-based JRPG-style RPGs, which means that combat is sort of its own thing and probably a whole lot simpler than some of these engines and mechanics can top out with. It's not like a real-time combat where physics matter quite as much, but I'd still like the idea of that more immersive audio world to traverse. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570458/#p570458 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Another layman-type question here.So when you play something like Manamon, environments are their own little pocket universes. Even if there's an NPC right inside the door of a hotel, you don't hear them till you step in.Something like AHC, for instance, will let you hear through fences and hedges and thickets, but not through walls.If my own RPG ever works out, I'd love for there to be differences. For instance, if you go to someone's house and they're very near the market, and the market is busy and boisterous by day, it would be cool if you could hear that ambiance, though muted, while in their home. By contrast, it would be neat if, in a stone tower with thick walls, outside sound just didn't come in at all. I don't know how fiddly that is, or if I'm hoping for too much for an audio RPG there. These details are meant more for immersion than for any functional benefit, for the most part. I think it's AHC that has me curious here, because that game's overall soundscaping is beautiful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570404/#p570404 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Well, in the RPG I'm planning, we're talking about random encounters and turn-based combat, so that sort of cheating wouldn't matter much. Also, bosses at fixed, scripted points on the map (step on this tile, boss fight ensues). But I see what you're saying, too, and of course you're right; if you want to create enormous maps, especially with a lot of wide-open space or a lot of city blocks or streets or whatnot, this would be painful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570173/#p570173 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Earwax
Re: Earwax Layman question here.How did A Hero's Call do it? How did Manamon do it (yes, I know they're vastly different)?And why wouldn't either of those work? I feel like I'm missing something really, really obvious. It took me awhile, but I grew to love AHC's navigation system, all the zoning and stuff. I suspect it might have been hell to set up, but as someone who still has hopes of making a quality RPG one day, I figure the more I know, even if I'm not a programmer, the better armed I'll be. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/570164/#p570164 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Posts 1 and 5 will tell you most of what you might want to know about it.Turn-based combattop-down navigation preferred, though I'd be happy to switch this up to an AHC-style movement setupCombat where certain enemy AI is reactive (i.e., if you cast a fire spell, it will respond with a water spell, or drop its defense, etc)Bosses that have patterns of attacks that can change (i.e., use attacks 1-2-3-4-5-1 etc in phase 1, but after a trigger, switches to a pattern of 2-4-3-4-2 etc).Armour and weapon slots specific to characters (i.e., each piece of gear is wearable by only one char)Accessories that can be equipped by anyone, everything from things that boost a stat, to stuff that increases regen or provides elemental immunity/absorption, etc.Skills learned by level-up, each char locked into a specific classA "hard mode" which slightly changes the game by changing AI a little in certain situations, raising levels and giving each char a different class (Brek goes from assassin to illusionist, etc.)Lots of quests and side contentIdeally a full sound track and soundscapes, including voice acting when we're close to finishingI intend this to be a paid project if possible and I'd be willing to work out terms for that.Figuring that a full playthrough would take 15-20 hours or so, so I'm not talking about something you can speedrun in forty-five minutes.If you want or need more info, please let me know. I get the sense we might not be looking at quite the same thing (you seem more interested in active combat, aka Shadow Rine), but let me know in any case. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/538882/#p538882 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! There is no tearing rush to do this. I'd like to get it rolling, of course, but it's not like I'm fending off potential help with a stick. Heh.Story and gameplay is the part of design I feel that I'm best at, so it might be a nice fit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/538698/#p538698 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! This does lead me to one question:This game was proposed before A Hero's Call, and while I was on the dev team for a short while, it didn't last. I actually quite like the movement style in that game. How difficult would it be from a coding or sound-design standpoint to do that, as opposed to a tile-based top-down view? Because I'm willing to adjust that part of design if for some reason a full 2d map experience is better. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/536449/#p536449 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Well, they aren't really steps forward at this point. lol This game has been in hiatus for the better part of two years. Admittedly, I spent most of that time in school and up to my ears in schoolwork. Really, I was taking a gamble here, thought maybe I could use the downtime during the pandemic. Even then, though, the right time might have been three months ago. Bah. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/536439/#p536439 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Whoo! So, topic necromancy ahoy. But this is my thread, and yes, there is a point.Needless to say, this project died. But like the thread itself, it doesn't have to stay dead.I still have the design documentation I wrote originally (dug it off an old hard drive, and apparently still have a dropbox folder with stuff in it as well). And I now have three more years of game dev under my belt, enough to say that while previous posts herein weren't awful, they were a lot more scattered. Put more bluntly, I have much better ideas of what I want and what will make sense from a development perspective.the programmer that I found, I haven't spoken to in some time, but given the state of the world right now, I thought I'd revive this and see if anyone is interested in maybe helping me dust this off and making a go of it. If not, I will totally understand - I had some hype going, and it fizzled, and I'm sorry about that - but I thought it was worth a shot. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/536405/#p536405 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You have one point that I'll acknowledge. You would not be responsible for the issue that causes a game to be problematic in the first place. Obviously, copyrighted assets are not your fault, and a user should not be blamed if they report another user for breaking a rule.What I'm saying is that I don't think you'd be reporting other games in good faith. You're not doing it because you actually care that game A broke rule 3; you'd be doing it because your game broke a rule and got called on it. Spin it how you want, but that's the behaviour I wanted to flag for other users.The "loophole" in rule 3 is not a loophole, and it's not about me.First, I've seen other admins besides myself nail copyright stuff that I didn't catch or didn't get to, so please don't make this about me and about my personal crusade. This is a forum protection issue, and I wasn't the only one to suggest rule 3. If you want the truth, I wasn't even the first, but once I realized the potential mess that could result if we didn't clean things up, I came on board with it. Stop the personal targeting. I'm loud, but that's because I'm one of the more vocal members of the staff team in the first place. I suspected I would be even when I came into the job in 2018.Secondly, pretty much from the get-go, we've been of the opinion that while copyright is important, it's really not within our scope right now - especially not at the moment - to go plugging through all games to winnow out copyrighted assets. You really need to get a firm grasp on the concept of plausible deniability. This database is really big, and our admin base is really small, and the number of people who have used stuff they shouldn't have is probably bigger than any of us would care to admit. We have a responsibility to act on what we know, in my opinion, and to make reasonable efforts to stay abreast of what is breaking our rules. I do think this means a slow and systematic examination of the database, yes, so if you want to help, in the spirit of truly aiding us? Go for it. What it doesn't mean, however, is that when your chosen hobby-horse gets the spotlight, suddenly we're monstrous hypocrites for not axing seventy-seven games on the same day. If this even goes anywhere, it's going to take time, and we're going to be as fair and as gentle about it as we can be. Remember, throughout, that so far, the staff stance is actually to let CP slide; I don't personally agree with it, but I'm outvoted at the moment, so for now, none of you even have anything to worry about. Don't lose sight of that. The point is, however, that this is not a loophole. We've been operating on an "if we see it, we deal with it" basis, a reactionary platform, pretty much as long as I've known the forum. I don't see that changing anytime soon.The TL.DR of my last post in particular is that if you're going to throw other games under the bus after arguing how we shouldn't take CP away from the forum, you're doing it in bad faith and I am not afraid to call it like it is. What I'm not doing is blaming people for bringing legit issues to us because they truly want the issue fixed; that, in fact, is laudable, and I hope you generally continue to do that.I'm done here. This thread may as well be dead. Pragma has said no, so any sound dev seems pointless. This argument is circular, and I'm through justifying myself at this stage. Whatever will happen will happen. If you reply to my last points herein, I won't deign to respond unless a breach of rules is involved. Good day to you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531746/#p531746 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You have one point that I'll acknowledge. You would not be responsible for the issue that causes a game to be problematic in the first place. Obviously, copyrighted assets are not your fault, and a user should not be blamed if they report another user for breaking a rule.What I'm saying is that I don't think you'd be reporting other games in good faith. You're not doing it because you actually care that game A broke rule 3; you'd be doing it because your game broke a rule and got called on it. Spin it how you want, but that's the behaviour I wanted to flag for other users.The "loophole" in rule 3 is not a loophole, and it's not about me.First, I've seen other admins besides myself nail copyright stuff that I didn't catch or didn't get to, so please don't make this about me and about my personal crusade. This is a forum protection issue, and I wasn't the only one to suggest rule 3. If you want the truth, I wasn't even the first, but once I realized the potential mess that could result if we didn't clean things up, I came on board with it. Stop the personal targeting. I'm loud, but that's because I'm one of the more vocal members of the staff team in the first place. I suspected I would be even when I came into the job in 2018.Secondly, pretty much from the get-go, we've been of the opinion that while copyright is important, it's really not within our scope right now - especially not at the moment - to go plugging through all games to winnow out copyrighted assets. You really need to get a firm grasp on the concept of plausible deniability. This database is really big, and our admin base is really small, and the number of people who have used stuff they shouldn't have is probably bigger than any of us would care to admit. We have a responsibility to act on what we know, in my opinion, and to make reasonable efforts to stay abreast of what is breaking our rules. I do think this means a slow and systematic