can we talk about sep 11th now? :-)
--
willyhoops
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928
willyhoops;201774 Wrote:
can we talk about sep 11th now? :-)
i am so so so curious... how many people here (aside from pale blue)
think sep 11th was a us / israeli etc plot?
You really are a troll!
Conspiracy theories are rather childish - they can explain anything,
which makes them both
krochat;201427 Wrote:
So, what exactly is piracy vs fair use, especially for material you've
already purchased in a different format?
Case 1: Stuff you've purchased once.
I own 2000 LPs, mostly purchased new. Obviously, I can't play them on
my Squeezebox. Can I
1) Rip the LP to a
Pale Blue Ego;201990 Wrote:
It would be very interesting to see the content industry address these
questions. They have a history of waffling when it comes to Fair Use.
At one point (I think it was in testimony to Congress) they said of
course it is legal to rip a CD and listen to it on
We should also note that they sued Diamond Rio, the first company to
offer an mp3 player for sale in the U.S., and went after Apple for
their Rip, Mix, Burn ad campaign which encouraged people to exercise
their fair use rights with CDs they had purchased.
--
Pale Blue Ego
johann;201281 Wrote:
Where's the conflict between owning and using a SB and listening to
(what I assume you mean) ultra commercial music or whatever you mean?
I wonder what more artists you include there
I actually wasn't pointing out the artist but the soundquality of those
servies;201412 Wrote:
I actually wasn't pointing out the artist but the soundquality of those
productions. A transistor radio sounds the same as most of that crap.
Misunderstanding (one of the many, but alas my native language isn't
English).
Mind you not all people get a SB because how
Steve Jobs sees the writing on the wall. That's why he is pushing for
DRM free music from the big guys.
Itunes music sales and ipod sales will go even higher with no DRM and
that is why Jobs is pushing for it.
EMI finally understands this now. The other majors will come around in
time,
So, what exactly is piracy vs fair use, especially for material you've
already purchased in a different format?
Case 1: Stuff you've purchased once.
I own 2000 LPs, mostly purchased new. Obviously, I can't play them on
my Squeezebox. Can I
1) Rip the LP to a digital recording?
2) Check out
krochat wrote:
So, what exactly is piracy vs fair use, especially for material you've
already purchased in a different format?
IANAL, and I can't define fair use.
But it is a well documented fact that much of the profits of the music
industry in the late 80s and 90s was selling the same old
krochat;201427 Wrote:
So, what exactly is piracy vs fair use, especially for material you've
already purchased in a different format?
I'm not a lawyer either, but my understanding is that the legality of
these things is rather unclear. The law simply isn't specific enough
to answer many of
I think it's a very good question, and it's one of the things the music
industry should give us an answer on ... before telling us why they
need DRM.
--
Patrick Dixon
www.at-tunes.co.uk
Patrick Dixon's Profile:
9/11 absolutely was an inside job, no possible doubt
I am curious - Is this a joke or do you really believe it?
--
willyhoops
willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563
View this thread:
About the honesty of customers:
http://www.freakonomics.com/article2.php
This is an interesting account of a bagel salesman and his belief that
honest people will stay honest without a bagel protection mechanism.
--
smst
thats a cool article...
By measuring the money collected against the bagels taken, he could
tell, down to the penny, just how honest his customers were...
As it happens, his accidental study provides a window onto a subject
that has long stymied academics: white-collar crime
A
That's an interesting, optimistic and fun article. Freakonomics indeed.
But I think the problem is people can convince themselves that
something is not stealing when it is in order to justify their desires.
Rarely do you hear criminals saying I did it because I was greedy...
they usually come up
Well now that we've brought 9/11 into this thread I guess its time to
break this out...
+---+
|Filename: even kittens.jpg |
|Download:
discocarp;201250 Wrote:
Well now that we've brought 9/11 into this thread I guess its time to
break this out...
Although interestingly, no Nazis yet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
Adam
--
adamslim
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others
willyhoops;201256 Wrote:
That's very interesting and sounds very strange. It's certainly not the
way book publishng works which i have experience of.
You clearly have no idea of how the industry works. Very few artists
recoup - generally only very big artists. I have worked with small
willyhoops;201247 Wrote:
many here have now developed a copyright should be abolished and the
record companies deserve it viewpoint.
The two are not connected. I do NOT believe that copyright should be
abolished, but I DO think that the big record companies deserve it.
It strikes me that you
Ah so these bum deals have generated a lot of publicity, thrown a lot of
confusion on the topic, and given the record companies a bad name. Still
maybe it's getting carried away to junk the whole industry on the basis
of that.
