Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I've even studied this in psychology and sociology courses, as well as on my own time. Historically, law enforcement tends to attract people with certain characteristics. Among those characteristics are deep respect for the law and for the order it attempts to bring, loyalty, ability to tolerate stress, and bullying. Yup, sadly I'm not kidding. Historically, plenty of cops were once bullies, or the enforcers of bullies, in their school days. Now bbviously, not every bully is a bad person or remains that way, and not every cop was one, not by any means. But you have to be a certain type of person to want to enforce order, and to be willing to use your power very strongly in a crisis. Sometimes this is a good thing, but when you add blind loyalty into the mix, it often leads to simply following orders or protecting fellow officers instead of accepting ownership for your actions or realizing that shit has to change.Again, there are loads of perfectly decent cops out there who are just trying to get by. Mad props to them. But for the ones who do abuse their power, it's high time they were made to answer for it.Law enforcement also historically has extremely broad protection under the law. Where common sense would have a police officer charged with a crime, the law often lets them skate on technicalities.Deathstar, even if we take your article into account for a moment, what do most of George Floyd's arrests tell us? That he's not violent. I mean, yes, robbery using a weapon isn't good, but at no point during the video anyone has provided did Floyd get even remotely violent. Resistant, sure; he flopped on the ground, babbled and begged a lot, and wouldn't listen to what he was being told. But I wouldn't characterize "get your fucking hands on the wheel" as pleading, just for starters. The point is, we aren't talking about a convicted killer here. We aren't talking about someone who is already showing signs of violent psychosis when police arrive. He was treated badly for a great deal of that altercation, and was then needlessly restrained, which led to his death. It's just that simple. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558956/#p558956 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Deathstar, as we said before, it doesn’t matter if he was a good person or a criminal. Because what happened to him is the same either way. It would have happened to him Criminal record or not, because the police couldn’t have known of his past, and even if they did, it Excuses absolutely nothing. Also, the last Arrest he had according to that article was 13 years ago. The article also doesn’t realize that the protests have turned into something bigger. We are not just protesting the death of George Floyd, but also police brutality, systemic racism against minorities, and other things that have remained a certain way for far too long. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558950/#p558950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? So pretty much, what you're saying is that Floyd didn't have to die for robbing people, trading cocane, or burglary with a weapon, but he dies because he used a counterfeit bill? I sense some cognative dissonance here ... But ...anyway, even if most police aren't bad, their training often is. Just watch this video about David Grossman, who is a nationally known police trainer who travels all around the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6YYeah, you heard that right. "As soon as you see an enemy, you kill." "Only a killer can hunt a killer." "If you can't make that decision, you need to find another job." Now of course, you have to take the media slant into account since I only linked one video but you can easily search for other David Grossman videos. There's plenty, because people eat this stuff up because they like the idea of power and violence. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558952/#p558952 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? So pretty much, what you're saying is that Floyd didn't have to die for robbing people, trading cocane, or burglary with a weapon, but he dies because he used a counterfeit bill? I sense some cognative dissonance here ... But ...anyway, even if most police aren't bad, their training often is. Just watch this video about David Grossman, who is a nationally known police trainer who travels all around the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6YYeah, you heard that right. "As soon as you see an enemy, you kill." "Only a killer can hunt a killer." "If you can't make that decision, you need to find another job." Now of course, you have to take the media slant into account since I only linked one video but you can easily search for other David Grossman videos. There's plenty, because people eat this stuff up because they like power and killing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558952/#p558952 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Deathstar, as we said before, it doesn’t matter if he was a good person or a criminal. Because what happened to him is the same either way. It would have happened to him, Criminal record or not. Because the police could not have known of his past, and even if they did, it Excuses absolutely nothing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558950/#p558950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
2020-08-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Its still murder and we still got issues. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558936/#p558936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? So I found a hungarian article, and I'll translate as best as possible. For those who would understand the original one, here is the article:http://szentkoronaradio.com/blog/2020/0 … YsTQ_l6W80So inconnection with this, I'd ask the following. What do all of you think, how many of this could be true?Note: I don't stand on any sides, I just read through this but I don't know the validity of it all.So let me translate.Title: the world defends this criminal, here are all criminal acts of George Floyd.On the 25th may 2020, Floyd payed with fake money in a shop, and after taking several kinds of cocaine he started to drive, when the police managed to stop his car and chased him. The recently leaked recordings prove the fact that the aggression by the police, so told by civilian protectors of Floyd, are even not real, but the police officers literaly begged him to cooperate. The crimes of George Floyd, which the news never say anything about:03.08.1997: they arrested Floyd and gave him a time of 180 days in prison because of trading cocaine.09.25.1998.: they arrested Floyd and gave him a time of 10 months in prison for robbing with weapons (I don't know the proper word for this)09.25.1998.: they gave Floyd a time of 10 days in prison for robbing.08.29.2001.: they arrested Floyd and gave him a time of 15 days in prison for he didn't tell his real identity to a police officer.10.29.2002.: they gave a time of 8 months in prison to him for keeping drugs at himself.01.03.2003.: they gave him a time of 30 days in prison for breaking the law.02.06.2004.: they arrested him again because of trading cocaine, and he got a time of 10 months in prison.12.15.2005.: they gave him a time of 10 months in prison because he kept drugs at himself that he was tend to sell.11.27.2007.: they gave him 5 years in prison for burglary robery committed with a weapon.That's the article. I don't know what could we believe and what not though... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558911/#p558911 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? So I found a hungarian article, and I'll translate as best as possible. For those who would understand the original one, here is the article:http://szentkoronaradio.com/blog/2020/0 … YsTQ_l6W80So inconnection with this, I'd ask the following. What do all of you think, how many of this could be true?Note: I don't stand on any sides, I just read through this but I don't know the validity of it all.So let me translate.Title: the world defends this criminal, here are all criminal acts of George Floyd.On the 25th may 2020, Floyd payed with fake money in a shop, and after taking several kinds of cocaine he started to drive, when the police managed to stop his car and chased him. The recently leaked recordings prove the fact that the aggression by the police, so told by civilian protectors of Floyd, are even not real, but the police officers literaly begged him to cooperate. The crimes of George Floyd, which the news never say anything about:03.08.1997: they arrested Floyd and gave him a time of 180 days in prison because of trading cocaine.09.25.1998.: they arrested Floyd and gave him a time of 10 months in prison for robbing with weapons (I don't know the proper word for this)09.25.1998.: they gave Floyd a time of 10 days in prison for robbing.08.29.2001.: they arrested Floyd and gave him a time of 15 days in prison for he didn't tell his real identity to a police officer.10.29.2002.: they gave a time of 8 months in prison to him for keeping drugs at himself.01.03.2003.: they gave him a time of 30 days in prison for breaking the lew.02.06.2004.: they arrested him again because of trading cocaine, and he got a time of 10 months in prison.12.15.2005.: they gave him a time of 10 months in prison because he kept drugs at himself that he was tend to sell.11.27.2007.: they gave him 5 years in prison for burglary robery committed with a weapon.That's the article. I don't know what could we believe and what not though... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558911/#p558911 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Ah. Still, the fact they are saying floyd has xds, or had, at least from what they are trying to justify... They are trying to justify that xds was why force was used... Force should have never been used in this case, period. It was not warranted or required. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558743/#p558743 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @35 if i understood it correctly, they aren't using XDS as an excuse for the cop, they are saying that george floid was suffering from it and that is the excuse they are wrongly trying to use to justify force. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558741/#p558741 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @35 if i understood it correctly, they aren't using XDS as an excuse for the cop, they are saying that george floid was suffering from it and that is the excuse they are trying to use to justify force. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558741/#p558741 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