examination of the database, yes, so if you want to help, in the spirit of truly aiding us? Go for it. What it doesn't mean, however, is that when your chosen hobby-horse gets the spotlight, suddenly we're monstrous hypocrites for not axing seventy-seven games on the same day. If this even goes anywhere, it's going to take time, and we're going to be as fair and as gentle about it as we can be. Remember, throughout, that so far, the staff stance is actually to let CP slide; I don't personally agree with it, but I'm outvoted at the moment, so for now, none of you even have anything to worry about. Don't lose sight of that. The point is, however, that this is not a loophole. We've been operating on an "if we see it, we deal with it" basis, a reactionary platform, pretty much as long as I've known the forum. I don't see that changing anytime soon.The TL.DR of my last post in particular is that if you're going to throw other games under the bus after arguing how we shouldn't take CP away from the forum, you're doing it in bad faith and I am not afraid to call it like it is. What I'm not doing is blaming people for bringing legit issues to us because they truly want the issue fixed; that, in fact, is laudable, and I hope you generally continue to do that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531746/#p531746 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You know how sometimes we pounce on a particular breach of copyright right away, while others slide under the radar for awhile? This goes for games and copyrighted assets, VM stuff, audio description, etc. If we see it, we do something about it, but we are not making an active effort to comb through absolutely everything to retroactively update it.That's what has been happening, and will continue to happen.If you want to alert us to known issues of pirated assets, you are forcing those examples into the spotlight. In other words, you are 1. making our lives harder (which is fine, by the way) and 2. also alerting us to potential copyright and piracy-related transgressions. Basically, for every game or asset that's gone unexamined before now that you bring to us, you will be partially responsible when and if we have to stop supporting it. You'll try and blame it on us, but the reality is that if you hadn't gone and dug it up, we might not have bothered processing it. Take Jim Kitchen's stuff, for example; the man has died, and there is no way that he can update his own work, so there is no chance of him being in any way able to comply with a request to update his audio assets.Nidza07, you want to make us look like horrible people for processing hundreds of audio games or whatnot, but if you do what you say you're going to, then it will be you who shares equal responsibility. After all, the forum has historically taken a "don't ask, don't tell" stance on such things, particularly in free titles. If you don't tell us about it, or it isn't super obvious, then we probably don't care yet, and if bad stuff ends up happening (as truly unlikely as that is, I admit) there is plausible deniability. We did not know that resource x had copyrighted assets in it because nobody told us and it is beyond the scope of a small handful of people to process every single game in such a huge database.I'm going to say this with no bark on it, so to speak.If someone reading this legitimately wants to help us clean up copyright issues, that's cool. It's a huge task, it's not something I enjoy doing, but if we want to maintain rule 3, it's something we can't just indefinitely ignore.However, in your case, Nidza07, as well as at least one other person I could name but for now will not, you're clearly not doing this because you want to help the community. You're basically saying that if a game you like gets trashed, then other games should get trashed as well. Not because you actually believe it should happen, but because you can't stand that your game of choice contains literally hundreds of pirated assets and stands so clearly in the spotlight. It's not good will, it's vengeance. And vengeance is no way to try and assist a community. I know a temper tantrum when I see it, bro, and this "I'm going to report everything, see how you like that" definitely counts, because you don't agree with copyright and you don't agree with our support of rule 3.Again, you're trying to bluff. I just want it out here, understood loud and clear, that if you start this process, you're partially responsible for it. If you force us to escalate, then no one is going to pass the buck and blame us.Because the alternative is a free-for-all where copyright is just a suggestion, and owner rights really don't matter unless someone arbitrarily decides they matter. And no, we are not going back to that.So if you want to up the ante, go ahead. But I, for one, won't feel a need to take all the blame for what happens as a result, because every new thing you force us to deal with, instead of letting us stumble onto it on our own, is one more thing the community may lose, in part because of a dev who used copyrighted assets and in part because of you, who couldn't leave an admittedly imperfect system alone and had to try and play for all or nothing.A quick edit, because I just thought of this: even if someone tried to report Jim Kitchen's games, I doubt that would go anywhere. They're just sort of floating around, and the creator is dead. Even if a company got hold of this and didn't like what he did, they're going to have a really difficult time prosecuting a dead man, and knowing this, I don't see them wanting to bother. CP and KitchensInc are in totally different ballparks. And no, that doesn't make using copyrighted sounds okay, but it also doesn't mean they're totally equal either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531734/#p531734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You know how sometimes we pounce on a particular breach of copyright right away, while others slide under the radar for awhile? This goes for games and copyrighted assets, VM stuff, audio description, etc. If we see it, we do something about it, but we are not making an active effort to comb through absolutely everything to retroactively update it.That's what has been happening, and will continue to happen.If you want to alert us to known issues of pirated assets, you are forcing those examples into the spotlight. In other words, you are 1. making our lives harder (which is fine, by the way) and 2. also alerting us to potential copyright and piracy-related transgressions. Basically, for every game or asset that's gone unexamined before now that you bring to us, you will be partially responsible when and if we have to stop supporting it. You'll try and blame it on us, but the reality is that if you hadn't gone and dug it up, we might not have bothered processing it. Take Jim Kitchen's stuff, for example; the man has died, and there is no way that he can update his own work, so there is no chance of him being in any way able to comply with a request to update his audio assets.Nidza07, you want to make us look like horrible people for processing hundreds of audio games or whatnot, but if you do what you say you're going to, then it will be you who shares equal responsibility. After all, the forum has historically taken a "don't ask, don't tell" stance on such things, particularly in free titles. If you don't tell us about it, or it isn't super obvious, then we probably don't care, and if bad stuff ends up happening (as truly unlikely as that is, I admit) there is plausible deniability. We did not know that resource x had copyrighted assets in it because nobody told us and it is beyond the scope of a small handful of people to process every single game in such a huge database.I'm going to say this with no bark on it, so to speak.If someone reading this legitimately wants to help us clean up copyright issues, that's cool. It's a huge task, it's not something I enjoy doing, but if we want to maintain rule 3, it's something we can't just indefinitely ignore.However, in your case, Nidza07, as well as at least one other person I could name but for now will not, you're clearly not doing this because you want to help the community. You're basically saying that if a game you like gets trashed, then other games should get trashed as well. Not because you actually believe it should happen, but because you can't stand that your game of choice contains literally hundreds of pirated assets and stands so clearly in the spotlight. It's not good will, it's vengeance. And vengeance is no way to try and assist a community. I know a temper tantrum when I see it, bro, and this "I'm going to report everything, see how you like that" definitely counts, because you don't agree with copyright and you don't agree with our support of rule 3.Again, you're trying to bluff. I just want it out here, understood loud and clear, that if you start this process, you're partially responsible for it. If you force us to escalate, then no one is going to pass the buck and blame us.Because the alternative is a free-for-all where copyright is just a suggestion, and owner rights really don't matter unless someone arbitrarily decides they matter. And no, we are not going back to that.So if you want to up the ante, go ahead. But I, for one, won't feel a need to take all the blame for what happens as a result, because every new thing you force us to deal with, instead of letting us stumble onto it on our own, is one more thing the community may lose, in part because of a dev who used copyrighted assets and in part because of you, who couldn't leave an admittedly imperfect system alone and had to try and play for all or nothing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531734/#p531734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Carter has already come in here saying that it might be worthwhile to consider reporting CP to Nintendo. This, again, does not mean any decision is being made, so don't take it as such, but I am not the only one who cares about this. I just happen to be the loudest.But you have yourself to thank for this, not me. You toss this game in our faces every time any other copyright issue comes up. You and others, of course; you aren't alone. So in the interest of minimizing hypocrisy, it makes sense that something has to be done. Because if we do something, we're horrible for removing CP or threatening it or whatever. And if we don't, then we're horrible hypocrites who are using personal bias to make decisions. It's lose-lose. Isn't that fun? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531714/#p531714 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Unfortunately, if Pragma's not moving on this, then doing the sound work seems kind of pointless now. Obviously I can't stop people and don't want to discourage them. I just don't see a point.Meatbag, just a quick heads-up: casting shade on something and then refusing to try and prove it is a pretty slimy thing to do. It's like, "Hey, take a look at this maybe suspicious thing. Why is it suspicious? Well it may not be but you should look anyway because...well because I said so". No, no, and no. Do you have any indication that Manamon or Manamon 2 have copyrighted assets to which Aaron Baker has no distributive rights? If so, feel free to bring them up. If not, all you're really doing is trying to make Aaron Baker look bad, or take some of the heat off CP, neither of which is helpful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531707/#p531707 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Unfortunately, if Pragma's not moving on this, then doing the sound work seems kind of pointless now. Obviously I can't stop people and don't want to discourage them. I just don't see a point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531707/#p531707 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Again, Meatbag, if you have proof, I'm all ears. You're quite right, of course; just claiming you have permission doesn't actually mean that you have the right to use the asset, especially if it's a paid product you're spreading about.I say it's a slap in the face because what it's literally saying is that the game's merit is not in its playability, it's in its sound design. But while the sound design is undeniably a part of the appeal, I have trouble believing that the -primary reason - that word primary is important, take note, please - that people play CP is for its sound design. If it had terrible mini-games or battle cards, it wouldn't work. If its connectivity was bad, it wouldn't fly. No. It works because it gets players to compete against each other, or in some cases team up with each other. It works because it plays to both the card-battle and Mario Party aesthetic. The sound design is cool, but it's extra. You could remove it, replace it with something else, and CP would still be a very good game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531701/#p531701 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Can you prove that Manamon has stolen those songs? It absolutely does have assets from various places, and the credits will list those places. But to my understanding, everything it's got was either made in house, paid for, or is legally allowed under some sort of use agreement.While I agree that copyrighted assets are never a good thing, I think the reason that CP comes under such heavy fire is because instead of talking about 2-3 assets, we're talking about literally hundreds. As in, the fair majority of its musical assets and probably a fair portion of its sound effects as well. That's pretty unprecedented. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531694/#p531694 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I also repudiate utterly the notion that Crazy Party isn't Crazy Party without pirated assets. That's just silly.The game succeeds or fails based on its games, both battle and board. While I admit that the retro feel is cool and all, if your argument boils down to "it's not the same unless we have stolen sounds", then you're tacitly saying that the game isn't really even its own entity. That's a pretty big slap in the face to Pragma, honestly.If the game had had different but similarly retro sound and music from the start, are you trying to tell me it would have failed? Get real. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531688/#p531688 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Please bear in mind that no, this is not an ultimatum. I neither have the authority to issue such a thing, nor the desire to do so without a full staff consult first.What I am saying is that Pragma has decided that it is more important to him to maintain his game's pirated assets than to comply with this community's stance on copyright. Given that this community has been one of the ways that his game has achieved popularity, I personally have a bit of a problem with this stance, but he's free to maintain it if he wishes.That said, we have taken a firmer stance on anti-piracy in the last year or so, and one of the things constantly brought up is that stuff like Crazy Party has gotten a free pass. I'm getting mighty tired of this. You want other things to get a free pass, so you cite that Crazy Party still has community support as a means of saying that other stuff, like the vault, should also have community support. And when it is even gently suggested that we withdraw support for Crazy Party, everybody freaks out.Essentially, Crazy Party is your ace in the hole. It is the one thing you can invoke to try and prove hypocrisy, because you scream too loudly when we talk about not supporting it anymore. That's extremely convenient, and it needs to end because the argument isn't even an argument anymore. it's just a means by which you can supposedly prove incompetence or inconsistency.And you know what? You're right. It's inconsistent. That's what this thread was trying to address. That's why I advocated that we stop supporting the game until or unless it met our standards, which it currently does not. I would far rather see it meet reasonable standards than simply be blacklisted, but I think one or the other should happen, because now the developer has been told that the community would do virtually all of the work for him, and he still refuses.I feel that one of two things should happen at this stage:1. Before anything else, Crazy Party should be brought to the attention of the companies whose assets it is using, and proof of this communication should be provided so that there is no chance that someone simply makes a claim without actually following through. Sad as it is, I could see some folks claiming they contacted Nintendo, only for it later to come out that the supposed email had been a fake. This would, of course, serve as a no-risk means of satisfying this requirement, but under false pretenses, and we can't have that. If reasonable time goes by where these companies do not respond in any way, then the game will receive full community support until such time that definitive legal action is taken against it. In other words, if the big companies truly don't care, or see it as a media horrorshow, this would pretty much guarantee safety for the game in perpetuity and would silence all of the arguments about its legality. license holders would have had a reasonable chance to object and, having not taken it, we could simply continue as before.2. If this option is refused, and if Pragma insists on not allowing the game to have its copyrighted assets removed, then having been given ample chance to right the situation, Crazy Party should lose all audiogames.net community support until such time that its copyrighted assets are removed. This would mean that simply discussing the game is perfectly okay. Passing out links to decks, since they're just text files, would be okay. We'd probably ask you to share save files privately, and we'd ask you not to encourage people to play Crazy Party in public. We'd have to take the DB entry down, and we'd have to enforce rule 3 roughly the same way we're doing with the vault right now.This is my personal stance. I do not speak for the staff team at this point. For those of you asking why we can't just go back to the way it was, and continue providing an exception? Well, you have the folks who use CP as a scapegoat to thank for this. When we have legitimate grounds to remove support for something, I'm tired of having this thrown in our collective faces. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531684/#p531684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Please bear in mind that no, this is not an ultimatum. I neither have the authority to issue such a thing, nor the desire to do so without a full staff consult first.What I am saying is that Pragma has decided that it is more important to him to maintain his game's pirated assets than to comply with this community's stance on copyright. Given that this community has been one of the ways that his game has achieved popularity, I personally have a bit of a problem with this stance, but he's free to maintain it if he wishes.That said, we have taken a firmer stance on anti-piracy in the last year or so, and one of the things constantly brought up is that stuff like Crazy Party has gotten a free pass. I'm getting mighty tired of this. You want other things to get a free pass, so you cite that Crazy Party still has community support as a means of saying that other stuff, like the vault, should also have community support. And when it is even gently suggested that we withdraw support for Crazy Party, everybody freaks out.Essentially, Crazy Party is your ace in the hole. It is the one thing you can invoke to try and prove hypocrisy, because you scream too loudly when we talk about not supporting it anymore. That's extremely convenient, and it needs to end because the argument isn't even an argument anymore. it's just a means by which you can supposedly prove incompetence or inconsistency.And you know what? You're right. It's inconsistent. That's what this thread was trying to address. That's why I advocated that we stop supporting the game until or unless it met our standards, which it currently does not. I would far rather see it meet reasonable standards than simply be blacklisted, but I think one or the other should happen, because now the developer has been told that the community would do virtually all of the work for him, and he still refuses.This is my personal stance. I do not speak for the staff team at this point. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531684/#p531684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Well, unfortunately this sounds as if Pragma would rather have audiogames.net stop supporting his game than have people update his sounds for him.What this would mean is that the game can no longer have a DB entry, can't be linked to, and when new betas come out, they can be talked about but, again, not linked to. Under rule 3, the game will become a lot like the vault. We can't stop you playing it, we can't stop you talking about it entirely, but we can enforce rule 3 if you're trying to encourage people to play it or download it.That is my understanding at present. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531661/#p531661 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing You know what, Defender? You're absolutely right.I tried to let this get back on topic, but did not react well afterword. That much I'll fully own, and I'm sorry. Carry on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531453/#p531453 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I'm sorry for not possessing the requisite telepathy or telemetry necessary for me to realize that your windows don't open. I didn't mean to exclude people in your predicament, since I'm sure that yelling that you're a hemophilic is something you would otherwise be potentially willing to do. Heh. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531442/#p531442 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing One quick point, though:Do you understand the concept of a thought experiment?Because that's pretty much what this was.People were bound and determined that big companies don't care, but in a hypothetical scenario, when challenged to defend that position, they said it's not worth the risk. To say it isn't worth the risk implies that there -is a risk to begin with.If I challenge you right now to open the nearest window and yell "I'm a hemophiliac!" many people won't bother, but they won't be refusing because they're afraid of harm. They'll be refusing because it's silly, or because they just flat can't be bothered. Know why? Because while yelling "I'm a hemophiliac!" out your window might draw stares and make you sound weird, it also won't constitute a threatening action of any kind. It is a zero-risk action, so refusal will not be based on an assessment of reprisal.Your reaction to my fictitious proposal to report CP to Nintendo, even after I proposed it as an experiment, exposed that there is, in fact, a risk in doing so. In fact, I'd even argue that your vehemence on the subject suggests that you know damn well that the risk is bigger than perhaps you'd like to credit, but it's easier to maintain the fiction that big companies don't care than it is to test that theory. It does not mean I wish to do it (in fact, did I not say that I'd prefer not to?). It does not state that I think it's best. So all your talk of how I'm risking the community for one game just tells me that you missed the point entirely. You were so focused on how dangerous and awful and self-centered and whatever else my actions would be that you failed to note that I have not acted, and do not intend to act, in this capacity at all.Basic psychology at its best. Thank you for demonstrating the efficacy of thought experiments. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531430/#p531430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Nidza07, if you can't be bothered because there's a teeny tiny chance that Nintendo will care, then you are tacitly admitting that big companies sometimes do care about what we get up to. Thank you. You've just proven my point for me. By acknowledging that there's a chance a big cashed-up corporation could cause a lot of headaches for someone who doesn't mean harm, you are accepting indirectly that the "they don't care" argument is busted. Just move on from it. That's my best advice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531420/#p531420 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Nidza07,Please go back and very, very carefully read my post.It is a challenge to those people who say that large companies don't care. It is manifestly -not me making a threat or claiming that I actually believe that large companies don't care. In fact, I feel that the opposite is true. My statement that I am willing to reach out to Nintendo is merely an indication that I would be willing to test the theory. That said, I would really rather not, and have no immediate intention of doing so. Given my anti-capitalist personal feelings, I hope that's clear enough for you.Because the likely outcome of this is that nobody will take this challenge because they know the truth. That very likely CP would bring at least some sort of trouble for Pragma if Nintendo got wind. I might be wrong, of course - that's true now, and it's true of anyone, anytime - but that's my view on it.My challenge was meant to silence the "big companies don't care" argument. Some care more than others, to be sure, but most companies don't like it when folks use hundreds of their copyrighted assets. It tends to upset them, and I think arguing otherwise is (yup, here it comes) an argument made in bad faith.Let me put this another way.I think most of you making that argument know damn well that Nintendo might cause Pragma some grief, so I thought it high time to call your bluff. It's really only that simple.The best thing, I think, is for us to generally accept that there's a strong likelihood that if word of CP hit the wrong ears, there might be trouble. Let's dispense with the fiction that big companies don't care. Even if I, personally, don't believe that they really should in a case like this. As has been pointed out, the measurable harm done by projects like this is minimal enough that trying to crush it might not be worthwhile, and might represent poor PR. Believe me, I hear that.Now, I recommend we bring this back to its intended topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531401/#p531401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Nidza07,Please go back and very, very carefully read my post.It is a challenge to those people who say that large companies don't care. It is manifestly -not me making a threat or claiming that I actually believe that large companies don't care. In fact, I feel that the opposite is true. My statement that I am willing to reach out to Nintendo is merely an indication that I would be willing to test the theory. That said, I would really rather not, and have no immediate intention of doing so. Given my anti-capitalist personal feelings, I hope that's clear enough for you.Because the likely outcome of this is that nobody will take this challenge because they know the truth. That very likely CP would bring at least some sort of trouble for Pragma if Nintendo got wind. I might be wrong, of course - that's true now, and it's true of anyone, anytime - but that's my view on it.My challenge was meant to silence the "big companies don't care" argument. Some care more than others, to be sure, but most companies don't like it when folks use hundreds of their copyrighted assets. It tends to upset them, and I think arguing otherwise is (yup, here it comes) an argument made in bad faith.Let me put this another way.I think most of you making that argument know damn well that Nintendo might cause Pragma some grief, so I thought it high time to call your bluff. It's really only that simple.So stop trying to make this about me. Stop trying to claim that I'm killing the forum, because I'm clearly not. Stop trying to justify yourself at every turn, because I'm sorry, but it's really not working.Now, I recommend we bring this back to its intended topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531401/#p531401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Here's a challenge for any of you thinking that the big companies don't care.Is anyone brave enough to reach out to Nintendo to tell them about Crazy Party, and to divulge just how many assets have been used in its creation?Because if you're not, it implies that you believe that Nintendo will, in fact, object. This will quickly put the lie to your conviction. So I'm throwing down the gauntlet here. I'd like to see one of you touting the "big companies don't care" rhetoric go and try to contact Nintendo about Crazy Party, in the spirit of informing said company, who doesn't care anyway, that an independent developer has created a free game for no commercial gain whatsoever which happens to be using hundreds of copyrighted assets. If it's really as easy as you say, and as harmless as you believe, this endeavour should be entirely risk-free, right?I'd be brave enough to do it, and can if you folks wish, but I think it really ought to come from someone who is convinced that no harm will come of it. I...am not nearly so convinced, though, so perhaps this little experiment will be enough to give you folks some pause, and some cause for concern.Okay, Americranian, the only reason I'm waving a general caution flag - remember, I didn't put my mod hat on for that - is essentially to say "Whoa, let's not cause fights". I saw the potential for there to start being attacks thrown, both from Alireza (whose accusations I find amusing) and you yourself (since your defense of me, I believe it was you anyway, was both fierce and perhaps a little overdone). No one is in any trouble, it wasn't done officially; take it as one user saying to a bunch of others, "Hey, let's not let this get out of hand", that's all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531343/#p531343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Here's a challenge for any of you thinking that the big companies don't care.Is anyone brave enough to reach out to Nintendo to tell them about Crazy Party, and to divulge just how many assets have been used in its creation?Because if you're not, it implies that you believe that Nintendo will, in fact, object. This will quickly put the lie to your conviction. So I'm throwing down the gauntlet here. I'd like to see one of you touting the "big companies don't care" rhetoric go and try to contact Nintendo about Crazy Party, in the spirit of informing said company, who doesn't care anyway, that an independent developer has created a free game for no commercial gain whatsoever which happens to be using hundreds of copyrighted assets. If it's really as easy as you say, and as harmless as you believe, this endeavour should be entirely risk-free, right?Okay, Americranian, the only reason I'm waving a general caution flag - remember, I didn't put my mod hat on for that - is essentially to say "Whoa, let's not cause fights". I saw the potential for there to start being attacks thrown, both from Alireza (whose accusations I find amusing) and you yourself (since your defense of me, I believe it was you anyway, was both fierce and perhaps a little overdone). No one is in any trouble, it wasn't done officially; take it as one user saying to a bunch of others, "Hey, let's not let this get out of hand", that's all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531343/#p531343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I just want to take a quick second to wave a caution flag here. No one is in trouble, but please, please, let's not start fighting.Pragma, I understand what you're saying, though I don't agree with you. I respect that you, personally, do not have a problem using copyrighted assets, and that you don't want to upset the people who previously helped with sound design. The problem is that whether you personally have an issue or not, the game -does step into a moral gray area, even if it's free. If audiogames.net continues to support the game, then we are also indirectly supporting the use and distribution of pirated assets. As one of the foremost sites for audio games, as a site that shows up pretty easily in a google search, and as a site that is attracting more and more mainstream-oriented developers, this is a risk that is becoming harder and harder to stomach. You clearly mean no harm, and again, I respect that. This does not, however, mean that no harm is possible based on your stance.My understanding is that while you say that redesigning sounds and music would be a huge deal, the community was in essence going to do most of that work for you. All it would have taken from you was a go-ahead that it was okay to begin the work.Lastly, someone prior to my coming and seeing your response said something about how sometimes in development, you have to tear things down. This is true. Let's say someone who used to work on the project made a battle card that was overpowered, and you realized it and made it weaker. That's not a slap in the face for them. Ditto if they gave you what you thought was an original sound which was, in fact, not original at all. The people who worked on the sound design of Crazy Party captured a lovely retro aesthetic, and a great deal of the music and sounds are very fitting to the atmosphere. Unfortunately, the issue is bigger than you and your dev team. That's all I'm trying to say.All that being said, I really hope you reconsider, as I'd hate to see such a quick community collaboration dead in the water before it even gets going.Alireza, one quick point: I hate corporations and copyright, and I've never once suggested that everyone get the same amount of points regardless of how they did. That...kind of defeats the purpose of a competition, yes? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531265/#p531265 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing Yeah, that's true. I have tons of experience with most of the source material (not quite all of it, but a lot of it), so I'd be able to see how similar it was.I suspect the music will be harder than the sounds, but honestly, anything is a good start here. This is a beast of a project and I certainly don't take it lightly.I really hope that Pragma can be convinced to be on board with this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531080/#p531080 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing
Re: Crazy party sound sourcing I just want to step in here real quick and say thank you for trying to get this ball rolling. I know it's an enormous undertaking, but the effirt is a good start.I honestly wish I could help, but I have zero music and sound-editing knowledge whatsoever, and would probably be more hindrance than anything. That said, if there -is some way I can contribute to this project, please do let me know. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/531046/#p531046 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: BGT multi player game Update sounds download problem.
Re: BGT multi player game Update sounds download problem. Moderation:I've gotten a couple of reports on this thread, and I'm not sure why.Could someone demonstrate, with some sort of proof, how this is problematic?I don't see any proprietary code here, but I am not intimately familiar with unauthorized forks and how they're coded. If someone would enlighten me a bit, I'd be happy to process this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512131/#p512131 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Randpy, a set of basic little python scripts
Re: Randpy, a set of basic little python scripts I'm not going to moderate this, and am not dropping any punishments, but I am responding to a report that was made.Ethin, seriously? I don't know what your deal is.This is clearly an attempt to help beginners with python get a leg up. Why do you really give a rip on whether or not the user uses Github? To me, you missed the entire point of this, and were a little assumptive in the bargain. You're a whole lot less inflammatory than you used to be, but I feel you definitely still have some work to do on watching how your words come across. I feel your pain there though; so do I at times.While it's true that Github is better for hosting code, really one can host whatever files they want on Dropbox, and if the emphasis was on releasing this code, vs. releasing it to your specs, I'd say the original poster did a good thing that you're sort of spitting on.In other words, cut it out. Learn to be more kind and less judgy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/473714/#p473714 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Example.bgt?
Re: Example.bgt? Uh, no.As previously stated, talking about a banned individual would be fine. But if that banned individual wanted you to post his press release for him? No, that's not gonna fly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/470025/#p470025 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Example.bgt?