--
willyhoops
willyhoops;201261 Wrote:
Ah so these bum deals have generated a lot of publicity, thrown a lot of
confusion on the topic, and given the record companies a bad name. Still
maybe it's getting carried away to junk the whole industry on the basis
of that.
It's not a matter of being a bum deal.
Promotion costs *should* not be recoupable.
Out-of-pocket expenses for promotional purposes, incurred by the artist
*should* be reimbursed by the record company.
The record company *may* provide promotional tour support
Video costs are *usually* recoupable by 50%. The remaining 50% is
5. EVERY SINGLE PENNY that the record company has spent on behalf of
the artist (which includes all of their advance, all of the marketing,
and all of the associated corporate hospitality - such as lunches for
the executives in swanky restaurants) is deducted from their royalties.
That's
willyhoops Wrote:
That's very interesting and sounds very strange. It's certainly not the
way book publishng works which i have experience of.
So you really don't know what you're talking about and now you admit
it.
but it sounded so strange i looked into more professional web sites
servies;201269 Wrote:
I wonder why you have a squeezebox at all as probably you're only
listening to Justing Timberlake or Britney Spears or J'Lo.
Where's the conflict between owning and using a SB and listening to
(what I assume you mean) ultra commercial music or whatever you mean?
I
willyhoops;201198 Wrote:
I am curious - Is this a joke or do you really believe it?
Absolutely. I won't debate the topic, only suggest that if you're
interested to research it yourself and draw your own conclusion.
--
Pale Blue Ego
Pale Blue Ego;201284 Wrote:
I won't debate the topic...
Damn. Looks like I brought out my kittens jpg too early!
--
discocarp
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View this thread:
discocarp;201296 Wrote:
Damn. Looks like I brought out my kittens jpg too early!
LOL this has been an entertaining thread, despite the OP being a level
80 troll. I occasionally get rather attached to my ideas, but in order
to argue effectively, one always needs to recognise that others may
willyhoops,
Here is a better article that explains what goes on when recording an
album written by someone who was actually signed to a major.
http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/print.html
Also, for anybody thinking that non-drm'd music will not sell b/c
everybody will just
...foundation that collects the tax on blank CD's... CD's for
photography...It's not easy to think of something taxable that is
associated only with listening to music
Oh god what papers do you read! There is a famous and obvious solution
to this... Microsoft pays a % of the sale price on
such a thing is very possible despite all the knuckle headed denials.
Please: if you want to carry on a discussion, stop throwing insults at
us and actually address some of the points that have been made. Just
because many of us disagree with you doesn't mean we're thick.
willyhoops;200923
mark-e-mark
I would like to see more discussion around the trust relationships and
their security enforcement mechanisms...
If you mean you would like to learn about DRM and hacking etc then i
can give this quick tutorial:
Today we can use encryption to completely protect data from any
willyhoops;200923 Wrote:
There is a famous and obvious solution to this... Microsoft pays a % of
the sale price on every Zune to the record companies to compensate for
piracy. Apple was asked to do the same but refused.
Hmmm, indirectly you will pay for that taxation. and what if I would
use
from 10 euro cd artist gets maybe some 20 cents if they're lucky
So you think that 2% of the CD sale price does to the artist if they
are luyky. Common sense should tell you that is junk. I was guessing
arount 10% same as a book but more for very established artists.
A quick check at a harvard
willyhoops;200946 Wrote:
So you think that 2% of the CD sale price does to the artist if they are
lucky.
I think you've mis-interpreted, the point being made is only a fraction
of the CD cost actually goes to the artist - NOT that servies thinks the
artist should only get 2%.
--
Rangdo
willyhoops;200923 Wrote:
The obvious way to distrubute the money is based on survey of pirate
content although this is hard to measure for real small artists... Eg
iPod survey information shows today that under 5% of the music on an
iPod is purchased through the iTunes store.
You seem to be
willyhoops;200946 Wrote:
So you think that 2% of the CD sale price does to the artist if they are
lucky. Common sense should tell you that this is junk. No one can make a
living from that. I was guessing around 10% (same as a book) or 15%+ for
very established artists. Even 10% sounds low
I saw the article by Janis Ian. I can't see the bit where he got to 2%
but it looks like a complete junk article. For example:
There is zero evidence that material available for free online
downloading is financially harming anyone. In fact, most of the hard
evidence is to the contrary.
Even
Well, one small example for you - take it how you will.