2020-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Yeah, I have respect and appreciation for cops in general, and realize that the work they do is hard, and that some of the lines between right and wrong aren't always so clear. This is why I think that it is a stupid decision to kick all of law enforcement out because of a few bad apples. They are there to protect the peace and maintain law and order, so when you remove the entire safeguard, you open the floodgates for all hell to break loose, because no one is there to stop it, and the layman is ill equipped with tools and training to handle the situation efficiently and professionally. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558724/#p558724 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Think about it like this. Police are killing people just because of the color of their skin. Innocent or not running because you fear for your life is reasonable. You're supposed to run from things that can hurt or kill you it's natural. I don't think this topic should exist what the police did was inhumane, racest, and immoral. There's no buts no ands to this at all! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558719/#p558719 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde, I never said I hated or despised cops; I don't. Its just sad how the 10 or 15 percent aka, bad cops, give a bad name to all cops, in a roundabout way. While there are for sure more good cops than bad, and some in between, the actions of this small bad group reflects on all, given how this world works at least, it does.Q URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558715/#p558715 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde, I never said I hated or despised cops; I don't. Its just sad how the 10 or 15 percent aka, bad cops, give a bad name to all cops, in a roundabout way. While there are for sure more good cops than bad, and some in between, the actions of this small bad group reflects on all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558715/#p558715 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde. The fact they are trying to put what happened with Floyd as xds is bullshit at best. I feel like saying, oh, this happened because xds is basicly giving the cop responsible a slap on the wrist pritty much letting him walk away jailfree, since by claiming xds, the argument could be made that, oh, this is a mental disorder, put him in a mental home, or some other similar crap, essentially letting him go scot-free. Xds is a bullshit argument in this case, through and through. The cop would be getting off on a technicality, which is definitely not the first time i has happened. As an example, a woman kills her two children by entering her car into a lake or other body of water, with the reason, that her husband is leaving her because she doesn't want to have anymore kids. She then drives her car into a body of water, drowning her kids in the process and escaping. Based on the above scenario, the fact that she drowned her kids given her husband leaving her, would be calculated, and premeditative murder. However, in court, she claims she did it because of post partum depression, despite all evidence pointing otherwise. That's where i'm heading to with this. In this case, if the court where to rule in her favor, she might be sentenced to a mental health facility, thus getting away scot free. I'm using this as an example to indicate that people can get off scot free using bullshit excuses such as mental illness's. I'm not saying mental illnesses don't exsist, and that there aren't people who don't have them. That does happen, and in some cases, mental illness is true. However someone who knew perfectly well what they where doing, could claim a mental disorder and get off with almost no punishment whatsoever. I feel like this is what they are trying to do this offifer's case. My point beeing, mental illness can or could, be used as an excuse by someone without mental illness to get away with it. @Ty? Damn. I have no words for this. That's racist to the extreme. Just tackle the guy for having a skin condition? And worse, he ends up dying? This is just, beyond fucked up. Let me guess, the cops responsible just did that, then acted like nothing had happened? This is crazy, and disgusting. I get not every officer is like this, but the once that hold this attitude, heck, the people who hold this attitude. Its disgusting and sad.@34 what? Just how can a blind cane possibly be a weapon? It sucks you've been stopped do to cops thinking your cane is a weapon, but at the same time... How stupid do you need to be to see a blind person walking wijh a cane and thinking that its a weapon? Just wow. I mean I suppose one could strike someone in the head with their cane, possibly breaking it in the process; depending on the cane, but apart from, you could't technically kill or hurt someone a lot with a cane... Lol some people are just... Itupid. I mean, its a stick for heck's sake, not a fucking sword or spear lol, but I suppose some cops just see a stick and go nuts because... Who knows why. I dunno if i'm more shocked or what after reading this... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558710/#p558710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde. The fact they are trying to put what happened with Floyd as xds is bullshit at best. I feel like saying, oh, this happened because xds is basicly giving the cop responsible a slap on the wrist pritty much letting him walk away jailfree, since by claiming xds, the argument could be made that, oh, this is a mental disorder, put him in a mental home, or some other similar crap, essentially letting him go scot-free. Xds is a bullshit argument in this case, through and through. The cop would be getting off on a technicality, which is definitely not the first time i has happened. As an example, a woman kills her two children by entering her car into a lake or other body of water, with the reason, that her husband is leaving her because she doesn't want to have anymore kids. She then drives her car into a body of water, drowning her kids in the process and escaping. Based on the above scenario, the fact that she drowned her kids given her husband leaving her, would be calculated, and premeditative murder. However, in court, she claims she did it because of post partum depression, despite all evidence pointing otherwise. That's where i'm heading to with this. In this case, if the court where to rule in her favor, she might be sentenced to a mental health facility, thus getting away scot free. I'm using this as an example to indicate that people can get off scot free using bullshit excuses such as mental illness's. I'm not saying mental illnesses don't exsist, and that there aren't people who don't have them. That does happen, and in some cases, mental illness is true. However someone who knew perfectly well what they where doing, could claim a mental disorder and get off with almost no punishment whatsoever. I feel like this is what they are trying to do this offifer's case. My point beeing, mental illness can or could, be used as an excuse by someone without mental illness to get away with it. @Ty? Damn. I have no words for this. That's racist to the extreme. Just tackle the guy for having a skin condition? And worse, he ends up dying? This is just, beyond fucked up. Let me guess, the cops responsible just did that, then acted like nothing had happened? This is crazy, and disgusting. I get not every officer is like this, but the once that hold this attitude, heck, the people who hold this attitude. Its disgusting and sad.@34 what? Just how can a blind cane possibly be a weapon? It sucks you've been stopped do to cops thinking your cane is a weapon, but at the same time... How stupid do you need to be to see a blind person walking wijh a cane and thinking that its a weapon? Just wow. I mean I suppose one could strike someone in the head with their cane, possibly breaking it in the process; depending on the cane, but apart from, you could't technically kill or hurt someone a lot with a cane... Lol some people are just... Itupid. I mean, its a stick for heck's sake, not a fucking sword or spear lol. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558710/#p558710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Lest we go into total cop-hating mode here, I want to point out that the fair majority of cops are not bad at all. Many of them are in over their heads and do not know what to do when shit like this happens. It's drilled into them to protect their fellow officers, and a lot of the time that makes sense. But this results in things being spun badly and even covered up when they shouldn't be. Then you have some police officers out there who really do an excellent job, who are disgusted by these sorts of actions and have found a way to do what they can to help, or to fight back.Obviously I can't give numbers here, but I'd bet you that 5-15% of cops are so-called "bad cops", another 5-15% are very good cops, and the group in between are largely the product of a broken system, spotty training, and worse. Two of the cops during George Floyd's arrest were very new to the force, and acted somewhat badly (though perhaps not as badly as Chauvin). I'd put them in the middle category, because officers like that can often learn from their mistakes. And honest mistakes do happen. Being an officer of the law is by no means an easy job, even for the good ones. You often find yourself in really tense situations, hoping you can go home to your family at the end of your shift and sorta doubting you're going to get out of this next scrape with your skin intact. Of course, not all altercations are this way, and many police officers draw a lot of paperwork, desk duty and dispatch, but it's still a stressful job.This doesn't justify what happened to George Floyd, or any other person who has been the subject of police brutality. I just wanted to point out that sometimes, folks caught in those situations are swept along by forces larger than they are, especially if they're new and overwhelmed and still can't assert themselves. I don't want anyone in the Floyd case to escape culpability, but I do hope the rookies are treated a bit more lightly than Chauvin is. Chauvin killed Floyd. The others may have made the situation worse, but one of them tried to recognize where things were going wrong and set them right, and I think that counts for something. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558713/#p558713 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Lest we go into total cop-hating mode here, I want to point out that the fair majority of cops are not bad at all. Many of them are in over their heads and do not know what to do when shit like this happens. It's drilled into them to protect their fellow officers, and a lot of the time that makes sense. But this results in things being spun badly and even covered up when they shouldn't be. Then you have some police officers out there who really do an excellent job, who are disgusted by these sorts of actions and have found a way to do what they can to help, or to fight back.Obviously I can't give numbers here, but I'd bet you that 5-15% of cops are so-called "bad cops", another 5-15% are very good cops, and the group in between are largely the product of a broken system, spotty training, and worse. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558713/#p558713 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde. The fact they are trying to put what happened with Floyd as xds is bullshit at best. I feel like saying, oh, this happened because xds is basicly giving the cop responsible a slap on the wrist pritty much letting him walk away jailfree, since by claiming xds, the argument could be made that, oh, this is a mental disorder, put him in a mental home, or some other similar crap, essentially letting him go scot-free. Xds is a bullshit argument in this case, through and through. The cop would be getting off on a technicality, which is definitely not the first time i has happened. As an example, a woman kills her two children by entering her car into a lake or other body of water, with the reason, that her husband is leaving her because she doesn't want to have anymore kids. She then drives her car into a body of water, drowning her kids in the process and escaping. Based on the above scenario, the fact that she drowned her kids given her husband leaving her, would be calculated, and premeditative murder. However, in court, she claims she did it because of post partum depression, despite all evidence pointing otherwise. That's where i'm heading to with this. In this case, if the court where to rule in her favor, she might be sentenced to a mental health facility, thus getting away scot free. I'm using this as an example to indicate that people can get off scot free using bullshit excuses such as mental illness's. I'm not saying mental illnesses don't exsist, and that there aren't people who don't have them. That does happen, and in some cases, mental illness is true. However someone who knew perfectly well what they where doing, could claim a mental disorder and get off with almost no punishment whatsoever. I feel like this is what they are trying to do this offifer's case. My point beeing, mental illness can or could, be used as an excuse by someone without mental illness to get away with it. @Ty? Damn. I have no words for this. That's racist to the extreme. Just tackle the guy for having a skin condition? And worse, he ends up dying? This is just, beyond fucked up. Let me guess, the cops responsible just did that, then acted like nothing had happened? This is crazy, and disgusting. I get not every officer is like this, but the once that hold this attitude, heck, the people who hold this attitude. Its disgusting and sad. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558710/#p558710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde. The fact they are trying to put what happened with Floyd as xds is bullshit at best. I feel like saying, oh, this happened because xds is basicly giving the cop responsible a slap on the wrist pritty much letting him walk away jailfree, since by claiming xds, the argument could be made that, oh, this is a mental disorder, put him in a mental home, or some other similar crap, essentially letting him go scot-free. Xds is a bullshit argument in this case, through and through.@Ty? Damn. I have no words for this. That's racist to the extreme. Just tackle the guy for having a skin condition? And worse, he ends up dying? This is just, beyond fucked up. Let me guess, the cops responsible just did that, then acted like nothing had happened? This is crazy, and disgusting. I get not every officer is like this, but the once that hold this attitude, heck, the people who hold this attitude. Its disgusting and sad. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558710/#p558710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @jayde. The fact they are trying to put what happened with Floyd as xds is bullshit at best. I feel like saying, oh, this happened because xds is basicly giving the cop responsible a slap on the wrist pritty much letting him walk away jailfree, since by claiming xds, the argument could be made that, oh, this is a mental disorder, put him in a mental home, or some other similar crap, essentially letting him go scot-free. Xds is a bullshit argument in this case, through and through.@Ty? Damn. I have no words for this. That's racist to the extreme. Just tackle the guy for having a skin condition? This is crazy, and disgusting. I get not every officer is like this, but the once that hold this attitude, heck, the people who hold this attitude. Its disgusting and sad. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558710/#p558710 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @14 scary thing is even in the UK i have been stopped a number of times by the police because they thought my cane was a weapon. on 2 ocasions i had a bright light shone at me and was ordered to drop what i was carrying and put my hands on my head. the first time i assumed they were talking to somebody else and very nearly got taisered for it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558692/#p558692 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @32, if that's the case then yes, that was an unlawful arrest (which really doesn't surprise me, damn corruption and graft). It is illegal to detain someone without reading them their Miranda rights and telling them why they are being detained. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558677/#p558677 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? He had oxygen, at least enough to be able to gasp and call out for awhile, and his cause of death was cardiac, but the cardiac incident would likely not have happened if he hadn't had his airway severely restricted.Ethin, ExDS is what the cops thought Floyd was experiencing, or so they claim. The defense is probably going to suggest that they were only hard on him at the end because of the risk he supposedly posed to himself or to others around him. i.e., yes, it was absolutely a wrongful death, but it wasn't murder. A good defense lawyer will spin this as a left vs. right issue, an overreaction, will say that Chauvin's life has been ruined by the overzealous prosecution, and will probably try to get a jury to acquit him outright, if not severely limit any sentence he might receive.And the thing is, ExDS sufferers can indeed pose risks to themselves or others. But those cops didn't approach Floyd's vehicle politely, and they sure as hell couldn't know he was dealing with ExDS early in their interaction while they were swearing at him.You know what I find suspicious in this whole thing? The audio is a bit blurry in some places, confused by a lot of vocal chatter, but the one thing I didn't hear was police telling Floyd what the actual problem was. I'm pretty sure that if you want to cuff someone, you have to read them their rights, or at the very least explain to them clearly, and get confirmation, that they know why they're being detained. I don't recall this happening, so I think the very act of trying to arrest Floyd the way they did might have been unlawful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558671/#p558671 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? the police seem to be corrupt. Or actually, are corrupt. For one, the walking into an apartment and shooting the person in it would have deserved like far more than that. that's breaking in and murder. Doesn't matter if you're a police officer. psh. And screw that shitty excuse. Do you see people taking a knife and stabbing someone with it when they get angry at someone?second, I agree that the force used in the George Floyd incident was completely unnecessary. Even though I'm still not even 1 bit of an expert with law, That is another case of murder. Besides, they should know that 3 to 5 minutes with no oxygen is death, so that police officer might have killed him on purpose. Which might be known but meh. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558670/#p558670 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