Re: Example.bgt? The rule doesn't say you're not allowed to visit the forum. The rule says you're not allowed to get around your ban.Using a proxy is clearly in violation of this. If not for the proxy, the banned user would have no voice on the forum.To be clear here, if you're banned, we've decided, temporarily or otherwise, that you have lost the right to have a voice on the forum. You've done it by breaking rules, either onee in really huge fashion or in multiple smaller ways. Jaidon was more the latter case. No matter how angry you might be at someone who said or did something to you, once we've decided that you're being banned, you simply don't have a right to post here until your punishment is ended. You have every right to contact us via appropriate channels to discuss things, or even vent a little frustration, but to have someone pass a message for you, to me at least, clearly shows a willingness to skirt the rules. Lawrence, if you deliberately passed on a message from Jaidon, you can only go so far in claiming you didn't know that was punishable. To me, this is very obvious breach of the spirit of the rule. After all, if people could use others to post for them, couldn't they technically continue the same behaviour that got them banned in the first place? This is the basis for your warning which, by the way, I'm in total agreement with.Also, if any of you have fed Jaidon any info from the forum after he was banned, you're not doing him any favours. You may actually upset him, and given that he's not really able to defend himself, it feels rather one-sided. It may even have resulted in the situation outlined above, where someone took it upon themselves to act as an intermediary.If this happens again, particularly with Jaidon but also with anyone else who is banned, I will be advocating for the ban to be increased based on the level and number of infractions. Sorry, but you don't get to have your say, even through a third party, after you've given up that right with bad behaviour. If that sounds stiff, formal or even a little sharp, there's not much else I can say to you. Try not breaking rules repeatedly next time? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/469974/#p469974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Example.bgt?
Re: Example.bgt? Okay, I really hate to do this, but here goes.Moderation:Jaidon, you did not need to use personal attacks to get your point across (post 4). This was way above and beyond what was needed. Redfox was harsh with you (I'll hit on this later) but you went far above and beyond what is necessary. This would be warning-worthy on its own. As you were on watch, you're being banned for 90 days. The original punishment thread said six months, but given that this was, to my mind at least, heavily instigated, it's going to be half of that for now. I plan to talk to other staff members about it, and if we vote and it ends up being six months instead, then I'll go with that. I'm inclined to show you a little mercy only because this clearly flared very quickly and out of nowhere. Please, consider your actions and reactions more closely when you come back. You are not being banned for defending yourself. You are being banned for personally attacking Redfox. I don't care if you were trying to make a point; you were doing it badly and you did not need to slam anyone that way.Redfox, I'm going to actually issue you a caution here.Yes, RTFM (or read the fucking manual) is a thing. But it's also not realistic to expect that everyone is familiar with hacker culture and the slang it uses. I know about some bits of hacker culture, the post wasn't directed at me, and it still put my back up enough that if you'd said it to me, you'd have gotten a response like, "Excuse me? What the hell was that for?". Jaidon asked for examples on coding. Instead of, y'know, ignoring his post, or asking him if he'd read the forum, or saying "go read the manual if you haven't, then come back" or asking him to be more specific, you made the very deliberate choice to say "read the fucking manual". I have no problem with profanity, but in a phrase like this, particularly if you're not accustomed to hacker culture, it can come across as upsetting. Jaidon clearly took it as such, and I don't blame him. He is still responsible for his actions, but perhaps without intending to, you started this bonfire. Caution. Do it again, and it's a warning because now you have no excuse.You're well within your rights to express annoyance, incredulity or even some disgust if someone hasn't done their homework, so to speak. But using a phrase like this, either assuming they're literate in hacker culture or not caring whether they are or not, is just a straight-up lack of tact.End moderationOn that same note, Ethin, you're not being punished, don't worry, but as you are one of the proponents of this sort of language, I'd like to point out that people don't get a free pass just because they didn't mean harm. Normally, when people use a phrase like "go the fuck away" or "read the fucking manual" or "shut the fucking door", the expletive is meant for emphasis, or is meant to express anger, annoyance or condescension. Without tone of voice, this is very difficult to interpret. Redfox is responsible for what he says, and you can't defend him by saying "oh well it's just hacker culture, dude, so it's justified". No it's not. If I hung out in a group of people who used really offensive slang, and I then came here on the forum and used that slang and upset one of you, guess whose fault that is? Mine. And that's why Redfox has a caution. Please don't defend this behaviour. It makes you look bad.And to the rest of you, get past it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/468273/#p468273 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Example.bgt?
Re: Example.bgt? Okay, I really hate to do this, but here goes.Moderation:Jaidon, you did not need to use personal attacks to get your point across (post 4). This wa way above and beyond what was needed. Redfox was harsh with you (I'll hit on this later) but you went far above and beyond what is necessary. This would be warning-worthy on its own. As you were on watch, you're being banned for 90 days. Please, consider your actions and reactions more closely when you come back. You are not being banned for defending yourself. You are being banned for personally attacking Redfox. I don't care if you were trying to make a point; you were doing it badly and you did not need to slam anyone that way.Redfox, I'm going to actually issue you a caution here.Yes, RTFM (or read the fucking manual) is a thing. But it's also not realistic to expect that everyone is familiar with hacker culture and the slang it uses. I know about some bits of hacker culture, the post wasn't directed at me, and it still put my back up enough that if you'd said it to me, you'd have gotten a response like, "Excuse me? What the hell was that for?". Jaidon asked for examples on coding. Instead of, y'know, ignoring his post, or asking him if he'd read the forum, or saying "go read the manual if you haven't, then come back" or asking him to be more specific, you made the very deliberate choice to say "read the fucking manual". I have no problem with profanity, but in a phrase like this, particularly if you're not accustomed to hacker culture, it can come across as upsetting. Jaidon clearly took it as such, and I don't blame him. He is still responsible for his actions, but perhaps without intending to, you started this bonfire. Caution. Do it again, and it's a warning because now you have no excuse.You're well within your rights to express annoyance, incredulity or even some disgust if someone hasn't done their homework, so to speak. But using a phrase like this, either assuming they're literate in hacker culture or not caring whether they are or not, is just a straight-up lack of tact.End moderationOn that same note, Ethin, you're not being punished, don't worry, but as you are one of the proponents of this sort of language, I'd like to point out that people don't get a free pass just because they didn't mean harm. Normally, when people use a phrase like "go the fuck away" or "read the fucking manual" or "shut the fucking door", the expletive is meant for emphasis, or is meant to express anger, annoyance or condescension. Without tone of voice, this is very difficult to interpret. Redfox is responsible for what he says, and you can't defend him by saying "oh well it's just hacker culture, dude, so it's justified". No it's not. If I hung out in a group of people who used really offensive slang, and I then came here on the forum and used that slang and upset one of you, guess whose fault that is? Mine. And that's why Redfox has a caution. Please don't defend this behaviour. It makes you look bad.And to the rest of you, get past it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/468273/#p468273 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Prototyping game for blind players and need feedback
Re: Prototyping game for blind players and need feedback If you still need beta testers, I'm down to help. I've got a long history of playing games, both audio and mainstream, and I've been involved with a few games on a dev level in the past as well, so I know what constitutes good feedback vs. bad feedback. Not sure if you're still looking for help here, and if you're not, that's totally okay. I got to this party a little bit late. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/463042/#p463042 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how do you make weapons in your inventory
Re: how do you make weapons in your inventory I knew they weren't the same language entirely, obviously. I just didn't know if they were similar.For example, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are all sort of similar. They have a Latin root, so a lot of the construction is the same and you might recognize words in multiple languages at once because they're close together. I didn't/don't know if Turkish and Arabic are similar that way. Same derivation, maybe?If not, then I'm an idiot and I apologize because apparently I don't know half as much as I thought I did about this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/442309/#p442309 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how do you make weapons in your inventory
Re: how do you make weapons in your inventory Oh. My apologies then, regarding the language issue. Are Turkish and Arabic similar? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/442146/#p442146 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: how do you make weapons in your inventory
Re: how do you make weapons in your inventory Lord, do tell me something, if you can.If you're German, then why are you making the same spelling mistakes as someone who, I believe, speaks Arabic? I could get into specifics, but I suspect it will go over your head.More interestingly: why is it that when I attempt to geolocate your IP address, you're in Turkey? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/442136/#p442136 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating a Horror Audio Game - looking to exchange ideas
Re: Creating a Horror Audio Game - looking to exchange ideas I would love, absolutely love to see a game like this. Something like Silent Hill, where a lot of the focus is on riddles/exploration over run-and-gun action. I mean, I don't mind combat, and bosses and such, but if part of the fun is in playing keep-away, I'd like that.I am not a programmer, unfortunately, but I'm good when it comes to writing and general game design (i.e., story, setup, balance, that sort of thing). If I can help, let me know. Else, I'm just here to chime in that yes, a good horror game would be freaking amazing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/424924/#p424924 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: decrypting bgt stuff?
Re: decrypting bgt stuff? Moderation:I'm removing the link, but am not issuing any punishment beyond that. There is no intent to harm, or none that I can see at any rate, and it appears that this discussion is remaining fairly theoretical.I agree with the standpoint that it's okay to talk theory but not okay to post examples that the less scrupulous among us can tweak in order to deconstruct things that developers want left alone.As such, I'm just going to ask that we not trade this link around here on the forums anymore. Please don't repost it, as I will have to take punitive action if that occurs. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/416396/#p416396 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: decrypting bgt stuff?