I recently saw an album available for download in lossless format -
obviously not an official source ;) This is how I like to try out new
stuff, after all if I want a new car I can test drive it first, I can
try on new clothes prior to
Thats a nice story and its keeping sales alive at the moment. But when
the consumer looses all interest in physical CDs, why would he download
a free lossless CD and then like it and then buy exactly the same thing
again. RIAA reports sales by value including both CDs and Digital
downaloads as
willyhoops;200953 Wrote:
I saw the article by Janis Ian. I can't see the bit where he got to 2%
but it looks like a complete junk article. For example:
Even the copyright abolish fans here are surley not arging that file
sharing has had no financial hard on anyone.
There is no
willyhoops;200958 Wrote:
Thats a nice story and its keeping sales alive at the moment. But when
the consumer looses all interest in physical CDs, why would he download
a free lossless CD and then like it and then buy exactly the same thing
again.
Well as I already had the download, there
ah i checked on wiki... she is an uneducated lesbian folk singer and
outspoken critic of the RIAA. well she must be smart then...
i am looking to invest but nothing yet...
--
willyhoops
willyhoops's Profile:
The way you describe her, tells us enough about you...
And you still never countered any arguments given here against DRM...
--
servies
servies's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9496
View this
Starve the troll, save the world
--
tomjtx
tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34928
I will be here tonight dressed in a smoking jacket so feel free to
contine the debate in person if you live in London...
www.whatwhatclub.co.uk
--
willyhoops
willyhoops's Profile:
willyhoops;200964 Wrote:
ah i checked on wiki... she is an uneducated lesbian folk singer and
outspoken critic of the RIAA who has herself sold a lot of records.
well she must be smart then...
share price of majors has been beaten down and now there in interest in
them. maybe you have
totoro;200983 Wrote:
Her sexuality is relevant to the discussion in what way? So far, most of
what I've seen from you in this debate is ad hominems, blanket
assertions, and strawmen. But this particular ad hominem is just too
much.
You are a boor, a jackass, and an idiot.
You forgot
well i knew it would annoy a little... but come on - have you ever had
an intelligent rational debate with a folk singing lesbian? :-)
willy the 'troll'
--
willyhoops
willyhoops's Profile:
tomjtx;200975 Wrote:
Starve the troll, save the world
Ah Heroes, there should be another to download soon. Who cares about
music copyright when TV shows are whizzing around the ether within
minutes of ending? It's an outrage...
--
adamslim
Those are my principles, and if you don't like
willyhoops;200958 Wrote:
Hence the move away from selling music to making money off live tv and
events being tested by the major lables. This is disasterous for
smaller artists.
Um.
Record Labels don't make moneey off live shows and events.
That is how artists make money: and how they have
Here is the troll...
[image: http://www.whatwhatclub.co.uk/images/14.jpg]
:-)
--
willyhoops
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View this thread:
ah here is willyhoops the troll...
+---+
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|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2783|
willyhoops;200958 Wrote:
Thats a nice story and its keeping sales alive at the moment. But when
the consumer looses all interest in physical CDs, why would he download
a free lossless CD and then like it and then buy exactly the same thing
again. RIAA reports sales by value including both
provide some evidence for it!
not to mention the logical arguments...
HAVE YOU READ THE TWO ARTICLES I ALREADY POSTED HERE?
Not from a folk singing lesbian... actually from a major national uk
newspaper! oh yea, and if you are not from the uk... the newspaper is
the best here after the Financial
Yes, but what about a picture of Sillyhoops?
--
tomjtx
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how about this?
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|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2784|
Very good likeness
--
tomjtx
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___
willyhoops;201036 Wrote:
Provide some evidence for it???!!!
Not to mention the logical arguments... HAVE YOU READ THE TWO ARTICLES
I ALREADY POSTED HERE?
Not from a folk singing lesbian... actually from a major national uk
newspaper! oh yea, and if you are not from the uk... the newspaper
willyhoops;201036 Wrote:
actually from a major national uk newspaper!
Oh well, if it's in a UK newspaper it must be true then, the papers
never tell porkies do they ;)
--
Rangdo
GRONDA GRONDA
SB 2 [Stereovox XV2] Benchmark DAC1 [NVA Soundpipe] Cyrus Pre Xvs
[NVA Soundpipe] Cyrus
willyhoops wrote:
but come on - have you ever had an intelligent rational debate with a
folk singing lesbian? :-)
You know Willy, I had you down as many things; learning that you're a
female folkie surprises me. ;)
R.
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willyhoops;201044 Wrote:
how about this?