2020-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? You wouldn't believe the number of times cops pulled over my vrother because he was supposedly in a stolen car, and while I was with him too, and this happened years before this incident. And its not just for a couple minutes either, it's a good half an hour to an hour of questioning and paperwork and drivers license to prove your innocence. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558663/#p558663 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @27, if someone wants to join cops shouldn't they not be allowed if they have dangerous psychological disorders like XDS? That seems kinda backwards to me... It might just be me though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558662/#p558662 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Fairly related, in my state, we had a mass shooter at a theater down the road from me, who was white. The police walked him out in handcuffs. He served jail time, but that was all. However, there was this black man also walking down the street, same police department, wearing a ski mask and waving his arms, which yes, can look fishy. The police approached him, and asked what he was doing. He told them, calmly, I have a skin condition and I get cold, and I'm waving my arms because I'm dancing to music in my headphones. The cops fucking tackled him, and injected him with something that i can't quite remember ,and over dosed him on it. While he was dying too he was telling them, I respect you guys, I love the police, let me live, etc etc. He, yes, did try to walk away which might not have been the smartest move but no one deserves to fucking die for that. Here's the article if anyone wants it. [Here is it]. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558660/#p558660 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? It was based on license plates, but even then, I believe that's all registered. It should've been sorted out long before handcuffing happened.The argument being trotted out by those defending Chauvin et al is ExDS. Excited delirium syndrome. One of the cops even mentions this, but only after Chauvin has him pinned down. Basically people who have ExDS can be remarkably pain-tolerant, violent, psychotic and straight-up dangerous. It's a form of psychosis, and it can often be deadly for the person who was going through it. They're going to try and justify their treatment of Floyd, including the neck restraint, based on ExDS, and their belief that that's what they were dealing with. But that doesn't really explain the way the video started. It doesn't really mesh well with how he was treated for several minutes beforehand either.You'll get no argument that Floyd was passively resisting and making something of a nuisance of himself. Were I a cop, I'm sure I would have been frustrated, maybe even frustrated enough to want to raise my voice. But I'd hope that in doing my job, I'd also remember that, regardless of what Floyd did or was doing, I have to respond to the situation in a way which is best for everyone. This includes trying to get Floyd calm, trying to reason with him if possible instead of just repeating yourself and talking over him. This includes restraining him or using force if he refuses to comply, but this could easily have been done without neck restraint and asphyxiation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558651/#p558651 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @25, what the fuck? That's just, wrong. I mean, if the family where traveling in a car, and the stolen vehicle was a motorcycle... What arrest them? It makes no sence at all. And its wrong aresting someone just because. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558645/#p558645 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I'm with most here. Even if he was resisting passively, that was in no way an excuse for the officer to keep a knee on his neck for 8 minutes... If the situation would've been different say, by Floyd pulling out gun or endangering others and not stopping, the officers would've been justified to at least put a kneeon his back; but on his neck? No. But that's not how said situation went; what the officer did was completely unwarranted. There was no reason to do what he did. My opinion on this is still as it was before, this was a racist crime among other things, and the actions of the officer were way out of hand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558639/#p558639 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Huh what? how the hek?Hearing that just kind of pist me off lolJayde wrote:Heard a funny story (or perhaps not so funny if it happened to you) yesterday. Apparently, a black family (involving children) was stopped by police, handcuffed and put on the ground because their vehicle was believed to be stolen. This, despite the fact that police knew the stolen vehicle was a motorcycle, and the family was travelling in an SUV. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558641/#p558641 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I'm most here. Even if he was resisting passively, that was in no way an excuse for the officer to keep a knee on his neck for 8 minutes... If the situation would've been different say, by Floyd pulling out gun or endangering others and not stopping, the officers would've been justified to at least put a kneeon his back; but on his neck? No. But that's not how said situation went; what the officer did was completely unwarranted. There was no reason to do what he did. I'm My opinion on this is still as it was before, this was a rasist crime among other things, and the actions of the officer were wa? out of hand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558639/#p558639 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @21It's only bad when you combine them, IMO. Even for programmers making absurd salaries, look at what we make vs. the company making millions of dollars a year off the work of 2 or 3 people. Unions in the U.S. have actually effectively been gutted over the last while. But you just can't beat those combinatorial effects, sometimes.@22I would like to be proven wrong but I think @20 isn't saying no one talks about when this happens to white people. I think they're starting down the usual "but white people are a persecuted minority too" track. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558637/#p558637 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @18-19, that's... extremely disturbing. Both the fact that unions have such powers but also that incident that you heard about, Jayde. And 20, I can't seem to validate this accurately (this table is a bit difficult to interpret (that always happens with tables within tables), and posts like this one are majorly misleading, but depend on the table I linked to above), but I suspect that it happens far more often to black people (white-on-black) than vice-versa. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558626/#p558626 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @18-19, that's... extremely disturbing. Both the fact that unions have such powers but also that incident that you heard about, Jayde. And 20, I can't seem to validate this accurately (this table is a bit difficult to interpret (that always happens with tables within tables), and posts like this one are major misleading, but depend on the table I linked to above. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558626/#p558626 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Oh, it happens, Deathstar, and that's not okay either. The same way that women sometimes abuse men, instead of the other way round.But the reason that police brutality against blacks is what's being talked about is because that's what we're seeing far more often. The reason that the abuse of women is talked about as much as it is is because statistically, seventy-odd percent of adult abuse cases happen to women. This doesn't mean that it's meaningless when it happens to the other side; perish the thought. It just means that it's not equal, and trying to make it equal is racial or gender blindness, as opposed to racial or gender consciousness. A bad thing, because it pretends that all systemic problems like this are statistically comparable when they aren't.I'll boil it down for you.Say you're listening to a black person tell a story about how they got harassed by cops. Now assume that you're white, and had a bad experience with cops as well (hey, it does happen, you're right about that). If you step into that discussion and say, "Yeah but this happened to me", you're trying to steal the narrative. The polite thing to do would be to listen, to ask appropriate questions if you want. You will have all kinds of chances to tell the story of how you were mistreated by cops at another place and time; you don't need to co-opt someone else's story to be heard. The only reason to tell your story in that moment would be if you want to show solidarity; if you're doing it to one-up the black person, or because you're feeling shut out, then you're doing it for the wrong reason. This is why, for instance, you'll hear of one woman telling a story about domestic abuse, followed by a whole outpouring of other women sharing similar stories. That's solidarity, for the most part, not one-upmanship. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558629/#p558629 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @18-19, that's... extremely disturbing. Both the fact that unions have such powers but also that incident that you heard about, Jayde. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558626/#p558626 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Of course it's horrible, a police officer should never ever do such. But what happens when black people kill white ones just because why not? Because they think they aren't equal but even better than white ones? I guess white ones never protested and never will do so, because most of them would be killed as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558621/#p558621 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Ethin, I took this in the manner in which it seems you intended it. While I don't think your angle changes anything, I also was not and am not accusing you of racism or anything like that. You basically tossed it out here to see what we thought, and that's fine.Heard a funny story (or perhaps not so funny if it happened to you) yesterday. Apparently, a black family (involving children) was stopped by police, handcuffed and put on the ground because their vehicle was believed to be stolen. This, despite the fact that police knew the stolen vehicle was a motorcycle, and the family was travelling in an SUV. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558620/#p558620 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? @17I have the dubious privilege of literally living upstairs from it, as has been established, so I don't have a single source since I've been following the ongoing thing for months.U.S. unions aren't as powerful as they really need to be to do their jobs, but they're powerful enough to control who can get fired and why, and have a lot of ability to stir up huge legal shitstorms.U.S. cops are employees. Unions are something employees can do. Q.E.D. cops can unionize and, in addition to getting the I'm-a-cop protections, can also get the I'm-an-employee protections of a union, i.e. collective bargaining, making contracts with their employers, the whole 9 yards. So yeah, impossible to fire or to sue because cop. Protected by union because employee.And apparently in Seattle part of that is that there's some agreement in place that the last to get hired has to be the first to get laid off, among other things. SO now it's turned into a boo-hoo if you actually defund us we'll be laying off all the young minorities who we just hired, take that you evil anti-police people. And far as I can tell this is actually something they legally have to do. Could they opt not to do it and let the city have the city's way and be accountable or whatever? Yeah, sure. But they're not going to. I'm just glad it's relatively benign here, as to what the protections are letting them do at the moment. But that's how it actually works, yes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558618/#p558618 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Thanks for all your responses -- I just got done reading all of them. Keep in mind that I did not in post 1 indicate that the article I found (which was on my timeline, so I just happened to stumble upon it) in any way indicate that the officer's actions were suddenly justified, nor does it in any way change the severity of the matter. I completely agree with all of the points you guys have made in this topic, but I brought the article here because I wanted to here what others had to say about it. I do agree that the police have little oversight, though I didn't know about the union thing (why is that even there, anyway?). So, yes, I started this topic with good intents and without the intent of starting a flamewar or a massive argument, and I definitely didn't mean to imply that my views on the matter had changed -- because I still agree that there is most likely a racial angle to all of this, and that our police force has some major problems, and that the murder is still that -- murder -- irrespective of camera footage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558606/#p558606 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Didn’t the cop who shot the guy in his apartment only get about 10 years in prison? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558599/#p558599 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Okay, thumbs up to Mayana for some fantastic research, and to Camlorn for some first hand experience. I'll also say as a comparative outsider it seems to me, there is something seriously wrong with the US police, and given some of the really crazy experience my lady's best friend and her husband (who are black), have had, there is definitely a pretty major problem with law enforcement and bias over there, which needs looking into, since ultimately as Mayana said, it doesn't matter if someone was or was not intoxicated or on drugs, but kneeling on the neck of a handcuffed prostrate suspect past the point that they stopped breathing and well beyond, is not just excessive force, it's like that bit in the Simpsons when Homer tries to get Bart's ball off their house roof by shooting it with his gun! It's positively insane! And given the amount of incidents of excessive force used against black people by the police in America, I am not surprised people see a racial angle to this, (I mean, police who shoot someone for carrying an ice cream cone because they believe it's a gun?).So, protests are fully understandable.That being said, it's all too easy for a few malcontents to turn peaceful protests into something else (something again my lady's friends confirm), and for the response to any form of protests to be equally ridiculously overthetop. If any decent reforms come out of this that would be a good thing, but at this point the hole thing seems to just be one unholy mess, indeed my lady has remarked she's really glad not! to be in the states right now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558598/#p558598 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Let's assume every single point is true, for the sake of argument. As many have already pointed out, none of that leads to the conclusion of the necessity for a cop putting his knee on the neck of a man already in handcuffs, ignoring what are essentially pleas for air. It's straight up fucking murder, end of story.Additionally, let me tackle the "never said anything racist" part. Ever watch Cops? If not, go find some on Youtube. You'll see all kinds of drunk ass white idiots arguing with cops, and, surprisingly, none of them seem to end up dead. The fact is, an unarmed dude, who was already restrained, got killed for supposedly passing a fake bill. If that's not a problem for you and you need to find articles that give excuses for it like the one above, you might want to take a good hard look at exactly what in the hell's wrong with your life.Oh yeah, and lest I get accused of starting a flamewar or being digitally uncivilized or whatever, let me add this. When you come in and start going on about the narrative the media has spoon fed us and it leading to riots, you're being confrontational right from jumpstreet. Don't be surprised if you get some of that back.Let me expand on racism a little more, because you seem to think it takes calling somebody the N-word to be racist. Remember the off-duty cop who walked into an apartment she thought was hers and shot and killed the black guy who owned it? You had all kinds of articles going, well what kind of day did she have, she was stressed, stuff like that. In other words, they were looking for things to excuse her actions. Just like the above article, we're supposed to understand that there were extenuating circumstances that made the actions OK. Then we're not talking about the murder victims, we're talking about the poor poor victims who did the murdering.That there's called racism, in case you weren't aware of that fact. I'd like to end by saying trust me when I tell you, this is me being civilized and restrained. If I weren't, there would be a lot more cursing, for one thing. There probably should be, come to that. I also think this whole stance is pretty shortsighted, pun intended. We know there are cases of mentally ill people being killed by cops, for instance. So suppose I'm out walking around, and a cop says something to me. But I have no idea they're a cop or anything, or maybe that they're even talking to me, because I can't see them. Could that endanger me? My wife was born in Kenya. Her dad's Luhya, hence black, and her mom's white. Do I have to worry about her safety, if she goes out? I shouldn't have to think about shit like that, because I should be able to trust the police. But now I have to, because they're doing completely fucked up shit like shooting people who are running away in the back, shooting journalists in the face with so-called "non-lethal ammunition" and blinding them, and so on. So now I have to, sadly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558590/#p558590 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Canlorn, I actually