Re: decrypting bgt stuff? I'm keeping an active eye on this topic. I definitely do not want to start seeing specific descriptions of how to break games, as BGT is still a language many devs use and we don't need them feeling as if they're going to be at risk by default. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414852/#p414852 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Hi all,So I have good news! I've got a programmer!I'm not gonna say too much more just yet, but we've already banged out a very minimalist working prototype for battle, and we'll be adding to things.I haven't any clue regarding timescale, so please don't ask. It'll take however long it takes, but this dude's fast, and he's good. And it looks like I've got a lot of work ahead of me creating content. Don't worry. I'm up to the task.We haven't yet fully discussed exactly what we're gonna do, funding-wise. That's something we can thrash out at some point. When I have more news on that front, I'll let you all know.To the person asking what sort of game this was, please read one of my earlier posts in the thread. It says quite a good deal.Over the next little bit I'm going to be reaching out to a sound designer or two so that we can talk shop. Sound design is go ing to be a decent part of this game...not integral in the sense that it needs to happen right this minute, but something I want to do justice by.If any of you have mailed me and not gotten a response, please just bear with me. I'm doing my level best to make this the best it can possibly be, on pretty much all counts. I'm assembling the tools, so to speak.Thanks so much for the enthusiasm and the support. It means a lot. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=331453#p331453 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Okay, guys,I've got a lot of things to field here, a lot of offers, and am trying to figure out how to juggle them. I've received a couple of private offers on both the programming and design front, and am getting some overwhelmingly positive feedback here publicly too. Thank you to one and all. I'm not 100% committed to any one developer yet on anything, but will be engaging in some more dialogue with a few others as of late to see what we can see.There is one thing I'm going to put my foot firmlly down upon, though, and that's combat.Turn-based is the way it's going to go. I am not willing to change on this.Real-time combat is fast and can get your adrenaline going in a specific way, and I will absolutely not take that away from it. There's a time and a place for it.But turn-based combat, where you have time to think about what you want to do, has an appeal all its own. It allows you to plan ahead a little witho ut a tight time constraint. It allows for greater strategy from bosses, since a player is actually going to have to think deeply to work around it. It also incidentally means that you can pseudo--pause the game in the middle of a fight if you want, instead of, say, getting into a boss fight you know is going to take awhile, getting a phone call, pausing the game and then hitting the unpause key and getting attacked out of nowhere.Both styles have their niche, but this is very firmly a turn-based RPG. There's not a lot I can say or do for those who don't like that particular setup, but we don't really have many of these, and I want to make a good one.And yes, I am more than happy to have things translated into other languages, since that will increase the audience and bring the experience to more people who, hopefully at least, will enjoy it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=330932#p330932 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! See, this is why I love you guys. You help me in the areas where I'm a bit ignorant.I haven't thought of a company nname or a place to host. I haven't got that far yet. As far as the voice actors you've listed...like I said, that's the last item on my list. A couple of the people on that list I can fairly safely say I won't be contacting though, as their voices just aren't suited to what I'm after. I'm actually pretty picky in some regards; if I'm gonna do voicework in this game, I want it to be of a certain quality (not caliber, as in how good it is, since I don't doubt that, but quality, as in possessed of certain qualities). So it might be a bit of a hunt to find people who fit. But let's cross that bridge if we get there. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=330561#p330561 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! A few things here. Thanks for your responses.Voice-acting will be one of the very last things I gun for. The game can live without it, but once my script is finalized, that's a time to start chasing that dream. Maybe, and only maybe, I can release the game without it first, see how much interest it generates, then use some of the money to purchase the voice talent I'm after?Regarding the discussion of communication/motivation/all that jazz, I hear ya. I'm fairly professional about this, and I'm pretty good about staying in touch. Nobody's perfect of course, but if I've got people who are committed to doing this thing, then we'll push forward and try to get stuff done.Now, as to the issue of obfuscation, let me clarify something. I'm not talking about massive encryption or whatnot here. What I want is for the game to run as an executable, and for a player to be unable to access the individual game sound/music/map files ju st by opening up the game's folder. If the folder opens and every single file the game uses is there just waiting to be accessed, that's not okay with me. But beyond that, the game will be a paid product so I do need some sort of security...but beyond that, no. It doesn't need to be so super-protected that even a pro hacker couldn't crack it. Ultimately I know that if someone really wants to break a game, they'll break it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=330525#p330525 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Hi there, and thank you for your interest!I'm not in any enormous rush to do this, so giving you a couple of months to brush up on things won't hurt me. I might be in school by January, which will limit my own time, but frankly a lot of my work is done already.I do have an iPhone, but am unused to facetime. That said, I'm willing to work with that, too, if we want to develop something going forward.An RPG is, by all accounts, fairly difficult to code, given the depth we're talking here, but it's not as hard as, say, a first-person shooter. We're looking at top-down navigation (think Manamon here for the way the character moves), and so any sound design should be pretty simple. I do want the whole game to be one package eventually, compressed in such a way that players can't pick it apart without knowing how to hack. I assume python can do this, and that if you don't yet know how, you can work that out?No, I don 39;t want any graphics in this game. They're unnecessary, as the sighted world has enough great RPGs already and the blind do not. Besides, being a non-multiplayer endeavour, using graphics is just a whole lot more headache than it's worth in my opinion.I am more than happy to try you out and to give you the time you need, given those bits of information.Now, to the community at large: do games like this usually only have one programmer, or would having, say, a pair of them working together be even more advantageous? I ask because if the latter is true, then my door is still open. No, Guitarman, I am not trying to accept you with one hand and shove you aside with the other. I want to make this thing the best that it can be, that's all. I have faith in your ability to learn and to produce good work, until or unless that faith proves unmerited. But hey, if two are better than one, then the project may benefit. Just let me know, guys. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=330449#p330449 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Just bumping this back up, as I'm still hoping for a little help.If you're interested in the project, particularly as a programmer, please say so directly. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=330382#p330382 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Kyleman123, thank you for the link and, by extension, the advice. I think I need to make a couple of things clear though.1. This game is already built, in the sense that all the formulas are worked out, and as far as I can see, the math checks out. Exact numbers on skills/spells may have to change, but I know how I want everything laid out. Ditto the game's layout, the general storyline, the way I want items to work, damage types, map details, sound details...all of it. this isn't just a spit in the wind and a list of ideas with the hope that someone does 98% of the work.2. I know from experience that the audiogame community, being fairly small on the whole, tends to be a different market entirely than the mainstream. This means that a lot of the defeatist-sounding advice in that thread you linked me to may not apply. I'm not sending my idea in full to some mainstream developer hoping they'll read it. I'm trying, essentially, to develop a small team to make an RPG. Given that it's not going to be a free project, and given that I absolutely do not expect a programmer or sound designer to work for peanuts, the idea would be to work out a financial arrangement where the team shares the profits somehow. I am not expecting to be the only one who is financially compensated here. The only hangup is that I can't pay in advance, but as far as I've ever known, this is not generally expected when people collaborate on projects, so long as financial terms are fully understood at the outset. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=328030#p328030 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Let's Build an RPG!