It's nice, but if you are the artist don't you want to add a copyright
blurb, so that I don't steal it for my Web site/clip art cd project?
--
Skunk
Skunk's Profile:
willyhoops;200953 Wrote:
There is no quality control on the internet. If you search around you
will find that September the 11th was a US / Israeli plot as well. And
Dianna was murdered by the MI6. And that they never landed on the
moon... Do you believe these things as well?
9/11
willyhoops;200953 Wrote:
I saw the article by Janis Ian. I can't see the bit where he got to 2%
but it looks like a complete junk article. For example:
Even the copyright abolish fans here are surley not arging that file
sharing has had no financial hard on anyone.
There is no
Mark Lanctot;200587 Wrote:
But there already is such a thing: a DSD decoding chip, necessary for
SACD playback. That sure proved popular...
Actually DSD isn't encryption, it's just a different way of using
digital bits to encode an analogue waveform. The AK4396 DAC used in the
Transporter
opaqueice wrote:
It would be interesting to study the economics of music performance and
composition in the era before copyright, or before recorded music.
Mozart had no trouble making a living.
Actually, Mozart struggled to make a living and died poor - he was
buried in a pauper's grave.
Robin Bowes;200696 Wrote:
Actually, Mozart struggled to make a living and died poor - he was
buried in a pauper's grave.
Because he was profligate, not because he had trouble making a living.
I've been to an apartment in Vienna he lived in - he had lots of money,
at least for a while.
Just ran into this in a Canadian Press article:
For their part, at least two of the recording companies will ask Jobs
to sell a wider variety of content in digital bundles of songs, videos
and other multimedia, according to two recording company executives
familiar with their companies' plans.
opaqueice;200710 Wrote:
Because he was profligate, not because he had trouble making a living.
I've been to an apartment in Vienna he lived in - he had lots of money,
at least for a while. His patrons were grand dukes etc. Anyway the
point is there was a thriving music scene without
I was hoping you'd chime in on this - I'm very interested in your
opinion.
tomjtx;200728 Wrote:
Composers did make money from their scores as did the publishers of
those scores. They are original work product and the composer has a
right to earn revenue.
The printed disemination of
opaqueice;200735 Wrote:
there's been music around for a long while :-).
True - but home recording playback equipment hasn't. Copying the
score for a symphony doesn't remove the need for an orchestra to play
it!
--
AndyC_772
opaqueice;200735 Wrote:
For example, a tax of some sort (on blank CDs for example) which went to
a fund to support artists and public art/music programs? A system of
artists-in-residence at the federal, state, county, city, university
level? More public funding for local orchestras and
opaqueice;200735 Wrote:
For example, a tax of some sort (on blank CDs for example) which went to
a fund to support artists and public art/music programs?
We have such a wonderful system in Canada. It's turned into another
cash grab, but one of the original justifications for it was to
krochat;199061 Wrote:
And, despite what the article says, the album is already available for
download at http://www.thecrimea.net/download/tabid/62/Default.aspx
OT: I like this idea, I just wished I liked the music more. :-(
--
Mark Lanctot
i thought i would never write again on the subject here, but this post
just annoyed me too much:
[qoute]Some system of copyright protection is essential ... [but] The
balance is hard to call, but I would fear that use of DRM (which
strongly favours the copyright holder) would push the balance
Kudos to them for expressing their concerns and feelings on the subject
so well. It is ironic though, that this message was relayed to us via a
CD that was given a way for free! Hmmm
They are absolutely nuts though if they think they're going to make any
kind of money selling CD's through
the album was not free, they were just sending a free promo one to a
journalist for review. no doubt they expect to sell cds and downloads
when apple let them, that hardly invalidates the complaint against
piracy (file sharing) and the importance of making money from selling
music to the small
willyhoops;200768 Wrote:
this post just annoyed me too much
Oh good. :)
--
adamslim
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others
http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/
'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top
artists'
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and have become more
educated about the issues involved in DRM as a result. It's terrific
that there are immensely qualified posters who are willing to engage
willyhoops in this discussion. It is a compliment to this community
that willyhoops is
opaqueice;200735 Wrote:
I know some that do... but perhaps more would if there was something to
replace it? For example, a tax of some sort (on blank CDs for example)
which went to a fund to support artists and public art/music programs?
A system of artists-in-residence at the federal,
IMHO there's a much bigger problem with the idea of a tax on CDs or
other media. One of my hobbies is photography, and I use blank CDs and
DVDs to store digital photos - original material in which I hold the
copyright.
So, the idea of paying a tax to the music industry for the storage
space I
Yep - another really well thought out piece of rubbish legislation.