agree with you, for the most part. I think this would be equally horrible regardless of who it happened to.I think the bit where you said that negative interactions with police are more common with minorities is the part that resonates with me, and it's the reason that this is going to be labelled as racialized. I can't read Derek Chauvin's mind, so I don't know what he was actually thinking, but the fact that there is uneven representation tells me that it is a systemic problem.However, you're quite right when you say that the greater systemic problem is with law enforcement itself. There is little oversight, and far too much force being thrown around. If you address that problem, then everybody wins, minorities included. I'm not looking for a solution where only black people benefit; I'm looking for a system where everybody wins. I do think that the uneven representation matters though. I think that is part of the problem, and needs to be dismantled and scrutinized right along with the rest of it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558564/#p558564 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I do actually believe that this could happen to a white person, is the thing. I haven't researched if it has. But what people don't get is that the U.S. police as a whole are fundamentally terrible and have a license to do just about anything, and you can't really fight them on it. So this whole thing becomes about racism instead. Yeah, racism is important and exists, but I think that if a police officer did this to a white man it would just quietly go away and be under reported.It's definitely true that racial minorities have more negative encounters with police and it's definitely true that this is more likely to happen to a black man, but somehow everyone stops at this being the problem. It's not the problem. The problem is we have police departments with tanks, qualified immunity shielding them, police unions fighting on their behalf. A big part of why Seattle can't reform the police is that turns out that the Seattle police have a strong union, who are even able to fight the government. No one seems to get how absurd that is, that the people who are supposed to be served by the police have zero control over the police, and the people who are supposed to be in control of the police apparently don't have that much control, either. we aren't a police state yet, but doesn't a bunch of people with guns who are legally shielded from anything you might do to them and who can basically tell the local government haha no you can't control us because of our unions sound like a good first step down that road? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558562/#p558562 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I do actually believe that this could happen to a white person, is the thing. I haven't researched if it has. But what people don't get is that the U.S. police as a whole are fundamentally terrible and have a license to do just about anything, and you can't really fight them on it. So this whole thing becomes about racism instead. Yeah, racism is important and exists, but I think that if a police officer did this to a white man it would just quietly go away and be under reported.It's definitely true that racial minorities have more negative encounters with police and it's definitely true that this is more likely to happen to a black man, but somehow everyone stops at this being the problem. It's not the problem. The problem is we have police departments with tanks, qualified immunity shielding them, police unions fighting on their behalf. A big part of why Seattle can't reform the police is that turns out that the Seattle police have a strong union, who are even able to fight the government. No one seems to get how absurd that is, that the people who are supposed to be served by the police have zero control over the police, and the people who are supposed to be in control of the police apparently don't have that much control, either. we aren't a police state yet, but doesn't a bunch of people with guns who are legally shielded from anything you might do to them and who can basically tell the local government haha no you can't control us because of your unions sound like a good first step down that road? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558562/#p558562 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Mayana, you are awesome. That is all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558553/#p558553 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Please note: As you can probably guess by the fact that I am just quoting and linking to other sources, I am not an expert on media research, much less this particular issue. I tried to find several agreeing sources, as well as mention different views when I stumbled upon them. However, I was only willing to spend a limited amount of time on this, because I am lazy.So in short, this is not perfect, and you should still do your own research. With that out of the way ...A bit about Daily WireSince I am not familiar with Daily Wire, let's first do a tiny bit of research about it.Allsides reports Daily Wire has a right bias. Unsurprising, considering this article. But, of course, no news site is unbiased.https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-wireMedia Bias/Fact Check agrees, also putting it under the Right Bias category. As far as its fact checking goes, it is under Mixed - Not always Credible or Reliable. Indeed, it is rated as borderline questionable.https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/Now, let's research each of the 4 claims you've listed, shall we?1. George Floyd was not fully cooperative and clearly intoxicated.1.1. CooperationWhen searching, the first fact checker article I stumbled upon is "The death of George Floyd: What you need to know" by PolitiFact. That site has a very good record when it comes to fact checking political news and claims in the USA, so let's see what it says about this.At first, it seems to agree with you:The owner of Cup Foods later told CNN the issue was over a counterfeit $20 bill.>But then:As protests mounted, so did the evidence that Floyd had not resisted arrest, as the police report said.>told CNN he did not think Floyd was resisting arrest. The owner of Cup Foods said that surveillance video from his store does not show Floyd resisting arrest.Other publicly available videos — including one video captured by a bystander from their car and another pulled from the surveillance tape of a nearby Dragon Wok restaurant — show Floyd stepping out of his car with no apparent resistance.>Source: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 … need-know/CNN agrees:In the video, two officers approach Floyd and two passengers in a vehicle parked outside the restaurant, located across the street from a convenience store where the alleged fraud occurred. Officers appear to handcuff Floyd, though the exchange is partially hidden behind the vehicle. Floyd appears to fall before an officer lifts him up and leads him onto the sidewalk, where Floyd sits down against a wall.Eventually, the officer helps Floyd to his feet before both officers escort Floyd across the street to their SUV. Floyd appears to fall again before a second police vehicle blocks the view of the surveillance camera. At no point in the video does Floyd appear to struggle against the officers.>Williams said he heard Floyd telling officers that he couldn't breathe. When Williams asked police what was happening, he said he was told Floyd was "resisting arrest.""I said, 'officer, he's not resisting arrest, you have your knee on him and you have handcuffs on him, he's detained at this moment,'" Williams said.Rashad West -- who owns the Dragon Wok restaurant released the video along with another man, Jared Brewington -- who also disputed claims that Floyd resisted arrest."Did not see any resistance, not at all," West told CNN's Don Lemon on Wednesday night of the surveillance video.Brewington, whose business preceded West's at the same location, agreed that he did not see Floyd resisting arrest.>Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/v … index.html1.2. IntoxicationNew York Times confirms George Floyd had trace amounts of drugs in his system. Not enough, however, to make him a danger to other people, and certainly not enough to kill him:Nor would marijuana use have stoked violence. Its primary effects are relaxation, sedation, euphoria and increased hunger. In some cases, it’s true, very high THC concentrations can cause mild paranoia, and visual and auditory distortions, but even these effects are rare and usually seen only in marijuana novices.He also had 11 nanograms of fentanyl in his blood. That number, in and of itself, doesn’t tell us much. Immediately after a person dies, the blood concentration of fentanyl increases significantly, so knowing only the post-mortem amount does not tell us about Mr. Floyd’s level of intoxication before his death.What’s more, the same amount of fentanyl that produces euphoria in a tolerant user can result in an overdose in a newer user. That’s why, along with the toxicology report, we have to look at Mr. Floyd’s behavior shortly before his death.Videos show Mr. Floyd behaving rationally and appropriately, considering the circumstances. When officers asked him to get out of his car, he did not seem drowsy or lethargic, which is how people high on opioids