Re: Let's Build an RPG! Okay, you want it, you got it. *grin* I'm happy to provide more information if that will help catch people's interest.My project has something of a classic JRPG style to it. Turn-based combat, some smallish puzzles, complex and somewhat difficult boss fights, a full party of more than just one player, magic, classes, skills, all kinds of sub-quests (eventually anyway), and it's a fairly large world. Eventually you'll end up with a mode of transport that lets you get around it much more easily, but for the first fair portion of the game, you'll be relying on your own two feet and on transport items.But that's not why you're here. So this is sort of the basis for the story arc I have in mind.Your main character - who can be given a name and gender, btw - lives in a small town, living an everyday life in a world where magic is real, gods and such are at least somewhat common and creatures both common and fantastic wander the rea lm. We're talking pretty pure high fantasy/sword and sorcery here. I'm going to refer to your character as Hero for now.One day, Hero is approached by the local priest who asks a favour. His daughter is dying very slowly - the priest thinks she's sick, because she has a fever, constantly murmurs and cries and shrieks in her sleep but refuses to wake up - and he's at his wit's end. Praying hasn't helped. The local healers have done everything they can, and it seems that all they can do is keep her body alive. The priest wants you to set out on a quest for him. Scattered across the realm are eight age-old shrines which are said to be tied to the eight threads of existence: life, flame, water, air, earth, spirit, lightning and death (which are, in fact, the eight elements of magic also). He wants you to go to each shrine to petition the patron god, goddess or elemental aspect for help. It's his hope that they will intercede on his daughter' s behalf and save her, or at least grant the wisdom that will empower someone else to do it instead. Since the priest is someone Hero respects, the task is accepted. Hero's childhood friend Brek sort of ambushes Hero before they can leave the village and insists on tagging along.What follows is an adventure across the land, where you'll gather party members as you go and explore a rather large world. The gameplay will start out being fairly linear, but will start to branch off eventually (you will always have the thrust of the main quest to drive you, but there may be side-areas with equipment, quests or just some extra goodies to find). You will eventually recruit a fairly colourful cast of characters, each fulfilling a fairly typical but highly customizable combat archetype:Brek, the rogue; hotheaded but fiercely loyal; with you from the startRahl, the survivalist; used to being on his own, he's just into his middle years, doesn't say much, bu t is self-confident and strong in a quiet way; encountered relatively early in the gameTyra, the warrior: she's fierce, loud, pretty and passionate; there's no one you'd rather have as a friend when times are tough, but no one you'd rather have as an enemy either. She's always dreamed of being a soldier or a mercenary, and chafes at her father's wish that she settle down to manage the family's accounts. Joins you a little after Rahl doesCorlis, the black mage: he's big, burly, bearded and seems very happy most of the time; he's got a mean temper though. A little clumsy, but extremely good at what one might call offensive magic.Rikailin, the healer: she's small, shy, almost childlike in appearance, and has wings, but is actually not that young. She's of a different race than the other party members, and is always rather hesitant to speak much, but her gentleness and unwillingness to bend in the face of danger is an admirable combination. Probably the most selfless of the group. The party saves her from a rather unscrupulous person who wants to experiment on her.Zha-Mya, the shaman: Proud almost to the point of arrogance, Zha-Mya is the last member of the party. She communes with spirits and keeps herself apart, but has total faith in the mission the party is embarked upon. She is totally blind, but when the party meete her toward the sixty-percent mark of the game, she has a vision which causes her to pass the guidance of her people to someone else so that she can aid Hero and his friends.I plan to give each character a great deal more than this, by the way, and this is where voice-acting really is going to shine. I want these characters to live and breathe.Each character will have a general class path, but that can be switched (see below). The game will have a normal and a hard mode, and you unlock hard mode by beating normal mode. In hard mode, the characters ge t access to their second class path, which you can then use instead of the class you used to beat normal mode. Beating hard mode will let you play these new classes I mentioned in normal mode.I may think of a
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I have an overall storyline but Im not at all averse to people wanting to chip in on certain things. I have a build standard in mind, regarding tone and dialogue and all that, but Im not utterly set in stone on everything.So let me be clear. Python is probably the language to code this in? Theres been a lot of back and forth in here about using BGT or C# or Python or whatnot. Bearing in mind that a lot of the real heft of a project like this is probably going to be numeric (formulae, damage calculations, spatial awareness on a map). I dont need raw 360-degree sound output where you have to know precisely which angle something is at with relation to your own character or anything, so I probably wont need anything like vectors and such. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=205210#p205210 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help No, not a mud. More like Paladin, in that its a game with a beginning, middle and end. But I want a better story (which wont be hard), slightly more interactive maps, a much stronger combat engine (again, shouldnt be hard), story choices in certain places, and actual equipment to wear rather than just a handful of timing spells per person and coins to buy stat upgrades. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=205281#p205281 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I have no strict project deadline. Id like to see it done before, say, 2017 in general, but thats very rough. If its really good but takes awhile, then oh well.I was thinking Windows at least at first, which does make things easier. We can think about cross-platform support if it takes off later. Unless, that is, you have a good reason for doing otherwise; if you do, Ill listen. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=202478#p202478 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Ill try and address your concerns, though not necessarily in order.1. Im willing to give exp for dungeon completion, but probably only if you collect all items/chests from that dungeon. Else, you could speedrun it, get next to nothing and get reward atop reward for doing almost nothing out of the ordinary. That said, Id be happy to give rewards for that sort of thing...and yes, quest/bestiary/alchemy experience would be given to everyone. Probably wouldnt be astronomical (so you wouldnt get ten levels for an exploration bonus in one dungeon), but yes, it would give more incentive to exploring.Regarding inventory limit, I figure it is probably easier to not force players to micromanage; the party is together, so it would be easy and not really worth mentioning if they sort of juggled the items between them as needed.Regarding level gates, I dont want to use them if I can avoid it, and I think I can. Im going to force th e player to make choices where they get one of multiple paths, and in that sense they might miss skills or spells, but other than that...no. Going to your next class early shouldnt make you lose skills or spells. If it can be done, Id like to have it set up where most of your later skills/spells in the class youre going to leave behind are quest-related, oor will be learned by the class you evolve into at the appropriate level. Example: if youre a spiritualist and spiritualists learn Focus at level 26, but you turn into a monk at level 24, it wont matter because a monk will still learn focus at level 26. Conversely, if you wait to become a monk till level 35 and monks learn Choke at level 29, youd learn it instantly upon promotion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201889#p201889 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi all,I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I dont need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.So...what Im thinking is this:At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things theyre good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.Each characters class will be "adventurer" or "novice" early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if theyre novices.I dont really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.Anyway, you get to a larger area, and youre tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. Its your call who gets which profession. Eventually youll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two final classes depending on your original.Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.Brief outline of each class is below.Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesnt care much about his safety.Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.Monk: Chains bare hand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particu lar playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you arent going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You wont be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. Thats why Im seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201272#p201272 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say "Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x", whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed, which wa s buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went "[[wow]]!" when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it might be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x, whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed , which was buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went [[wow]]! when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it m ight be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi all,I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I dont need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.So...what Im thinking is this:At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things theyre good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.Each characters class will be adventurer or novice early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if theyre novices. I dont really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.Anyway, you get to a larger area, and youre tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. Its your call who gets which profession. Eventually youll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two fin al classes depending on your original.Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.Brief outline of each class is below.Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesnt care much about his safety.Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.Monk: Chains barehand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particular playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you arent going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You wont be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. Thats why Im seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201272#p201272 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi all,I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I dont need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.So...what Im thinking is this:At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things theyre good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.Each characters class will be "adventurer" or "novice" early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if theyre novices.I dont really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.Anyway, you get to a larger area, and youre tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. Its your call who gets which profession. Eventually youll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two final classes depending on your original.Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.Brief outline of each class is below.Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesnt care much about his safety.Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.Monk: Chains bare hand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particu lar playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you arent going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You wont be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. Thats why Im seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201272#p201272 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say "Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x", whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed, which wa s buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went "[[wow]]!" when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it might be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x, whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed , which was buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went [[wow]]! when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it m ight be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi all,I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I dont need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.So...what Im thinking is this:At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things theyre good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.Each characters class will be adventurer or novice early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if theyre novices. I dont really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.Anyway, you get to a larger area, and youre tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. Its your call who gets which profession. Eventually youll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two fin al classes depending on your original.Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.Brief outline of each class is below.Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesnt care much about his safety.Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.Monk: Chains barehand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particular playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you arent going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You wont be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. Thats why Im seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201272#p201272 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say "Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x", whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed, which wa s buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went "[[wow]]!" when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it might be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x, whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed , which was buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went [[wow]]! when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it m ight be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi all,I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I dont need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.So...what Im thinking is this:At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things theyre good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.Each characters class will be adventurer or novice early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if theyre novices. I dont really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.Anyway, you get to a larger area, and youre tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. Its your call who gets which profession. Eventually youll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two fin al classes depending on your original.Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.Brief outline of each class is below.Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesnt care much about his safety.Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.Monk: Chains barehand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particular playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you arent going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You wont be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. Thats why Im seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201272#p201272 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi all,I was brainstorming a bit last night, and I want some thoughts on this setup. I dont need you to commit to helping code or playtest in order to get opinions here.So...what Im thinking is this:At the very beginning of the game, you get to pick one of four characters. This will only really change a small percentage of the game at this point, but each character will have slightly different stats and things theyre good at. Mostly for flavor; there are two men and two women.Near the beginning of the game, your main character is alone, and fairly quickly collects three friends; in this way, you will very soon have the entire party of four from which you picked your first adventurer.Each characters class will be adventurer or novice early on. They might learn a couple of skills, like scan and flee and stuff, but after level 10 they will immediately stop gaining experience if theyre novices. I dont really know how else to set this next part up, you see, besides forcing everyone to be level x.Anyway, you get to a larger area, and youre tasked with finding four fairly well-known figures in the area: the warrior, the trickster, the naturalist and the spiritualist. Each of them, when you talk to them, will agree to teach one, and only one of your characters the tricks of their trade. Its your call who gets which profession. Eventually youll have one warrior, one trickster, one naturalist and one spiritualist.Somewhere between level 10 and, say, level 30, you will find four different holy items. Each item has an element, and each element can be infused into the soul of one character of your choice. For instance, your trickster can get the fire element, your naturalist the water element, etc.At around level 30, you will either find items, go on a quest or otherwise engage in some sort of task that will allow you to pick one of two fin al classes depending on your original.Warrior will be either knight or barbarian.Trickster will be either assassin or illusionist.Naturalist will be either hunter or wanderer.Spiritualist will be either monk or shaman.Brief outline of each class is below.Barbarian: Vicious warrior that deals tons of damage and doesnt care much about his safety.Knight: Tankish, strong and willing to protect his allies. Some light magic (so almost like a paladin).Assassin: Fast, deadly and sneaky; aims to cripple or blindside foes.Illusionist: Uses slight of hand and a bit of stage magic for varying effects; not as much damage, but plenty of utility.Hunter: Similar to an assassin, but has some group-upkeep skills and tends to be a bit more rugged. A bit less sneaky, a bit more perceptive.Wanderer: Jack-of-all-trades sort of class which can sometimes learn certain enemy skills; not great at anything, but potentially very useful.Monk: Chains barehand physical attacks, uses stances to change his damage type, and can use a little light magic for healing.Shaman: Uses his connection to the spirit world to enhance himself and his party, or to bring woe to the foe. Probably equivalent to illusionist as far as raw force vs. magical prowess goes.As such, the number of class archetypes is rather broad. You might have a fire-shaman, a water-hunter, a wind-knight and an earth-illusionist one game, then totally mix it up the next game. Of course, you could never have both an assassin and an illusionist.I am even toying with the idea of every combination having a specific skill or spell dependent on the magical sphere you chose. For instance, fire-illusionist might learn the spell Eat Fire, while a water-illusionist might learn the skill Shimmering Mirror. I think one skill or spell per class for each magical element would be fair, particularly if it was noteworthy or good. This way, a player who may find one particular playthrough hard may be able to restart and try different combinations. Rather than just plugging away with exactly the same attacks, stats, weaknesses and playstyle, you can mix it up a bit.I want to know what you guys think. Would this be a true coding nightmare? Would this draw you more toward playing the game, or does it sound needlessly complex? Bear in mind, I intend to have a game with dozens of hours of play here, and you arent going to get to level 30 in your first hour of gameplay. You wont be able to easily overlevel in order to just brute-force the final main story boss to death with your regular attacks and no strategy; I intend to make boss fights, especially, a matter of some strategy, forethought and planning. Thats why Im seeking complexity as far as your character build goes. Please let me know how you guys feel about all this. I welcome your feedback. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201272#p201272 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi there,I dont want to force the level. The issue Im coming up against are skills, spells or bonuses earned by level-up. If I could find a way to get around those, Id be happy.I wouldnt want a player to get to novice level 14, then do the bit where they actually pick their main class. Not unless you think it would be easy to have them gain all their bonuses at once as soon as they reclassed. So lets say after level 10, novices stop gaining stats and skills (to make it easy), but lets say the naturalist gains 10HP per level. If a player got to level 14, then became a naturalist, hed gain 40HP instantly. That would mean you could be at a high level as a novice and you wouldnt miss anything.I am not at all fond of level gates. When I was later suggesting the class branching at around level 30, thats just a suggestion; what I might do is, lets say, set the higher classes up so that they begin at level 15 or something (a level youre not at all likely to be at by the time you reach the point where you can earn them) and then just apply their bonuses and skills/spells in a lump when the character in question promotes.I was intending combat to be straight-up turn-based. I dont think I want to go into a grid system, though I might do front and back-row stuff if it comes to that. I definitely thought of combination attacks, both physical and magical, assuming you have people with their turns in a row. Maybe would allow enemies to do the same thing, maybe in certain boss encounters.Yes, this is a ton of detail...and hell, if it took off, it could very well be used as an engine for multiple games. But theres the rub, Im not sure if it would get off the ground. Guess thats why Im here, eh?One thing I promise not to do is tack on endgame content. Paladin of the Sky shows an example of what I want to avoid in this way; it did many things well, but as far as endgame content it had some issues. I loved some of the bosses, but it got really easy to just grind your way to level 100, and a couple of the bosses basically required it. If you end up finishing the main story around level 60 or 65, lets say, then Im not going to give you an endgame dungeon where monsters are only 1.2x as hard and give you 4x the experience just so you can rush to level 100. It gives me more room to tweak, unless I want you to fight the last boss nearer to level 100, in which case I have longer to flesh the story out.Something else to consider: I dont intend for you to level quickly. This game is -definitely going to require some grinding, though mini-quests will also give you experience as well, Im hoping.Oh oh. While Im here, something else I want to include: an alchemy pot.Its a neat little gadget that can take two items and fuse them into a new one, assuming there is some sort of fusi on possible. Two of a particular potion might give a much stronger potion that does the same thing, for instance; a gemstone and a piece of cloth might produce some sort of enchanted cap. Its alchemy, after all. Successful recipes would also give experience, as would bestiary completion, so its not like you have to kill 999 rats to get to level 22. Grind, yes; grind for sixteen hours to get your next level...not so much. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201280#p201280 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help I agree with you in that many of the audio games are quite simplistic. I want to break through the ceiling on that score.Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger (CT especially) are examples of what I consider good turn-based setups, though FFVI is broken beyond belief in some ways.Nevertheless, you do make some valid points. The way you knocked your own point down a little is the same way I would knock it down. Personally, I wanted to have at least a few skills/spells given to you via questing, but figured that the fair majority would be earned by level. If you imagine level as a means of gauging how proficient you are in a specific discipline, then in a loose way you could say Well, veterans of this discipline should know how to x, whatever x happens to be. Youre right though, it does get a little boring...or it can get that way, anyhow.If you look at the community though, youll see a bit of a sad dynamic. They absolutely lapped up Entombed , which was buggy, unbalanced and had almost no story to speak of. Loads of depth and lots of potential, but most of it wasnt used. Then theres Paladin of the Sky, whose magic system consists of pressing a single button in rhythm within a certain number of microseconds of beeps. There are a couple of basic switch puzzles and a fairly long story, but all of the exploring is done in right-angled passages, the game outputs through only synthetic speech (only very minimal voice acting), the story is definitely a bit on the dodgy side and the press-the-button gimmick gets old really, really fast. Pretty great music though. Anyway, most of us collectively went [[wow]]! when that showed up, and I intend if I can to blow that out of the water as far as complexity, tightness in the combat setup and storylines go. It might not be on the same level as, say, a Kingdom Hearts game or World of Warcraft, but if its a strong step forward from what weve seen, it m ight be worthwhile. I dunno.I want to say one more thing, by the way. I hope no one who likes, has worked on or is in any way involved with either Entombed or Paladin of the Sky takes offense to what Ive said. Both games are potentially worth playing in their own right, and represent firsts in their genre for the audio games community. I just want to learn from their example, help fashion something that is its own creature (so to speak), then make it grow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201304#p201304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help Hi there,Some of you may remember me seeking help a few months back regarding an audio RPG I want to create. Im basically useless as a programmer at this point.Now that were in the new year, I figured Id try again.Here are the sort of things I want in my game:1. Turn-based combat, not real-time combat (think Entombed vs. Shadow Rine, for instance).2. A full party system for both enemies and allies. Many enemies may be alone, but I want them to be able to cooperate in specific situations (some boss fights, maybe) unless doing so is too large a pain in the tail.3. Minor map interactivity (which is to say, its not a platformer full of tricky jumps and deathtraps, but some mazelike elements and environmental hazards would be good).4. The ability to check stats, use equipment and items both in and out of battle.5. Screenreader support of some kind, even if its NVDA because apparently NVDA support is pretty easy. I do intend this primarily as a Windows thing at first, and yes, I would like voice acting eventually, but that can come later.So, thats what Im after. If youre working with me, heres what I can provide:1. Expertise. I wont hand you vague ideas and tell you to make the best of them. Im all about playtesting, balance and solidity. I have a statistical system that will work if its implemented properly - and Im quite sure it can be done - plus I have a very good idea of a storyline. Exact dialogue and numbers can be tweaked as we go.2. Willingness to learn. Depending on the way this goes forward, I may want to try and learn programming of my own; this way, I might be able to take some of the load off the person or people helping me and contribute on a more direct level.3. Teamwork. One way or another, Im going to stay involved and current with the project. I wont abandon you, as a co-developer, and I wont throw you under the bus regarding responsibilities or problems.Some things I havent figured out yet:1. Pricing/compensation. I am flexible on this, but I definitely do not expect to keep all the cash myself if I get significant help from people with the code. It might be my storyline ans systems that drive the game, but it will be your programming skills that made it happen, and I wont lose sight of that.2. Programming language/method of creation. I am looking for suggestions on this.3. Complete feature list. I have a ton of ideas, and if I can implement them all well be looking at a thirty-plus hour game, probably. Its going to be big, guys. Multiple towns/cities, a sort of overworld map, enemies that appear only by day or by night plus an internalized day-night system, a bestiary with rewards, four spheres of magic, four classes (archetypes based on monk, assassin, paladin and barbarian), flexible storyline to allow for a few key plot choices, superbosses/extra dungeons, secret skills/spells (some just plain hidden, some found by specific methods that are hidden or hinted at), map hazards (pits, deep water to swim through, darkness that will mess with your ability to see the map well, etc)...the list goes on. I dont know if everything will make it, but Id love to try.So as you can see, right now were long on ideas and short on execution. With your help, that can change.Please write back if youre interested in helping out. At this point, a sort of nuts-and-bolts interface probably needs to be built to test combat, above all else, since combat is going to be the biggest part of the game by and large, and well need to make it work before putting everything else in on top of it. I look forward to hearing from you! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201156#p201156 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help
Re: Full-Fledged Audio RPG: Seeking Help The overarching plot is made, yes...in the sense that I know where the story is going and vaguely how I want to get there. I dont know the ins and outs of every character along the way, and I do intend to have more characters in the game than just your four party members and a villain or three. Heh. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=201209#p201209 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