I'm surprised no-one has suggested a blanket tax on paper and
pencils...
Analogue Rights Management anyone?
--
Phil Leigh
Phil Leigh's Profile:
Phil Leigh;200839 Wrote:
Yep - another really well thought out piece of rubbish legislation.
I'm surprised no-one has suggested a blanket tax on paper and
pencils...
I think this is going a bit fast. It's not easy to think of something
taxable that is associated only with listening to
OK I will chime in again.
I strongly support fair use and I think current DRM restricts this and
ultimately hurts sales more than helps them.
That said, I would not copy someone's CD and keep it.
I have copied CDs to see if I like them and want to keep them. If I
want to keep them I buy them.
tomjtx wrote:
Said writer/musician is preparing to cook angel hair pasta with fresh
gulf shrimp sauteed in virgin olive oil and garlic to be added to a
homemade tomatoe basil sauce.
You shouldn't use virgin olive oil to cook with - it burns to easily.
Better using something like groundnut
Robin Bowes;200871 Wrote:
tomjtx wrote:
Said writer/musician is preparing to cook angel hair pasta with
fresh
gulf shrimp sauteed in virgin olive oil and garlic to be added to a
homemade tomatoe basil sauce.
You shouldn't use virgin olive oil to cook with - it burns to easily.
The above was written after 2 glasses of a good cabernet while
listening to Ojos De Brujo: Techari
I would think the Techari CD calls for a fine agave mescal.
Great CD by the way!
.
--
haunyack
Transporter - BK Reference 200.2 - Vandersteen 3A Signature.
Fridgidare - Mirror Pond pale ale -
haunyack;200873 Wrote:
The above was written after 2 glasses of a good cabernet while
listening to Ojos De Brujo: Techari
I would think the Techari CD calls for a fine agave mescal.
Great CD by the way!
.
Only if you eat the worm :-)
--
tomjtx
Robin Bowes;200871 Wrote:
You shouldn't use virgin olive oil to cook with - it burns to easily.
Better using something like groundnut oil.
You must be British :-).
--
opaqueice
opaqueice's Profile:
i am sorry not to have responded for a while. I decided to take the
discussion to a more enlightened crowd. the debate here helped to
sharpen my arguments so many thanks.
It comes down to
(1) Is DRM possible?
Yes cost effective DRM using harware Secure Cryptoprocessor /
Decompression / DAC
willyhoops;200406 Wrote:
I decided to take the discussion to a more enlightened crowd.
Couldn't you have stayed there?
--
adamslim
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others
http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/
'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of
willyhoops;200406 Wrote:
i am sorry not to have responded for a while. I decided to take the
discussion to a more enlightened crowd.
Am I right in assuming that by 'more enlightened', you actually mean
'pro-DRM'? (Never mind, don't bother answering that).
Nevertheless, you are now at least
Andy_C,
I am with you point by point.
Let us never forget, that most of the DRM-related discussion is skewed.
Record companies defend the rights of their artists (their artists'
right to a stream of income).
But in most cases, these streams of income have been signed away by the
artists
I decided to take the discussion to a more enlightened crowd.
Who decided them to be 'more enlightened'. I probably see them as
idiots. The way you're reasoning around here suggests me that you
probably wouldn't even know people knowledgeable about the subject
enough to be called 'enlightened'.
Tags are completely unimportant to me. When I buy a CD, the music goes
straight onto my NAS, then the disc itself goes into the CD-changer in
my car, and the box (including the sleeve notes, cover art and so on)
goes on the shelf. I rarely, if ever, even look at them.
Care to try and address any
well you are still all mad but let me ask one thing... do you really all
think tags are unimportant? when i buy an opera it comes with a booklet
of all the words, a description of the recording, a few pics etc. one
of the sad things to me of digital music is the limited tags. not being
able to
ok ancy_c you are not so mad but servies clearly is.
still, i am interested in feedback from others about tags.
i think seeing album art and correct consistent tags and song words
scrolling will make a huge difference to the market for digital music.
Just the small step of seeing album art on
I wouldn't ever assume you are going to get full and complete tags off a
record company. You often don't get the full details on sleae notes as
it is. I forget which album it was, but Radiohead had something like
Lyrics reporduced with permision of the record compnay, even though we
wrote them.
funkstar... suppose for fun the record companies did a real great job of
the tags so even you were impressed ... how much would you value that?
andy_c doesn't care how good they are. suppose the record company
helped radiohead write the tags themselves and put whatever they liked
in there for
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