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Please note: As you can probably guess by the fact that I am just quoting and linking to other sources, I am not an expert on media research, much less this particular issue. I tried to find several agreeing sources, as well as mention different views when I stumbled upon them. However, I was only willing to spend a limited amount of time on this, because I am lazy.So in short, this is not perfect, and you should still do your own research. With that out of the way ...A bit about Daily WireSince I am not familiar with Daily Wire, let's first do a tiny bit of research about it.Allsides reports Daily Wire has a right bias. Unsurprising, considering this article. But, of course, no news site is unbiased.https://www.allsides.com/news-source/daily-wireMedia Bias/Fact Check agrees, also putting it under the Right Bias category. As far as its fact checking goes, it is under Mixed - Not always Credible or Reliable. Indeed, it is rated as borderline questionable.https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/Now, let's research each of the 4 claims you've listed, shall we?1. George Floyd was not fully cooperative and clearly intoxicated.1.1. CooperationWhen searching, the first fact checker article I stumbled upon is "The death of George Floyd: What you need to know" by PolitiFact. That site has a very good record when it comes to fact checking political news and claims in the USA, so let's see what it says about this.At first, it seems to agree with you:The owner of Cup Foods later told CNN the issue was over a counterfeit $20 bill.>But then:As protests mounted, so did the evidence that Floyd had not resisted arrest, as the police report said.>told CNN he did not think Floyd was resisting arrest. The owner of Cup Foods said that surveillance video from his store does not show Floyd resisting arrest.Other publicly available videos — including one video captured by a bystander from their car and another pulled from the surveillance tape of a nearby Dragon Wok restaurant — show Floyd stepping out of his car with no apparent resistance.>Source: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 … need-know/CNN agrees:In the video, two officers approach Floyd and two passengers in a vehicle parked outside the restaurant, located across the street from a convenience store where the alleged fraud occurred. Officers appear to handcuff Floyd, though the exchange is partially hidden behind the vehicle. Floyd appears to fall before an officer lifts him up and leads him onto the sidewalk, where Floyd sits down against a wall.Eventually, the officer helps Floyd to his feet before both officers escort Floyd across the street to their SUV. Floyd appears to fall again before a second police vehicle blocks the view of the surveillance camera. At no point in the video does Floyd appear to struggle against the officers.>Williams said he heard Floyd telling officers that he couldn't breathe. When Williams asked police what was happening, he said he was told Floyd was "resisting arrest.""I said, 'officer, he's not resisting arrest, you have your knee on him and you have handcuffs on him, he's detained at this moment,'" Williams said.Rashad West -- who owns the Dragon Wok restaurant released the video along with another man, Jared Brewington -- who also disputed claims that Floyd resisted arrest."Did not see any resistance, not at all," West told CNN's Don Lemon on Wednesday night of the surveillance video.Brewington, whose business preceded West's at the same location, agreed that he did not see Floyd resisting arrest.>Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/v … index.html1.2. IntoxicationNew York Times confirms George Floyd had trace amounts of drugs in his system. Not enough, however, to make him a danger to other people, and certainly not enough to kill him:Nor would marijuana use have stoked violence. Its primary effects are relaxation, sedation, euphoria and increased hunger. In some cases, it’s true, very high THC concentrations can cause mild paranoia, and visual and auditory distortions, but even these effects are rare and usually seen only in marijuana novices.He also had 11 nanograms of fentanyl in his blood. That number, in and of itself, doesn’t tell us much. Immediately after a person dies, the blood concentration of fentanyl increases significantly, so knowing only the post-mortem amount does not tell us about Mr. Floyd’s level of intoxication before his death.What’s more, the same amount of fentanyl that produces euphoria in a tolerant user can result in an overdose in a newer user. That’s why, along with the toxicology report, we have to look at Mr. Floyd’s behavior shortly before his death.Videos show Mr. Floyd behaving rationally and appropriately, considering the circumstances. When officers asked him to get out of his car, he did not seem drowsy or lethargic, which is how people high on opioids
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Also, not to double post, but to make my authenticity clear: my front door is 10 feet from Cal Anderson and the East Precinct is the opposite coroner of my block. My apartment was on the protestor side of the barricades. I was looking up "Can tear gas get to the 6th floor" at one point, and my dad was showing my building to people because it was in some of the pictures and videos from the news. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558523/#p558523 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? The protests weren't about George Floyd anyway. George Floyd was just the last straw. It was coming no matter what. It just needed a trigger. People have been protesting for a long, long time and have basically been ignored, and our responses to such things is to turn neighborhoods into warzones rather than address it (source: my floor literally shaking from the flashbangs). That's what it's really about. But people need a symbol, you don't go protest those sorts of things directly, it takes something along the lines of a martyr to transition from "I care about this" to "I care about this enough to do something".So yeah, the situation is more complicated. But because lawmakers acknowledging that means acknowledging that they screwed up, obviously George Floyd himself was more complicated and if that's the case then the protestors were protesting for nothing. Far as I can tell the democrats are doing this too, though on the right it's more obvious. And as part of that, places like my neighborhood get turned into evil protestor postapocalypse hell to justify the police response, and anyone 10 miles away from here thinks that my life is in danger and doesn't realize that the most dangerous thing going on for most of it was poetry readings. And then when cities like Seattle try to address it, paint them as left-leaning radicals doing dangerous experiments without the support of the majority.I'd be more sympathetic to these arguments if I didn't live at ground zero of Seattle. I'd be more sympathetic to these arguments if the reason I wasn't going outside was wondering if the police were going to start something, and if the reason it had got shut down was the shootings. To that last point, it was very telling that it was shut down within a day of protestors showing up at the mayor's home. Mind you the whole mayor's home thing was another sort of stupid, that she thinks that being a mayor is compatible with wanting to keep your home address secret, but a local sort of stupid that's not in line with this discussion except that I'm sure the news turned it into Seattle the protestor hellscape of doom, again.But new evidence now doesn't matter, if "the situation was really complicated" evidence existed and was actually convincing then it would have been released months ago. And if the police wanted a discussion they could have started one. Instead you get tear gas at the drop of a hat and trump sending troops to Portland and sparking off a whole thing there for no reason. I think that's really, really telling, as is me having to explain to my friends who don't live here that even the most liberal media decided to blow it out of proportion and I'm perfectly safe if the police would just stay inside and stop escalating everything. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558522/#p558522 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I am a bit ashamed to admit that I've said and done racist things in my time. Not too many, I hope, but yeah, I've done it. Probably the most common of these - and this one I still have to watch for - is to ask people with accents where they're from. I am genuinely curious, and many who I've asked don't seem to mind, but a couple have given resistance because they probably think I'm going to start saying awkward/dumb/insensitive things. I cringe just thinking about it.I do believe that we have come a good distance toward getting rid of racism, but we're not even close to being done with it yet. This makes me angry. It makes me angrier still when folks try to cover it up or deracialize it. Please don't do that with this crime. Even if it wasn't intended to be racial, it happened to a black man, and the killer was white. And this happens enough in the big picture that it's not just a one-off thing. It's fucking systemic. And it needs to stop. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558520/#p558520 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
2020-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Yeah, cops were still wrong for what they did, and as a minority, I can definitely say that racism is still as real as it ever was. Covid19 pandemic=evil Asians. Vietnam war=evil vietnamese. World War II=evil Japanese. And throughout it all the African American and Mexican American and everyone else who isn't white are still seen by some as lesser beings. It wasn't as boldly publicized as it was a few decades ago, but if you knew where to look, you can still find the beast of racism running rampid. I'm one of those people who like to believe that we've made progress in this regards, but I'm also a realist. So when I hear people's anecdotes avout how they were mistreated or disadvantaged or heard how people said awkward things regarding their race to them to their face, and compare it with my own experiences, like how my rehab councilor expected me to have a thick vietnamese accent because of my name and kept praising my perfect English, or how I and many other Asian dudes always got rejected by white girls in high school, i just can't turn a blind eye to the issue we have. I also won't say that the majorities are the only ones guulty of this either. I heard my parents say some pretty damned racist things growing up, though there's much less of that now, probably from them learning how to coexist over the years.I did go and read that article in full, and my feelings remain the same from beginning to end. We got racial injustice issues that need addressing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558513/#p558513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I've now read several more pieces about this, and have watched some of the body cam footage. Question, BTW: why is this body-cam footage being leaked in early August, when 1. the crime happened in late May and 2. the first attempt to leak body-cam footage was ridiculously edited? You'd think that if the police had exculpatory evidence like this at the time of the murder, they'd have been all too eager to show it.Anyway, on with the show, as it were.Claim: Floyd was resistant during the arrest process.Relevancy: minimalExplanation: Resisting arrest isn't good. But while Floyd may have been resistant, he was not violent. It does not appear that he was trying to hurt anyone, and does not even appear that he was trying to escape. it simply seems as if he was dragging his feet, so to speak, resisting more passively whilst in an agitated state of mind. The reason for escalating to the poinw ehre Chauvin had a knee on Floyd's neck for nearly eight minutes is still entirely unclear.Claim: Floyd was claiming that he couldn't breathe long before he was pinned.Relevancy: minimalExplanation: The only way this matters at all is that Floyd's continued pleas while pinned may have been easier to ignore if he'd already been making them before being thus restrained. This does not change the fact that pinning someone with a knee to the neck is not approved police procedure. Floyd, you'll remember, was handcuffed by this point, and was not going to be hurting anyone. There were simply far better ways to keep him under control. There were four officers at the scene, and while not all of them contributed directly to Floyd's death, none of them made a serious effort to stop the murder while it was occurring.Claim: Floyd was intoxicated with a combination of fentanyl and meth, and was Covid-19 positive.Relevancy: minimalExplanation: George Floyd did not die because he was stoned. He did not die because he was positive for Covid-19. He died because Derek Chauvin placed his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly eight minutes until the man stopped breathing. Intoxication would have explained Floyd's confusion, agitation and resistance, but toxicology reports suggest that he did not die from the intoxicants in his system.Claim: The crime wasn't racially motivated.Relevancy: noneExplanation: It doesn't take much digging to discover the disproportionate amount of harm done to black people by mostly white police. Folks were never trying to claim that Chauvin set out to kill Floyd because he was black; they're trying to demonstrate that George Floyd's skin colour is not surprising, given what happened. For instance, why did four officers respond to a man who allegedly tried to use a phony twenty with their guns drawn? Isn't that kind of overkill? Why did officers first cuff Floyd (which is reasonable, of course), then put him face-down and pin him by the neck? I don't believe this regularly happens to white people. If it hadn't been George Floyd, it would have been someone else. Any attempt to discredit Floyd or prop up the police who killed him (or were accessories to it) is done in bad faith. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558512/#p558512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Two things here. One, it Doesn’t matter what kind of person George Floyd was. Some recent police violence incidents have been dismissed by some as, he was no angel.” But that doesn’t change the fact that a police officer killed someone. Because the only time when I see that as justifiable is when it is truly in self-defense. And clearely, The George Floyd incident was not, at the end. And two, The daily wire is a more conservative source. this doesn’t invalidate the story, but it does show the biases from which the article may have been written. From there about page. “ The Daily Wire is one of America’s fastest-growing conservative media companies and counter-cultural outlets for news, opinion, and entertainment.” URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558510/#p558510 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? Floyd was definitely intoxicated during the incident. As for how well he did or did not comply with officers, I'm sorry to say that this is mostly irrelevant.There is video footage of a police officer maintaining pressure on George Floyd's neck, and another officer on his back, for nearly eight minutes. This footage also demonstrates that Floyd was pleading that he couldn't breathe. This sort of restraint runs counter to virtually all police protocol that I have read.In other words, even if Floyd was intoxicated, and even if he was violent, there was no need to pin him face-down with a knee on his neck for eight minutes until he asphyxiated. There is really no getting around it.As for the racism angle, I won't say that the crime was racially motivated, but you just don't hear of this happening too often against white people, and the overarching point - that blacks are routinely mistreated by police - is still just as true as it ever was.So yeah. Even if Floyd was intoxicated and resistant - the second of which is questionable, BTW - he did not deserve to die like that, and your info does not change the reality of the situation for me. Not at all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558506/#p558506 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Re: Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? There was new footage released two days ago, that I saw. It is obvious from that footage that.A:: He was fully cooperative with the officers, and B: he complied with all their orders. This just reenforced the stuff happening. I would recommend you find and watch the old and new footage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558496/#p558496 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I have no idea whether this information is actually accurate, but I found this on my FB timeline and thought I'd share to get peoples' opinion, hence the words "Some possible" in the title of this topic. I don't aim to start any digital riots, or flamewars, or anything like that, so if your going to start that in here then please withhold what your going to post because I'd like this topic to be civilized. The article is here, and the video footage, if it is authentic, complicates the issue that we were all spoon-fed by the media and that caused riots up and down the country. In sum, the article points out four distinct facts, if it is indeed authentic:George Floyd was not fully cooperative and clearly intoxicated.The officers were calm and reasonable for most of the interaction.George Floyd claimed that he couldn’t breathe and was going to die well before he had a knee on his neck.The officers never did or said a single thing that any reasonable person could construe as racist.This in no way excuses the offers of what they did -- as the article does indeed point out -- but it complicates things. What are your guys' thoughts? Normally I wouldn't post things on my FB timeline on here -- this is a forum and not Facebook -- but I thought I might share this given the particular event it covers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558462/#p558462 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident?
Some possible extra info about the George Floyd incident? I have no idea whether this information is actually accurate, but I found this on my FB timeline and thought I'd share to get peoples' opinion, hence the words "Some possible" in the title of this topic. I don't aim to start any digital riots, or flamewars, or anything like that, so if your going to start that in here then please withhold what your going to post because I'd like this topic to be civilized. The article is here, and the video footage, if it is authentic, complicates the issue that we were all spoon-fed by the media and that caused riots up and down the country.In sum, the article points out tfour distinct facts, if it is indeed authentic:George Floyd was not fully cooperative and clearly intoxicated.The officers were calm and reasonable for most of the interaction.George Floyd claimed that he couldn’t breathe and was going to die well before he had a knee on his neck.The officers never did or said a single thing that any reasonable person could construe as racist.What are your guys' thoughts? Normally I wouldn't post things on my FB timeline on here -- this is a forum and not Facebook -- but I thought I might share this given the particular event it covers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558462/#p558462 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
